Many people have e-mailed, wondering if I plan to comment on the Pope’s death. I pray for the loved ones of people who die, and the Pope’s loved ones are included. While I am not up to theological discussions about the matter just yet, I will say, preliminarily, that if the Pope believed Christ died for his sins, and that we are saved through faith alone in Christ alone by his grace alone, the Pope, like anyone else who believes these things, will be spared from God’s righteous and just punishment.
At some point I will address the theological points directly, but in the meantime, I’ll refer you to the writings of Dr. James White, a Reformed Baptist and Christian apologist. He speaks for me and many other Reformed Christians by declaring God’s word:
I encourage you to listen to this talk he gave about the Pope’s death and the need for evangelical Christians to be bold and share the truth in love. His talk probably will not be popular with Catholic readers, but I think you should listen nonetheless. Albert Mohler also has an interesting post on this subject.
One of the things I have to deal with in hosting a public web site is that there are no shortage of opinions from readers. I will open comments on this thread, but I think it’s only fair to tell you I have lost patience with the personal attacks. I now have ZERO tolerance for it. If you wish to address me directly in comments rather than via e-mail (which is preferable), I implore you to tread lightly.
I feel like a shrew having to give such warnings, but some of you don’t seem to understand the way I do things around here. I will not be bullied or “told off” on my own blog. There are plenty of bloggers out there who spend their time attacking and “refuting” me. To keep company with them, visit Technorati, and do a search for my blog address. If they’ve ranted recently, you will find them. If you want to refute my positions or arguments or assertions in a reasoned manner, you may do so here.
Now, I hope you can have a civilized discussion.
Addendum: Part of my reluctance in writing about these issues is that it invites all sorts of readers and commenters, some who want to know the truth, others who simply want to dispute back and forth. Responses to posts like this are generally frustrating because people seem to have no interest in finding the truth and/or they are not familiar with the Bible. (That is frustrating. Perhaps I should restrict commenting to people who’ve not only read but studied the whole Bible at least once.) As a consequence, I’m compelled to try to respond to every single commenter and every single assertion. But rather than doing that, I will direct you to sites that you may visit for clarification or explanation of what I’ve written in the post and in the comment section. Unfortunately, I know many of you will not visit these sites, are not interested in visiting these sites and will continue to “refute” my assertions.
For a primer on the Gospel of Jesus Christ see this link. Also see 40 Objections. In fact, the whole site is a great resource.
What is Reformed Theology?
Update (7:26 p.m.): I’m closing this post for tonight. I fear that the errors I’ve read so far will continue, and I don’t have time to address all of them tonight. I will enable commenting on this post in the morning. In the meantime, you may e-mail your responses to me. I will seriously considering posting a few tomorrow.
As a result of this post and links included, one reader has already declared herself a “former reader.” So be it.
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From what I understand and know about the recent Pope, it would seem that he truly did know Jesus as Lord and Savior. Yes I have some problems with some RC doctrine, but on the essentials their is agreement and certainly the Pope was in agreement with those essentials of our faith!
But yes……whether you are the Pope or a illiterate Bolivian Peasant, we can only enter into by the Narrow road………that is Calvary!
Thanks
Your sweat, your tears, your blog. Simple as that. If people feel that because you don’t agree with their opinions they must attack you on YOUR TURF, then they are very small-minded people indeed. Your blog for me is a source of study and inspiration from your entrys to the comments, to the links you provide.
Continue to do what you do so very well.
Prayers abound..
This is a bit off topic, but your mention of the works of Dr. James White reminded me of this question:
I’m of the Arminian/Wesleyan persuasion, and I take it that your outlook is Calvinist. I’ve noticed that Calvinist bloggers tend to be rather passionate about self-identifying as such — what with the ‘League of Reformed Bloggers’ and such. Although I’m Arminian, but I’m more likely to identify as a Christian or an evangelical than to get into hair-splitting details such as Arminianism/Calvinism. There is no League of Arminian Bloggers, and I’m unlikely to be interested in one.
So, LaShawn, as a person of Calvinist perspective, perhaps you would tell me why there is a such a strong trend to self-identify among Calvinists?
Hoping to accurately portray my Catholic education on Salvation, faith and works are only a part of salvation. Salvation is possible only through the Grace of God. By His love for us are we saved; no amount of good works or proclamations of faith will “earn” salvation. That’s what we’re taught. There are many theological disagreements on many other issues, but on this, I think (I hope) all Christian denominations agree.
Unfortunately, many Protestant denominations deride the Catholic church for emphasis on “works” and many Catholics deride Protestants on their emphasis on faith. We believe that it’s part-n-parcel of the same package.
I have to admit that even though I’m 37, I’m old-fashioned in my Catholicism. I agree with all the things JPII taught and none of them are easy lessons. What I am disappointed in, though, is the behavior of a majority of US bishops and the way the Vatican dismissed “THE SCANDAL.” IMO, the majority of bishops in the US have done more to damage my faith than any Protestant, secular, or other type of disagreement in theology.
