Gerardo Flores was accused of causing the miscarriage by stepping on his girlfriend’s stomach. He was prosecuted under the state’s new fetal protection law….Erica Basoria acknowledged asking Flores to help end her pregnancy. But the 17-year-old can’t be prosecuted because of her legal right to abortion. (Source)
When you reject moral absolutes, which apply to us all, in favor of satanic “relativism,” this is the result. An unborn baby is human only if his mother wants him or if the father kills him. He commits murder; she commits “choice.”
If the father wants to save his baby’s life but the mother elects to have the unwanted foreign growth scraped from her womb, he’s out of luck. That’s the unsustainable, contradictory, insane, incomprehensible rationale behind legalize abortion.
May they all get what they deserve.
The tension is the result of conservatives trying to protect unborn life and liberals determined to protect “choice.” How will it be resolved? Just short of making all fetal killings illegal, I don’t know.
Update (6/8): Now that I think about it, godless leftism no longer embraces moral relativism (the view that my moral values are just as good as yours; moral equivalency), as irrational as the concept is. They downright demonize conservative Christians and everything we believe. We’re targets of mockery and scorn and dismissed as intolerant kooks, although they have no logically consistent worldview of their own. You’d see aliens landing on the Mall before you hear a leftist say that Christians’ moral values should be respected.
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That is sick.
Renee,
It’s sick, but unfortunately it is the logical conclusion of a perverse law.
So true Broken.
I’m just….dumbfounded. He goes to jail (rightly so) for killing an unborn baby. She gets off scott-free for killing an unbor….oops, sorry, for “exercising her right to choose”.
ugh.
Yeah, if they send her to jail that would throw a monkey wrench into that “other choice” law…
How does the saying go… “two wrongs don’t make a right”?
..and it won’t stop there. None of the people who wish to push for legalized marijuana seem willing to admit that one of the consequences of it’s increased usage/availability WILL be a rise in the pregnancy and abortion rates.
The table is being set for an ugly banquet.
I’m reminded of the story (parable?) about the philosophy professor who makes the statement before his class, “There is no absolute truth!”
One of his students raises his hand and says, “Professor, are you sure about that?”
“Absolutely!”
The banquet table stinks – and I think the odor is coming from that steaming pile of “relativism”.
Remember: young people who have yet to take a position on abortion are looking at this decision while they are making up their minds. Many will see the contradiction.
The purpose of the law?
La Shawn, you said it – incomprehensible!!! Satan is working very hard to scramble peoples gray matter.
Results of the online poll asking:
SURVEY
Do you think this 19-year-old’s punishment is fair?
Yes, it’s fair. 20577 33%
No, it’s too harsh. 37595 60%
No, it’s not harsh enough. 4850 8%
While the poll isn’t scientific, I see a pattern with the voting patterns (ratings) of legislatures in Congress
Here is ratings info:
1) http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?sig_id=003432M
2) http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?sig_id=003163M
3) http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?sig_id=002931M
4) http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?sig_id=002486M
5)
Amazingly no one has mentioned the injustice of the result. While he stepped on her, she was punching herself. How can one say, with certainty, who caused the miscarriage?
Very sad.
the old adage of “if you don’t stand for something you will fall for anything’ comes briefly to mind as does the complete sadness of the entire situation. but we cant say “im surprised” now can we …. when situational ethics is the norm mode of life nothing should surprise us.
This has slid pretty far down the slippery slope of “our bodies, ourselves.” How much farther will we slide?
The great by product of moral relativism. Perfected by our European friends and imported to America one court case at a time.
Words do no justice to my outrage!
I wonder if the verdict will be upheld on appeal?
If only there was an accessible abortion clinic.
Michael! Haven’t “seen” you in awhile.
Perhaps the case will be appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court, where they will have to deal with the issue of legalized child killing. I hope the days ahead are perilous for Roe. Remove the issue from the feds and send it back to the states.
“If only there was an accessible abortion clinic.”
What are you thinking, Actus?
