Update (6/30): MM visitors, read about what I think of Mexico’s blackface comedy.
——————————————————————————————
American co-president and Mexican president Vicente Fox has stirred the racial waters. As a justification for flooding our country with his poor subjects, he said, “There is no doubt that Mexicans, filled with dignity, willingness and ability to work are doing jobs that not even blacks want to do there in the United States.” (Source)
His office issued a lame apology. Honestly, I don’t know what he’s apologizing for. I think what he said is true. Americans in general, not just blacks, are so used to living in a welfare state, they’d probably rather exist on the government dole than do “undignified” work. I believe there’s dignity in all work, as long as you’re hard working and self-supporting. But nobody asked me.
Unfortunately, some people are taught from birth that it’s OK to live off the labor of others. Welfare checks are an entitlement instead of a source of shame. But Fox should have kept race out of it.
Vicente, I don’t know how you run things in Mexico (and don’t want to know), but if you’re going to co-govern a country like the U.S., you need to be sensitive. We have protected classes of citizens in this country, and saying anything negative about them could ruin your reputation. Truth is not a defense.
Related posts:
Unrelated Update (11:48 a.m.): Another scam! “Black men” will spend $10 million to study racism. Good grief.
Update II (4:09 p.m.): Mexicans aren’t very nice to blacks in Mexico, it seems.
Reelcobra has the latest on the Vicente Fox “shakedown.”
Update III: Vicente Fox apologizes — to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton? They don’t speak for me! I think I’m going to be sick.
Why doesn’t Fox apologize to all Americans for pushing illegal immigration on the U.S. and trying to erode our sovereignty? Why doesn’t he apologize to everyone who’s been victimized by some Mexican criminal gangbanger? After that, he can apologize to millions of American taxpayers whose local clinics and ERs have been shut down and schools overburdened with illegal aliens who just so happen to come from his country? And his remarks about the Minuteman Project, a group of American volunteers trying to do the job Curious George won’t do?
Disgust, disgust, disgust. All day long I’ve been disgusted by the news, by idiotic comments on this blog. Sometimes I wonder whether this blogging thing is really worth it.
While _some_ people do not want to do those jobs, what he said, IMO, was _factually_ wrong.
Quick example: Black people have no problem working as garbage men. Have you been behind a garbage truck, in August, in D.C.? Tell me that’s a pleasant experience. Now tell me what it must be like for the men.
One of the areas that I work in, has a cleaning staff that’s Black. Another area has a cleaning staff that’s Latino. The latter speaks Spanish through their shift.
Comment by DarkStar — 05.16.05 @ 8:21 am
We shouldn’t try to assign too much in the way of specific personality traits to Fox. That would be giving him too much credit. Judging by his bizarre actions and comments over the last year or so, he’s not a sly fox; he’s just an idiot. Too bad our own president won’t tell him so.
Comment by RedBeard — 05.16.05 @ 8:54 am
Where is the outrage? If a conservative said this it would be bigger than Abu Girab! The leader of the failed nation of Mexico is on the same side as the libs in their quest to disolve our borders. Where is the Black Caucus? Where’s Jessie and all the other professionally offended?
Comment by pajamazon — 05.16.05 @ 9:00 am
Haha…this guy…
It is amazing to me he is justifying “ILLEGAL” immigration. Bush won’t stomp him. What a wuss..
Comment by Dell Gines — 05.16.05 @ 9:43 am
LaShawn
I’m going to disagree with you on this one. It has little to do with a “welfare” state and more to do with why and how illegals come here to work. Even for a citizen to work at minimum wage is going to cost the employer much more in SocSec and worker’s comp just to start. For some employer’s … the non-chain restaurant/fastfood place, the mom-pop hardware store, the landscaper/contractor looking for some bodies for a day or few, the illegal up here willing to work off the books for cash is the perfect regulation dodge. And the illegal isn’t here trying to buy a home or contribute to the community. S/he is here for the cash so they are willing to sleep fifteen to an apartment, to sit hours in an ER for regular medical care, to not purchase much from local businesses since most of the cash they earn is going to be sent out of the country.
Comment by Darleen — 05.16.05 @ 9:44 am
“Co-govern”!? La Shawn, you crack me up. Didn’t they tell you it’s supposed to be a secret.
Comment by bindare — 05.16.05 @ 10:08 am
IN THE NEWS
A Monday round-up of immigration stories to keep an eye on: - Vicente Fox, racist? La Shawn Barber examines and Reuters updates the story. - Bloomberg News’ Nicholas Johnston has an interesting piece on the split between Rep. Tom Tancredo…
Trackback by The Immigration Blog — 05.16.05 @ 10:14 am
If I absorbed/believed every comment that was made negatively about black folks (and it was a backhanded slap), I’d be in the looney bin. if I don’t pay attention to the ignorant folks in my own country, Vicente Fox is definitely on IGNORE.
I choose to focus on the positive aspects of being black (and for you that don’t think so, THERE ARE), therefore I don’t have time to dwell on nonsense.
Comment by Tiffany In Mpls — 05.16.05 @ 10:16 am
Tiffany, ignoring Vicente Fox is a little difficult to do as long as the foreigner is dictating America’s immigration policy. I wish we’d just CLOSE the border and shut him up for good, but Curious George has other ideas.
Comment by La Shawn — 05.16.05 @ 10:22 am
Vicente Fox should make a wish to become Howard Dean. That way, he gets to say what he wants (no matter how insensitive) and get a free pass.
Comment by Ray Phelps — 05.16.05 @ 10:33 am
I see your point LaShawn, I was just referring to his general ignorance in light of those particular comments. The borders won’t get closed because there are too many people making good money off the backs of non-legal aliens by paying them under the table.
Comment by Tiffany In Mpls — 05.16.05 @ 10:48 am
Vicente Fox: Mexicans do jobs “not even blacks will do”
Mexican President Vicente Fox tossed a not-so-veiled insult at black Americans yesterday when he insisted that the US should admit illegal immigrants because they do jobs that “not even blacks will do.”"There is no doubt that Mexicans, filled with d…
Trackback by Ramblings' Journal — 05.16.05 @ 10:59 am
The most interesting thing to me in hearing these comments (outside of the blatant insulting of American Citizens by a foreign Head of State) is where is the outrage in Washington!!?? Where is the President/Congress saying “Don’t worry about what our LEGAL CITIZENS are doing, worry about what YOUR citizens are doing…breaking the law to enter this country!”
