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	<title>Comments on: Psycho Dad</title>
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		<title>By: Chris Leavitt</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43828</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Leavitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2005 08:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I hope you don&#039;t mind if I excerpt Doug Giles, from my LEAVWORLD blog:

Sunday, May 01, 2005
WHY IT&#039;S NOT HYPOCRITICAL FOR CHRISTIANS TO SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY 
Doug Giles makes a compelling case for Christians to support the death penalty. Here are two relevant paragraphs:

&quot;If I were the toad that took the life of the Lundsford or the Lunde girl, the right &#039;Christian&#039; thing to do to show that I &#039;love myself&#039; would be to confess to the crime, give myself up to the police, seek forgiveness from Almighty God (and beg it from all family members of my victim) and then ask to be deleted. Iâ€™m not part of the Kool-Aid drinkers who think &#039;loving your enemy as one loves himself&#039; excludes punishing to death the perpetratorâ€”whether itâ€™s someone else or me.&quot;

&quot;If I did such a damnable act and really loved myself, then I would dutifully subject my person to punishmentâ€”in particular to death. Yes, if I really loved myself, I would bear responsibility for my actions, which means that I would insist on taking one for the team by leaving this planet, via execution, because I have just violently offended the sensibility of the entire human collective.&quot;

AMEN. 

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope you don&#8217;t mind if I excerpt Doug Giles, from my LEAVWORLD blog:</p>
<p>Sunday, May 01, 2005<br />
WHY IT&#8217;S NOT HYPOCRITICAL FOR CHRISTIANS TO SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY<br />
Doug Giles makes a compelling case for Christians to support the death penalty. Here are two relevant paragraphs:</p>
<p>&#8220;If I were the toad that took the life of the Lundsford or the Lunde girl, the right &#8216;Christian&#8217; thing to do to show that I &#8216;love myself&#8217; would be to confess to the crime, give myself up to the police, seek forgiveness from Almighty God (and beg it from all family members of my victim) and then ask to be deleted. Iâ€™m not part of the Kool-Aid drinkers who think &#8216;loving your enemy as one loves himself&#8217; excludes punishing to death the perpetratorâ€”whether itâ€™s someone else or me.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;If I did such a damnable act and really loved myself, then I would dutifully subject my person to punishmentâ€”in particular to death. Yes, if I really loved myself, I would bear responsibility for my actions, which means that I would insist on taking one for the team by leaving this planet, via execution, because I have just violently offended the sensibility of the entire human collective.&#8221;</p>
<p>AMEN.</p>
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		<title>By: Nardo</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43522</link>
		<dc:creator>Nardo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 May 2005 14:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43522</guid>
		<description>annoying litttle twerp,

If you want to know whether people value the life of Jerry Hobbs more than that of the little girls, ask the question.  The answer is no, of course.  The state of Illinois was not involved in the choice to take the girls&#039; lives.  They are involved in choosing whether to take Hobbs&#039;s life.  If the choice before the state were whether to kill Hobbs and bring back the girls to life, the state would most certainly do it and demonstrate that the girls&#039; lives are indeed more valuable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>annoying litttle twerp,</p>
<p>If you want to know whether people value the life of Jerry Hobbs more than that of the little girls, ask the question.  The answer is no, of course.  The state of Illinois was not involved in the choice to take the girls&#8217; lives.  They are involved in choosing whether to take Hobbs&#8217;s life.  If the choice before the state were whether to kill Hobbs and bring back the girls to life, the state would most certainly do it and demonstrate that the girls&#8217; lives are indeed more valuable.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Thomas</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43408</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2005 18:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43408</guid>
		<description>Jenney,

You believe that the Apostle Paul should have been executed instead of called to the ministry?

The problem I see with many conservative evenagelicals is that they seem to think that salvation is just about waiting to die so they can get to heaven.  The new birth starts now, not with the electric chair or gas or lethal injection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenney,</p>
<p>You believe that the Apostle Paul should have been executed instead of called to the ministry?</p>
<p>The problem I see with many conservative evenagelicals is that they seem to think that salvation is just about waiting to die so they can get to heaven.  The new birth starts now, not with the electric chair or gas or lethal injection.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenney</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43399</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2005 16:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43399</guid>
		<description>Not sure I get this reasoning:
&quot;If justice demands the death penalty, then Paul is an imposter to the mantle of faith and falsely testifies to the redeeming work of Jesus Christ.&quot;
Justice demanding the dp doesn&#039;t seem to have anything to do with whether Paul was later able to have his life redeemed and become a person of faith.

&quot;Putting someone to death is our statement that their life cannot be redeemed&quot; may be your opinion, but I&#039;ve never heart a dp advocate claim this, even in implication.  Murderers can and sometimes do repent and they can and sometimes are forgiven. Their lives can be redeemed in a spiritual sense by  Christ.  That isn&#039;t the point, though.  The death penalty is punishment for crime.  I would love to see killers repent and find forgiveness in Christ.  But that doesn&#039;t change the fact that they should be punished in this life by the State.

