Check out what prisoners of war have for dinner. What torture!
By the way, prisoners of war should be held for the duration of the war. At least the prisoners in Cuba are eating well. Can’t say the same about Americans held in the Middle East. If they still have heads, they’re fortunate.
Unrelated Update (6/16): I’m aware that the right sidebar is shifting to the bottom of the page in Internet Explorer. It’ll be fixed shortly. Might be a great time for you to try the Firefox browser. 
The blog looks so much better.
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They’re eatin’ better than I do some days.
Yuhmmmm, fooood. [channeling Homer Simpson]
I’ll bet there are plenty of Cubans who would love to climb the fence and trade places with any of the terrorists being held there.
Good point, PA. The detainees eat better than several generations of Cubans. Sad story.
“What torture!”
vs.
“On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold….On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.”
And the war for hearts and minds continues.
Eating better than people on a ship in the Navy…. or people in the Army or Marines that are relying on MRE’s (Meals Ready to Eat).
Eating better than I do generally.
“They’re eatin’ better than I do some days.”
Me too, ThirdWaveDave. Paging Amnesty International…..
Prisoners of war at Gitmo eat better than prisoners in Sheriff Joe’s Maricopa County (Phoenix metro) jail where they serve green bologna and make prisoners wear pink underwear. They have to sleep in tents even when it’s 110° here at night. Where is Amnesty International now?
” Where is Amnesty International now?”
I don’t think Amnesty deals with general prison conditions, even in other countries. Human Rights Watch has issued some reports on US prisons though. You should check their website.
Yes Actus, because we know the government is telling our wardens and prison guards to abuse prisoners. To you it’s systematic and ordered from above.
To us we know there are bad apples in every organization (including prisons). That’s the difference between common sense sane people like us and the way you think.
To prove otherwise, show us the order by the government given to prison guards and wardens.. We’ll not wait. Oh. I mean we will wait (but know you can’t produce).
So Actus, who’s this eyewitness? And even if it were true, how is it worse than the other side of the island?
Remember, this guy is a member of a group who have a cookbook full of recipes for killing gays and other infidels. I hear a favorite recipe is amputating the lovers’ extremities, one at a time, and usually involves feeding a certain first cut to the victims. You should be grateful that for every one that’s detained or killed is one less cook trying to start a franchise here.
“Yes Actus, because we know the government is telling our wardens and prison guards to abuse prisoners. To you it’s systematic and ordered from above.”
In general prisons? I think most people just don’t care, and don’t work to change prison conditions.
“So Actus, who’s this eyewitness? And even if it were true, how is it worse than the other side of the island?”
He’s an FBI agent. I make no claims that it is better or worse than how cuba, a communist dictatorship, treats people.
To All:
Prisoners held at Guantanamo are not “Prisoners of War” – they are “Enemy Combatants” – those ununiformed terrorists not fighting for a defined country.
Euro Weenies and American Bed Wetters have misused this terminology – as conservatives, we must not fall into this trap.
Actus, it’s no great talent to be able to find something about which to be offended. It’s a lot easier to do that than to see the whole picture and work for a proper solution.
actus,
I will try to remain calm while I’m typing this to avoid an excess of typos. If ever there was a time for La Shawn to ban you this is it.
I am still so incensed over Senator Dick Durbin’s (D-Illinois)comparison of conditions at Gitmo to the Soviet Gulag, Nazi Concentration camps, and Pol Pot’s genocidal regimes treatment of prisoners while quoting from the report you just quoted, that I can hardly control myself.
While some of the conditions outlined by the FBI agent might sound bad, they are far better than most POW’s have EVER been treated by any country, Geneva Convention or not. Most of the stuff just sounds silly when you are trying to define it as TORTURE. Don’t give me any of that “higher standard” stuff either. WE DO HOLD TO A HIGHER STANDARD. I haven’t seen any footage released on national television of prisoners being lined up and shot while our guards yelled “God is great”. I haven’t seen any prisoners bound, blindfolded, and SLOWLY decapitated while the guards stood around yelling “God is great” and then holding up the head of the prisoner while his decapitated body flopped like a fish out of water, taking in a few last breath through its severed windpipe.
When Dick Durbin quoted that report on the Senate floor, we should have seen John McCain take him down and engage in some “19th Century Senate” style fisticuffs, since I think that McCain, of all the people sitting in that body, has a pretty good inkling of what constitutes torture.
