There was a time when lazy fools like this wouldn’t have even qualified for a city job. But with affirmative action policies, skin color quotas and all…
A Channel 9 investigation uncovered that Orlando city workers’ lunch breaks were lasting hours. When cameras showed up, they scattered and only Channel 9 has the video that’s launched a major investigation at city hall.The workers were supposed to be fixing potholes and improving road drainage, instead they were playing cards. Eyewitness Bob Howard says he’s seen the crews out at Roosevelt Martin Park for at least the past six months.
“They’re out here for approximately three hours. Then they do something else and they roll out,” says Howard.
Channel 9 cameras caught the roads and drainage crews five different times. And even though the crews only get a half-hour lunch break, they were almost always out longer. One water truck once spent two and a half hours at the park. His co-workers were there over two hours several times. (Source)
As I got toward the end of the article, I anticipated the obvious consequence of such stupidity: termination. But that’s my fantasy-world silliness. I temporarily forgot this is the government we’re talking about, an incubator of incompetence:
[C]ity workers Donnel Cooper and Donald Graham received three-day suspension along with two other men, while Eric Linton received a one-day suspension.
Of course if they were fired, the inevitable cry of “Racism!” would be heard far and wide. Such idiotic behavior plays right into all the negative stereotypes about blacks as lazy, shiftless, and not to mention stupid for getting caught on tape.
Thank you for posting this.
Good morning:)
Comment by Renee — 02.11.05 @ 7:13 am
Don’t forget plain old patronage. And union cronyism.
I’ve worked in the govenrment, and trust me, there are plenty of folks that don’t need affirmative action to be this lazy.
Some for instance, win an election in Mass. And marry heiress after heirress.
My company is private sector, and even with the union, this doesn’t fly. Our trucks have GPS units and a radio system that keeps track of where they are. Some folks objected, but the safety and insurance arguments won out in the end.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 02.11.05 @ 8:08 am
LB, the thinking involved in this piece is sloppy.
I’ve been associated, not working for, but associated with government 15 years. I’ve seen white men and women reading newspapers while on duty. I’ve seen white men and women spending a major portion of their day in the on site drug store, reading magazines and newspapers. I’ve seen white men and women running betting pools during business ours.
But, you chose this to attack Black people?
Seriously, you can do much better than this.
Comment by DarkStar — 02.11.05 @ 8:42 am
I knew a subject like this would draw you out, DS. Why is it that every time I write about black folks, black liberals come out the wordwork and chastise me? “But the white man does it, too,” is not the focus of this post or what I do on this blog, if you hadn’t noticed.
That’s what your blog is for.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.11.05 @ 8:49 am
This is what happens when the government does something that a private contractor could do better. A private contractor wouldn’t stand for this idleness. The folks would be fired.
The incentive to do no work is written into government work (too often). This is not a black thing, but an unaccountable government thing.
Comment by Curtis — 02.11.05 @ 8:50 am
Same ole’ excuses huh DS. “I see white people..blah, blah, blah”. So it’s monkey see, monkey do? No responsibility for “self”?
Comment by Renee — 02.11.05 @ 9:04 am
LB, I’m with DarkStar: this is sloppy.
The conduct at issue is wrong, and it reflects poorly on black folks to the extent that we decide to let it.
However, there’s nothing here that involves affirmative ation or skin quotas: if anything, union cronyism is at work, which is bad. You assume that these black individuals were hired as a result of affirmative action, which is baseless on your part to begin with. There’s no compelling reason to think that these guys were hired as part of a quota, except that quotas existed in general at the time of the men’s hiring. Do you even know the city of Orlando’s policy with respect to AA?
There may be an affirmative action element here, but you haven’t exactly established grounds for it–except, of course, that the men involved appear to be black.
Comment by tvd — 02.11.05 @ 9:08 am
Two thumbs up LB, this one is a GREAT writeup (definitely not afraid to tell it like it is although some can’t take the heat). Sloppy is in the “eyes” of the reader
Comment by Renee — 02.11.05 @ 9:11 am
I’m blogging, tvd, not writing a treatise. You liberals can take issue with this post all you want. It never ceases to amaze me. Calling a thing what it is is somehow worse than the thing itself. It was true when I started this blog over a year ago, and it still is.
