Thoughts

La Shawn,

Good morning. If I have been missed in the comments section, it is because I just got off 2 weeks vacation, and studiously avoided computers, television and radio as best I could during that time. I will say, about the only thing I really missed was reading your blog daily.

Good grief, you are certainly right about the reaction that will ensue if you choose to write a book in the vein you’ve outlined. Since I do a lot of personal protection type work off-duty, let me be the first to offer the bodyguard sevices you will likely need in the aftermath of its publication. Liberals and race panderers don’t like having their carefully constructed myths challenged

You can start reading the VDARE archives, they have some pointers over there to defend your thesis.

One of the myths I want to bust wide open is that the old Dixicrats disbanded and joined the Republican party en masse.

So far, no one has done that one. I suspect that if it could be proven otherwise, someone would have done it. But if you’re the first, then you’d strike gold.

La Shawn,

Yes, they are, and hot too at this time of the year. But, like the American Express commercial,
I never leave home without it (and I’m beginning to think that neither should you).

Funny how the Democrats point fingers at Strom Thurmond, yet get very defensive when Senator Byrd’s past history in the Ku Klux Klan is mentioned. It seems that they think only Democrats can change their viewpoints on race, but Republicans must remain racist for life.

Perhaps not having such a high single family rate…
perhaps not having such a high abortion rate…
perhaps not having such a high AIDs rate…
perhaps not having such a high rate of our young males in prison…

since you asked Tiffany…

it’s called putting the Social Gospel above the Saving Gospel…
as history is shwoing us, we exchanged one form of bondage for another

Since hearts were not changed (0nly man made laws)

“But I’d have to start small with a series of well-researched articles first.”

well researched would already put you above malkin.

Ahh…actus,

I haven’t had to take my heartburn medication for the entire two weeks I was on vacation, and today, back at work, I thought I might even get by without it. Looks like that’s not going to be the case now that I’m back to reading your comments here. Oh well (as I take a gulp of water to wash down my Aciphex, hoping it will take effect before I get involved in a back and forth exchange with you).

Other racist policies/institutions implemented or at least championed by Democrats:

- Welfare
- WIC
- Housing Prisons (aka Projects)
- Government schools (social indoctrination and stifling of competitive fires)
- Only party with racially and gender exclusive caucuses in Congress.
- Education philosophies that allow wrong answers as long as the “thought” process is sound.
- Affirmative Discrimination (Action) and quotas

I would classify any program that destroys rather than builds a person’s chances for success as racist.

Renee: LOL!!! You do have a point there.

To be honest: I think that black folks would be in much better shape than we are now just as Renee proposed above. I think it would be like 2 contries in one as blacks and whites would rarely mix in public and definitely not date or marry, worship together(hell it’s like that now). It would be two separately societies all together.

“Since hearts were not changed (0nly man made laws)”

If hearts were not changed, is it accurate to say that white america remains as racist as it was?

Raymond: Personally I think you’re a bit ’special’ (all my southerners know what I am referring to) so I’m not going to even go there with you this morning, dear.

Darkstar wrote, “So far, no one has done that one. I suspect that if it could be proven otherwise, someone would have done it.”

Just like the Internment during WW2. Nobody thought for the longest time that they’d have to set the record straight. What happens over time is the “lie” gets repeated so often that history is misunderstood (on this issue by people like you DS). There comes a point in time where the record needs to be corrected.

So. Chronologically speaking you have it backwards. You imply someone would’ve done it but why would someone have done it BEFORE people like you misrepresented history? Game. Set. Match.

So, actus, if your pappy had hate in his heart, so must you? Is hate a genetic trait?

#16 Actup wrote, “well researched would already put you above malkin”

Nice untrue accusation there Actus. Same ole same ole pattern.