This whole flap over Gitmo does not bode well for our future fortunes at prevailing in this conflict. There are many of us who simply do not have the stomach to do what it takes to win a war against the barbarians we are facing. They want to continue to treat it like a “police problem” and even (may God help us) provide lawyers for the murdurous scum we are holding at Gitmo.
OK, I say turn them all loose, pull out all our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, and let’s see what the future brings. I just hope that death is quick and painless for the next group of our citizens who become targets for these fanatics. I won’t even engage in any “I told you so” lectures after the fact. But, I will pray that the Government gets serious from that point on, not only with our enemies from without, but also those from within. Just because people like you, actus, are bent on taking our country down a self-loathing, politically correct path toward self-destruction doesn’t mean the rest of us have to be dragged along with you.
“Just because people like you, actus, are bent on taking our country down a self-loathing, politically correct path toward self-destruction doesn’t mean the rest of us have to be dragged along with you.”
LaShawn may not ban traitors like actus because they generate responses like that, Montie.
“I am still so incensed over Senator Dick Durbin’s (D-Illinois)comparison of conditions at Gitmo to the Soviet Gulag, Nazi Concentration camps, and Pol Pot’s genocidal regimes treatment of prisoners while quoting from the report you just quoted, that I can hardly control myself.”
When you read that description — without knowing what country it is about — what comes to mind? America? or something else? America isn’t what comes to my mind. I don’t know about the rest of you.
“Just because people like you, actus, are bent on taking our country down a self-loathing, politically correct path toward self-destruction doesn’t mean the rest of us have to be dragged along with you.”
Hey I’m the one who thinks the arab world needs liberalism and feminism, and that dick cheney and dubya are not the guys to give it to them.
Kevin,
This whole thing with Amnesty International and all the liberals wailing and moaning about the POW’s rights, along with those who want to see us pullout, Vietnam style, from Iraq is wearing really thin on me.
These are TERRORIST prisoners of war, not somebody we picked up for heisting a loaf of bread down at the corner store. They have NO CONCEPT of “rights” in and of their own accord, so anything we do to them short of what THEY WOULD DO US in reversed circumstance is probably a great relief to them.
To go along with that, if I hear anything else about mistreatment of an inanimate book (the Koran) as being equated as some sort of mistreatment of the prisoners, I think my head will explode. How hard a concept is it to grasp that whatever one might do to a book (that we provided to them in the first place), it does not constitute torture, mistreatment or even being made “uncomfortable” in the physical sense.
I think this whole thing got started when the radical left began calling Bush and/or Cheney “Hitler”. They are so obsessed with their hatred for all things Bush that they reach to equate him (and consequently the military he commands) with the most feared and loathed regimes in recent history. While most sane and logical people think the comparisons being made are ridiculous and silly, the left is becoming even more outrageous and deranged in what they are willing to say and/or do in order to accomplish their goal of bringing down the President, and I honesly think that many in the Democratic leadership have lost all touch with reality.
Under different circumstances, if I were to run across someone on the street in the course of my duties saying some of the things many liberals are saying these days, I might feel obligated to do an Officer’s affidavit for an emergency order of detention (a document that requests a period of evaluation of the subject’s mental health)and transport them to a mental health facility.
“These are TERRORIST prisoners of war, not somebody we picked up for heisting a loaf of bread down at the corner store.”
We’ve released some of them. So not all of them are terrorists.
Actus,
In the first quote you cited:
“The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night.”
Neat trick…
He apparently is a yoga expert. Pulling ones hair out while chained in the fetal position would take a bit of doing. Maybe he had someone else pull his hair out for him. Maybe he ordered out for a sadistic cosmotologist?
You sound like you have a bit of intelligence (albeit tainted by the bad alignment that constantly pulls to the left) I can’t believe someone like you would fall prey to the sensationalism of a biased comment such as the one you quoted.
These terrorists…I mean, detainees are willing to give their lives to see Americans die. I’m sure the discomfort of Gitmo won’t faze them.
Yeah, I’m biased.
My bias comes from serving in the military for the last 20 years protecting bleeding heart Americans such as yourself from the monsters that live under the bed of democracy. Let me see if I can arrange a little trip to Cuba so you can go give them a big ol’ hug. I’m pretty sure there’s more floor space and the terrorists…I mean, detainees will surely be glad to have someone that’s willing to clean up their “mess”.
I wish there was some way I could pick and choose which of you Americans I protect the next time I deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan or wherever they send me. Because you, sir, do not deserve what I provide.