By way of speculation, I’m sure Orlando’s skin color preference policy is the same as every other government agency’s: the government workplace must have a certain percentage of black faces in the joint. In the case of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, however, blacks are overrepresented in the very government bureaucracy charged with addressing race discrimination. The irony is too sweet.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.11.05 @ 9:17 am
Curtis said:
“The incentive to do no work is written into government work (too often). This is not a black thing, but an unaccountable government thing.”
Bingo! Well-said, Curtis. And a great article - as always - LB
Comment by Ernest S. — 02.11.05 @ 9:39 am
LaShawn,
DarkStar makes a fair point. Lazy civil servants is not a anything new. How many have waited for hours at the DMV while the gum smacking clerk twirls her hair? The video footage came form the point of exposing lazy workers who “earn” from public money. They where obviously black but AA or race was never the focus. Their laziness was.
But you made the point that this was because of race preferences. That We would not have lazy people in government jobs if we did not have AA. I don’t see how you could make that leap.
Comment by BH — 02.11.05 @ 10:40 am
Whatever.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.11.05 @ 10:45 am
Am I the only one who thinks it’s ironic that they punished non-working workers - by giving them time off of work?
Without pay of course.
I hope.
Comment by RightWingDuck — 02.11.05 @ 10:58 am
It’s as if they’re being rewarded. They don’t want to work anyway, so what do they care about losing a few days’ pay? They’re not at work.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.11.05 @ 11:03 am
LaShawn,
I wonder if those who have expressed opposing comments to your post would also have stepped-up and done the same if the photo had identified all “white” lazy government employees of which you then posted a similar opinion? I very much doubt it.
Comment by Dave in AZ — 02.11.05 @ 11:03 am
Dave in AZ,
If LaShawn had specifically cited a ‘white’ AA program, of course we would. But she didn’t, she took an issue that affects all and used it to bash AA programs. Similar to conservative reaction to Jason Blair. But the same fervor didn’t apply to USA Today writer Jack Kelly for doing much worse.
Comment by ArtElliot — 02.11.05 @ 11:24 am
Also, being from Orlando, its not an AA issue, it is a poor employee pool issue. The people who are going to take that type of job aren’t going to be the most responsible of citizens.
Comment by ArtElliot — 02.11.05 @ 11:26 am
Bingo - So why hire the shiftless? Why not provide affirmative action and outreach to a wider pool of responsible citizens? I notice that my detractors aren’t necessarily disputing my assertion that these employees are lazy. You take issue with my criticism of blacks and not whites who’re also shiftless, affirmative action and attributing this mess to skin color preferences. I think you’re all being disingenuous if you’re implying preferences have nothing to do with the quality of workers in certain jobs, especially in government jobs, where skin color quotas are mandated by law.
Truly sad and demeaning in the eyes of this conservative.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.11.05 @ 11:30 am
Before I read other people’s posts…. Let me say…
I contract with the state of CA and I have been very surprised as to what an employee can get away with. As a CONTRACTOR I have to perform or I can be let go tomorrow.
But I have seen people who are sleeping, operating other businesses from their cubicle, and people who at every turn try to stop progress or keep change from happening.
The sleeping one hit me the hardest. Because there was a guy doing it every day and nothing would happen to him. After a few discussions with others I found that he successfully worked with the union against management before and no management really wants to deal with him.
Comment by Baklava — 02.11.05 @ 11:46 am
I won’t even mention the failure and incompetence at some government-run black hosptials. Atrocious.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.11.05 @ 11:48 am
Hey Darkstar and LaShawn,
the sleeper that I was talking about is Latino.
Oh no. I mentioned something that DS doesn’t like me to mention.
Comment by Baklava — 02.11.05 @ 11:49 am
OK, you’re gone. You had to get personal and call me names. Thanks for playing. - Admin
Comment by ArtElliot — 02.11.05 @ 11:54 am
TVD,
Now I’ve had it. One of the people I was talking about was operating a business out of her cubicle and not getting work done.
I am currently working with the person who used to manage this person. The person who managed was white and the person who was not doing the work was black. As soon as this manager truthfully wrote and evaluation there were charges of racism and the union backed her up.
There is a DOUBLE thing at work here sometimes and you’ve got to let La Shawn report what she sees at work here.
