Illegal immigration is out of control. As a result, our nation’s security is at risk. A group of Americans has decided to do what George Bush refuses to do: protect Americans from the scourge of illegal immigration.
This is the first part of an interview with John Smallberries, a former Marine and a volunteer pilot for the Minuteman Project. The mythmaking and urban legends about the group have already begun, so I wanted to set the record straight and let you hear a firsthand account of what the project is and more importantly, why it is. Later this week I’ll interview the project’s founder, Jim Gilchrist.
For background on the Minuteman Project, see Mexico Wants Minuteman Project Gone, Modern Day Minutemen, Liberals and the Will of the People of Arizona and Proposition 200 is Now Arizona State Law.
***
Me: What is the Minuteman Project?
John Smallberries: For me - the project is simply a “stunt” — like a march or a sit-in. The situation at the border is 100% out of control — but who knows that? Very few people, simply because the border is far away, there is a huge “somebody else’s problem” issue.
What we hope to show is the lack of security, plus the HUGE numbers of people crossing the border every day IS a problem. Forget the illegal immigration issue, forget the tons and tons of dope, how about just one backpack nuke? Or a canister of nerve gas? No matter where you live — those things could ruin your whole day! This is something that matters to all of us who enjoy breathing, and prefer not to glow in the dark. Who cares where you live? We want to help everyone understand this a problem they need to be concerned about.
Me: Tell us a little about yourself and why you volunteered.
JS: I’m a former US Marine — many people in the project are — but I’m not very special. I’m 38, I’ve been to Iraq twice — once as a Marine, the second time as a “contractor” doing training and (irony alert) border control.
A few weekends a month, I work on a ranch in San Diego that is on the US/Mexico border and help with security. There is a small group of us, and between the 10 of us, we’ve turned several thousand (yes — thousand) folks over to the Border Patrol in 5 years. So I’m a little more in tune with the issue than most.
I volunteered for this operation for number of reasons. First — Jim Gilchrist. He is an upstanding man, and this is the first “non kooky” action I’ve seen to address the border issue. While others have tried similar efforts — Jim is calm (mostly) , and someone I can respect. Other folks have just been too unprofessional, or reeked of “yahoo” thrill seeker, or just plain ugly racist. He appealed to me as someone worth working for, and I would not be embarrassed to be associated with.
As to the larger issue: I believe it is practically inevitable there is going to be another 9/11 if we don’t do something at the border. Between loose nukes, and homemade WMD’s — there are lots of ways to hurt us, and no lack of crazies who would enjoy exactly that. I think we owe the people that died last 9/11 two things: 1) avenge their deaths, and 2) prevent this from EVER happening again.
Now — while I cannot personally handle #2 — I can do a little. Shutting the border down, even if it’s just a little piece, makes it that much harder to get by. With the project calling attention to this subject — maybe we can get some real security down there.
If there is another 9/11 — I just want to be able to look the survivors in the eye and say, “I did everything I could to prevent this day.” My hope is there are other people like me, and once they see the problem — they’ll stop sitting on their duff, and get some attention down at the border. Or not. Whatever happens, the only non-solution is to do nothing and expect things to change. The time for pleading with Washington to “please protect us” has passed. It’s too important to blow off and hope they eventually get clued in.
Me: A few people on my blog wondered if the volunteers were going to shoot Mexicans coming across the border. Is that true?
JS: Well — that would be murder, and that’s a crime, even in Arizona. Yipes — do you really think people believe that? At any rate — we have a strict “no contact” policy. Our volunteers are only there to observe and report. If you think of a neighborhood watch program, spread out along 20 miles of border — that is how we are operating. So if the block watch folks would not do it — neither will we.
To be 100% straight up with you and your readers, some of our folks are going to be armed. This is something that is really hard to understand if you have not worked near the border. Having a weapon is not only legal, it’s stupid not to have one. Most of the ranchers don’t go out without a pistol on their belt.
Again — using only words — it’s hard to communicate how totally out of control the situation has gotten. Think back to the LA riots. If you were out in the street when all hell was breaking loose — would you have felt safe? The border area is less dynamic, but still very dangerous. Automatic gunfire is a common sound. Seeing dope mules with Ak47’s work drug loads over the border is a common sight. [W]hile I realize that the idea of wearing a weapon just to walk around sounds kooky, and even dangerous, your readers have to understand how totally out of control this place is. I can honestly say — it is as dangerous as the Iraq/Iran border — minus the landmines.
Bottom line on the weapons issue — if someone tries to murder one of our volunteers while they sit on a hill and call for help, that person has a right to use deadly force to protect themselves. Anything other then that is a crime, and they will get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Period.
Me: I assume you live in or near Arizona. It’s hard for some of us to understand the extent of the border crossing problem. Tell us what effect it’s had on that state.
I live in San Clemente…as I said before…I have spent plenty of time down in San Diego, which is similar. However — the problem in Arizona is insane! It’s been years since we had a daylight drive through in San Diego (this is where a stolen truck is used to ram the border fence, then charge though to the nearest road, where dope and people are transferred to another vehicle) in Arizona — it happens every day…[L]et me assure you and your readers of this: Come out to Arizona — you and anyone that wants to see this with their own eyes. If you are not totally flipped out by the unbelievable chaos that is taking place — dinner is on me.
Most folks I’ve taken down to San Diego (also open for you or your readers to see) can’t get their head around the total lack of control and lawlessness — and it’s tame compared to AZ! Total insanity. Right here in the USA. No kidding.
***
John Smallberries can be reached at berryhunter@gmail.com. In Part II, John talks about the extent of the national security breach in Arizona. Stay tuned.
Update: Fausta has a post about the Mexican gang targeting the Minuteman volunteers.
The Mara Salvatrucha gang’s gearing up to go after the Minutemen. Gringo Unleashed! is following the story, and has several posts, and reports that the MS gang has joined forces with the leaders of radical terrorist group Farabundo Marti, and are allegedly cooperating with Islamic terrorist groups including Al Qaida.
Comment by Fausta — 03.15.05 @ 7:36 am
INTERVIEW WITH A MINUTEMAN
La Shawn Barber has a Q&A with John Smallberries, a former Marine and a volunteer pilot for the Minuteman Project. A snippet: Come out to Arizona — you and anyone that wants to see this with their own eyes. If…
Trackback by Michelle Malkin — 03.15.05 @ 8:53 am
Tuesday Breakfast:
Try one of these specials with your breakfast. Ace of Spades HQ doesn’t like the madness. ScrappleFace reports more bad news for the King of Pop. And Rightly So! blogs for Terri. Info Theory has a roundup on Terri. Hyscience
Trackback by basil's blog — 03.15.05 @ 9:04 am
Interview with John Smallberries, Minuteman Projec
LaShawn Barber has an interview with the civilians who are trying to lawfully protect our borders. Yohoo! Open borders peeps! Can we hear the pop please?
Trackback by HCS and Gen's Pad — 03.15.05 @ 9:13 am
I am in favor of the Minuteman Project. I just hope that the project can screen out applicants who are anti-Hispanic racists. If volunteers have hatred of Hispanics as their motivation, then sooner or later that hatred will prompt an action detrimental to the project.
Comment by Dodo David — 03.15.05 @ 9:44 am
Dems will undoubtly cry foul if a Minuteman shoots an illegal, but will say nothing if a Minuteman gets killed.