It isn&#039;t a statement on whether they can be redeemed.  It is a statement on whether what they have done deserves the highest punishment the law can give.  For dp supporters, the answer is yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure I get this reasoning:<br />
&#8220;If justice demands the death penalty, then Paul is an imposter to the mantle of faith and falsely testifies to the redeeming work of Jesus Christ.&#8221;<br />
Justice demanding the dp doesn&#8217;t seem to have anything to do with whether Paul was later able to have his life redeemed and become a person of faith.</p>
<p>&#8220;Putting someone to death is our statement that their life cannot be redeemed&#8221; may be your opinion, but I&#8217;ve never heart a dp advocate claim this, even in implication.  Murderers can and sometimes do repent and they can and sometimes are forgiven. Their lives can be redeemed in a spiritual sense by  Christ.  That isn&#8217;t the point, though.  The death penalty is punishment for crime.  I would love to see killers repent and find forgiveness in Christ.  But that doesn&#8217;t change the fact that they should be punished in this life by the State.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t a statement on whether they can be redeemed.  It is a statement on whether what they have done deserves the highest punishment the law can give.  For dp supporters, the answer is yes.</p>
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		<title>By: annoying litttle twerp</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43388</link>
		<dc:creator>annoying litttle twerp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2005 10:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43388</guid>
		<description>Jerry Hobbs can still be forgiven by God and can go to heaven-but the fact remains that the State of Illinois  can still demand that he face the appropriate punishment for commiting  murder.
They&#039;re not mutually exclusive.
If Jerry Hobbs isn&#039;t executed then it says a message that his life is considered to be more valuable than the lives of the little girls he murdered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry Hobbs can still be forgiven by God and can go to heaven-but the fact remains that the State of Illinois  can still demand that he face the appropriate punishment for commiting  murder.<br />
They&#8217;re not mutually exclusive.<br />
If Jerry Hobbs isn&#8217;t executed then it says a message that his life is considered to be more valuable than the lives of the little girls he murdered.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Thomas</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43384</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2005 07:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43384</guid>
		<description>The Apostle Paul was a murderer, motivated by hate-filled animus toward Christians.  Was he any less of an animal?  Was he any less a scumbag? And yet we view his writings as inspired by God and authority for Christian living.  If justice demands the death penalty, then Paul is an imposter to the mantle of faith and falsely testifies to the redeeming work of Jesus Christ.  Putting someone to death is our statement that their life cannot be redeemed.  Yet the Bible says that the Kingdom begins in this life and doesn&#039;t merely await heaven and Christ&#039;s return.  The death penalty proclaims that the Kingdom here and now is but an illusion, a grand hoax. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Apostle Paul was a murderer, motivated by hate-filled animus toward Christians.  Was he any less of an animal?  Was he any less a scumbag? And yet we view his writings as inspired by God and authority for Christian living.  If justice demands the death penalty, then Paul is an imposter to the mantle of faith and falsely testifies to the redeeming work of Jesus Christ.  Putting someone to death is our statement that their life cannot be redeemed.  Yet the Bible says that the Kingdom begins in this life and doesn&#8217;t merely await heaven and Christ&#8217;s return.  The death penalty proclaims that the Kingdom here and now is but an illusion, a grand hoax.</p>
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		<title>By: annoying litttle twerp</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43372</link>
		<dc:creator>annoying litttle twerp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2005 03:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43372</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve blogged about this on my site.
As an Illinois myself-south of Chicago-I can tell you that the majority of those I&#039;ve discussed this case with think this scum deserves the death penalty-and make sure he suffers.
However-in Ill-ANNOY-thanks to the indicted former governor-George &quot;Lyin&#039;&quot; Ryan-there is a moritorium on the death penalty.
If Hobbs dies it will be because his prison mate didn&#039;t take kindly to a double child killer-not because he got executed.

As for those who oppose capitol punishment-well my husband explains it best.
He-and I believe-that every citizen is party to an unspoken social contract. that cotract implies that you&#039;ll live by the laws of decent society. If you break that contract then the state/ society has no obligation to honor said contract and in fact have responsibilty to make sure your victims are given justice.
Sometimes justice requires the ultimate penalty.
I believe that I would rather see one innocent be &quot;wronged&quot;-than see 100  gulity escape the punishment they deserve.
Oh-and though I also suffered from post-partum psychosis-I believe Yates should have been given the death penalty.
Those murdered little ones deserved justice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve blogged about this on my site.<br />
As an Illinois myself-south of Chicago-I can tell you that the majority of those I&#8217;ve discussed this case with think this scum deserves the death penalty-and make sure he suffers.<br />
However-in Ill-ANNOY-thanks to the indicted former governor-George &#8220;Lyin&#8217;&#8221; Ryan-there is a moritorium on the death penalty.<br />
If Hobbs dies it will be because his prison mate didn&#8217;t take kindly to a double child killer-not because he got executed.</p>
<p>As for those who oppose capitol punishment-well my husband explains it best.<br />
He-and I believe-that every citizen is party to an unspoken social contract. that cotract implies that you&#8217;ll live by the laws of decent society. If you break that contract then the state/ society has no obligation to honor said contract and in fact have responsibilty to make sure your victims are given justice.<br />
Sometimes justice requires the ultimate penalty.<br />
I believe that I would rather see one innocent be &#8220;wronged&#8221;-than see 100  gulity escape the punishment they deserve.<br />
Oh-and though I also suffered from post-partum psychosis-I believe Yates should have been given the death penalty.<br />
Those murdered little ones deserved justice.</p>
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		<title>By: 42</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43353</link>
		<dc:creator>42</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 22:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43353</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Bible and Ethics&lt;/strong&gt;