I work with a contractor who is black and he works hard. He couldn’t get away with making a charge of racism or not doing work.
La Shawn and I would have to go out of our way to NOT report the truth of what we see. If that is sloppy then that is your opinion and we find your opinion incorrect.
Comment by Baklava — 02.11.05 @ 11:55 am
Not really. I just run my blog the way I want to. This is a dictatorship, not a democracy, and you obviously haven’t been reading long enough to know that. Perhaps I should re-post my comment policy. Perhaps not. Whatever - Admin
Comment by ArtElliot — 02.11.05 @ 12:04 pm
La Shawn, Baklava; that’ll preach!!!
That’s one reason why in the Federal Govt, many former civil service jobs are being A-76′d. Meaning that work that used to be performed by shiftless gubmint workers are being contracted out.
This is a good thing. As a contractor I deal with these unionized jerks all the time and it’s with great relish that we’re bidding on a contract that will “drive a stake in the heart” of one of my personal nemesis. If we win this particular one, you can be sure I’m not hiring her for her old position, bwwahaha.
Comment by Andy — 02.11.05 @ 12:13 pm
BTW, La Shawn. In my past life when I actually would read the Sacramento newspaper (not worth typing the name of it) I would write an editorial and guess what…….
They owned the paper and they chose not to EVER put my editorial in there. I guess they had a dictatorship too? Nah. I describe it as the fact that it was theirs. They owned it.
You own your blog and therefore the content within. It is perfectly reasonable to have standards and those who can’t meet the standards can get their own blog if they want a voice.
Comment by Baklava — 02.11.05 @ 12:28 pm
LaShawn, I LOVE your no-nonsense attitude. It is EXTREMELY refreshing! Keep up the great work! You are a precious rarity in this world. I am grateful that you write this blog, where you are not limited by others to write what you want… and where you can just say it like it is. Your blog is a “must-read” in my daily routine.
God bless!
Comment by Janna — 02.11.05 @ 12:41 pm
“I’m blogging, tvd, not writing a treatise.”
No one asks you to write a treatise. Just to be fair in your assessments.
“You liberals can take issue with this post all you want. It never ceases to amaze me. Calling a thing what it is is somehow worse than the thing itself.”
It’s laziness by five government employees. The “thing” at issue is just that. Perhaps government employees are lazy and shiftless as a whole. To suggest that this laziness is somehow *caused* by preferences is tough to swallow without some basis for comparison: were government employees industrious, efficient workers before affirmative action? If so, then maybe your point holds.
“In the case of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, however, blacks are overrepresented in the very government bureaucracy charged with addressing race discrimination. The irony is too sweet.”
Is the EEOC lazier than other government agencies? That might prove something about a “culture of preference” and what it does to the work ethic. That was your main point, right?
I’m with BH here: “But you made the point that this was because of race preferences. That We would not have lazy people in government jobs if we did not have AA. I don’t see how you could make that leap.”
That’s all that I’d like–some justification for that leap. If you want to base it on yours and Baklava’s anecdotal evidence and opinions, I respect that, but that’s not exactly proof of any larger condition. But, as several posters have commented, it’s your bog, and you’re free to write what you want.
However, it’s worth noting that a vast majority of the Fortune 500 companies have AA/diversity policies. As does Cravath, Swaine and Moore. As does Goldman Sachs. Does that affect your analysis in any meaningful way?
Comment by tvd — 02.11.05 @ 12:52 pm
If your point is that AA is good, then we disagree TVD.
We need to starting at this point say that my child going through a public school and any other child going through a public school will be treated equally. No more lowering of standards (granting preferential treatment to or discriminating against) for one race or another for admission into college.
I agree 100% with Ward Connerly. I voted for the prop 209 in CA which is the CA Civil Rights Initiative that successfully blocked the state from being able to grant preferential treatment or discriminate anyone based on race or ethnicity.
The company I worked for at the time was a husband and wife operation who classified themselves as a woman owned business to try to gain favor with State of CA contracts.
Please read Ward Connerly’s book “Creating Equal” if you would like to understand La Shawn and I’s position on AA.
