A reader asked what the difference was between black conservatives and black liberals. The answer may be obvious to most of us but less so to those who don’t follow politics or engage in daily online discussions as we do at LBC.
Last year Roger Clegg, a former contributor to National Review Online and Vice President and General Counsel of the Center for Equal Opportunity, sent me a copy of an article he’d written for The Georgetown Journal of Law & Public Policy, titled Black Culture And Black Conservative Thought: Toward An Anthology. Divided into four parts, the article examines the goals of race relations, the role of “black culture” in achieving the goals, the suggestion that an anthology of “conservative black thought” would be a valuable contribution to racial progress, and a review of a book called Dimensions of Black Conservatism in the United States.
One of the most controversial arguments Clegg makes is that black culture itself, not racism and discrimination, is the underlying reason for “white bias and disproportionate underachievement” of blacks in school and the workplace. Such talk evokes untold outrage among blacks, especially coming from a white man, but Clegg qualifies his statement. He’s referring specifically to disproportionately high illegitimacy rates, crime, substance abuse, and “anti-intellectualism.” These things affect society as a whole, but the operative word here is disproportionately. Relative to the general population, social pathologies impact a larger number of blacks and impact them to a greater degree.
Many times and in many ways, I write about the same things on this blog. In fact, when I used to write my column (the blog took over), I often addressed these subjects. (Are you new to the blog? If so, you probably didn’t know I used to write a regular, bi-weekly column. See this archive.) From these articles the angry e-mails flowed.
Whenever unpleasant facts are presented, whether the subject is blacks, Hispanics, homosexuals, criminals (including illegal aliens), etc., the reaction is always defensive. “Racist” and “homophobe” often follow criticism of certain behavior. One of the reasons I write what I write and say what I say is that I am not afraid of angry people. As long as truth emerges, I consider myself a mere messenger, expendable for a greater good.
Clegg discusses the “rich tradition of black conservative thought,” including the work of Booker T. Washington. Washington’s nemesis, so to speak, W.E.B. Du Bois, also had conservative leanings. Clegg writes:
Du Bois had no patience with what lawyers now call the “disparate impact” approach to civil rights: the notion that nondiscriminatory standards somehow become discriminatory if they disproportionately affect racial minorities. So long as you did not use race, Du Bois urged that we “[d]raw lines of crime, of incompetence, of vice, as tightly and uncompromisingly as you will, for these things must be proscribed….” Nor is his book consistent with today’s affirmative action because he yearned for “a morning when men ask of the workman, not ‘Is he white?’ but ‘Can he work?’ When men ask artists, not ‘Are they black?’ but ‘Do they know?’”
Certain blacks have convinced themselves and will try to convince anyone who’ll listen that the scourge of racism is a hovering dark cloud forever impeding the black man’s success. I know people on and offline who think and talk this way, to varying degrees. The underlying message is the same: whites will not “allow” blacks to achieve. A perfect example is Tavis Smiley’s “State of the Black Union.” Twenty minutes into the video, I already know where it’s going. But I will continue to watch and listen. Begrudgingly.
Clegg also suggests that a compilation of black conservative writing would be worthwhile. The book would include sections on family, law and crime, education, work and the economy, pride and faith, and emphasize that marriage is good and promiscuity and illegitimacy are bad. (Good and bad? Who are you to judge?!) The book must also contain the message that crime is “inexcusable” and academic achievement and plain old hard work is essential for black progress.
He lists a number of blacks who are conservatives or have expressed conservative ideals, such as Clarence Thomas, Glenn Loury, Ward Connerly, Malcolm X, Star Parker, John McWhorter, Ralph Ellison, Orlando Patterson and Debra Dickerson. There are many others.
The final section of Clegg’s article is a review of Dimensions of Black Conservatism in the United States. Clegg said he had high hopes that the book would be similar to the one he suggested. While it discusses some of the above-mentioned writers’ work, it does so disparagingly. Clegg writes:
[T]he essays in the book generally treat black conservatism as dangerous and pathological and do not define or analyze it honestly. Of course if one defines conservatism as simply favoring the political status quo — as some of the contributors do — then it is not surprising that there have been few black conservatives during much of American history, when the status quo meant slavery and segregation. Indeed, if favoring the political status quo is part of what conservatism connotes, that interpretation would explain why so many blacks shy away from anything labeled conservative.
