As I was reading “Mexican president tells U.S. to control extremists,” I realized that I was angry at the wrong person. Vicente Fox can’t do any more than George Bush will let him do, despite all his high-toned grandstanding.
Fox said he plans to push for U.S. immigration reform during a meeting with President Bush in Texas next week. He also said the two leaders, along with Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin, likely will announce a plan to expand the scope of the North American Free Trade Agreement.Mexico’s National Human Rights Commission recently issued a warning about several new grass-roots movements inspired by Arizona’s Proposition 200. Other Mexican officials have cited the Minuteman Project, a plan by activists to patrol the Arizona-Mexico border during April, as a sign of rising extremism. (Source)
Fox is messing with the wrong country. This is the spirit of America and its people. Grass-roots movements have always and will continue to rise as long as citizens believe they’re not being represented by the people they put in office. George Bush, if you’re reading this blog, that means YOU!
Fox whines, “We totally reject the idea of these migrant-hunting groups. We will use the law, international law and even U.S. law to make sure that these types of groups, which are a minority…will not have any opportunity to progress.”
The leader of an insignificant third world country thinks he can run the United States and dictate its immigration policy? As if he really cares about his people. This is the real deal: Fox wants all the poor Mexicans out of his country. I call it “class cleansing.” But Fox is about to get a lesson in the new American Revolution. You may punk a country’s leader, who’s beholden to special interest groups and Lord only knows who and what else, but you can’t punk its people. That’s why I’m 100 percent behind the Minuteman Project and will support it every chance I get.
Organizers of the Minuteman Project say they have signed up more than 950 volunteers, including 30 pilots with aircraft, to patrol the border for 30 days beginning April 1. The activists say they will notify the Border Patrol if they see border-crossers and will not confront them directly.Minuteman co-organizer Chris Simcox said participants were exercising their constitutional rights.
“Vicente Fox can rant and rave all he wants, but he obviously doesn’t understand what a democracy means,” Simcox said. “We have been working within the law.”
Watch and learn, Mr. Bush. That’s the way real men talk.
Fox is bellowing hot air. He’s not the problem. The problem is a president who wants to excuse lawbreakers and invite them to stay; stay on welfare and continue overloading the system (follow the link and weep), stay in our jails (more tax dollars), and gain more rights than Americans. Oh, and don’t forget about the national security danger of a wide-open border. See the Federation for American Immigration Reform for all the statistics.
Also see Some Questions for King George.
There are no words to express what I’m feeling right now.
Update (3/18): Gringo translated a Spanish article about the Minuteman Project:
We are on the threshold of what will be the outbreak of the most abominable human hunting season known among the history of men on the face of the earth: the pompously named “Minuteman Project.” This project intends to seal the border of the United States with Mexico through the illegal patrolling of civilians armed to the teeth. These civilians, assembled by the “patriot” James Gilchrist and others of his stripe, say they are tired of the federal government not controlling the flow of migration. Because of this, they have decided to take the matter into their own hands.The illegal activity of the aforementioned vigilante border project… (Emphasis added)
Dig the irony here! If a group of law-abiding Americans standing watch on the border is illegal activity, what does he call sneaking into a country in violation of that country’s law???
This is all Bush’s fault. He’s emboldened these Hispanic idiots/extremists. By the way, if you’ve never heard of the Gringo, check him out. Pay special attention to what he says about Spanish-language media.
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Well said, and I couldn’t agree more. Pres. Bush is right on alot of things, but he couldn’t be more wrong on border security and illegal immigration.”Normalization” = amnesty anyway you cut it. Great blog by the way, I’m a regular reader now.
La Shawn,
Do whatever is necessary to get your post disseminated as far and wide as possible.
You were right, Stan. This has to be framed as a national security issue to make an impact.
Woman, you lost your script. You are supposed to be the yes-woman for the Man in the Whitehouse. At least, that’s what I understand from the trollish comments you get from time to time.
Good post, good points, all. Law breakers should be treated like law breakers, not given a free pass.
Unfortunately we see the flaws of politics.
President Bush, while I KNOW he sees illegal immigration as a problem, has some political bills to pay to the Hispanic community.
Darned if he does and darned if he doesn’t. If he does what he should, the Dems who want this country redefined and/or destroyed as chartered would leap on the Latino vote and promise to “take care of them.” The GOP would lose the ground they have gained with the “invaders.”
I say STICK TO PRINCIPLE and risk our majority if it means enforcing our laws, protecting our borders and preserving our sovereignty and integrity as a nation.
If it was up to me, not only would I shut down that border with overwhelming force, I would mine a buffer zone between the two countries. If you make it pass the minefield, then you have to face the snipers. I think THAT would be a legit deterrant to ILLEGAL immigration and encourage them either staying home to make their own country better or enter this nation via the LEGITIMATE means which are always in place.
La Shawn,
Great write-up it. This should be sent to the RNC.
The United States should also send Mexico a bill for the cost of taking care of the illegal aliens here.