Tiffany wrote, “I think it would be like 2 contries in one as blacks and whites would rarely mix in public”

I disagree. Things would’ve happened differently but I don’t think in America you could’ve prevented non-poor blacks from moving to suburbs nor could anyone have prevented Equal Opportunity (read EEOC). To have such little faith in America’s evolution shows little faith in America’s FUTURE evolution. You have the right to that perspective Tiffany I just want to say I don’t see things that way.

“As long as “affirmative action” exists, blacks are not treated equally.”

There is also evidence of implicit bias pervasive in our society.

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

La Shawn said:
“I’m not sure about that 99 percent, but it makes for a good sound bite. If someone conducting a study were allowed to scour government employment records and those of companies doing business with the government, I predict the conclusions would be rather bleak.”

So your assumption is that most black people are not qualified to do the jobs they are doing?

I think Affirmative Action is particularly important when it comes to government contract. There are a lot of studies that show the gains the minority owned contractors (MOC) have made because of AA. Although the study I read did report that MOC still lag, those lags are attributed to firms not being qualified for the job (meaning experience, number of employees, bonding, and ability to hand the scope of the job). The city of Chicago breaks their contracts down to allow smaller MOC the ability to qualify for the jobs. Chicago mandates that 35% of any city contract be set-aside for a qualified MOC. There are a lot of black owned businesses in Chicago that got their start with the city and was able to build and grow their companies because of AA. And if you know the history of Chicago, you know that MOC didn’t get city contract until Harold Washington came to office.

As for education, I don’t know. Most of the people I know graduated for HBCU’s so there never was an issue.

La Shawn,

Don’t you get it that many of these businesses were locked out from the process to begin with. Certainly it would be nice to get the contracts based on merit, but that wasn’t happening even as recent as the mid 80’s. So, something was done about it.

There were MOF’s capable of doing the jobs, but they weren’t getting the work. What would have been your solution? You live in a city that is 40% black but only 3% of the contracts go to MOF’s. Would you find that odd? Or would you say that they are not getting the contracts because they can’t do the work? Would you wonder why the same network of business owners get all of the bids? Harold Washington did something and the result is an explosion of MOC.

Chicago also has limits on revenue so if you are a MOC grossing more that so many millions per year, you cannot be a part of the program. But those are companies that have grown to the point where they have access to an array of projects. I’m sure because they’ve gained the experience and have the capacity to take on more complex jobs.

The fact is that there is a problem and AA may not be the best solution but it is much better than doing nothing and wait for racism to disappear on its own.

Have you read Under God by Toby Mac and Michael Tait? It has a lot of good essays of racism during our history. There is also a list of resources in the back. Also, check out Peter Marshall’s books on American History–you’ve never read it like this before!

Go for it! I will be praying if you do!

Democrat indoctrination doesn’t exist?

True story: While working on another degree at a famous, large HBCU in Tallahassee, FL (LOL!!). A student actually raised his hand and asked the professor “What do I need to do to get a “C” in this class?”

My jaw hit the floor.

Merry: That one by “Mr. Lee” was CLASSIC!

“And maybe, just maybe, a private business owner doesn’t want to hire blacks, or women, or whites. Who are you or the government to them whom they should or should not hire?”

If they’re government contractors then the government is telling them how government money will be spent. If they’re not contractors then they’re simply in violation of civil rights laws.

Do you really think that there ought to be whites only and blacks only workplaces?

La Shawn,

Note: No one is talking about being entitled to anything except equal opportunity, which is a basic principle of our country.

You seem to think that there is not such thing as discrimination. True, nothing should be given, but we are talking about opportunity. The fact is that many MOC weren’t even given the opportunity to compete. So if you don’t even believe in providing equal access, then what are we debating here? It would be nice if every firm had an equal opportunity at bids… but that wasn’t the case. Your solution seems to be to allow it to happen and do nothing about it. Sorry, your racial utopia doesn’t exist. I hate the fact that you automatically assume that black people are not qualified.

As for the problems that Chicago has… it’s still a connected city so I’m not surprised by anything that goes on.

