When will they ever learn? You may be able to force people to associate with different races and “cultures” in the workplace, especially government workplaces, but you can’t force people to play PC games with their children.
Reasonable parents in Lexington, Nebraska, are snatching their kids out of government schools there and enrolling them in schools farther away. Why? Because poor and poor English-speaking students are driving down academic standards. The article isn’t explicit, but it doesn’t take a Ph.D. to figure it out. Liberal superintendent Dick Eisenhauer is wringing his hands over such non-politically correct (rational) behavior:
Dick Eisenhauer is tired of watching white families take their children out of the schools in his Nebraska district and enroll them in smaller, outlying ones where there are virtually no poor or Hispanic students.Like many of Nebraska’s school systems, the Lexington district where Eisenhauer is superintendent has seen an influx of Hispanics, largely because of jobs at the meatpacking plants, and an accompanying exodus of white students to public elementary schools just outside town.
And there is nothing Eisenhauer can do about it. Nebraska law allows students to switch schools without giving a reason. (Source)
So what does our government do in order to coerce its citizens into doing what they don’t want to do? Create another law, of course!
[T]he state Legislature, which is considering a bill to thwart what some say amounts to legal segregation in the schools.The proposal would force the outlying elementary-only schools to merge with larger kindergarten-through-12th-grade districts. That could mean the closing of the smaller schools. (Emphasis added)
This is why I strongly encourage people who care more about their children’s education and less about charges of “racism” and what others think to take their kids out of government schools now.
Do what you have to do. Sacrifice whatever it takes to send your kids to private schools or homeschool them yourself. You cannot win in this scenario. Government has been exercising and abusing its raw power since forced integration was codified into law 40 years ago.
Right-thinking families continue to flee government schools when the concentration of low achieving students (in this case, poor English-speaking) becomes too great. Known as “white flight,” this phenomenon is frowned upon, and as usual, liberals think coercion is in order.
I don’t blame these parents one bit. The only problem is that if you send your kid to a government school, you’re limited in what you can change. Government social engineering is ingrained; it knows no other way to operate. You’re better off surrendering and sending your kids as far away from the fray as you can get. If you can’t afford private schools, opt for homeschooling. The most frustrating part, I imagine, is that homeschool and private school parents still pay for government schools.
If you want to know what I think of “integration,” read these posts: The Unconstitutionality of Brown v. Board of Education, The Irony of Brown v. Board of Education.
People may be shocked about my opinions on this topic and express confusion (dismay?) that a black person would have anything positive to say about “white flight.” In supporting these families’ decisions to seek higher-performing amd better schools with little or no Hispanics or low-achieving students, I’m hoping to send a strong message.
I don’t think anyone should be forced to experiment with their children’s education to satisfy the misplaced guilt of liberal white social engineers, especially the ones who send their own kids to private schools.
Update: Homeschooled kids beat Oxford Brits.
David Fitzsimmons on Homeschooling
David Fitzsimmons (phone: 520.573.4234 fax: 520.573.4141) of the Arizona Daily Star, has published the following editorial cartoon.
Kirkcentric, rather than getting upset, fights back with a cartoon of his own. Check it out.
Natalie West Cri…
Trackback by Myopic Zeal — 02.22.05 @ 8:38 am
Is there a law that prevents the minority children from changing to the outlying schools? If there is not, then there is not what “amounts to legal segregation in the schools”.
Comment by Ralph — 02.22.05 @ 8:44 am
There’s no law to prevent parents from doing anything, which is why the state is considering creating one out of thin air. You can’t force whites to send their kids to school to low performing schools, so they’ll close the schools there kids are in, which will leave them little choice but to have their kids in schools with low performing students!
That’s why I suggest the parents and ALL Christian parents, regardless of color, to homeschool their kids if they can’t afford private schools.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.22.05 @ 9:07 am
First, I agree. Second, I can only sympathize with the storm that’s coming after this post.
But, A) you’re right. B) you love ticking off the left by being right, and saying it
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 02.22.05 @ 9:11 am
It will be great when all those home-schooled kids who don’t know their arses from a hole in the ground go to the grocery store and buy a pound of hamburger for six bucks because all the meat-packing families moved some place with better schools.
I’m stunned at the way people will cut their own throats to avoid issues. What kind of ridiculous idiocy is it to blame THE STUDENTS when a school is doing poorly? Do those kids design the programs and curriculum? Do they hire the teachers and determine their salaries?
The only people doing any segregating here are very ignorant white parents. They should be recalling their school boards and firing their superintendents. If we’re going to run away from first-generation laboring families, we might as well burn every bit of history of this country, or just shoot ourselves in the face - same result but faster.
The whole premise of this post is uncharacteristically (20 letters!) bad. La Shawn, you are made of sterner stuff.
Comment by Neal — 02.22.05 @ 9:45 am
LaShawn
I understand what’s going on and why, but I have a question about what’s going to happen to those who are left in the system.
There’s an implication to the notion that “poor and poor English-speaking students are driving down academic standards.” It’s not the students who are driving them down, it’s the administrators and teachers.
I grew up in the poorest part of inner city Boston and it was “assumed” that because I was poor I, and others like me, were less able to learn, etc. The reality was that I was every bit as good as anyone from the “better” neighborhoods. It took me a while, but I proved it. I graduated 12th in my high school class of over 700, I graduated “with high distinction” in the honors program from college, I received a masters degree with a 3.4.
I’m saying all this not to tout myself, but to debunk the myth that the poor or minorities are the problem. If folks propogate that type of thinking I say it’s the worst kind of race and class baiting.
Now I’m years removed from the classroom, but I’ve had the opportunity to host a foreign exchange student for a year and occasionally judge debates, scholar bowls, etc here where I live. What I’ve seen that is interesting is that it is the minorities, particularly the Hispanics, who really value education. I also saw a young exchange student from Moldova (a very, very poor country) excel in the classroom. I can recall how teachers over and over would tell me and Nancy that they needed more students like her.
I’ll say it one last time. It’s not the poor and the minorities who are dragging this all down. A good part of it is found in the administration. And the elitism I see isn’t helping a bit to solve the problem.
