I can’t believe we’re negotiating with terrorists. Falluja and all other “hot spots” should have been razed months ago. Get the killers out, then go in and secure the area. We’re still battling and being killed by rag tag murderers. Unbelievable.
I don’t like war, and I want the troops to come home.
Terrorists don’t like George Bush. More from Michelle Malkin.
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The way we are dealing with terrorists in Iraq is a direct result of local sovereignty policies. The US position is to work with the local government to secure a solidified leadership run by Iraqis. The problem is segregating Iraqi (warlords) forces that haven’t recognized the present leadership from true terrorists. They aren’t the same thing.
Often, as is the case in Afghanistan, a warlord today can be tomorrow’s local governor. And, creating alliances with armed leadership is sometimes necessary to establish cohesion – especially after a civil war or revolution. Since we artificially created this revolution from the outside, these deals weren’t ironed out before the collapse of the central Baath government. This is this failure to “win the peave” Kerry likes to discuss. Of course, there’s absolutely NO WAY to do these deals before you invade, especially when we bailed so often on missions of regime change in the past (see, Bush [41] and Clinton).
The question is, “Do we continue to take casualities to try to allow local governance to work out their internal conflicts, or do we say to the enemy, ‘if you use force to negotiate, we will kill you like dogs’?
I lean hard to the latter option, as apprently do you. I just wanted to try to articulate the positions more clearly for my own purposes. May ye be etified.
It will be interesting to see what occurs after Nov2. The is talk that the military is waitint until after the elections to subdue Fallujah. The reasoning is that fighting for these hotspots in the Sunni Triangle would affect how the election would turn out whether goog or bad. Intersting?
Informative post Jason. I always thought it was the presidential election here at home that was stopping more aggressive action that would lead to more US causalities, hurting President Bush’s reelection. But you have convinced me it is more complicated than that.
I would like to say I think it borders on treason the unrelenting negative reporting and attacking of the war here at home by the liberal media and liberal politicians wanting the power in Washington DC. Starting with the negative hand wringers about our troops possibly bogged down in sand storms in the desert with the first attack, and still going on today with trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill worldwide regarding 7 soldiers out of 140,000 refusing an order. The enemy is just eating it up.
It is amazing, with all the aid, comfort, and encouragement the terrorist have received from our own country, that we have made as much progress as we have. The blood of many unnecessary losses as well as the Vietnamization of this war rests directly at the feet of the liberal media and Washington politicians; John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Polosi, and associates. This war should never have been made political. Disgusting and depressing statement about our politics here at home.
In the Civil War, General Ulysses S. Grant described this behavior this way:
“Experience proves that the man who obstructs a war in which his nation is engaged, no matter whether right or wrong, occupies no enviable place in life or history. Better for him, individually, to advocate ‘war, pestilence, and famine’ than to act as obstructionist to a war already begun. The history of the defeated rebel will be honorable hereafter, compared with that of the Northern man who aided him by conspiring against his government while protected by it. The most favorable posthumous history the stay-at-home traitor can hope for is – oblivion.”
Is there any coincidence that President Bush’s approval rating has increased up to 54% coinciding with his increased attacks on Fallujah? Is it just a coincidence that people are more likely to say he is doing a good job the more they hear about muslim insurgent casualties and deaths than they do about American deaths?
The rationale is simple and I (we) have been telling him for a long time and it seems he is finally listening. It is NOT the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people that are important. It is the hearts and minds of the American people that are important. We will worry about what muslims think later. AFTER we win the war.
In the mean time, President Bush would be wise to continue the Gen. George S. Patton approach to this war and make the news report Iraqi insurgent deaths rather than US deaths contrary to what the old media reports. America responds positively to the news of dozens or hundreds or even thousands of terrorists deaths. So keep making news Mr. Bush until they stop wanting to be headlines.