Anecdotal? Yes. But I’ve come across hundreds of government employees here at the state of CA. There is a presence of every race and there is a presence of laziness represented among all the races but what I’ve seen in 2 instances where racism was charged against managers who were trying to fix the problem is UNACCEPTABLE. The non-minority lazy people did NOT have any crutches or advancement options to fall on. The merit that they showed reflected in a much more noticeable way in their non-advancement and shorter leashes that they were on.
It seems that you want us to change our perception as opposed to changing the actual source of the perception. I can only apologize that the situation exists ENOUGH that it is EVIDENT.
Comment by Baklava — 02.11.05 @ 1:05 pm
Our politicians in New Jersey can have two or three government jobs and they still get nothing done. We are still waiting for property tax reform while they talk, talk, talk.
By the way, where were the supervisors overseeing the workers in Orlando? Suppose they were in the office watching Jerry Springer re-runs?
Comment by ratso ferrari — 02.11.05 @ 1:13 pm
Why is it that every time I write about black folks, black liberals come out the wordwork and chastise me?
Why am I a liberal when even you wrote we have similar views on things? And I guess you didn’t notice a few “good point” entries that I made here?
“But the white man does it, too,” is not the focus of this post or what I do on this blog, if you hadn’t noticed.
You made a point of saying this was race related. I made a strong point of demonstrating that it’s not race related. The only way to do this is to use whites in the counterpoint.
I wonder if those who have expressed opposing comments to your post would also have stepped-up and done the same if the photo had identified all “white” lazy government employees of which you then posted a similar opinion? I very much doubt it.
Yes. I would and I have. I reported a lazy worker, hoping that the person would be “counseled” at a minimum and fired at the best. Neither happened.
I notice that my detractors aren’t necessarily disputing my assertion that these employees are lazy.
If you had just written about the laziness of the workers, I would have chimed in on my experiences. Should I mention the lunch time sexcapades that I witnessed one summer I worked in the Social Security administration?
You made it a point to link Blacks, affirmative action, and cries of racism if fired into the mix.
It’s the linkage that I called sloppy. It’s that linkage to which I say you are much better.
If I told you about the white woman who was selling sexual favors in a gov’t building, and wrote that it’s a demonstration on the immorality of white women, I would be attacked left and right, with good justification.
Comment by DarkStar — 02.11.05 @ 2:12 pm
“If your point is that AA is good, then we disagree TVD.”
Baklava, the point wasn’t that AA was good or isn’t: the point was that there isn’t enough support for LB’s conclusion about the connection between affirmative action and lazy government workers. AA may very well be the cause of government employee laziness–I’m not ruling that out at all. I’d just like to see proof, and that means, at the very minimum, ruling out some of the more evident possibilities, like union cronyism, or just a lack of moral fiber, or any number of non-policy based reasons that a culture of laziness exists.
As for Connerly, I’ve read his work, and he’s very committed to what he does. I think it’s also a mile wide and an inch deep, and it relies on a major premise that all discrimination is always the same, and, of course, as a supporter of AA, I disagree with that premise.
As far as what was done re: Prop 209, that’s well and good. What works for California (and, IIRC, Michigan) may not work for other states. There’s isn’t any legal authority that mandates affirmative action/diversity initiatives, and states are perfectly free not to use it. I’ll simply note, as I did above, that the private sector almost uniformly finds diversity initiatives to be both moral and profitable. Even the biggest of Big Business employ diversity initiatives, and certainly no one questions the business acumen of the folks that come out of GS or the big New York law firms, or of folks like Vernon Jordan and Michael Powell.
DarkStar, per usual, is on point, and he makes me wish I had interned in government rather than with stuffy law firms
Comment by tvd — 02.11.05 @ 3:33 pm
The difference between overloaded government bureaucracies having skin color preference policies and the private sector is that government, which is supposed to protect its citizens from racial discrimination, has such discrimination written into the law. Private companies with discrimination policies, which are voluntary unless they’re doing business with the government, are of less concern, at least to me. But when a government does something as odious as categorizing its citizens by race…do I really have to explain this?
Good grief. I’m a minority in my thinking, and I wear it like a badge of honor. Honor…what a laugh! The concept is obsolete in this PC culture we live in. Sorry to regress.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.11.05 @ 3:42 pm
ratso,
Good thing that the winds are changing in NJ. People are getting fed up with Trenton. We need a revolution, like the one we saw in DC in 94. And we just might get it.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 02.11.05 @ 3:46 pm
In everyone of my arguments I try to set a foundation.
