Update (3/18/05): If you’ve landed here through an Internet search, please see the latest post on Terri Schiavo.
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Email from a reader (edited for spelling/clarity):
“I took care of Terri as a respiratory therapist not long after her initial brain injury. She had every test…swallowing, etc. She is in a state of irreversible brain damage. People in her condition have their eyes open, grunt and can make alot of grimaces. The lay person does not realize what a person goes thru day in and day out…how hard it is on the human body…the constant care, and this is really for the people that cannot let go. In this case, her family that can not and will not face the truth. In this case, it is a control issue. When family members will not accept the facts they hang on for selfish reasons.
Please advocate letting Terri go…I have taken care of so many people in this state, and there is no happy outcome. Just heartbreak. The person who is suffering the most is Terri, whose body is in need of constant care, battling infections, bedsores, etc. Blog for the good of Terri…love her and let her go in peace. When a tube feeding is disconnected, a person is never denied water or meds. People need to be aware of the truth of people with severe brain damage and the suffering that lingers. Love is learning to accept the truth and giving peace to Terri finally.
Jo Ann F.”
Semi-Related Update: In response to In the Womb, reader Elizabeth B. sends link to an ultrasound photo and others of her baby boy, delivered last week.
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I have also cared for people who have been in a persistent vegetative state. I am always shocked that some families insist on this approach. For many such victims, I felt I was doing something TO them rather than FOR them. I agree; some people are invoking morality as an excuse for a refusal to admit that something irreversibly bad has happened to a loved one, yet they cannot let go. We don’t treat our pets this badly.
I have a hard time believing our creator intended for us to live this way, or that it would be immoral to choose not to. If dying of a stroke or brain injury (by being unable to eat) was not immoral before feeding tubes were invented, why is it immoral now? Is our future now that we must remain tethered to some tube or machine or pump before we can die a Christian death? Must the mere availability of technology now be the arbiter of whether a death is permissible under God’s plan? How horrible.
“The lay person does not realize what a person goes thru day in and day out…how hard it is on the human body…the constant care”
I can understand this person is torn but I can’t help but read the “me.. how hard it is on me” in this statement.
“When family members will not accept the facts they hang on for selfish reasons.”
What are really the facts? No one knows. A fancy machine and all the doctors in the world do not know what is going on inside of Terri. Are her families reasons selfish? I personally see selfish when her husband has already taken to living and procreating with another woman while he still has a wife… that is the only fact we have in this whole story.
Either way, all very sad.
I would not object to a decision to let Terri die if it made by a person who loved her. Her husband plainly wants to kill her. I don’t trust him one bit.
While I suppose the person writing that letter is sincere, think how easily everything he/she says could apply to any seriously ill or handicapped person. What I’m noticing in my experience is how easily shallow people abandon others who make them “uncomfortable.” I am aware of a woman with some dementia who still would love to see her granddaughters, yet they haven’t visited her in years, even though, in their childhood, she doted on them constantly. One of these gals traveled cross country to participate in an “antiwar rally” yet she cannot drive five miles to visit her grandmother.
I fear a future where our every decision must be played out in the community, much like this one has.
I have often thought that even if Terri had had a signed notarized videotaped affadavit testifying to her desire to avoid this kind of existence, yet the parents objected regardless, we would be in the same position even now.
Is a Christian everallowed to die without a feeding tube? If some lifesaving device is available, but it leaves you in a condition that you abhor, does God require of us that we must use it? Since such technologies are unavailable for much of the world’s population, are those people living in sin because they don’t do everything in their power to assure that their loved ones do not die without feeeding tubes? Is it a sin to reject a persistent vegetative state for your own a husband or wife? Is it a sin not to spend every cent you have, or to avoid going into debt to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, in order to keep someone alive who a mere generation ago would have been long dead?
I don’t have any special insight here; I just do not think the answers are so clear as people pretend.
Regarding Pogo’s comment, I do not think that we are in a position to presuppose what God’s plan is. Is it His plan that everyone who suffers a debilitating disease die without help from technology, or is it part of His plan that technology be used to keep someone alive as a display of faith that we still believe in the possibility of miracles? If the former is the case, then why would He allow us to create that technology to begin with?
Hopefully, Terri is not aware of her current suffering. But how much worse is her parent’s suffering, and our suffering as a society, if we allow the judgment of someone who clearly has questionable motives regarding Terri’s life to make a life/death decision of this magnitude. If, as a matter of convenience to the husband, we allow Terri’s life to be terminated, how far away is our society from promoting euthanasia for any patient for which it is no longer “convenient” to keep them alive. I believe that God’s plan for us is to protect innocent life, not take it away, and that His judgment on us individually, and as a society, will reflect the morality upon which we base our decisions.
A horrible situation, and a dangerous line to cross, murder; no matter how honestly good the intentions.