This is a signal brighter than ever that everyone except Congressmen Tom Tancredo (R-CO), is not only ignoring the problem of illegal immigration, but flat out tacitly encouraging it.
I am now starting to side with columnist (and former California Republican Senate candidate) Devvy Kidd in saying vote EVERY sitting incumbant in Congress (except Tom Tancredo) out of office in 2006.
Comment by M. Woodward — 05.16.05 @ 11:34 am
You support Tom Tancredo? Color me shocked. I guess I made assumptions about you because you seem to be the moderate-liberal type.
Comment by La Shawn — 05.16.05 @ 11:36 am
Mexico has been a worker’s paradise since 1929.
How do you claim wages as a business expense if your workers are ‘off the books?’ Anyone who tried that would be audited within an inch of his life.
Comment by Walter E. Wallis — 05.16.05 @ 11:42 am
La Shawn:
I could see your shock based on the issues I have commented on :-). But, remember I have said before that I am a fiscal conservative and a Constitutionalist, but I am also a hardcore free market advocate. I guess I could be classified as a social moderate, you know live and let live, mind your own business and that kind of stuff.
But, I fully support anyone that is for upholding the Constitution, the laws of this country and its defending its sovereignty. They can be Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green Party or anything else. I support principles not parties. That’s why I’m an Independant and I support Tom Tancredo.
Comment by M. Woodward — 05.16.05 @ 12:11 pm
Fox Gets Racy
La Shawn Barber has the story of the recent comments by Vicente Fox…
Trackback by Polipundit — 05.16.05 @ 12:27 pm
What offended me is the “not even blacks” part. Yes, migrant workers do a lot of work that nobody wants to do - black included. It’s unfortunate that they’re here illegally but regardless of their immigration status, they work nonetheless. That’s more than we can say about some that have been getting free rides from generation to generation. There’s a difference between a “hand out” and a “hand UP”.
Two words stick out to me more than any in what Fox said - “not even”. To me, this clearly implies that he thinks blacks are the lowest group in society or some sort of sub-species of human beings. The controversy in his speech shouldn’t be about illegal immigration. Instead, emphasis should be focused on whether or not Vicente Fox views all people the same.
Comment by Eddie — 05.16.05 @ 12:39 pm
Exactly Eddie, that is how I took it…
But I think this is common think among American’s…but they are to PC to say it…I believe the average white American thinks that the average Black american is of the lowest social class…
Fox just doesn’t have to worry about the backlash from his constituents in saying it…
Comment by Dell Gines — 05.16.05 @ 12:50 pm
Lashawn - why to you end your sentence on $10 Million dollars to study the effects of white racism with “Good Grief” and refer to it as a “Scam”?
Take a guess. - Admin
Comment by Dell Gines — 05.16.05 @ 12:53 pm
“I believe the average white American thinks that the average Black american is of the lowest social class…”
There we have the problem in a nutshell. Statements like that perpetuate the stereotypes and lead to nonsensical wastes of time like the white racism study.
Comment by RedBeard — 05.16.05 @ 1:03 pm
LaShawn, I would truly love to see the day individuals like you and Redbeard would truly step out of the shell of blogging safe havens and engage individuals of alternative views in true logical debate an discussion.
Now that’s an insult! I’ll have you know that my face-to-face debating is just as illogical.
Seriously, though, I would LOVE to engage in a real debate, with rules and time limits. In fact, I was invited to do one sometime last year, but there wasn’t enough time for me to prepare. I doubt you’re involved in real debates, Dell, but I guess it feels righteous to throw stones. You do your “debating” face-to-face (I presume), and I’ll do mine online…and face-to-face should the opportunity arise. - Admin
Comment by Dell Gines — 05.16.05 @ 1:10 pm
o.k., Your post is a joke right? The fact you didn’t see Fox comments as an insult really says a lot about how YOU feel about Black people.
Then your “live off the labor of others” comment…excuse me but doesn’t everyone “live off the labor of others”?
The corporations which transport things on highways paid for my tax dollars means that corporation is living “off the labor of others”.
Sewer, Water and Power Grids
Interstate Highways
Air Traffic Control
Communication and Weather Satellites
These things are all paid by our government.
If our government provides infrastructure and services that benefit the wealthy, does any sane and sensible person really have a problem providing infrastructure and services that benefit regular people?
Comment by princec — 05.16.05 @ 1:17 pm
My wife says I’m perfectly logical. As long as I’m agreeing with her.
Dell, why don’t you like this format? Seems like folks are free to make their points and to be freely countered by opposing views. Isn’t that the essence of debate?
Comment by RedBeard — 05.16.05 @ 1:20 pm
“princec,” it’s not cool to call my post a joke. If you black liberals want to comment on this blog, you’ll have to mind your manners.
I’m a bit confused about “services that benefit regular people.” Are you talking about a government check in lieu of working for a living, or a government’s function to pick up the garbage and protect citizens from criminals (police force)? Those are different “services,” you know. One involves the general welfare and the other involves paying people to sit at home, have babies, and drink beer. Learn the distinction.
As a taxpayer, I have no problem with government taking my cash to make sure the water’s clean and the roads are free of potholes. But giving MY money to an able-bodied but lazy adult? Do yourself a favor. Stop reading this blog before you have a heart attack. It’s only going to get worse.
Comment by La Shawn — 05.16.05 @ 1:22 pm
Fox’s view is how he runs his country: only help, protect, and enrich those of Spanish descent (the “pure” ones) and let the mixed people and Indians fend for themselves. All he cares about is getting that American moolah in his coffers, through any means.
Comment by mj — 05.16.05 @ 2:00 pm
Lashawn. I love your site. It’s relevant and bold.
I read some article last month about internet bullies. I thought, “what the heck….?”
But now I think I know what they were talking about. Your frequent commenter, Mr. Dell Gines. Today’s blast at white people was the latest in Mr. Gines’ projections of his own self-evident racism. How does a guy who learned his African history from an Eddie Murphy movie presume to speak for “the average white?” He says he speaks for the urban disadvantaged but does he speak to them like he speaks to you ? (Us) In that condescending psychobabble? Or does he then don his “Street creds” and “get real?’ I can say clearly that Mr. Dell -Mugabe- Gines does not speak for me.