“I can’t believe someone like you would fall prey to the sensationalism of a biased comment such as the one you quoted.”
Its just one FBI agent compared to a congressman describing food. Where’s the sensationalism?
Durbin sees some sad sack groaning chained on the floor of a room not allowed to sit. Does he realize that this is NOT an Illinois voter? That this is NOT a uniformed soldier, but a terrorist? That if this was Nazi Germany this man would have been roasted alive along with millions like him as well as women and children? I am more concerned (MUCH more) about the lives and comforts of hundreds of millions of INNOCENTS who live here than 600 murderers trying to kill me. I do not for a moment believe that Gitmo adds recruits to the madmen who want us dead, unless they want the chicken a l’orange they offer there, which I understand is succulent. I really fail to see the similarity between a tough prison for terrorists and the slaughter of millions of innocents. To see a similarity is to remove the moral difference.
Nardo,
Therein lies the fundamental problem with liberals today. They cannot or will not grasp the difference between the two. They see things through the lense of moral equivalence and therefore cannot distinguish TRUE EVIL from someone they simply disagree with politically. In addition, they are always ready to give the benefit of the doubt to ANYONE but their own Government or Country.
Muzik/Nardo, well said!
Actus, you fail to realize these people would consider it an honor to kill you simply for what you are, your emoting/sympathizing on their behalf notwithstanding.
actus,
Yes we’ve released some of them, and that has come back to haunt us, as some have then been picked up a second time on the battlefield (at least 12 of the 200 released so far). Some of the releases have been done because after being fully vetted, they were considered as being no threat. Others were released due to political pressure, never a good reason in time of war.
You’ll have to pardon me if I seem overly agitated today. I made the mistake of actually viewing some videos taken from Arab TV by a friend of mine still in active service. He warned me that just seeing them might be a life altering experince, and I’m beginning to think he was right.
Now, I have seen some amazingly horrible things in some of the crimes and accidents I have investigated in the last 19 years but I was totally stunned at the level of callous barbarity the Islamist fanatics demonstrated on their prisoners and hostages, and felt almost numb for some time afterward.
I can guarantee you that any of our troops who have seen these videos (and apparently many have) will never willingly surrender to these monsters, but instead go down fighting.
Hence, I am in no mood to be told about how “mean” we are to the prisoners at Gitmo, when in fact, we are by comparison, coddling them. Especially after the discussion I had last night with one of my liberal friends who said we should excuse their inhuman and diabolical barbarism because it is their “culture”. I say, any culture that promotes this type of behavior has no legitimate right to exist in the 21st century.
FYI
Miss Barber, FYI, the website keeps disappearing on me. One minute it loads and then I come back a couple of hours later and it loads a blank screen with a message of “no data on page”. I am using the Firefox browser to view your site.
Problems with the host, Jerry. Don’t adjust your computer.
La Shawn:
I just discovered the perfect gift for my Middle-Eastern friends –
The Gitmo Cookbook
Actus,
I see you are at it again, but you haven’t documented any of your claims that Andy requested nor have you come forward with any fortified position.
You state that you are for liberalism (classical or modern neo leftist?) and feminism (Western or Regional Islamic?) in the Middle East but don’t think Bush or Cheney are the right guys . . OK, who do you think are the right guys?
Please, it has been about 3 weeks since I asked you on another thread to state a position . . . on anything. Remember? I am the one that tries to learn from others and you imply to be wise. Why do you criticize others’ positions without stating your own?
I know you fancy yourself as a lawyer, is it slow at work? you seem to be on the boards alot.
Luego,
W.NM.
Actus,
Where’s your outrage about innocent Americans (and other nationalities) that are kidnapped, tortured and killed? Oh wait..It’s because we’re where we shouldn’t be. That’s right..I forgot your logic….whatever that is….Nevermind the fact that whether or not we were in Iraq they’d STILL be doing it, but they’d be doing it without fear of reprise (ie, under the auspices of Saddam).
How you can worry about the detainees is beyond me. Most of them would be happy to kidnap you in Iraq, tie you down in a fetal postion so you defecated and urinated on yourself, and leave you that way for days no food or water without the nice Amnesty People intervening on your behalf (the ‘nice Amnesty people’ is pure sarcasm, they’re as idiotic as anyone who bothers to listen to them).
Wake up, smell the coffee and realize that until we’re safe (and we won’t be until fascist islamic types are no longer with us) we can’t live in the supposed utopia you envision.
