February 27, 2006: Lots of Googlers landing on this post! This is last year’s State of the Black Union entry, and I don’t plan on listening to or blogging about the event this year. However, I have a question for people who attended or watched.
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I am listening to the State of the Black Union symposium. Word Faith Bishop Eddie Long is a little over the top with “God raised up Tavis Smiley” stuff, but I’m still listening. Check for updates throughout the day.
“Black people have been raised up to be the conscience of this country,” says Smiley. What does that mean? He says blacks are not a monolith, but there are at least 10 things we can agree on, and these things can be placed in a “Contract with Black America.” I can’t wait to hear what they are.
The time has come for “black folk,” he calls us, to stop being taken for granted by Democrats and Republicans. Smiley sounds like he’s preaching without the Gospel message. He’s preaching about being soldiers. Sounds like something from the 1960s. Oh, no he didn’t say moving “with the quickness.” Haven’t heard that in years.
Smiley reiterates “We are not a monolith,” and “Thank God we don’t all think and act the same.” Got that right, buddy!
Sorry I can’t do quick updates on this. I’m also trying to do other things at the same time, but check back throughout the day.
While Travis is thanking various sponsors, his speech is laced with slang, I presume to show he’s “down” and “keeping it real.” He says the symposium is a chance for black folk to show the world that blacks don’t just, run, shoot (guns or basketballs?), jump, dance and sing. We think, too. Standing O.
For the next symposium, I’m requesting a press pass.
Smiley is thanking thugs in prison for writing to him. “We ain’t forgot about you!” Nice touch. I’ll get to substantive blogging eventually. As soon I hear a substantive message…
Why am I watching this again? Oh, yeah. So I can make an informed assessement of the “State of Black America.” Smiley made a comment about the vice presidential debate when Vice President Cheney and Sen. John Edwards were asked about AIDS “by the one black moderator that got up in there….” What he’s doing here is insinuating that one black moderator wasn’t enough. There should have been many more black moderators “up in there.”
If Smiley were standing in front of me, I’d ask how many black moderators would have been enough to satisfy him. Two? Half the number of moderators? If that were the case, blacks on the moderating panel would have been overrepresented, not underrepresented, as he implies. Anyway, the topic is AIDS. He says neither Cheney nor Edwards knows about the effect of AIDS in the black community.
Update: More blogging later on the state our “black union,” but until then, go visit Christopher Arps at New Leadership Blog. Welcome my new conservative friend to the blogosphere!
Be prepared to puke a few times
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 12:47 pm
In regards to Eddie Long (Yes Word Faith all the way)….
the only thing that came to mind watching that whole farce was “abomination of desolation” regarding the Lord’s House.
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 12:51 pm
I cant wait until you watch the whole thing and post on it its so funny
Comment by shari — 03.07.05 @ 1:07 pm
I listened to it over the weekend. I think I missed the meeting where Tavis Smiley was vote the Black Go-to Guy. By the way, A good book to read is We have no leaders: African Americans in the Post Civil Rights Era by Robert C Smith. Dr. Smith is a Professor of Political Science at San Francisco State University. He is considered a Black Conservative. However, I consider him a realist (I graduated from SFSU in 2003 and I considered him a cool guy and I am not sure whether I am a Conservative or a Liberal, if there is a difference).
When all this is over there will probably be no difference between the “contract” he comes up with and the Contract with Black Americans that was created a few weeks ago. Hopefully, the people will come together and actually create an actual strategy. We have had agendas for years
Comment by Monika Brooks — 03.07.05 @ 1:17 pm
ROFL, Lashawn your blogging of the State Of The Black Union has been hillarious so far, keep it up, plz.
Comment by Scooter — 03.07.05 @ 1:22 pm
Keep it coming La Shawn (this is great).
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 1:26 pm
Thank you for discussing this. Looking forward to future posts about it.
Comment by mj — 03.07.05 @ 1:30 pm
I’ve been busy today…
General comment/question: Why is it that some folks (and my audience is really non-black folks but this could apply to some black folks as well) get so uncomfortable when an event like this is held? Would you (meaning folks in my audience) be less uncomfortable if it were a group of black conservatives having such a meeting?
And I am sure that someone will state that there should be no need for groups that define by race or ethnicity and that as Americans we face the same issues and I wish that were truly so but the fact is in the real world, it just isn’t happening like we wish it to be.
I do think there are a lot of issues in this “Contract with Black America” that dovetail with issues that are relative to the average American but I’m sure that there are some that aren’t.
I’d love to get an unvarnished opinion from folks.
Comment by Tiffany in Minneapolis — 03.07.05 @ 2:00 pm
Well Tiffany, if you “know” what we’re going to say, why ask?
Comment by La Shawn — 03.07.05 @ 2:02 pm
I don’t know what folks are going to say..that’s why I did ask.
Comment by Tiffany in Minneapolis — 03.07.05 @ 2:06 pm
I wonder what would happen if a group of “white folks” had a similar type meeting?
ehhh, do you think it would go over well with our “racially” sensitive skins?
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 2:17 pm
I have a minute by minute of summary of the afternoon session. On my Blog.
First 30 min were introductions.
Next 10 minutes same old same old about we need to do what we need to do we have heard before.
At minute 47 min, once again get our house in order
……. more at my blog tswe.blogspot dot com
Comment by Scott Wickham — 03.07.05 @ 2:18 pm
It probably wouldn’t go over well at all. But I’m sure meetings of like minded people happen all time regardless of race. Playing the advocate here: would it be more palatable if the title of the meeting were race neutral?
Comment by Tiffany in Minneapolis — 03.07.05 @ 2:22 pm
Tiffany,
I just have to comment some more.