The civil rights movement would have happened with or without its leaders. Basic recognition as a human being is a genie that can’t stay in the bottle for long.

Yep, just like in Saudi with woman’s rights.

If anyone cares, do some research on the group “Annoited” and what they have gone through in being a “Black group” and how they face barriers in getting played on “white” Christian stations.

I’m sorry, but when there is racism and/or prejudice in the church, I hold little hope for society at large.

What happens over time is the “lie” gets repeated so often that history is misunderstood (on this issue by people like you DS).

Baklava, I’ve presented supporting information, from white, conservative Republicans no less, to support “my lie”.

I’ve tried hard to be respectful of you. But you have, regularly, misrepresented what I’ve written.

Dell, pass that number to my email address please.

Have I benefited from AA? Yes.
Do I care? No.

I bet the employees of Radio One and now TV One don’t care that affirmative action in media regulations allowed Kathy Hughes to establish the base of her network.

STOP comparing gender to race!!!!!

Saudi women seem to be quite accepting of their assigned roles. It is not fair to project American feminist values onto other cultures no matter how barbaric they may seem to YOU!

There is a lot of merit to how the Saudis interact with each other in terms of gender.

MY Girl: GREAT POINT! Vijay Singh is darker than all but one or two Black folk I know and he and others like him seem to do quite well inspite of their BLACK skin.

Re. 60 and 61.
Check out the immigration preferences for the U.S. You will find that it’s biased towards professionals. Added to that, people who emmigrate from a country are more likely to be stellar in the first place.

My father, a poor Jamaican, wouldn’t be given the chance to immigate today vs. in the 50s when he came here.

“And maybe, just maybe, a private business owner doesn’t want to hire blacks, or women, or whites. Who are you or the government to them whom they should or should not hire? - LaShawn”

LOL…

The government has THE RESPONSIBILITY to correct what in economics are called the negative externalities caused by freedom and the free market. For example, we have rules against toxic waste dumping that causes profit reduction in plants because of the necessary clean up. Externality correct via government regulation.

Why was Jim Crow wrong? Why was segregation wrong? Why was sharecropping wrong? Why was redlining wrong?

Take your arguments to their logical conclusion and you can justify any form of none physical behavior as perfectly acceptable in a ‘free’ society and a ‘free’ market system.

For example, if I have a black and white equally qualified, or a black more qualified than the white, yet I like white people better therefore hire the white, why is that wrong? Is it wrong?

If I am a bank owner and I decide not to lend to a black because I don’t like blacks even if the ones are applying are credit worthy, should that be OK in a free market democracy? It is the banks money and their loss of profit. If endemic in a society is a polarized racial attitude that arbitrarily effects one race and benefits economically or psychologically another is this wrong? And how do you correct it in a free market democracy?

There is a book out called the economics of discrimination. The fact of the matter is markets aren’t rational, and people DONT always do things in the best interest of the business irrespective of emotion.

So how do you solve this dilemma?

————————————————-

I am going to email the phone number out to you who asked for it. I will clear up the schedule for the 21st cool?

“Tell me, why is it that dark-skinned immigrants succeed where black Americans fail? Perhaps because they don’t walk around with their hands out, knowing that if they want something in this world, they’d better be prepared to earn it. Just a guess - LaShawn”

Your guess is partly right, but limited in scope. Read any analysis on developing immigrants and you will see a consistent pattern that was denied the African Slave in the development of culture.

Remember the largest FORCED migration in the history of the world occurred during the 200 years of slavery. We didn’t asked to come here. So that shifts a variable.

Secondly, there was no homogenous ‘BLACK’ culture, and no corresponding sense of original nationality and unity. An analysis of any developed immigrant in this country shows a deep attachment to their indigenous culture that is modified to maximize American capitalism. The Black American has no indengous identifiable history, or at least on that is taught and can be embraced.