JoAnne’s perspective is heart wrenching, but it is not the only one. You can read another one at terrisfight.org.
Re: “I believe that God’s plan for us is to protect innocent life, not take it away…”
Dave, I agree with this statement. However, I am unsure if it answers my questions at all, because such a simple statement gets rather complex when confronted by the panoply of technology available today. What exactly does “protect” mean, and how far does this requirement extend? Does it mean that ALL available technologies MUST be used in EVERY case, or we are not following God’s plan?
To be sure, I am not arguing against the choice for a feeding tube. Not at all.
I am simply asking whether others here would EVER agree that someone has the right to reject such technologies while remaining a Christian? Is one who refuses to employ a new technology displaying a lack of faith? Is the lack of faith in technology now the same as a lack of faith in Jesus?
So I ask again: Is it a sin to die without a feeding tube?
Because I am getting the uncomfortable feeling that there is shift in the religious view, and that this new ethic demands we accept all possibilities for medical intervention, no matter how remote the chance it will work, and no matter how much you fear it will hurt you, or else you showing a “lack of faith” in God.
I would very much like to hear that someone somewhere accepts that people can still decide to die a natural death, without machines.
I have been following this for awhile now. Why are all these poeple so bent on killing this girl ?
The people who want to pull the plug are lining up from the left, of course, no surprise there, but yet if she were on Florida’s Death Row, which indeed she is, these same self-styled hypocrites would be out in front of the prison with signs and a candle light vigil to protect another murderer.
But no Terry Shindler is none of these she is a young woman clinging to life and on the word of a worthless backstabbing almost former husband they are ready to kill her.
Why is she not afforded the same appeal process that Death-row inmates are.
There is no living will, only the husbands ‘word’ that she made a statement saying she would not like to live like that. I believe that is hersay in any court and would NOT be admitted.
Going by this, am I to assume that Murderers, serial killers have more rights that an unborn baby or a young girl who has been brain damaged, via possibly her former husband, this has not been proved yet but the suspicion is there all the same.
How is this benefitting anyone to pull her feeding tube so she may starve to death, the only one I can see is her ‘worthless’ piece of garbage referred to as her husband.
If that be the case and this is what he wants he should be the one to pull the tube and be ordered to sit by her bedside during the whole process, so he can watch the complete horrific ordeal.
Mark
I am not convinced that Terry Schiavo’s parents are thinking about Terry – they are thinking about themselves.
Ditto that Terry is not going to get better. Any competent neurologist can evaluate brain waves, etc..
Talk of “rehabilitation” is just wishful thinking. So all decisions must be made with this reality in mind.
Personally, I have writtena living will – I don’t want to be like Terry.
I am distressed at the level of Government involvement in Terry’s case. This can only make things worse for the “right to lifers” – and legalized euthanasia is one step closer.
Michael Schiavo’s greed will make any rational decision about Terry impossible to achieve.
Nobody likes to say 13 years. This is how long Terri has been in this state. I think her husband has long past demonstrated his diligence and concern. 13 years is a prison sentence, and Terri is in the worst kind of solitary confinement.
As for God’s will in this matter, I think that this is a perfect example of human overreach. Does God command that humans do everything in their power to overcome death? Why not just freeze her brain and put it in cryogenic stasis until the day we advance medical technology to where people live to be 120? I mean more life is always better right? Death should always be feared right?
Why is Terri afraid of death? Has she some sin to atone for? Some earthly work left undone? Is the state of her soul in question? Is she evading her Judgement?
What is the daily cost of maintaining Terri?
The husband has been in a prison ? Thats a joke right ?
He was in such sad shape he went out and started a new family and let Terry to her own devices and for her family her real family to take care of her.
Yeah, he was really in rough shape in a prison, poor guy, the man is a first class scum-bag, he sued and and soon as Terry is dead he gets around a cool million. Yeah some prison.
According to the E-Mail Lashawn received, The writer states flatly that they do not deny the patient “water or her meds” THIS IS NOT TRUE.
The daily cost of maintaining Terri is to be born by the parents and so is irrelevant to a discussion of morality.
The reason this case has so much heat is precisely because of the apparent greed of the husband. Had Terry, in fact, signed a Dying Will (as opposed to a Will to Live), there would be no problem. Or more to the point, the problem would be between Terri and God. The fact that the husband is likely the source of the initial problem coupled with what he stands to gain at her death, makes his testimony of her desires suspect.
No one has said anything about Terri being afraid of anything. Please go to TerrisFight.org for more background.
Pogo,
I disagree with this statement, “…even if Terri had had a signed notarized videotaped affadavit testifying to her desire to avoid this kind of existence, yet the parents objected regardless, we would be in the same position even now.”