“And I am sure that someone will state that there should be no need for groups that define by race or ethnicity and that as Americans we face the same issues and I wish that were truly so but the fact is in the real world, it just isn’t happening like we wish it to be.”
Your comment is part of the reason WHY we are in this postion in America (Black and White alike). “White” folks walk on egg shells and use the Band-aid fix and statement. If it’s not equal and something wrong is going on, work to change the heart and mind to root out the problem. to pretend that we “Black” folks have some sort of special, out of the womb problems just because we are black is ignorant and the ignorance has gone on long enough.
Sorry but enough is enough already with this “we have special needs and problems and healt ” crap. Unless you want to talk to me about Sickle Cell or some other disease that ONLY black folks get the rest is ignorant excuses and have caused and are still causing far worse problems.
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 2:22 pm
Apparently Tavis and crew didn’t feel the need to have white folks there (making it a let’s deal with problem facing Americans forum) because “you all” wouldn’t understand
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 2:25 pm
Renee,
You still didn’t answer the question: is the issue the name or the group of people who chose to assemble?
I believe that there are some problems that plague the black community on a far worse scale than may affect the American population as whole: i.e. AIDS, the black family, education. These problems affect all Americans of course, but affect the black community on a far worse scale that it affects other communities. So it’s going to take us as black people to fix our issues and not depend on others to do it for us. Many issues are self created and can’t be fixed by anyone else.
I think we may be on the same wavelength but maybe arriving at the same conclusion in different ways.
Comment by Tiffany in Minneapolis — 03.07.05 @ 2:37 pm
Scott is killing me with his blow by blow
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 2:40 pm
I am sick and tired of Smily and others bringing up a “Black Agenda”, then saying they want to be “equal”.
This is almost as bad as the breast beating about the Selma march 40 years ago; begging for apologies for the sins of people long dead.
Reliving a 40 year old nightmare will not lead to mental healthy. “Let it go” - Get over it”.
Comment by Frank Zavisca — 03.07.05 @ 2:52 pm
Louis Farahkan, Jesse Jackson, Joycelin Elders…and you’re actually listening to this?!? They say you’re known by the company you keep. I see a hate-monger, an extortionist and the woman who single handedly trashed the position of Surgeon General to the point it’s no longer taken seriously. I can’t say I’d be all that interested in hearings what someone who agreed to speak on the same platform as those three, has to say.
Comment by Jack Lewis — 03.07.05 @ 2:56 pm
Tiffany,
You tell me WHERE IS BLACK AMERICA?
WHO IS A MEMBER of BLACK AMERICA?
Does being half-black make you a member? Doe making a certain amount of money make you a non member? Does being non Democrat and non Liberal exclude you?
Explain all those and maybe you wills ee the falsehood of the SYAE of THE SO CALLED BLACK UNION.
It could have been more aptly called “The STATE OF THOSE BLACKS THAT VOTED FOR KERRY UNION”- It would have acutally been a more factual reprsentation of the event and it’s panel.
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 2:56 pm
Renee, sounds like we agree.
Comment by Jack Lewis — 03.07.05 @ 2:57 pm
Ignorance always chaps my ….
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 2:58 pm
And ruins my typing
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 2:59 pm
Renee,
Don’t get your pressure up. It’s a comment board. There’s no need to shout. LOL.
We don’t have to agree, it’s all good. I might not agree with all the persons on that panel but I can’t say I don’t agree with the notion of discussion.
Comment by Tiffany in Minneapolis — 03.07.05 @ 3:02 pm
And just because I don’t happen to agree with you, there’s no need to get personal with it and call me ignorant. You can keep that.
Comment by Tiffany in Minneapolis — 03.07.05 @ 3:03 pm
LaShawn,
Heard the best Rush show in a long time! It was Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell answering callers. These guys are better than Tavis and all the self apointed leaders. Love to read LaShawn and Michelle, but it is rare treat to hear Williams and Sowell at the same time!
JMB
Comment by James M. Barber — 03.07.05 @ 3:25 pm
No one called YOU ignorant (apparently I do have to shout so you know that)…
the idea of a State of the Black Union is ignorant
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 4:06 pm
So tell me Tiffany…
What special WHITE only problems are out there so we can discuss them?
LOL
I really want to know about the State of the White Union (since there must be one if there is a Black one). How does it (they) differ from the State of the American Union? Please explain because your answers seem to stress that their are differences that are out of the control of individuals.
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 4:09 pm
Renee,
My email is TiffanyTrotter618@yahoo.com and I’d be glad to engage you further after hours. I’m getting called to meeting for the rest of the business day.
Enjoy the rest of your workday!
Comment by Tiffany in Minneapolis — 03.07.05 @ 4:25 pm
I feel like I am watching Crossfire!!
Good arguments by everyone (I think, I got kind of lost).
Comment by Monika Brooks — 03.07.05 @ 4:45 pm
Will do Tiffany and thanks for the lively discussion
Crossfire… that’s good
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 4:49 pm
Everytime I bring up the fact that each ethnic group has it’s own unique experiences in America I get accused of promoting multiculturalism.
There are some realities unique to each ethnic group and it’s illogical to think otherwise. People tend to hold on to what makes them alike, and this is especially so when it comes to such an obvious distinction as ethnicity.
I work with various ethnic groups every day and while each one claims America as home, none of them let go of their roots, and this reflects in dialect, cuisine, entertainment and more.
American Blacks are included in this group despite NOT having a common geographical origin because it’s easier to gather with those like you than to swim against the current. Who can deny that the history of Blacks in America is second only to that of the Native American in terms of social failure resulting from imposed sanction?
Having said that, I believe that the approach to each group in terms of bringing the whole country into even standing across the board needs to vary from group to group. No single teaching approach works for every student a teacher encounters, no single workout regime works for everyone who wants to lose weight, so why would it be any simpler for an entire group of people?