They have said nothing following multiple murders of Border Patrol agents and others.
Comment by Frank Zavisca — 03.15.05 @ 9:54 am
I like ‘John Smallberries’ humor, he’s obviously seen ‘Buckaroo Banzai’.
Comment by chris muir — 03.15.05 @ 10:42 am
Is this guy’s name really “John Smallberries”, a name which just happens to be a punch-line from the movie “Buckaroo Banzai”? Is it an alias? If so, why does he need one?
If it is an alias, at least he’s got good taste in movies!
Comment by Ann — 03.15.05 @ 11:28 am
Thank you, La Shawn!
Comment by Fausta — 03.15.05 @ 11:43 am
The Minute Man Project~Looking out when no one else is
La Shawn Barber shares part one of an interview she had with John Smallberries, a former Marine and a volunteer pilot for the Minuteman Project.
Check it out. It is well worth it.
Trackback by The Other Point Of View — 03.15.05 @ 11:46 am
La Shawn Barber has an interview with a volunteer for the Minuteman Project. Want to learn more? Look here. […]
Pingback by The Classical Child — 03.15.05 @ 12:39 pm
This guy’s name could be Casper Milquetoast for all I care.
I heartily approve of his goals.
David, I doubt there will be any problem with anti-Hispanic bigotry. This is just about illegal aliens breaking our laws, and it doesn’t matter where they’re coming from. If a few million Canadians decided to flaunt our laws and crash the border illegally, my reaction would be the same. Well, except for the fact that the Canadians would bring better beer with them.
Comment by RedBeard — 03.15.05 @ 1:17 pm
Some of us down here in Arizona will be watching the backs of the Minutemen, although we haven’t become ones ourselves. A few of the Mexican groups are swearing to cut them down and charge the border, but as soon as they decide to kill one of these brave men, that’s when we march to the the border ourselves and start sniping them for each head they take.
So it goes.
Comment by American Kitty — 03.15.05 @ 1:29 pm
As a San Diegan and former Arizonan, I think a lot of work needs to be done before we jump on the Minuteman bandwagon. I would like to get independent confirmation on Mr. Smallberrie’s claim that they have turned over thousands of illegals to the Border Patrol. The reason that illegal immigration is not the problem in San Diego that it used to be is that the Border Patrol put up a long, tall fence that has funneled illegals more to our East County, which is more mountainous, and Arizona. Again, this is a FEDERAL problem, which affects the states and nation, not a state problem which affects the nation. Conservatives need to absolutely call Bush out on this and totally break ranks with him. This is THE issue of the moment because it affects national security. They need to expend the energy they used against Clinton’s forays with Monica. One wonders where McCain is. Somehow CA got the Border Patrol to put up fences, why not AZ?
The best work being done on the issue at the present is by Lou Dobbs on CNN. He gets after it almost every day as well as the trade deficit and national debt. I also think that Mr. Smallberrie’s analysis of the problem and the potential problem is absolutely 200% right on. 9-11 changed everything. Where was our National Security Director, Ms Rice, for the last 3 years?
Comment by stan — 03.15.05 @ 1:42 pm
Kitty,
Sounds patriotic and exciting but you’re talking about a border war. Your problem is with your AZ senators and congressmen and Pres. Bush. You AZ folks need to get to work politically. Instead of passing laws to keep illegals from doing certain things, you need to get serious and active about this issue as a national security issue, which it is. If McCain and Kyle and your reps aren’t getting it done, recall them. Call Bush out publicly and with great anger if you think this issue is that important, which it is. Absolutely break ranks with him. Whatever we might think about him on other issues, he is guilty of a monstrous dereliction of duty on this one.
Comment by stan — 03.15.05 @ 1:52 pm
Stan, who cares if it’s exciting or not? You obviously have no idea how difficult it is to “work politically” around here. Believe me, I would love to recall McCain, and I definitely would have voted for someone other than Bush had someone better arose to the challenge, but what options were there besides? I believe that protecting the borders is an important thing, and although I can’t give up my full time job to do just that, I’m certainly not going to let people storm their way in here should they decide to do so because the Minutemen decided to protect the country.
It’s a scary, scary situation, and frankly, I’m sick and tired of sitting around and waiting for other people to handle it. I’m not the one making my living off of raising cattle, either.
Heh, at best, maybe someone in DC will realize how serious we are about this and finally decide to do something about it.
Comment by American Kitty — 03.15.05 @ 2:46 pm
John here.
I could not resist the urge to read the blog, so I wanted to jump in and make a few comments of my own.
#1 - Yes - Buckaroo Banzai is my all time favorite movie, and while my name really is John - it’s not Smallberries. The reason for this ‘nome de guerre’ is simple: There are no lack of bad guys out here, and while I’m very able to protect myself, my family is not. I dislike subterfuge in general, but this seems like a reasonable security precaution. I’m sorry if this sours folks on my message, but I won’t place them in danger for no good reason.
#2 - One of the gentlemen here had (legitimate) doubts about the number of groups we have busted over the years right here in San Diego. While I can’t prove this fact (in this forum) I will be happy to chat with you sir, and you are welcome to come out to the ranch, (in El Campo) where we work. We take a picture of almost every group we turn over to the BP, there are 2 shoeboxes full of them for you to look though. You can speak to the rancher we work for, and ask some of the PA’s we work with if this is the real deal or not. Actually - that offer is open to anyone who has doubts, drop me a line and I’ll be happy to lay things out for you to see. No need to take me at my word. Seeing is beliving.
#3 Racial hate - None will be tolerated. People who display these kinds of attitudes will be asked to leave. Period. This event is for grown-ups only.
#4 People watching our backs - Many thanks to anyone out there who has my ’six’ even if I never meet you. I am very aware of the danger to you and your family, and understand how you can not publicly support our efforts. I encountered the exact same situation in Iraq, and the fact that the same climate of fear exists in our homeland’s border towns should cause alarm for anyone still on the sidelines of this issue. I’m grateful of any (legal) support, and thankful people are out there keeping an eye out for our safety.
Respectfully,
John
Comment by John Smallberries — 03.15.05 @ 2:59 pm
CM, Smallberries, CM.
If this monkeyboy didn’t live so far from the border, I’d be out there with you.
Not that we don’t have illegals and the people who support them/import them up in NJ, but we don’t have a focal point like your group has.
Still, keep up the good work.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 03.15.05 @ 3:05 pm
Land mines! Great Idea!
Comment by dontmineifido — 03.15.05 @ 3:12 pm
This project seems innocent enough at this point, but I still have concerns. I live in California, and I confess that illegal immigration is a major problem here. I wish the gov’t would take action against it. At the same time, people basically use these folks as quasi-slaves, and I don’t think they really consider it a “problem” until these folks want education and health care.
The best way to combat Al Queda is to cut off the border and stop our insane allegiance to Israel. I’m not dying for them.
Comment by Justin — 03.15.05 @ 4:11 pm
Immigration and the Minuteman Project
LaShawn Barber has posted an interview she conducted w/one of the members of the Minuteman Project, (volunteers patroling the border w/Mexico this summer to bring attention to the illegal immigration problem). (h/t Michele Malkin)…
Trackback by bennellibrothers.com — 03.15.05 @ 4:34 pm
I live in southeastern Arizona and we need all the help we can get. Yes, we need to replace some politicians but we can’t stand by and wait for that process.
