For example, most sane people have no trouble determining that murder and rape are wrong. Why? Because my God says so. Homosexuality is also wrong. Why? Because my God says so. Murder robs an innocent man of his life with no justification, a right no human is given. Rape is the violation of the most personal part of a human being. Homosexuality “robs” God of his plan for man: that he glorify God, that he respect his body as the Temple of the Lord, that he join himself with one woman, that he be fruitful and multiply… The violence of rape and murder, and the act of such a God-dishonoring act as homosexuality, known as “sins” to us religious types, are affronts to society and to the God who forbade them.

People have little trouble understanding that physical laws are not subjective. If you jumped from a 50-story building, the physical laws objectively determine that you will continue falling until a force stops you (the ground). It’s one of the laws of motion. But people tend to view morality subjectively because it isn’t “scientific.”

With your middle-aged woman/teenager example, one could argue that pedophilia is “OK” for some. That’s what the perverts at National Man/Boy Love live for. They can’t wait for the majority of decent folk to cave in to the deviants in our society and allow them to exercise their “civil liberties” on “consenting” children. I really didn’t want this thread to become a discussion about deviancy, but here we are.

I think it’s time to close it.

How so? Are they forcing you to get hitched to a man, or publically say you think homosexuality is great? Your personal opinion should have nothing to do with how they decide to live their lives. How would you feel if a gay said, ‘I think we should ban hetrosexual marriage?’ You would feel like you were being told to do, something conservatives are dead against, surely?

Another thing ive noticed with this wave of conservative thinking – Government intervention to help out people in desperate need economically is wrong, but Government intervention to help crush a minority groups civil liberties is perfectly ok!

‘In fact, as a non-citizen, while your rantings regarding our socio-political system might be duly noted, we really don’t have to give a rat about it, simply because you have no say, per se.’

When did i say you did? What makes you think i give a rat about what YOU think? And especially Noah, who thinks i dont deserve to be US citizen? I can still voice my opinion on issues, i never suggested i had a more valid say than an American citizen. Your logic is – This guy isnt an American, so i dont give a damn about what he says.

‘Or are you just posing as an ex-muslim Armenian-British expatriate?’

Whats THAT got do with ANYTHING? You managed to pointlessly bring in my nationality, race, and religious aphiliations all in one sentence. Sure, i really pretend to be this…..Maybe you are ‘posing’ as an American Conservative. Please. Give me a break.

‘I hope that won’t happen any sooner than 2010′

I can think of 2 words to thinking like this. One is tough, and the other starts with an S.

‘This is the last response I’ll give you, but are you incapaable or reading? I have said in many of the posts here that NOT ALL LIBERALS ARE TRAITORS.’

Yes, but you are endorsing Coulter saying it, and seem to be condemning me for speaking up against it!

‘A university student ought to be able to read and comprehend, perhaps do a little analysis.’

What i analysed is you attacking me for critisizing Coulter’s provocative assertion that all liberals are traitors.

‘has nothing to do with the morality/immorality of homosexual sex as such. ‘

There isnt a universal set of ethics on regarding what is moral or immoral. These are all your opinions. A married 52 year old devout Christian housewife for example, would probably have a different view on morality to a 19 year old college fraternity member who partied more than he studied, and supported the legalisation of cannabis. Saying homosexuality is immoral is a pointless effort based on opinion, mostly i must say due to religion.

‘I’m just saying that, if we are going to argue about the moral status of homosexual sex in an intelligent way, we can’t simply assume that consent is sufficient to make an act, any act, morally OK’

Actus said all these things, but i more or less agree with him. I just thought id respond anyway.

Cordially,
Adrian

Andy,
I’d likely vote for Condi. I’d want to see who else we can get on the ticket with her, esp since even after a Bush 04 win, Cheney is not a viable canidate.

Consent isn’t a simple panacea. It goes into the equation. Take the suicide example you gave us: whats problematic is that its irreveresible. So even if we have your consent, we’re still not ok with it, because of its irreversability.

However, it is undeniable that consent — which includes the capability to consent — is a big difference between homosexuality and the sexual acts listed above.

Or are you just posing as an ex-muslim Armenian-British expatriate? Otherwise, when you become a citizen in due time, you can seal your insights, opinions and convictions at the voting booth. I hope that won’t happen any sooner than 2010.

BTW, I just heard Dick Morris, on the Sean Hannity Radio Show today, say that Condi is the only one who can beat cHillary in ‘08.

Go Condi!!

Adrian

Once again, insert your favorite cause for homosexuality. You can plug in affirmative action, the environment, and on and on and on and on…

The problem is that the other side of the equation is doing exactly that….forcing their beliefs on me. Why do I have to accept gay marraige? If gay marraige is made legal, isn’t it a small minority of the population forcing their beliefs on those who do not believe in gay marraige? Just something to chew on Omar. I’ll be gladly waiting for your response. Great insights, even if I do disagree.

I dont. I never said this. As ive said countless times, surely you can disapprove the ‘homosexual lifestyle’ without going out of your way to make sure they cant marry. They arnt hurting you, or anyone. I personally disapprove of organised religion, this doesnt mean i want to go out and stop people going to Church, or the Mosque or whatever.

‘but it isn’t ok to call someone with treasonous actions and statements traitors?’

What? So you think its perfectly ok to call every Liberal and political dissenter a traitor. Ok, glad we cleared that up!

‘ I don’t recall it being a requirement that we tolerate everything and everyone, which is a point I’ll make to Omar and Raymond.’

Toleration has nothing to do with oppression. You can condemn homosexuality without forcing your beliefs on homosexuals.

‘What many in the gay activist community won’t let us do is ignore them; they want to be shocking, they want to be in your face, and they don’t always want acceptance.’

Perhaps some, but using this generalisation to describe every homosexual is dishonest. Im sure many just want the right to be legally bonded, without their actions being called illegal. Banning gay marriage encourages people to hide who they really are.

While I don’t agree with all of Raymond’s ideas/feelings on this, I don’t recall it being a requirement that we tolerate everything and everyone, which is a point I’ll make to Omar and Raymond. But sometimes when we can’t tolerate, we can ignore. What many in the gay activist community won’t let us do is ignore them; they want to be shocking, they want to be in your face, and they don’t always want acceptance.
I remember when my sister and one of her friends came out.. the most striking thing was their dissapointment that our Republican Conservative father didn’t freak out. They wanted the drama, they wanted the fight. He justed wanted them to be safe, healthy and happy. Same thing when they came out to me a year later. I was relieved to finally no longer have to ignore the elephant in the room, and have the matter out in the open.

When did i say i was gay :S? I dont see the harm in letting homosexuals get hitched. Tell me, how will your life change if a small number of gay people decide to get married? It wont affect you at all, yet you want to oppress them.

‘ you call label people with the term homophobe.’

Er, i think what you’ve said proves you are one. You ever went as far as to call it satanic.

Aw. Hugs for everyone. Except the twisted.

Its ok to terrorize the terrorists, hate the haters, and not tolerate the intolerant.

And for the record, you call label people with the term homophobe. Why then are gays so outraged when people use desscroptive and colorful terms describing their behavior? What happened to tolerance?