Cobra-”First, by the facts…The continent of Africa has over 682,000,000 inhabitants. How exactly did you calculate the equation that the “average African suffered from a lack of transparency and rule of law?” Did you take surveys and polls?”

2) The total estimated population of independent African countries is 885,972,849 (CIA FactBook)

3a) The total population of Africans living in a FREE independent country ranked higher/better than average is 79,789,762
when measuring;
–Political Freedom Classification is 2
–Civil Rights Classification is 2 – 3
–Risk of Coup is LOW to MEDIUM
–Risk of Conflict is VERY LOW to HIGH
These countries are Botswana, Cape Verde, Ghana, Mauritius, Senegal & South Africa.

3b) The total population of Africans living in a PARTLY FREE independent country ranked on average is 493,728,394
when measuring;
–Political Freedom Classification is 3 – 6
–Civil Rights Classification is 3 – 5
–Risk of Coup is VERY LOW to HIGH
–Risk of Conflict is LOW to HIGH, with some experiencing Guerilla conflict.
These countries are Algeria, Benin, Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, Comoros, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Gabon, Gambia, Guinea Bissau, Kenya, Lesotho, Madagascar, Malawi, Mali, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Niger, Nigeria, Republic of Congo (Brazzaville), Sao Tome and Principe, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Tanzania, Uganda & Zambia

3c) The total population of Africans living in a NOT FREE independent country ranked lower/worse than average is 312,454,693;
when measuring
–Political Freedom Classification is 6 – 7
–Civil Rights Classification is 5 – 7
–Risk of Coup is LOW to HIGH
–Risk of Conflict is VERY LOW to HIGH, with some experiencing Civil War or Guerilla conflict.
These countries are Angola, Burundi, Cameroon, Chad, Democratic Republic Congo (Kinshasha), Guinea, Liberia, Mauritania, Rwanda, Swaziland, Tunisia, Congo, Cote d’Ivoire, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Somalia, Sudan, Togo, Libya & Zimbabwe

4) By comparison America is higher/better than average (population 295,734,134)
–Political Freedom Classification is 1
–Civil Rights Classification is 2
–Risk of Coup is NONE
–Risk of Conflict is NONE

NOTES:
Type Of Classification: 1- is the most free, 7- is the least free.
Categories of risk: NONE, VERY LOW,LOW, MEDIUM, HIGH
WebSource: http://www.mherrera.org/freedom.htm
(Complied from Freedomhouse, US Human Rights Report, Amnesty International)

Cobra-”Now unless you’re of the opinion that all Arab and Semitic peoples are “black”, your CIA quote is absolutely congruent with my posts, and your statement that it is tribalism, and not racism in this conflict is nonsense.”

Read it all again, I never made such an assertion. I only pointed out the irony of Arabs teaming with other American civil rights activists to beat up on white America. I only said black on black was tribalism, not racism. Typically in a less than free society, the majority is oppressed, hence my claim the average African would give anything to have it as good as the poor black American.

As for black on black American crimes, what’s your -ism for it?

>>>>>>OTOH, the average African suffers from a lack of transparency and rule of law. But sub-Sahara racism is next to non-existant.”

First, by the facts…The continent of Africa has over 682,000,000 inhabitants. How exactly did you calculate the equation that the “average African suffered from a lack of transparency and rule of law?” Did you take surveys and polls?

Andy writes:

>>>B) research basic facts. Erm, long before you were googling it, I was living in Ghana, Nigeria & Ivory Coast for a total of 9 years; speaking Twi, my 1st spoken tongue (at first I thot my nanny was my mom, and mom was just someone who put me to bed ), Yoruba & French among a couple other; living under Nkrumah, Azikiwe, Gowan & Houphoüet-Boigny; experiencing the Biafran War; going to school with Rotimi & Olujukwo’s kids; meeting with tribal chieftans & Heads of States; meeting W.E.B DuBois, among other noteables & even Hanna Reitsch; dabbling in Pan Africanism.”

So this is to mean that you can speak for 682,000,000 Africans because you grew up in Ghana, Nigeria and the Ivory Coast? Can I pidgeon-hole and stereotype over 220 million white Americans because I was raised in New Jersey, and worked in New York City?