I’ve been posting about this issue on my site and so have several others. Of course, our newspaper and TV friends downplay or ignore the outrages that are occuring because of the failure of our governmant to protect our citizens.
The rights of the invaders have become more important than the rights of Americans. It is a sad day indeed.
Comment by BobG — 03.15.05 @ 4:45 pm
Because if we just let them push the jews into the sea, the islamofascists would just LOVE the good ol’ US of A. And if we only isolate ourselves… yeah, that’s the ticket.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 03.15.05 @ 4:47 pm
Because if we just let them push the jews into the sea, the islamofascists would just LOVE the good ol’ US of A. And if we only isolate ourselves” yeah, that’s the ticket.
SCSIwuzzy does it again! You must be one smart, pretty woman.
——
Personally, although I believe the borders should be closed, I believe it is even more important - in fact, necessary and sufficient - that America end states who sponsor terrorism.
It won’t matter if we have a million soldiers patrolling the border, so long as terror-sponsoring states can still manufacture terrorists. One of them will eventually breach our borders, someday.
I don’t have a problem with illegal immigration: how many native-born Americans can say their ancestors arrived here through legal means? And if they did, how many can say those legal means were moral?
If I were from the Third World, I would also struggle to gain entry into the United States, by hook or by crook. Why should I sacrifice myself to anyone else by living in poverty, backwardness, and pain?
What makes an alien different from a native? Both are human beings with inalienable rights. If the Puritans and the Founding Fathers had taken the present-day attitude of some conservatives towards illegal aliens, there would be no America today.
Comment by Highlander — 03.15.05 @ 5:18 pm
I want to qualify my position on illegal immigration by saying that I do not approve of what the worst illegals are doing to honest Americans at the border, which is why I believe the border should be sealed.
However, it is the poor foreign policy (which includes immigration policy) of the US that makes it impossible to separate the would-be-law-abiding illegal aliens from the rotten ones.
Comment by Highlander — 03.15.05 @ 5:23 pm
I don’t have a problem with illegal immigration: how many native-born Americans can say their ancestors arrived here through legal means? And if they did, how many can say those legal means were moral?
Right, and the rule of law be damned. The damage done to Americans or foreigners here legally take a backseat to the noble illegal alien, who is quickly gainly more rights than mere Americans, suing Americans in American courts of law. And winning! Let’s just toss the whole border issue aside. Give us your tired, your poor, your not-interested-in-American-culture invading alien who sneaks across the border, and by all means, please give us your Middle Easterner who sneaks across with him, no doubt for nefarious purposes.
We’re all just suckers anyway. Suicide by suckerism.
Comment by La Shawn — 03.15.05 @ 5:34 pm
SCSIwuzzy does it again! You must be one smart, pretty woman.
Uhhhh, I’m a dude, dude.
Save the pretty lady comments for the hostess.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 03.15.05 @ 5:38 pm
Bravo, LaShawn, you are absolutely right. By becoming a citizen through legal means you should expect the full rights and protection of the government to whom you give allegiance. The exact opposite is happening.
Comment by BobG — 03.15.05 @ 5:42 pm
Interview with a Minuteman
Illegal immigration is out of control. As a result, our nation’s security is at risk. A group of Americans has…
Trackback by VodkaPundit — 03.15.05 @ 5:44 pm
La Shawn,
I qualified my position in my follow-up post. I am not saying that the rule of law be damned, but that you should consider where the better aliens are thinking.
There is no “rule-of-law” in their native countries; all that awaits them is a half-lived life and then usually-sudden death. If there’s a place on earth that allows for them to live life to the full, why shouldn’t they take it up?
As for the “not-interested-in-American-culture” charge, we have seen this before in American history where first-generation *Europeans* were called the “unwashed” and “unassimilated.” So, it is not a new thing.
All immigrant settlements start out that way, but their descendants always assimilate. In fact, some people would argue that it is only the descendants of those who were brought here forcefully 400 years ago that are resisting American culture: hard work, material achievement, family values, etc.
Comment by Highlander — 03.15.05 @ 5:45 pm
Like most of the people already I think the border is bad news. Godspeed Minutemen.
Comment by Rod Stanton — 03.15.05 @ 5:46 pm
Uhhhh, I’m a dude, dude. Save the pretty lady comments for the hostess.
Sorry, man. Bad call.
You’re right about the hostess. But, as we all know, flattery won’t get me anywhere.
Comment by Highlander — 03.15.05 @ 5:50 pm
Could we cut it out with the whole “our forefathers did the exact same thing” bit? I mean, seriously, it’s become a moot point.
Yes, the world has a savage history. Yes, we’re no angels ourselves. That DOESN’T mean we have to sit back on our heels and allow a suitcase nuke to end up on 4th street in downtown Tucson on Friday night just so we can avoid hurting anyone’s feelings.
If you honestly want to go that route, why don’t we just pretend that the roles are reversed, Arizona being the Native Americans of the old world and the Mexicans playing the part of the Europeans. The natives have placed their men along the borders of their village, their shiniest, finest spears in hand.
Hmmm…now that makes for an interesting history lesson…Do you feel so sorry for them now? Never mind that plenty of white men did die like that in real life. That’s something you rarely learn in public school.
Comment by American Kitty — 03.15.05 @ 6:01 pm
Highlander - I frankly don’t care if it’s as old as Methuselah.
We’re going to have to do the old “agree to disagree” routine. Bush’s amnesty plan stinks. Rewarding blatant lawbreakers who are weakening the already weak government schools, receiving welfare off the backs of legal citizens. I wish I could take back my vote.
Comment by La Shawn — 03.15.05 @ 6:02 pm
LB, good entry.
Comment by DarkStar — 03.15.05 @ 6:48 pm
Taking back your vote wouldn’t help. Unfortunately Kerry would be as bad if not worse. Let’s organize and move forward.
Comment by BobG — 03.15.05 @ 6:59 pm
La Shawn, If you could take back your vote, who would you vote for? I’m really curious, because everyone keeps saying that we should go against Bush and everything, but I don’t remember seeing anyone better than Bush running for the election.
I mean, anyone who actually had a shot at winning.
Comment by American Kitty — 03.15.05 @ 7:01 pm
“There’s no rule of law in their native countries……”
Oh, so it’s ok to break our rule of law, live here unlawfully and share the American good-life that has been established “because” we have a rule of law. Then what’s in store for our future, our country becoming like theirs?
I voted for ya, George. Please don’t make me wish I hadn’t. Send the troops, relieve the Minutemen.
Comment by Dave in AZ — 03.15.05 @ 7:20 pm
SCSIWuzzy,
You come with the same ol’ tired “throw them into the sea” argument. Come up with something original; don’t repeat something you heard on Fox or CNN.
Comment by Justin — 03.15.05 @ 7:23 pm
Mr. Highlander, when would be a good time to stop illegal immigration? When 1 billion gets here, 2 billion…..I think you get my drift. We now have enough people here in the US, and we don’t need a hugh influx of illegals. Legal immigration and natural birth will increase our population dramatically anyway. We’ve about reached our limit.
Comment by jesusland joe — 03.15.05 @ 7:30 pm
In a pig’s nose there is no rule of law in Mexico. They manage to defend their border quite well. Our patrol lets most of their catch go because idiot judges have required full court press on tossing anyone out, and we don’t have room to hold very many of them. Congress needs to write laws to describe how illegals are to be treated instead of letting judges decide.