But we “black conservatives” know what we stand for has nothing to do with preserving human subjugation and racism and everything to do with being responsible for our own behavior and striving to be men and women of high character no matter what we face.
Clegg says that Dimensions is “relentless in criticizing black conservatives,” but notes one exception. A writer named Sherri Smith gives the matter a more evenhanded treatment. Here is where we get to the meat of what separates the black conservative from the black liberal. The concept of self-help is prevalent in conservative thought. Smith writes that conservatives also believe the individual is not created by his race category, that America is a land of opportunity, that whites are not an omniscient power, that knowledge comes from individual reasoning rather than collective awareness, etc.
Smith’s conclusion provides the most direct “points of contrast” between black conservatives and liberals I’ve read in awhile:
We (black conservatives) seize opportunities whereas they (civil rights advocates and black nationalists) fear opportunities. We prepare for success but they resent it. We prefer for African Americans (Ed. note: Ugh!) to be winners; they encourage us to be losers….We reject victim status; those leaders encourage a victim status. We are independent thinkers who recognize the humanity of whites; they are slaves who believe whites and white racism to be omnipotent. Finally, we fight for intellectual, cultural, and political freedom; they fear this freedom and fight against it.
Although very broad and general, this kernel of truth is what separates the black conservative from his liberal counterpart. Roger Clegg sent this article many months ago, but I didn’t have time to read it. I found it a few days ago buried under other papers and decided to read it. I hadn’t planned on blogging about it, but after receiving the e-mail from a curious new reader, I knew I had to.
In the tradition of Booker T. Washington and all the black conservatives who came before me, I proudly count myself among their number.
{ 9 trackbacks }
{ 57 comments }
Thanks for posting this La Shawn. It amazes me how we tend to forget the productive period in American society immediately following the Civil War. It’s like there was slavery and then the 1950’s (and nothing else happened in betwwen except pure discrimination). To tell the story of those like Booker T. Washington and others that although facing great obstacles,real obstacles, ones not of their choosing, they prevailed.
It’s just boggles the mind where we are right now.
When I was in the Navy, a faction of the black people I worked with avidly devoured the works of Louis Farrakhan and Malcolm X. Like most people in my division, I was on good terms with them; we often had wide ranging discussions on philosophical topics. It’s one of the great things about the military; you get to sit down and really talk with people that are so very different than you. Even though you would probably shun each other in polite society, you still had each other’s backs.
To make my point, I would sit with them occasionally and listen to some of the audio tapes they would get from home. They often portrayed the White man as the Devil and were often very, very disparaging of Jews. Because of this, I lumped Malcolm X into the hate category. I never looked at him any closer.
I have a lot of respect for you, LaShawn, and you referenced him above as someone who has expressed conservative ideals.
Is Malcolm X worth looking into deeper? I assume that I am missed something when listening to him the first time.
Very insightful. I need to print it out and read it again before I comment. I’ll be back.
The divide really is over politics far more than actual racial issues. The specific words in the discussions may be somewhat different, but the liberals (regardless of race) are always going to propose government as a solution, and the conservatives (regardless of race) will always say that government is a problem.
Count me in the latter group. Government is a means of last resort to accomplish things that individuals cannot. The entire Constitution is a testament to the Founders’ wisdom in that regard.
You can actually tell a black conservative from a black liberal by listening to the tone of voice.
Black conservative-steady, calm, thoughtful use of words while expressing views.
Black liberal-sreaming, frenetic, ranting, hate filled use of words.(Julien Bond,Al Sharpton,Jesse “the baby maker” Jackson.)
Once again you nailed it Lashawn.
As a young man first looking at world history in the ’70s
it appeared that the USA had solved most of the major problems
other nations faced. Hunger, disease, extreme poverty. Then my “teachers” tought me that I was wrong. The US was chock-full of problems, and they were caused by people just like me. How concieded I was. As my fellow whites were building “institutional racism” I was unknowingly reaping the benifits of
prejudice!
Ask a liberal manipulator a question like, ” Who built America?’
From a purely racial perspective was it whites or was it a” “rainbow” of diversity?
Get an answer. Next quesion, once again in a racial context who is to blame for the problems in the US today! Any liberal with ANY consistancy will blame whites!
I’m not trying to claim any white supremacy, allthough from a liberal perspective one cannot advocate civil rights if one is white. You automatically become “supremacist” if you dare to think that whites ocassionally get the shaft . My point being, if a bit labored, is that IF the white race built America then all other races should be thankful to be here. AND, If the US was in fact built by the efforts of many races, then the liberal trick of blaming whites for “institutional racism” is shown for what it allways has been. Absurd.