Comment by pajamazon — 05.16.05 @ 2:53 pm
Two words stick out to me more than any in what Fox said - “not even”. To me, this clearly implies that he thinks blacks are the lowest group in society or some sort of sub-species of human beings.
Read up on Mexico’s racial hierarchy. As another commentor said, you’ve got the Europeans at the top, then mestizos, then indians.
Comment by The Lonewacko Blog — 05.16.05 @ 3:35 pm
I’m actually glad he said it, in a way. Now the gloves are off. We see exactly who he is. I think it’s an incredibly racist statement. Vincente Fox doesn’t apologize for much, so we know there must be a problem with the statement.
He’s really implying that Mexicans make more sacrifices than Blacks will, that Mexicans are somehow better because they are willing. Mexicans are better than Blacks because they, obviously have more initiative…..even if they have to break the law to do it.
LaShawn: Blacks the accept Welfare (although not exactly the most noble thing)…..haven’t broken the law.
I simply cannot imagine comparing illegal aliens who openly flout USA law…..with Blacks who havent. —And somehow trying to make the point that these law-breakers are higher up the scale, and better people than Blacks.
That’s how I interpret it.
Maybe I’m being paranoid.
Comment by Glamchild — 05.16.05 @ 3:54 pm
Whats next? the people from China will do jobs that even Mexicans won’t do?
Comment by ratso ferrari — 05.16.05 @ 4:03 pm
Eddie: You find the whole illegal alien situation “unfortunate” ????? It’s a lot more than unfortunate. It’s crippling American society, and compromising our security. We are all in jeaopardy because of these illegals,—- terrorists among them. Gotta tell ya, I find that way more than just “unfortunate”.
Welfare, on the other hand, although a big nuisance, doesn’t represent nearly the immediate danger to society.
You folks are trying to compare something legal, (even though I don’t like it) with something illegal.
Comment by Glamchild — 05.16.05 @ 4:08 pm
Remorseless
“There is no doubt that Mexicans, filled with dignity, willingness and ability to work, are doing jobs that not even blacks want to do there in the United States.‖Mexican President Vicente Fox In answer to La Shawn, of course President
Trackback by baldilocks — 05.16.05 @ 5:25 pm
Pajamazon,
I was also wondering about Dell’s track-record in urban planning? I’m all ears for any effort that is above and beyond the same-old, same-old progressive formula of throwing money at a perceived problem.
If it works, show me. Enquiring minds want to know.
Unfortunately, the record still show that “any” project sucessfully dealing with human-nature, without God in the middle of the solution is a fairy tall tale indeed.
Maybe it’s just my conservative/fundamental mentality kicking in whenever someone pumps their Christian cred and in the same maintain that God need not inform their worldview. Would that logic be synonymous with the PC “white guy with a black friend”?
Comment by Andy — 05.16.05 @ 6:18 pm
By way of Lashawn Barber, Hubes Cube blogs about an effort taking place by several Penn State students to raise $10 million dollars to research American White racism. Apparently they didn’t get the memo about how we already know that there are racist whites in this country and probably always will be. Not only that but there are actually racists blacks, hispanics, and Asians as well. (Gasp!)…
Comment by Jerry McClellan — 05.16.05 @ 6:37 pm
Even though this is about Vicente Fox and his idiocy, I’m still waiting for the rest of the “slam whitey” comments to come out.
There are two outrages here. One, that he equivocates racial supremacy here because of his perception about blacks in the United States. Two, that our government will continue to engage in policies (like not sealing the border, not punishing law breaking corporations) that will reinforce his said stereotype.
This border thing is still about more than economics. There’s still a major security issue here!!!
Comment by Chris Roberts — 05.16.05 @ 6:56 pm
See that’s why I don’t like online debates. There’s always someone that’s going to take your words out of context or read more into certain words than intended.
Glamchild - When I said “unfortunate” I was referring to the whole illegal immigration thing. Without going into too much detail, I feel that its unfortunate that those looking for opportunity and a better life are doing so illegally AND its unfortunate that our government isn’t doing more to protect our borders from drug smugglers and terrorists who are freely exploiting this weakness in our national security.
Also, I chose not to focus on the issue of illegal immigration in my comments because, as it relates to LaShawn’s commentary, the main issue here is Fox’s comments and NOT just illegal immigration.
With exception to the “not even” part, I happen to agree with Fox’s comments. Years ago many of the fast food, janitorial, and what some consider to be “menial” jobs were done by black workers. Now many of those jobs are performed by Hispanics. I see nothing wrong with someone working hard to make a living however the laws of the land should still be followed - even the immigration laws.
Comment by Eddie — 05.16.05 @ 7:03 pm
Where is the Black Caucus? Where’s Jessie and all the other professionally offended?
I guess someone isn’t paying attention.
Comment by DarkStar — 05.16.05 @ 8:32 pm
Where is the Black Caucus? Where’s Jessie and all the other professionally offended?
My guess would be they’re hiding out with Dubya and many of the Republicans. They’re all afraid of pissing of the hispanic voting block.
I may hang with the wrong crowd, but the south and central american imigrants I am friends with are tougher on immigration than Minutemen. But then, they are all legal, and most did a stint in the Army or USMC.
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 05.16.05 @ 9:06 pm
Mr. Fox reminds me of the late Jimmy the Greek. I didn’t get all fired when Jimmy made the statement that scuttled his career and I won’t get worked up over this one. Having had a tad more experience with Black folk in these here United States, about the only thing I have seen Mexicans do that I haven’t seen Blacks do on a large scale is sell fruit at intersections. The operative phrase is “on a large scale” as I have seen some unlicensed street vendors selling everything from newspapers to Krispy Kremes. Shoot, if I think hard enough I may remember a fruit seller or two also. I am not not mad at statements made in ignorance (usually). Well, as long as no one gets killed because of them.
Comment by Rafael Daniel — 05.16.05 @ 9:50 pm
Vicente Fox: Illegal Aliens “doing jobs that not even blacks want to do “
Vicente Fox has a way with words. In a meeting with Texas business people in Mexico he said illegal aliens are doing the jobs that even blacks in the US won’t do. Now along with all the comments that Americans…
Trackback by Diggers Realm — 05.16.05 @ 9:51 pm
Fox has apologized for his comments again, but this time he’s done it to media hogs Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Shall I laugh or cry?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050517/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_fox_blacks_6
Comment by RedBeard — 05.16.05 @ 9:55 pm
So much for the, “Where are they…” comments…
Comment by DarkStar — 05.16.05 @ 10:14 pm
Good one DS.