Comment by Walter E. Wallis — 03.15.05 @ 7:32 pm
I too am curious, take back your vote and then what?
Comment by BobG — 03.15.05 @ 7:41 pm
Justin,
I’ll stop saying it when the islamist do. Hezzbolah, Islamic Jihad, et al are very clear about what they want to do to Israel. And from your statement above, you’re willing to let them. If you think that our support of Isreal is why Al Queda and the like hate us, and want to kill us too… there’s not much left for us to say.
Still, I’ll give you some credit for balls. Calling a blogger a hypocrite on your blog, then going on a trolling expedition on hers.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 03.15.05 @ 7:44 pm
“The best way to combat Al Queda is to cut off the border and stop our insane allegiance to Israel. I’m not dying for them.”
Comment by Justin - 03.15.05 @ 4:11 pm
You obviously wouldn’t fight for your own country either but that’s another thread.
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it amazing that our government can track a cow born in Canada almost three years ago, right to the stall where she sleeps in the state of Washington. But they are unable to locate 11 million illegal aliens wandering around our country, not undocumented aliens but illegal.
As LaShawn pointed out, they come here and participate in the American legal system winning millions of dollars against legitimate companies and Citizens.
They have corrupted the school systems to the point where now they are teaching, in American Schools, Spanish, as the first language, this is nuts and the legal students have to learn another language in their own country just to get an education, yet nobody wants to hear about vouchers afterall we have the best schools already this is according to the NEA.
The ‘Minutemen’ are doing the job the US Government will not do. For some reason they don’t want to alienate Vincente Fox, as if this guy is some sort of reliable ally, and El Presidente has threatened to sue the United States if the illegals are injured in any way because of the ‘Minutemen’. He is threatening us with our laws, protecting our citizens, in our own country, if his people break our laws trying to sneak into our country, this just boggles the mind, This has got to be a new definition of chutz-pah.
I applaud John Smallberry and the ‘Minutemen’ and the effort.
Semper Fi John.
Mark
“Keep 5 Yards”
Comment by Mark — 03.15.05 @ 8:09 pm
I’m not trying to speak for La Shawn, but I assume her comment about taking back her vote was just frustration over Mr. Bush’s abysmal failure to address this problem, rather than any sort of desire that the 2004 election would have gone the other way. I feel that frustration myself. John Kerry would never have gotten my vote under any circumstances, but this issue certainly does rile the Bush faithful.
I’m also not very happy with Mr. Bush’s support of Kennedy’s education bill, the grotesquely bloated farm bill, or the campaign (non)reform bill. All wrong-headed, and bad for the country.
So much for the tiresome accusation from the left that we Bush voters “march in lockstep” like “mind numbed robots.”
Comment by RedBeard — 03.15.05 @ 8:30 pm
LaShawn,
Thanks so much for keeping abreast of this. It’s a topic of late that’s become near and dear to my heart. I look forward to your next installment!
Comment by lornkanaga — 03.15.05 @ 8:42 pm
The Pot Boils: Immigration and Border Security Roundup #2
Winds of Change roundup on immigration and border control stories - over 20 in the last 2 days! Congressional hearings, the Feds sweep up violent gang members and bust a scheme to bring shoulder-launched missiles into the US; debates, policies, comput…
Trackback by Winds of Change.NET — 03.15.05 @ 9:00 pm
“I wish I could take back my vote.” HUH????
LaShawn, I’ve been reading your blog regularly for several weeks, fascinated that a young, hip, intelligent, attractive black woman could articulate opinions that so resonated with me. (As a point of reference, I am an old, often-clueless white woman from the Deep South.)
You’ve been, if you will pardon the cliche, ‘a breath of fresh air’. You discuss the unmentionable. You lambast those who presume to pigeon-hole you. You refuse to kowtow on questions having to do with race or gender. For all this, I salute you, LaShawn.
But, “I wish I could take my vote back”? Surely you didn’t mean it. If you (and several million others) did that, maybe Thereza would ‘elevate’ the illegal immigrant discussion, only allowing bluebloods in? lol
I’m thinking an apology to your ‘audience’ is in order, LaShawn. You screwed up. No big deal. But the way you handle it is, imho.
Comment by highcotton — 03.15.05 @ 9:03 pm
*ROTFL*
Comment by DarkStar — 03.15.05 @ 9:10 pm
You discuss the unmentionable. You lambast those who presume to pigeon-hole you. You refuse to kowtow on questions having to do with race or gender. For all this, I salute you, LaShawn.
So I guess you won’t be surprised if I don’t apologize.
Thanks for reading.
Comment by La Shawn — 03.15.05 @ 9:10 pm
Not surprised…but a little disappointed, LaShawn.
President Bush is wrong on this issue. Way wrong! But your post suggested that he was so far off-base that we should not have voted for him because of it. That’s an idiot’s (one-issue) position, if you will pardon my saying so.
We were supposed to support John (or Dennis, or Ralph) because Dubya is weak on one issue? Gimme a break!
Thank you for welcoming me to your blog. You’ve made it clear that *stardom* is what you’re after, so I guess this is the first move. I will continue to read what you have to say. However, in future, I will do so with the attitude I bring to MSM. You pique my interest, but you have lost my respect.
highcotton
Whatever you’re smoking, you should really stop. Just put it down. I can hear the brain cells dying, screaming for help! - Admin
Comment by highcotton — 03.15.05 @ 9:54 pm
I guess it all comes down to ‘What part of illegal don’t you understand?’
Legal immigration is a good thing. All illegal immigration does is sap our resources, break our laws, fill our jails, create security nightmares….etc…etc…etc…
Good luck to those in the Minuteman Project.
Comment by Dean — 03.15.05 @ 10:28 pm
[sigh] Why is LaShawn always asleep when I attempt to post? “[Knock, knock] Hey, wake up you eastern-time zone sleepyhead!”
We are opposed, most of us, with the Federal government doing those things which they ought not to do, which they are prohibited from doing under the Constitution (remember that?)
Just as aggregious is when they are negligent in doing the things which are its responsibility. Perhaps ‘negligent’ is not the right word, it almost seems, from certain quarters, that they are WILLFULLY negligent in order do bring about a desired result.
This is, of course, the matter of our unsecured frontiers. The actions of the Minutemen, or even the South-western state gov’ts, would not even be necessary if the Federals would do what they are supposed to do.
Yes, it’s true; ‘these people’ are a threat to my people — my people being Americans, citizens of the several states.
“We are all immigrants” This would not be quite as silly if the million throng of people in question had more of the sensibilities of the true immigrant and less so, as it seems now, of an often hostile colonial population of a foreign power. That a great many of them are adherents to “Aztlan” speaks volumes. I am not ashamed to wish to protect my people or our culture and society.
Comment by Mark Slater — 03.15.05 @ 11:37 pm
Has anybody here read Michelle Malkin’s “Invasion”? I cannot quote the numbers right now, but she quite plainly lays out that while illegal immigration has gone on for generations, it is at an incredibly high number right now, with the great majority of them coming from Mexico. While a little bit of something bad is tolerable, sometimes even has benefits, when that little bit becomes a flood you’ve got a problem. Folks, we’ve got a problem. John, what can those of us not on the border do to help? Besides rant and rave at Wahington (which I’ve ben doing for a couple of years…)?