From the NOW site:
“Since its founding in 1966, NOW’s goal has been to take action to bring about equality for all women.”
Sorry but I couldn’t find the statement that says “unless you disagree with our liberal views”
Still haven’t seen how they reconcile this with the treatment of both Brown and Owens over the past four years…
I don’t even need to post the NAAACP mission statement (just another waste of space)
Sorry…
the above was meant for the JRB post but I guess it works here also
Inconsistency. Pro-aborts want to be consistent, yet they are stuck with the reality that abortion kills a human being, and angry men kill women that won’t submit to killing a human being. Homicide is the number one cause of maternal death in America for this reason. So- the pro-aborts claim to be pro-woman and can’t politically turn a blind eye to this maternal murder crisis, yet they won’t budge on child-murder. And this is what happens.
Actus,
You know it would really make for a clean neat kill if the government just decided who should have an abortion and who should not. That would be as neat as a planned economy. You could really rest easy in such a state, unless of course you were, as you once were, a fetus/really young baby. But that is really someone else’s problem – someone who will never be heard from.
It would really make you happier if the twins this man stomped to death had their brains scrambled and were sucked out with a vaccuum. Wow.
5 years from now, some progressive judge will let this puppy lose.
“You know it would really make for a clean neat kill if the government just decided who should have an abortion and who should not.”
That would be against Roe v. Wade’s privacy jurisprudence.
Tell us, oh great and wise actus reus, why was the abortion clinic off limits to said infaticidal parents?
this is what would happen if you were to limit reproductive choice.
Unwanted/unplanned pregnancies are a fact of life. I’d rather have someone have a safe medical procedure to end their pregnancy rather than have a boyfriend take a basbeball bat and pound her stomach. I don’t think that’s pro-life. When Roe v. Wade was initially decided, Americans overwhelmingly supported the right for a woman to choose since they remembered the back allley and coat hangar abortions when there was no reproductive choice. As time has gone on, there is limited support for reproductive choice because people have forgotten what life was like before Roe v. Wade. Either way, these politicians are hypocrites, and I’d gurantee you if their sons impregnated a young woman, or their daughters became pregnant with an unwanted child, they would claim to be pro-life for political reasons, but abort the fetus in a heartbeat to save their family’s name.
“Tell us, oh great and wise actus reus, why was the abortion clinic off limits to said infaticidal parents?”
If there had been one handy you still think she would have done this stuff?
SCSI you are funny (although this issue is not funny)…
Thanks for the chuckle on #26
Actus,
You think what would have happened in a clinic would be different? Don’t tell me you think stomping was cruel to the unborn. Would it have been better had the stomper been a licensed MD performing the same procedure? Is the real crime to you practicing medicine without a license? What is better about the brain scrambling and vaccuum? Apparently the mother was unharmed, so why is a clinic necessary?
I don’t know whether it is of any concern to Actus, but I do wonder how far along this pregnancy was.
“You think what would have happened in a clinic would be different? ”
I don’t think a woman would be getting punched and kicked.
Actus, if you think there are no clinics or hospitals that would perform an abortion in an area where they also wouldn’t proscecute the mother becuse she had a protected right to an abortion, then you are much more delusional than even I thought.
Personally, I think you are just being a contrarian little stinker, looking for attention.
Whack that mole, SCSI.
“Actus, if you think there are no clinics or hospitals that would perform an abortion in an area where they also wouldn’t proscecute the mother becuse she had a protected right to an abortion, then you are much more delusional than even I thought.”
The entire country is an area where a mother has the right to an abortion. Prosecuting her would have been misconduct.
Moving the goalpost again, erm, scratch that, the mole just popped up from a new hole.
So can we now prosecute doctors for performiong the abortions?
Why is the boyfriend treated differently since the “woman” with her choice asked for him to do it.
Hmmmmmm!!