>>>Facts: Sudan is not located in Sub-Sahara Africa.
Military regimes favoring Islamic-oriented governments have dominated national politics since independence from the UK in 1956.
[SNIP]
Ethnic groups: black 52%, Arab 39%, Beja 6%, foreigners 2%, other 1%
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/su.html”
You’re making my case, Andy. The FACT is that the Sudan is the largest nation in Africa, with 2,505,810 square miles. If you want a scale, the eastern portion of the US could fit inside it. It’s NORTHERN Arab portion is indeed in the Sahara, but it’s southern portion is NOT.

>>>Behind Sudan’s war is the story of two cultures trying to share one country. Sudan’s unique place between sub-Sahara Africa and Arab North Africa.

Sudan is both Africa’s largest country and the scene of the continent’s longest civil conflict. In nearly a half century of fighting between the mainly Muslim north and the Animist and Christian south an estimated two million people have been killed. At least four million civilians have been displaced in Sudan itself and another half million people sought shelter in neighboring states as refugees.

Sudan was colonized by the British during the 19 th century . It became the victim of forced and artificial borders with the Muslim Arabs in the north and black Africans in the south. The fundamental cause of the ethnic conflict in Sudan is racial discrimination. The Arab north was given political and military power. The black Africans in the south protested their political exclusion, military repression, and economic exploitation.

President Omar Bashir and his fundamentalist Islamic government have continuously fought against black African groups in the south; the Dinka, Nuba, and Neur peoples.”
http://www.prin.edu/panafrica/roundtable_topics_list.htm

Now unless you’re of the opinion that all Arab and Semitic peoples are “black”, your CIA quote is absolutely congruent with my posts, and your statement that it is tribalism, and not racism in this conflict is nonsense.

–Cobra

Mountainbike Vollgefedert Kinderfahrrad Neu

A) sweeping generalizations. Hmmm, I believe I’m referring to facts. I wouldn’t doubt that I could inform FOX and other right-wing news outlets. But I certainly don’t see how the MSM/DNC would learn anything from it since the facts doesn’t fit their worldview.

B) research basic facts. Erm, long before you were googling it, I was living in Ghana, Nigeria & Ivory Coast for a total of 9 years; speaking Twi, my 1st spoken tongue (at first I thot my nanny was my mom, and mom was just someone who put me to bed ), Yoruba & French among a couple other; living under Nkrumah, Azikiwe, Gowan & Houphoüet-Boigny; experiencing the Biafran War; going to school with Rotimi & Olujukwo’s kids; meeting with tribal chieftans & Heads of States; meeting W.E.B DuBois, among other noteables & even Hanna Reitsch; dabbling in Pan Africanism.

Gosh, I hope the very short list didn’t “Forrest Gump” you. Does all that, on top of the ongoing family involvement in public education systems and ministry in over 30 African countries for 50 years, count for anything?

Like I said, spare me the sob stories about modern day American racism.

Oh, did I mention that my dad was born and raised in Faifield, AL, of a poor coalminer/local evangelical minister, who set off all on his own at 17 to Detroit to get any kind of education beyond his Alabamian 8th grade equivalent. Yeah, baby, he came a long ways against million-to-one odds, and don’cha know WWII was abrewing.

Like I said, there are millions who would readily sacrifice life and limb to be here in poor Ms Hardin’s place and count it a blessing.

As for your links, ho-hum. A liberal dose of evil-white-man-is-the-bane-of-our-existence. Where was our so-called 1st black Prez Clinton on Sudan while whipping thru Africa apologizing for the events of 150-400 years ago? Granted, Reagan and Papa Bush were pre-occupied with bigger issues, even tho I’d like to have seen more attention directed at Afica. But I seem to remember something about the peace dividend and downsizing the military, even while Somalia, Rwanda and Sierra Leone was happening. If it wasn’t for Blair, we wouldn’t have done squat on Kosovo–fat, dumb and happy we were.