Thanks for the info.
By your analysis,I must be a conservative as I have never been called one or the other. However, the social leanings of the people called conservatives and liberals seem to me to be the same. I hate when people find an “institution” to blame without actually doing any self analysis.
Very interesting.
Black Liberals: We have problems and it’s White people’s fault. Let’s demand they solve them.
Black Conservatives: We have problems and it’s nobody’s fault but our own, so let’s get busy and solve them.
The problem is, blaming the problem on White people — is most of the problem. Life is tough and if you’re always ready to blame someone else when things get difficult, you’re unable to strive for your full potential.
Like I tell my kids: The first step to success is to stop whining. Back Conservatives typically don’t whine — they succeed.
Thanks,
I am a conservative (I think). Don’t tell my mom.
La Shawn:
Thanks much for comments about Black conservatives.
Another difference you might include is that Black Conservatives, while they abhor racism, don’t wallow in it.
A case in point is last week’s 40th anniversary “Remember Selma” celebration.
There was somewhat of a circus atmosphere, with Congressman John Lewis proudly remembering getting assaulted. It was almost as if he was enjoying telling the story of his suffering.
Liberals like to tell the story, and all the gory details, endlessly.
Conservatives, in contrast, certainly remember the story – but don’t reenact it endlessly.
“….I can’t find anything to disagree with, and I’m really glad to hear her say what she did, because as a White guy, I can’t say it. But I agree. Cultural pathologies within contemporary Black culture are the source of problems that continue to entrap each new generation. …”
http://www.downingworld.com/title.html#anchor3_8_2005
Great post.
And just wanted to share this line made me laugh:
I understand what you mean but it is still an amusing oxymoron!
You’re right! I must change it or I will not be able to sleep tonight.
La Shawn, an excellent, thought provoking post, as usual! I am a conservative…the “W” word conservative. One day I hope that I am a conservative, in which group is contained, “B” conservatives, “H” conservatives, “A” conservatives, “W” conservatives & that the qualifiers of white, black, hispanic, asian & whatever else will have atrophied & withered away. In the meantime, cultivating the American Black Conservative mind-set for the benefit of the blacks in this country & ultimately the nation is crucial!!
Jack,
I would like to add to what you said.
“Black Conservatives: We have problems and it’s nobody’s fault but our own, so let’s get busy and solve them.”
I would not necessarily say that all problems are our own fault however I would say, regrdless of the problem (root source being my own fault or someone else), we don’t let it stop us. We don’t use any problem as an excuse to rob us of our self worth.
Monika wrote, “Don’t tell my mom.”
What’s interesting to me is how much vitriol conservatives are known to receive from liberals once the liberal “knows” someone is a conservative.
It would be as if they were known to be “evil”.
That would be the Metropolitan Strategy that liberal leaders have been exercising for decades of disinformation about conservatives. —That was an inside joke Monika…
Renee, I’m hoping that Jack was generalizing and not intending to say what he said.
To Renee:
I like your observation. Of the people I know. The barriers (whatever they are) are known. They are just not used as excuses, crutches or jusification for not doing what a person is called to do. YAY RENEE
TO Baklava:
It was just a joke. Many people that I claim to be liberal (what ever that means) think the same way I do. They had to or I wouldn’t be the way I am. I think where the lines are blurred are certain issues social and political.
I do, however, notice the mention of a Black conservative leads to the person called a “non-Black” or “selling out”. I hate that people resort to name calling when they don’t aggree.
PS a good poem to read:
Booker T and W.E.B. by Dudley Randall
http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/randall/onlinepoems.htm
it is the second poem on the page.
No matter what color I think I’ve found a pattern also…
The more negative a person tends to be the more liberal they usually are.
The more positive a person tends to be the more conservative they usually are.
Given that there is middle ground (grey area) there is some logic and reasoning in the mix where the liberal tends to believe the negative details about this country, leader or other conservatives that are presented to them….. and conservatives tend to see the details about this country that are presented to them.
For instance, in 1995 for 5 months straight the liberal leaders (including the media) wailed about the supposed cut in Medicare of $270 Billion.
For the same 5 months straight and longer, the conservative leaders and (talk radio) tried to set the record straight about how it was a 7% increase for 7 years (more than 49% compounded) in the Medicare budget.