The problem is not subjective approach, it’s that they have not been done correctly. Yes, we all have similar opportunities to succeed and achieve, but throwing money and free stuff at the problem can only make it worse.
The problem starts in the heart and home, and the solution lies in addressing the way people look at themselves and the way others see them.
Comment by Mark La Roi — 03.07.05 @ 5:16 pm
An observation from a white guy that has lots of friend from various ethic groups. I’ve been warmly welcomed to Chinese get togethers where I was the only non-Chinese guy there. I’ve enjoyed the company of Jewish friends, when I was the only gentile there. I’ve hung out with Arab friends, and had a great time, even when I was the only non-Moslem there. It’s great when people are so comfortable with their ethnicity that they are pleased when you want to share in it.
Your ethicity should be something you wear on your chest like a badge on honor, not on your shoulder like a chip. Enjoy what’s yours, and let others enjoy it with you.
Comment by Jack Lewis — 03.07.05 @ 6:13 pm
Jack,
The meeting is/was not about enjoying or not enjoying our “ethnicity” as you put it.
Unless you call “it’s the man and governments fault” as enjoying ethnicity
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 7:25 pm
Tiffany asks why non-black folks are uncomfortable when events like this are held. Well, “uncomfortable” is not a fitting description. Whenever the likes of a Louis Farakkhan is at “any” event, then that event has no good or positive credibility, period. As with any racist cause or event (however disguised), it is to be scorned.
Comment by Dave in AZ — 03.07.05 @ 7:27 pm
Good observation Dave. It seems that there is a confusion between “etnicity” and “racism”…
there is a distinct difference that has been blurred over the past four or more decades (to the point of perversion now)
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 7:30 pm
A long time ago,I remember talking with a therapist about people who consistently blame others for their problems. He said that they are nearly impossible to treat because they “gain” so much from their attitude. Nothing is ever their fault. They have a built in excuse not to exert themselves or take responsibility for accomplishing anything. If this is true for individuals, might it also be true for a whole group?
Comment by Evon Bachaus — 03.07.05 @ 7:38 pm
Hmmm…
No:) But if you watch the State of The Balck Union you might think that
But then you know La Shawn and that blows the theory out of the water.
However it can become prevalent I would guess in a family/community and down thru generations if no intervention occurs and another “role model” and or life choice is shown.
If that makes sense
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 7:42 pm
Evon,
Did your therapist explain, or give a reason why such a condition would occur?
Comment by Ken — 03.07.05 @ 7:47 pm
“You people” are cute when you are angry.
[Did I mean girls, Blacks or bloggers?]
Comment by Walter E. Wallis — 03.07.05 @ 8:14 pm
There really are a couple of valid reasons for drawing lines and separating parts of society from one another. Separate but equal. You know the drill.
First, there is the irreconcilable difference between dog people and cat people. Cat people say things like, “It’s a cat thing; you wouldn’t understand.” And dog people arrogantly say stuff like, “Love me, love my dog.” It’s obvious these two groups will never integrate.
A second, and much more serious, schism exists between American League and National League fans. Now, I’m sure there are many things about the American League fans that are good and worthy, even if I can’t think of any right now. Oh, and some of my best friends are American League fans. But as everyone knows, the National League is just, well, better.
But other than those two things, I can’t come up with any really good “us vs. them” reasons.
Comment by RedBeard — 03.07.05 @ 8:46 pm
Renee, you’re on a roll today
The reason I get uncomfortable is that sooner or later, the accusations will fly out that there’s a vast white man conspiracy out to hold blacks back and that’s why we have the problem that we do. I am sooo not interested in the blame game.
The State of the Black Union would accomplish more if they simply utilized the “OODA Loop” (Observation, Orientation, Decision, Action).
Comment by Andy — 03.07.05 @ 9:07 pm
How about PC vs MAC with the PC being the superior of the two, but everyone knows that
Comment by Ken — 03.07.05 @ 9:07 pm
It’s definitely Monday
Busy day in La Shawn’s house
Comment by Renee — 03.07.05 @ 9:12 pm
Evon,
Now you’re generalizing. Do better than that, dear.
Comment by Tiffany in Mpls — 03.07.05 @ 11:17 pm
So, do those who have “separation complaints” about Smiley’s “contract” have the same complaints about the “conservative Black contract”?
Comment by DarkStar — 03.07.05 @ 11:32 pm
Amen to that Andy,
One we will move past agendas and go towards the implementation of ideas
Monika
Oakland, CA
Comment by Monika Brooks — 03.07.05 @ 11:58 pm
Ken, We didn’t discuss how the person got that way, only that once the habit of blaming others is developed, it is nearly impossible to break. As I remember it, another “reward” people build into this mind set is, “Since other people are being unfair to me, I don’t have to follow rules either.” At the time I was dealing with a woman who used the “I’ve had such a hard life…. Nobody knows the troubles, I’ve seen…. If I have a terrible temper, it’s only because other people…. Since life has gone so wrong for me, I am entitled to…. etc.” She was truly miserable and stuck in a rut. Probably the wisest thing for me would have been to try to get her to see this therapist or another one-although I’m sure she would have felt that she didn’t need one. I tried to bring it up with one her and one of her doctors when I took her to an appointment but since this was off the cuff it went no where. Since then, I’ve noticed the “syndrome” or whatever it is in other people and sometimes Black activist leaders sound to me to be a little on the same order.
Comment by Evon Bachaus — 03.08.05 @ 12:40 am
Why would anyone be “uncomfortable” faced with the prospect of listening to a bunch of irrational [racist] thinkers listing fictionally stated [racistsly framed] problems “solved” by irrelevant/no solutions or even vague exhortations, all presupposing an effectively racist explanation of “self”? Gee, I can’t imagine why.