I also support changing the law that says that ANY person born on US soil is an American citizen. That is silly when pregnant ILLEGALS are crossing the border just so their future welfares suckers can take advantage of “free” government services.
Raymond,
I would actually send the bill to Pres. Bush and all the employers, both Dem and Rep, that hire them. But be careful…Pres. Bush is right when he says that they are doing jobs that we won’t do. La Shawn is saying that the urgency goes beyond the “illegal” situation. Because of the terrorist threat, national defense has to come first and now. She is right on. Take a look on a map of CA and AZ. Starting in East San Diego County, that border is largely unprotected, hundreds and hundreds of miles of open country.
I agree with you 100%, LB! While I would not change my vote (think what Kerry would be doing right now) it does make me at least *consider* wishing I could chage it. I think you and Michelle Malkin should team up on the Immigration issue – that would be quite a formidable team
Raxter
PS – Come to think of it, would Kerry be doing much different that the President is at this time?
La Shawn, I love you.
Live Free or Die.
I agree with LaShawn, but I don’t agree with the position that they do jobs that we will not do. They actualy do jobs that we won’t REQUIRE our welfare suckers to do before they receive “free money” from da gubmint.
If we put a work requirement on receiving WIC, welfare or foodstamps or other programs, you would either see these jobs filled by Americans or those same Americans would work a heck of a lot harder to make sure they don’t make choices that put them in a position to have to work these jobs.
No work. No eat. That is how it is with me.
Stan, we just need to hold our elected reps accountable and excercise recall options when they don’t do what we tell them to do in our names.
We need to make sure that our elected officials FULLY understand that our brand of democracy is defined as a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC and that they are obligated to do what WE, the ELECTORATE says or orders them to do. NOT what they think.
When we tell them we want the borders close, they had better vote to do it or we recall their butts home. Simple. And we do not wait until their terms are up either. Put them on the spot DURING the campaign. Make them publicly commit to doing what we say and not what they THINK we want. they should not be sent up there to think but to do what they have been mandated to do in our names since we can’t all physically fit in the legislative chambers.
George Bush needs to wake up and pay some attention to those who put him into office. His callous disregard for public opinion in this matter puts him at odds with his core constituency.
The comment about King George brings to mind the groundswell of public outrage over the heinous Stamp Act in colonial America. The British had a tiger by the tail and didn’t realize it. Patrick Henry, while railing against the act in the Virginia House of Burgesses, said this: “Caesar had his Brutus, Charles I his Cromwell, and George III” (at this point the chamber erupted in cries of treason) “George III may profit by their example. If that be treason, make the most of it.”
Ok, it’s not the same deal, and no one is calling for Mr. Bush’s head, but I really enjoy visualizing Patrick Henry in full voice, letting the world know that the people were not going to be pushed around any longer.
Mr. Bush had better come to his senses, and soon, or this is going to get very ugly.
As a reluctant member of the MMP (reluctant only because I would prefer our government to handle this – whilst I spent my vacation on the beach, rather then in the Arizona desert) I’m grateful for the support, not only of Ms. Barber – but for all the people that are reading about, talking about, and helping move this issue to the forefront of the agenda. It renews my hope in the great experiment in governance we call America.
One point I cannot stress enough is the need to de-couple the issues of immigration from that of border control. The reason the border situation has been allowed to deteriorate to chaos is the cross linking of these issues. Attempt to close the border, and you are anti-immigrant or a xenophobe. Clearly this argument is false – locking your front door does not make you ‘anti-xxxxxxx’ <– Insert race of choice here. The value of a secure border (north and south) is equally simple to understand, if not to implement.
While I risk digressing here – couldn’t one make the case that the current de-facto open border policy is race biased and geographically insensitive? Assume for a moment that the United States really needs more citizens to take low-paying jobs, and this is indeed healthy for us as a nation. Shouldn’t those opportunities be extended to all the people of the world, in a fair and equal manner?
Why are Africans, Asians, or Arab immigrants not given equal opportunity as Hispanics to become Americans – legally or not? During my service in both the Middle East and Africa – I encountered many people who would love to emigrate to the United States. They were equally hard working, good hearted, and eager to contribute as our Mexican neighbors supposedly are. However – because of the accident of their birth, they are unable to emigrate by simply walking. Too bad for them?
My point being this: Why should good-hearted people, simply because of the color of their skin, or place of their birth be denied fair opportunity to the American dream? If we need ‘new blood’ in our country, why does the majority of it have to come from one place? Does this honor the diversity that has made us great?
If uncontrolled immigration is good, then doesn’t it follow that more is better? Why limit ‘jobs American’s won’t do’ solely to people of Hispanic ethnicity? Why should people of one ethic background be afforded opportunities that are denied to others? Is this not the core belief of racial superiority, which results in the vilest, and deplorable discrimination a society can inflict?
Back on topic – don’t get distracted. There are all kinds of legitimate, but divisive issues linked to border control. If you deviate off topic, you risk being drawn into the quagmire of endless debate, followed by token feel-good actions. Hammer, hammer, and hammer away at the core issue – secure the border. Once that has been achieved, we can debate the ancillary issues at our leisure, and in relative safety.