Third, insulation of language was not in place for the black. This variable provides insulation and cohesiveness in purpose and economic development for the specific immigrant group whose native language is NOT English. It provides a barrier to entry to outside businesses.

Third, traditionally, the human capital of immigrants is/was higher, for example much of the non-refugee immigration is of individuals from affluent and educated overseas families.

European settlers, although many (like the Irish) had a rocky start, they were able to assimilate much easier into the mainstream American culture due to skin color accessing the majority stream of wealth.

For many of you who haven’t studied African American history, there would be times during segregation where a visiting African would be allowed to sit in a restaurant that excluded indengous American blacks.

The point being that to compare Black Americans to any other immigrant population is an incorrect comparison all the way around. The black American experience must be evaluated according to the experience of the black American as no other people group in the world were subject to the same or even similar variables.

Until you do that and create solutions based upon that data, you analysis will always be cliche’d, limited, and of questionable value.

Alright Dell, if it is the forced migration during slavery & cultural destruction that lies at the heart of the problems plauging the black community in American now, why is that blacks are doing worse now, than in the pre-Civil Rights era.
The levels of education, employment, marital rates, out-of-wedlock-birth rates, as well as mortality & morbidity rates are much, much worse for the black communtiy than it was fifty years ago. Surely you can’t blame this on slavery & JIm Crow?

Raymond LOL, your insight on current social situations is always brilliant and jam packed with hardcore analysis, heck, you could be the next Al Franken of the republican party if you work a little harder at using words larger than one syllable. Dat dawn sof ejication is paying big dividends huh?

Where are SCSI & Andy, when you need an intelligent conservative. Sigh.

Ny Girl, thank you for an intelligent question. The problem was…gulp…sorry Martin Luther King….integration.

As you stated, during segregation, there was forced insulation and economic self-reliance such as was seen in movies such as Rosewood (with Ving Rhames). The problem was that seperate but equal was seperate and unequal, but there were benefits to segegration.

As mentioned above with new immigrants, segregation forced blacks to a large degree, to create run and manage their own institutions. That doesn’t mean there wasn’t classism, but the fact of the matter was that a black doctor was right down the street from the black blue collar worker. This forced mutual reliance on in certain ways between classes within the black community as economic existence was interdependent upon the black members of the community. Etc. money circulated hands in the black community and if you know about economics recirculated wealth benefits the community it recirculates in.

Of course external problems such as redlining, and the composite effects of Jim Crow and racism in the supply chain limited the growth of urban enclaves and black communities, but the enclosed communities in many instances like you suggest were improving.

Bam, integration provided options for middle class and affluent blacks to move away from urban centers thus destabilized the developing communities. Now you had no immediate socialization role models of doctors, as the doctors left the community, as well as lawyers etc. It became more important for the black professional to demonstrate his status by moving next to whites or the pure economics of ‘going where the money was’. When there is an absence of history developed culture that demands certain communal behaviors, integration reduces community partipation. It was legal, but not necessarily healthy.

Now what you have are urban centers that produce blacks after their own kind, poverty begats poverty irrespective of race. Inept public education that doesn’t train for the economic and social realities the urban blacks face today, lack of sustain economic development initiatives that create community control and ownership are not in place and a general economic discombobulation and lack of understanding of the negative influences of capitalistic materials have us for the most part locked in a spiral of uncompetitiveness in relative terms.

That is why if you ever read the post where I outlined my solutions, I attempted to address these core issues in our urban communities.

One final note. It sucks when you have one people group with a project 33% of all of its males projected to spend some time in the prison system in the next 30 years, with females projected to have 50% of all the abortions within the next ten years, with two million more women then men because of early death and other dilemma’s and 40% of that groups children born in poverty TODAY, and all the conservatives can say is ‘It’s a black problem’. I would think it would be an American problem don’t you?

Remember, blacks didn’t control legislation, or major economic areas that were external to their communities, and were excluded through policies from ever developing to that point.