That said, US Catholics have to realize that even though we number about 65 million, we comprise less than 6% of Catholics worldwide. I’m assuming of course, but I really doubt that the divisions that exist in the US church exist to the level they do elsewhere.
I really feel the need to commend you LaShawn. Rather than simply assuming JPII’s beliefs and criticizing them, I really appreciate your honesty in admitting you don’t know. At times, I feel pretty beaten up by all the anti-Catholic bashing we receive (on many subjects) because of ignorance or prejudice. It’s nice to read something objective. (I hope that came out right, I mean this as a compliment!)
I think it’s smart not to engage in a theological discussion so soon after the Pope’s death. There are a million other debates on a million other blogs dealing with this issue — it was kind of refreshing coming to this one to find rest from that. I don’t believe he was left with family — I believe his brother was the last to pass away leaving only him. But just the same I would pray for the people of Rome/Vatican City. One man drew a nice parallel when asked what it was like to live in the same city as the Pope. He said it was like being home and sick and having your mother and father there to take care of you every day. Many stood outside his door for hours upon hours, and I can only imagine the level of grief they are going through.
Cheers.
David - I actually do have an opinion about the Pope’s beliefs, as he is head of the Roman Catholic church. I’m reserving my comments until later. On the rare occasions I have blogged about Catholicism, I was called “anti-Catholic” for holding a different view. It was never nor will it ever be my intent to bash anyone, but the truth divides.
John - I can’t speak for all Calvinists, but I joined the blog rings for the exposure. I want to know who other Reformed bloggers are, and vice versa. I will blog much more about this later, as I have in the past (check the Faith category). To me, the label “Cavinist” is simply another way of saying “biblical.” Many dispute this, of course, but they seldom do so through Scripture. I’ve had to put up with all manner of philosophical arguments in lieu of biblical ones.
Evangelical Christians are not the only ones charged with the duty to “be bold and share the truth in love.” We Catholics — indeed, all Christians — have the same duty.
Accordingly, I would gently propose that Dr. James White and Dr. Albert Mohler are not the most authoritative commentators on matters Catholic.
Neither of those honorable men wasted any time alluding to what by Reformation lights are Rome’s “doctrinal errors.” This seems to me uncharitable, not least because there is considerable scriptural warrant for the Catholic idea that scripture and sacred tradition, both parts of a single “deposit of faith” in Jesus Christ, cannot be separated.
Let me say without reservation that John Paul II lived and preached the gospel. That’s reason enough to thank God for his example.
My position comes from Scripture, not from the minds of White or Mohler. The word of God is the authority on these matters, and I believe that James White indeed declares the word of God. Unlike too many other professing Christians, I check what people say against what Scripture says. I read the Bible for myself to determine whether someone speaking is doing so in truth or error. I’m not as familiar with Mohler, so I’ll reserve judgment.
I have done some study on what Rome believes, so I’m not relying on what anyone else says about Catholicism. When I blog in detail later, from Scripture, about this topic, I hope that you return and respond to me likewise, through Scripture. For instance, I assume you have a biblical reference for the assertion “scripture and sacred tradition cannot be separated.” I look forward to discussing it with you.
Not to open a big can of worms, but. . . . I’m wondering how one can support Israel and Judaism for their right to exist as such, when according to your rubric, Jews will not be spared from “G-d’s righteous and just punishment.” I realize that in the whole end of days scenario some fraction of the Jews are supposed to convert, etc, etc but it seems a bit dubious to say that Israel and Jews have your support, but only if they fall into some predescribed role. If I am putting words into your mouth, please feel free to refute this.
“faith alone in Christ alone by his grace alone are what saves”
I doubt he’d put it in these simple terms, and I’m vaguely under the impression that what you mean (the “sola fides”) is directly contradicted by James 2, which is why we get the typically Catholic expression about “faith and good works”.
I think the original confusion here is from Romans 3 that the referenced ‘works’ referred to those of Jewish ‘works of law’, which to protestants, I think, meant not just works of the Jewish law, but also the various workings (sometimes shenanigans, against which Luther correctly railed) under Canon law - that without faith such works are empty (and just so - but this does not make the reflexive, sola fides, the _only_ necessary thing).
The redemption of our souls (what you call being ’saved’) was enacted through the death and resurrection of Jesus the Son of God (by dying He destroyed our death, by rising He restored our life).
Add to that His adoption of us into the Kingdom (as expressed by the Our Father) - which needed to be done through Christ alone who was both God and Man - and further, through the outpouring of the gift (grace) of the Holy Spirit, sent by God the Father through Jesus, to come over us, as expressed (inter alia) by Baptism and Confirmation.