What a simpleton.
Actus wrote, “Hey I’m the one who thinks the arab world needs liberalism and feminism”
Wow Actus. You really haven’t been paying attention then. The paradox of the Democrat/liberal leadership is that they think we need to listen to the Middle East and understand people in those countries better and work towards an understanding. Yet the people in those countries talk about our debauchery and anything goes mentality and how much evil exists here. You want to export some of the very things they would really be madder at us about.
Personally, I don’t think this is a big deal. Is there something wrong with treating people humanely? So what if they eat good. Should we feed them bees and bread? If they are eating better then some of you, then maybe some of you need to get better jobs. The fact of the matter is that we have standards and I am glad that we are living up to them – for the most part. I would hate for us to become like the Taliban. As far as the abuse is concerned – we need to weed them out and move on. I’m against Gitmo – but if we have to have then why not do it right and in a humane way. I would think Christian folk would demand it to be that way. Just a thought.
You would think right James.
Problem is you are believing detainees and reports by the media that conflict with each other and there are Senators comparing us with Pol Pot and Stalin and Hitler.
Back to perspective….
Christians want humane treatment for us (no chopping heads off and flying planes into buildings) and them (no torture)
Alan Dershowitz (yes a leftist) opined that if millions of people are going to die unless someone we are detaining knows information and isn’t spilling the beans, we need to be able to have a rationale debate about what methods are ok.
Rational means not impugning someones Christianity as you have been doing too often.
In this country, criminals are shackled, police have batons and use them and here Senators are without evidence or facts or even a valid comparison calling this country and it’s administration to the carpet when for all I know the worst that’s happened is there is a few military personnel who have misbehaved (not Bush himself).
Just a thought.
Question, these men have been detained for more than three years now. Don’t you think whatever plans they knew about have changed since the dynamic of the terrorist network has changed so much in the past years? I’m not arguing to let them go – but I doubt any of them have any information that is of significant value to what is happening today. My guess is that most of them were grunts and any leaders among them have been replaced and new plans are being forged. I don’t believe in torture – I can understand how some can support it – Shoot, I’d want a few Jack Bowers handling up on terrorist if a terrorist attack was imminent. But I would doubt anyone in Gitmo would have any information on a plot in the works.
I don’t have much interest in the abuse allegations. That is something the military can handle.
I don’t mean to dog Christians.
No problem. Apology accepted.
You know. I’m fairly common sensical. I’ve listened to the question about some of them being detained for 3 years.
It comes down to this for me:
They weren’t picked up in a bakery baking bread. They were “enemy combatants” meaning they were not wearing uniforms but taking up arms against our military in Afg. and Iraq. In this War on Terror, when do we let them go? I don’t know because it’s going to be a long war. In the month of September 2001 Bush was saying it’ll be long and not one battle and not one war. People wanted to limit our engagement to just Afg.
There have been some released and then found engaging us as an enemy again.
The questions are many, but I don’t think the answer is to funnel them through our court system nor release them. They don’t fall under the Geneva Convention but they should be treated as humanely as possible.
It comes down to this for me. If I engaged the U.S. military (without uniform), I’d rather be detained in those facilities (I’d probably be a model citizen there though compared to the antics these guys have been reportedly doing) then have been killed. And I’d expect that I would be there until the war was over.
Reply to #39 – I’m trying to be a more civil today.
Everything you said is absolutely correct. The problem I have with Gitmo is that there is no way to define a victor in the so-called “war” on terror. What I want to avoid is turning Gitmo into some sort of concentration camp. That may seem far-fetched to some but America has done some shady things to people for the “greater good”. The Japanese internment camps are one that comes to mind. I don’t think there is anything wrong with constantly asking ourselves – is this necessary, is it just, and is there a better way? Whenever we’ve failed to ask our government to answer those questions, we’ve found ourselves with a mess. That’s my position.
I don’t know if you’ve had a chance to read Michelle Malkin’s book.
The internment of Japanese either has to be called “wrong” today or the politically correct crowd comes after you today. Germans and Japanese were both interned in almost equal numbers and while it should TURN everyone’s stomach that we had to move people (under the guise of their protection) to camps, it wasn’t a German style “concentration” camp (you used the word concentration).
It is so misunderstood.
It is also not understood that we might not’ve won WW2 without the actions that were undertaken by order of FDR. There were countless examples of Japanese aiding the nation of Japan from within this nation in many different ways.