If she had papers of that kind, we would all have to respect her directive regardless of her parents’ or anyone else’s protests. I know I would support her own directive. The fact that she made no such living will is what’s complicatiing matters. This case would be so different too if ‘husband’ had demonstrated good character by remaining devoted and actually living like her husband instead of shacking up with someone else; then we might be able to take him at his word that Terri said such-and-such. We have conflicting reports of Terri’s condition too. One source says the only thing she can’t do is swallow; another says she’s a vegetable. Yet another source suspects foul play put her into her current state. Are we looking at the latest EKGs or has ‘husband’ cherry picked only the worst ones to show the judge? How do we know she won’t ever get better? What’s true and what isn’t? I don’t know.
And even if Terri does want to die, don’t we think that she’d prefer a lethal injection or even a bullet instead of slowly starving for weeks?
To continue my last post, computer crashed,..
The E-mail LaShawn received stated that they will continue to give Terry Water and her meds, Oh really , how do they do that she cannot swallow and once the feeding tube is removed how do they give her water and meds. this is as bogus as someone asking the question
… well who is paying for all of this. To that poster You are not. Or that she may have some sin to atone for..
So your solution is to just kill her now that is real compassion. The same kind of compassion shown to all the Death row inmates which you people seem to think are all innocent.
Mark
Pogo: RE your comment: “I would very much like to hear that someone somewhere accepts that people can still decide to die a natural death, without machines.”
My comments were directed specifically to Terri’s situation, where there is no tangible proof that this is her personal wish. Rather, it appears to be a matter of convenience for her “husband”, whose motives appear to be anything but caring and loving.
I believe in the dignity of the individual to be able to choose whether or not to be kept alive by machines, or to document beforehand that they do not wish to be kept alive by machines. There is no dignity in a decision to disconnect Terri from her life support.
I do not personally believe that God’s plan suggests that everyone must be hooked up to a machine regardless of their personal choice just because the technology exists. What I do think is that, given willful prayer and reflection, God will lead the individual to make the choice that reconciles that decision with God’s plan for him/her. Terri, and those that truly love her, have not been given that choice.
I read an interesting article over at Slate regarding euthanasia, specifically in the Netherlands and Oregon where termination of life is a legal medical treatment.The observation is made that some in the medical community are forcing this option upon terminal patients because the costs to keep them alive are too high. My fear is that once we allow for this to become even an option regardless of the “hopelessness” of the case or the treatment required for these patients we begin setting a price on human life.
Of course, I blogged about this at:
http://stealthebandwagon.blogspot.com/2005/03/are-you-in-pain-dying-6-months-to-live.html
And if you’re not interested in what I have to say here is a link to just the article, it is worth a read: http://www.slate.com/id/2114344/
Some of us seem to be confusing God’s will with personal desires.
From the Westminster Confession.
What is man’s chief end? Man’s chief end is to glorify God and enjoy him forever.
That would be a statement of God’s will for us.
The Bible does not speak to the specific but you can infer from the bulk of the teaching, that we should do everything in our power to preserve life. What more is there to say?
CharlyG – You’re presuming that most people are familiar with God’s law, which is the whole Bible. Sadly, many Christians aren’t familiar enough with the Bible to even defend the faith!
When people speculate that God would want us to help someone die, they sprinkle “God talk” here and there without being able to quote any Scripture supporting such an edict. Given man’s sinful nature, he wants what is best for himself, not others. People assume that being put “out of her misery” is what’s best for Terri, but she is still breathing. We can only speculate how God’s plan is being carried out through her.
Terri’s husband should divorce her and get on with his life, and allow Terri’s parents to continue caring for her. We don’t have to worry about this: God’s will will be done. There is nothing in the earth, above it or below it that can stop it.
La Shawn – Yes, that is true, but as a PCA elder, I am insulated from the average mush that passes for evangelical Christianity (for some reason, I just think you should have a passion for the Word). We are serious about our faith, and stay well grounded in the Word.
As I ended my last post:
What more is there to say? {:^)
“Terri’s husband should divorce her and get on with his life, and allow Terri’s parents to continue caring for her.”
LaShawn – I agree, but I believe that there is too much for him to lose financially to get him to do so.
“We don’t have to worry about this: God’s will will be done. There is nothing in the earth, above it or below it that can stop it.”
AMEN
Unbelievable! The trackback above by UNCoRRELATED suddenly has “Jo Ann F.” being cited as a nurse. If one reads La Shawn’s post carefully, it is clear that “Jo Ann F.” is not a nurse, but rather a respiratory therapist.
UNCoRRELATED also seizes upon one quote: “She is in a state of irreversible brain damage” and stresses the irreversible brain damage part. This, the medical pronouncement of someone with no medical degree who worked only tangentially with Terri Schiavo over 15 years ago!
And yet, the “irreversible brain damage” is now speeding its way across the blogsphere on wings of lightning as though it were the Gospel truth.
Sad, sad, sad. I suggest that people who freely admit that they don’t know what to think should check out terrisfight.org and blogsforterri.com
Educate yourselves before you so blithely consign Terri to a cruel and ignominious death by starvation and dehydration.