The comparable Conservative Black group would be expected to make the exact point that race has nothing to do with it by their own example. Unless, of course, the problem involves being susceptible to irrational thinkers who think racistically, thus necessarily disablingly - using, perhaps, the zero sum, arbitrary group-as-self victim/oppressor/savior schema.
You either solve problems realistically based upon individual action, suggesting things like vouchers, or you are a group “victim” and demand things like reparations or groupistic/racist programs.
And the conference should be more revealing called “The State of African American America” to suggest the kind of “help” proposed by the noble saviors: induced ambivalence, isolation from the white enemy society, necessary powerlessness, and questions about the very validity or equality of self in comparison to whites, and as though it has something to do with race.
Comment by J. Peden — 03.08.05 @ 1:14 am
The meeting is/was not about enjoying or not enjoying our “ethnicity” as you put it.
Unless you call “it’s the man and governments fault” as enjoying ethnicity
Renee, I was responding to Mark La Roi’s comment, not making a statement about the conference.
If your “ethnicity” is all about bitterness and blaming others, it’s prtty hard to share. If it’s about being proud of who you are, and honoring those in the past that have made is a distinction of pride, then that’s pretty easy to share.
The conference sounded to me like the former — don’t let it rob you of the latter.
Comment by Jack Lewis — 03.08.05 @ 6:43 am
You heard it here first: The contract with Black America that will be created with Tavis Smiley (how he became a spokesman for Black people is beyond me) will look almost the same as the one created a few weeks ago. The only difference is the way it will be spun by their respective authors.
Comment by Monika Brooks — 03.08.05 @ 9:35 am
Evon I asked because I see the victimization (If that is a word)on such a grand scale. I think Tavis draws such a crowd because no one is offering an alternative. Like the Republicans bringing moral values into the election, the issue has been there for years, but no one addressed it. I believe/know that there are serious problems in the black community (crime, poverty, fatherless, to name a few), and to ignore it and say that it does not exist, would be a huge error by Americans. Being a Christian the statement that sticks out in my mind was the one made by Farrakhan “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”
Even though I disagree with him on a lot of issues, that scripture puts us on common ground, and was one of the few clarifying moments of that conference.
Comment by ken — 03.08.05 @ 9:45 am
Should have edited that last one before I put it up. Anyway you get the idea!!
Comment by ken — 03.08.05 @ 9:55 am
As I am reading the comments about the “State of the Black Union” I am amazed that alot of you are missing the “big picture” and the main point of the broadcast…people are discussing and exchanging ideas about the subject. When LaShawn had her previous post about this subject I asked the general question, “What happened to the free exchange of ideas?” For a person that would say that because Minister Farrakhan is involved with something it loses all credibility is laughable. He spoke of some of the same principles that George W. Bush talks about, God, family, and an ownership society. I may not agree with how he wants the black community to achieve ownership by seperating, but him talking about that principle is good, maybe another person can offer a better means to achieve it. Knowledge can be gained from ANY source as long as YOU are informed enough to know the difference between knowledge and rhetoric.
As far as the commentors that are basically saying stop making this a racial thing I would ask the question, is it wrong for a group with similar interests to get together and attempt to establish some shared goals? If the 3 or 4 major motion picture production companies come together and say that “We as the Motion Picture Association want something”, does that mean that they represent every other motion picture maker? How many times do you think that the major movie houses said, “We should not be making these decsions without the equal input of the independant movie makers?” Would it be wrong for the independants to form their own group focused on their issues? As Republicans (or Democrats under Clinton) have taken control of two branches of government, are any of them crying out “I don’t think that we should be having discussions amongst ourselves only, we should not be seperating ourselves from the other party!” Is it wrong for the minority party to come together and look out for its own interests? Why is there a problem with people in the black community doing the same thing?
There ARE issues that are unique to the black community…How about this one: Whites in America have been participating in free market capitalism for almost 400 years, knowledge has been passed down through generations. Until the 1960s there were still laws on the books to prevent blacks from participating fairly in America. Some of the problems in the black community can be associated to not having as much shared knowledge about capitalism, wealth building, and responsible money management as whites. That’s where fiscal conservatives come in, by saying “Of this agenda you speak…education about fiscal responsibility and wealth creation MUST be a part.” Social conservatives can say “In this agenda education about Faith, family values, and marriage MUST be a part.”
Stop attacking and discounting the forum and add to it…
Comment by M. Woodward — 03.08.05 @ 9:59 am
So basically Ken you yourself admit…
The answer is right in front of our faces but we are looking to some magic government program (according to Tavis et al) to fix us when we all know…
No one is ignoring the problem however you yourself quoted what Farrakan said which is 2 Chron 7:14. The fact remains “my people” don’t want to listen to the obvious answer… why…
because it’s tooo hard. We want the wide, easy gate, not the straight, narrow, hard gate.
You can’t even come to the table of the “State of the Black Union” unless it is with a band-aid fix that masks the true problems (which was evident in their lack of speakers with a wide range of view points).
the other thing that is eveident… it was “all talk, and no action” (as usual).
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 10:10 am
M. Woodard..
You are right..it is not wrong for a “group” with similar interest to get together…
but call it what it is. The State of those “blacks” who don’t like Bush” or “the Stae of those Blacks who want whatever”…
but to say State of the Black Union is misleading and wrong and does not represent nearly “half” of the Blacks in my family or that I know.
Who’s missing the point?
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 10:31 am
For me I believe Christ is the answer, but I to struggle sometimes with the specifics, the exact directions that Black Americans should take. We continue to look for the Gov because for a large part of Black America, that is all we know. From the Projects, to Head Start, to Foodlines, remember it was the Federal Gov that got us into schools, so it is natural for Blacks to look to the Gov for guidance. Why do you think Blacks are freaking out over Bush’s Soc Sec plan. That is our retirement, that is their/our investment.