The negative/liberal rank and file and squishy middle who tend to side with the other liberals bought into the malarky and conservatives didn’t. They saw and heard the positive and heard that this country’s government is trying to do right by the Medicare recipients.
Given the debate is always seeming to be so extreme people label conservatives and liberals as extremem polar opposites.
BUT WHERE the rubber meets the road people can see that it is pretty centrist to be conservative. The budget was actually being INCREASED and higher than the rate of medical inflation and number of new Medicare recipients that were supposed to come onto the system.
That was a pretty moderate rubber meeting the road. Not an extreme.
So…. Given the NEW MEDIUM of blogs and talk radio MORE and MORE people are able to be presented with all of these facts.
Given that I believe that more people tend to be positive than negative, I tend to believe that conservativism will generally be winning elections for awhile until liberals can find a new game plan that actually legitimately debates on the playing field of ideas.
The liberals reign of power from 1930-1994 where they had a majority of governorships, legislatures, Congress has reversed itself because it isn’t just ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN anymore.
Great observations about Black conservatism. In fact, I was in the middle of writing my honors thesis in African American Studies when I found out about and accepted conservatism. I then wanted to do my work on Black conservatism but my professor told me that all of my sources, books, authors, research, etc. were not academic or scholarly in nature, even though many of the authors or sources were from Ph.D.s. Black liberals are afraid of the truth about Black conservatism getting out there.
Black conservatives, for the most part, believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, understand personal responsibility, understand the importance of family and providing for family, understand the importance of hard work ethic, embrace freedoms and liberties that America gives us to pursue life, liberty and happiness, understand the significant and proper role of the local church, understand the importance of personal ownership rather that be home or business, understand the importance of parenting and raising children, and understand the strength that comes from faith, family, community, church. They see Black culture as something that should be based and structured on Christian Biblical principles and precepts. They see God (first), the individual, family and the church as the solution to all social, political and economic issues.
On the other hand Black liberals blame “White racism” for any and every problem that may exist in Black communities. They see current Black culture as a product of structural racism and refuse to look at the individual choices and decisions we make as individuals. They deny the freedoms and opportunities EVERYONE has here in America, regardless of what your circumstances might be growing up. Their ultimate goal is communism in the name of tolerance, diversity, equality, etc. Many know, others are just fooled (like I once was) that communism is simply just another cruel form and system of slavery. Yes, everyone may be equal, but they will be equally enslaved. They deny the power and authority of Jesus Christ, the Black church and the historical strength of the Black family. They do not believe that Black Americans can compete adequately in the free market system so there must be an “equalizer” a.k.a. Affirmative Action. Black liberals’ solutions only include secular government socialist programs that do nothing but further the mentality, attitude and culture of government dependence and hopelessness.
In Short, Black conservatives believe that Blacks are NOT inherently inferior and that through Jesus Christ, hard work, family, church and community Black Americans can compete and be successful at whatever they desire. Whereas Black Liberals believe that Blacks are inherently inferior and need government intervention and dependence for survival.
About Malcolm X, he had conservative ideas and principles (He was way more conservative than Dr. King) but he wasn’t a conservative in the sense of most Black conservatives because he was not Christian and he did not believe in the local Christian Church. He did call Blacks to personal responsibility, self-esteem and confidence, personal ownership in home and business, and strength through family and community. While those principles are great and well-intentioned they have no substance and are meaningless if they are not solidified on the FAITH of Jesus Christ.
AMEN!
In any type of discussion, if you see the word “victim”, use the word “slave”. In most instances you will find that the meaning of the sentence does not change.
People who do not see themselves as “victims” are already free, those who don’t are not.
Everytime I hear Reverands J Jackson or Al Sharpton or NAACP VP(?) Julian Bond to name a few I can’t help but think of the following quote…
“There is a class of colored people who make a
business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don’t want the patient to get well.” –Booker T.
Washington, 1911
Aaron, Excellent comments. I’m sorry your professor wouldn’t let you write on Black conservatism. What is sad is this would have been a good way for him/her to learn about Black conservatives and conservatives in general. Best wishes in your studies. Let us hear from you again. Evon
Obvious, to me, observation. The “elite” Black “liberals” and “conservatives” are both negative about the Black community.
The “Black liberals” are negative in thinking that only “exceptional” Blacks will rise above negative circumstances. They are also negative in always pointing to the exception of Blacks who aren’t achieving as being the norm.