The letter writer is either lying or misinformed about whether Terri will be given water after the feeding tube is removed.
The last time it was removed in late 2003, doctors ordered that she receive NOTHING by mouth, and Terri began showing signs of extreme dehydration after five days.
A former caretaker of Terri’s, in a sworn deposition, said that she has given Terri water orally, and that Terri is able to swallow it. Nonetheless, she was denied all food and water when her tube was removed in October 2003.
Money is never the object – to those spending other people’s money. Prudent folk always consider whether any expenditure is the highest and best use. Money spent for one good purpose is not available for another good purpose.
You people are all comnvinced that Terri’s husband is such a schmuck, take up a collection and buy Terri from him.
Actually, Mr. “Walter E. Wallis,” prudent people don’t put a price on a human being’s life.
Also, prudent people learn some of the facts first, such as the fact that Terri’s family, the Schindlers, have stated repeatedly that they will take on the burden of Terri’s costs. It won’t cost you or Michael Schiavo a cent. Not one penny. But you are so bent on seeing Terri die that no one can even reason with you. You are hard-hearted, hard-necked, and it is utterly Satanic that you boil Terri’s life down to money, money which isn’t even yours. May God rebuke you!
Go count your money Mr. Wallis. I’m sure money will save you and Michael Schiavo from God’s just and divine judgment.
Your “reasoning” makes me sick.
Amazing to see the arrogance of many of you, so sure you know what lies in the hearts of others, so sure you know what God wants you to do always?
…”But you are so bent on seeing Terri die that no one can even reason with you. You are hard-hearted, hard-necked, and it is utterly Satanic that you boil Terri’s life down to money, money which isn’t even yours. May God rebuke you!
Go count your money Mr. Wallis. I’m sure money will save you and Michael Schiavo from God’s just and divine judgment.”
You are so sure you know someone just from an opinion? Can you not see at all how someone, from a compassionate perspective, may wish to allow Terri to escape from her earthly prison? I can certainly see why you see it compassionate to keep her alive, although I do disagree.
Are you so sure from where on the political spectrum one lies simply from their opinions here? Why not at least look at both sides, and try to understand?
Nah — that requires to much work. Let’s just malign our counterparts’ motives and assume they’re evil, terrible people. That way we don’t have to think, we don’t have to search inside ourselves, we don’t have to question our own beliefs that maybe — just maybe — we don’t have all the answers.
I think it is outrageous to assume that Terri is miserable. The truth is, we don’t know that….What we do know is that she smiles, beams really, at her Mother and Father (this is not reflex and has been documented countless times). We also know that she used to talk (and this is sworn testimony by two nurses who cared for Terri).
She spends her days sitting up in a chair, not laying in bed. She reacts with people. She enjoys her family very much.
If people could see Terri, and see her interact with her family, I think they would put away the ‘permanent vegatative state’ mindset forever.
As for the ‘respiratory therapist’ who used to care for Terri, my question is, in what capacity? TERRI IS NOT ON A RESPIRATOR OR VENTILATOR. Yes, that’s right, she breathes on her own. Most people think she is ventilator dependent. She is not.
Right now, Terri is a lot like a baby. She is aware of the world around her, she reacts positively and with feeling with her family. She breathes on her own, but needs help with feeding. Even if she never progresses past this stage, why on earth would a rational, caring human being take it upon himself to end this state of being? As human beings sharing in this circus called life, the most important charge we are handed is to take care of the most vulnerable among us.
Remember that most of what you read in the mainstream media about Terri is not true. Terri is not ventilator dependent. She is not in a coma. TWELVE physcians have signed affadavits stating that Terri’s condition could improve with the proper therapies. Terri used to talk, before her loving husband put her in a room and ordered the window blinds closed and the therapy stopped.
#1.I would like to read what is actually being claimed by the physicians who are attending to Terri.
I have read claims made by Terri’s parents and by bloggers who support Terri’s parents. I have yet to read a statement signed by Terri’s physicians.
Such a signed statement would help clarify the state of Terri’s health.
#2. Assuming that Terri has consciousness (a claim that her physicians have to verify), what if Terri would like to be allowed to die? How would she be able to tell people about her desire?
#3. If Terri were to indicate that she wished to die, would it be correct to go against her wish?
#4. I see nothing in the Bible that addresses what is happening with Terri.
However, I want to thank the PCA elder for quoting from the Westminster Confession. By doing so, he reminded me why I left the PCA. The Westminster Confession is not Scripture, and yet too many PCA elders act as if it were.
#5. Could Terri’s parents be motivated by a fear? Could they be afraid that they will not see Terri again once she dies? If they have this fear, then either they don’t believe the Gospel, Terri doesn’t believe the Gospel, or both.
