‘Am I the only one who finds Omar bizarrely out of touch with reality? ‘

How am I? Wanna point this out?

How silly of me to turn down an one-year all-expenses paid scholarship to study in France back in 1982, in order to pursue a career in Aviation with TexANG. Oh, the wickedness of my youth is indeed most greiveous.

How wasteful of me to jump off the fast track in ‘91, and invest $10k of my hard-earned money and 1-year sabbatical to live to Berlin and seek out what post-Warsaw Pact crash opportunity comes my way.

How reckless of me to not return after 1 year, opting instead to build up my business as an entreprenuer specializing in providing services & connections to Anglophones wishing to do business in Germany and Eastern Europe/Russia.

How irrational of me to think that I might and could thrive in the aftermath of The Wall, under a Kohl administration, meet/hang out with with hi-level officials (in spite of my mutt pedigree and lack of appropriate degrees), only to get kneecapped and bleed dry by a thousand papercuts by Schroeder.

Yes, yes, I see it all too clearly now. The only possible reason that I’m returning with my family to the US after almost 13 years in the wilderness — with a re-invented career in supply chain management and RFID tech — is because I’m am so full of irrational hate for the French/Germans and Euroland in general.

For I now know that I know ‘nuh-think’! Heil to Omar Akhbar, fearless leader and discerner of the truth!

Prob not. Which doesn’t make you right.

Ah, i see. You use average per capita GDP to measure the economic might of a country. Funny. Better tell whoever is teaching you economics to think again. As i pointed out, and you conviniently ignored…GDP per capita doesnt measure a countries economic strength, and in the case of the US the result is so high due to extreme mal distribution of wealth.

‘but as a composite, the US’s $11 trillion GDP is approx ahead by of the EU15 by a good $2 tril. With the expansion, the overall EU25 GDP is larger, but consider that the population is over 450 (EU15=381) million to our 293 mil.’

Your point being? You walked into this fact by comparing the USA to 25 sovreign nations. You seem to be perfectly willing to use combined averages of 25 all nations and compare them to the average of 1 nation. Yet you know that the combined GDP of the EU is greater than that of the US.

‘Personally, I admire those new countries and hope they can rein in France & Germany who would dearly love for the “newbies” to share in the Old-Europe misery.’

I suppose its nothing new for American conservatives to have an irrational hatred of France and Germany.

‘Economic recovery is gathering speed in the euro zone and inflation prospects are favorable, the European Central Bank said on Thursday as it kept interest rates steady to allow growth to take a firm hold. ‘

‘ROTFLOL, No, the study is a wake up call. ‘

Yeah. A wake up call to the fact major industrial powers like the UK and Germany are REALLY cess pits with a worse standard of living than Alabama. People starving on the streets and what not. Get a grip. You have no idea what you are talking about.

‘The EU 15 got a little help from their new friends in making those strong, strong numbers.’

Are you AWARE of the 10 new countries that joined the EU? Mostly Eastern European countries that are not nearly as economically advanced as the old EU. A lot of funding and work is needed to get these countries on a par with the rest of the EU.

I’m sorry to point this out, but 2003 was a recovery year according to the NBER. I do admit that this has been an unprecedently horrible recovery for labor though, so I can see how one might think it was a recession.

I’ve always thought the problem with the new deal was that it didn’t do enough, not that it did too much. The Fascist attacks ended the republican hand-wringing.

“Anyway, the EU has nothing to do with this discussion.”

It does as a reference for comparing protectionist/interventionist/socialist/capitalist policy outcomes.

“the EU is quickly catching up with the US”

bwwww-ha-ha:
Better tell UCS Santa Barbara to update their World Economics syllabus;
There is only one Euro country that rivals the States — Luxembourg. In Asia, it is/was Hong Kong until Bejing started meddling.

Li’l ole Connecticut has something like twice the Per Capital GDP of sKerry’s beloved France. Only 4 States are relatively poor by Euro standards (AR, MT, WV & MS).