Olive (#27), does the unborn baby get to exercise “reproductive choice?”
olive rosemary,
were you trying to be funny? “this is what would happen if you were to limit..”
this is what DID happen
It points out that the only hypocrite is one who claims legal abortion is compassionate and will end all society’s ills. The old line which you have to be as old as me to remember had something to do with abortion ending child abuse because it would end unwanted pregnancies, it would end poverty since only people who could afford children would have them, it would end horrible abortions and replace them with safe abortions. (There are no safe abortions for the unborn).
All of it garbage. A generation later and we have more child abuse, children still in poverty, and sadly millions of lost lives. The idea that some people will chose to end the life of a precious child because it isn’t precious to them does not make it right and it should not be legal whether some sad fool in authority would do it or not. Abortionist advocates rarely include the statistics on women who suffer remorse afterwards, depression and infections and sterilization are all possible outcomes of ’safe abortions’. Abortion is not only horrible for unborn children, it is horrible for women. But those compassionate abortionists don’t talk about that.
The entire country is an area where a mother has the right to an abortion
So, they didn’t get one, why?
“So, they didn’t get one, why?”
My guess is that there wasn’t one handy to a freaked out teenage There are places in this country where that is the case. Where there is a legal right to abortion, but as applied, not quite.
Oh and the guys behavior – ABUSE OF HIS GIRLFRIEND! Nobody seems to want to think about that, that this woman was stomped on.
Care more for the not yet alive than the ones breathing, walking and talking.
To which she submitted willingly, as she also wanted to kill the baby dead. The baby was the abused one, not this dimwitted woman. – Admin
Olive (#27),
Perhaps I think too simply, but she did have “reproductive choice.” She could have chosen not to reproduce. Or she could have chosen a method to thwart the potential reproductive result of the reproductive act.
Andy:”Moving the goalpost again, erm, scratch that, the mole just popped up from a new hole.”
What goalpost? We can’t take any conclusion from the fact that she wasn’t charged because she clearly can’t be charged.
Everyone, men and women, have reproductive choice regardless of any laws. It is those who choose irresponsibly without the commitment to the consequences that are asking for an exemption.
And regardless of her ‘right to choose’ she should be charged as an accomplice to his crimes, or contibuting to the delinquency, or improper disposal of medical waste, or conspiracy to commit medical malpractice. You get the idea, if Al Capone can be taken down on income tax evasion, there must be some way to express societies outrage.
I agree completely, La Shawn.
I would also like to add another point of view: Is Gerardo accused of murder simply because he did not possess the proper license for performing abortions? I mean, Erica DID ask for help ending the pregnancy (as is her right of “choice”).
Don’t get me wrong. I do not agree with abortion-on-demand as a form of birth control. I’m merely trying to look at this from a different angle (i.e. you can murder unborn humans as long as you have the proper license)
Brian you bring up a good point (since according to the Texas Law…licensed medical personnel are “EXEMPT” from being charged with murder in these cases)… seems to be the only thing in this case seperating Gerardo from a doctor (since she did ask for help in KILLING and did not beg for him to spare her childrens life).
nobody important,
i wonder whether you have a legal point. I imagine aiding and abetting the commission of a felony is a felony. Taking part in a conspiracy to commit a crime is probably a felony. Of course this might get appealed on the grounds of Actus’s view, and the Supremes would have to strike down the law or overturn Roe v. Wade. Let us hope the authorities charge her with aiding and have the legal point resolved.
Actus is fond of mentioning that this could all have been solved by going to an abortion clinic. The girl in this case may have avoided a clinic not because it wasn’t available, but because of the cost. If she’s willing to beat on herself for weeks and then get her boyfriend to step on her, then she probably would have been willing to go to an abortion clinic if that had been an option. If she was avoiding the fee for such a service, then her boyfriend certainly paid the price for her with his life in prison sentence.
(one other thought- she may have been avoiding an abortion clinic because she was too far along in her pregnancy, not all clinics can handle abortions after three months- you have to have special accomodations for such procedures- abortions of twins are even more likely to have complications)
Just a Point: I think your second thought is more likely. There are so many groups out there subsidizing abortion that cost is rarely a factor.