Like MLK “I see difficult days ahead”!!
For Tavis’s “show” I am hopeful that some type of action/movement positive change comes from it.
But my hope rest in Christ, I have seen nothing yet to change that.
Comment by ken — 03.08.05 @ 10:56 am
M. Woodard: “Whites in America have been participating in free market capitalism for almost 400 years, knowledge has been passed down through generations. Until the 1960s there were still laws on the books to prevent blacks from participating fairly in America. Some of the problems in the black community can be associated to not having as much shared knowledge about capitalism, wealth building, and responsible money management as whites.”
Repeat that 5 times then explain how Douglass, Booker, George Carver, Madame CJ Walker, and scores of black innovators, thinkers, millionaires and what have you got where they did under slavery/Jim Crow conditions.
It’s hard to share and pass on knowledge when the intended recipients are not interested, either for fear of acting white (learning & critical thinking) or because thousands are dedicating their misspent youth on the pro-sports/entertainment lottery (many chances - few winners).
As long as this mentality is encouraged, too many blacks will fail to rise above their circumstances, hence disportionately relegated to the lower tiers of society. What black youths need is to embrace the Horatio Alger meme wholeheartedly as part of their psyche. We’ll never get that from the leading contributors to SOTBU puppetmasters.
Comment by Andy — 03.08.05 @ 11:05 am
Renee,
I did watch the broadcast and of course when you have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on the same stage there will be some “Bush-bashing” but, there was also criticizm of the Democratic Party (not much, but some).
What I am saying is that is maybe Jesse Jackson doesn’t represent your views, but maybe Vashti Murphy-McKenzie, first female Bishop in the African Methodist Episcopal Church does. Maybe Minister Farrakhan doesn’t represent your parent’s or grandparent’s views, but maybe Marie Smith, President of the AARP does.
The point is, the forum as a whole may not represent you, but pieces of it might. Outside of political beliefs, there was an assembly of prominent people in this country (black or otherwise) including the two women I mentioned before, two former Presidential candidates, the founder of the SCLC, a Princeton Professor, and the leader of the Nation of Islam, expressing thier ideas in an open forum. If one thinks there is absolutly nothing to be learned, agree or disagree with those ideas, I say you are blinded to by ideology not based in fact.
What difference does the title of the forum make?
Comment by M. Woodward — 03.08.05 @ 11:16 am
I watched it also M. Woodard. Two points of view…
you saw good dialogue, I saw five minutes of good point being made, followed by 30 minutes or more of the Blame Game.
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 11:28 am
Well said Andy!
And I am offically done with this topic (I have some people in need to help out).
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 11:30 am
Andy,
I am talking about widespread knowledge to the community as a whole. The mentality you speak of is a direct symptom of that lack of knowledge. The mentality is “I am ignorant of what you are doing, so I will mock it.” Frederick Douglass and some of the others you mentioned had unusual access to education not available to the general slave/Jim Crow black populace. This is not a crutch I am speaking of, for someone that has not been even exposed to certain knowledge, you can’t just say “Get over yourself, Frederick Douglass did it, why can’t you.” How many other potential innovators laid dormant during those periods because of no exposure to education? Even to the point of being beaten and killed for attempting to gain an education? Don’t you think it possible that those seeds of a negative view of education may still be blooming today? How would more of a focus on how money works in this country and what it takes to aquire it (as alternative to Music, Sports, and the lottery) benefit inner city public school children that may be forming that mentality?
So please, spare me your myopic, they did it so you do it conceit.
Comment by M. Woodward — 03.08.05 @ 11:37 am
M. Woodard,
I AM talking about widespread knowledge as a whole being “dissed” by the community as a whole. This results in the corresponding rate of failure for blacks and the resulting blame game, that focuses on the symptoms rather than the cause. I assure you, it’s a common post hoc ergo proctor hoc fallacy of so-called black leaders and those who blindly follow the racist screed.
myopic
adj 1: unable to see distant objects clearly [syn: nearsighted]
[ant: farsighted]
2: lacking foresight or scope; “a short view of the problem”;
“shortsighted policies”; “shortsighted critics derided the
plan”; “myopic thinking” [syn: short, shortsighted, unforesightful]
it is myopic to think mo’ money needs to be thrown at the school system for programs that have nothing to do with rigorous education. By rigorous, I mean the self-discipline to study so as to not be ashamed of the truth that critical thinking will expand your horizons.
Of course no one can boot-strap themselves if they don’t see the value. Do you really think that Civil Rights would have come about if there were not thousands of blacks who have shown the way apriori as to what could be accomplished? The eloquent MLK, for example, was not a product of AA & CR.
All too often, the prevailing attitude seems to be — “we’ve done our part as slaves”. That once the goal of civil rights as a legal matter was attained, blacks collectively sat back and said gimme that piece of the pie, never realizing that other ethnic groups continue to forge ahead, driven by the thirst for knowledge & opportunities.
So please, spare us your victicratism, they did it cause they were privileged/puppets/house N****s conceit.
Comment by Andy — 03.08.05 @ 12:39 pm
Thank You Andy!!!!
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 1:04 pm
No, Renee, thank you!
Comment by Andy — 03.08.05 @ 1:06 pm
M. Woodard,
You say:
“How many other potential innovators laid dormant during those periods because of no exposure to education?”
I ask you,
“How many taught themselves and went on to become Congressman, Senators, Doctors, Lawyers, etc?”
This all happened during and after slavery. During Jim Crow and after Jim Crow. For some reason “we” (some) in the Black community want to hide that fact because then we would have to face the fact that we actually can do under extreme conditions, which would allevaite blaming “the man” for our every problem and then… our safety net would be GONE.