Comment by Phil Dillon — 02.22.05 @ 9:46 am
This is why my wife and I continue in debt, to ensure that my 11-year-old son can attend a private Christian school rather than the sub-sub-sub-standard public middle school he would attend otherwise.
I’ll get a second job stocking shelves before my child will go back to public school.
Comment by Ernest S. — 02.22.05 @ 9:48 am
La Shawn, seriously, this is a messed up post on a site full of great posts, the best thing you could do is just take it down and pretend it never happened.
I knew you’d end up going too far. NOBODY tells me what to do on MY blog. Goodbye. - Admin
Comment by Neal — 02.22.05 @ 9:53 am
It’s not the students who are driving them down, it’s the administrators and teachers.
Whether it’s admins and teachers driving down stardards or pupils themselves, I certainly wouldn’t subject my kids to nonsensically inane social experiments, and I wouldn’t suggest others do so.
The point cannot be missed! Parents who care about their kids will ALWAYS try to do what is best for them, regardless of our own personal stories of how we grew up.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.22.05 @ 10:05 am
Have you ever taught school Neal? The system is so completely broken no amount of firings would do any good. Public schools have a hard time keeping enough teachers as it is. I don’t think La Shawn is blaming the students at all. And the point is that parents have to actually do something for their kids to make sure they get a good education. In schools that perform poorly I guarantee that the performance has more to do with lack of parental involvement than anything else. When you are teaching 30 kids who are struggling, it is nearly impossible to give them all the individual attention they need. Parents HAVE TO be able to help at home, its their job. When parents don’t make themselves available or they simply don’t have time because they are single and they have to work two jobs to keep the family afloat 9 times out of 10 children will fail or do poorly in school. So who do you blame? The teachers? Come on, they have to work 10-12 hour days just to fill out their paperwork, create lesson plans and grade papers. I think when you do the math they get paid less than minimum wage for the hours they work. Its a labor of love to teach, don’t blame the teachers. You don’t have to blame anyone really–if you are a parent you fight for your kids and you try to give them the best education you can. Thats it.
Comment by Jessicarrot — 02.22.05 @ 10:06 am
That school district is taking a pin-headed approach, which in my view does more to explain the flight of smart parents than the presence of poor and hispanic children. The presence of children of migrant workers need not be an impediment to the learning of other children. The State of California has significant recent success in bringing hispanic children up to speed. There are specific techniques that work with young children to teach them language skills quickly.
Comment by Valerie — 02.22.05 @ 10:13 am
LaShawn
I’m not advocating social experiments. My real questions are (1) What do the “poor” do in the face of this? They don’t have the resources and I honestly doubt that they would be welcomed into the home schooling arena with open arms or if they were allowed to enter there is, it seems to me, a built in prejudice against their being able to perform up to the “standards” the rest of us see as critical. And question two is how can we improve the education kids are getting without devolving into the elitism I perceive in this.
I’m trying to honestly ask the questions, not stir up contention. I hope you can see this from my track record over the months and from other comments that I’m not alone in how I feel.
One last question. Is it wrong for me to think that the folks who are good enough to cut the cows that we eat to have the benefit of a good education like the rest of us?
Comment by Phil Dillon — 02.22.05 @ 10:20 am
As far as the public can afford it, I think government schools should be the best they can be. But Phil, should the government force people together by closing the outlying facilities? Why not IMPROVE the low performing schools and give the people a reason to return? Why subject EVERYBODY to lower standards because it seems like a “fair” or “kind” thing to do?
I think this is a LOSING argument because our government basically has the power to do whatever the heck it wants. That is why I urge parents with the means to opt for private schooling; if not, a reasonably intelligent person can educate his own kids WAY better than a government school can.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.22.05 @ 10:34 am
When edumacation elites insist on rejecting proven teaching methods and flop for feel-good techniques such as whole language, the overal standard falls. Think of the principal in Rockford Illinois that was fired for producing results using Fed funds to apply direct instruction.
Professor Plum’s Relentless Rants on Eduquackery is a blog dedicated to fisking idiots who think it’s ok to ruin our children and consequently our future with self-serving junk science.
http://professorplum.typepad.com/my_weblog/
Comment by Andy — 02.22.05 @ 10:34 am
La Shawn,
Socialists don’t want to compete,
they just want to defeat. Better that all sink together than some swim to safety.
Comment by Andy — 02.22.05 @ 10:39 am
LaShawn
I agree that the schools should be improved, but while I understand that some of these social experiments are foolish and that abandoning them is very attractive, it still doesn’t solve the problem for those who are left behind.
To me this is an issue with two dimenstions. One is that the schools are failing. There’s no doubt about it. The other is the perception of who is causing the problem. It’s not the “poor” or “disadvantaged” or whatever eupemism is being used these days.
Why is it important to me? Ask the folks who are abandoning these people how they would feel if they were the ones being left behind to deal with the unfixed problems.
While I can’t speak for all the poor, I believe it’s fair to say that most are not looking for kindness (although I admit it does seem to me that a bit more of it on our public discourse wouldn’t be too bad). They’re looking for opportunity, not kindness or a handout.
To be honest, I think it would be far easier to fix the logistics of this mess than it would be to fix the perceptions that swirl all around the problem.
I’d like to think we could do better, but maybe I’m just an old fool chasing windmills.
Comment by Phil Dillon — 02.22.05 @ 10:54 am
Parents have the obligation to do what they believe is best for their children.
Comment by DarkStar — 02.22.05 @ 10:55 am
Phil - What does “kindness” have to do with someone wanting to give their kids a decent education? I frankly don’t care whose fault it is. The focus should be on improving the bad schools and not forcing other kids to attend bad schools. How did this backward thinking seep into out culture?
It is fine to want to improve things. That is what makes America great, but American education is no longer great. With illegal, non-English speaking aliens flooding the country and sending their non-English speaking to our already drained schools…I won’t even go into to what they doing to our health care system. That’s another post.
