Remember the U.S. soldier who was photographed pulling Iraqi prisoners by a dog leash at Abu Ghraib? Lynndie England was being tried for her “crimes,” but the judge just declared a mistrial.
Developing…
Related posts: War and Its Discontents, The Left’s Self-Destruction…
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“Lynndie England was being tried for her “crimes,â€
why the scare quotes?
erm, innocent until proven guilt?
Apparently someone testified for the defense saying that the photos were part of a series of training photos on how to deal with prisoners. At least that’s what I just saw on the AP.
I sincerely hope that the United States isn’t making it part of practice to torture and humiliate prisoners.
Otherwise, what separates us from that which we say we hate?
“erm, innocent until proven guilt? ”
That does seem to be the MO around here.
Well you’re the Bobby Donnell defense lawyer wannabe, tell us what her plan B’ll be.
It sounds like Graner is taking one last bullet for his girl friend and surprised everyone with the “training film” hocum. If England was bright enough to get into the Army, she was bright enough to know that privates and sergeants don’t decide to make “training films” for other guards. She was also bright enough to know that what they were doing was outside the bounds of proper military conduct. I bet the convening authority (General Officer) is having a conniption fit.
The battalion and brigade command structure needs more than the slaps on the wrist they got for permitting the lax command structure to result in an out-of-control company. However, the enlisted soldiers involved knew the difference between right and wrong.
Carla,
Let’s see, what separates us from that which we hate?
How about that our political factions, chiefly repubs and demos, do not murder each other.
We do not have an established religion, and we do our best not to persecute (butcher) each other out of religious, ethnic, and gender hatred.
We are free to worship, or not, as we wish.
We have free and open elections.
I could go on even though I too do not support torturing people.
Judge mentioned something about England not fully understanding her actions were against policy.
Is he looking for means to push this thing up the ladder?
Well, I heard something the other day, must have been the defense spin. Anyhoo, it had me wondering how she ever got in the army in the first place due to her mental capacity. Must have been an overzealous recruiter trying to make his quota. That or she’s playing dumb and dumber.
OTOH, this mistrail could actually open the door to her getting a stiffer sentence than the orginal plea agreement.
LOL
So well… that settles that I suppose.
The army thought a reserve unit composed of civilian prison guards would not need much supervision to perform that same function for the army. They guessed wrong. The fact that all the guards were democrats has never come out. I would have given her company punishment, her sergeant 5 years for screwing a subordinate, and the company officers would never see another promotion.
Then I would check to see if Michael Moore paid them to make some movies for him.
Given what goes on in some american prisons, I am amazed that the army thought the reservists needed little extra training or supervision.
While agree the punishment deffinetly needs to go higher than just the enlisted and nco’s on the spot (their officers had to know, or were negligent in keeping an eye on things), but unlike many on the left, I have serious doubts that it goes beyond the Abu Graib command structure or up to Rummy.
The Army isn’t know for having the highest intellectual enlistment standards. It has been jokingly said that when the Army is “hard up” for soldiers, they lower their already low minimum test score requirements. I doubt that it’s that much removed from the truth. It doesn’t take a genius to carry a rifle with the infantry.
Just to clarify, PVT England was a supply clerk, not a military policeman. She’s young, and doesn’t really look that bright. I think Graner took advantage of that, and is trying to make amends in the only way he can. I don’t think she should be let off the hook, but I think a discharge is in order for her.
I still don’t buy Graner’s “I was under orders” defense. Everyone in the military is trained to know a lawful order from an unlawful order, and is under no obligation to follow an unlawful order. Whether or not he was ordered, he was wrong and deserves to hammer rocks at Leavenworth. I think there should be some senior NCO’s and Officers get some discipline since their troops apparently had none. And for the record, I do not mean Gen Meyers, Donald Rumsfeld, or President Bush. I’m betting the responsibilty for the Abu Ghraib debacle tops out at Maj Gen level.