Given that 10 countries just joined the EU15, I haven’t found solid numbers yet — a good starting point, http://www.czso.cz/eng/redakce.nsf/i/home — but as a composite, the US’s $11 trillion GDP is approx ahead by of the EU15 by a good $2 tril. With the expansion, the overall EU25 GDP is larger, but consider that the population is over 450 (EU15=381) million to our 293 mil. Personally, I admire those new countries and hope they can rein in France & Germany who would dearly love for the “newbies” to share in the Old-Europe misery.

“In reality, aside from this misleading survey…”

ROTFLOL, No, the study is a wake up call. Here’s a quote for you:
‘Thursday September 2, 11:28 am ET
FRANKFURT (Reuters) – Economic recovery is gathering speed in the euro zone and inflation prospects are favorable, the European Central Bank said on Thursday as it kept interest rates steady to allow growth to take a firm hold. “Economic recovery in the euro area has maintained its momentum and should remain firm in coming quarters,” said Trichet after the ECB held its benchmark rate at 2.00 percent for the 15th month in a row.‘

The EU 15 got a little help from their new friends in making those strong, strong numbers.

And the US growth rate is what, as of Aug 04?

I can’t hear yooou.
(hint, it was over 3% in 2003, in middle of our recession, http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html)

All things remaining constant, the EU per-capital will pass us when??

But yeah, you want to compare touchy-feely metrics like the misery index. Of course, who wouldn’t want to weep in the back of a Beetle, when they could so so in the back seat of a Benz.

This is actually a typical American idea, that is unsupported. Other studies have found the EU combined is actually more powerfully economically than the US. The study is ridiculously flawed, when you consider the FACT that the major EU powers – France, Germany, the UK are richer than any US state. The survey doesnt take into account the extremely poor distribution of wealth in the US where the top 5% earners own 59% of all wealth. In reality, aside from this misleading survey….the EU is quickly catching up with the US. I dont know why a lot of Americans feel the need to slam the EU. Its kind of sad really. Few people in Europe feel the need to compare the EU with the US in some kind of competition. Anyway, the EU has nothing to do with this discussion.

‘Economically, the war was the big customer that enabled FDR to pull off a squeaker.’

And in the meantime……the New Deal sent millions back to work, saved the banking system, gave workers some REAL rights…….

‘Buying and selling to yourself might be a short-term solution……’

Ironically, Republican administrations in the 20’s encouraged this no end.

‘All in all, FDR’s policies were the equivilant of applying a series of bandages to a gaping wound that needed stitching. ‘

Ive noticed you like to make a LOT of pointless analogies. Sticking to the grounds of your analogy, Hoover’s laissez faire Capitalist policies were like rubbing acid into a gaping wound that needed some kind of treatment.

This is the tact that most Euros took and it ain’t working (google: timbro euvsusa study english)

However, to finance the New Deal, FDR had to implement the Wealth Tax. Economically, the war was the big customer that enabled FDR to pull off a squeaker. Without it, the customer base wouldn’t expand enough on its own. Buying and selling to yourself might be a short-term solution, entirely unsustainable as a matter of practice, ask Enron.

Dr. New Deal vs Dr. Win-The-War @ us.history.wisc.edu/hist102/lectures/lecture20.html

All in all, FDR’s policies were the equivilant of applying a series of bandages to a gaping wound that needed stitching.

Exactly. This is what i was trying to say.

‘Millions murdered. Political opponents sent to the gulags. Again, read Taubman’s biography of Kruschev.’

In regards to this sentence, its similiar to me comparing modern day US capitalism with Nazism. Contrary to popular belief, you can be a Socialist without being a Communist. Purges committed by Stalin, while being exaggerated by the media in the West….had nothing to do with the ethos of socialism OR communism. Oppression isnt a goal of any regime per se, it is rather a means.