Keep it up Mr. President!!! Just add more cities to the lists and take the fight to the enemies. No more cease fires. When they raise the white flag, respond with a 2,000lb bomb. No more mercy until THE WAR IS WON!!!!! Take mosques off of the protected list and make Iraq a free fire zone if you have to. Uncuff the nads of our fighting men. Show them what a REAL military can do when it is angry. Forget what the world thinks. They don’t think this is their fight.
As for those soldiers who allegedly disobeyed the orders to deliver supplies in that convoy? If found guilty, they should be punished to the fullest extent the UCMJ allows. The US military is already threatened with chaos if John Kerry is unfortunately elected. We cannot allow a breakdown now. We have a new generation of senior commanders that will soon be Pentagon level strategic policy makers and I am afraid the ones sliding into those positions now are weak, not tested in battle and heavily populated by Clinton era promotees. They may be enculturated with too much of a pacifist bent to be allowed to set or execute national security plans. We need hard core KILLERS leading our military. We the civilian population will decide when to turn them on and off on the battlefield. I don’t want a man wearing a bird or 4 stars on his epaulets whose only combat experience is how to negotiate a cease fire or process prisoners of war. I want commanders on the battlefield who know how to bust bunkers, break tanks, run through enemy defenses, flatten buildings and destroy cities. THAT is the job of a potent military.
Raymond C. Coleman
Formerly of 3rd Battalion/75th Ranger Regiment, Ft. Benning GA
1st Battalion/18th INF, 24th ID, Ft. Benning, GA
Tampa, FL
Jason, your reasoning is more or less on the mark. Not only in establishing rapport with the locals, it also has to do with the credibility of our “stick”. For too long, our stick was perceived as a flimsy switch — given sufficient resistance, it breaks — instead of a real Bufford Pusser kind of stick.
Other tinpot dictators are watching closely to see the measure of our stick. Apparently Kaddafi was sufficently convinced to cry uncle, just by us waving it at him, unless he intends to play an elaborate con game. North Korea and Iran are also watching and evaluating their pain tolerance.
Bottomline, we have to finese our clout — don’t want to be seen as whiffing — so that everyone else will know how the game is played by our rules, so that future baddies will know how they want to end it.
Remember it was State Department’s April Glasby, in Summer ‘90, that deliberately or inadvertantly caused Saddam to think his invasion of Kuwait would bring no objection from us in the first place.
This is a problem that Bush needs to decisively fix. POTUS cannot be undermined by bureaucrats who don’t toe the executive line. They are not elected officials, yet have sworn to faithfully execute our national policies. Running their own agenda must be swiftly dealt with, otherwise, our diplomacy is less than credible and can lead to war when despots misconstrue our “nuances”.
A good current example is Skerry and the CBC’s ranting about Aristide of Haiti. Mayhem is heating up because the Aristide supporters are emboldened by the possibilty of sKerry winning and restoring Aristide to power. If there is a soundbite from the UN representative criticizing sKerry for his inane comments, Rove should run a commercial highlighting it.
OCTOBER SURPRISE?
Newsmax is reporting that Kerry may not have even received and honorable discharge. Hmmmmmm?
After destroying Fallujah and other “hot spots,” we should go into Iran (the #1 terrorist nation), Syria, and all the other terrorist hellholes and take care of business.
Dare- I’m impressed.
Jason said it better than I could have but I think the thing most people seem to forget is that we are now in a sovereign nation at their pleasure. Going in unilaterally right now would truly make us a bully and unacceptable to the Iraqis.
Armchair generals are plentiful, but unless you’ve been amid the political decisions going on from interim President Allawi, I have to believe he is more equipped to handle the situation than all the armchair generals over here are.
I don’t think anyone is waiting ’til after the election. The process has begun. Maybe not to everyone’s instant gratification, but give them the benefit of the doubt and see if Allawi can manage this with the least amount of bloodshed. Massive dissention between the locals and Zarqawi are already hepling to begin the end for him and his followers. Think about what has been accomplished so far and in such a short amount of time.
Before comitting to an invasion of Iran or Syria, let us first win the war in Iraq by surrounding and defeating the terrorist murderers. We must hit them hard and often, despite the protests of liberals and the media (I repeat myself.)