#6. If Terri’s parents get what they want, and if Terri’s condition never improves, then at what point in Terri’s life will it be permissible to let Terri die?
Hey, Frank, the same God that gave you your compassion gave me my reason, a reason I have spent my life using improving the lot of people. As proof, Google me and DDT to see how I have consistently fought to save the millions of African babies that die every year because some asshole bureaucrat, in unwarranted compassion for some bird, condemned those children to a horrible death.
I could have been rich beyond the dreams of avarice – I chose instead to be an engineer. Now go eat your monkey.
Excellant Post, Scott.
Why is everyone so concerned about Terry’s feeding tube being removed, I keep hearing this death with dignity thing, according to whom and by whos definition some left-wing-nitwit-crackpot.
The only people in the world who care for Terry is her parents and at this point they should be the ones the only ones who can make a life or death decision, they choose life for their daughter.
I don’t care what the doctors say, the MD does not mean Medical Divinity, it stand for doctor aka human and prone to miss and make mistakes ergo to be wrong.
It has been 13 years so what, what is that to you libs who are so quick to judge this case and hurry to end her life and in such a horrific way.
All that can be added is to take heed.
“You reap what you sow”
Mark
Scott P.
I debated whether to even respond to your nonsense, fearing that to do so would merely dignify your blather.
No, you cannot look at “other sides” when it comes to murder. You are not God, you don’t get to choose what life is worth saving and what life is not worth saving. And yet you have the utter gall to accuse me or others of being arrogant, when it is you who would usurp God’s authority and put it in the hands of men who follow their every whim and fleeting thought.
Your agreement or disagreement with preserving Terri’s life is neither here no there. It is not your choice. The fact that our society has become so degenerate that anyone would even debate that point is appalling. You say it’s ok to murder someone if it’s a “mercy killing.” God says it isn’t ok. End of debate.
Sounds like some of the beliefs that Hitler had. Who’s next on the right to live or dies list eh?
Renee,
Comparing Hitler to this Schiavo case seems a bit of a stretch. Whether or not this “Jo Ann F.” is a real person, I do believe the things she says are correct. The only reason I’m against the plug being pulled on Schiavo is her husband. He is nothing more than a disgusting excuse for a human. He’s clearly using his marriage as leverage for some economic gain when she should pass. The marriage should be dissolved immediately and Terri’s parents should gain custody.
I think in many cases it’s inhumane to keep someone alive who seriously has no chance of ever coming “back.”
So, I would hardly compare the Schiavo case to something Hitler would’ve done.
I wonder how many hollywood types would intervene if it involved a animal suppose somebody wanted to kill a vicious dog? those idiots in hollywood would be raliying their support to save the dog or if it involved a grove of redwood trees they would have WOODY HARELSON and the eco-freaks would be climbing up the golden gate bridge unfurling their SAVE THE REDWOODS banners or what ever but scince it involves a woman like this they wont lift a finger what worthless excuses for humans they are
Take the feeing tube out. If it is God’s will for Terri to die, she will; if not, she will remain alive.
Pull the plug and move on. Michael Schiavo has. Terri’s parents and all the rest of you need to as well.
Rational Christian Person? Hardly. Your proposal is truly the stupidist, least rational thing I have ever read, and that is saying a lot. Let’s apply your logic to babies. Stop feeding them, if they die it’s God’s Will. See how moronic that sounds?
If Michael Schiavo had moved on, he would have divorced Terri years ago.
I repeat, Terri is not a vegetable in a coma.
The fact that some of you think it is in any way fitting to end her life is testament to your complete lack of morality.
I don’t care to ’see both sides’ of an issue like this. My refusal to do so is not indicative of ignorance, but of purpose and justification. This is not some stupid forensics lesson where one’s intelligence is based on absurd notions of openmindedness. This is a human life.
So if we allow a person to die a slow death by starvation because that person cannot consume nutrition on their own then what will happen to those people who are alive because another person is feeding them. What is the difference between say, an invalid teenager incapapable of feeding themselves and needs the assistance of either another person or technology to provide nutrient and Terri Schiavo?
Does this mean that if a person is incapable of feeding themselves then they should starve to death in order to end their situation?
Re:“Does this mean that if a person is incapable of feeding themselves then they should starve to death in order to end their situation?”
Of course not; that is merely a straw man argument. The fact that some of the posters here see this as a clear easy case to decide indicates a lack of critical thought.
For example, to say that it is murder to allow her to die when she left no living will, then it follows that it must also be suicide to allow her to die if she left such a document. To call this murder means you believe that the availability of technology trumps the right to decide.
I would have alot more faith that those supporting Terri’s parents were truly representative of Christian beliefs if they were not so certain they know what is right. That is, if there were the least bit of recognition that this is a very complex and unclear situation, in which the outcome is sad either way, in which it is not easy at all to discern what is the moral thing to do here, in which the most correct answer might be “What a horrible situation; God forgive us for the arrogance in creating technology that ignores moral considerations”
…..if I were to hear even the least bit of doubt by supporters (or dissenters), then I would know to trust your opinions.