In a comment on connexions &quot;Justifying the Death Penalty,&quot; Richard says What would you give as the main planks of a *Biblical* argument against the use of the death penalty? So as a response and a followup to...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Bible and Ethics</strong></p>
<p>In a comment on connexions &#8220;Justifying the Death Penalty,&#8221; Richard says What would you give as the main planks of a *Biblical* argument against the use of the death penalty? So as a response and a followup to&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: avery</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43307</link>
		<dc:creator>avery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 16:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43307</guid>
		<description>Peter, so am I to understand your position as, &#039;since we&#039;re all guilty vis a vis God&#039;s judgement, then why should we even care whether the state kills an innocent person?&#039;  

Just wanted to clarify

#35, see Ultimate Punishment by Scott Turow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, so am I to understand your position as, &#8217;since we&#8217;re all guilty vis a vis God&#8217;s judgement, then why should we even care whether the state kills an innocent person?&#8217;  </p>
<p>Just wanted to clarify</p>
<p>#35, see Ultimate Punishment by Scott Turow.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim R</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43295</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 14:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43295</guid>
		<description>Peter, you&#039;re scaring me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, you&#8217;re scaring me.</p>
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		<title>By: RedBeard</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43280</link>
		<dc:creator>RedBeard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 11:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43280</guid>
		<description>Tangent:

None of this discussion about the death penalty would be needed, and two innocent little girls would still be alive, if this monster had been kept in prison where he belonged.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tangent:</p>
<p>None of this discussion about the death penalty would be needed, and two innocent little girls would still be alive, if this monster had been kept in prison where he belonged.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Tanner</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43278</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Tanner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 11:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43278</guid>
		<description>#18, #23

Cite one case in the US where it has been proven after the fact that an innocent person received the death penalty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#18, #23</p>
<p>Cite one case in the US where it has been proven after the fact that an innocent person received the death penalty.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43274</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 09:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43274</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Ditto Darkstar, Avery, and Nardo. Iâ€™m for the death penalty in theory, but not even one innocent life taken is worth applying it. Humans not only make honest mistakes; theyâ€™ve also been known to lie to get the desired results.&lt;/em&gt;

Innocent by which standard? Innocent by God&#039;s standard or by the court&#039;s standard?  Are we not ALL guilty by God&#039;s standard? (Romans 3:23)  Therefore, do we not ALL deserve death? (Romans 6:23) Can it honestly be said that anyone put to death did not deserve it according to God&#039;s standard? (Barring Christ Jesus.) 

But who ar you, O man, to answer back to God? (Romans 9:20) It seems that death is our just reward.  Death is what we each deserve if God is just.  To receive anything more than that is God&#039;s mercy and grace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Ditto Darkstar, Avery, and Nardo. Iâ€™m for the death penalty in theory, but not even one innocent life taken is worth applying it. Humans not only make honest mistakes; theyâ€™ve also been known to lie to get the desired results.</em></p>
<p>Innocent by which standard? Innocent by God&#8217;s standard or by the court&#8217;s standard?  Are we not ALL guilty by God&#8217;s standard? (Romans 3:23)  Therefore, do we not ALL deserve death? (Romans 6:23) Can it honestly be said that anyone put to death did not deserve it according to God&#8217;s standard? (Barring Christ Jesus.) </p>
<p>But who ar you, O man, to answer back to God? (Romans 9:20) It seems that death is our just reward.  Death is what we each deserve if God is just.  To receive anything more than that is God&#8217;s mercy and grace.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim R</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43269</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 05:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43269</guid>
		<description>Oh, great input Jenney.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, great input Jenney.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim R</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/comment-page-1/#comment-43268</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 05:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/12/psycho/#comment-43268</guid>
		<description>&quot;I am afraid of sentencing by victims.&quot;

No Jeff. That would not be a good thing and not what I suggested. Judges determine life in prison or the death penalty for murderers by taking a jury&#039;s recommendation and impact testimony from the family suffering the loss.

The family harmed, not what others believe about the validity of death as a punishment for murder in general(and that includes Judges BTW) is what should be done.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I am afraid of sentencing by victims.&#8221;</p>
<p>No Jeff. That would not be a good thing and not what I suggested. Judges determine life in prison or the death penalty for murderers by taking a jury&#8217;s recommendation and impact testimony from the family suffering the loss.</p>
<p>The family harmed, not what others believe about the validity of death as a punishment for murder in general(and that includes Judges BTW) is what should be done.</p>
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