“Though there is no systematic evidence that the college admissions system actually deters candidates from applying, feedback from pupils at schools with limited Oxford connections – most often in the non-selective maintained sector – suggests that they find our admissions arrangements confusing and opaque, particularly when making a choice of college.”
Sir Tim insisted Oxford’s admissions system was working well – “few universities in the world can boast such a rigorous selection process” – but his report admitted that many people inside and outside the university felt it still fell short of ensuring the very best who applied to Oxford were admitted, irrespective of college choice.
I have a dream that my future children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by their social class or income, but by the content of their character.
I will have to dig up the demographics for England to determine if they define class and color the same way we do here in America. Also, I will do the same to see if they have some of the educational system failings that we have here. Just what to be sure we are not applying the same cultural standard for different cultures.
“Lower social classes,†low-income†and the like is code for color.
Clayton is correct LaShawn.
Britian is a very class conscience country.
The ability to move from the lower class to the upper classes is very restricted. From what I could tell, it was actually built into the system, including educational system.
They had (still have?) board examines which determine how far in education you go and the quality of education. By that I mean, whether you are prepared to be a “worker” or something “higher”.
Translation: students who don’t have the scores but happen to have the skin will nevertheless get in.
I’m sorry but I don’t see how you could have come to that conclusion by reading that article. The only thing I can tell they did was centralize the admission process. There is NO mention that academic standards of the school are effected.
You know, comments like yours are one of the many reasons I thought about disabling commenting, particularly because I have to waste my time responding to what I consider foolish responses. But I am compelled.
I base my opinions on more than a single article, BH. Understanding history and current events, along with using a good dose of common sense, is how most people come to conclusions about the world and make predictions about the future based on what has happened before. It would be awfully shallow and stupid of anyone to shape an opinion and/or worldview based on a single news article.
I am still in the process of gathering the data. But there seems to be a small problem. The British classify people of color vastly different then we do here in America. So can you clarify which group you are referring to that is seeking skin based preferences.
Understanding history and current events, along with using a good dose of common sense, is how most people come to conclusions about the world and make predictions about the future based on what has happened before. It would be awfully shallow and stupid of anyone to shape an opinion and/or worldview based on a single news article.
I was not talking about a world view I was talking about A conclusion about A single event for which you have only ONE set of facts that have NO evidence to support the conclusion you made. Speaking of that world view. Your world view if colored by AMERICAN socio-politics. Do you give room for the possibility that things MIGHT be a little different in the UK? That your worldview is ill equipped to inform you about a part of the world that you don’t know as much about?
Lastly is so FOOLISH for me to question what is apparent to me as a COMPLETELY unfounded conclusion?
LaShawn, I worked in the UK for 4 months about 12 years ago. While there, I stayed on the grounds of a castle. I stayed in a barn that was converted to be part of a B&B.
I had a long discussion with “lord and lady of the house” concerning things “English”, including education. That is where I got the basis for my comments.
Based on that, I think your interpretation is incorrect.
Sounds more about class than color
“Though there is no systematic evidence that the college admissions system actually deters candidates from applying, feedback from pupils at schools with limited Oxford connections – most often in the non-selective maintained sector – suggests that they find our admissions arrangements confusing and opaque, particularly when making a choice of college.”
Sir Tim insisted Oxford’s admissions system was working well – “few universities in the world can boast such a rigorous selection process” – but his report admitted that many people inside and outside the university felt it still fell short of ensuring the very best who applied to Oxford were admitted, irrespective of college choice.
Comment by Clayton Bigsby — 12.15.05 @ 2:46 pm
“Lower social classes,” low-income” and the like is code for color.
Comment by La Shawn — 12.15.05 @ 2:51 pm
I have a dream that my future children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by their social class or income, but by the content of their character.
Comment by NeoFascist? — 12.15.05 @ 3:26 pm
I will have to dig up the demographics for England to determine if they define class and color the same way we do here in America. Also, I will do the same to see if they have some of the educational system failings that we have here. Just what to be sure we are not applying the same cultural standard for different cultures.