As it stands, however, I see lots of grandstanding and claims for certainty where none exists. Myself, I have pity for Terri, her parents and her husband. I have been in this situation with family myself, and have cared for others as well. It is simple foolish pride to suggest there are any clear answers here. There is only suffering, and both sides here seem to have legitimate arguments. Neither side is evil, and both operate in ignorance.
What is the right thing to do? I simply don’t know.
Neither, I argue, do any of us.
RE: Pogo’s Last Post
“As it stands, however, I see lots of grandstanding and claims for certainty where none exists. Myself, I have pity for Terri, her parents and her husband. I have been in this situation with family myself, and have cared for others as well. It is simple foolish pride to suggest there are any clear answers here. There is only suffering, and both sides here seem to have legitimate arguments. Neither side is evil, and both operate in ignorance.”
If certainty does not exist in your mind, it’s because you are buying into “moral relativism”, which I believe is the inability to distinguish between good and evil. While you argue that both sides seem to have legitimate arguments, you seem to ignore the motives behind those arguments, and you accuse others of grandstanding because you seem to be unable to commit to or accept a moral principal that says you should not take an innocnet life. Good and evil do exist, sometimes blatant, sometimes subtle, and not being able or willing to acknowledge it is a slippery slope.
Pogo, I guess everyone is ignorant but you.
How lucky you are.
Frankly, you are more dangerous than those who would starve Terri with no compunction. You are the kind of thoughtful handwringer who accompanies most monstrous acts. You turn your head, proud of your diplomatic abilities, and don’t take a stand, . It is people like you who serve as cloaks for evil. You are an abetter, full of wonder at your wonderful, nuanced intellect.
You seem to want some admittance that this is a difficult situation, and I don’t see anyone denying that. Nonetheless, those who would kill Terri seem to refuse to believe she is anything but a log, asleep and unresponsive.
“I think in many cases it’s inhumane to keep someone alive who seriously has no chance of ever coming “back.”So, I would hardly compare the Schiavo case to something Hitler would’ve done.”
Coming back? She hasn’t gone anywhere – or have you not read the reports from eyewitnesses, other than her parents, who have spent time with her. This is exactly how Hitler’s euthanasia program started – with one case – a retarded girl who would never “come back”. Secondly – the therapist is completely inaccurate – the order by judge Greer for 1.00pm March 18 states the nutrition and hydration are to be withdrawn. That means nothing to eat or drink. Thirdly – Pogo you sound remarkably familiar. Peddling euthanasia under the guise of “some cases might require…” I’ve heard that before. You aren’t trolling are you?
In the USA, we don’t kill Eunichs, and we don’t kill Mongoloids. We don’t even starve Death Row prisoners. If she’s so brain dead, why is she speaking?
The parents have offered the Husband money to divorce her.
Unfortunately, the Parents money/divorce offer was not as much money as the husband stands to gain from Terri’s insurance policy once she’s dead.
Catez, where are you? I put “back” in quotes, as you probably noticed. Mentally, she is indeed “gone,” with probably little chance of coming “back.”
Great point Catez (regarding Hitler). I just finished up research on him and watching some footage from a propaganda film he put out and that was exactly what he was saying (anyone without the mental and physical capacity to do for themselves should be exterminated). For some reason people think it is a stretch to think that “we” in this day and age would ever consider something so crazy, but then so did people of his own time (never believing what was about to occur).
It all started somewhere.
Some of the posters here obviouly have a mental picture of Terry as on a respirator, comatose, unable to swallow, etc. (”pull the plug” comments)
She spends her days in a lounge chair, not a bed. She responds to her parents individually (differently for mom than for dad). She does swallow (managing her own saliva). The tube is only inserted for feeding. Watch the videos.
The post above comparing her to a child is the most accurate.
Terri not Terry
Mike said, “Catez, where are you? I put “back” in quotes, as you probably noticed. Mentally, she is indeed “gone,” with probably little chance of coming “back.”
Me: I’m in the South Pacific. And you? Oh sorry – am I not supposed to have a literal view based on facts? I see… couch everything in euphemisitc doublespeak. So Terri is not alive, responsive, relational, and beautiful. She’s “gone”. Problem. Which medical reports do you base this opinion on? The ones from the pro-euthanasia doctor or the ones from the doctors with integrity? You are “gone” Mike. And you don’t even realise. You can come “back” – a bit of conscience goes a long way. So let’s not start killing people with fatuous and specious arguments based on opinion and euphemistic doublespeak that betrays a persons life and dignity. The historical parallel is so obvious it’s alarming.
“And yet you have the utter gall to accuse me or others of being arrogant, when it is you who would usurp God’s authority and put it in the hands of men who follow their every whim and fleeting thought.”