You’re not an old fool. You just don’t want anyone to be left behind. Neither do I, but theory should not trump practicality and common sense. Improve the schools and give people INCENTIVES to come back.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.22.05 @ 11:04 am
LaShawn,
Reading this post has just made me cheer outloud. I’m a sophmore in the Teacher Ed program. Instead of teaching me the best ways to handle a classroom and the duties of a teacher, I’m forced to take a multiculturalism [read: liberal brainwashing] class. Which only teaches me how evil I am because I’m a white female. Our school system is broken but our colleges are not preparing our teachers to teach, only coddle. I decided to go into teaching, but I have no desire to work in a public school. I want to either work in a private school, or find a neighborhood and start a collective homeschooling system.
Sorry I’ve babbled, but I just wanted to thank you for putting this out there.
Comment by Alli — 02.22.05 @ 11:06 am
La Shawn,
Like Michelle Malkin says, Reason #2821985 for home schooling your children.
Part of the problem is both parents and teachers who expect less of poor children. Check out Ruby Payne if you want to get your blood pressure boiling on that subject.
I wonder if they are putting great numbers of non-English speaking students in classrooms with English speaking students. How annoying would it be to be in a classroom where the teacher has to repeat everything she/he says in another language and the class isn’t about learning a foreign language!
But I think the scarier issue is how the legislature is reacting to the situation. Writing another law to close down small schools? How about throwing the baby out with the bath water?
Comment by RepJ — 02.22.05 @ 11:08 am
La Shawn,
So I’m sure you’ve read I just started a job as a substitute teacher. In the three weeks I’ve been working I’ve been witness to a huge amount of stuff that has opened my eyes to the public education system in this country.
I live in Wilmington, Del., an area with a large minority population. I’ve subbed at both inner-city schools and smaller, more suburban schools. And here’s my report. Phil Dillion’s comments above regarding Hispanics hits the nail on the head. Of all minority groups, the DESIRE to learn is most embedded in their brains. My aunt, an elementary school teacher, also concurs.
Now, as a student not too far removed from his high school years, the one driving thing that was spoken of during those years was ACCOUNTABILITY. Parent accountability. I know you like talking about PC BS La Shawn, so I hope you’ll agree with this.
While educators and administrators deserve their portion of the blame, in this politically correct society too often teachers are AFRAID or feel it isn’t their place to call on the parents who are screwing up the lives of their children.
I am a white liberal unafraid to say that most of the students with problems in my school district are African-American. There, I said it. The sad truth is I am a 22-year old man. I’ve subbed for students whose parents are YOUNGER than me!
Teachers and administrators have this notion that they have no right to enter the homelife. Perhaps there is some truth to this. But the screwed up home lives of these poor kids (all races) is seriously affecting the learning environment of others whose choice it is to participate in vigorous learning activity.
So, I submit to you the idea that the real failure isn’t so much the teachers and administrators as it is the parents who fail to a)enforce learning, b)show enthusiasm with their children and c)are too unintelligent themselves to grasp the seriousness of the whole issue.
Teachers deserve their blame. But the politically correct BS spewed to protect parents from any blame is sickening.
OK, so I strayed off topic a bit…but I hope I contributed something.
Comment by Mike M. — 02.22.05 @ 11:17 am
LaShawn
We’re in agreement that the schools need to be fixed. I think, as I said before, that the logistics would be the easy part. It’s the perception. I’m not so old and naive to think that the folks abandoning these schools would come back even if they were fixed. I’m not naive enough to think that the parents of the kids who are moving on would ever get together with the parents of the “poor” and say something like “Let’s get together and fix this for all our benefit.”
Yes, good education is driving part of this debate around the country, but there are other things driving it as well. That’s the difficult part to fix and until it does the easy part won’t.
Comment by Phil Dillon — 02.22.05 @ 11:19 am
Why is it perceived that these poor,immigrant kids and their parents are being “left behind”? As Miss Barber pointed out, any person of reasonable intelligence can do a far better job than government schools. With that said, lets not assume that these poor families are not intelligent enough to know when their getting a bad rap. Being poor is not an excuse for accepting low standards. If these “poor” hispanic families want better education they will do the same as the white families and put their children into better schools or homeschool their children themselves(contrary to popular belief, it is not just rich, Christian families doing this).
While it may be white families moving away, does that necessarily mean that these same families are rich also? Making this about race or poverty only subverts the real issue here, that we have poorly run, substandard, government schools.
The questions that should be answered and debated should have nothing to do with race or class, i.e., why is the state looking to pass a new law to stifle the rights and liberties of these families rather than look at the cause of their flight?
Comment by Jerry McClellan — 02.22.05 @ 11:24 am
Utopia is unattainable. That is why communism doesn’t work.
We’d ALL like for nobody to be left behind but it takes effort, hard work and initiative otherwise the society as a whole FAILS and then we’re ALL left behind for some dictator to conquer. Great Utopia there.
If you have a school system where people of like minded spirit can’t pull ahead and succeed then you will have despair.
If you have an economic system where hard working people’s labor is diminished by taking from them and giving to those who do nothing (ala communism) then the economy is doomed to failure.
People must realize something about the human spirit. Capitalism (definition = the people choosing who gets what resources) and school choice (as exercised previously by Nebraskans) is what makes for excellency. The tide rises and lifts all boats. You can do more good by taxing a 10 trillion dollar economy at a tax rate of 10% than by taxing a 1 trillion dollar economy at 50% and the good will of the people will be higher as well.
I will post Nebraska data from Heritage.org in my next post.
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 11:26 am
NEBRASKA
State Profile (Updated April 2004)
School Choice Status
Public school choice: Interdistrict/mandatory
State constitution: Blaine amendment and compelled-support language
Charter school law: No
Publicly funded private school choice: No
Privately funded school choice: Yes
Home-school law: Low regulation
Ranking on the Education Freedom Index (2001): 18th out of 50 states
K-12 Public Schools and Students (2001-2002)
Public school enrollment: 285,022
Students enrolled per teacher: 13.6
Number of schools (2000-2001): 1,296
Number of districts: 534
Current expenditures: $2,150,954,000
Current per-pupil expenditure: $7,547
Amount of revenue from the federal government: 5.5%
K-12 Public School Teachers (2001-2002)
Number of teachers: 21,004
Average salary: $36,236
K-12 Private Schools (1999-2000)
Private school enrollment: 42,141
Number of schools: 237
Number of teachers: 2,963
K-12 Public and Private School Student Academic Performance
ACT weighted rank (2001): 5th out of 26 states
ALEC Academic Achievement Ranking: 10th out of 50 states and the District of Columbia
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 11:29 am
Those In Charge at the education departments around this country need to get it into their heads that the purpose of an education infrastructure is not to resolve economic class conflicts or do social experimentation. It is to equip students with the tools they need to think for themselves as free people. There is a grave danger of the entire educational system in this country, including higher education (and not just public higher education either), lapsing into a backwater of mediocrity because of the failure to apprehend this basic fact.