The “Black conservatives” are negative in thinking, or at least portraying, that most Blacks are not doing things to advance themselves. They are also negative in always pointing to the exception of Blacks who aren’t achieving as being the norm.
How often do the media elite “Black liberals” or “Black liberals” point out the positives of what’s going on the Black community?
Booker Rising, http://www.bookerrising.blogspot.com, is the exception in putting a more positive spin on things happening in the Black community.
I have often been ridiculed by “Black liberals” and “Black conservatives” alike for highlighting the positives going on in the Black community.
I write this to say that I find the general gist of this piece to be suspect.
He lists a number of blacks who are conservatives or have expressed conservative ideals, such as Clarence Thomas, Glenn Loury, Ward Connerly, Malcolm X, Star Parker, John McWhorter, Ralph Ellison, Orlando Patterson and Debra Dickerson. There are many others.
It’s interesting that Glenn Loury and Debra Dickerson are included. The latter has been called a liberal or moderate. Glenn Loury, was classified as a liberal, then conservative, then a liberal again. When he went liberal to conservative, he was labeled a turn coat. When he went conservative back to liberal, again he was called a turn coat.
In fact, when he “turned liberal from conservative” he said one of the things that he found distasteful about some conservatives was that they were always negative about the Black community. (That’s my interpretation of his comments).
We (black conservatives) seize opportunities whereas they (civil rights advocates and black nationalists) fear opportunities.
Tavis Smiley, a “Black liberal” who has siezed all opportunities to be where he is at today. He “bogarted” his way onto The Tom Joyner Morning Show and has been a popular contribution to the show.
Tom Joyner has sized upon his opportunities to create the first Black syndicated morning talk show. It’s making a major amount of money. In fact, he’s helping the United Negro College Fund and has put forth an offer to the AME church to buy Morris Brown.
We (black conservatives) seize opportunities whereas they (civil rights advocates and black nationalists) fear opportunities. We prepare for success but they resent it.
Cathy Hughes, liberal. Took the opportunity to buy WOL in D.C. Slept in the station. Faced drug dealers to get them to recognize that she was just trying to run a radio station. Used the affirmative action media regs in place at the time to build the foundation of Radio One. Praised by Forbes Magazine.
Earl Graves, liberal. Started the Black Enterprise franchise. Brought a major Pepsi bottling facility in the U.S. Then he partnered with Magic Johnson to run the facility. They later sold it at a major profit. Graves has made a life work in trying to inform Blacks of the blessings of capitalism, business ownership, and wealth building.
Oprah Winfrey, liberal. Need I write more?
Seriously, if I can see the fallacy in what I quoted, why can’t others?
Are you sure these people are “civil rights” and “black nationalist” types?
To Darkstar,
I am sure that the writer didn’t infer that “only” conservatives seize upon opportunities. But it appears, that wealthy liberals spend much more time telling me why I can’t make it…I watched the “State Of The Black Union”, I bet the combined income of the participants in the “Contract” sessions, Long, West, Jackson, Sharpton, Fahrakhan, Dyson and Joyner are in the hundreds of millions dollars respectively. If not a billion dollars…
I would rather see these people hold the following summit, “Black and Making in America”.
I agree with you that both sides need to speak more on the successes happening everyday in the black community. However, if you check out conservative outreach programs like B.O.N.D, Project 21 or the Joseph Project, you will see the great thing happening in the black community.
Uhhh…..
Let me show you something for Project 21:
http://www.visioncircle.org/archive/003094.html
If you know of other “good things” drop by http://www.blackselfhelp.info and send email concerning Black groups doing good things.
Darkstar, I still think you are more liberal than you think, but you are starting to grow on me.
Sort of.
Are you sure these people are “civil rights†and “black nationalist†types?
Smiley, Joyner, Cathy Hughes, definitely.
Earl Graves came from the JFK administration and supports Dems.
Winfrey, not sure.
Darkstar, I still think you are more liberal than you think, but you are starting to grow on me.
I make no claim that I am liberal. I make no claim I am conservative. I make no claim that I am moderate.
I don’t know where I fit and I find that comforting because I’m “allowed” to “think for myself”.
“Conservatives” call me “liberal”.
“Liberals” call me “conservative”.
It’s easier to “deal with me” by ignoring the box and address my thoughts/ideas/questions.