But why was Sharpton retreating from his initial outrage? He seemed much more concilliatory in his later remarks than when the story first broke.
El Presidente loves giving it to the U.S. every chance he can. Our leadership is too gutless to do anything about it.
Comment by Chris Roberts — 05.16.05 @ 10:23 pm
The government and society in general in Mexico is dominated by tall European-types along highly stratified lines. The shorter, darker Aztecs (and other dark-skinned peoples) occupy the lowest stratum. I guess El Presidente was merely attempting to extrapolate the conditions in Mexico to that here.
Still, it is true that his people will do the kinds of work that our people won’t do. But remember, it is not merely the kinds of work that is done here, but the rate of pay. The massive immigrant population serves to depress wages here, hindering the attempts of certain people (generally Blacks) to earn a decent living and rise to the ranks of the middle class. In this, Fox’s comments have some truth (of course, he is on the wrong side).
“Together we can make it… from the poor side of town”
Not if Vicente Fox has anything to do with it!
Comment by Mark Slater — 05.16.05 @ 11:48 pm
[…] t to do there in the United States.†Fox apologized somewhat for the comment. However, La Shawn Barber argued that an apology wasn’t necessary. I beg to differ. Vicente F […]
Pingback by dcthornton.com » Vicente Fox, Racist — 05.17.05 @ 12:52 am
Around The ‘Sphere
Our occasional linkfest directing you to posts from ALL OVER the Internet. Links are NOT restricted to one political viewpoint and don’t necessarily refl…
Trackback by The Moderate Voice — 05.17.05 @ 1:57 am
Mexican President Vicente Fox Apologizes To Jesse Jackson And Al Sharpton For His Racist Comments
A few days ago Mexican President Vicente Fox said illegal aliens were “doing jobs that not even blacks want to do” and I reported about it here. Fox has repeatedly refused to apologize for his comments. On Saturday Jesse Jackson…
Trackback by Diggers Realm — 05.17.05 @ 2:34 am
Many may feel that President Fox’s comments were inappropriate or even racist. I’ll provide the benefit of the doubt and say there is merit there until we know his true feelings about American Black people. On the other hand, he is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT about Mexicans doing the jobs that Blacks, poor Whites and other economically depressed citizens of this nation have been ALLOWED to avoid thanks to Democrat inspired welfare and other public assistance handouts.
Democrats created this culture of dependency when their revered FDR, the Father of American Socialism thought it was a good idea to just redistribute the wealth of the working and simply give away that hard earned money in the form of “gubmint†programs to America’s lazy, worthless and good for nothing.
When I see Blacks lining up to pick strawberries and oranges in the field and when I see Blacks lining up for toilet cleaning jobs or waiting to be issued their weedeaters in the hot morning sun rather than standing in lines with cupped hands for their next welfare or WIC check, then I will think otherwise. Garbage trucks don’t count. They are HIGHLY paid UNION jobs.
Vincente Fox’s comments may have been insulting to some, but they were far from inaccurate. I’m sure Mr. Bill Cosby concurs.
Comment by Raymond — 05.17.05 @ 7:31 am
They are HIGHLY paid UNION jobs.
Well, given the troubles I had with getting private garbage collectors to collect my trash because the NON-UNION workers wanted more money, I have to say that the across the board brush is incorrect.
when I see Blacks lining up for toilet cleaning jobs or waiting to be issued their weedeaters in the hot morning sun rather than standing in lines with cupped hands for their next welfare or WIC check, then I will think otherwise
Given that I see Blacks doing maid and janitorial work, given that before an INS raid, fast food places in an area I worked was staffed by Latinos, and then after that, in a matter of 2 days, it was staffed by mainly Black workers, I’d say you’re wrong.
Comment by DarkStar — 05.17.05 @ 8:24 am
What has Bush said about this comment?
How about Condi Rice?
Comment by DarkStar — 05.17.05 @ 8:32 am
La Shawn:
Vincente Fox has insulted Black Amnericans, and what are they doing to counter this? They are doing exactly what he has implied - acting as second class citizens in Los Angeles.
Yes - it’s true - the racial tension is so great in LA that Black politicians have endorsed a Mexican American that attended some Mickey Mouse law school and failed the American Bar Exam four times.
With such a waste of educational funds, does anyone doubt CA is in financial trouble? And Black Californians are buying four more years of the same.
Comment by Frank Zavisca — 05.17.05 @ 8:35 am
Darkstar. You’re 12 hours late.
Comment by pajamazon — 05.17.05 @ 8:36 am
Dark Star,
Let’s not confuse the mostly Carribean workers of African descent with black skin with average every day American blacks.
The hotel maids and janotors you speak of are more than likely Haitian. Well at least if you are in Florida where I am.
The bottom line is that if ALL people receiving “free” public assitance are instead required to EARN their keep and accept ANY job in WORKING their way up the ladder like the rest of us, then we wouldn’t be having this argument and the Mexicans would be staying home.
Comment by Raymond — 05.17.05 @ 9:18 am
The hotel maids and janotors you speak of are more than likely Haitian. Well at least if you are in Florida where I am.
Not in my area.
then we wouldn’t be having this argument and the Mexicans would be staying home.
Not true. Federal contracts have been raided by the former INS, and in doing so, their workers cleared out.
A friend of mine went to a spot where contractors pick up day laborers. He was never chosen. The Latino men were always chosen.
Another friend is a steel worker. His bosses are hiring Latino men, at a lower wages then they hire Americans. They bid on contracts based on the Latino wages. So, guess what cycle they are now in while my friend has to tell American workers no jobs are open?
Comment by DarkStar — 05.17.05 @ 9:41 am
Again Darkstar, you can give ONE example or one point in time instance to try and make your point, but the fact that remains is Blacks in America have been enculturated with dependency and a very weak work ethic.
Hard work was replaced with “gimme gimme” programs in order to subjugate us before the leaders of the race industry in the Democrat Party, NAACP and Congressional Black Caucus.
I can almost guarantee you that if Blacks started showing up at these work sites and for lack of a better methodology which I forsee being employed, started “beating down” some Mexicans in line taking their jobs, this illegal immigration issue would largely disappear.