Thanks to all of you – I have real hope this issue has reached it’s tipping point, and positive, substantial change is about to occur!
John S
“Home is where you hang your hat” – Dr. Emilio Lizardo
Easy answer to this problem; Annex Mexico
Living in Arizona, the border is one issue I think Mr. Bush needs be looking at a little more closely. Like the Democrats, the Republicans are turning thier back for one reason and one reason only: votes.
And if Mr. Fox put the effort into solving the problems in Mexico which makes his people want to go north as he does in politicing the border, maybe we wouldn’t have this much of a problem.
“The leader of an insignificant third world country thinks he can run the United States and dictate its immigration policy? As if he really cares about his people. This is the real deal: Fox wants all the poor Mexicans out of his country. I call it ‘class cleansing’.”
Good one! And like I’ve said before: Bush and his buddies are out of touch–they live behind their gates, far away from the neighborhoods and police districts and courts where their cheap labor dwells. And then there are all the people who profit financially or professionally from the illegals.
I found a site that might be helpful in getting our voices heard: http://grassfire.org/
Scroll to the bottom to find a link to “Secure Our Borders” petition. They tackle lots of topics which we may or may not agree with, but I think we can all agree on securing our borders. If anyone else knows background info or anything on this Grassfire group, please share. They seem good enough on the surface, and I hope they are good through and through.
Raymond,
I must still agree with Pres. Bush 100% when he says that illegals do the work we won’t do. The welfare system is much more complicated and nuanced than you might think. There is a fairly strong work program in place for welfare recepients these days, most of whom are single women with kids. If you think we can all of a sudden send them out to the vegetable fields and fruit orchards and restaurant kitchens….hey! I still want to eat good fruit and vegetables for a decent price, picked by folks who work hard and know what the heck they’re doin’. Whatever some of us seem to think of them, our food and service industry is built on their backs, much like the textile industry was built on the backs of the slaves in the cotton fields, and we owe them.
But you’re right on the political front…I’ve been disappointed in Arizonans, who have been free to whine and complain and even go to the border…put some pressure on your politicians and if they won’t do something…recall them. Otherwise, stop your whining. La Shawn is going over your heads to put on pressure where you apparently are not. And you call yourself a red state…
Stan,
I challenge you to give us the quote where President Bush said that illegals do the work we won’t do. Every statement, press conference, or word that President Bush is on transcripts on the whitehouse.gov web site. Liberals say this but Bush doesn’t. Bush says something entirely different.
Conservatives nor Liberals agree with Bush on Bush’s immigration (workers permit policy proposals).
Your last paragraph is reminiscent of the people bashing those parents who were pulling their kids out of Nebraska schools and putting them in better schools. There were posters here (just like you) who were bashing the people who were actually trying to do something good for their kids (you are bashing those who are trying to seal the border) and saying that the only way to fix the problem is to get the politicians to do something about it. Yet the Nebraskans are paying $7,500 per pupil per year for there schools and the parents can’t wait for the politicians to do something about it.
And neither can we as a nation wait for our politicians to do something about our border. Our national security is imperative to fix now (while there are islamofacists out there willing to kill as many people as possible (the infidels).
LaShawn, interesting post. My hubby is a middle school counselor here in Oregon (talk about the belly of the beast) and attended a big Methamphetimine task force convention yesterday. A whole day of a lot of hot air and here’s why: only 20% of the methamphetimine is USA made. Guess where the other 80% comes from? Mexico. So while the western states HEMORRHAGE money trying to combat a drug straight out of hell, all their efforts are of little use because even if we take care of 100% of domestic meth labs/operations, that’s only 20%. It’s dizzying to think about all the angles/ways that illegal immigration and unsecured borders cost us gazillions of dollars, and lives.
Luke 13:32 “And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that Fox, Behold, I cast out devils. . .”
Which is exactly what we should say to Vincente Fox.
As Ben Anderson – a retired U.S. Army colonel living in Sierra Vista, Arizona who has made a detailed study of the border danger since the flood of illegals began through Cochise County in 1997 – said:
“There is only one way to handle this…. In a world now filled with biowarfare agents, backpack nuclear devices and chemical weapons like Sarin gas, we must militarize the border. There is no other way to stop the flow.
Onm the meantime, God speed for the Minuteman Project.
Hope I don’t get redacted by the overnight comment moderation. The problem addressed here is much deeper than previous posts have suggested. What border is more porous than all others? Is it the Northern border, where the government is speeding headlong towards an EU style appeasement and the immigration standards are that of a free EU? The ocean/harbor borders where inspection of incoming large containers are non-existent? The airline border, which has been breached and is now the most observed and analyzed border of all or the southern border where people pour across daily and little documentation or no documentation is the standard.
We can throw out the air border because as much as the MSM wants us to believe that our money is wasted there, that is just not true. The air border is now considered a “hard target”. With the fielding of the new fast attack boats by the Coast Guard and the x-ray technology being employed on the water border those would by all accounts be considered hard targets (does anyone doubt the professionalism of our military, which the Coast Guard, BTW is now a major player, after years of second hand citizenship).