Just my 2 cents…
Hmmm. I am a little miffed that the brass have gotten off. If you are in command, you are responsible. I suppose Pfc. England will be fried at a later date, but there are bigger fish to fry that seem to have escaped. The Army is satisfied with throwing a few reservists under the train, when they weren’t truly equipped to do the duties they were charged with. The whole thing stinks. And yes, Rummy and others up the chain ARE responsible. I may not sic my dog on you, but if he gets out of the yard and bites you on the tush, who gets sued? Oh, I see. I guess I’d better get Fido a lawyer.
I never thought it was torture to put underwear on mens heads and photograph them naked. This is no torture. Beheading people is torture. I am sick of this whole silliness. I agree with Zell Miller. Its all silliness, move on.
I agree too, shari. Silliness. “Oooohhhh nooooo! Let’s not give the poor terrorists wet willies or kick them in the shins or look at them funny in order to get information out of them!” Ugh.
Re: Lynndie England – ah, another illustrious West Virginian. I wish my fellow WV-ians would stop being so infamous (i.e. Robert Byrd (aka Yoda the Younger) and Jack Whittaker, the Powerball lottery winner who can’t seem to stop getting arrested for DUI and/or getting robbed at strip clubs because he carries $100,000 in cash around in his vehicle.) Me, I just lay low – watching my brother/uncle/grandfather Bubba grill up some roadkill (squirrels!) out the window, washing my good china (matching Cool Whip Bowls!) rubbing my pregnant belly and wishing I had shoes. I kid.
“I never thought it was torture to put underwear on mens heads and photograph them naked”
I wonder what else she might have done.
#18 Why do you assume there was worse? These were stupid games they were playing, it wasn’t torture. Look to Saddam, and other despots for REAL torture tactics. In my world, torture usually involves pain! How much does “panties on your head” hurt?
I don’t buy at all that Pvt England was “brain damaged” – such people just don’t qualify for military duty.
And don’t let the slow-talking drawl fool you – I lived in W Va from 1978 to 1982 – this is just the local styly – a lot of smart people talk slow with a drawl.
I don’t believe “torture” is the proper term here, but it sure was unprofessional conduct- so unprofessional that it warrents jail time.
Like the mud-wrestling incident, this is just living proof of the folly of
I don’t buy at all that Pvt England was “brain damaged†– such people just don’t qualify for military duty.
And don’t let the slow-talking drawl fool you – I lived in W Va from 1978 to 1982 – this is just the local styly – a lot of smart people talk slow with a drawl.
I don’t believe “torture†is the proper term here, but it sure was unprofessional conduct- so unprofessional that it warrents jail time.
Like the mud-wrestling incident, this is just living proof of the folly of close contact of men and women in combat.
“#18 Why do you assume there was worse?”
Because I think our JAG authorities are more competent than lindie, and wouldn’t have charged her for just putting panties on people’s heads.
Also, I think that for most of us, putting panties on our heads would require some actual application of force, because we wouldn’t submit to it. And thus its quite reasonable to expect that putting panties on someone’s head requires convincing them or coercing them to.
Frank, but don’t you know that’s PC to put men & women together in combat?
Score one for the women’s liberation to risk life & limb, as well as jail for stupid acts.
Wonder if the sexualization of the prisoners would have happened in a male only situation?
I think the defense attempt to use the addled victimization card is going to backfire, and rightly so. There is no excuse for prisoner abuse and it gives legal torture a bad name.
ANOTHER SLOW-TALKING WEST VIRGINIAN
I forgot to note another famour slow-talking West Virginian – and a smart one at that:
SENATOR ROBERT KKK BYRD
Frank, spot on. LOL.
# 19: Charly, you’re new around here, so I’ll save you some time: Beacause he’s actus, LaShawn’s resident contrarian. The proverbial slave whispering in the conqueror’s ear “Remember you are nothing but a man.”
Or in this case, a woman
we overlook the fact that the rejection of the guilty plea might result in more time served for england.
I’m also siding with the “this isn’t torture” argument. It is mistreatment though. Let’s move on.
I know some folks who would pay for the kind of mistreatment these criminals endured
Here’s my question, did England and company make sure the baathists knew the safe word?
SCSI, you’re3 on a roll
“Here’s my question, did England and company make sure the baathists knew the safe word?”
Its not illegal when htere’s consent.
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