Whatever, DS! You’re a liberal to these conservative eyes.
But you have your good points.
Whatever, DS! You’re a liberal to these conservative eyes.
Like I wrote…
La Shawn:
You would have fit in well with the high school that I graduated from. Back during the days of segregation, my high school was my city’s only all-black high school. Although the high school is now integrated (with me being one of its white alumni), the student body is still predominently black.
I am happy to report that my black classmates there seized opportunities for personal advancement instead of trying to portray themselves as being victims of the “white establishment”. In doing so, they made my high school one of my state’s best public schools, repeatedly winning for the school the state’s annual scholastic competition.
Today, the school’s black students continue to resist labeling themselves as victims. They continue to emulate the person whom the school is named after.
The high school’s location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
The high school’s name: Booker T. Washington
Someone wrote:
Earl Graves, liberal. Started the Black Enterprise franchise. Brought a major Pepsi bottling facility in the U.S. Then he partnered with Magic Johnson to run the facility. They later sold it at a major profit. Graves has made a life work in trying to inform Blacks of the blessings of capitalism, business ownership, and wealth building.
Oprah Winfrey, liberal. Need I write more?
——
Earl Graves was called a liberal by someone and then you see where I bolded inform Blacks of the blessings of capitalism, business ownership, …..
Capitalism is antithetical to the beliefs of a liberal. Capitalism (the people choosing who gets what resources) is not understood by liberals, denigrated, said to be the root cause of evil, etc. Liberals do not understand capitalism or what business ownership is all about. Because Graves informed people about the blessings of capitalism, I can ONLY conclude that the accusation by someone that Graves was a liberal is incorrect. False judgements will always get liberals’ thoughts confused.
I could go on about Oprah too. It’s an incorrect judgement (I believe) to pidgeon hole Oprah into the liberal category. Her shows used to have victim after victim in the 80’s and early 90’s. Somewhere along the line she got wise to it and isn’t very tolerant of people choosing to be victims anymore. She’s about empowerment now. While I wouldn’t classify her completely as a conservative I would say that raises my intellectual honesty quotient compared to someone.
“Capitalism is antithetical to the beliefs of a liberal. Capitalism (the people choosing who gets what resources) is not understood by liberals, denigrated, said to be the root cause of evil, etc. Liberals do not understand capitalism or what business ownership is all about.”
This is wrong: just more of the same sort of “latte libel” that conservative blogs specialize in. (To be fair, liberal blogs do the same thing, they just substitute “religious crazies” or “gun-toting rednecks” as their slander of choice).
Baklava, is there any empirical support for your assertion at all? DS said Graves was involved in the JFK admin and supports Democrats. That seems to indicate a liberal mindset.
I might agree with the assertion that, say, communists are less familiar with the tenets of capitalism. But American liberals? Be serious: there are far too many successful black liberals out there to make that claim. Not invoking the “free market” or the “private sector” as a magical cure-all for every problem doesn’t mean we don’t understand capitalism.
Because Graves informed people about the blessings of capitalism, I can ONLY conclude that the accusation by someone that Graves was a liberal is incorrect. False judgements will always get liberals’ thoughts confused.
And there you have it!!!!
Thank you. For those who have any clue about Earl Graves, what he backs, and what he does, there it is.
I wrote that people don’t have a clue as they apply the liberal and conservative labels.
Here’s a great demonstration!
Earl Graves? Conservative?
Guess what? I BELIEVE IN CAPITALISM. I used to have a consulting business. I will have one again.
Now, by your quick response, I don’t fit the liberal category. No one who knows me will say that I wallow in victimology. Guess who paid for college himself?
Lastly, Jesse Jackson, Sr. and Jesse Jackson, Jr. have a book that says the next civil rights issue is gaining wealth and going after what capitalism has to offer. By your definition, you just removed both from the liberal camp.
DS shakes his balding head
Oh, btw?????
“Black conservatives” call Earl Graves a liberal.
“Jesse Jackson, Sr. and Jesse Jackson, Jr. have a book that says the next civil rights issue is gaining wealth and going after what capitalism has to offer.”
I haven’t seen the book. By what means do the Jacksons propose to gain this wealth and go after capitalism’s offerings? I’m curious, because Jesse Jackson, Sr. has a track record of traveling the world complaining about all that is wrong, offering few real solutions, demanding that private businesses comply with his wishes and add financial support to his organization, apparently to allow him to do more traveling, complaining and demanding. Interesting method of participating in capitalism, but still a bit confusing to the average observer.
tvd wrote, “DS said Graves was involved in the JFK admin and supports Democrats. That seems to indicate a liberal mindset.”