Again. As it should, it should turn our stomachs. War is awful. War is terrible. Killing each other is the worst. And I agree with you that we should always be able to look at what we are doing. Unfortunately we have Senators looking at what we are doing and comparing us to Pol Pot, Stalin and other evil regimes.
Bak – If I inferred that the Japanese internment camps were concentration camp, that is a miscommunication on my part. My point is that I don’t want Gitmo to turn into a concentration camp. I never heard of the book that you mentioned but again, anyone can rationalize any actions so I’ll let the history buffs work that one out.
As for our Senators… man I have no faith in them at all. They should have asked the hard questions before we went into Iraq. They should have asked about Gitmo before it was set up. They didn’t. They are rubber stamps on the front end of a crises and rubber necks on the back end. I’ll exclude Barak Obama (he’s my Senator and wasn’t there at the time). But we’ll see what he does in the future.
As liberal as I am – I’m not harping over Gitmo. I just say lets revisit its need so that we stay true to the values that we espouse.
“It is also not understood that we might not’ve won WW2 without the actions that were undertaken by order of FDR. There were countless examples of Japanese aiding the nation of Japan from within this nation in many different ways.”
Thanks for pointing that out Bakalva. Few people remember that & the MSM refuses to air the full story about the Japanese during WW II. It’s very similar to what is happening now.
Also, at least 12 of the detainees released from Guantanamo have been known to return to being active & dangerouse terrorists. These guys were Arabs who went to Afghanistan specifically to do jihad. They were not your Afghan man on the street.
“Turban Durbin” quoted an OPINION of someone OBVIOUSLY with an axe to grind. “Turban Durbin†has NEVER visited GITMO himself and this kind of rhetoric puts our troops in REAL danger. We need to revive the Sedition Act of 1911 and start prosecuting some of these liberals, Democrats and traitors.
Disagreeing on the war is one thing, but comparing what is going on down in “Club Gitmo” to Pol Pot and the Kmer Rouge, The Soviet Gulags and NAZI GERMANY is way over the top and this dude needs to be punished.
Any soldier should be OUTRAGED! Come one. Can we at least get THIS one for pete’s sake and the sake of our fighting men? If a Republican had said something like this, the Democrat simians would have been screeching and jumping up and down calling for his head and we KNOW this.
Trent Lott lost his position for a heck of a lot less albeit mostly due to the actions of COWARDLY, SPINELESS, YELLOW-BACKED, WEAK-KNEED members of his own party.
When are Democrats going to hold their own to the fire? I mean, at least Black people need to start saying something about this buffoonery. We (Democrat Blacks) didn’t say a word when the Democrats elected Sen. Robert Byrd, an avowed and self-admitted KU KLUX KLAN RECRUITER as the Senate President Pro Tempore. Said nothing when Clinton named J. William Fullbright, a rabid racist, segregationist as his mentor and friend and inspiration for political life. Said nothing when the drunken escaped murderer Ted Kennedy called BLACK FEMALE judge Janice Rogers Brown a “neanderthal.†Democrat leaders comparing homosexuals their sick seeking of special rights to be nasty, immoral and do whatever feels good somehow equivalent to the Civil Rights struggle of the ‘50s and ‘60s. The list goes on and on. How much more can people take from that silly party?
You may say I would be going too far by saying Democrats hate America, but just look at the irony in that statement. Of course not all of them do, but the ones in charge now certainly do. They are FULLY aiding and abetting Al Qaeda and our other enemies and there is plenty of evidence to the affirmative supporting the charges.
Like I have always said, the enemy of the domestic variety is THE MOST dangerous kind and the Clintons, Durbin, Kennedy, Leahy, Dean, Pelosi, Conyers, Rangel, Biden, McDermott, Byrd, Reid and others CLEARLY fit the description of ENEMY OF THE STATE!!!!
Too much evidence against them. In another time, they would have been easily tried and convicted of HIGH TREASON. Sen. McCarthy tried to warn us. Boy has he been vindicated a thousand times over.
For the sake of the nation however, I pray they stay in office and keep talking. Their words and actions all but guarantee the GOP staying in office for cycles to come.
James Manning,
Asking questions is one thing. Hating your country as well as the troops who defend it and the right or its citizens to dissent is unacceptable.
I am all for closing Gitmo. A couple of well placed MOABS and 500lb bombs would do the trick. We could then send the remains of its TERRORIST occupants back to their homelands and families more quickly with a note attached to the soda can with their ashes saying “GITMO CLOSED.”
