A student went on a shooting spree Monday afternoon in a Northern Minnesota high school, allegedly killing nine people and wounding as many as 15 others before turning the gun on himself, officials said.
The shootings, the nation’s worst since the 1999 Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colo., occurred at the Red Lake High School in Red Lake, Minn., approximately 240 miles north of Minneapolis.
A preliminary investigation indicated the suspect apparently first shot his grandparents, then went to the school where he allegedly shot a security guard, exchanged fire with police officers and opened fire on other students before killing himself.
The suspect is identified as 17-year-old Jeffrey Weise, a junior at the school. The Associated Press reported Weise may have posted messages last year on a neo-Nazi Web site calling himself “Angel of Death” and expressing admiration for Adolf Hitler. (Source)
I don’t have anything particularly enlightening or comforting to say at the moment. If you do, I’ll link.
More from MSNBC.
Update: I’m watching Connected Coast to Coast, and they’re on the “hate on the Internet” meme. The implication is that because this young psychotic killer frequented neo-Nazi web sites, he was driven to kill. These “haters” incited the kid to shoot up his grandfather, his school and himself. Great. They say these sites seek out disturbed youth like the dead killer while providing no evidence. Not even the URL of the kind of site they’re talking about.
You know what “hate speech” is? Whatever the other guy says that you don’t like.
I hate that.
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Arizona’s Senator Kyl offered a great response to Mexico’s President Fox:
“President Fox does not appear to grasp the high level of frustration over illegal immigration in states like Arizona, and his pre-emptive threats to file lawsuits on behalf of those crossing the border unlawfully is hardly helpful, since it presumes that illegal aliens have more of a right to break American law than American citizens have to peacefully assist authorities in enforcing it.”
Oh Lordy.
What were these National Socialist web sites? Democratic Underground? Honestly as a father of 2 daughters (age 5 and
I don’t know how a child of his age is 1) able to spend so much time finding and then immersing themselves in hateful sites or 2) find that their message resonates in any way as a child in Minnesota.
La Shawn:
I believe it is a “stretch” to say that, perhaps, the Nazi web sites and Weise’s behavior were not connected. This site has pretty “heavy” praise of Hitler and Nazis.
Most likely the Neo Nazi web sites did not “force Weise to kill, but a boy with a killer instinct would likely be attracted to such sites.
Again, here is a boy without parents – something you have a lot of in DC – with similar results. That’s more of a problem than the Nazi web sites.
These web contacts may be “substitute parents” for this disturbed boy – somewhat like the gang members in DC and elsewhere are the “substitute family” for parentless children.
Different place, same result.
According to this news site (http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=19581) and others the young man frequented Nazi.org, which is clearly a hate site. Judge for yourself, but I think it is clearly hate speech of the worse kind:
http://www.nazi.org/library/faq/
Joshua, give me an example from the site of what you consider “hate speech.”
La Shawn,
In your question to Joshua, are you inquiring about “hate speech” on the http://www.phxnews.com site or the http://www.nazi.org site?
The Nazi.org site.
Baklava,
Then you are exceptionally naive. Things aren’t the same as when you and I grew up.
“We do however support the right of nations, or local groups, to maintain racial standards for areas under their jurisdiction. Our membership and events are open to people of all races, ages, genders, sexual preferences, ethnicities, and origins, although we do actively discriminate against those so foolish to admit to believership in Judaism or Christianity” –from Nazi.org
During my visit, I did notice a strong underpinning of evolutionary theory as support of their beliefs, particularly as it pertains to racial hypotheses (a lesson for theistic evolutionists, perhaps?).
The strong survive (racially and personally) and the weak go to the wall. Meanwhile, in “respectable” American society, A disabled woman is being starved and dehydrated to death; and a 17 year-old boy goes on a murder spree. The Roman Pontiff has spoken of a ever pervasive “Culture of Death”, and in my mind these two events are inextricable since they are both, at the root, of what the Pope wrote about.
La Shawn,
Under “Platform”, they want to remove all non-Germanic folks to their ancestoral homelands, Asians to Asia, African-Americans to Africa…I’m safe because I come from superior German stock but you…
I think you should check out the whole site and clarify this issue with your readers. Nazis by definition are “hate”.
This boy was an Indian on an Indian Reservation. There have so many problems on the reservations, including high rates of suicide, for more years than we can count that its best for us to leave it as an enormous tragedy.
California Yankee,
Sen. Kyl’s problem isn’t with Fox…that’s a smokescreen. His problem is with his Pres. He and McCain need to put public, passionate heat on the President, who’s in charge of providing for the common defence. Easy to blame Fox and the illegals. Takes courage to take on the American employers and the President. Kyl and McCain don’t have it and now I’m wondering if the President does. He is the one person in this world who has the responsibility and authority and capability to deal with this. Its on him and him alone.