That leaves us with the borders of consternation, north and south. We have thwarted two known attempts at our Northern border, the LAX bomber and the millenium bomber. What blur’s these accomplishments is the fact that the three major terrorist cells we have identified and eliminated are all located in the north, paralell to the border. Portland Ore. Bufalo N.Y. and Mich. are the places where these cells were found. Mere coincidence that they are on the Northern border?
The southern border problems are much different, people pay huge sums of money (relative to their income) to get here by hook or crook. Drugs flow freely with implicit knowledge of government agencies and violence is the norm. The leader (heh) of this country constantly rails against the U.S. and implicitly (although subliminally) suggests to his people that Cali., Tex., N.M., and Nev. are Mexican provisional property and belong to the poor and oppressed. This leads to gangs like LaRaza and it’s followers. For terrorists to breach this border they would be interrupting the drug trade as well as the human trade. In this environment, that would be suicide (can I tag along…I promise I won’t say anything about the drugs).
We are a nation of immigrants. We can not stop people from trying to get here. What we can do is document those that arrive. This technology is not beyond our means. Like Vincente Fox we can issue I.D. cards and register these cards into a database. We have to make the regulation/law bulletproof (ACLU and Cali. judges will respond with their usual zeal). The contributing aliens that are here would then fall under current immigration laws and the riff-raff would be weeded out. Of course this is all a pipe dream without closing the South border as we have closed the North border.
Politically the President could push this all off on Sensenbrenner and his call for I.D. cards. It would pass both houses since the groundwork has already been laid.
Before everyone goes crazy, I fully realize I have not addressed the following issues, assimilation (thanks VDH), funding, partisanship, voter appreciation, what we owe Hispanics?, and many other aspects. I figure this was too long already and no one would read it. Sa Loon
LaShawn,
For what it’s worth, here’s another bit of info you may not be aware of. A (Phoenix) radio station here reported last week that a senate delegation from Mexico was coming here to seek a meeting with our governor to essentially take issue with and raise objection to our recently approved prop. 200, concerning illegals. She refused to meet with them, basically to send a message that it’s their country she holds responsible for the problem. (and she’s a Democrat, showing more backbone than the Pres. on the issue). Go figure?
Illegals may be doing jobs now that nobody else wants, but I suspect that if they were gone, the market would find solutions. Weren’t similar arguments made about slave labor and the price of cotton?
Why aren’t we hearing more from the governors, senators and representatives from California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas–or the environmentalists for that matter? From what I hear the land near the border is becoming a vast garbage dump. People who wouldn’t allow roads in National forests so a huge blow down of trees could be partially harvested are silent on this. Why?
I’m going to defend President Bush here.
First, does anyone really believe that Mr. Fox “punked” GWB?. It’s absurd! Our President stands up to the scariest bunch of terrorists immaginable but is somehow coyed by this third-world “baffoon.”
If the President’s position on Mexican illegals is baffeling, the truth is downright frightful. The amount of fed. govt. spending is SO HIGH that without the pennies we collect in payroll taxes from ILLEGALS the govt. would collapse. I believe that our President was shown this fact, and his ONLY choice for now is to continue to ignore the Mexican invasion, or to admit to the American people that the current ammount federal committments is UNSUSTAINABLE!
For about 40 years we allowed govt. employees to continue to collect paychecks, while deferring their responsibilities to some time in the future. That time has arrived. The fed. govt. is the LARGEST PRIVATE EMPLOYER IN THE USA ! The Founding Fathers would turn over in their respective graves upon learning this! We can begin to fix this problem one step at a time, or we can admit that the only financial solution to this crisis that’s been looming since FDR is complete liquidation. BANKRUPTCY! And then a fresh start with adherence to libertarian principles. No more social security, medicare, welfare, or about 90% of all the other ponzi schemes foisted upon us by dishonest polititions.
President Bush is no lackey, chump, punk or any of those other simple explainations. He was given two choices, I believe, and he chose the LESSER of two evils.
“The amount of fed. govt. spending is SO HIGH that without the pennies we collect in payroll taxes from ILLEGALS the govt. would collapse.”
You’re facetious of course. Most illegals work for cash(private contract or for private contractors who pay them in cash). They have no SS number for tax withholding.
Their burden on our social support systems, if you read La Shawn’s full post and associated links, is what’s bankrupting us, for heaven sake!
Jim R.
I fully agree that the Mexican invasion is overwhelming the “social support systems”. But I’m not sure about your statistic “most.” It’s debatable whether “under-the-table” or “over-the-table” constitute a majority of illegal workers in America but I can assure you that more than a few have used FAKE ssn’s.
Just how over burdened is our system?