I am a prof in the mathematics department at a small college where the majority of our majors are pre-service math teachers. Two things I have noticed:
(1) The education majors on our campus are increasingly becoming safe havens for the students who can’t succeed at anything else. The really good students are still there training to become teachers, but they are more and more being surrounded by ed majors who were brought up in a K-12 environment of their own that was academically weak and focussed instead on the PC trend of the month.
(2) As a result of (1), the really good students who are training to be teachers are getting out of the education business before they get in. One of the brightest students I’ve had in my career, a math education major, changed her major to pure math precisely because she said her experiences in the field made her realize that she’d never be able to do what she really wanted to do — which is teach math. Talk about a chilling thing to think about.
(3) As I said, private higher ed is not immune. I’m at a private college and the majority of our students come from public high schools, and their basic intellectual abilities have gotten really bad quite recently. They are good people and have good intentions, but the public schools have simply not equipped them to succeed at a college that has even a modicum of real academic standards. And this comes after they’ve been implicitly told that graduation from high school implies success in college.
I don’t think the urgency of the problems with our schools can be overstated.
Comment by Robert — 02.22.05 @ 11:35 am
Duh, make that THREE things. You know how these math profs are.
Comment by Robert — 02.22.05 @ 11:38 am
Modern Day MinuteMen (for those of you Monday morning readers) is also a must read of La Shawn’s…
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 11:46 am
Here’s another issue, though, that has gotten only partial play in the media. This winter, Tyson closed many of its rural meatpacking plants for 4-5 weeks. I have been told by people in one of those towns that the Mexican students were taken out of school during that time as a vacation.
So what happens when the Mexican students return? Will the teachers be expected to teach subjects over to accommodate those students? Will the administrators in that town chose the families who don’t value education over the families that do? If I were a teacher, I would hand all of the children their missed work and move on, however, will the administrators allow that to happen or are they as willfully blind as their counterparts in Lexington?
I know a family that drove their children one hour each way to school to avoid a terrible rural public school. They were in the school district for one year before deciding to opt out. Their children’s learning didn’t just stagnate in the public school, it was already behind what the children were learning in a previous school.
La Shawn suggests that families should do what they can to send their children to private schools or to home school them. But that shouldn’t have to be an option. These families are paying property taxes for schools that don’t work whether their children are in them or not. Taxpayers should be able to demand that the schools teach their children, and if that means placing poor performing children in separate classrooms, so be it.
For years, administrators have practiced “inclusion,” the process of including children with learning disabilities (whether from a genetic condition, bad behavior or from an inability to speak english) with regular performing children. This is done to protect the feelings of children who are different. The problem is that these children disrupt the classroom. Often these children have aides to help them (many school districts label children so they can get federal aid for aides).
Now the Lexington school district and state legislators, who don’t recognize the damage inclusion has caused are trying to force inclusion on people who know better. All they will do is cause those families, who had remained in Lexington, to move away.
Comment by Meg — 02.22.05 @ 11:54 am
You’re right, Meg. Private or homeschools shouldn’t be necessary. It’s very unfair. Decent working people are supporting indecent public schools. The government in teaching PC tripe in these schools, and level-headed parents flee, taking their tax dollars with them. The government coerces these parents do return to the indecent schools.
It’s madness!
Comment by La Shawn — 02.22.05 @ 11:58 am
La Shawn wrote, ” It’s very unfair. ”
Communism is unfair. Liberals don’t care about that. They care about no other result but making sure that nobody is ahead of others because to them that would be unfair.
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 12:02 pm
Baklava
I’m not advocating utopia, just opportunity. There’s a difference.
Second, your stats seem to prove, rather than disprove the viability of Nebraska’s schools. I really don’t believe that’s true, just that the stats are misplaced. I’m also a registered capitalist if there is such a thing. I worked hard for forty some odd years and love the system. And I’m a conservative to boot.
Look, guys, I’m with you all. THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS NEED TO BE FIXED! I can’t state it any more clearly.
But I’m not feeling warm and fuzzy about this. The flight assumption seems to be saying that the folks who will be left behind in this mess will stay because they are satisfied with the status quo. It seems to be saying that the ones who REALLY want improvement leave and those who don’t stay.
I say let’s fix the problem. Let me ask some questions. Would you want “these folks” in your schools? It seems to me from the commentary that there are a lot of folks who wouldn’t under any circumstances. They’re the folks who are flooding in, taking jobs, robbing resources.
I suspect there are some grains of truth here. But that doesn’t solve the problem. There are probably more options, but I can think of two off hand. One, ship ‘em all back to where they came from and then we can all get back to being noble, enlightened citizens like we were before they came. Or, two, we can find some mechanism to fix the problem for US and THEM.
I hate to say it, but in the discourse I’ve read this morning there seems to be little appetite to find a way for THEM.
Comment by Phil Dillon — 02.22.05 @ 12:12 pm
The Government is NOT Your Friend
La Shawn Barber talks about the public schools in Nebraska that are failing. The state legislature responds by forcing parents
Trackback by Isaac Schrödinger — 02.22.05 @ 12:15 pm
Baklava,
good citation, only thing missing is the ratio of admins to students and their piece of the economic pie.
It would also indicate that Nebraskans had it “good” and now activists are moving in to take them down a few notches. This they will do until all schools from coast to coast are equally bad.
Comment by Andy — 02.22.05 @ 12:25 pm
“Had it good” is right. There’s nowhere to run, nowhere to hide in America anymore. The invasion has begun.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.22.05 @ 12:27 pm
Phil,
You say let’s fix the problem. I don’t know anyone who is saying let’s NOT fix the problem.