Raymond – I know you say that in gest so I won’t point out the absurdity of your post. As for hating my country. What gave you the impression that i hated my country? Throughout our history people have had to force the government to reconcile its actions and laws with the values that we espouse. I don’t know if this is one of those cases, but just because the Presidents says this is the way that is and is going to be doesn’t mean that someone shouldn’t challenge him.
I personally believe that if the Constitution were written in today’s political climate, we wouldn’t have close to the number of rights that we enjoy today. I am glad there are people challenging the legitimacy of Gitmo. And I don’t think they do it because the hate America. That’s just an highly over-use neocon phrase.
James,
I believe that there is a mix among the folks questioning Gitmo. Some hate America. They are the ones that oppose everything America does, is, and has been. Then there are the people with legitimate concerns.
Exactly so, SCSI. Dick Durbin has gone over to the dark side (if he wasn’t there already) with his latest outburst. What ever happened to the concept of the Loyal Opposition, patriots who opposed the administration but still place their country first?
Wanting changes at the prison is fine. I disagree with the need for any sort of sweeping change, but that can be debated and handled by patriots with differing opinions, as can every other issue upon which there is honest disagreement.
What Durbin did was not at all patriotic. Screaming those vile and ridiculous accusations, giving propaganda weaponry to our opponents, and causing more grief for our troops in harm’s way is not an action taken by a sane person who loves his country.
Durbin has defiled his country, publicly insulted his military men and women, shown disrespect for his fellow citizens, and disgraced himself. He should be censured, at the very least.
Cap’n Ed has got Durbin’s number, see if you can guess where this gulag-esque event occurred:
“ In one incident, an elite squad of 40 guards took over a maximum-security [unit] … for the sole purpose of beating and terrorizing the prisoners. A jail investigator determined that the guards’ misconduct was covered up by … medical personnel, who filed false reports and refused or delayed treatment to the prisoners, and by the … inspector general, who refused to cooperate with the investigation. In the other incident, five inmates in a special incarceration unit … alleged that they were beaten by 20 or more … as they lay cuffed and shackled on the floor.
Was that done in the sunny climes of our Cuban installation? No — that happened in Sheahan’s Chi-town jail, in 1999 and 2000. Durbin’s pal promised that his jail would improve and that reports of torture and abuse would stop. And they did, mostly because unlike the whistleblowers at Abu Ghraib who were lauded for their efforts to end the isolated cases of abuse at that prison, Sheahan made sure he got rid of the squealers at the Cook County lockup.
Let’s try this again. Gitmo or Cook County:”
Read more at http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004735.php
What was this proverb about throwing rocks at glass houses? These moonbatic donks never learn.
[passing the baton to Redbeard and other Chicagoans]
“Let’s try this again. Gitmo or Cook County:”
So the answer to Durbin is that, yes, these things are very true blue american? ok.
[RedBeard hit Actus up 'side the head with Andy's baton for posting another missing-the-point message]
“Let’s try this again. Gitmo or Cook County:â€
So the answer to Durbin is that, yes, these things are very true blue american? ok.
Or, Durbin should look to his own back yard if he wants to see real torture and prisoner abuse. I’m really wondering if your schtick is an act, Actus, or do you really have comprehension issues. God save your future clients, because the A-DAs are gonna love you.
“Or, Durbin should look to his own back yard if he wants to see real torture and prisoner abuse.”
I don’t know what authority a senator has over state penal systems. But ya, you make a good point, lets eliminate all prison abuse.
“God save your future clients, because the A-DAs are gonna love you.”
I am staying far away from the criminal system. That stuff is too depressing. It’s enough to read the pdclerk blog.
Amazing that the cell which would have housed the waifish Michael Jackson was more secure, smaller, nastier, LESS SCENIC, infected and scarier than the ones housing KILLERS, TERRORISTS, PSYCHOs and MUSLIM LUNATICS in Gitmo.
Go figure.