Facts: Sudan is not located in Sub-Sahara Africa.
Military regimes favoring Islamic-oriented governments have dominated national politics since independence from the UK in 1956.
[SNIP]
Ethnic groups: black 52%, Arab 39%, Beja 6%, foreigners 2%, other 1%
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/su.html

Hmmm, no mention of the evil racist whites, unless they comprise “other”. Blacks dominated by Arab slavers for hundreds of years. The current Arab elites aided & abetted by Osama bin Death Angel. Yet Arab non-profits, like CAIR, find common cause with ACLU & NAACP to rail against white American racism. What’s wrong with this picture?

Zimbabwe:The UK annexed Southern Rhodesia from the South Africa Company in 1923.
[SNIP]
Robert MUGABE, the nation’s first prime minister, has been the country’s only ruler (as president since 1987) and has dominated the country’s political system since independence. His chaotic land redistribution campaign begun in 2000 caused an exodus of white farmers, crippled the economy, and ushered in widespread shortages of basic commodities. Ignoring international condemnation, MUGABE rigged the 2002 presidential election to ensure his reelection. Opposition and labor groups launched general strikes in 2003 to pressure MUGABE to retire early; security forces continued their brutal repression of regime opponents.
[SNIP]
Ethnic groups: African 98% (Shona 82%, Ndebele 14%, other 2%), mixed and Asian 1%, white less than 1%
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/zi.html

Wait a minute, I think I’m seeing a pattern that refuses to be recognized by bleeding hearts here.

I was called a racist last year by a leftist white Irishman simply because I, a conservative of Irish heritage, had dared to suggest that IRA bombings might possibly be a substantial part of the troubles in Northern Ireland. Ridiculous as the charge of racism was, missing the dictionary definition by a mile, it’s the sort of non-specific accusation that is very difficult for oneself to refute.

To my mind, in most cases, the person shouting “racist” the loudest is the person with the smallest grasp of the issues and with the least to add to any solution of real problems.

>>>OTOH, the average African suffers from a lack of transparency and rule of law. But sub-Sahara racism is next to non-existant.”

It would benefit our discussion greatly if you would A) not make sweeping generalizations about entire continents full of people B) take even the most basic research about a topic before making outlandish claims such as the one above.
I mean, I know Fox News and right winged talk may have different “news priorities”, (Laci Peterson, Terri Schaivo, Runaway Brides, etc) but someone has to live in a CAVE not to have heard of the ONGOING RACIAL GENOCIDE in the Sudan, where black CHRISTIANS are being mass raped, tortured and slaughtered.
http://www.africaspeaks.com/articles/2004/1407.html
http://www.sudantribune.com/article.php3?id_article=9343

Should I mention racial issues in Zimbabwue, South Africa and…there’s a long list, Andy but this is a thread about DOMESTIC hate crimes, particularly Alicia Hardin.
Second, you seem to be asking me to post readily available information on racism that two clicks of your own mouse would easily provide.

Why is that?

–Cobra

Granted, I should have for the sake of clarity inserted “notions” between “fanciful” & “equality”. Anyhoo.

The continued existence of racism in America is evident in the fact that the best Dell could do in the banking industry is to become head janitor and has to use the service entrance after hours to do his part for the corporate machine.

The truth is that FBI stats incorporate the legal definition of hate crimes. Without that definition, we’d still have the same # of crimes. OTOH, the average African suffers from a lack of transparency and rule of law. But sub-Sahara racism is next to non-existant. If racism is so bad here, why don’t you go where you set yourself free of this monster called racism?

I’d also like to see the stats on black immigrants held down as a result of race. I mean if whites are so prejudicial that any one black is indistinguishable from a sea of black faces, how on earth could they even tell an immigrant from a native?

You have written one of the most definitive posts on racism in America I have ever seen on a blog. It is cogent, well researched, factually and historically accurate.

Andy’s response is tantamount to a “flat earth society” dismissal of reality.

>>>I don’t believe in the fanciful equality of races, I believe in the equality of man before God and the constitutional equality of opportunity. I also believe that man is innately evil. If I make up my mind to achieve something, ain’t no power on earth is going to hold me back.”