This I believe is really the heart of the matter… the good ole safety net. the one our ancestors did not have and seemed to accomplish so much more without it.
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 1:12 pm
Andy,
There was no attempt at all to play the “blame game” as you put it. One of the reasons blacks were mobilized during the civil rights movement is they understood clearly what the benefits of the movement being successful were to them. I did not ask for more money to be spent on education, just more of a focus. Maybe after the semester of sex education (which doesn’t belong in the schools), there can be a semester on real world economics, not just the theoretical stuff in some textbook. Maybe if kids see there can be a real world payoff, they will clearly understand the benefit to them of rigorous education.
Renee:
You cannot compare the accomplishments of a few to the state of the entire group. Why isn’t every white person a Congressmen, Senator, doctor, or lawyer? Some strive and are driven to achieve those ends, some aren’t. The question is why aren’t more blacks interested in a basic post secondary education to equip themselves properly for which ever field they decide to enter.
Renee and Andy:
If all of this is because blacks want to “blame whitey” and don’t want to “lose thier saftey net”, how do you explain the same conditions in the rural white areas of the country? Why don’t they ALL strive to become highly educated critcial thinkers, doctors, lawyers and politicians?
Yes, sir, I do believe that your views on this subject are myopic because you think it is just a black problem.
Comment by M. Woodward — 03.08.05 @ 2:16 pm
M.W., I think you’re exactly right; it’s not a black problem. Just look around at the abject poverty of those white people at the bottom of the heap. Check out the welfare rolls and notice that there are more whites than blacks.
The reasons for poverty today rest upon factors other than race. And we must then conclude that we’re all in this together, to sink or swim as a whole society.
Comment by RedBeard — 03.08.05 @ 3:08 pm
M Woodward:
YOU ROCK!!!!
Comment by Tiffany in Minneapolis — 03.08.05 @ 3:27 pm
M. Woodard,
Accomplishments of a few?
Goes to show, our schools and our communities are failing miserably.
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 3:47 pm
…And I mean failing in the fact of passing down real history and accomplishments (becauswe of course, that would blow the current myth that is a lie out the window).
Oh well. More power to you.
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 3:48 pm
Renee:
I was speaking historically, not present day , as you were when you said “How many taught themselves to be…”
Comment by M. Woodward — 03.08.05 @ 3:52 pm
Great discussion going on here today. I’m “listening.”
And so are many others. I hope this serves as an example to those who say I allow no dissent on this blog. There is a right (respectful) and wrong (disrespectful) way of doing things in this world.
Comment by La Shawn — 03.08.05 @ 3:55 pm
RedBeard and M. Woodard..
First the point most have been making is, it is not a Black problem (hence the lunacy of the State of the Black Union)
Second…
Yes their are problems that go across all lines such as povery however, everyone is not in poverty or poor for the same reasons. Just like everyone who is overwieht is not overweight for the same reasons so there is no band-aid magic cure.
So throwing government funds for the band aid fix won’t work, has shown it does not work and will never work.
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 3:55 pm
Good thing I am working nights this week La Shawn or I would miss a lot of these great posts this week.
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 3:57 pm
M. Woodward: your reference that my opinion about Farrakhan is “laughable” shows me that your actually believing he expounds “principles” for the common good of all is “laughable”. Thus for me, your voluminous commentaries also lack credibility.
Comment by Dave in AZ — 03.08.05 @ 4:31 pm
Andy said:
Repeat that 5 times then explain how Douglass, Booker, George Carver, Madame CJ Walker, and scores of black innovators, thinkers, millionaires and what have you got where they did under slavery/Jim Crow conditions.
And then, explain the buckra living in the Ozarks, providing the grist for all of the hillbilly jokes and urban legends. Then explain the trailer parks and tract homes built along the Mississippi’s flood path, flood after flood.
Explain how generations of knowledge passed down by their white forebears have granted these folks such wisdom and/or financial acumen.
When people don’t care, or don’t believe in themselves, they go nowhere. What I didn’t hear much of in Smiley’s sate of the union, was much motivation to look inside and find the good and affirming parts. But a lot of finger pointing to external factors and people. Boogermen and self fulfilling messages of victimhood.
But your mileage may vary.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 03.08.05 @ 4:33 pm
Renee:
At no point in any of my posts have I eluded to government funds being thrown at the problem. Government cannot solve these problems, but, it is imperative to understand the causes of the situation in order to formulate a solution.
It is not the same set of circumstances that has led some blacks and rural whites into these situations, therefore the solution may be the same (education), but getting the groups to buy into that solution is the key. What do these groups need to hear so they get the “What’s in it for me?” need satisfied? I submit that whatever it is, it is probably different for each group. Which to tie it all together, is something that the “State of the Black Union” can be good for. Do you think that their would be objections by educated whites to the “State of the Rural Union?” Maybe the people that would complain about the title are NOT the target audience for whatever is being discussed. Or, maybe, those people could even add thier opinion into the mix of other opinions to get a full picture of the State of that Union. Now you are talking about a complete State of a Union.
Comment by M. Woodward — 03.08.05 @ 4:41 pm
Dave:
After all of the discussion that has happened since that post…that’s what you choose to challenge me on?
How you decide to interpret the very clear point I was making is your decision. But, the fact that the only thing you have added to this conversation is Louis Farrakhan is a racist, is…all together now…laughable and IN-credible.
SCSIWuzzy:
Can’t argue with that!
Comment by M. Woodward — 03.08.05 @ 4:50 pm
M. Woodard,
I asked that yesterday regarding a State of the White Union”
Government funds and it’s the man’s fault is addressed because that was the ultimate gist after all the grand standing at the actual event on the 26th.
