…is always a bad idea. Dismissing from public view an offending object won’t change people’s hearts. Goverment’s job is to deter and punish behavior, not police thoughts. I guess the Euros finally realized that.
The European Union’s justice and interior ministers on Thursday shelved proposals to ban the use of Nazi symbols after failing to agree it could help fight racism and anti-Semitism.Britain, Denmark, Hungary and Italy voiced concerns that a ban of symbols like the swastika could curb freedom of expression.
On the table was a proposal by Luxembourg Justice Minister Luc Frieden that rules to combat racism should include a ban “on displaying symbols inciting hatred and violence.”
“The rules must not hinder the freedom of expression,” Italian Justice Minister Roberto Castelli told reporters, but he added there could be room for a ban on racist symbols in soccer stadiums. (Source)
What a mess they’ve gotten themselves into. A gaggle of disparate countries forming a “one-world” government?
Good luck with all that.
Related post: George Orwell, Eat Your Heart Out.
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Sort of similar to our own “complaints” about the Confederate Flag here in the states. We have some who believe displaying it automatically means you are a racist and that if we hide it… all will be happy and carefree.
Look where it has gotten us
Confederate flags are whatever people want them to be, and I wouldn’t presume to declare their meaning. I do think symbols offensive to a large share of reasonable people should not be on state seals and flags.
Europeans certainly have a more restricted notion of freedom of speech, and religion too, than we do. Their proscription of holocaust denial and the French ban on religious headwear just could not happen here. And I am glad that we have a more vigorous notion of free expression.
La Shawn,
Well put. Banning any type of symbol is tantamount to a creepily totalitarian state.
However, I would ask where you stand on the state of South Carolina waving the Confederate Flag. Ann Coulter has the nerve to call liberals treasonous, but the Confederate flag is a sign of treason against the USA. I don’t care if private individuals fly that flag. But when a government entity flies it, I think it rings a bit too much like an endorsement of that train of thought.
‘A gaggle of disparate countries forming a “one-world” government?’
You’d almost think it was 13 separate colonies trying to unite a continent.
Nardo – I agree, somewhat reluctantly, that “offensive to many” symbols should not be on government symbols (flags) or property (buildings).
Actus, the colonies were not separate countries existing many years before the EU, each with their own culture and way of life. But I “get” your meaning. Unlike others, I don’t need every little detail explained to me in order to read between the lines and discern meaning.
Ah, it’s so nice when government figures out the best way to take care of and empower everyone, isn’t it?
I didn’t mean that.
The only symbol the EU will agree with is the “mark” of the Beast.
Germany has one of the most restrictive bans on nazi symbols, yet it’s not hard to find them. You’ think if I know where to find them, so should the authorities. In reality, the ban is used to slam troublemakers. All the same, why have a law on the books unless it is evenly applied. To do any less only encourages further disrespect for the rule of law.
“Actus, the colonies were not separate countries existing many years before the EU, each with their own culture and way of life.”
Some modern confederate apologists would disagree with you.
Mike M.
Tell that to Earnest Hollings (Democrat) who raised the flag in that state !
Has this:
� South Carolina Governors �
Political Party: Democrat
Born: January 1, 1922
Religion: Lutheran
Education
� The Citadel – B.A. 1942
� University of South Carolina – LL.B. 1947
Occupations
� Captain, United States Army – 1942-1945
� Lawyer
Major Events and Accomplishments – 1959-1963
� The press dubbed the 1959 session of the General Assembly the “Industrial Session” due to the amount of business legislation passed – 1959
� After baseball player Jackie Robinson was threatened with arrest for entering a white waiting room at the Greenville airport, blacks marched from the Springfield Baptist Church to the airport to protest the segregated waiting rooms in the state’s first modern civil rights demonstration – January 1, 1960
� Approximately 100 black students from Friendship Junior College in Rock Hill staged the state’s first sit-ins at the lunch counters of Woolworth’s and McCrory’s – February 12, 1960
� Civil rights demonstrators marched to the state capitol to protest segregation – March 2, 1961
� The findings of a joint study committee on education appointed by Governor Hollings resulted in a legislative charter that initiated the state’s technical education system – May 15, 1961
� The state House of Representatives drafted a resolution requesting that the Confederate flag be flown on the flag pole on top of the State House – February 14, 1962
Other Government Positions
� South Carolina House of Representatives – 1948-1954
� Lieutenant Governor of South Carolina – 1955-1959
� US Senate – 1966-2005
Other Accomplishments, Honors, Distinctions, etc.
� After leaving office, Hollings returned to his law practice until being elected to the US Senate – 1963-1966
The Bullets were transposed into question marks but do not doubt the accuracy of the post.
So. Your point about TREASON could be right on. Go get that man and charge him with treason !!!!!
Let’s start that movement !!!!!
Baklava,
I live above the Mason-Dixon line. I never have been very fond of ‘dem Sutheren Democrats! Most of them should just join the Republican party.
Again, I am a liberal independent. I’ve never aligned myself with either the Dems or the Republicans.
While the Republican Party has a bigger tent, there isn’t much allowance for overt racists in our party. (To the extent that Trent Lott was removed from leadership position without saying something even overtly racist – you had to put words in his mouth that he didn’t say)
So you’re “opinion” that they should just join the Republican party seems to be an opinion born of misinformation and a lack of a realization that we don’t want him or them.
To an extent politics and alignment of individuals to one party or another or one label (like liberal or conservative) or another is about PERCEPTION.
My beef with you Mike is that I believe your perception (fueled by the misinformation that you read and listen to on a daily basis for your entire life) about what a conservative believes is untrue.