If Andy believes that man is “innately evil”, how come it’s hard for him to accept the continuing existance of racism in America?

“The truth shall set you free”, and the truth is, there are intra-racial hate crimes. I’ve provided FBI statistics as proof. I wonder what the opinion of people on this board would have been if the threats Hardin allegedly made had been CARRIED OUT, ala Columbine or Red Hills, MN?

–Cobra

Peace [extends hand]

Wait!!! I take that back, silly me, how could I forget the vast MSM/DNC conspiracy and the cults of personalities like:
– The resident High Kleagle of Congress,
– Pee Wee (no pun intended) Frizzell, Jesse Jackson doing/out-doing the Slick Monika in their respective offices,
– I could go on from ACLU to Fulbright, Gore to Soros and so on all the way to Zebra, but you get my drift. Did I mention Klanned Parenthood?

Subjective cconservatism? Hardly.

I bet, scratch, I guarantee you that there are 10s of millions of black Africans that would gladly, and unreservedly, give an arm, or their firstborn, to swap places with you and experience some of that good old time racism that you’re so intent on crying about. Sheesh. Get a life.

Let’s talk terminology. Racism-Schmatism. We’re are all descended from Adam and again from Noah, therefore everyone is a blood relative. Heck, I have 1st degree relatives that are more spiteful than the obnoxious rednecked neighbor down the street.

I don’t believe in the fanciful equality of races, I believe in the equality of man before God and the constitutional equality of opportunity. I also believe that man is innately evil. If I make up my mind to achieve something, ain’t no power on earth is going to hold me back.

“Then you still have the effects of racism which helped empower one group while marginalizing another. Cause and Effect…”

And that excuse insults the black pioneers who paved the way generations ago.

It is the black red-neck culture run amok for decades, aided and abetted by the neo-klan & bleeding hearts that is the cause of the down-trodden black American. The effect is what we see around us.

All you have to do is examine the black community in pre-civil rights era to see that as a whole, they were economically better off within the community and a much higher sense of well-being/self-esteem. Not only that, they were upwardly mobile, then came the Civil Rights Act, take 3 – LBJ.

The blacks that are pulling themselves out of this vicious spiral of helplessness are those that reject the “aw, shucks, Eyes jist a po-boy and theys aholdin’ me down an Eyes caint heps its” redneck mentality. They saw the value of education & hard work and did whatever it took to move on up to the Eastside.

“IF you really believe in the equality of races then necessity dictates that you look for alternative variables that impact groups who are unequal in practice.”

Naw, the alternative variable that afflicts the black redneck culture is bling-bling, getting pimped, instant gratification, no ambition, no focus, no responsibility, no self-discipline, no self-esteem, no self-control and a good dose of wa-a-a-a-a-a-a-ah!!

Cry me a river!!!

“We know wealth and opportunity is passed from generation to successive generation. We know that higher rates of poverty (for any race) increase the likelihood of a child being in poverty amongst other things.”

Then explain the dirt poor black immigrants that come in and work their way up.

And that’s the tragedy inflicted upon us by the poverty/race pimps who violate Leviticus 19:17 everytime they open their mouth.

Your broken feet analogy sucks!!

Then run in the wheelchair class, or find another race that you can compete in, since you weren’t meant to run the foot race. Or you rewrite the rulebook that you’re going to play by. No matter what, you simply run with what God gave you and don’t make excuses.

The liberals have a tendency to flip from the personal perspective to the social perspective whenever it is convenient, and to run to Papa Fed, lately Aunty Justice, to make an argument for abidcating their portion of responsibility.

Figuratively speaking, over my dead body.

In closing, it’s telling that you have no objective rebuttal to my earlier points. Proverbs 14:12 & 16:25

I think you are confused on terminology, racism is the application of power to subjugate or marginalize based upon the believe that one race is superior and the other inferior. Which is why the term ‘racism’ in has lost its relevence. What you are saying is that prejudice can only hold someone down.

Racism is not an isolated individualistic social phenomen. It is a corporate practice that enables one group to maintain and control the institutions, and economic systems of another. So let us say hypothetically, I agree…racism is dead…(which I don’t)….