Back to helping my son with homework (which I didn’t hear the State of the Black Union address)
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 4:54 pm
Despite any truth that comes out of Farrakhan’s mouth, he certainly can be considered a racist. I use qualifying language because I don’t like to throw the word “racist” around. And while not wanting to get into theological discussions on this thread, what the Nation of Islam believes (that blacks existed millennia before whites, who were “blue-eyed” devils created in a lab, and blacks are waiting for the mothership, or some such?) is comical.
Despite the difference of opinion you have with Dave, M. Woodard, his view is not laughable.
Comment by La Shawn — 03.08.05 @ 4:58 pm
LaShawn:
I would concede that point.
Dave:
Being that I am not a Muslim and I don’t “follow” Louis Farrakhan, I listened to his message on the broadcast in question and heard him praising some the same ideals as Christian conservatives. Credibility is in the eye of the beholder…
Comment by M. Woodward — 03.08.05 @ 5:11 pm
M. Woodward: well excuse me - let’s see, what you add to the conversation you define as a “very clear point” and my point (as you “first” stated) is laughable. Then let me be the one to first humble myself before such astuteness and conclude this useless exchange. This just illustrates why the divide is still so great.
Comment by Dave in AZ — 03.08.05 @ 5:13 pm
Still we must fight, Dave.
Comment by La Shawn — 03.08.05 @ 5:16 pm
BTW…
when I said “How many taught themselves to read and be….”
I was talking historically also M. Woodard
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 5:22 pm
LaShawn,
I think you know where I come from. I have no tolerance for hate that divides the races. If I turned on C-Span and saw a white union forum with so-called white dignitaries and David Duke was on the panel, the credibility of the whole event is tainted. The unity I care most about, live and strive everyday for is that of Christ’s church.
Comment by Dave in AZ — 03.08.05 @ 5:26 pm
Amen Dave…
because when He divides us, it won’t be along racial lines.
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 5:28 pm
Maybe we should ask a different question?
Why is the state of the citizens of this union diminished into an Oppression Olympics? Maybe the President’s State of the Union is not as accurate to some as others.
Should their be a State of the white union? No Should Black citizens have a separate agenda? No, it’s just as silly in my opinion. It seems as if We (Black citizens) are are entitled to something more than other Americans.
We should ask this question, In my opinion:
If there is a discrepancy in different communities, What can be done to fix it? By different communities, I am referring to communities in which things are socially, Morally and economically unequal. I don’t think it needs to be Ethnically/Gender specific.
It’s bad all over, what do we do about it?
Monika
Comment by Monika Brooks — 03.08.05 @ 6:00 pm
Sorry for the typos
Comment by Monika Brooks — 03.08.05 @ 6:00 pm
Dave:
Aw come here ya big lug, lemme buy you a beer. LaShawn has already slapped my hand so I’ll make nice.
I was just saying that be it Louis Farrakhan or David Duke, if they say something that makes me think, I can say he maybe a racist, but that was a good point. Not only that I prefer to know exactly where someone stands so I can better recognize when they have a moment (however brief) of clarity. The Art of War says that you should always learn the ways of your enemy, and I use term enemy figuratively.
Monika:
You are right, things are bad all over. I don’t think there is a magic bullet answer that will work for all people.
Comment by M. Woodward — 03.08.05 @ 6:33 pm
At no point in any of my posts have I eluded to government funds being thrown at the problem. Government cannot solve these problems, but, it is imperative to understand the causes of the situation in order to formulate a solution.
The Faith Based policies being pushed is gov’t funds being thrown at the problem. But not much opposition there, right?
Funny thing is, I’ve listened to Smiley over the years and when he talks about the Black community needing to address HIV/AIDS, crime, education, health, business creation, ITSELF, “conservatives” say not a word.
The “State of the Union” appears and people’s heads start to just a spinnin’!
But. Not. One. Negative. Word. about the “conservative Black contract with America”, as if that ain’t separate?
And an item from that contract, can someone tell me WHY it is that the Sudan is a Black concern and not a humanitarian concern?
Have I mentioned that I first learned about the Sudan from TransAfrica YEARS ago?
Comment by DarkStar — 03.08.05 @ 8:27 pm
M. Woodward; a beer (or peace pipe), I’m cool with either. I listen carefully over a “long” period to what someone expounds (and more importantly, practices). The men we have mentioned (in my view) have long been like-minded hate mongers. Only their skin color and target is different. A person’s heart can only be truely changed through confession and submission to Jesus Christ. Be blessed.
Comment by Dave in AZ — 03.08.05 @ 8:31 pm
Not a word about AIDS DS?
Last I checked, Abstinence would have done WONDERS for the majority (I say majotity not all but at least 90%) of AIDS cases we now see.
Who was fighting tooth and nail when that was proposed? Hey, there is an answer, if you don’t want to believe it or listen to it…
Comment by Renee — 03.08.05 @ 8:52 pm
M. Woodward, I agree that sometimes a sliver of truth can be gleaned from either Duke or Farrakhan. Nevertheless, coming from them, it’s akin to digging for pearls in the pigpen.
Slight tangent, but I assure you there’s a connection this discussion and with the State of liberal education.
Hae any of you read the original Tarzan novels? Have you ever wondered about the implicit superior racism in that an ape-boy teaches himself to make sense of the written word from books left behind by his parents and wonders of wonder, ape-boy even learns to speak the Queen’s English all by himself? Interesting subliminal message here that the apes and natives have no interest in such “abstracts”, yet a widdle white lad is imbued with the innate desire to edumacate himself.
I know it’s ridiculous, but this is fundamentally the same tack promoted by the education elite. White kids need to be forcibly integrated with minority kids. What? So some of that innate-ness might rub off?