No, Frank, I wouldn’t. I made it clear that it was a hard decision with no obvious right answer. Perhaps God has blesssed you with the Divine knowledge that the rest of us must wait to understand. That God speaks through you (”…God says it isn’t ok. End of debate.”) is truly a gift. Odd, though, that he speaks with such anger and animosity, isn’t it?
Or perhaps you’re just afraid that maybe, just maybe, your answers aren’t as certain as you’d like to think they are.
All of you that think like Frank — please, learn some humility and beware the danger that such conceit and arrogance brings. You, too, could end up bitter and afraid like Frank.
As for me, I just try to explore the whole situation when it’s placed in front of me and humbly pray that my will is in line with God’s will. Humbly, though, because never in this lifetime will I KNOW.
just let her go. let her be in peace. ending up like terri is my worst fear, and i make sure to tell everyone around me that i don’t want to ever be like that. i have a living will, and i hope it is enforced. i would want someone to put me out of my misery. i would rather be dead than be in a shell of a body, unable to move or respond beyond the stage of a young child. and leave michael alone, he has stood by her side for as long as he could, life does go on. i would hope that there would be such a champion for me. i would also hope that person is able to make himself happy, and enjoy the life i couldn’t. Please, just let terri die.
As long as Terri has the ability to live, regardless of her condition, with no clear cut answer to her wishes, we cannot remove the feeding tube.
This is not a “quality of life” vs. “sanctity of life” issue that every high school debate student mulls over at least once. The law makes no distinctions for quality of life. Until the Supremes rule otherwise, there is no defense for removing the tube. The law is clear. Judges ruling otherwise are making a judgement of convenience (as evidenced by their opinions).
Renee, if you investigate Hitler further, the Nazis were also looking to put the deaf & mute out of their misery as well. Moreso with the non-Aryans, it was just a matter of getting to the next logical step to take care of the Ayran deaf wholesale, but for the squeamish sensibilities.
Fortunately the war ended before the Final Solution could be applied to the remaining deaf. Altho many did not survive the asylums, otherwise, there’d be a porpotionate number of them in the 60 to 100 year old range today.
People,
Lashawn has a lovely blog, so let’s not let this posting overwhelm the server with these lengthy comments. The issues are clear:
1) The original poster was incorrect – you can’t say the brain damage is irreversible, if you haven’t attempted therapy. That therapy hasn’t been done.
2) To live without full function is not agonizing. It CAN seem like that to the friends and family, but the disabled individual may well find life worth living. Whether the family and friends find it stressful to compare the current life with one that could have been shouldn’t affect the decision to let life continue.
So, ‘life goes on’ only when one is independent of having to rely on anyone or anything which might help to sustain their lives. How humane.
When Terri’s plug is pulled she is not going to die in peace, she is going to suffer a horrible, miserable and lengthy death by starvation.
Perhaps when Christopher Reeves was plugged into a device which kept him alive, his wife might have said ’sorry honey, I love you but because you’re misery is causing horrible suffering I am pulling the plug so you can die peacefully by suffocating to death and I can get on with my life’.
All this reminds me of the book/movie “The Beach”,
whenever human beings are suffering and in need of humanity the answer is to simply throw away their lives by dumping them out of sight (or pulling the plug) so that others can go on living their lives without suffering.
Those who wish to pull the plug are doing so not for the benefit of ending Terri’s suffering, they want to pull the plug in order to deny themselves the concept that human beings do face misery. It iis the courage to face misery which will lead us tto accept the truth in learning what is love.
We have a “death cult” (abortion, extermination) in our culture which is killing our humanity. This death cult believes that if humans who cause suffering become a drain on us then it is better to simply throw them away. Aborting the baby in the womb or pulling the plug are easy ways of not having to deal with our humanity.
As the artist for the animated graphic called “I-heart-terri”
I’d like to give permission to ALL other bloggers for terri, to copy and use the banner ad on their websites that support returning Terri to the Schindlers.
I’m not sure how to contact the maximum number of ‘bloggers for terri’ so if others of you know how to do that, please forward this note for me. THANKS!
FL_engineer at FreeRepublic
The vertical banner ‘ad’ is a ’spoof’ for a DVD,
and can be seen within post #1 here…
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1358619/posts
New Therapy Improves Swallow Function
New Therapy Improves Swallow Function
“and leave michael alone, he has stood by her side for as long as he could.”
You don’t know what you are talking about here. He doesn’t visit her. He has prevented her from listening to music or having any kind of stimulation or therapy. He threatened at one point to try and legally prevent her parents from visiting her. Just because you don’t want to be like Terri is no excuse to say she should be killed. Shameful. And done in this pleading “poor me-poor Terri” way.