‘Please remember that Hoover didn’t assign people to gulags or murder millions of his political opponents either.’

When did i say he did? Ignoring the fact Krushchev’s revisionist government was radically different to Stalin’s, this is a shoddy defense of Hoover. Because he didnt kill millions of his own people, this doesnt make him a good man or a good President.

‘Again, I go back to Hayek, or Milton Freidman if you prefer.’

Friedman would be a starting point, but even he admitted Keynes was a brilliant economist, and influenced him. At the end of the day, Keynesian economics helped pull the US out the depression. Friedman was stuck in monetarist polcies that could never cope with the Great Depression.

‘And, yes the OVERWHELMING majority of us here in America do not want a socialist state. ‘

I agree. I didnt say i wanted to force Socialism on America, i was merely outlining my personal political/economic opinion. The thing is, people in a lot of places have wanted Socialism and had their efforts interfered with by the US, or other Western nations, including my own Great Britain. Note Chile, Nicaragua, (Indeed Latin America in general) Vietnam, China etc etc…
Throughout history, what the ‘majority’ of people want is often ignored. Heres a nice sound bite from Henry Kissinger, addressing majority thinking in Chile:

“I don’t see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people.” – About Chile prior to the CIA overthrow of the popularly elected government of Salvadore Allende.

“Sumemd up the universal problem of a socialist society. Who plans whom, who directs and dominates whom, and who assigns to other people their station in life, and who is to have his due allocated by others? These become necessarily the central issues decided solely by the supreme power.”

This actually ISNT what Lenin meant. By this, he was refering to WHO is the oppressor, WHOM is the oppressed. Hayek fails to judge what he said correctly, instead assuming this so he can critisize Socialism. Its important to note Lenin never spoke English. Hayek judges Socialism correct, to an extent. Instead of REAL power lying in the hands of unelected big wigs, who can quite often influence the real ‘government’ it lies in the hands of a centralized power, working for the good of everyone. This is pretty basic ethos here, but anyway….Hayek misjudged Lenin.

‘Our fate here in Kansas would be no better than the Kulaks of Stalin’s time. ‘

This is blatant scare mongering. Do you know what a ‘Kulak’ is? This is besides the point anyway. The majority of Socialists, and indeed Marxists are in direct opposition to Stalins autocratic dictatorship. If you’re read Marx, as you claimed….this is not his ethos. I recommend you read works by Althusser, or the Frankfurt School if you want Socialist/Marxist opinions on Stalin’s autocratic regime.

I certainly didn’t say that you WOULD learn something if you read Hayek. I said you MIGHT learn something. It was based on the assumption that one CAN learn through reading. But I do understand that’s not a ironclad law.

RE: the socialist beaurocracy. I’m far from deluded, Omar. There is a historical track record that bears me out. Millions murdered. Political opponents sent to the gulags. Again, read Taubman’s biography of Kruschev.

Please remember that Hoover didn’t assign people to gulags or murder millions of his political opponents either.

Thanks for the epithet. It really helps to further coherent discussion.

I have read Lord Keynes and know a bit about liquidity preference and aggregate demand.

Again, I go back to Hayek, or Milton Freidman if you prefer. Also, if you’re interested in third world economics read Peruvian economist Hernando DeSoto’s “The Mystery of Capital.”

And, yes the OVERWHELMING majority of us here in America do not want a socialist state. Why? wasn’t it lenin who said, “Who, whom?” By that he meant, as Hayek noted, “Sumemd up the universal problem of a socialist society. Who plans whom, who directs and dominates whom, and who assigns to other people their station in life, and who is to have his due allocated by others? These become necessarily the central issues decided solely by the supreme power.”

I have no doubt whatsover of what would happen to us if you were the “supreme power” or, for that matter, Director of the ministry of the beet or winter wheat. Our fate here in Kansas would be no better than the Kulaks of Stalin’s time.