Yes. So private even he doesn’t know about it.

Yes, the ancient Greeks *did* jettison religion. Afterward, they became decadent and dissolute, and enamored by their own cleverness. That period spawned not only the Stoics you have mentioned, but also the Epicureans (hedonists whose philosphy can be summed up as “eat, drink, and make merry, for tomorrow we may die”) and a host of other philosophies. The Greeks became so caught up in the love of discussing and arguing philosophies (that the one doing the arguing may or may not have ascribed to) that their society lost cohesiveness, and was subsequently a pushover for Roman conquest. Their Democracy was a fickle mob rule that America has avoided only by the grace of God and by the Founders creating the Electoral College. The Greeks may have no longer believed that their deities were truly gods, but in turning those gods into abstract principles and the mere objects of morality tales, they also took away any relevance the gods may have had to their lives (and by extension, they took away the relvance the morality tales might have had). Far from being unified by dint of their Reason, the Greeks were ultimately torn apart by said Reason, because they could not agree upon the fundamentals of what constitutes Truth.

And that, as I see it, is the end of all exercises of Reason that reject God from the outset: decadance, dissolution, and impotence. As Solomon wrote, “Then I looked on all the works that my hands had done and on the labor in which I had toiled; and indeed all was vanity and grasping for the wind. There was no profit under the sun.” Human reason is a wonderful thing, but is of itself insufficient to either discern ultimate meaning or to serve as an enduring principle of morality and social cohesiveness.

Just the first paragraph was written to address your comments about the founding fathers beliefs. The second paragraph was to address some other comments.

By this statement, you’ve asserted that a person who “wears his religon on his sleeve” in a public capacity is illogical

Regardless of your clams to the contrary, you are practicing a form of religon — a belief system for things that you cannot directly explain. You cannot prove eternity for the simple reason that you have not been there per se. My belief system tells me that there is not only a creator, but that all of his creation can speak.

The fact that animals do not reason with you now is by design, notwithstanding that they once had the capabilty to do so and will do so agin upon His return.

Furthermore, I think plenty of secular scientists will take issue with your definition of reason as pertains to animal behavior.

As La Shawn stated. I hope you keep searching for the truth — the logic thereof. All the same, God has said that truth is self-evident, yet in our fallen state, we have become wise in our own eyes and deny the truth of the very things we can see. That being the case, how can you believe in things not seen nor understood?

This is where your reason become circular. And in no other religion — non-Judeo-Christian/Abrahmic — is there a linear and logical explanation given of who we are and how we came to be.

Nowhere have I said a person cannot do these things. Your assertion is a non sequitur.

On the issue of separation of church and state, the constitution does not provide for such a thing. It says that the government cannot establish a state religion, i.e. The Church of England or Scotland. However, Christians do believe in the separation of church and state, BUT we believe that involves the government staying out of church affairs, and not setting up a state church. Nowhere do Christians or the constitution say that separation of church and state means that it is illegal or uncouth to mention the name of God in public, private or to practice your faith.

He has been front and center – publically receiving communion and the center of a Church controversy about abortion.

And Kerry has been front and center in Black churches.

I repeat: when men misuse, misapply and misinterpret Scripture, it is man’s fault, not God’s. You can cite all the historical examples of evil you want. Fallen man, as you know, will do anything to get what he wants. I’d rather have God in the public sphere because you know the god of secular humanism is always there.

I’m thinking of child-killing, which has become a political issue. It is not a political issue for me; it is murder. If I’m lobbying against Roe v. Wade in the public sphere, for example, I would invoke the name of God because the Bible tells me it is murder. Just because secularists have turned these things into “politics” doesn’t mean the issues are now hands-off for Christians or that we shouldn’t clarify the reason we oppose child-killing. Satan would love that.

And I am also a Reformed Protestant. I really don’t like to “argue” with Christians on the blog, so if you want to continue this discussion, please e-mail me.

Christians are both citizens of Heaven and the world. When we engage in politics we are participating as citizens of earth, and we should behave so.

Because we have failed to do this, we’ve identified God with political causes and the Church has become irrelevant to today’s culture. Even if the blame of the Crusades, slavery, and segregation on us.

Not very long ago the Dutch Reformed Church (majority church in South Africa) argued that God was on the side of the Afrikaner, or the white South African. They pointed to victories over the British and other African tribes to prove this. The English viewed themselves as the new Israel at war with Babylon (Protestants vs. the Spanish Catholics). When they defeated the Spanish Armada this “proved” to the English that God was on their side.

In 1857 the Dutch Reformed Church declared that it was okay for churches to be built on racial lines: this was the start of apartheid.

There are countless times when well-meaning Christians dragged God into the political arena, to used His name to endorse their terrible cause. This is why many view the Church as irrelevant, and a majory setback to the Gospel.

One can use God’s name in the public sphere if the issue is theological, not political. And one must make sure that one recognizes the difference between the Church’s calling to proclaim the Law and the Gospel (revealed in Scripture) and the State’s calling to enforce civil justice as it is based on natural revelation.

As for my capitalizing “Church” it comes from my love for Christ’s bride. I’m not a Catholic, but a Reformed Protestant.