While I appreciate what you are trying to say….. people can associate with the Democrats and be conservative and associate with the Republicans and be liberal. Furthermore…. This was much more prevalent in the past (during the JFK admin). The ideals of JFK even were conservative. The ideals of tax cutting to stimulate the economy and INCREASING revenue streams into the government were put forward by JFK, Reagan and now Bush. Most others who don’t understand capitalism and Economics 101 think you have to raise taxes to invest in the economy and/OR raise revenue streams into the government.
My empirical evidence? Blah! If I wasn’t just about to get the kids ready for school (make their lunches/breakfast and do their hair), I’d actually go to the CATO institute or Heritage Foundation (or even a reverse ideology thinktank) and show you the data that the people who vote liberal today (mostly Democrats but some Republicans) do NOT BELIEVE IN CAPITALISM and DO NOT UNDERSTAND CAPITALISM and do not even understand ECONOMICS 101 as it applies to capitalism. And they sure don’t preach the blessings of business ownership and capitalism.
What would the empirical evidence be? Their voting records with respect to issues of the economy and taxes. And even what they say. You can go to C-SPAN.org and find speech after speech by a liberal and they do not understand capitalism or economics 101.
Just to be clear…. I didn’t put Oprah or Graves in the conservative column. It was someone else who put them in the liberal column.
I just believe I’m being a little more honest (rather than the pidgeon holing and labeling type) by allowing for the fact that they may not have been completely liberal. Word mean something.
If you have seen the Tavis Smiley show on CSPAN I recommend you see this one as a counterpoint.
It a real shame these brothers were not invited to Tavis’s show. It would have been a real discussion.
Heritage Foundation & BOND Forum on Black Conservativism : CSPAN – Real Player
I link to from here.
http://tswe.blogspot.com/2005/03/heritage-foundation-bond-forum-on.html
The difference between conservatives and the freedom loving liberals is:
1. Liberals are tollerant of other lifestyles and religions. Since christian reconstructionist control repubniks and conservatives there is only one religion you can belong to and one lifestyle
2. Liberals care for people. christian reconstructionist conservatives care for business to the exclusion of all else.
3. Liberals believe in helping people with foodstamps for those who while working at the low minimun wage jobs that mr. bush has provided do not make enought money for food and housing at the same time and who often have to work 2 or 3 jobs just to keep even. Conservatives believe in helping the CEO because they believe that help will Trickle down to the empolyees.
4. Liberals believe in spending more money on Schools, children, Veterans, Farmers and the needy while the christian reconstructionist believe the church, which proved they cannot handle this back in 1929, should do this instead. This also shows more intollerance of the conservatives when it is mentioned that other religions can also help. The reply from conservatives is: No only christian/ jewish faith can help the other religions are heathen.
5. Liberals believe in free speech. From looking at various republican blogs who ban people for just speaking their mind or for opposing mr. bush, then that leads to the conclusion that conservatives do not believe in free speech, and only the type of speech allowed is that which supports mr. bush.
The Liberals care for people, the conservatives do not, and that is the difference.
Well, “Magnum,” you just spoke your mind on a conservative blog, and your comment is still here. I suspect you are exaggerating for effect. I also assume you are an adult and know the difference between disagreement and personal insults or attacks. I consider such comments “delete-able.” My blog, my rules.
So contrary your claim that conservatve bloggers banish people for merely speaking their minds, you’re still here. Despite speaking your mind on a conservative blog.
Now you can die a happy man/woman.
I am a VERY conservative Christian when it comes to His word and the need to follow it and have a personal relationship with Christ for salvation. Yet I:
5. am very much in favor of open dialog because when done among knowledgeable, thinking people, Christian idealogy wins every time. Free speech is great!
4. do not believe that either the government OR the Church should just spend more money in an attempt to solve social ills. It hasn’t worked up to now so it doesn’t make sense to think that for some reason it suddenly will.
3. food Stamps are great when used WHILE helping the person/family to get to the point where they don’t need them any more. Otherwise it creates a mindset of dependance. Which it has. I also believe that helping socially minded corporations will trickle down.