Send me to Africa??? That’s not racist. That’s crazy! No way in…They’ll have to kill me and send the corpse.
Woah, you don’t think what these people believe in is hate? They’re all about racial purity. They think black people are inferior and that zionists control the airwaves. Are you going to start defending the KKK next? Jesus.
Don’t take our Saviour’s name in vain.
California Yankee!? Where’d you get that nombre?
– Mark Slater, Colorado Confederate
Actually, I’m from Indiana. Think what you like. And why are you asking me where I got my name? You are a strange person. And what’s with the big title at the end of your post? Someone clearly has issues…
I grew up an hour from Red Lake and have a few thoughts about the closed reservation and the resulting media coverage on my blog. You can find it at http://www.berbs.us/archives/000085.html. The reservation is a sovereign nation, and is subject only to the tribal council and federal legislation specifically dealing with Red Lake. Because of this, they are being very effective in controlling media coverage in Red Lake.
Oh, I see, you think I’m someone else. Okay. You’re still strange though.
While others have pointed out examples of hate speech, here are just a few others which I hope any decent person would condem:
What is your opinion of ZOG and the Jewish conspiracy?
Jews are a fanatical religious-ethnic group with beliefs that translate to poor values in Indo-European societies. The “conspiracy” is money; with television networks, magazines, newspapers, books, and learning for sale, our beliefs are easily corrupted by wily and disingenuous outsiders.
Why do you hate Jews?
We want Judaism outside of our lands, and Jews – like any other foreign race – sent back to their home continent. We don’t “hate” Jews per se, but we are unyielding about the need to remove them from Indo-European countries.
This is hate speech pure and simple
Regardless, they are free to espouse their views, and I support their right to do so. Blaming the actions of a murderous kid on these people is a bit ludicrious. And disingenuous. His parents are more to blame than any group.
I don’t support free speech for Nazis. And blaming this on his parents is cold-hearted and short-sighted. Aren’t they both dead? They’re saying he was the victim of teasing…so was I and it hurts so bad. Which victim of extreme teasing and bullying hasn’t thought about retaliating? His situation is very complex and deserves a little more patience and understanding, especially regarding life on a reservation.
On the other side, I’m listening to Larry King interview Rick Warren, the Purpose Driven Life. Warren seems to be overjoyed that Nichols will now be able to discover God’s purpose for his life even though he killed some people. What a crock!!
Dead or alive they’re going to send you back in a ship packed like sardines, like they’re ancestors did. They also want to establish zones for homosexuals and other deviants to live…Germanic-rooted homosexuals and deviants I suspect because you folks and Asians and Mexicans will be long gone. Maybe Indian homosexuals…they don’t seem to mention Indians. They’re appealing to every bitter, non-achievin’, mouth-breathin’ white guy who ever had a Bud for breakfast.
Sorry…their ancestors, not they’re ancestors.
Nazis aren’t the reason this kid pulled the trigger. His parents aren’t the reason. He alone is responsible for the choice he made. Strong emotions are relevant, but the actual decision was not made by the past or by feelings or by Nazis. It was made by him, in full knowledge of what he was doing, even in full ENJOYMENT of it. Hate is a condition of the spirit, not a DECISION of the mind. And it is not the hate that we are concerned with; it is the decision he made, and the unjust suffering that decision caused.
At times in my life I have been moved to harm or kill someone. Lately, it’s been Michael Schiavo I’ve wanted to kill (and tomorrow I will still want to do that). But, amazingly, I’ve never actually killed anyone at all! The distance between strong feelings and a conscious decision is greater than some would have us believe. This kid planned all this. He was not overcome and driven insane by those strong feelings. Motivated, sure… but not unhinged. He wasn’t salivating and babbling and stumbling– he was happy and smiling and aiming and firing. He knew and enjoyed what he was doing.
At the core, we are what we do. Nobody can spend his life without ever doing good and then protest “but I’m a good man!” The lack of evidence will disprove his assertion. Murderers are defined by murder, not by schoolboy ridicule or parental abuse or strong emotions or Nazi websites.
In 1991 my wife Amy was carjacked and raped and murdered; the killer was a married man with kids who had a restaurant job. He had apparently decided during the night that the world was unfair and somebody was going to have to pay… he had a few convictions, purse snatching and so forth, but this decision he made to rape and kill Amy was conscious and calculating and careful. Far from being out of his mind, he was probably operating at peak efficiency when he did it.
Tough life? Maybe. Bad influences? Probably. But someone else to blame for what he did?
NO WAY.
La Shawn, please stay. If someone needs to go to Africa, “I’ve Got A Little List.” You ain’t on it.
Apparently the kid was questioned a year ago about a threat to shoot ‘em up to celebrate Hitler’s birthday, but no action was taken.
He blew through a metal detector and shot an unarmed guard. Why was the guard unarmed?