“one other thought- she may have been avoiding an abortion clinic because she was too far along in her pregnancy, not all clinics can handle abortions after three months- you have to have special accomodations for such procedures”
I think she was at 5 months. And so we are back to there not being a convenient, accessible source of safe, legal abortion.
Trackback gives me a 404 LS. Here is my entry at my blog:
I think the female (if you can honestly call her that) should be given the same sentence as her companion.
Read the rest at the link..:)
Hopefully her boyfriend’s kicks left her permanently sterilized.
If she was 5 month along, convenient and accessible grabs me a Planned Homicide. Why wait 5 months? Maybe she toiled in the fear that telling her boyfriend of pending fatherhood may lead to abandonment.
Anyway Actus, this appears to be another example of how males lost their right to equal protection under the law with regard to reproductive issues when male genitals were castrated by judication in a 1973 court of law. If all he did was to ‘kick her in her fetal womb at her request” how come he is charged for murder, and not simply domestic abuse, when the legal system determines the fetus just a clump of cells and abortion is not murder? Seems to me that in order to have equal rights under the law, since he was convicted and will serve time in prison for murder, ie killing human life, she too must be charged with not only murder, but with intent to murder by asking him to carry the killing out.
As La Shawn eloquently simplified, “He commits murder, she commits ‘choice’.
(our modern day Medea’s have quite a tight hold on those balls, even so far as to get the boyfriend to do it)
“Anyway Actus, this appears to be another example of how males lost their right to equal protection under the law with regard to reproductive issues when male genitals were castrated by judication in a 1973 court of law.”
I am totally worried about how much males have to fear from the laws passed by the texas state legislature.
I hear you. Same thing happened here in Motown last fall – the boy beat his girlfriend in the stomach with a baseball bat, at her request. It didn’t make as wide of a coverage as this story has, though – I blogged about it several times and none of my non-Michigan readers had heard of it.
Same results in court, too. The county sherrif here was NOT a happy man (rightfully). Thank you, feminists.
I just have to ask this, though I know I will regret it…
Actus, are there a shortage of clinics in Michigan too?
SCSI, yes, anytime someone has to beat themselves, it’s a clear sign that there is a shortage — of morality
“I just have to ask this, though I know I will regret it…
Actus, are there a shortage of clinics in Michigan too? ”
I have no idea. I certainly have a hard time understanding why people beat themselves up if there is a place you can just go to.
So Actus, let me try to understand you. Are you honestly saying that the only problem is that we need more abortion clinics and that killing off the unborn is just too inconvenient now? Cold, very cold, Actus.
How about rigging up a fleet of old Good Humor trucks as mobile abortion wagons and running them up and down the streets, ringing the bell, with the loudspeaker shouting: “Get yer abortion here! Only 5 minutes, and your troubles are over! No waiting! Hurry, hurry, hurry!”
Ding ding, ding ding, ding ding…………….
“I am totally worried about how much males have to fear from the laws passed by the texas state legislature.”
Not this Texan.
Now if you were talking about students and school financing, then you would have a compelling argument.
Redbeard! Don’t give the moonbats of NARAL and KlannedParenthood any ideas.
“Are you honestly saying that the only problem is that we need more abortion clinics and that killing off the unborn is just too inconvenient now? ”
I’m thinking that if there was an accessible abortion clinic there wouldn’t be a woman getting punched and kicked and one young man in jail for a long time.
“I’m thinking that if there was an accessible abortion clinic there wouldn’t be a woman getting punched and kicked and one young man in jail for a long time.”
yeah, that’ll save her from all this…(as she catches AIDS)…oh wait, there are condoms (which she won’t use)….oh wait…and so on and so on and so… (totally missing the point of this idiotic circular cycle of chaos)
Ya just gotta luv it
““You think what would have happened in a clinic would be different? â€
I don’t think a woman would be getting punched and kicked. ”
Oh yeah, that’s the point of the whole situation there.