Pajamazon:
How does that Kool-Aid taste? GWB will stand up(actually, the military is doing all the standing) against terrorists because he is not worried about losing the terroist vote and his buddies aren’t running terrorist groups that depend on cheap terrorist labor. This is about money plain and simple. GWB IS supporting the people that put him in office. All of the corporate leaders that have added millions and millions to his election and re-election and to the cofers of the RNC that want the cheap labor that crosses the border everyday. Take off the rose colored glasses and wake up, this is not about being punked, it is about returning a favor to his supporters.
The border situation is even bigger than just National Security (although that should be enough), these illegal immagrants are lowering the living standards of blue collar Americans. I don’t know if the President said “…jobs Americans won’t do.” but, they will do jobs for wages Americans can’t live on. How is an American family of four suppose to compete in a job market with illegal immigrants that are willing to live 6-8 people in a 3 bedroom apartment and share all of the bills?
I have supported the President in the past but, to all of the Kool-Aid drinkers that think he is actually going to do something about this, you are going to be sorely disappointed.
M. Woodward
I’m not sure you actually read my statement. Otherwise your comments might make sense!
So it’s not about being punked, but returning favors to supporters?
So although you supported our President in the past but now you accuse him of TREASON! Of forfeiting the good of this nation for political gain. With supporters like you President Bush doesn’t need detractors.
Stan?
Did you give up?
Pajamazon:
You used the word treason not me. Do you have any data that supports your view that the US Government would go bankrupt without illegal immigrant “tax dollars”? Other than maybe sales tax, which goes to the state that they reside, alot of illegals don’t pay income tax. If they don’t have a social security number how can they pay taxes? Unfortunately, it is because of members of the electorate like you that will always come up with some excuse for unacceptable in politicians, no accountablity. President Bush is not a king, and no one is above criticism when they represent an entire people. I expect more from the President and there is nothing wrong with that.
With supporters like you, who needs a President, a monarchy will suit you just fine.
M. Woodward.
There are plenty of studies which take into account subsidaton of hospitals in the border states, costs of incarcerating illegal immigrants who have committed crimes (25% of the criminal population) and attendance of schools and whatnot that there is nowhere near the addition to either our economy or tax revenue versus what it takes from our federal government or other institutions because they are here illegally.
Pajamazon is incorrect. And he won’t be able to produce an accurate study or report.
Baklava:
I know, phantom studies just to try and prove a point.
All I’m saying Pajamazon, regarless of whether or not you support a politician, they are supposed to represent you. If you give them a pass when they are not supporting your best interests, than what we end up with is a totalitarian form of government not a republican (the US is a republic, not the party). No President is more important than the country as to be able to be completely above criticism.
“The leader of an insignificant third world country thinks he can run the United States and dictate its immigration policy? ”
mexico isn’t insignificant. Sounds like we’re paying a lot of attention to mexico.
More political pandering. It WILL take a terrorist bringing a bomb across the border and setting it off for us to do anything about it. Too many Americans don’t care or are too ill-informed to hold their representatives accountable. The cost hasn’t gotten high enough for “average” Americans to do anything remotely responsible as to call, write, or e-mail their political representation.
We are led by politicians and not leaders. What matters to them are votes and popularity. Leaders act, even when unpopular. Politicians only act when faced with being booted out of office.
It will be too little, too late.
M. Woodward – Baklava
I have NO data to support my theory.
What I’m suggesting is an explanation for President Bush’s conflicting positions on Mexican immigration.
M. Your hostility towards me is puzzling? I probably lean more to the right than you but I wont insult you for that. What part of fake ssn’s don’t you understand? That has been the TYPICAL method of gaining employment for illegals. NOT becoming lifelong day-labor ditch-diggers.
Your throwing the President under the bus because of this simplistic accusation that he isn’t representing YOU . What if he WAS? What if his only alternative was to admit that our expectations of government are unsustainable, and that a massive reorganization of the fedreral government, sure to cause global instability, is the only real solution?
As for the term TREASON. I’ll retract that. Instead I’ll use LIBEL!
Yes, this is only a theory. But if you can offer a better explanation of President Bush’s policy than, “HE’s repaying his supporters please post it. You are slandering a good man in a dificult position.
It’s an incorrect “theory”.
Hostility (almost zero) is purely based on incorrect information being spouted. We are merely trying to correct you but you won’t allow it.
We aren’t throwing the president under the bus. We are simply disagreeing with his policy with regards to illegal immigration.
Not slander. Disagreement. Thanks for playing but you failed (theories galore).
I disagreed with Mr. Bush strongly on some issues in 2000, and I still voted for him as being a far better choice than Al Gore. I disagreed with him strongly on some issues in 2004, and I still voted for him as being a far better choice than John Kerry. I disagree with him strongly on some issues today, and….. well, you get my point.
Same with me Redbeard. I agreed with Bush about 70% of the time but I agreed with Gore and Kerry about 5% of the time.
10% of my disagreement with Bush is on this illegal immigration issue that pajamazon just made an incorrect theory on with no information to support his claim.
Baklava
I should let this go but…….
Which “information spouted” was incorrect? You claim hostility is the proper response to it so I’m trying to find it so as to validate your “correction”…….. Let’s see….