Comment by NeoConOne — 03.16.05 @ 12:04 am
La Shawn Barber’s Interview with a Minuteman Proje
La Shawn Barber has posted her excellent interview with a volunteer of the Minuteman Project. Here is one excerpt from her post:
Trackback by Now You Know — 03.16.05 @ 12:15 am
I liked John. I still have the following problems with those who are hyper-concerned about immigration:
1) a certain lack of compassion for the disadvantaged in other countries, who come here to improve their families’ lives (I hear you say, “they should do it legally”; but it takes years, and connections–if we were cutting the red tape for people whose labor we need, I’d take it seriously, but we aren’t).
2) I’m sorry, but whenever my local talk radio hosts discuss illegal immigration, the majority of callers talk about how Latin culture is ruining California. They are racists. I just can’t ally myself with people who can’t stand to hear Spanish spoken, and don’t like seeing taco stands downtown: they give me the heebie-jeebies. The Southwest would be no place to live without Mexican food, pinatas, and all the other good stuff that filters up through Mexico.
3) There are a lot of things in our lives–starting with produce, but including any number of goods and services–that will be a lot more expensive if we don’t have workers from Latin America willing to do these things.
Isn’t there any way to protect the border without disrupting the relationship between a willing seller of labor and a willing buyer? Check these people for criminal histories, create a way to track them (some sort of provisional I.D. card, or one with a mark on it), and then LET THEM IN. Most of these people pay far more in taxes than they get in services.
Comment by Attila Girl — 03.16.05 @ 3:35 am
1. The difficulty of immigrating here does not explain the people who do it legally and work with the system. While I would not take issue with streamlining the application process, we do not owe illegal aliens a living.
2. Talking about how an intruding culture is marring yours is not racist. Nor is it racist to expect someone to assimilate into their new country. By way of comparison, try illegally crossing into Finland and demand things be done solely in English for your benefit.
3. I have heard the argument about increased prices before and have yet to see any concrete evidence. I seriously doubt prices would spike to such horrifying levels as $5 for a head of lettuce but even if it does, so what? Learn to budget and plan things accordingly.
4. If the work is being done under the table, taxes are not being paid. If someone is here illegally, they do not have a valid SSN so they are not really paying into the system.
Comment by Cameron — 03.16.05 @ 7:26 am
“Isn’t there any way to protect the border without disrupting the relationship between a willing seller of labor and a willing buyer?”
Attila Girl, what you’re describing above is called legal immigration, which is accomplished every day by people who respect the laws of the United States.
Comment by RedBeard — 03.16.05 @ 8:29 am
Attila Girl, what you’re describing above is called legal immigration, which is accomplished every day by people who respect the laws of the United States.
Legal immigration is a very difficult, restricted, and bureaucratic process today. Unlike old America where all you had to do was land these shores and be prepared to work, today, you have terrible restrictions on business visas, work visas, etc. Aside of these very limited avenues, the only other way that is “open” to all is the Green Card Lottery. How can an ambitious person who wants to live a decent, dignified existence be told that his desire to exercise his inalienable right to work is subject to chance? To a LOTTO, a gamble, no less!
If we’re concerned about aliens on welfare, that’s a red herring: aliens (illegals AND legals) are much, much less likely to be on welfare than native Americans. And even if they are, is the solution to end welfare altogether or to violate the rights and sacrifice the interests of American employers of illegals whose taxes are helping to run the government and fund the war in the Middle East?
Comment by Highlander — 03.16.05 @ 10:29 am
La Shawn Barber Interviews A Minuteman Project Volunteer [Update]
La Shawn Barber has an interview with a volunteer of the Minuteman Project. The Minuteman Project is a group of now over 900 volunteers who plan to patrol the Arizona-Mexico border for a month, starting April 1, alerting Border Patrol…
Trackback by Diggers Realm — 03.16.05 @ 11:19 am
Highlander, in your first paragraph you appear to be saying that foreigners have a right to work in this country, and that legal immigration channels are unfairly restricting that right. I disagree completely. No foreign national has the right to enter this country without following the law, let alone the right to work in this country.
Comment by RedBeard — 03.16.05 @ 12:40 pm
No foreign national has the right to enter this country without following the law, let alone the right to work in this country.
And how do you know this? By what method? by what standard?
My take is: so long as a person has no criminal record and no ties to foreign enemies (like the Communist Party or Hezbollah, for instance), he retains his God-given rights to work for any employer he chooses. Just as an employer retains his rights to hire anyone he desires. Human rights are inalienable; they are not granted by the Constitution; they derive from man’s God-given nature. And you are not God.
The only reason so many people are making a fuss about illegals - aside of the serious border issue - is the issue of welfare benefits. But, native Americans (and I don’t mean just the “red Indians”) are just as guilty of this (pining for welfare) as illegals. Being born here does not make you any more human than the rest of the world. Human beings are not plants that grow in soil and do not migrate (freedom of movement is a right not a privilege, unless you have committed moral crimes). If the benefits and public schools are the problem, then end public shools and welfare benefits, including social security.
If the threat is to national security, then enact sound laws that will handle the proper flow of immigrants. What is truly required is to end the threat at root: half-measures that restrict individual liberties are ultimately meaningless, no matter what the folks at VDARE may think. These measures will only destroy America. The U.S. must END states who sponsor terrorism. What Bush is doing, however, is a kind of appeasement, and that’s what’s making everyone nervous. If he would just put Iran and Syria out of their misery once and for all, no-one would fear Islamic terror anymore.
As for the criminal aliens who are wreaking havoc at the border, this is a law enforcement issue, which is why we should seal the borders and then enact proper immigration policy.
If one is done without the other, the good illegals will do more and more desparate things, which will further compromise American security. Also, the economy will be jeopardised, since employers will find it hard to hire hardworking folks.
And then, we’ll be truly sorry.
Comment by Highlander — 03.16.05 @ 1:05 pm
Highlander, I’m quite simply baffled by your theories of rights vs. laws. Are you saying that just because we all have natural rights that we don’t have to obey the law? I believe the term for that is anarchy. It’s been tried. Didn’t work.
Comment by RedBeard — 03.16.05 @ 3:45 pm
“Good Illegals”?, “Human rights”? This merely obscures the real issue here. The people themselves are pawns (indeed, If I were one of them, I’d sure try to cross the old Rio Grande). There are those who believe that America has no distinct culture, that we are some kind of “universal” nation based on universal ideals.
Here in the real world, we real people do have a culture, we do have a language, and we wish to protect our borders.
Another thing, the middle class is being squeezed out. True, no American will do what the illegals will do for $5.15/hr, but we may just do it for $15. “Those people” are depressing wages (yes, I’ll pay more for a head of lettuce, gladly — maybe we’ll be saying, “If I knew it’d be this much trouble, I’d have picked my own lettuce”). Combine this with our manufacturing base fleeing for Red China, and this question looms larger.
Comment by Mark Slater — 03.16.05 @ 3:47 pm
I read all the comments about how the poor immigrants are trying to make a better life for themselves by breaking our laws. If they are willing to break our laws just to get here what respect will they have for them after? Here’s a thought: IMPROVE YOUR OWN COUNTRY. Instead of fighting for rights in your own countries it’s easier to demand them from us after you thumb your nose at our laws. I have no sympathy for them. Do your own work. If they work as hard at building their own country as they do destrying ours, they should be economic rivals in no time.