You tried to dismiss the foundation I set and then say you are a supporter of AA later. There is no point arguing about your false assertion of what La Shawn’s conclusion was if we can’t even agree on the most basic premises of the story and also our beliefs. Suffice to say your assertion of her conclusion was incorrect (I believe).
Finally, I believe you mix Equal Opportunity with AA. Companies have to obey the law and provide for equal opportunity.
Shake down artist JJ has been at it for over a decade or two making sure that big pockets (Fortune 500 companies) understand that they will be targeted if they don’t do more than equal opportunity. So using the fact that AA is part of Fortune 500 companies practice doesn’t BOLSTER your point it WEAKENS it.
AA is going down. It isn’t acceptable. It won’t heal. It deepens the divide.
You might’ve been able to argue that it was necessary for awhile but my kids shouldn’t see AA as part of their growing up.
Thanks for trying.
Comment by Baklava — 02.11.05 @ 4:24 pm
White women have received the most benefits of affirmative action. Many conservatives make a quick point of saying this is the case.
Yet, if there were a picture of white women, working for the government, being lazy, an attack on affirmative aciton would not follow.
How am sure about that? Because the credentials of white gov’t workers are rarely, if ever, questioned by the conservative pundits.
Comment by DarkStar — 02.11.05 @ 10:06 pm
We just have a fundamental disagreement on what’s important, DS. I can’t count how many times I’ve told you I don’t care what someone else is doing. What are we doing wrong and how can we fix ourselves? I have zero interest in whether or not white women get affirmative action.
The dignity of blacks is much more important to me.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.11.05 @ 10:11 pm
Actually, Darkstar, most conservatives (and the pundits among them) question the credentials of government employees on general principal.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 02.11.05 @ 10:13 pm
Darkstar and tvd
I disagree with the two of you 99% of the time, but your initial comments on this post are right. This was not a good example to argue against AA. As a long time city worker, the main problems I see are nepotism and the union cronyism that tvd suggested.
Those who think private contractors would be so much better obviously don’t live in Chicago, with the current hired truck scandal being the latest in a long line of scandals in the city of King Daley.
The real solution is probably a combination of hiring private contractors for some things, and making it easier for government workers to be fired if they’re not doing their jobs. Most importantly, both groups must be held accountable.
Comment by seal-lover — 02.11.05 @ 10:47 pm
seal-lover,
when private companies are given contracts by corrupt governments, they are seldom better than the employees of corrupt goverments.
Hmmm. Common denominator…
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 02.12.05 @ 12:05 am
Dark Star wrote, “Yet, if there were a picture of white women, working for the government, being lazy, an attack on affirmative aciton would not follow.”
So let’s take the black out of the discussion: I for one, and I think you will concur, would be highly offended, that should our daughters to chose a career in Govt service, that their promotion is, or perceived to be, based on who they opened their legs to and not on sacrifice and hard work.
This is the effect that AA has on one’s esteem — didn’t get there on brainpower or merit. All too often, blacks and women who succeed find their sucess attributed to some negative trait: color, sex or b****hiness or any combo thereof.
For what it’s worth, the woman I was referring to is white AND just one of many civil servants derisively referred to as having got to where they are now not due to merit or intelligence, rather with their T&A and/or AA.
According to scuttlebutt, the gubmint program management hiring discussion went something like this:
Manager:”This office is all male. We got our black dude, but for our AA quota, we gotta have a woman.”
Supervisor:”Yeah, but does she have any experience?” “Ya know, having to do more with less, the last thing I need is deadweight.”
Manager:”I hear you. Hey, check this out, the first two ladies are at the top of their scale and wanna move up. Also they’re married. The 3rd has lotsa field experience but is a real pain in the kiester.
But I hear that altho Candidate D is about as dumb as they come, she’s recently divorced, willing & I suppose hot enough after a few beers, or at least I’d put a paperbag over her head. Snicker.”
Supervisor:”Well, okay, If I have to chose, I’ll take her. Nudge, nudge.”
Manager:”Good!! That takes care of our AA issue. You gonna break the news to the guys?”