I think what we are saying Phil is that Nebraska is going the WRONG way in fixing the problem. They will be exacerbating the problem.
There will be:
1) Flight from Nebraska
2) Lower scores in Nebraska. Heritage had a education freedom index for Nebraska ranked at 18 of 50 and scores showing 10 of 50. I predict that the scores will go down from 10 of 50 to 20 of 50 within a decade if this nonsense keeps up.
We as conservatives Phil are always trying to FIX something. We are ALWAYS interested in RESULTS. This is why we differ from Liberals (where results don’t matter- generalizing of course).
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 12:54 pm
Phil wrote, “there seems to be little appetite to find a way for THEM.”
There is a way for THEM. Unfortunately that wasn’t what we were discussing. We were critiqueing Nebraska’s proposed changes which would be the wrong way.
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 12:57 pm
Baklava,
In the words of your hero…”There you go again…”
Comment by Mike M. — 02.22.05 @ 1:09 pm
Baklava
I take it then that leaving the public schools instead of fighting the beaurocrats is the answer.
It’s a good thing I’m not in charge, because I wouldn’t allow it. I’d take the whole mess, the beaurocrats, the teachers, the parents (including the “interlopers”) and throw the mess right in the middle of them and tell them to “fix it.”
And a solution that blames the communists, liberals, and the “shiftless” in our midst is no solution.
I’d honestly like to believe that, but the further this discussion goes the less inclined I am to think that a solution is possible under these circumstances.
Comment by Phil Dillon — 02.22.05 @ 1:22 pm
I must teach close to Mike M. from above. The Wilmington, DE desegregation plan, started in 1978 and lifted officially in ‘96 (but still essentially remains in effect as no affected district has done any significant rearranging), didn’t do anything to increase inner-city minority academic achievement. Both [local] blacks and whites acknowledge this. But hey — the schools are more diverse than they were ….
Now, my district — in hopes of raising minority academic performance — has hired a “diversity consultant” to teach [white] teachers about their latent racism and white privilege.
‘Round and ’round it goes ….
Comment by Dave Huber — 02.22.05 @ 1:25 pm
There I go again making sense and telling the truth.
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 1:26 pm
Phil wrote, “I take it then that leaving the public schools instead of fighting the beaurocrats is the answer. ”
That’s what the parents of students are doing…..
The bureaucrats are trying to mandate the WRONG answer to the symptom.
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 1:27 pm
Dave,
I didn’t know deseg was lifted in 1996. If this is correct, then I do see a huge difference…at least in the Red Clay School District.
Due to bussing, I went to an inner-city elementary school. A school I loved. There was a pleasant mix of races and everything seemed to be swell (of course I was only 8 at the time!). I subbed at the SAME school last week and it is now a “neighborhood” school with a 90% African-American population.
I walked up to one of my former teachers and said: “I don’t EVER remember it being this bad.”
And my teacher agreed. In many cases the whole “neighborhood” schools thing seems to have failed because it excessively concentrates failure.
I believe it’s fair to say that many of these inner-city schools (read: minority) are failing. Deseg certainly didn’t help that school as a whole. It only made it a place where failure thrives.
Nice to know someone else from Delaware is here to chat with, Dave.
Also, Dave…I would like to read more about this program in which white teachers are taught “about their latent racism.” This sounds intriguing.
Comment by Mike M. — 02.22.05 @ 2:39 pm
Baklava,
At least you ave me a smile that time! Back atcha!
Comment by Mike M. — 02.22.05 @ 2:40 pm
A correction to my post above about the family that switched schools. This family drove their children 1/2 hour for them to catch a bus for a one hour ride to school. All this to avoid the public schools in Garden City, Kansas in favor of a school in Ingalls, Kansas. In Garden City their 5th grade son was in school with children who were reading at a 2nd grade level. Their daughter was in 7th grade and attending school with Mexican young men who had been held back so many times they had facial hair and were fondling the girls in the classroom. The mother said the situation was no different than dropping her 12 year-old daughter off at the local bar.
In Ingalls, they found a school that met their needs and provided a safe environment for their children. The mother noted that there was also a Mexican family who made the commute in order to improve their children’s lives. This couple worked alternating shifts at the meatpacking plant. The mother was educated through sixth grade in Mexico, the father did not have a formal education. To them, it was very important for their children to speak english and be educated. As is the case in Lexington, Nebraska, people are seeking out better alternatives. No one is preventing anyone from doing so until now. Meaning if a Mexican couple wants to leave the Lexington schools for something better they can, too. People aren’t necessarily deserting the schools because of racial issues, as the Lexington school superintendent implies, but rather they are fleeing those who do not value a good education. Couching it in racial terms is a dishonest way to gain favor for a bad idea and displace blame for the adminstrator’s lack of good judgment.
Comment by Meg — 02.22.05 @ 2:55 pm
Mike M: Yes, Red Clay has strayed the farthest from the deseg. boundaries out of the four big NCC districts. That’s true. However, the other three really haven’t done much (I know Brandywine, for instance, fought to keep boundaries the same even with the Neighborhood Schools law).
I was in 8th grade in a county school when deseg. started. I’m now back in teaching in one of these schools. It’s like “Welcome Back Kotter.”
If you want to read more about the program our district is implementing about latent white racism and white privilege, search my site under “Glenn Singleton.” Heck, even a Google search using his name will take you to his overall program (but w/o my colorful commentary, of course!). You mentioned that you were a liberal; I’ve been contacted by teachers across the country about this guy’s “program,” many of whom are admitted liberals (one writes for the left-of-center Crooked Timber website), and they are incensed about this dude’s charlantry. Not only does it not address minority academic achievement, it’s just full of the tired old clichés and postive stereotypes about minorities; just don’t contrast any with negative stereotypes when/if you inquire about the whole notion of “group think” or “group behavior,” ’cause then you’ll be manifesting your latent racism!
Feel free to e-mail me, too. My address is on my website.
Comment by Dave Huber — 02.22.05 @ 3:33 pm
Phil, you said let’s stop pointing fingers and throw the parties into one room and fix it. This would be good, if half the teachers were competent.