Comment by Chris — 03.16.05 @ 3:57 pm
If they are willing to break our laws just to get here what respect will they have for them after? Here’s a thought: IMPROVE YOUR OWN COUNTRY. Instead of fighting for rights in your own countries it’s easier to demand them from us after you thumb your nose at our laws. I have no sympathy for them. Do your own work. If they work as hard at building their own country as they do destrying ours, they should be economic rivals in no time.
Hold the phone, brother…
How many of the things you want to see the Bush Administration do in your lifetime do you think will get done? 5? 10? 2? 100?
Now, if it is so difficult for you, in a country that was formed during the Enlightenment, in the most advanced nation in the world, a nation that takes ideas seriously, to get your own socio-political agenda onto the national stage, how difficult do you think it’ll be for even the most politically-gifted, ethically-astute Mexican to get his agenda onto the Third-World, Mexican stage in his lifetime?
Nigh impossible.
So why should a person ahead of his time, philosophically-speaking, sacrifice the only life he has to an accident of birth?
If you can tell me why, then I’ll buy this “improve your country” charge.
By the way, a man’s home is wherever he chooses to lay his head (provided no rights are violated) and not where he was born. Just ask the Puritans who founded America.
Or perhaps they too should have stayed on the British Isles and “improved” them.
Comment by Highlander — 03.16.05 @ 4:13 pm
Correction: My statement should have read:
“the Puritans who settled America.”
Comment by Highlander — 03.16.05 @ 4:18 pm
Highlander, I’m quite simply baffled by your theories of rights vs. laws. Are you saying that just because we all have natural rights that we don’t have to obey the law? I believe the term for that is anarchy. It’s been tried. Didn’t work.
No, I’m not saying that rights and laws are necessarily in opposition. Laws, properly enacted, are based on the absolute need to protect man’s God-given rights.
But, laws are man-made, and error is possible. Hence the need to change laws when they are found wanting. This is why we struck down Jim Crow laws.
But, if, say, you lived on the “wrong side” of the law during Jim Crow or slavery, and you could have gotten away with breaking the law and living in freedom, wouldn’t you? Would you say “that would be anarchy?” or would you say, “to h@#$ with the law?”
Comment by Highlander — 03.16.05 @ 4:25 pm
Um, Highlander, many of the British did stay in the British Isles; and improved them.
So you are saying that violating the sovereignty of another nation is worth fighting and dying for, (you are aware that people die trying to cross the borders, right?), but fighting for your own rights in your own country is too much trouble? We in America just woke up one day and everything was perfect? We haven’t been doing the world’s heavy lifting for the past century or so? Well hell. I didn’t know the best way to live was just look around for someone who has more than I do and just take it from them. And here I’ve been working all my life. Jeez, don’t I feel like an ass.
Comment by Chris — 03.16.05 @ 4:29 pm
Um, Highlander, many of the British did stay in the British Isles; and improved them.
This is a non-sequitur; many Mexicans are in Mexico doing the same thing. But, not all British stayed on the Isles, and not all Mexicans will either. Deal with it.
So you are saying that violating the sovereignty of another nation is worth fighting and dying for, (you are aware that people die trying to cross the borders, right?), but fighting for your own rights in your own country is too much trouble?
You are dropping a lot of context here. You are forgetting that rational people do not risk their lives for outcomes with very low or non-existent probability. And, as I have pointed out, this “your own country” is baseless. Human beings are not plants. If you doubt this, just ask the member of your family who emigrated here. Or, if he was forcefully brought here, ask him (or any of his descendants) why he doesn’t want to return to Africa.
We in America just woke up one day and everything was perfect? We haven’t been doing the world’s heavy lifting for the past century or so
What do you mean by the world’s heavy lifting?
I didn’t know the best way to live was just look around for someone who has more than I do and just take it from them. And here I’ve been working all my life. Jeez, don’t I feel like an ass.
I don’t see any of the illegal aliens who are working hard - and they are the overwhelming majority - taking anything from me. I work VERY VERY hard and make good money. I don’t need government handouts or government controls to live well. I welcome, to America, people who use the opportunity they fight for and get to better their lives. I don’t resent them; I’m not scared of competition.
Tell me how the non-violent illegals are taking anything away.
Comment by Highlander — 03.16.05 @ 4:42 pm
So many good posts here…
John S…As you’ve noted, there is a history of lots of racist kooks and vigilantes operating on the border. Unfortunately, this places upon you the burden of proving yourselves to be different, which you are doing quite well. You have already done a great service by extending the discussion to the issue of national security. All the other discussions about the illegal situation in general are irrelevant for the moment and distracting from the urgency of the moment.
American Kitty,
I’m well aware of your plight. I lived in Phx for 13 yrs and still read the AZ Republic on the net most days. Your cries for help and action are falling on mostly deaf ears and I hope La Shawn’s readers realize the gravity of the situation. It has come to this…a few folks are actually trying to protect the country’s borders because the Commander in Chief won’t. Forget all the other illegal issues…this is a national defense emergency!
Highlander,
I have utmost sympathy for the original people and the near-genocide they suffered. And I have the same feelings for the Africans, who came here illegally in a very unusual and tragic way. I also have sympathy for the Mexicans who lived in the Southwest and were victims of a rather dubious war and land-grab. I’m also aware that Aztlan is on the mind of many and it is a real movement. But we are where we are and with all things considered, I must say that my 4 grandparents came here legally and morally. They were Germans from Russia, who fled just before WWI. We can’t keep clouding this issue at the moment. You have rightly noted that the border must be sealed immediately. The ins and outs of illegal immigration can be dealt with later but we need BOTH borders sealed now.
Comment by stan — 03.16.05 @ 4:54 pm
I have utmost sympathy for the original people and the near-genocide they suffered. And I have the same feelings for the Africans, who came here illegally in a very unusual and tragic way. I also have sympathy for the Mexicans who lived in the Southwest and were victims of a rather dubious war and land-grab. I’m also aware that Aztlan is on the mind of many and it is a real movement. But we are where we are and with all things considered, I must say that my 4 grandparents came here legally and morally. They were Germans from Russia, who fled just before WWI. We can’t keep clouding this issue at the moment. You have rightly noted that the border must be sealed immediately. The ins and outs of illegal immigration can be dealt with later but we need BOTH borders sealed now.
With all due respect, this entire paragraph is a non-sequitur. Nowhere in all my posts did I seek some kind of “sympathy” for suffering aborigines, or for enslaved peoples, or for “displaced” populations.
I do not seek sympathy for anyone; I do not make fallacious appeals to emotion. I am stating that a man’s right is a fact of nature, of reality; a fact that trumps any laws anyone anywhere, can enact. Rights are universal and inalienable.
I do not know anything about Azatlan or whatever, and I don’t care.
I am saying that screaming “national security! close the borders!” alone, is not good enough. If you are serious and sincere, you’ll canvass for both the enactment of proper, sensible visas AND sealing the border, at the same time and in the same breath. Anything else is disingenuous.
Comment by Highlander — 03.16.05 @ 5:07 pm
Highlander,
What did you mean when you said that the ancestors of we who are native-born didn’t come here legally or morally? Perhaps I misunderstood.
And what is your proof that “a man’s right is a fact of nature, of reality; a fact that trumps any laws anyone anywhere, can enact. Rights are universal and inalienable.”