Then you still have the effects of racism which helped empower one group while marginalizing another. Cause and Effect…

IF you really believe in the equality of races then necessity dictates that you look for alternative variables that impact groups who are unequal in practice.

We know that the governments practice of adjusting the interest rate to control inflation is a variable that determines certain spending patterns in America. The most recent and vivid example (I am a business banker by trade) is the run on housing refinances and new mortgages when the interest rate fell. Cause and Effect.

In America racism wasn’t simply a moral phenomenon, it was an economic phenomenon in which blacks were specifically reduces to chattel, limited from having a normative sociological development, locked out of wealth building opportunities, and other forms of development that ethnic minorities of other types were privey too.

So when you say slavery, sharecropping, jim crow, etc. is dead, what you simultaneously fail to mention is the benefits that accrued to one group at the expenses of another didn’t mysteriously stop. We know wealth and opportunity is passed from generation to successive generation. We know that higher rates of poverty (for any race) increase the likelihood of a child being in poverty amongst other things. Therefore to simply make the statement racism is dead therefore no-one can keep you down is tanamount to saying, your feet are broken but you can equally compete with someone with healthy feet. The exceptional athlete may indeed be able to compete, but the average broken foot athlete won’t be able to compete with the average well foot athlete.

Final example, I know this is long.

Baseball. Statistically the team with the highest payroll finishes in the top 4 of the league, while the teams with the lowest payroll the bottom 4. That does not mean that occasionally a small market team doesn’t have an exceptional season where things fall perfectly in place and they rank high, but ON AVERAGE…they don’t. YANKEES…

The conservatives have a tendency to flip from the social perspective to the individual perspective whenever it is conventient to make an argument for abdicating there portion of culpability.

Jim Crow is dead, why do people insist on holding seances to bring him back, or to resurrect him?

I’ll be blunt, I don’t care about the crybaby secular worldview. Instead, from a Judeo-Christian worldview, history is replete with people who have overcome ephemeral restraints to become a tool for God. As Christian, why then would any of us allow a sinful world to desalinate us spiritually, emotionally and physically?

To wit,
–Joseph was sold into slavery. Had he dwelled on how unfair it all was, he would have died a miserable slave and in his sins.

–Joseph was tossed into jail as a result of sexual harassment and the false accusation of attempted rape. Had he dwelled on how he was framed, he would have died in jail and in sin.

–You know the story of Daniel, suffice to say, had he succumbed to the King’s lawful commands, Daniel and his pals would have died fat, dumb & unhappy and in sin.

Jump to the NT
–Stephen could have just shut up and quit antagonizing the theocrats & Saul. Instead he was filled with joy while being stoned as a result of theocratic prejudice.

–Onesimus was a legal slave that ran away from his master, now “free”, he could have refused to go back and would have lived unhappily ever after. However, he willingly obeyed Paul to go back, but with a letter for Philemon to treat him as a brother in Christ and all counted it for joy, love & grace.

–Of course we know of the countless abuses that the apostles suffered for their faith, race being the least of it. Given the laws in place, they could have whined about how unfair and tragic it all was.

It would have been so easy for them to just forget about it and avoid the harassment. Oh how easy it would be to rationalize it and say ‘I jist can’t spread the good news, when there’s so much racism/prejudice/hate all around me’.

Jump to American history
–Fredrick Douglass, Uncle Tom, George W Carver, etc, etc and so forth and so on. You get the point.

The Man couldn’t hold them down. Needless to say, I think they would slap us all silly for crying about ‘how bad we’s gots it’. Another point I would make is that most of the movers-n-shakers were people of faith. Faith in the God above.

–In this post-Jim Crow day and age, anyone crying about being held back/down is full of it!!

Romans 8 pretty much ties that all up.

Explain…particularly if claim you are an objectivest…

Plus, at best they only have a disruption/disturbing the peace charge, which isn’t going to get her much in the way of punishment.

All a full prosecution will do is give her the opportunity to scream and howl about racism in the justice system—gives her even more attention, talk shows, and a book deal.

She becomes the new Anita Hill.