Sad truth is that separate and scholastically equal schools had better results in their heydey. granted it would have been nice if they were financially equal, but that’s neither here nor there.
Nowadays, rather then teach in a structured fashion, the touchy-feely mindset is to let the students define their educational framework. If Tarzan was real, he’d be the self-paced poster boy for unhooked by phonics.
This is the same unhinged mentality that lets kids be accountable only to themseles and then we wonder about the lack of discipline and civility and again, the corresponding rate in underachievement. This is the byproduct of a generation that said “question authority”. And by that, “reject authority”, and not the critical analysis implied.
Regardless of the current state of affairs, real change can only come about with the young kids. Unfortunately for the older school kids and people already set in their ways, barring a personal decision to change, they are a lost cause as far as making it in the real world. All the money and all the king’s men aren’t going to set things right for the educationally damaged.
This is where the real battle for the hearts and minds of our society lies and the liberal elites have made a royal mess of two generations in their grand experiment. The only way forward is back to the fundamental basics.
As for your comment:
“there can be a semester on real world economics, not just the theoretical stuff in some textbook. Maybe if kids see there can be a real world payoff, they will clearly understand the benefit to them of rigorous education.
&
The question is why aren’t more blacks interested in a basic post secondary education to equip themselves properly for which ever field they decide to enter”
The answer is that kids can listen to sermons all day long, but unless some authority figure starts cracking the whip and banging heads, the message is just going to leak out of their open-minded heads.
Kid says to himself: “Safe sex, real world economics, knowledge is power, blah-blah, yeah, yeah. I’m gonna be a pimp daddy cause they’re the ones keepin’ it real.”
Ironically, what IS innate is that kids crave external displinary forces. So if PC education lacks the backbone to maintain a culture of discipline for fear of hurt feelings. So while we recoil at the horror of authoritative enforced discipline. Then kids will gravitate to any other sub-culture that won’t hesitate to enforce it by the rule of knife and gun. And if that result is dismal, so be it, but at least the kid knows his rank & place.
Now I’m starting to ramble, but I hope you get the big cause & effect picture
Comment by Andy — 03.08.05 @ 9:23 pm
Renee, I mentioned HIV/AIDS. I don’t get your point.
Funny thing is, I’ve listened to Smiley over the years and when he talks about the Black community needing to address HIV/AIDS, crime, education, health, business creation, ITSELF, “conservatives” say not a word.
Comment by DarkStar — 03.08.05 @ 9:53 pm
I think we get to hear the State of the White Union every year a Republican president is in office. I think we get to hear what massa’ thinks his folks need every year a Democratic president is in office. A pox on both their houses! We need a third party that can break free from all the other two’s baggage. In some ways, they’re both just a step above the Communist party in China.
Comment by stan — 03.11.05 @ 5:53 pm
How come Condi wasn’t at this event? Because if blacks aren’t Liberals then they’re “house slaves” and not welcome.
need we say more Tiffany?
Comment by Carlos — 03.12.05 @ 11:08 am
Condi wasn’t there because she’s the Sec of State and has far greater issues and responsibilities on her plate. Had nothing to do with politics.
Comment by stan — 03.12.05 @ 5:20 pm
>>>”Condi wasn’t there because she’s the Sec of State and has far greater issues and responsibilities on her plate. Had nothing to do with politics.”
Ok, so were there any black conservatives there? Or did they all have greater responsibilities too.
Comment by Carlos — 03.13.05 @ 1:10 am
Hi La Shawn,
Great Blog, Congrats on your site!!
First I want to say that I watched the State of the Black Union on C-Span. Though I’m a white, I care deeply about the African-American perspective, as well as the rest of the worlds perspective. Being married to an African-American woman and raising three bi-racial sons, I want my children to grow up in a world that is equal and just!! All that being said, here’s my take on the whole thing…..
I thought the entire thing was a sham!! All they did was bash conservatives and the conservative agenda while the only solutions they offered were todays black “so-called” leaders and the democratic party. With everything African-Americans have overcome from slavery, to Jim Crow Laws, to the civil rights movement - you’d have thought that Tavis and these so-called leaders would have expressed a little more self pride instead saying that black people need democrats to survive….
The conservative movement has so much more to offer African-Americans.. Given everything African-Americans have overcome the speakers should have spoken about an uplifting theme of self-empowerment, personal pride, and responsiblity. Unfortunately that would have been more appropriate for the Republican Agenda so instead they preached that republicans and conservatives were evil and that black people need democrats to survive.
All I need for my kids is a chance - they can compete with anyone and accomplish anything they set their minds to!! They don’t need nor want a hand out or any special favors because these things don’t make people strong - they make them weak and dependent on others - and that is exactly what the democratic party has offered. Not real chances but handouts, not tax breaks for small businesses, but a culture of dependency.
Yes the Republican wasn’t always what it is today, and there were segregationists in our party too, but today we’ve taken the party back from those people so I don’t understand what Smiley’s beef is!!!
We need a small government and opportunities - and it doesn’t matter what ethnic background you come from to appreciate that!!!
Comment by Dan — 03.13.05 @ 3:36 pm
Carlos,
I wasn’t commenting on the makeup of the conference. I was only commenting on Sec. Rice.
Comment by stan — 03.13.05 @ 5:01 pm
From what I’ve gathered by reading these posts and other available information, the conference was called for and by liberal black people. That’s fine, for people with similar political and social agendas to meet, informally and outside of public office.
But I’m a bit puzzled by the comments criticizing Dr. Rice and other conservatives for not attending. Since conservatives would have little in common with the agenda of the meeting, and in fact were being roundly attacked, why would they want to participate?
For conservatives to attend would have been a bit like the old joke Slappy White used to tell about being in the olympics as a javelin catcher.
Comment by RedBeard — 03.13.05 @ 5:33 pm