I urge you to
1) Don’t misconstrue our criticism as callous overreaction and/or contempt for the victims. Altho we may not spell out all the details, most who have been following the issue at any depth know and understand the underlying contributing factors to the decay.
2) To bring yourself up to speed, go to the Professor Plum’s website and read up on what our teachers are being taught. I’m sure that if you even read 5 of his posts, you will be asking yourself “why let any adherents from this school of thot anywhere near our kids”. It is that bad. Not, I’m not saying all, nor most teachers are bad, just enough of bad apples to ruin the overall outcome — this is the result of efforts over the decades to trivailize and degrade education with hi-faluting ideas of social reconstruction.
As Meg said, it is not about race. If it were, then Federick Douglass, George Washington Carver and all of the minority notables over the history of our country would not have accomplished what they did, let alone dare to dream it. Kids don’t need to “learn” more diversity sensitivity, they need to learn more critical thinking.
Comment by Andy — 02.22.05 @ 3:34 pm
This may be OT, but why are they importing Hispanics(Mexicans) all the way to Nebraska to work in a meat packing plant? Where are the locals? Meat packing plants have been around a long time, who worked in them before and how long ago did this practice begin.Are the wages too low to attract Americans?
Comment by Tom — 02.22.05 @ 3:37 pm
Tom, see what I wrote on the “Modern Day minutemen” post for my explanation.
Illegal immigrants being used as a “reason” why is scandalous and immoral to me.
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 3:39 pm
Andy
I see it here again. It’s defeatism. Appsrently incompetent teachers can trump the public’s willingness to fix the problems.
Look, I understand that any fix wouldn’t be easy. In fact it will be very difficult. But I do not see abandoning the public schools as a fix. It is for some, it’s not for all.
And look, I’m sixty two, well beyond the point that I cannot see what’s going on under the surface of all this. Do you guys think I’m really blind? Of course there’s bias against the Hispanics. Read throught the commentary. It’s the Hispanic with facial hair that drove someone away. It’s the way they’re flooding the system. Etc, etc, etc. Am I supposed to believe that we anglos are the victims here? Am I supposed to believe that the forms of sexual harrasment, etc are exclusivley Hispanic? I’m around these farm and ranch kids and the children of doctors and lawyers around here enough to know that the problem isn’t exclusively Hispanic.
And I’d be willing to bet that folks here wouldn’t be rushing out to change schools if some anglo did the same thing the Hispanic with facial hair did. They would demand that the problem get fixed. I’d even bet they would lay claim to the fact that “this is our school,” rather than abandon it.
Now you can tar and feather me if you like. You can try to strip me of my conservative credentials. I still maintain that there’s a streak of elitism in this that I don’t like.
All I’ve heard so far is that I don’t understand and that the problem can’t be fixed. Really? Have we gotten so enlightened that we can figure out how to run away from a problem, leave something worse in its wake, and call that a fix? That’s turning enlightenment on its head as far as I’m concerned.
Comment by Phil Dillon — 02.22.05 @ 3:52 pm
Phil wrote, “Appsrently incompetent teachers can trump the public’s willingness to fix the problems.”
Phil, again, it is the beaurocrats proposed solution that is being called in question here. Do you even know if Nebraska has an ability to put “propositions” on the ballot? The people of the state give enough taxes to spend $7,547 per student and YET even though they are giving that much the schools in SPECIFIC areas are not performing well enought that THOSE PARENTS want to MOVE THEIR CHILDREN to another school.
NOW, the rule makers want to make it illegal for those parents to flee the school and you are looking at it backwards.
WE are calling into question the rule makers ability to make the RIGHT solution. You should be too because their proposed solution will make the education in that state go lower from 10 out of 50 states to 20 out of 50 states.
Please read this 10 times so that I can avoid you saying “all I’ve heard so far is that the problem can’t be fixed”. We are discussing the proposed rule change not how to fix the problem. If you would like to get into that fix maybe you can look at all of La Shawn’s writing about illegal immigrants and how they are:
1) hurting our national security
2) hurting Nebraska’s school system
3) filling up 25% of our jails
4) on and on and on….
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 4:10 pm
Baklava
It is “them,” isn’t it?
Thank God it isn’t us. All we need to do is flee from the bad fix and that’ll take care of it.
Thanks. I finally got the answer. It is “them.” That’s all I need to know. I don’t need to look anywhere else. It’s “them.”
That’s better. I feel so much more enlightened now.
Comment by Phil Dillon — 02.22.05 @ 4:36 pm
Phil, the other thing you’re overlooking from your good old days was the fact schools were once under local control. More and more control is being exerted at the State & Federal level by bureaucrats far removed from the scene of the crime. IOW, education is supposd to improve under a one-size fits all scheme designed by sheltered elites up in their ivory towers? I think not.
A good example is the fairly recent decision in Cali to strip away local control and conslidate funding at the State level. The results took less than a year to manifest it self. Equalization was achieved, NOT! The better schools sank and the lousy schools only had more money to sustain their decline in “style”.
What we’re saying is that the last 30 years have been disastous and the elites insist on mo’ money as the solution. It is plain to us that their objective is intellectual serfdom.
On the flip side, they wail and gnash their teeth that India and China are stealing our jobs? Huh? How can that be if we’re spending 10 times what they are per student? How can that be when we practically spend more than ANY other country on a per capital basis?
Comment by Andy — 02.22.05 @ 4:36 pm
Ok Phil, what’s your take on the Rockford, IL brouhaha? This only happened just recently where a sucessful program was dismantled in an inner-city school of which, 90% are hispanic.
An elitist was brought in to coordinate (anything like UN Tsunami coordinators?) the unified curriculum. She did give a whit about the rising test scores in that particular school and demanded that all schools use her personally approved plan. Utimately she forced out the “ringleaders” who, with the solid facts to back it up, begged to differ with her harebrained scheme.