If you truly opened your mind to what La Shawn and I say, I believe you would come to a new understanding as opposed to your preconcieved notion of what we (including Bush who is to the left of us) really think.
We try to objectively define the problem. We try to banter about solutions that we think would solve the problem. And we really would like a debate in the playing field of ideas.
Unfortunately with liberals this always denegrates into a conversation about what liberals THINK we think or intend and conservatives defending our intentions and thoughts……. instead of seeing what the results really could be given market based solutions that have empirical evidence out there.
On social issues there is evidence and statistics also but really that boils down to your core beliefs, ethics and morals more than anything.
Mostly I don’t deal with social issues except on an equity basis. I preach Ward Connerly’s message concerning preferential treatment/discrimination. I preach pro border enforcement for national security and equity issues with respect to legal immigrants having a fair shake and not having to compete with law breakers.
Hope this communication was more to your liking.
Additionally if he is voting with the party (the Democrats) over 90% of the time then I’m not sure how you’re desire to see him with us matches up with reality any more than Jumping Jim Jeffords should’ve been with us.
The Confederates were hardly treasonous. A country divided to the point of war over profound differences does not a treason make. OTOH, a faction commited to underminining a country to the point of removing or betraying its autonomy does.
They object to the Rebel flag but accept affirmative action. Weird!
The South did not chose to stay inside the United States and sell its interests to an enemy, they left the relationship. That is not treason.
“The South did not chose to stay inside the United States and sell its interests to an enemy, they left the relationship.”
They didn’t just go away, but also opened fire.
Andy, I agree. And Ann Coulter defined what behavior that some liberals have been doing that she believed was treasonous. Mike’s characterization that she was referring to liberals in general in my belief was false. There was a pattern identified though that showed it was generally liberals exhibiting the behavior.
Instead of those liberals siding with the enemy being explained away or other liberals rallying around those liberals and attacking Ann Coulter, what liberals should do is agree that siding with the enemy during a time of war is really not what liberals is about and DISTANCING themselves from those liberals. Those liberals should not feel welcome in the Democrat party.
It’s a serious matter to be undermining (behavior not a symbol) this country by siding with the enemy during a time of war. Hopefully liberals will purge that element from their party soon but I don’t see it happening since Kerry and Dean EMBRACED much of the rhetoric.
The rhetoric from Dean questioning whether Bush knew about 9/11 before 9/11 and the rhetoric from both Kerry and Dean about Bush “misleading” this country when Bush was saying the same thing as Kerry and Clinton and Albright and the 5 major intelligence agencies from Countries on this world were saying was Terrible.
That kind of talk really solidified for a lot of conservatives and common sense centrists like myself that the Democrats can’t be trusted with power nationally for awhile.
So what do you want to do Actus? Charge the south with treason. That’ll fly. That’ll really woo the Southern voters to vote Democrat and be liberal.
Keep it up Actus. I’m in CA and I see how stupid the conversation is. Yeah both sides opened fire at each other. It was a civil war.
You can either get over it and move on or try to really put your foot down on the necks of the people of the states who were involved in the losing side of the civil war. And what would that gain you? Submission? To what? Your ideology?
And what is that ideology? Preferential treatment and choosing to side with the present enemy of the war we are in now?
“So what do you want to do Actus? Charge the south with treason.”
I think that’s already been forgiven.
“Yeah both sides opened fire at each other. It was a civil war.”
But one side opened fire on fort sumpter.
“You can either get over it and move on ”
Exactly. Face. You lost. Get over it and move on. Time to be an american, not celebrate the people who killed more americans than bin laden.
I lost?
That’s how your perspective is so whack that you are almost always in attack mode against conservatives. I’m in CA buddy. I’m not celebrating people who killed more americans than Bin Laden. I’m simply amazed at what lengths you go to in order to try to make people mad and drive voters towards conservatives.
Oh. I think I got it. You probably equate me as having lost because I’m a conservative…. I see now.
Grow up!
One day liberals will actually play on the playing field of ideas. But until then more and more voters look at your rhetoric and see that they don’t want to be aligned with you.
Regarding the banning of symbols (the original topic, by the way), I doubt that it would work.
Centuries ago, the government of England banned the display of all things Scottish, including the display of tartans. The Scots came up with a way to show tartans without getting arrested.
During Sunday church services, the Scots would flash pieces of tartan material so that the material was seen by everyone attending church.
This act of rebellion by the Scots is the origin of a Scottish tradition called “The Kirking of the Tartans” (”kirk” is the Scottish word for “church”).
England no longer bans all things Scottish.
Today, the Kirking of the Tartans is a regular feature of the Scottish Highland Games that take place throughout the USA.
[Groan] Why is it that every time “Nazi Symbols” are mentioned the Confederate flag is immediately brought up by someone? I find that disturbing inasmuch as the two symbols have nothing in common historically or ideologically.
And, Actus, I lost nothing, and I assume that “Time to be an American” means to support everything that our out-of-control D.C. government waves in front of us. Not for me, thanks!
The Scottish Tartan, the Confederate battle flag, etc. are symbols of distinct peoples and their heritage. The swastike is a symbol of a murderous Pagan regime and ought to be considered in that light.
Nevertheless, I do not support the German state banning that symbol simply because such a thing would be antithetical to the principles of a free state.
“I lost?”
I should have been clearer. I didn’t mean you you. I meant “you” the confederates. It was a reply to a hypothetical.
“And, Actus, I lost nothing, and I assume that “Time to be an American” means to support everything that our out-of-control D.C. government waves in front of us.”
I think it means using patriotic flag waver ill thought “with us or against us” rhetoric against the confederates in a not so subtle attempt to ridcule everything in the process.
British Liberal Democrat Chris Davies (from the debate on this issue)
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