Is that offensive enuff for ya? The problem with AA is that it is an easy 2 x 4 to beat back any demands for accountability by the shiftless and lazy. White males can’t use it, but all other classes of human beings are encouraged to use it by their union.
Comment by Andy — 02.12.05 @ 5:47 am
SCSIwuzzy,
“when private companies are given contracts by corrupt governments, they are seldom better than the employees of corrupt goverments.
Hmmm. Common denominator”
Like I said…King Daley.
Comment by seal-lover — 02.12.05 @ 8:57 am
Of course, the skin color of the lazy person doesn’t matter unless the lazy person is suddenly brought to task and the only excuse for themselves that they can think of is… their skin color.
Comment by RepJ — 02.12.05 @ 11:14 am
The dignity of blacks is much more important to me.
I agree with you here. From my point of view, the workers were just lazy; period. Race should have not been a factor. There was no reason to make it a factor. So, I “spoke up” on what I saw was unnecessary.
question the credentials of government employees on general principal.
Which is something I find troubling. The Pentagon is filled with civilian employees. Same with the CIA, NRO, FBI, etc. Don’t you think the attacks on government employees would make it less likely that highly talented people would want to work there, just making the nation’s job harder?
Those who think private contractors would be so much better obviously don’t live in Chicago
Or live near the D.C. contractor beltway.
only excuse for themselves that they can think of is their skin color.
I find it interesting that most people have no clue as to how many times people make a complaint vs move on. The last time I checked, age discrimination complaints were greater than racial complaints. But people keep putting race in the equation based on “trueisms” that ain’t.
Comment by DarkStar — 02.12.05 @ 11:37 am
Darkstar,
I agree with you, that race is a secondary factor in this, at best. A black, latino, white, asian etc with a work ethic is not attracted to a govt job, and if they do take one, won’t stay there very long.
While there are good people in govt service, perception (and often reality) is that there are plenty of bad seeds in every agency. It’s the nature of bizzantine agencies.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 02.12.05 @ 12:01 pm
Around The Blogosphere In 80 Seconds #18
The superty duper edition in the continuing saga of interesting and thought provoking news from around the web. There’s sure to be something you’ve missed around the blogosphere. See if you can get through these in under 80 seconds –…
Trackback by Diggers Realm — 02.12.05 @ 12:43 pm
SCSI, I agree. Why would anyone with any measure of a work ethic and the talent want to get a Civil Service job, unless it was on an upper management track, when you can be more effective as a contractor instead. A big portion of what ails the gubmint sector are the unions. The best tool for incrementaly prying their gnarled fingers away is to A-76 them — outsourcing out all non-core goverment funtions.
The unions are an archaic & parasitic legacy that struggles to be relevant and only wind up adding cost w/o adding value. This is another reason why we need at least 65% congressional conservatives in the next election round or two to finally break the backs of unions. Until we do that, we can never really make progress in downsizing the govt.
Comment by Andy — 02.12.05 @ 12:49 pm
Andy,
Heh. A Roosevelt is remembered as the trust-buster. You think a Bush will be known as the union buster?
Of course, this will be more proof of his evil, to the left. Actus?
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 02.12.05 @ 1:34 pm
You got it. The unions knew it and threw their weight behind sKerry. Alas, for them it wasn’t enough.
I just hope that Rove made the right bet in making Dean the chairman of the Donkeys. HeeHaw
Comment by Andy — 02.13.05 @ 2:20 am
I’m reading Joseph Farah’s book “Taking America Back” right now, and he (founder of WorldNetDaily) says that (most) conservatives today are almost as guilty as liberals of America’s problems today. So what if liberals cry “racism”? What bearing does that have on the matter? 51% of the country voted for Bush. Why do we have to listen to a word the Democrats say? Let them cry “Racism!” all they want! Who cares?
Comment by Shayne White — 02.13.05 @ 6:32 pm
i grew up in smalltown idaho. my dad always said that thanks to the inefficiency of government you’ll always see one highway truck and 5 or 6 guys with shovels in the back. and that’s what i see! in our state there is no department more inept and over funded than the highway department and our county is particularly incompetent. one of my best friends just took an engineering job there and they drive her crazy with the bs, incompetent managers and engineers, and their good-ole-boy dinking around. why did those guys waste time and play cards? because they can.
Comment by bookjunkie — 02.14.05 @ 9:36 pm