Blacks don’t work these jobs because they do not have to! Why work in the hot noon day sun when you can go beggin’ to the government and recieve a fat check to DO NOTHING?
“FORCE” Americans to work for their handouts and the Mexicans will have no filthy or low level jobs to come to , thus keeping them home to help overthrow their own corrupt government and make life better down there.
Comment by Raymond — 05.17.05 @ 10:18 am
As I wrote to Juliette Ocheng,
Having traveled around a lot of the world, international racism makes anything outside of a Klan rally, a Nation of Islam meeting, or a get together by the mECha/Free Aztalon boys look mild. Speaking of the last…
LA Shawn, few people here in the US realize that Mexico is at war with us. This war started in the 18oo’s and it has never really ended. It has only gotten more and more fierce in recent years as the Mexicans have gotten away with more and more hostile acts without us responding, because people here do not realize the war is happening.
The Mexicans have a very simple goal and it is this: At the end of the military part of this conflict Mexico lost what is now Texas and the province of Aztalan which comprises everything from El Paso to San Diego and north to the bottom of Oregon. They want it back. They believe that it is not the corruption of the (white, European Spanish and deeply racist) minority that is robbing the country blind (they have lots of riches and never share with their brown-skinned poor) but that “EL Norte Americano Gringo’s” have stolen their countries’ future and the only way to get it back is thru invasion and by screwing us over using our own democratic institutions to take back what is theirs.
La Shawn, if we don’t soon wake up to this situation we are goint to lose a big part of our country without ever firing a shot.
If it was up to me we would build a wall with machine guns nests every 1/4 mile BEHIND the minefields!! The only people who should be allowed to come here are those who applied legally and were vetted legally to be an asset to this country, not vengeful alien invaders bent on destroying our nation.
Comment by wayne — 05.17.05 @ 11:03 am
Fox doesn’t apologize to any other Americans because his economy is being propped up by remittances from illegal workers in the U.S.
Comment by mj — 05.17.05 @ 11:56 am
In light of what Raymond said: American black people have definitely been a victim of racism, especially the type that emanates from the Democratic party in the form of welfare programs, dependency, and manipulation. Compare Jesse Jackson’s actions to the religious leaders in the rioting Muslim countries.
What’s sickening is that some black leaders complain about Mexicans not because they’re taking jobs, but because they’re taking away government benefits. But I have a solution: the employers and farmers should go to the ghetto and announce jobs opening up, and see if there is a response. Then if there are no takers, they can legimately say that they’re not willing to work.
Comment by mj — 05.17.05 @ 12:20 pm
Raymond and M.J.:
You’re missing the point. The welfare state surely is a great evil, robbing men of thier manliness and replacing it with gov’t dependence.
But, there is something else at play. No, if Black people “worked in the fields in the sun” like the Mexicans the immigration problem would NOT disappear, since the immigration problem is not merely a question of demand, but of our managerial elite and its quest to drive down wages.
No, a Black man would rather not work as the Mexicans do; but neither should he inasmuch as, in our society, such work is not worth the pay offered (and wouldn’t be, if not for the endless supply of cheap labor). Our lower class, those who strive to make it into the middle class, are barely served by accepting a position the wages of which has been artifically driven down by the throng of immigrants.
Immigration: It truly does hurt the struggling Black family the most, all so our corporate and political leaders can add a little more to their pockets.
Comment by Mark Slater — 05.17.05 @ 1:03 pm
Having traveled around a lot of the world, international racism makes anything outside of a Klan rally, a Nation of Islam meeting, or a get together by the mECha/Free Aztalon boys look mild. Speaking of the last…
Few people here in the US realize that Mexico is at war with us. This war started in the 18oo’s and it has never really ended. It has only gotten more and more fierce in recent years as the Mexicans have gotten away with more and more hostile acts without us responding because people here do not realize the war is happening.
The Mexicans have a very simple goal and the goal is this: At the end of the military part of this conflict Mexico lost what is now Texas and the province of Aztalan which comprises everything from El Paso to San Diego and north to the bottom of Oregon. They want it back. They believe that it is not the corruption of the (white European and deeply racist) minority that is robbing the country blind (they have lots of riches and never share with their brown-skinned poor) but that “EL Norte Americano Gringo’s” have stolen their countries’ future and the only way to get it back is thru invasion and by screwing us over using our own democratic institutions to take back what is theirs.
I we don’t soon wake up to this situation we are goint to lose a big part of our country without ever firing a shot.
We should build a wall with machine guns nests every 1/4 mile BEHIND the minefields!!
I’m not anti-immigrant. My wife is an immigrant. Lots of my friends are immigrants. LEGAL IMMIGRANTS who went thru all of the steps and BS to get here and who work hard and pay taxes and are proud of being here. It is not fair to them and damned dangerous to all of the rest of us. We can not continue to allow an enemy nation to invade our nation with the intent of destroying it and all of those (including Bush!) are committing an act of treason in continuing to continence this invasion.
Comment by wayne — 05.17.05 @ 1:23 pm
Let me make a few clarificiations as a Californian who grew up in Virginia and move to CA in 1994.
People think that there are just a few illegal immigrants coming here to do strawberry picking and other farm labor and that’s it. People also point to the story about Walmart and generally smear big business (Fortune 500 companies?) with hiring illegal immigrants.
These generalizations aren’t helpful to the debate. It would be helpful to understand the illegal immigrant problem better.
1) Walmart and Fortune 500 companies aren’t hiring illegal immigrants by a factor of 99.9% (I won’t say 100%). The Walmart story showed that it was out of an employee base of 1.5 million a SUBCONTRACTOR who had hired the illegal aliens and that Walmart settled in the case because they didn’t do the due diligence to determine whether or not the 300 employees of the SUBCONTRACTOR were hiring legal citizens. Walmart due to the settlement has beefed up it’s diligence with respect to making sure those who are hired as subcontractors are legitimate and they are also changing who does their floors from subcontractors to employees. It is imperative for those who like to throw stones to understand that the Fortune 500 companies are under intense scrutiny by almost every government oversight entity. Finances and safety and hiring and environment etc are overseen.
2) The laborers who do come to work the fields are generally referred to as the REASON why we have an illegal immigrant problem. This is not even 5% of the problem. There are people who come to CA and other state farms to do work and then bring money back to Mexico or even stay in the U.S. illegally.