George Bush is a good man.
Current levels of government are unsustainable.
Illegal aliens use fake documentation to get REAL jobs
Thank you for the correction. Now I understand! All is hunky-dory! The stock market is SOUND. Social security, medicare and all the other government handout programs are in great shape!
The US dollar is up! Once we get rid of these Mexicans everyrthing’s gonna be great!
This here quote of yours, “The amount of fed. govt. spending is SO HIGH that without the pennies we collect in payroll taxes from ILLEGALS the govt. would collapse. I believe that our President was shown this fact, and his ONLY choice for now is to continue to ignore the Mexican invasion, or to admit to the American people that the current ammount federal committments is UNSUSTAINABLE!”
The president couldn’t have been shown that fact because it doesn’t exist and you yourself called it a theory.
First rule of holes. Stop digging when you are in one.
Pajamazon:
I am not attempting to direct hostility towards you, I am just speaking matter of factly. Your theory is flawed because the highest 40% of wage earners in this country pay 80% of total taxes. Being that the cutoff for the top 45% is about 76K/yr and that emcompasses about 45 million families (See CBO Study). Even with very liberal estimates has the population of illegal immigrants in this country at between 8-9 million
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TX Minuteman 03.20.05 at 1:15 am
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Jim R 03.20.05 at 5:26 am
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stan 03.20.05 at 4:02 pm
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stan 03.20.05 at 4:22 pm
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RedBeard 03.20.05 at 9:52 pm
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stan 03.21.05 at 12:18 pm
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Chris Roberts 03.21.05 at 5:53 pm
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Raymond,
I will guarantee you 100% that the President said that Mexican immigrants of the illegal stripe are doing jobs that we won’t do but I don’t have a lot of time to research it for you. I saw him say it this week and read about it also in the paper this week. He said it a little while ago. This is why he wants some kind of legalization of the folks that are already here. He is acknowledging the reality of the situation.
As to your other disagreements with me, you haven’t been reading carefully. The situation in AZ has existed ever since the fence was erected in San Diego County. Phoenix is currently the primary gathering point for illegals who are heading to the Midwest or East. Those who are responsible first are the senators and reps and citizens from that conservative state because they have not put enough pressure on the President. (It was a conservative San Diego County rep who was the driving force behind our fence). Because they have not, the Minutemen will gather to help the Border Patrol by pointing out, but not apprehending, illegals. I suspect one of their primary motives is to gain national attention to the problem.
I’m the one who wants the borders sealed now, including the northern one. This does not mean that the border crossings should be closed but that all border traffic should be funneled through them, where people can be checked. An article in my hometown newspaper today says that 1.1 million illegals were apprehended last year and the Border Patrol estimates that at least twice that amount made it through to the U.S. It also said that OUR GOV’T ASSUMES THAT TERRORISTS HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH IN THE PAST! “…recent government reports (say) that terrorists might be using illegal immigration trails to sneak into the country.” (caps for effect and disbelief!). I think I’m on your side and I will try to find a record of the President’s words. I am by no means a liberal trying to put words in his mouth.
White House.gov has all of his uttered words Stan.
Your quote, “I will guarantee you 100% that the President said that Mexican immigrants of the illegal stripe are doing jobs that we won’t do ” is 100% false.
La Shawn,
Thank you for your indulgence. I enjoy your post and do not mean to become a distraction from your themes.
To M. and Baklava I must go. I will acceed that I could have been clearer in stating my theory as such. I still believe our President made hard decisions because he is a good man. Not a bad one. But I’ll leave that for another day.
I believe our President is a good man also Pajamazon. I disagree with his policy towards granting workers permits for 3 years to illegal immigrants.
I only quibble with those who misinform. You stated misinformation. I quibbled.
Then the gov’t site is being selective about retaining presidential quotes. To come at it from another angle, why do you think he’s wanting to legalize all illegals much like Pres. Reagan did in the mid 80s? If they’re taking all our jobs, why doesn’t he do something about it?
I’m 100% correct but I guess I’ll have to prove it to you. Give me a little time. I have more to do than write on blogs.
Go there and you’ll see how complete (non-selective) they are.
Before you go there you should probably refrain from making the accusation again.
You are also factually wrong about his “wanting to legalize all illegals”.
You obviously haven’t read Pres. Bush’s proposal.
Baklave,
Check out http://www.ontheissues.org... click on George Bush and then on immigration. His whole point is that we need Mexican immigrants (illegals) to do work that we won’t do. This has always been our country’s policy. Africans were brought in to work sugar, tobacco and cotton because whites were too lazy, too few and too weak.
I understand your point. Liberals love to say those words. Unfortunately President Bush hasn’t.
National Security is more important to me than what liberals perceive as a job that Americans won’t do.
Also, I suggest you stay away from wrongontheissues.org if you want to be informed correctly in the future. You weren’t informed on this one.
Baklava,
Just not sure what your point is in denying what the president said. I saw him say it and I read it in the newspaper and I gave you the info you wanted. You’re starting to become a little incoherent so its best to move on to something else.