The sad thing about free speech is that that you STILL are not allowed to say what you REALLY think about people like Sen. DICK Durbin and what you REALLY think the consequences should be for his actions. The Sedition Act comes to mind:
The Sedition Act of 1798
An Act in addition to the act, entitled “An act for the punishment of certain crimes against the United States. ”
SEC. I Be it enacted . . ., That if any persons shall unlawfully combine or conspire together, with intent to oppose any measure or measures of the government of the United States, which are or shall be directed by proper authority, or to impede the operation of any law of the United States, or to intimidate or prevent any person holding a place or office in or under the government of the United States, from undertaking, performing or executing his trust or duty; and if any person or persons, with intent as aforesaid, shall counsel, advise or attempt to procure any insurrection, riot. unlawful assembly, or combination, whether such conspiracy, threatening, counsel, advice, or attempt shall have the proposed effect or not, he or they shall be deemed guilty of a high misdemeanor, and on conviction, before any court of the United States having jurisdiction thereof, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars, and by imprisonment during a term not less than six months nor exceeding five years; and further, at the discretion of the court may be holden to find sureties for his good behaviour in such sum, and for such time, as the said court may direct.
SEC. 2. That if any person shall write, print, utter. Or publish, or shall cause or procure to be written, printed, uttered or published, or shall knowingly and willingly assist or aid in writing, printing, uttering or publishing any false, scandalous and malicious writing or writings against the government of the United States, or either house of the Congress of the United States, or the President of the United States, with intent to defame the said government, or either house of the said Congress, or the said President, or to bring them. or either of them, into contempt or disrepute; or to excite against them, or either or any of them, the hatred of the good people of the United States, or to excite any unlawful combinations therein, for opposing or resisting any law of the United States, or any act of the President of the United States, done in pursuance of any such law, or of the powers in him vested by the constitution of the United States, or to resist, oppose, or defeat any such law or act, or to aid, encourage or abet any hostile designs of any foreign nation against the United States, their people or government, then such person, being thereof convicted before any court of the United States having jurisdiction thereof, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars, and by imprisonment not exceeding two years.
SEC. 3. That if any person shall be prosecuted under this act, for the writing or publishing any libel aforesaid, it shall be lawful for the defendant, upon the trial of the cause, to give in evidence in his defence, the truth of the matter contained in the publication charged as a libel. And the jury who shall try the cause, shall have a right to determine the law and the fact, under the direction of the court, as in other cases.
SEC. 4. That this act shall continue to be in force until March 3, 1801, and no longer….
I am sure this act has been updated, but even if it has, I am sure that DICK Durbin qualifies for prosectuion under it.
“I am sure this act has been updated, but even if it has, I am sure that DICK Durbin qualifies for prosectuion under it. ”
You really think its against the law to oppose government policy? Are you high?
Actus,
Depending on how you do it, yes, it is illegal to oppose the govt. Crack open the law books or fire up Westlaw/Lawpack.
“Depending on how you do it, yes, it is illegal to oppose the govt.Crack open the law books or fire up Westlaw/Lawpack.”
Of course not as broadly as the simple definition of “oppose” in the sedition act. Also, wasn’t his speech given in the senate floor? Crack open your constituion and read Article I, section 6: “and for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place.”
But of course, the real kicker is sec2 of the sedition act.
Article I, Sec. 6 in no way prevents me from calling Durbin a vicious braying jackass, nor does it give him any immunity to censure or expulsion. He deserves no less than censure for his outrageous slander against our armed forces.
Adolf Hitler – About 9 million dead
Soviet gulags – About 2.7 million dead
Pol Pot – About 1.7 million dead
Gitmo – zero dead
Gitmo – five instances of Koran abuse by prison guards
Gitmo-15 instances of Koran abuse by prisoners.
Got this from Powerline…
Good catch, Bak. Kinda puts things in perspective, not that the left really wants perspective. Do you think the screamers on the left even know who Pol Pot was? I really doubt it. Their dismal lack of any sort of historical perspective is quite remarkable.
Pol Pot is a pot grown in the SouthEast part of the world. It has a distinct Cambodian flavor. The last was grown in 1988 and therefore has grown quite popular among the elite.
LOL LOL LOL
Wow, the colors! The COLORS, man!
When you consider that the hero to the left Noam Chomsky is on record referring to the Khmer Rouge murders as “a New York Times creation,” why would they concern themselves with Pol Pot.
I hope the yucksters at Saturday Night Live and the late night shows do not fail to strike the big fat to bursting pinata that is Dick Durbin.
Bak, got a leftward floating decimal on the gulags, should be 27 million (at least)
My concern with Gitmo:
(1) How do we determine who gets sent there? I think that there should be some sort of legal procedure in place to make certain that everyone there belongs there. Particularly in the case of detainees who were taken in the US. Listen, I don’t have any sympathy for terrorists, but I do want to make certain that we have determined for certain that they are terrorists before locking them up indefinitely.