If you’d like to hear some of my opinions on illegal immigration, go ahead and ask. My contention is that the first priority is to seal the borders and it should have happened on 9-12, 2001. Seal the borders today and continue the discussion of visas, etc. tomorrow.
Comment by stan — 03.16.05 @ 5:39 pm
Tell me how the non-violent illegals are taking anything away.
I already did in my earlier post and yet it was ignored. Check out point #4.
Comment by Cameron — 03.16.05 @ 6:21 pm
What did you mean when you said that the ancestors of we who are native-born didn’t come here legally or morally? Perhaps I misunderstood.
What I meant was that today’s Americans are all descendants of men and women who left their native countries either willingly or unwillingly.
Of those who were willing, some had to break the law, but most didn’t have to: it was American policy to welcome immigrants. (”Give us your tired, your poor.”) Of those that didn’t make the cut [whatever it was then], some certainly must have broken the law.
Of those who were unwilling, most of them were brought here lawfully: slavery was *legal* for a very long time. Which just goes to show how much in error the law can be. This, of course, is neither to denigrate the law qua law nor the need to live in a lawful society, but just to underscore that one must always remember that the law can be very wrong. In which case, if possible, it can be violated without remorse.
Some people came here both morally and legally, as you pointed out in your last post and as history attests. But, if we were to compare what is considered illegal immigration today to what was *legal* then, we’d find many similarities.
There were no hair-splitting distinctions between visa types and if you could work, you did.
And what is your proof that “a man’s right is a fact of nature, of reality; a fact that trumps any laws anyone anywhere, can enact. Rights are universal and inalienable.”
Just look at the facts: all proof rests on facts.
What do human beings do? what does being human consist of? You see people going to work, buying food, renting or buying shelter, producing goods and services; in other words, applying themselves to nature for the betterment of their lives.
Human nature consists of producing in order to live. Human life consists of pursuing values: food, shelter, family, love, personal fulfilment, happiness.
Life, for humans, consists of pursuing human values.
In applying themselves to reality, unlike animals, humans are not programmed to perform a specific set of actions. Unlike dogs who will always eat bones, or cats who will eat fish, men can actually choose to do new things and to create new things: clothes, buildings, airplanes, recipes, and constitutions. All these things require thought.
In other words, man needs to think in order to live as man. Thought implies choice; I have to choose to think in order to think. Man has free-will.
Now, in pursuing values, what can hinder a human being?
Well, there are the elements (rain, snow, tornados, earthquakes, etc.). There are also other animals: lions, tigers, bears, wolves, etc. Then, there are other men.
Now, in dealing with the elements and with animals, one has no choice but to use force in some way, since we cannot talk to the wind or reason with bears. The rain is implacable, so we build shelter to keep it away; lions are dangerous, so we kill them or cage them. But, men are not in this category; other men are like ourselves: they have the faculty of thought, so, all things being equal, we can reason with them. Besides, if they are reasonable, we can even *benefit* from them: the other fellow may have ideas that will make life much easier in dealing with the elements and the animals.
But, what if the other fellow is a rogue? What if he’s a liar or rapist or murderer? What if he’s irrational? How do we stop him?
We do so by drawing boundaries and saying that no man may cross another man’s proper boundaries. We call these boundaries “rights” and insist that no-one can claim ignorance of these rights.
We recognize that without these rights, peaceful life on earth is impossible to men. For evidence, look at history: societies which have respected rights have been prosperous; societies that haven’t haven’t. I don’t need to make a list of these countries; just look at much of Africa, Germany under Hitler, Soviet Russia, Japan before Fukuzawa, Medieval Europe, America before the Puritans.
Individual rights are political requirements of human survival.
Q.E.D.
My contention is that the first priority is to seal the borders and it should have happened on 9-12, 2001. Seal the borders today and continue the discussion of visas, etc. tomorrow.
And that may very well be the case. I’m not really against that. I don’t want to be blown up either. But, let me say that sealing the borders by itself will not eliminate the terrorist threat, which is what we’re really talking about here; only ending state sponsors will.
Good night.
Comment by Highlander — 03.16.05 @ 6:40 pm
4. If the work is being done under the table, taxes are not being paid. If someone is here illegally, they do not have a valid SSN so they are not really paying into the system.
No, this isn’t true: most illegals pay taxes because the INS and the IRS are not sharing that SSN information. I know because I know some illegals. Besides, even if they don’t pay *income* taxes, their employers are. Then they pay service taxes and property taxes, so what gives?
But, I thought you were a conservative and wanted lower taxes; now that some people may not be paying them (which they are), you’re for paying taxes. Whose side are you on?
Are you for limited government or not?
Comment by Highlander — 03.16.05 @ 6:45 pm
Glad to see you on board with the Minuteman Project. I blogged about it back on March 8.
http://saintknowitall.blogspot.com/2005/03/minuteman-project.html
Comment by saintknowitall — 03.16.05 @ 8:20 pm
Highlander,
Understood as to immigration. Having worked with refugees for 20 years, I can cite numerous cases to prove your point. More than a few are here under false pretenses.
As to human rights, you’ve written well and in detail so it will take me awhile to digest it.
As for illegals, you’re right about all the things that need to be done. I’m suggesting that an emergency sealing of the border is the first and most urgent step. You must admit that stopping terrorists abroad and working through all the other issues will take a VERY long time. We don’t have that time to seal the border. It may already be too late. The alarm that the Minutemen and the folks from AZ are sounding is real. Like he said, maybe some of you need to come see. I’ve lived in the SW for 40 years and have seen enough. Time to act.
Comment by stan — 03.16.05 @ 9:21 pm
Hi, LaShawn. All respect to you as always ! I wanted to add- I lived in El Salvador in 1985. DID YOU KNOW that ALL FOREIGNERS there had to report to the government center there for a full day of processing EVERY MONTH of their stay in the country, or not be able to fly out of the airport? They certainly guard their own rights very jealously, while basically calling us names and getting their local proxies to do likewise.
Comment by adele vargas — 03.17.05 @ 5:37 am
Besides, even if they don’t pay *income* taxes, their employers are.
Then why is it that I, as a legal citizen, have to pay income taxes then? If it is good enough for an illegal alien, why not for me?
Whose side are you on?
The side of the law-abiding citizen. The side of the immigrants that come here legally like the people that I know. Illegal aliens are breaking the law by being here and I cannot get behind any argument for them.
Comment by Cameron — 03.17.05 @ 7:02 am
Then why is it that I, as a legal citizen, have to pay income taxes then? If it is good enough for an illegal alien, why not for me?
It’s good enough for you because you’re against passing the laws that will make illegals legal. So long as you oppose those laws, serves you right.
The side of the law-abiding citizen. The side of the immigrants that come here legally like the people that I know. Illegal aliens are breaking the law by being here and I cannot get behind any argument for them.
You can’t hide behind “the law,” mister. The law is not an irreducible, unquestionable primary. Dictators use “the law” all the time to terrorize their citizens. If you cannot get behind any argument, fine. Sit back and enjoy the ride.
Comment by Highlander — 03.17.05 @ 9:55 am
East Germany erected the Wall to keep its population captive.
Israel is erecting a wall to protect itself from mad bombers.
The EU is thinking of building a wall in Eastern Europe to keep immigration under control.
The United States needs to build a wall least it become a victim of over immigration.
Comment by Anna — 03.17.05 @ 12:06 pm
Highlander, I’m really puzzled (still) as to where you’re coming from on this issue.