Baklava,
Just checked out the whitehouse.gov site that you referred to. Under new/releases there is a speech given by the President on his temporary worker reform plan. The article is entitled “President Bush Proposes New Temporary Worker Program”. In it he mentions jobs that Americans are not filling on several occasions. Have a good weekend and thanks for making me work a little bit!
{Deep breath} Ok, now that all that is settled, what about the illegal aliens that need to be sent home BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS?
Simple matter. Law breakers go home. Now.
RedBeard,
You can’t be serious…do you know how many there are…are you and yours ready to fill all the jobs they’re doing…NOW? Do you have any idea as to how much they’re the backbone of agricultural and service industries?
I’m not by any means suggesting that migrants not be allowed in, only that they be required to enter and reside legally. I’m really not following the arguments that criminals, and that’s what illegal aliens are, should be allowed to live in this country as if nothing is wrong.
All the migrant workers we need can be admitted legally, if only the borders were controlled. And controlling the borders is the whole point of this discussion.
Pres took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. That includes the laws. To not enforce the immigration laws, or any other law….well you get the point.
There is a reason why they are called illegal immigrants. They should be sent back and the border should be controlled to the highest standard.
Why is it so wrong to uphold the law?
Chris and RedBeard,
You are in the realm of unreality. Do you realize how many are here now? Do you realize the economic calamity that would take place if they were all expelled now? Are you prepared to pay for the incredible numbers of new police and FBI agents who would need to be hired and trained to make them all leave now? Not sure how much you’ve followed this issue over the last 2 decades or what states you live in but you’re seriously out of touch. And remember, the #1 issue with regards to the border now is to seal it to prevent terrorists from coming over.
Yes, indeed, the point is to get control of the borders as fast as possible.
But after that, what about the lawbreakers who are already here? Do we give them all blanket amnesty, and by doing so reward them for breaking the law? Do we continue to whistle and look the other way, hoping that by ignoring the illegal activity that no one will notice?
La Shawn and others:
Reading this latest blog and these posts confuse me. Maybe someone can help me understand. Why is Conservativism synonymous with morals and Christianity? People who refer to an infant–a human being–as a “welfare sucker” give the the rest of the Reps bad names.
Wanting tougher border control is okay. Speaking in venemous disregard for human life (even if it is Mexican) is not good.
Would we be better Christians if we referred to those welfare kids as “minor persons who use up U.S. taxpayers’ money due to the criminal acts of their illegal alien parents?”
Does anyone still believe national security is a passionate issue for Bus? Newsflash. The election is over. Bush is spending his political capital trying to con the American people into supporting his attempt to hijack Soc Sec.
Corporate America benefits mightily from the free flow of cheap unskilled labor thru our southern border, Bush has shown no willingness to take on Wall Street on this issue.
The Mexican people are here to work, and most do and try hard to get work when they are not. I believe welfare costs are well managed and low compared to ’special’ bilingual education, medical, and other social support costs due to the increased ’social’ problems that exist in poor environments, ie, police calls, legal/court, and detention(prison) costs.
The Mexican people are good hard working people with poor leaders in their own country. However, we can no longer afford the cost or security risks associated with their ‘assisted’ export to America.
Some good news from the business(source) of the problem. Wal-Mart has just been fined 11 Million for outsourcing their janitorial service to a private contractor that was hiring illegal aliens, in order to reduce their employee costs. Their private contractor was fined 4 Million.
This business fine should act as a very good deterrent for other businesses doing the same. That is, hiring illegal aliens indirectly by outsourcing jobs to ‘private’ contractors, to try to avoid responsibility.
Part 4 in the series
Sorry, Renee! The link was messing up the format. I don’t know why this happens with some links and not others. – Admin
Jim R,
Good post…the companies that hire “illegals” are themselves “illegals.” And that is a separate issue. For now, national security trumps all.
President Bush wants to do what President Reagan did…recognize all the illegals in the country and give them amnesty. He just won’t use the “A” word.
Just read an article in the San Diego Union-Tribune, which indicates that the terrorist threat from Canada is greater than the one from Mexico. But we see the same canard being used over and over regarding both borders; that sealing the borders will devastate trade. But it is the UNPROTECTED areas of the borders which need to be sealed, not the legitimate border crossings, which are relatively few and far between. I know of and know “refugees” from a certain African Muslim country who are presenting themselves at Tijuana for asylum in the U.S. If they’re able to get there so easily, what’s to keep the smart terrorists from easing their way east a bit and crossing over under the cover of darkness? By the way, I mentioned this and another alarming incident regarding an individual from this particular country to the FBI in the year after 9-11. They sounded uninterested on the phone and never got back to me for more details. We are REALLY at risk.
Stan-
There is a flip side in costs that are going to be paid for allowing them to remain in education, medical, public safety and services. Either way, it will cost a lot of money. If it costs a lot up front but saves us more money in the long run, is it worth it? I don’t see the costs curbing just by issuing an amnesty and then toughening the borders.