3) 95% of the problem is just people not respecting the border and coming to be in America the land of opportunity.
The PROBLEM is that there is a WAY to come here legally. This country allows MORE legal immigrants than all other countries combined and we in the interest of national security and other factors should not allow illegal immigrations.
The 95% issue is what I’ve seen. There are whole areas that are multiple square miles large that are filled with illegal immigrants in CA. There are areas that do not resemble normal suburbia America. Crammed with multiple families per house, zoning laws not followed, areas where English is rarely spoken if at all. This is the 95% issue.
The jails in CA are filled with 25% illegal immigrants costing over 1 billion per year. (CA’s budget is 80 billion per year so 1 billion is a big chunk).
The schools in these areas of CA drag down the CA average with respect to school performance. Where as my daughter tests in the 91% range in the NATIONAL tests, and reads at the 6th grade level when she is only in 3rd grade, it is because we aren’t in these areas that I’ve traveled to. The education budget in CA is 50% of CA’s budget (40 billion) and I would guess that illegal immigrants (this isn’t allowed to be documented I don’t think) is a large drain on the education dollar.
There is business after business in these areas because illegal immigrants are fairly hard working and entrepreneurs by spirit and nature but I’m seriously doubting if they are illegal immigrants that they are following all of the laws and paying the IRS and Franchise Tax Board all that I pay (as I own a business too). If people break the rules to come here, why not break the rules to remain here?
The over 10+ illegal immigrants who have come to the U.S. in the past decade are not being hired by Fortune 500 companies or all working in the fields. They do use resources in the U.S. that cost us lots of taxpayer dollars and they do not adhere to our standards of minimum wage, environmental laws, OSHA regs, etc. etc.
An amnesty type program will only exacerbate the problem as it sends a signal that if you come we will welcome you.
We need to get serious about national security, know who is in our country and we need be fair and equal about all of our business regulations and tax laws and all other laws. We can’t have two countries in one. It’ll lead to unrest. No matter how liberal a liberal wants to be he/she has to realize the harm that is being perpetuated by treating a whole set of people as outsiders who don’t have to adhere, comply or be treated the same.
Vicente Fox’s comments should be a wake up call to everyone about how he views people and how harmful and hurful the continuation of illegal immigrants will be to this country.
Comment by Baklava — 05.17.05 @ 1:52 pm
The 4th to the last paragraph was supposed to be “10+ million illegal immigrants”
Comment by Baklava — 05.17.05 @ 2:10 pm
Right On Vincente’ Fox
As a president and observer of America the man has the right to express his opinion any way he wants to especially when it comes to blacks and how they are percieved.
Who died and said no one can speak ill or honestly about black culture, images or people. We do not have the divine right to not be observed or criticized. Jews may have cornered the market on guilt but black Americans don’t have a leg to stand on.
It didn’t take long for the networks to dig up “Heckel and Jeckel†for the national interviews. I’m referring to former ex-con Al “Tawanna Brawley†Shapton as Heckel and the ever annoying Jesse “Banged any Good Secretaries Lately†Jackson as our second fence sitter waiting for the corn to pop. As usual these good ‘reverend’ Negroes were ready for their sound bites full of their usual reactionary babble. I see we’ll have to put up with a couple days of them spouting off about nothing as though someone had steps on one of their ‘less that virtuous’ robs.
Most importantly though, President Fox certain has the right to make observations that we know are true. Our uneducated young men are not going to clean offices at night, our ‘baby’s mammy’s are not working at McDonalds –not for what they pay. It cheaper to sell drugs, sell yourself, or get you some benefits from the government.
American Blacks don’t realize how good they have it compared to real poverty as it exists in the world. To the laborers who understand the value of working and have seen what it is like to have no opportunity for a job my hats off to you. Now either get a green card or make your way back across the border.
Raymon Murchison
A blast from the past! Welcome to the blog, Raymon. - Admin
Comment by Raymon Murchison — 05.17.05 @ 5:20 pm
“American Blacks don’t realize how good they have it…..”—-Raymon Murchison
And so, they need Vincente Fox to inform them?
What qualifies Vincente Fox to lecture American Blacks on anything?
Yes, I guess he does have a right to express an opinion. But, Blacks also have a right to tell him to take a hike, and mind his own business.
Comment by Glamchild — 05.17.05 @ 5:54 pm
Mark: I am totally for black people getting fair wages. Believe me, when I see a black person working in a job, I’m incredibly happy, because their job wasn’t thrown in the trash for an illegal worker. If there’s one issue that has bugged me for years, it’s illegal immigration, and you can see the negative effects of it in the city. And one thing that people don’t talk about: legal immigrants who milk our welfare state.
Comment by mj — 05.17.05 @ 8:06 pm
Well said Mr. Murchison. Even Baklava made some relevent points.
Again, the reality that created Fox’s comments stem from the modern day version of slavery inflicted on Blacks by the so liberal or “progressive” Democrat establishment in order to maintain control over us. A condition we have fully embraced. We are second class citizens STILL because we buy into the helpless victim mentality.
They (Democrats) thought they were giving us a leg up, but instead they simply and MASTERfully prolonged and redefined the definition of slavery in America.
Fox was and is still correct UNTIL we fully understand the self-inflicted factors that generate the world’s view of black-skinned Americans.
Comment by Raymond — 05.17.05 @ 8:12 pm
but the fact that remains is Blacks in America have been enculturated with dependency and a very weak work ethic.
Then why is it a fact that the poverty rate has decreased to a point where it is now ~ 24% when it used to be ~ 60%?
Blacks don’t work these jobs because they do not have to! Why work in the hot noon day sun when you can go beggin’ to the government and recieve a fat check to DO NOTHING?
What is the percentage of Blacks on welfare?
Compare that to the percentage of Blacks who are not on welfare.
Why is it that Blacks are leading in creating small businesses?
You are full of it.
Comment by DarkStar — 05.17.05 @ 8:49 pm
Amen, Dark Star. There is, in my opinion, a major difference between RESPONSIBLY critiquing Black America and demonizing the (what is the buzzword today?) the so-called underclass.
I’d be the first to admit there are some seriously unmotivated folks that are “darker than blue.” I also happen to believe that they are in the minority. It is disturbing when the things you hear from supposed conservatives are indistinguishable from KKK or Christian Identity propaganda. But when you are totally disconnected from those that you criticize, it is MUCH easier to hate them.