Reply #75:

I am glad that you are here.

Dell, OK, you are conservative, but there really is no need for the ad hominems. Even though I behave like a “blacksheep conservative” at times, I respect all opinions here. Try not to get too hyped by the rhetoric. Seems like making enemies and having your conservative credentials called into question comes pretty easy around here when people disagree with you. It’s all good. Your points are well taken, but I simply don’t need to hear that story over and over again.

I suppose my jab at you is that while you covered the bases, some of us have move beyond the problem identification stage and are now in the solution implementation stage.

raymond:” there really is no need for the ad hominems”

This one I like.

I must agree with you Dell, the Repbs are not doing enough community outreach. Not that this is an excuse, but one of the hurdles to that is, the entrenched ‘leaders’ of the black community i.e. Sharpton, Jackson et. al. attack those who don’t kowtow to them.
However, you are right, conservatives should have the courage to defy these bullies & get involved. Thanks to your shameless plug (bad, bad)I will check out your site ASAP

NYgirl,

I think many people are attacking the solution offered. Conservatives remedy for black people is to end AA so white people won’t think black people got a position they “think” the black person is not qualified to do. Many black people disagree with that solution offered. The solution that black people offer is AA and more funding for education and community development incentives. A lot of conservatives disagree with that. So what’s the solution.

Personally, I agree with vouchers but when Chicago tried the program it didn’t work because there were too many students and not enough slots in other schools for parents to choose from. Less than 20% of eligible students were able to move to different school. So what did Chicago do? They went back to try and improving all of the schools.

There may be a lot of solutions available but in this political environment, I don’t think any good ones will fly.

Thanks for the reply, James. I agree that there is too much partisan bickering over vital issues.

What do you think of the role of the MSM in all this?. You hardely ever hear anything other than the Sharpton, Jackson lines on issues in the black community. This situation is mirrored in educational institutions such as universites too.

Plus, how many times can a conservative show up with a conservative solution, and not be welcomed (or worse) before he stops going back?
I’ve seen it first hand, working with groups like habitat for humanity and the knights of columbus. There is plenty of racism to go around, plenty of bigotry and prejudice.
However, I am curious Dell, Raymond aside, what has been said that would induce you to rip out someones eyes? I’ll admit, my hackles can go up when all whites get lumped together, as if they are a monolithic group. Like Howard Deans many comments… it does make me wonder which party he is trying to get into the Whitehouse in ‘08.

I must agree with you Dell, the Repbs are not doing enough community outreach. Not that this is an excuse, but one of the hurdles to that is, the entrenched ‘leaders’ of the black community i.e. Sharpton, Jackson et. al. attack those who don’t kowtow to them.

Funny thing, the same thing was said before Reagan went to the union strongholds to say what he stood for.

The fact is, the paternalistic and prejudiced mentality of people who believe that Blacks follow the “Black leaders” is the problem. Oh, and those who know otherwise but push that message for their own gain.

James: You’re on FIRE today, baby!

DarkStar, you said:
“The fact is, the paternalistic and prejudiced mentality of people who believe that Blacks follow the “Black leaders” is the problem.”

Tell that to the people who have been vilified by false accusations from “Black leaders”. Tell that to the companies who have endured shake downs by these guys.
True, not all Blacks follow them, but many do, or at least it looks like most do, as these groups tend to be more visible & politically powerful.

James, if I may ask, what is your opinion of Jesse Jackson?

If Blacks disagree with them at times, why are not vocal in expressing it?

NYGirl, is “your” — general your — ignorance the responsibility of “you” — general you — or Blacks?

Keep reading. Wait until LB approves my list of questions.

James Manning in #96 nails it. Now, if you really are an independent thinker, ask yourself why it’s not reported when Blacks disagree with said “leaders”?