The law, in this country, is created by the people through their elected representatives. That’s why our country is called a free republic. If we don’t like the laws, we recall the representatives and replace them with better ones.
I can’t see the logic of trying to equate our democratically instituted laws with the dictatorial edicts of a despot. Do you really think the two systems are the same?
Comment by RedBeard — 03.17.05 @ 12:08 pm
Everyone seems to be missing the point — the deterioriation of our quality of life due to overpopulation. Everywhere one goes nowadays there’s a crowd of people already there. In many cities people are packed 15 or 20 into one tiny apartment. Hundreds of thousands of acres of farmland are being covered over by concrete and new housing every year. As an example, since 1950 the state of Illinois has lost an average of 77,000 acres of farmland per year due to construction. If this trend continues nationwide, and it is continuing, we will soon be forced to import or food.
Admittedly, we are a nation of immigrants; however, if one looks far enough back in history, the same can be said for any nation. Those other nations do not open their borders to all comers and neither should we. After all, although the U, S. has a large area, it does not have an infinite area. And eventually any finite area becomes filled. Then the people of that filled nation have to say, “Sorry, we have no more room.” The people of the United States should have done that about 1960!
God bless the Minuteman Project!
Comment by heck — 03.17.05 @ 2:15 pm
Cameron,
Most of the problem with “illegals” is identical to our drug problem. Dopers have created an insatiable demand for their drug of choice. U.S. employers continue to create an insatiable demand for low-wage labor. The problem is not with the illegals or with the government of Mexico, etc. It is with the “illegal” employers here who hire them and WANT them to come here. Start putting them in jail and see what happens.
Pres. Bush is 100% right when he says that they are doing jobs Americans won’t do. Not sure where you live but why don’t you go round up a bunch of “Americans” and bring them out to my home San Diego County. We need a whole bunch of strawberry pickers right now in the fields along I-5 in the Carlsbad area. If they don’t like that then we also have openings for avocado and citrus pickers, too. Housing is provided by shanties out in the little canyons under the trees. If they’re single, generous ladies come by regularly to relieve their tension. Pay is low but hey!…we have the best climate in the country plus the Zoo, Wild Animal Park and Sea World. And maybe they can work their way up and own their orange orchard someday. What’s not to like?
Comment by stan — 03.17.05 @ 3:22 pm
Heck,
The U.S. might be overpopulated in some urban areas but it is by no means overpopulated. West of Illinois lie Iowa and the Great Plains states, including Nebraska, where I grew up. I will guarantee you that they are not overpopulated. They are all dying to get more people to move there. I lived in Phoenix for 13 years. There is room there to grow west to the Colorado River (perhaps 150 miles) and south to Tucson (120 miles). Counting those two areas, there is room for 10s of millions and Arizona wants them. AZ is populated by hundreds of thousands from the state of Illinois. Maybe you should encourage more to move to AZ. U.S. population problems are based on distribution, not on raw numbers.
Comment by stan — 03.17.05 @ 4:11 pm
Oops! orange grove not orange orchard. I grew up in a farm state, Nebraska, but I’m a city boy. My bad.
Comment by stan — 03.17.05 @ 4:16 pm
Of those who were willing, some had to break the law, but most didn’t have to: it was American policy to welcome immigrants. (”Give us your tired, your poor.”)
Hmmm, really? Let me see, in 1920 when my great-grandparents immigrated from from Norway:
No Chinese were allowed.
Also excluded were persons convicted of political offenses, lunatics, idiots, and persons likely to become public charges.
Admission of contract laborers was banned.
Polygamists and political radicals were excluded.
People with physical or mental defects or tuberculosis and children unaccompanied by parents were excluded.
Illiterates, persons of psychopathic inferiority, men as well as women entering for immoral purposes, alcoholics, stowaways, and vagrants were excluded.
Japanese immigration was restricted.
You’re sure full of hot air, Highlander, but I have yet to see you successfully defend your point. In fact, I’m not even sure if you have a point.
Comment by asm — 03.17.05 @ 4:37 pm
Amen, asm…a number of my folks, Germans from Russia, were turned back for some of those reasons and went to their death in the days of Stalin.
But no need to react emotionally to Highlander. Your argument proved your point.
Comment by stan — 03.17.05 @ 4:59 pm
stan,
Correct. The city of Philadlphia, PA, the size of a moderately large county, has 3 times the population of the entire state of Wyoming. Wyoming, BTW, is noticeably larger than Pennsylvania as a whole.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 03.17.05 @ 5:00 pm
Actually, asm and Highlander are both right. The policy has changed many times over the years. It has been very open, and it has been very selective, depending on the political and economic climate at the time. It’s a dynamic thing, this democratic republic of ours.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 03.17.05 @ 5:04 pm
Stan,
Why would you want to have all those open spaces filled with people? For what purpose? Once those spaces are filled, they will be filled for always. Then what? There are people living in India who, also, don’t think that India has a population problem. I find your view just as irrational as theirs. Or, perhaps it’s just a matter of perception? Since 1950 the population of Nebraska has increased by almost 1/4. I would wager that there are older Nrbraskans who think their state has become over populated.
Comment by heck — 03.17.05 @ 6:41 pm
Heck,
I didn’t say I wanted the population to grow. I didn’t say I wanted Arizona or the Great Plains to grow. I just said that those are the facts. The Great Plains are actually de-populating. And I would doubt that any Nebraskans think there’re too many people. They are devastated that so many of their young people have left the state. The population has only begun to grow again in the last decade. And this has only happened because people are living longer and because places like Lincoln and Omaha are creating a few jobs. Another reason is the presence of an increasing number of Mexicans, legal and illegal.
As a Californian and living in a county which has almost double Nebraska’s population, I would love to send about 10 million of our folk somewhere else. Many are moving away but its still not enough. We’d still have 27 million, which is 6-7 more than Texas but where can I send them? Any ideas?(ha!)
Comment by stan — 03.17.05 @ 7:05 pm
I don’t understand why it is so hard to seal the borders. In the former Soviet Union borders were literally sealed. They had a much longer border than United States does. Several lines of barbed wire, a strip of plowed ground and vigilant patrolling did the trick. I think the USA being much more advanced technically and financially could do at least as well.
Comment by lwlfnm — 03.20.05 @ 1:05 pm
lwlfnm,
Businessmen want their cheap labor and both parties are trolling for votes. Its a matter of political will, not technology.
Comment by stan — 03.20.05 @ 4:07 pm
At War On The Border
Remember America’s own pop-up militia, the Minutemen volunteers who will soon begin patrolling the US/Mexico border. La Shawn Barber has now conducted an interview with one of the Minutemen and posted Part 1 and Part 2 on her website….
Trackback by Daily Pundit — 03.21.05 @ 2:48 pm
US Paramilitaries
La Shawn has an interview with a member (he has a nom de guerre of John Smallberries, right out of the movie
Trackback by John Robb's Weblog — 03.23.05 @ 7:44 am
Borders and Tunnels
Two items from John Robb’s Weblog today: one from the New York Times on an elaborate tunnel discovered at the Mexican border, and another on a citizens’ militia in Arizona to patrol the border. This is related to Nicole Simon’s…
Trackback by PapaScott — 03.23.05 @ 1:36 pm
if bush had his way and if not for 9.11 there would be people
waltzing across that border right now, open border.
Comment by ed — 03.30.05 @ 8:15 pm