Still this is the US and freedom of speech is one of the bedrocks of this republic. I am sure we all agree on that. Since we do, allow me to say this: try ENGAGING a few of those that you (seem to) despise. Maybe your example can motivate someone to do better. Maybe after you realize that they are just as human as you are you won’t look down your nose at them.
Like I said earlier, Mr. Fox and his words don’t move me. He does not know Black America. However, I am moved by those that say they do yet show such disdain for the ones that–for whatever reason–find themselves on the bottom. THAT is troublesome, much more so than ANYTHING Vicente Fox could EVER say. It just makes me wonder…
Comment by Rafael Daniel — 05.17.05 @ 9:28 pm
A more accurate assessment might be that there is a concerted effort by the left to enculturate (what a great word) all Americans with a dependency complex and a distain for the work ethic. Thank goodness most folks, of every race and ethnicity, are not buying it.
Fox is just a cheap opportunistic politician, and his words mean little one way or the other. If he’s right, so what? And if he’s wrong, who cares?
The only thing that makes Fox important in any way is the kid glove treatment he gets from our elected leaders. The guy with whom we must be most concerned is our own President Bush, who has much to explain to the nation about his abject failure on the illegal immigration issue. I voted for him twice, and would again given the same choices, but on this issue I’m sorely disappointed with him.
Comment by RedBeard — 05.17.05 @ 9:40 pm
“It is disturbing when the things you hear from supposed conservatives are indistinguishable from KKK or Christian Identity propaganda. But when you are totally disconnected from those that you criticize, it is MUCH easier to hate them.”
Plenty of people reading would categorize that statement as race-baiting.
Yes, blacks are often unfairly portrayed as being the entire underclass of America. However, we sure don’t see any stories about the white underclass on network news.
Which groups advocates speak louder and get more airtime?
A lot of this critique is relative to two things:
1. The airplay that African-American leaders get discussing the plight of the African-American underclass in relation to the airplay about the entire group of economically disadvantaged.
2. Statistics showing that African-Americans have proportionally larger numbers in the lowest economic classes instead of showing all statistics of those in poverty.
Somehow, stating the fact that more whites in this country are underpriviliged and in poverty doesn’t seem to play well at 5 or 6:00.
There have been tremendous strides made in alleviating the poverty situation of African-Americans in this country. Yet these often go unnoticed by those in the intellectual think tanks or those responsible for putting out the news we digest. They think they are helping with all their righteous talk and crusading and insistence that freedom comes from a government check. Yet they are guilty of reinforcing a sad stereotype. How come no one takes them to task?
One other point. Does anyone stop and think that the near 70% illegitimacy rate in the African-American community actually spurs on many to think that those babies are going straight onto welfare?
Or how about the students I teach that state with pride their getting a free ride on the government via Section 8 housing, WIC, food stamps and checks? And the fact that they don’t care about getting a job. They figure, why should I, I’ve got the government taking care of it?
I know that doesn’t represent all African-Americans, but these are valid issues that many people bring up. Does that align me and others with the KKK? Ridiculous if you think so.
Remember, the negative always sells better than the positive. Why else do murders and kidnappings lead on the evening news?
Comment by Chris Roberts — 05.17.05 @ 10:05 pm
M.J. Thanks for clarifying. You are very right!
Comment by Mark Slater — 05.17.05 @ 10:24 pm
However, we sure don’t see any stories about the white underclass on network news.
And that is the fault of Blacks?
Which groups advocates speak louder and get more airtime?
Louder is not the issue, airtime is the issue. So, again, that is the fault of Blacks?
A lot of this critique is relative to two things:
1. The airplay that African-American leaders get discussing the plight of the African-American underclass in relation to the airplay about the entire group of economically disadvantaged.
2. Statistics showing that African-Americans have proportionally larger numbers in the lowest economic classes instead of showing all statistics of those in poverty.
Yet the same stats show most Blacks aren’t in the lowest economic classes.
Yet these often go unnoticed by those in the intellectual think tanks or those responsible for putting out the news we digest.
And that is the fault of Blacks?
How come no one takes them to task?
I have. Yet no one notices that one. Conservatives do, yet they turn around and do the same.
One other point. Does anyone stop and think that the near 70% illegitimacy rate in the African-American community actually spurs on many to think that those babies are going straight onto welfare?
So, the fact that most Blacks are not on welfare is irrelevent?
Or how about the students I teach that state with pride their getting a free ride on the government via Section 8 housing, WIC, food stamps and checks?
How about the man in the suit with questions marks proclaiming to the U.S. population how THEY TO can get money from the government? How about the politicians who “go back home” to brag about the amount of pork they are carrying with them?
And the fact that they don’t care about getting a job. They figure, why should I, I’ve got the government taking care of it?
I see too many kids who, when given the options, leap for it. I also see kids who will play like they are thugs, when they don’t have the heart. When pressed, they “punk down” in a minute.
I’m positive about the situation.
Comment by DarkStar — 05.17.05 @ 11:00 pm
Plenty of people would be dead wrong, Chris.
There is an emerging cottage (notice I didn’t say “cabin”) industry of commentators that think dissing Blacks is the same as being honest about Blacks. I have no issue with criticism. Constructive criticism is healthy. However, I do dislike demonizing diabtribes. There is a MAJOR difference.
Actually, I wasn’t referring to any comment you made Chris. It was two other guys whose venom and vitriol got my attention. The TONE of their comments disturbed me. They spoke and I felt the hate in their words. It came across very clearly. I feel very safe in assuming they don’t interact with those that they are characterizing. If I am wrong, I am wrong.
Comment by Rafael Daniel — 05.17.05 @ 11:25 pm
DS-
Follow along with me here as I comment in reply to your retort. I’m not blaming blacks for the problems with airtime, statistics, etc. I see you and others taking people to task all the time. My point is that “white conservatives” can’t continually be the proverbial red-headed step-child when it comes to commenting on these issues. I, and plenty of “white conservatives” work exhaustively to present strategies to get ahead, achieve and be self reliant. Right now, “hood rich” has a lot more cred with the kids I work with.
Next. Most blacks not being on welfare is not irrelevant. I think I was alluding to the fact that the failure to accurately report this is a problem. Who do we blame for that? You can’t put all of that on Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. Try NYT, WaPo, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, Fox…they all get it wrong. I was definitely not blaming blacks there, nor elsewhere.