17 medical doctors have stated that they think rehabilitaton is worthwhile for Terri Schiavo. Michael Schiavo will not allow it even though he was awrded over $1 million on the understanding he would use the money for rehabilitation. Now a Nobel Prize nominated doctor has just stated that he works with people who have suffered more brain damage than Terri and they recover some function. He has looked at Terri’s medical records and believes she would progress with rehabilitation. Wake up! This woman is not in a persistent vegetative state. She is a disabled woman who has been denied access to rehabilitative therapy, and the court is wanting to execute her.
Commenters who say “I have looked after people like Terri in persistent vegetative states” don’t know what they are talking about – because Terri is not in a persistent vegetative state. It astounds me that some people would recommend kiling a prson when they don’t even bother to find out the facts. “Oh just let her go” means kill her by slow starvation and deydration over a two week or more period. And to say that some-one should be killed like that when you don’t even bother to find out the truth displays a laziness of conscience which is deplorable.
As for overwhelming the server – I’m sure La Shawn would let us know if that was a problem.
cuz you know so much. just let it be.
I have been following the news about Terry from day one.
It is so easy to say pull the tube when it isn’t your child. Terry is not dying and is not on any kind of life support to keep her alive. If a person was completely brain dead, she could not respond to her parents when they talk to her. We have no idea what Terry is thinking or how she is feeling, and we certainly don’t know what went on in that home 13 years ago to cause her to be in this condition.
If Terry was in this condition when she first went into the hospital, how in the world could she have signed a living will. Her so called husband made the decision, not Terry. Too, any person who is married, and lives with another woman to begin a new family in my opinion is a bigamist. They would be considered married after this length of time and that is a criminal offense. He lost all his rights to Terry when he moved out for this other woman. Papers need to be served on him for this offense.
He received thousands of dollars from a lawsuit. He said he was going to use it for Terry’s attorney. Terry never has had an attorney. Where is all the money he received from this suit.
He didn’t divorce Terry, because there was a lot of money involved and he would not receive any.
If it was my child, I couldn’t let her go either. There is always that chance of life and not death. Just last week there was a woman who was in a coma for quite some some, and the parents didn’t give up. All of a sudden she came out ot it. Where there is breath, there is life. God didn’t bring her this far to leave her now. There is a reason for all of this. Maybe to expose the truth to all the lies that have been spoken. We all are in the hands of God, and if God wanted her to die, He could have taken her a long time ago with or without a feeding tube. Who are we to make a decision to take a child’s life (no matter what the age is),from their parents. We need to pray for Terry to live and not die. I really believe there is a miracle coming to her. Psalms 139 says he knew Terry before she was ever formed and conceived in her mother’s womb, and He has a plan and purpose for her as He has for us. We have a hughe prayer circle going for her and we are standing on His word. Please pray for her life, and don’t speak death to her.
Anonymous (no name then?), because I’ve learned these things I have every intention of continuing to let others know. Just let it be? That’s a real abandonment of one’s own humanity isn’t it – pretending to not see the truth, and even working against it to have an innocent person killed. Heaven forbid.
Just say over Michelle Malkin that they ruled to not investigate the abuse allegations
Judge Greer has also refused the parents’ request to give her food and water by mouth after the feeding tube is removed. He actually had the nerve to call it an “experimental procedure.”
Can we say “cruel and unusual” punishment in it’s truest sense? Hmmm…
where’s the ACLU when you need them? Oh, off protecting some rebel fighter or death row inmate.
How can anyone who has never met Terri’s husband in person say that he is only trying to kill her. Remember the press can be very bias and tend to join whatever side will stir up more emtional tension. Have you simply based you decision on what you read or heard on the tv or newspaper?
I am trying to make my decision about this case asuming that a husband and wife have discussed such matters, simply because life happens.
No one can say for certain that they will live to old age and die peacefully during sleep.
If anything, please let Terri’s case be the reason you let your loved ones and your doctor know how you feel, not only verbally, but in writing as well.
Just saw a news release that Florida Representatives are looking to pass an “Incapacity Persons” Act, which could save Terri. Someone may actually have the two God gave them after all.
Amazing, the ACLU, PETA, Nancy Pelosi et. al would be having a cow (literally) if this were a dog, cat, cow, TERRORIST, fish, bird, etc., etc., etc….
I haven’t seen much here about the very probable cause of her “heart attack”. There is evidence, and documentation by a physician, that Terri was abused. I believe Michael Schiavo tried to kill her that night, and the reason he won’t relinquish Terri to her parents is because he knows that they will have all testing and therapies provided to her, and she may be able one day to point her finger at him and say, “He did this to me!!” Michael has stated he will cremate Terris’ body immediately; why, you might ask? To get rid of the evidence, of course!! He should have to turn her body over to her parents (that is the least he should be required to do). Michael, his attorneys, and Judge Greer will all have to answer to a higher court one day, and they will get their just rewards. Terri will be in the loving arms of our Lord and will finally be able to enjoy her sweet justice provided by her God.
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