Then let us take into account what is needed militarily, not politically, to take on another mission. At this point it is premature to suggest that we can finish Iraq, regroup, and start another push immediately. We are wise to yield to military commnaders as to whether the military is ready.
The problem in Fallujah stems from the mistake by Bremer in the spring, when he held the Marines back. It was before the handover of sovereignty, and we could have and should have acted forcefully then.
Since the IGC has been in control, they have pursued negotiations. Now, it seems, Allawi and the IGC are fed up, and ready to let us finish the job.
Better late, than never . . .
Roundguy,
Iraq is about as sovereign as a saturday night hooker. When want to do something we sould and WILL do it.
There’s a lot going on behind the scenes in Iraq that the media seems totally unaware of. Try reading some of the Iraqi blogs, both from U.S. military and from Iraqis themselves.
One blogger noted that our chances of success in getting rid of the terrorists/insurgents now are greater than they were a few months ago. Since the initial withdrawal from Fallujah, the military have spent time developing human intelligence. Key was to determine the web of relationships of many of the key figures, both among the insurgents and among the emerging Iraqi leaders in this, and other, towns. Then they could use that network to gather information and understand the dynamics of the mostly tribal behaviors. Plus, the regular folks have now had a taste, however brief, of, first, freedom, then renewed control and intolerance under the insurgents/terrorists. So now instead of siding with their ‘own’, the common Iraqis know first-hand that they do NOT prefer the suppresion, fear, and intimidation of the insurgents. They are therefore coming forward and aiding the U.S. and Iraqi military and police efforts to capture or kill the insurgents/terrorists.
Was this consciously planned? I don’t know. I’d like to believe our leaders were this wise. I suspect that they learned it enroute to this, and based on what several of the military bloggers are saying, our military leadership is finally learning to listen to the guys in the front lines.
Afghanistan is well on its way to freedom and democracy, and Iraq is next. Too bad Kosovo, under the UN, is still floundering 5 years after it was ‘liberated’ under Clinton and the UN. I think the UN is making itself redundant, and good riddance.
The Washington Times reports British troops being moved to support LARGE SCALE INVASION OF FALLUJAH!!!
About time!
“Iraq is about as sovereign as a Saturday night hooker.”
Raymond, Are you speaking from first hand knowledge here? BTW, did you hear Blair is being accused by his political opposition in Britain of trying to help Bush’s reelection? The self-interest an selfishness, at the expense of your country and its soldiers at risk, is just mind blowing.
I love politics and have often thought of running for office, but after self-examination and observation of the stuff that goes on in politics, I know I just cannot
do the rotten things required win.
I know from reading the Iraqi blogs, and then the CPA poll, tha the first incursion into Falluja was more than ordinary Iraqis could take. You have to consider that Iraqis were watching American infidels, fighting close combat in the homes of their citizens. It was blasted all over Arab Satellite TV. It was just too much and teh Iraqis balked. We had to stand down, at leastthat was the decision.
Now here we are again and I think the situation is different. The people now realise their government is involved and it’s Falluja or contiued violence. The USA/Iraqi forces will take Falluja beginning next week, or the day after the election in my opinion. The other point is that it’s a useless exercise to take a town ulnles youhave the means and environment to hold it. I think that situation is closer to favorable now than back in March.
The Islamofascists with their metaphysical eroticism goals in the afterlife have utterly given up on modern civilization choosing instead to slit babies throats in the name of God. We have no other choice but to usher these people as quickly as possible into the afterlife. Sadly for them there won’t be 72 virgins waiting to be deflowered but rather an immediate judgement by God.
Here is a post by an Iraqi blogger. I think it speaks volumes about how they really feel about us being there, and what is being accomplished. Don’t believe everything that the liberal American MSM tells you.