Finally, I believe, when we are called, we have to say, with Mary (and the Apostles, etc), ‘yes, Lord’ (give our assent) to the grace of God before the act of salvation is complete (alternately, we have to not say ‘no’ - to not sin/turn away - this is an interpretation which allows some of the unbaptised to also share in the Kingdom - I believe a faithful Catholic can have hope in this, but it’s by no means a sure thing): this is expressed through Confirmation, and through the Last Supper, which we act weekly, cocommitant with the miraculous conversion of bread and wine into Body and Blood - a sacrament given by Jesus with the command that we are to do this in memory of Him. By accepting Christ in this supper, after having been cleansed through absolution (as John 20:23), this is our extrinsic ‘yes, Lord’ - the Sacrament with which we seal the sign (spes) and the matter (res). (I think an important difference between Catholic and many Protestant sects, for all their strident biblical literacy, is that they seem to think Jesus was being less than serious when he said “This is My body” and “Do this in memory of Me”. He wasn’t - he might very well have said ‘This represents My Body’ or ‘This is like my Body’ - but he didn’t. I’ve always found that contradiction odd. And that ‘Do this’ command seems pretty much a ‘good work’, an action, among many actions He calls us to, doesn’t it? After all, He could have said ‘believe in me and lie around doing nothing and you’ll be saved’ - but he didn’t, and didn’t intend to, I think - - if you believe in Him, He sends you out, because that’s what He does).
If by faith you mean that faithful assent or acceptance by the soul of the grace(s) of God already given, then there is something there: that might be necessary and sufficient, but not necessarily ’sola’: it would seem a pretty meagre Church that accepts only one gift when one has been given so many, and commits only one act when they have been called to do so much. Hence - “faith alone” is not necessarily the appropriate term, I think.
Every day I write on this blog, the “can of worms” is opened. There isn’t much anyone can ask me that hasn’t been addressed before. Bible-believing Christians support Israel because God still has plans to restore Israel. As God’s chosen nation, Israel rebelled. The Old Testament is about Israel’s fall and redemptive restoration, over and over again. God sets aside a people for himself, and those people rebel. God forgives those people, and they eventually rebel again, incurring God’s wrath.
But just as before, despite Israel’s rebellion, that nation will be restored to God. Through Christ Jesus. I believe that Israel will once again serve as a light in sharing Christ with the world.
I wondered if you would go that route.
We really can’t say anything much about JPII’s soul, though, can we? We can lay out a formula for salvation–as La Shawn has done here–but this just invites debate on the accuracy of the formula. And hard feelings, too, since I can assure you John Paul does not subscribe to the Protestant doctrine of sola fide, and certainly not to its self-contradictory corallary that belief in this doctrine is ALSO necessary for salvation. (Which as she has laid it out is actually a faith not in God, but in faith itself–you must not only have faith, but must also have faith in the sufficiency of faith, which is just another way of saying that faith is sufficient for everybody except Catholics who, by virtue of their adherence to some other doctrine of salvation, cannot be saved.)
World’s worst analogy. I love pickled eggs. I like the good sour ones that make your face implode. My wife hates them with a passion. Yet, she loves me so much and respects my individual taste where she accepts that fact and we live in relative harmony ~ of course, too many eggs and I’m on the couch!
What I’m hoping to say is this. People have varying opinions on a plethora of issues, religion, politics, sports, etc. If somebody I know respects my views and gives a good, reasonable argument for theirs, I think we can all co-exist and learn from each other. It’s simply when we let bigotry and prejudice take over we end up with hate.
The best example of a civilized disagreement I’ve ever seen was on Joe Carter’s blog discussing Mary. I thought that was amazing. Not only did I see an educated, civil opinion by protestants on Mary, I could understand why they thought that way. I still feel strongly the way I do and disagree with the protestant viewpoint, but at least I know where they’re coming from and can respect that position a lot better now than I could before.
To be honest, LaShawn, I haven’t read any of your post regarding Catholicism. Judging by the language you use here on your blog, I really have a hard time believing you’d qualify as a Catholic-hater.
My only concern regarding Biblical references is that they are interpreted so broadly in the different denominations. People end up showing off their knowledge of the Bible. For every, “Salvation by Faith Alone” there’s “Faith without works is dead.” (James 2:20 I think).
(My personal viewpoint is that a true Christian strives to be Christ-Like, using Jesus as the example on how to be Christian. By following that example, how can a true Christian not believe in good works? Simply by treating each person with love and charity, and by following the 10 Commandments, any Christian is performing good works in conjunction with their faith.)
The power of JPII was not only his faith, strength of character, or his communication skills, it was his ability to stress the commonality of the different faiths. We’re all brothers and sisters in Christ. I liken it to we’re all on the same tree, just different branches.
But David, if Christians cannot rely on Scripture and properly declare the word of God, then there is no foundation upon which to believe the claims of Christ! I believe the truth is knowable and discernable through the word of God. People can read into the text whatever they want, but the text does speak for itself. - Admin
La Shawn:
I was unable to access Dr. White’s audio on his web site.
There was some text, and reference to audio for sale, but nothing else came up.
Some of his text is quite vague about the Pope - stating (without details) “that reality of the gospel of Jesus Christ and how Rome does not possess that gospel (but instead dogmatically denies it)?”
This is a pretty strong statement from anyone - I can’t wait to see a summary of his work, but in the meantime I will spend my time on something different. One thing Dr. White lacks is humility.
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