For those who care to follow up on my questions

http://www.visioncircle.org/archive/004232.html

Reply #97:

Because most blacks don’t have the media platform to do so. Several years ago Jesse Jackson got involved with some kids that got kicked out of school for fighting. We all saw the video tape of the brawl. Most black people agreed that most of the kids deserved the punishment.. some didn’t but Jesse moved for all the kids to return to school. But Jesse got the camera and those who disagreed with him did so with no spotlight. That’s the way the media works.

If Blacks disagree with them at times, why are not vocal in expressing it?

And my answer: Because the media won’t report it.

My follow up question to you: Why do you assume that if the media doesn’t report it, it doesn’t happen?

Reply #101:

There have always been black people to succeed in the face of insurmountable odds. We’ve always saluted those that achieved great things. Condi Rice and Colin Powell are no exception – although I disagree with their politics. I believe my father achieved a great deal just surviving the rampant racism of southern Arkansas in the 60’s. I think we can appreciate what prior generations accomplished and we are able to eat some of the fruits of their labor. And yes, some of us have squandered that fruit.

But I’m still waiting on some conservative policies.

Reply #103:

You can’t.

What a blog thread this one is. You know, one of things I enjoy about blogging, especially at CONSERVATIVE blogs is that the onion is peeled back, and the tart, tear-jerking layers of the ideology spews out. Oh, you get your occasional quacks and whack-jobs, but for the most part, I enjoy seeing the non-politically correct mental process of right-wingers. There is little room left for doubt after that. That’s why I post FACTS and RESEARCH to bolster my opinions, saw the unfettered ID is revealed for all the eyes to see. Nobody responded to this research by Devah Pager I posted on another thread about equal opportunity, but I would LOVE to hear NYGirl’s take on this:
>>>“These were equivalent job applicants in every respect, with the exception of the fact that within certain teams we assigned one of the job applicants a felony conviction,” says Princeton sociologist Devah Pager.
After the testers applied to some 1,500 employers for 3,500 jobs as busboys, couriers, deli clerks and more, they found, according to the Pager: “The effect of race was just as large if not larger than the effect of a felony conviction. So blacks with NO criminal background were no more likely to receive a call back or a job offer than a white FELON. And it really suggests that being black in America today is equivalent to having a felony conviction.”
…All things being equal, a black man with no criminal record was about half as likely to get the job as an equally qualified white man, and had the same, or slightly less of a chance of getting the job as a white man with a criminal record. That is despite laws making it illegal to discriminate on the basis of either race or criminal history in New York.”
http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=6&aid=51561
Dagney writes:

>>>In fact I learned that the GOP first proposed civil rights legislation as far back as 1888! Moreover, I learned that the president who was “forced” to sign it into law, i.e., LBJ, had voted AGAINST such legislation for all the time, about 20 years, he was a senator from Texas! I hate being lied to, and learning that, I began my gradual journey to the RIGHT! BTW, I still listen to Rush!”

Here’s something I would love for Dagney to comment on. An infamous quote from LBJ that is not only contradictory to his statement, but deflates the sails of most arguments about mindset of the Southern Strategy:

>>>>>>David Halberstam, in his book on the Civil Rights movement entitled “The Children”, quotes Lyndon Johnson talking with Bill Moyers right after the Voting Rights Act of 1965 had passed by large margins in the Congress of the United States. This positive vote followed the arousing of the public’s consciousness by the Abu Ghraib-like use of dogs and fire hoses on black citizens in Alabama. Klan groups, under the direct protection of Southern State Troopers and local police, had also attacked blacks with baseball bats and lead pipes in public places, which had been seen on national television. Moyers expected to find President Johnson jubilant over this legislative victory. Instead he found the President strangely silent. When Moyers enquired as to the reason, Johnson said rather prophetically, “Bill, I’ve just handed the South to the Republicans for fifty years, certainly for the rest of our life times.”
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:EVxelBcQvrkJ:users.erols.com/kmdavis/lbj.html+Lyndon+Johnson,+Civil+Rights+Act+1964,+quotes&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Well, hey…that’s “angry old white men” politics, right? I mean—it’s not like there’s some “white power” movement trying to infiltrate the youth of America, right? And if there is, nobody affiliated with the GOP would have anything to do with it I’m sure.