(2) “By the way, prisoners of war should be held for the duration of the war.”
Totally meaningless unless you have some sort of definition of what constitutes the end of the war; I keep noticing that everyone who wants to keep the people in Gitmo until “the end of hostilities” doesn’t define what exactly that means.
There is a procedure, and it’s being used constantly. The idea that there is no such thing going on is just the creation of the left wing. Many (hundreds, I believe) detainees have been released. Interestingly, a few dozen have already been re-captured trying to shoot at us again.
In addition, let’s not forget that these detainees were captured on the battlefield, not kidnapped from some coffee house. If someone is shooting at me, or even hanging out with those who are shooting at me, I think I can generally assume that he’s an enemy.
Hostilities will be over when the hostiles stop trying to kill us.
Time Warp:
Chris Matthews interviewing Gen. Patton in 1944: “General, the folks back home are very upset about the length of this war and all the casualties; what are you doing about an exit strategy?”
Patton: “We’ll exit when we’re finished kicking the %$#@^%$ hun &^%$@#$^ to death, you idiot, and not a moment sooner. And for asking that ^%$#*&^ stupid question, I’ll give you a personal exit strategy right now, out that %$@*&^ window.”
Hey, I can daydream, can’t I?
“Particularly in the case of detainees who were taken in the US.”
If they’re taken in the US then the US constitution applies.
Do you know of any who were taken in the US?
How to humilate a Jihadi in public (a role model for Iraqi women):
“…The reason she, a tracked-vehicle mechanic, was assigned to the checkpoint was to search women.
“But, that day (about 9 a.m. on June 7) there were a lot of people gathering at this checkpoint and it was very busy. So, I was asked to search some men, too,†said Nicholson.”
[SNIP]
“During the second search, the soldier spotted a grenade hidden behind the visor on the driver’s side. The soldier shouted, “Grenade!â€
“I immediately got man down on the ground, face down, and I remember pressing his face into a sandbag,†Nicholson said.
She continued to hold him down until other soldiers came over and zip-cuffed the man.”
[SNIP]
“She said the man then started crying and someone said he might have been embarrassed because it was a shame for a man in Iraq to get beat up by a woman.”
Read it all. This is the same gal that was awarded for valor in that scene where the 3 HMMWVs charged the insurgents, mowing most of them down — don’t really want any prisoners to add to the Gitmo ranks.
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/06/jessica_lynn_ni.html
“Do you know of any who were taken in the US? ”
In guantanamo? no. But I wasn’t addressing events we have seen, and more the event he was positing in his “if.”
Huh?
I donn’t know of any one captured in the US but held in guantanamo. I wouldn’t be surprised if that didn’t exist. However, the post I was responding to said “if captured in the US.” And I was addressing that possibility.
There is no “if”.
Un-uniformed combatants in the field are taken into custody and shipped to Gitmo or any other convenient OCONUS location for detention – hence detainees.
Terrorists/suspects picked up in CONUS are handled by the FBI for criminal prosecution – hence prisoners.
“Terrorists/suspects picked up in CONUS are handled by the FBI for criminal prosecution – hence prisoners.”
The dichotomy is not quite as clear to the administration though. They’ve been fighting agaisnt this scheme in the Padilla case.
The problem with Gitmo is that we stupidly held these prisoners instead of executing them on the battlefield after being interrogated on the battlefield. The prisoners should have been interrogated in the rear and once useful information had been extracted, and the prisoners found to have been complicit in the deaths of American soldiers either directly or indirectly, an operative quietly comes up behind the terrorist and places a .45 caliber round at the base of his skull.
We should be fighting this war LIKE A WAR! The reason the president’s poll numbers are decreasing is because we are not FIGHTING TO WIN!
You can’t knock out an enemy with jabs. You can’t wash a semi with a squirt gun. You can’t fight anthrax with neosporin.
I must agree that this has become President Bush’s Vietnam for the plain and simple reason that he nor his commanders have the will to kill.
How long do you think it would have taken Gen, George S. Patton to win this war?
” The prisoners should have been interrogated in the rear and once useful information had been extracted”
I think part of the problem is that since you don’t know how much the guy knows, you don’t know when you’re done getting info from him.
Don’t know if anybody has suggested this yet but my solution is to line up all the terrorists against a wall and shoot them (of course, after they have been interrogated). Actually if a few are shot it might make it easier to interrogate the rest. Sure solves the problem of what to do with them later, doesn’t it? Oh yeah, I’m a Christian.
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