LISTEN AMERICA
Hi,
I have been listening to the report about the WMD’s by Mr. David Kay. Now, all of you in the West must know that as far as we, the Iraqis, are concerned, we care very little that stocks of WMD’s existed or not at the time of liberation. For us Saddam and his regime were in themselves, the most lethal WMD that cost our people hundreds of thousands of victims not to mention the destruction of the economy and the very fabric of society in our afflicted country. That regime was a dead end for our people and with its continuation there was no hope whatsoever for the future. Mr. David Kay did mention something about this, and he should know, since he spent so much time in Iraq and has intimate knowledge of the situation. Saddamism is a cancer that we have yet to recover from. Western intervention lead by the U.S.A. was a God send to us, despite all the pain and misery that accompanied the operation and the repercussions that continue to rock the process of recuperation and rebirth of the nation. The U.S. soldiers are bravely standing in the thick of the turmoil and contributing with their blood and sweat not to mention the treasure of their land, towards curing us from the remaining ulcers of the disease after having performed the main surgery which no one else even dared even to think of.
Perhaps, the interests of our people were not the main consideration that led to that action; nevertheless, that does not change anything about the importance and implications for the people of Iraq of this tremendous historical act. Yes there is pain, chaos and loss; yet on the other hand, there is possibility of hope, and a clearly discernible “light at the end of tunnel”, to use this worn out phrase.
Were we better off during Saddam’s time? – A question to which many outsiders are very keen to know our answer. Well, in many respects the streets are much more insecure, yet the security that existed in Saddam’s days was like someone quietly waiting for certain death; like a cancer stricken individual carrying the disease in his guts with no hope or attempt at cure. Yes, the pain and torture may be much more terrible when the surgeon has operated and the disease is tackled; but at least there is hope of recovery and healing, and the prospect of life saving. And this is not allegory, nor a parable; this is coming from someone whose house has been standing in the midst of bombs and explosions for so long now, protected by none but the mercy and grace of the Lord; from someone who has suffered robbery, kidnapping and constant daily danger.
And here we are, trying to organize elections, trying to control the security situation, trying to restart the reconstruction, able to talk, able to think, able to watch satellite T.V., use the internet, the mobile etc. – in short everything that we have been forbidden to do before. And without the slightest hesitation, we hail with Love and Gratitude our giant U.S. friend and his allies, standing with us shoulder to shoulder, braving the elements, braving death, calumny and hatred, shedding blood; to help us heal, to help us reach the shores of safety. And make no mistake, the campaign is winning and will achieve its objectives. Make no mistake; you have already created an allied nation in the very heart of the M.E. despite all appearances, which will produce all the long term benefits and consequences so many times reiterated by President Bush, to the ridicule and insults of the profoundly mistaken, of the profoundly hating.
America, stay the course – God, Decency, Honor, Hope and everything that is virtuous and right is on your side, beside the majority of the Iraqi people. America do not waiver, for you have never waged a more noble and just campaign in your entire history. America, we are winning, God’s willing, and Victory is coming sooner than many might think.
Salaam
# posted by Alaa : 6:07 AM
Claire, Vanyogan & Kiki; all good “rest of the story” posts.
Kiki! Which Iraqi blog did that come from? I missed it.
Allan,
It’s Alaa’s blog, he goes by The Mesopotamian. It was written probably about a week ago. I had to go into his archives to pull this up. I also like a more recent post of his where he talks about the American elections. He feels that they are more important to Iraqi democracy than even their own elections. Here’s the addy.:
http://messopotamian.blogspot.com/
P.S. I have also wondered whether or not he is a Christian. I haven’t asked him because I don’t want to put him in danger. However, he is the only Iraqi I’ve seen talk about “the Lord”, grace and mercy. The others will use Allah, or maybe God.
“Falluja and all other “hot spots” should have been razed months ago.”
there’s like two hundred thousand people who live there. we don’t raze two hundred thousand people.
The Marines I know would like to have elminated those in Fallujah long ago.
*Praying for you, La Shawn- a long-time reader and Christian sister, I would miss it if you discontinued, but listening to God is the best voice to read and hear- above all the ones talking on your blog
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