Walter, please check your e-mail. – Admin
I see many more questions now than I do answers. Know this much, Jeffrey Weise was a loser. Why? Weise bought into the concept of hate. You are not going to win at life by going through life being mad.
As for the Nazi website, I don’t see the website as a causative factor. Weise was attracted to the website because he was a hate filled loser. Personally I think the webside serves a useful funtion, it gives insight into who some of the losers are.
Depressing is the fact Weise attracked the attention of the authorities but they seemed impotent to stop him. Like Columbine, we can indentify our ticking time bombs. We just can’t defuse them.
I looked at the Nazi.org site.
Just wondering, if they want to send all people back to the land of their origins does that mean they all have to go back to Europe?
And what about us poor misbegotten people of mixed ancestory? Does the American Indian 1/8th of me get to stay here while the other parts get shipped back?
I agree with La Shawn, these people should be allowed to speak. But before they kill La Shawn and ship back her dead body they’ll have to get over my dead body first.
Yikes! Show a little sympathy for this kid. Reservations are a different breed of cat. His dad committed suicide and his mom was in Mpls because of brain damage from an auto accident. And his grandpa was living with a lady much younger than him. Read a little more about this and think a little more.
Regarding the Nazi website..The world spent a lot of blood and tears to remove this scourge from the face of the earth and you want to give them freedom of speech? This kid was given aid and comfort by them. You’re all so cold-hearted. This is what gives “conservatives” a bad name and why some have tried to attach the appellation “compassionate” to it.
There is blame to be placed for this kid going wrong, but it is not the website. It may have added to the hate he already felt, but that machination already existed. The kid knew the difference between right from wrong. He continually chose to ignore doing the right thing. The Nazi website was simply a means for this kid to justify the already existing evil and contempt for doing what is right that he held.
The Nazi ideology is rampantly evil, however its right to exist and for people to speak it must not be infringed. It would set a precedent to be taken advantage of so that more of our rights can be eroded. The only way for the Nazi ideology to be truly marginalized is for there to be an open thread of discussion so people can see how hollow, empty and ridiculous it truly is.
Chris,
I have to disagree and strongly. This kid was an orphan…haven’t you taught boys without dads and seen the difference it can make? He was concerned about race mixing on the reservation and the effect that “black” music was having on Indian kids. I see the same problem with that music and the effects its having on the Cambodian children of refugees. The government of Cambodia absolutely forbids the import or playing of American music for this very reason and I’m so happy it does. Go easy on this one…you’re displaying an unsympathetic heart and a lack of understanding as to the effect the cultural environment can have on a lost and lonely boy.
And I still can’t believe some think that Nazis should have free speech. There are far more who will be sympathetic to their views than those who will learn how bad it is. Do you think that this worked in Germany? For all the intellectuals who thought Hitler was a buffoon, there were millions who had primal instincts that he touched. Your premise is wrong.
I’ve taught and still do, many young men who grow up without fathers. My whole premise is that while much about his circumstances causes concern, are we daring to absolve him from knowing right from wrong?
I have no respect, and much disdain for the Nazi groups and what they represent. However, because I value my ability to speak freely so much, I do not want any precedent set that would eventually allow a government authority to curtail my rights. They’ve already started it on college campuses, where you can speak freely, as long as it doesn’t offend anyone(?). I do not trust government enough to believe that they would only stop in one single circumstance. I appreciate your point of view. I happen to think that everyone’s right to free speech is equally as important.
Chris,
I assumed that you had taught kids like this and no, I’m not absolving him but he had a lot on his plate according to our newspaper today. I’m just calling for compassion and understanding. The Red Lake tribe and his parents failed him in a big way.
I will never defend the Nazis’ rights to free speech. I would like to see all of them drawn and quartered in the public square.
Thanks for the discussions, Chris. I enjoy them and learn from them.
Stan-
To quote our VP, “big time” (re: failure). I’ve had 2 of my students commit suicide since I’ve started teaching and wondered sometimes if I’d failed too. I just have distaste for those who say that he has no sense of right and wrong because of the website. It reeks of moral relativism.
I’d like to see them Nazis drawn and quartered too, but my distrust of our government when it comes to free speech keeps me from doing it. I’m sure those Nazis want to do the same to me since I married a Latina!!!
I’m sure you’re on their hit list…that’s why I don’t post my full name…no, wait….I’m safe…I’m from 100% German stock and my wife’ s from German and Norwegian. Oh, the joys of being Northern European white!
Chris,
My apologies if I was too flip…I regret the suicides of your students and I can only begin to know the pain that you also might have gone through.
I don’t mind flip comments. They often add to the humor of commenting here. Real discussion means that everyone gets to say what they want. I’ve taken enough abuse from parents while coaching basketball to let much else bother me.
Just wait kennedy,gore,clinton Rosie O,Donell and all the gun control freaks will be saying this would have never happened if clintons gun ban was atill in force and bush and the NRA is to blame instead of what realy happened
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