Perhaps a combination of amnesty through issuing worker permits and then removing those that do not comply? It is a very thorny issue because a lot of people have vested interests in how this turns out, from companies who want cheaper sources of labor to those who see the drain that illegals place on our social services. However, presently, the President is not upholding his duties to us by simply standing pat and allowing more and more to cross the border.
This situation is almost out of control, and as I alluded to way earlier, it will take a bomb or other terrorist action to make the politicians make the tough choices. It is a national security issue in addition to socially, and even more so since 9/11.
Because removing the illegal aliens costs a lot of money, should we make exceptions to the law? Does that speak to our willingness to get by on the cheap as a society? I think it does. I see that currently here in my state of Texas as well as in Arizona as the state legislators continue to try and educate students on the cheap, as well as in other services. Are we willing to pay the continued costs for illegal immigrants? Amnesty will only encourage more to cross the border, as they will figure that since Reagan and Bush did it, eventually future Presidents will too grant amnesty. 15-20 years from now, we will likely be facing the same problem yet again, if the Bush administration takes the same course of action as Reagan did years ago.
When Bush was about to go after Saddam, didn’t he say something to the effect that he would never ask another country’s permission to defend America? He doesn’t seem too willing to defend us from this invasion without Fox’s permission..
Hey, look you guys, when y’all get all bogged down into trying to refute the claims about “just seeking a better life,” and, “jobs that Americans won’t do,” you are playing right into their hands! Don’t even go there with them! They already know it’s not true, they’re just baiting you. You already have the ACE OF SPADES in your hands, but no one ever uses it! It is this:
It doesn’t matter if their claim is true or not!
BECAUSE:
There is NOTHING, ANYWHERE, in USC, Title 8 Sections 1324 and 1325, that says ANYTHING about “…unless the alien is just seeking a better life,” or, “…unless the alien is coming to do a job that an American won’t!”
1324 – Bringing in and Harboring Certain Aliens
1325 – Improper Entry by Alien
You guys already have the most powerful weapon there is. You have the law, right there in black and white. They don’t have the law, or anything else on their side, so they have to resort to the old trick of building a house of cards with their rhetoric and name calling, like racist. When they start with all that bull just whack ‘em with 1324 and 1325, and their house will come crashing down – it cannot stand against the law!
Oh and by the way – that “Anchor Baby” law – is also a fabrication! And that is also something that needs to be set right. I don’t remember the exact wording of the law, but the important part of it to look at is the part about the mother having to be in her LEGAL JURISDICTION at the time she gives birth!! If she is not here legally, then her legal jurisdiction is Mexico, or whatever! This law got twisted into its present day meaning somehow a while back, I think by some activist judge, and it just kind of kept being applied in that way. But it was NEVER intended to be interpreted the way it is now. There was never an anchor baby law.
Any attorneys out there?
When a public official gives an illegal order to a police officer to wilfully violate the law by refusing to enforce a valid federal law, what is the name of the crime the public official has committed? I am thinking it might be obstruction of justice, but I’m not sure. And what is the article or section number? Same goes for a law enforcement official who voluntarily refuses to uphold a valid federal law.
Anyway, would there be any way to bring criminal charges against any of these activist politicians and law enforcemet officials who steadfastly refuse to uphold 1324 – Bring in and Harbor Certain Aliens, and 1325 – Improper Entry by Alien? I mean, if we could get JUST ONE DA in ONE JURISDICTION in the country to take ONE case! Or if not, is there any way to start hauling some of these obstructionist public officials into civil court? If we could get just ONE of them! It ought to be an open and shut case! And it might get the ball rolling. Or a class action maybe?
The enforcement of a valid law is NOT optional – and a whole bunch of people need to start getting slapped with criminal charges, from Bush to city council people. Not to mention the fact that these public officials are also in violation of the Aid and Abet Laws! These people are openly committing felonies!! Where are our District Attorneys??!!
NY Times link to the Wal-Mart illegal alien hiring fine:
nytimes.com/2005/03/19/business/19walmart.html?th
Chris,
I don’t disagree with you. Just saying that the logistics of removing illegals combined with the pressure from the vested interests you mentioned make sure it will never happen. The point remains, the border must be sealed now and probably forever with crossings confined only to the border stations. Removing those who are here just isn’t going to happen but severely restricting future illegal crossings can and must for the sake of national security if for nothing else.
There are said to be nearly 9 million illegals in the country now. There are around 2 million in California at any given time. It would require a police state of gargantuan proportions to even make a dent and each one would be challenged by an ACLU lawyer. The nation would come to a grinding halt.
But even with sealed borders (please make it so), the question remains. What WILL we do with the criminals who are already here?
RedBeard,
The first step would be to deport the “illegals” who are in custody. The next would be to reimburse the states for the cost of holding and trying them. That should be done before we do anything about “illegals” who are actually working.
Stan-
That’s a good starting point. We must spend a little up front to get the ball rolling. Why can’t our lawmakers discuss and come to good conclusions? Sorry, stupid question.
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