So where is your sense of justice in this regard? If you want a source, here it is — caution, this may cause you to pop a vein and despise the know-nothings intent on destroying our children
http://professorplum.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/01/a_tragedy_well_.html
Comment by Andy — 02.22.05 @ 4:50 pm
I understand that the system is broken. Again, I really must insist on being an old fool. Did you know that there were even problems back in my “good old days?” Now I’m sure there’s a lot we could be faulted for, but I think we tried to fix things. Did we do everything right? No! But we tried. The ones in my generation who didn’t just tripped out on LSD or Annie Green Springs. That really fixed things, didn’t it? I say that abandoning the schools is tantamount to tripping out.
Can this be fixed? I don’t know, but I say it’s worth a real good try.
I wasn’t so sure men could make it to the moon and back in 1965. I wasn’t so sure that I could succeed in life, having been told over and over that my address in the inner city and poverty were cramping everyone else’s style. Well. I made it and while I’m no Bill Gates I beat the street’s expectations.
You’d be amazed what can happen if you try.
Comment by Phil Dillon — 02.22.05 @ 4:54 pm
Again Phil. The proposed solution would make the situation worse. Why can’t we say that without you telling us that we are saying “them” or “we don’t want to fix the issue”.
I don’t see anyone hear saying we don’t want to fix the issue.
I see us all sitting here saying that the proposed solution would make things worse.
You wrote, “You’d be amazed what can happen if you try”. The taxpayers are trying to their represented ability. They are paying OVER $7,500 per pupil and aren’t getting what they pay for in SOME SPECIFIC schools and trying to help THEIR OWN CHILD by moving to a better school.
The proposed solution of disallowing people to move thier kids does not fix the problem but exacerbates and creates new problems. If you don’t like us saying our opinion on the PROPOSED solution then …..
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 5:00 pm
Did you catch that figure, Phil?
$7,500 per pupil these people are paying and it’s still not working. In my humble opinion, private school and homeschooling parents should REVOLT.
But instead, all they want to do is send their kids to better schools, although they throw absurd amounts of money down the government school system toilet.
Are people satisfied with that? NO. They want to break the backs of working Americans, continue flooding the country with illegal aliens and EXPECT Americans to keep their mouths shut and send their kids to atrocious schools!
Unbelievable. If it weren’t so insanely funny (ala The Joker in Batman), I’d cry.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.22.05 @ 5:27 pm
Whew! You make me so happy La Shawn.
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 5:29 pm
Phil, believe me when I congratulate you on beating the odds. Likewise, my parents coming up in the good old-old days also overcame artificial barriers placed in front of them. And, I rather suspect that if you let Mike McConnell of Kokonut Pundit get started, you’ll never really hear the end of it.
Like Baklava was saying, no one is saying don’t fix the system. Unfortunately, the way the powers-that-be, “them” are calling the shots by hook or crook. When citizens say no way, as in the case of Kansas, “they” run to a judge who then ORDERS the legislators to raise taxes to fund more puffery.
Or how about here in Detroit when the school board tries repeatedly to hold hearings behind closed doors? They can spend millions to renovate HQ with wood paneling and state of art computers while kids have to bring toilet paper with them?
Most folks here are venting about the problems they see and what it will take to fix it, but again, our solutions are not what “they” want to hear.
If you’re depending on the MSM to frame the debates, then you’ve effectively limited yourself from learning about the pros & cons of the various POVs.
Comment by Andy — 02.22.05 @ 5:39 pm
Homeschooled students beat oxford students in a debate in london, Homeschool students continue to outperform government run schools. I say Christian parents homeschool your children its not hard, anyway most kids who go through government school end up giving up their Christian beliefs for moral relitivism
Comment by shari — 02.22.05 @ 6:53 pm
See Update on Oxford.
Comment by La Shawn — 02.22.05 @ 6:55 pm
I think Christian education is great. I went to a Christian college and a Christian seminary. But to say that the public schools are causing Christian kids to abandon their faith isn’t as accurate as folks would like to make it all out to be. I have lots of Christian friends who have kids and I hear them complaining about the influence of media, the arts, etc. They send them to Christian schools and then on the weekend they take them out to see the junk they are complaining about. They complain about the profain and coarse culture and then let them buy Eminem. Go figure.
And you know what’s sad. Far too many of the Christian kids I know are every bit as coarse as the people their parents complain about. So it makes me wonder if the kids who are “giving up” their faith for moral relativism didn’t have it to begin with. I’m sure that will make me a marked man.
LaShawn
We all know that the costs shouldn’t be that high. But I’d be willing to bet once more that many of the folks who complain about the cost per student wouldn’t bat an eye over going into hock for a $500,000 house or a Humvee or some other “necessity” they just couldn’t live without. I’ll bet that some are probably paying $7500 a year in interest on their debts.
All I’m hearing is that everyone is furious. Good. But the problem is that no one seems angry enough to fix the problem.
Comment by Phil Dillon — 02.22.05 @ 7:19 pm
Look at the roots: an inequitable funding system based on property taxes, reinforcing income inequalities.
Lack of daycare, so both parents work AND try to care for younger kids while older ones are in school.
A system that depends on immigrant workers for cheap labor, but does not provide for living wages.
Lousy schools are a symptom of an unjust system. So I’m going to try to afford private school for our kids, which is hard for us to afford, and I’ll try to vote for change.
Comment by tubino — 02.22.05 @ 7:53 pm
OK. OK. We are all guilty of not caring Phil. You beat it out of me. Now what is your solution now that we’ve all figured out that the Nebraska legislature’s solution would make more problems and fix none.
And don’t tell the parents of Nebraska to pay more. Tell us what the solution is Phil (instead of beating up others who are just critiqueing the legislatures proposed rule).
Because we know that your caring will really translate into a fixed problem (again forgive me for critiqueing the legislatures proposed rules that will make more problems…)
Comment by Baklava — 02.22.05 @ 10:07 pm
Call me a doomsdayer, but…
This will not be fixed. Just like decaying morals won’t be fixed; neither will the rise of euthanasia and abortion.
The world grows more and more selfish and depraved, and those traits pass to our kids, who fight to lower moral standards in the name of “freedom” and “equality”. Some of them come to their senses, grow up a little, see the problem for what it is, and complain that it needs to be fixed.
A little rough around the edges, but nontheless a good working theory.
When the ship is sinking, jump off. Who cares if the Captain gets offended.