Comment by Clayton Bigsby — 12.15.05 @ 3:28 pm
There are quite a few poor white folks in England..
Comment by lukeNC — 12.15.05 @ 3:39 pm
Dig all you want, Clayton. If I were a betting woman, I’d wager that your research turns up exactly what I proffered in the post.
Luke, there are quite a few poor white folks in America, too.
Comment by La Shawn — 12.15.05 @ 3:40 pm
Let the parties begin!
Comment by Mark La Roi — 12.15.05 @ 7:19 pm
Sounds more about class than color
“Lower social classes,†low-income†and the like is code for color.
Clayton is correct LaShawn.
Britian is a very class conscience country.
The ability to move from the lower class to the upper classes is very restricted. From what I could tell, it was actually built into the system, including educational system.
They had (still have?) board examines which determine how far in education you go and the quality of education. By that I mean, whether you are prepared to be a “worker” or something “higher”.
Comment by DarkStar — 12.15.05 @ 9:32 pm
Translation: students who don’t have the scores but happen to have the skin will nevertheless get in.
I’m sorry but I don’t see how you could have come to that conclusion by reading that article. The only thing I can tell they did was centralize the admission process. There is NO mention that academic standards of the school are effected.
Comment by BH — 12.16.05 @ 10:33 am
You know, comments like yours are one of the many reasons I thought about disabling commenting, particularly because I have to waste my time responding to what I consider foolish responses. But I am compelled.
I base my opinions on more than a single article, BH. Understanding history and current events, along with using a good dose of common sense, is how most people come to conclusions about the world and make predictions about the future based on what has happened before. It would be awfully shallow and stupid of anyone to shape an opinion and/or worldview based on a single news article.
Comment by La Shawn — 12.16.05 @ 10:39 am
LaShawn
I am still in the process of gathering the data. But there seems to be a small problem. The British classify people of color vastly different then we do here in America. So can you clarify which group you are referring to that is seeking skin based preferences.
Comment by Clayton Bigsby — 12.16.05 @ 11:51 am
Understanding history and current events, along with using a good dose of common sense, is how most people come to conclusions about the world and make predictions about the future based on what has happened before. It would be awfully shallow and stupid of anyone to shape an opinion and/or worldview based on a single news article.
I was not talking about a world view I was talking about A conclusion about A single event for which you have only ONE set of facts that have NO evidence to support the conclusion you made. Speaking of that world view. Your world view if colored by AMERICAN socio-politics. Do you give room for the possibility that things MIGHT be a little different in the UK? That your worldview is ill equipped to inform you about a part of the world that you don’t know as much about?
Lastly is so FOOLISH for me to question what is apparent to me as a COMPLETELY unfounded conclusion?
Comment by BH — 12.16.05 @ 12:10 pm
Well, here is a brief part of what i have discovered. It has very little to do with skin color and a ton to do with class.
http://www.akme.btinternet.co.uk/Heath01.html
Comment by Clayton Bigsby — 12.16.05 @ 4:05 pm
Understanding history and current events,
LaShawn, I worked in the UK for 4 months about 12 years ago. While there, I stayed on the grounds of a castle. I stayed in a barn that was converted to be part of a B&B.
I had a long discussion with “lord and lady of the house” concerning things “English”, including education. That is where I got the basis for my comments.
Based on that, I think your interpretation is incorrect.
Comment by DarkStar — 12.16.05 @ 9:00 pm
So your conversation 12 years ago carries more weight that Oxford’s own study?
Comment by Clayton Bigsby — 12.16.05 @ 9:42 pm
It has very little to do with skin color and a ton to do with class.
Color me confused. Did you or did you not write what I just quoted? And if you did, did you mean it?
Comment by DarkStar — 12.17.05 @ 8:56 am
I was mistaken Darkstar I misread what you posted. We are on the same page.
Comment by Clayton Bigsby — 12.17.05 @ 12:55 pm