What was that line about someone doing nada as long as it happpend to others, but by the time it happened to him it was too late?

Frankly, if we are blessd with a slam dunk on 11/3, the moonbats will rue the day that they squandered it all. That’ll be the day of reckoning I’ve been praying for.

Frankly put, pick a past war, ANY war: if the MSMs of the day had the amazing powers of observation flouted by our current loonies, we would have cut and run each and every time.

Washington’s dilemna: Arrived in Massachusetts in July of 1775, ready to take command of the Continental Army. He found instead a pack of unruly farmers and tradesmen who ate too much and trained too little. Still worse, the soldiers had enlisted for only a six-month term; by the time Washington could have trained them, they would be going home. Though Washington believed that war was inevitable, some members of the Continental Congress held out hope for a peaceful settlement with Britain. As a result they were reluctant to give Washington’s army very much money. When war came, the British proved to be a formidable enemy. Yet Washington found an even more difficult adversary in the Continental Congress. He struggled constantly to pry funds and supplies out of the tight-fisted Congress. Most importantly, he lobbied the Congress to extend the term of enlistment beyond one year, so that he would not lose his troops as soon as he had trained them. He rarely got what he wanted, and at one point faced such resistance that a group of Congressmen led by Thomas Conway attempted to have him fired. He never lost his patience, however. Washington had complete command of the army and could easily have become a dictator, but he remained committed to the rule of law and civilian authority.

Washington’s greatest defeat: In June of 1776 a large British war fleet led by Gen. Howe sailed into New York harbor, the forerunner of an ambitious invasion plan. A month later an army of 10,000 men landed on Staten Island, unopposed by the Americans. All during July and August British reinforcements continued their build-up until Howe was in command of a combined force of 32,000 men, of whom 9000 were German mercenaries. During the final days of August in the Battle of Long Island Howe inflicted a crushing defeat on Washington’s army. To escape the onslaught, Washington withdrew his colonial forces from Brooklyn Heights to Manhattan. Less than two weeks later he decided to evacuate New York City, rather than be trapped in lower Manhattan. However, before he withdrew from the city Washington prepared fortifications in upper Manhattan and was able to repulse the British army in the Battle of Harlem Heights. In October in the face of the advancing British forces of Gen. Howe, Washington evacuated his main force from Manhattan Island, leaving behind a garrison at Fort Washington, and marched to White Plains. In the Battle of White Plains the British inflicted heavy casualties on Washington’s army, whereupon Washington slipped away westward to North Castle on November 1. Two weeks later the British forces under Gen. Howe captured the American garrison at Fort Washington, taking more than 2800 prisoners. After deciding to abandon the New York area, Washington moved his forces across the Hudson River and into New Jersey. Joined by Gen.Greene’s troops at Hackensack, they retreated together toward the Delaware River with Gen. Cornwallis at their heels..

And we’re hand-wringing & gnashing our teeth over Iraq? Fools, please.

Lincoln? Battle of Cedar Mountain, Battle of 1st/2nd Bull Run, Battle of Fredericksburg, amongst others. Fired Gen McClellan would go on to run against Abraham Lincoln in the 1864 U.S. presidential election. In the summer of 1864 Lincoln feared that he would lose the election because of weariness with the war, as Grant appeared deadlocked with Lee in Virginia. Sherman’s capture of Atlanta, Georgia and Sheridan’s victories in the Shenandoah valley dispelled much of this weariness and Lincoln won the election handily. While McClellan was highly popular among the troops when he was commander, it appears that they voted for Lincoln over McClellan in greater proportion than the general population.

So much for some who think that Bush should be listening to “pros”. Wes Clark was also popular among troops, but looks like too many soldiers don’t think much of his CinC potential.

Wilson/FDR/Truman? Anti-Bushites, please, must I go on? We have never forced a change in govt in the midst of war, other than Nam, why change now?

Kids can let you down sometimes. The flaw in my analogy is that you can’t change kids, but you can change presidents. A lot of people trusted the president. Support for the war was in the high 70’s or 80’s. Now its not there anymore.

I don’t think afghanistan was a case of preemption. It was a clear case of a present and current threat.

I don’t have any current candidates for preemptive war, which is not to say that I disagree with the doctrine.

From the personal memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant:

“Experience proves that the man who obstructs a war in which his nation is engaged, no matter whether right or wrong, occupies no enviable place in life or history. Better for him, individually, to advocate ‘war, pestilence, and famine’ than to act as obstructionist to a war already begun. The history of the defeated rebel will be honorable hereafter, compared with that of the Northern man who aided him by conspiring against his government while protected by it. The most favorable posthumous history the stay-at-home traitor can hope for is – oblivion.”

Actus,
Aside from Iraq and Afghanistan, where else would you consider a candidate for pre-emption?

You’re giving them the choice. Which they still can misuse. As an analogy, I can authorize my kids to take my car, but they can still misuse my car, and they can’t rely on the fact that I gave them the keys when I punish them for their misuse.

Maybe in a post 9/11 world, Kerry thinks presidents should have that power. I do. Which doesn’t mean that presidents can be wrong in excercising that power. I haven’t yet heard him say it but kerry’s position boils down to:

The president should be authorized to go to war. This president misused that. We should change presidents, not authorization.

I’m not a very complicated guy, and thats not very nuanced. You can certainly make it nuanced, by arguing over and over about its details, but the same can be said about bush’s ‘ownership society’, or why his doctrine of preemption is not being used in other places besides Iraq. The details are always nuanced.

I’ve always thought this was an interesting one. As it was a vote for authorization, not war. Then again, i’m not a textualist.