2. care about people more than most liberals I know. They SEEM to think that with a full belly and a roof overhead, all life’s problems are solved. I know that the biggest issue of life is where you will spend eternity, BUT that food and shelter DO also matter.
1. am very tolerant of other points of view and walks of life. People are looking for love, acceptance, a way to make a living, a way to express their faith, and all the other things that every person looks for. I MUST tolerate these things for an opportunity to show them the best thing. Tolerance means putting up with that which you disagree with. Liberals APPEAR to be the most intolerant group in existence because as a Christian they seek to keep me from expressing my faith anywhere, from speaking what I believe, and if I do I am shouted at and called names. That is quite intolerant.
Yet, if we are not free to share ideas with each other, how will any ever come to agreement about anything?
Clegg’s inclusion of Malcolm X in his list of black conservatives or expressed conservative ideals is the only “suspect” in this piece.
From droping by La Shawn’s corner on a regular basis, I can vouch from my viewpoint of DarkStar’s comments that this person is, in my book, a liberal. Not even a moderate conservative. Especially when put up to the light of La Shawn and many of the friends here. But at least DarkStar is not a troll like Magnum Serpentine.
I don’t think that the use of the terms “liberal” and “conservative” is useful any more. If you look in the dictionary, liberal means “generous” and conservative means “one who wants to preserve the status quo.” In the years before the Civil Rights movement was this word “conservative” descriptive of blacks? Were Booker T. Washington and George Washington Carver wanting to preserve the status quo of Jim Crow? Was obsequiousness synonomous with conservativism? Were those like the NAACP and others “liberals” because they fought for the full extension of the rights of the Constitution to people of color? How does this lack of definition of terms help anyone? As noted before, Dubois and Washington both respected “law and order”. Is that a liberal or conservative point of view? If we are human at all, all of us are a blend of conservative and liberal in the grandest and most accurate definitions of those terms. All of us want to help the weak, those who are unable to adequately provide for themselves. We differ on who, when, how much and for how long. Both Democrats and Republicans have their “welfare clients”. One group prefers giving to benefit the poor, the other prefers to give to corporations. Both have established these groups as bases and often have less than untarnished reasons for doing so. But accusing “liberal Democrats” of being against law and order and “conservative Republicans” of being devoid of compassion generalizes the issue and slanders a lot of good people on both sides. Isn’t there a way to discuss these issues without taking up sides or labels? There are a lot of good people in the middle who would like to think these issues without all the rhetoric from both sides. There is both room for conserving the status quo AND moving forward progressively. It takes collective wisdom to discern when, where and how.
Noah, what’s my point of view that defines me as a liberal?
If you want, I’ll open up a thread on Vision Circle.
Again, I strongly suspect the only reason I’m labeled a liberal is because I don’t drink the Republican kool-aid.
Oh, and I have this knack of showing that everybody’s diapers are loaded.
The thread is open for those who want to have at me.
http://www.visioncircle.org/archive/003556.html
Ahh! It is good to see another black conservative out there! I was feeling lonely out in the blogosphere…or rather reality in iteself.
It seems that many African Americans prefer the “victim” mindset where they are screaming about past wrongs when instead they should be focused on accomplishing “future rights” as in making a better society/community/culture for the next generation. It seems everytime I talk to my “kin folk” (whether blood related or not) their seems to be a massive condemning of anything related to Republicans or Bush. Unfortunately many just pure “hate” the opposition and until that is addressed, no amount of evidence will convince them otherwise. Selah.
W. E. B. Du Bois is one of my heroes. However, his particular brand of conservatism was more a product of the times he lived and observed things in. I believe he would still be a socialist were he alive today. I also believe he would take a buggy whip to today’s version of the Talented Tenth. He was a man of vision and hope and I doubt he would approve of hypocrites like Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas. He CERTAINLY saw the need for affirmative action before it even had a name. David Levering Lewis wrote an excellent two part biography on Du Bois (the first installment won the Pulitzer Prize), I recommend it heartily.
Renee and Baklava,
Perhaps I did overstate it a bit. I was trying to emphasize that the solution to one’s problems begins with yourself. In fact, really successful people have no problems — only opportunities.
“……Both Democrats and Republicans have their “welfare clients.” One group prefers giving to benefit the poor, the other prefers to give to corporations. Both have established these groups as bases and often have less than untarnished reasons for doing so…………”
Awesome comment Stan.
I was referring to Stan’s whole comment, not just this excerpt from it.
Comments on this entry are closed.