It’s not the point. The point is the unborn children would STILL be dead.
Personally, the woman should be in jail as well.
Abortion is murder. You don’t want children? Don’t have sex. Seems pretty simple to me.
But then, Common sense never has been a province of the liberal or progressive minded.
I guess the bright spot is that males will have to think twice before performing a back alley, scratch, living room abortion.
I can accept incremental progress in anti-death laws, if only sooner & faster until abortions are but a memory.
Or, could it be, that some people are just ‘not right’? And that no access, no social program, will be enough to save them from themselves?
When I hear about people like this, part of me just says “Thin the herd”.
Thin the herd by sending them off to the hoosegow.
Well, thank God that Judge Ruth Bader and Dr Elder didn’t get their wish for coed prisons, we’d be seeing an explosion in birth control by abortion.
And imagine the rate of prison AIDS, Hep-C and other communicables…
“It’s not the point. The point is the unborn children would STILL be dead.”
But that happens whether or not you charge this guy and send him to jail.
“When I hear about people like this, part of me just says “Thin the herdâ€.”
A more sarcastic person would point to abortion as a way of achieving that. But I would rather point to this person as someone who could use family planning advice.
Actually, these people need more than family planning advice, if this is their idea of the correct way to handle an unwanted pregnancy.
Actus said: “But I would rather point to this person as someone who could use family planning advice.”
Yeah, just as a bank robber needs financial planning advice.
And please, Actus, don’t keep confusing the punishment of the guilty with the murder of the innocent. There really is a difference, unless one is viewing the world through the distorted glass of left wing moral relativism.
“There really is a difference, unless one is viewing the world through the distorted glass of left wing moral relativism.”
I’m not going to take lectures on morals when i’m arguing against saying that people who can’t be saved from themselves should be ‘thinned’.
which is why I wonder, at what point you stop trying to save those who are determined to destroy themselves.
Which is why I embrace the schadenfreud that is the Dean chairmanship.
actually, actus, you’re not reading and responding to the right person, again. I am the herdthinner. Redbeard is the small businessman.
#66, Renee. He’s never seen a point he couldn’t miss
ROFL
Renee, you’re truly one of a kind. Thanks for everything!
There are legal precedents that apply regarding disproportionate sentencing…
If they don’t prosecute her… he may walk on that basis.
It should be her conviction they are appealing.
“actually, actus, you’re not reading and responding to the right person, again. I am the herdthinner. Redbeard is the small businessman.”
I know they’re different commenters. What part of my comment assumed they’re the same people?
I’ll be a herdthinning small businessman, if it will make this easier.
Actually, make that a curmudgeonly short-tempered herdthinning small businessman who is thoroughly exasperated with circular arguments and diversionary tactics from the left. That ought to do it.
I’m missing something in this entire thread. The girl was 16 years old at the time this happened. Where were her parents? Here’s the problem with this country which I think is a strong source of the abortion problem. Parents have abdicated responsibility for their children. They don’t discipline and the don’t pay attention. Kids can do whatever they won’t, and the expectation is the total lack of personal responsibility. Someone failed to teach this children a valuable lesson. That’s the tragedy.
Excellent point, Phaedra, and right at the heart of the problem. And yet, the left is pushing an agenda that takes even caring parents out of the equation.
You’d see aliens landing on the Mall before you hear a leftist say that Christians’ moral values should be respected.Really? Those ‘leftists’ are always calling for raiding your homes and removing crucifixes and Bibles, are they? Forcing you to have abortions? Preventing you from turning the other cheek? Making you keep your possessions instead of selling them and giving to the poor? My ‘leftist’ credentials might be a bit iffy, but I would never dream of not respecting your moral values, so long as you don’t try to force them on me. I will no more accept that than I would Orthodox Jews preventing me from eating a cheeseburger.
So you want to be immune to prosecution for bank robbery, since the proscription against that act is forced upon you by a bunch of moral do-gooders who want to tell you what you can and can’t do?
Cafeteria morality sure does make life easier.
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