By the way, my kids are homeschooled, and I still have to pay for the rotten public school system in Arizona.
Comment by Jim Price — 02.23.05 @ 1:04 am
Phil wrote, “I take it then that leaving the public schools instead of fighting the beaurocrats is the answer. â€
I don’t have time to wait for them to fix the public school system! It is not in the best interests of my children to have a poor education. The best thing that I can do for my children is to make sure that they get a good education. For me that means sending them to private school. I had to make many sacrifices to send my children to private school. It was a hardship and well worth it.
BTW, at the Lutheran school my children go to there are many low income parents who send their children to this school. They work two jobs and make sacrifices so that their children can get a good education. Also, the school provides grants to those who need it.
Private school isn’t just for the well off but it is for those who care about the quality of education for their children.
When the public school system gets better than private school, then I will send my children to public school. In the mean time, I will not hold my breath.
Comment by Tanny O'Haley — 02.23.05 @ 2:08 am
Bad behaviors and language on the playground and school buses, related to us by our children on a regular basis, is what caused us to move out of our first neighborhood. It was a good move.
I wonder how many of these Nebraska parents moved their children due to poor education or racism, instead of just a poor social environment.
Comment by Jim R — 02.23.05 @ 3:02 am
So I meant to add, to solve the problem as Phil rightly suggests, it would be a good idea for the
schools losing students to contact the families and ask why they moved their kids.
Everything else is just conjecture followed by proposed solutions for the wrong problem.
Comment by Jim R — 02.23.05 @ 3:15 am
Send them to Wisconsin where they can attend a “virtual high school” from their own home, via a laptop.
http://www.wisinfo.com/heraldtimes/news/archive/local_19896757.shtml
Comment by Mike — 02.23.05 @ 8:10 am
I saw a guy on Fox news last night hawking a book suggesting good public school teachers earn $100,000 per year!
Here’s my suggestion. First, Make unionizing of govt. workers illegal! Second, Fire all current public school teachers. Third. Start over, while CAPPING salaries at $30,000 per year.
These part-time baby-sitters have conned us long enough! How smart does one have to be to “teach” children really?
I met a guy from New York whose wife made 90k teaching second graders! They tell us it’s worth it, but look at their “product” over the last decades. Mush-heads! Most teachers I’ve met, allthough polite and “nice”, did not perform well in the private sector. So they attempt to equate private sector economics with the commie-fiction world of public employees. I maintain that our children will be better served by teachers who want to teach kids than by Union predators who use our children as poker chips in their quest for private sector rewards!
Comment by pajamazon — 02.23.05 @ 9:34 am
That’s the hypocrisy of this whole situation. The liberal politicians and “education administrators” who complain don’t send their children to the same schools they claim to be fighting for.
The one thing they can not fathom at all is the sacrifice (as you advise) some parents are willing to take, to make sure their child gets an opportunity to succeed.
Another great post La Shawn.
Comment by Renee — 02.23.05 @ 9:41 am
Geeze guys. Why all the teacher bashing? Would you do their job for the pay, considering everyone they have to satisfy? All the regulators; federal, state, local. The Principal and finally 25 or more parents.
They have limited means to solve significant social problems from breakup of the family unit in this country, which La Shawn is pointing out on her blog on regular basis.
In addition, children really need a stay-at-home parent to help them grow emotionally and take an interest in their schooling. Raising children is a full time job, and not many can afford this no-pay job anymore.
Comment by Jim R — 02.23.05 @ 11:37 am
I think we are avoiding a serious issue here, that is, our “elected” representatives are there not to express the will of the governed, but to push an ideologized social agenda. The wishes of those folk in small-town Nebraska are obvious, for whatever reason. The state legislatures response has been to make the clear intent of the people of Lexington that much more difficult.
Okay, that ought to be obvious by now. But what about the teachers. From wehat I understand, they are as mal-educated as the students they teach. No, not stupid; but mal-educated.
And, I would say, systematically mal-educated, from the cirriculum of “education” majors, teacher’s colleges, and the untested, untried gobbledy-gook that passes for the latest in “educational theory”. This for the purpose of passing on this dumbed-down norm to the children, to create a society of passive sheeple.
Of course, this is being recognized by a growing number of concerned parents, who wisely elect to himeschool. They are then the subject of snotty editorial cartoons that suggest that homeschoolers, by definition, are abusers. This usually from the people, and their sympathizers, who have a vested interest in the current failed system.
Comment by Mark Slater — 02.23.05 @ 2:19 pm
Wasn’t the original point that the schools in that area were working, and then began to “decline” (if that is true) as a result of the “influx” of new students?
Meaning, the teaching “is” adequate and the resources “are” adequate.
If the children who remain in the schools are capable (competent to be in the education system), then there should be no concern for who is not attending.
Comment by Ralph — 02.23.05 @ 3:09 pm
Will Nebraska Coerce Bad Education?
I saw this article posted at La Shawn Barber’s Corner…So these arrogant legislators and school administrators are trying to force children to stay in schools that don’t serve their needs.
Trackback by Sensible Mom — 02.23.05 @ 10:27 pm
Let me just say that I noticed that Phil never came to the table with a solution. Only bashed us for critiqueing the Nebraska’s proposed new rule which would make things worse.
Thanks for the love Phil.
Comment by Baklava — 02.24.05 @ 11:03 am
Around The Blogosphere #19
The late edition in the continuing saga of interesting and thought provoking news from around the web. There’s sure to be something you’ve missed around the blogosphere. (All links open in a new window for faster cruising) Michael King over…
Trackback by Diggers Realm — 02.25.05 @ 6:18 am
pajamazon: Get real w/those “suggestions” about teachers. Getting rid of all current teachers? Capping salaries at $30K? In what dream did this occur to you?
Please don’t paint all [public school] teachers w/the same brush. Approx. 40% of NEA members are Republican, and many detest the politics of the union.
Comment by Hube — 02.25.05 @ 2:30 pm
Hey Andy, it’s “Kokonut Pundits” with an “S”. Another thing, I agree with what La Shawn’s saying. And that’s all you going to hear from me.
Nuff said.
Comment by mcconnell — 03.17.05 @ 7:56 pm