In regards to my comment on illegitimacy, you have to agree that known behaviors do reinforce stereotypes. Everyday I here from blacks that since I’ve got a Bush/Cheney sticker on my truck, I have to be some redneck/KKK/racist. Commenters are on here all the time telling me that I’m chillin with the KKK. Each day I have to prove the black community in the neighborhood I work in otherwise. Other than yourself, who is out there tellling the world that not every kid born to a single mom is on welfare? Can’t you see my point?
Moving on, those Matthew Lesko ads burn me up too. I hate that guy. Every time I see one of his ads I want to stick my hands through the TV and strangle his annoying self. I’m no fan of those who want a free ride. I’ve even written on my blog about the disdain I have for the State Legislators down here in Texas who screwed up the Education Funding bill so they could brag about the highway dollars they were bringing back home.
Finally, yeah, I see a few kids punk out, but I’m deadly serious about the kids in my jobs neighborhood who want nothing else but to be “hood rich.”
Comment by Chris Roberts — 05.17.05 @ 11:48 pm
Raf-
Unfortunately, I can’t be in your shoes to understand how you can recognize hate in what others write. As I alluded to above, I grow weary of being lumped in said cottage industry. Call me defensive, I guess.
I find it very invigorating that we can come here and exchange ideas. I learn a lot, and it helps me greatly in the so-called “ghetto” school I work in.
I guess I’m too naive to recognize the difference between criticism and “dissing.”
Comment by Chris Roberts — 05.17.05 @ 11:54 pm
Dark Star,
Maybe I read it differently than you, but I don’t think Chris Roberts Post was faulting Blacks, I took it that the point was negative sells.
“I have. Yet no one notices that one. Conservatives do, yet they turn around and do the same.”
I have, I have been reading your site for a couple of weeks. I agree with you on alot, disagree with you on alot. But I enjoy it.
PS: LaShawn is still my must read, though.
Comment by W.NM. — 05.18.05 @ 12:34 am
Naivete isn’t always a bad thing Chris. Visionaries HAVE to be somewhat naive or they’d never see their dreams realized. You are a teacher. To me that conjures up an image of a dreamer/visionary, because you have to have unbridled faith in your student’s ability to learn AND in your ability to teach them. Despite the crazy things you have heard your students say, you haven’t spoken of them as if they were garbage. You haven’t taken your education and gone into something that may be more financially rewarding. You have been stubborn enough to continue because you believe that those kids in that “ghetto” school are WORTH your time, effort and attention. So, to you I say continue to be naive enough to love those kids and care about whether they learn toread and write and critcally think, et cetera.
Because you are so engaged/invested in the lives of those students, you will have the distinct pleasure of having some of them thank you later in life for giving them the example/inspiration they needed to overcome whatever weight their environment was trying throw around their neck. So don’t feel defensive. You are doing a good thing by loving enough to teach. Teaching is certainly a labor of love. Unfortunately it may be more labor than love in some inner-city schools. I applaud you for your sacrifice. The fact that you are making that sacrifice puts you in a MUCH different category than those that would heap their odious and malevolent grandiloquence on those they obviously care nothing about. Peace.
Comment by Rafael Daniel — 05.18.05 @ 8:22 am
W.MN, I wasn’t faulting Chris. Reading it now, it didn’t come across as I intended, but my intent was to piggy back on what he wrote, except for the comments about students.
Comment by DarkStar — 05.18.05 @ 8:41 am
I read on another blog someone who said fox’s comment is “not mean–if it’s true” and that blacks in America are fully “Americanized” and thus should get over it. Well if black are SO Americanized, why didn’t Fox simply say Mexican do jobs that “OTHER AMERICANS” won’t do. It is another example of the disingenuous DISENFRACHISEMENT of blacks in America.
Comment by Julie Bayley — 05.18.05 @ 9:25 am
DS-
I didn’t take it as jumping my case. I thought we were really on the same page.
Rafael-
Thanks for the uplifting words. We got our TAKS (that’s the Texas standardized exit test) scores back today and there’s a lot more work left to do next school year.
One question for anybody to answer: How do we make math and science a more pressing concern to our minority students? In my opinion, success in those fields is a much better way to good earnings down the road.
Comment by Chris Roberts — 05.18.05 @ 4:31 pm
Reaction around the web has been varied, but some of the best can be found at La Shawn Barber’s Corner, Booker Rising and The New Leadership Blog.
Pingback by Ohio For Blackwell — 05.18.05 @ 5:41 pm
Speaking as someone who is half Mexican and grew up in Latin America, I will say that Latin America is the most racist place on earth. Being black is very bad in Mexico ( in all Latin America actually)!! Speaking as someone who looks like a mulata, my mother is a dark mulata Puertorican-and this comes out very stongly in me, Mexico is probably ties in the racist arena with Argentina and Brazil, both very racist countries. It is engrained very deeply in the Mexican culture that dark skin is bad and black is the very lowest. Just tune in to your local univision channel and see all the fair-skinned Mexican’s/ Latin Americans who can all pass for white-white is beautiful in Mexico.
Think about it, Puerto Rico, a country with a prominent black population, yet very few Black actors or models. Have you ever seen a black Miss Puertorico? Have you ever seen a black Miss Venezuela? They always fall in the Mestizo or White category.
Back in the ‘olden days’ when Spain first conquered Mexico and claimed it as ‘New Spain’ there was a caste system based on skin color and pureness of the Spanish blood. It kind of went like this:
Spaniards-at the very top, pure spanish blood
criollos-Spaniards born in Mexico
Mestizos-all mexicans are mixed, half-indian/half spanish
indians-low
mulatos-mixed black/indian/european,lower
blacks-lowest
And unfortunately it is still exactly this way today!! Of course there were a few Africans that were brought to Mexico. In fact every once in a while I’ll see someone who’s African blood has resurfaced and it’s very obvious to me that they have African blood in them. In addition, there are no natural born blacks in Mexico. Mexico is indeed very racist. Then again all Latin America is and it needs to change.
Comment by Natalia — 05.18.05 @ 8:05 pm
Race relations at SNL
The best comment from SNL this week:
And I have never once thought that a cue ball is the same as a Mexican just because the harder you hit it, the more English it picks up.
…as said by Rev. Al Sharpton (portrayed by Kenan Thompson) accepting …
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