Whoops.

>>>The Washington notables lunching at D.C.’s exclusive University Club one day last summer were doubtless unaware that America’s leading neo-Nazi and a couple of gussied-up Skinheads were dining in their company.
But there they were, National Alliance leader Dr. William Pierce at a table along with two Skinheads and his host Todd Blodgett, a former Reagan White House staffer, GOP strategist and associate of national socialists, finalizing Pierce’s takeover of the most lucrative white supremacist enterprise in North America: Resistance Records.
By October, Pierce had paid out nearly $250,000 to acquire the “white power” music label’s compact disc catalogue, inventory, mailing list and publishing arm — an enterprise that, all told, could inject hundreds of thousands of dollars into Pierce’s wide-ranging neo-Nazi operations…
Although Resistance has been dormant for close to two years now, at its height it was selling an estimated 50,000 racist CDs a year and grossing, according to one of its original founders, $10,000 a month….
The purchase positions Pierce extremely well.
Not only could Resistance put serious money into the Alliance’s coffers, but it is very likely to help America’s preeminent neo-Nazi organization bring in many new followers, both in the United States and in Europe, where racist rock ‘n’ roll is booming.
“As Resistance Records regains strength, that acquisition should add an increasing number of younger members in the 18 to 25 age range, to our ranks,” Pierce wrote recently. ”
Like I said, you folks can follow anything you wish. That’s the beauty of America. But I certainly wouldn’t consciously associate MYSELF with movements like above, or any of the following folks:
>>>Democrats on Wednesday denounced a Republican lawmaker quoted in a newspaper as saying the GOP would fare poorly in this year’s elections if it failed to “suppress the Detroit vote.”
State Rep. John Pappageorge, R-Troy, acknowledged using “a bad choice of words” but said his remark shouldn’t be construed as racist. Pappageorge, 73, was quoted in July 16 editions of the Detroit Free Press as saying, “If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we’re going to have a tough time in this election.”
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:PUaatKxhrKIJ:www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm20777_20040721.htm+%22suppress+the+black+vote%22,+Pappageorge&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Umm…Pappageorge is something else alright….but he sounds like a low budget UPN sitcom next to 2004 GOP Congressional Candidate from Tennessee, James L. Hart:
>>>Our cities are being destroyed by dysgenic welfare and immigration. Why does Detroit look like it was hit by a nuclear bomb and Hiroshima look like it was on the side that won the war? Everyone knows the answer but is afraid to say. Because genes have a more devastating effect on civilization than nuclear bombs, and the reason for Detroit’s decline is that there are less ‘favored races’ in Detroit with an average IQ of 85 and more ‘favored races’ in Japan with an average IQ of 104. (It is noted there are less ‘favored races’* in Africa south of the Sahara with an average IQ of 70-75, which accounts for the extreme poverty there.) Richard Lynn’s book, ‘IQ and the Wealth of Nations’ has clearly shown that the prosperity of a nation is determined in large measure by the average IQ of the population. The poverty genes of less ‘favored races’*, which are spread by welfare and immigration, are destroying our cities no less than if they were hit by a nuclear bomb. Massive uncontrolled and illegal immigration portends not just the destruction of a few cities but of our whole civilization itself. If we had integrated with less ‘favored races’* centuries ago, there would have never been an electric light. There would never have been an airplane. Unless we stop dysgenic welfare and immigration policies, the US will look like one big Detroit.”
http://www.jameshartforcongress.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=2
What about more upscale Goppers? How ‘bout good ol’ Haley “don’t take my picture down from the CCC website” Barbour?”
>>>When he ran for the Senate in 1982, a New York Times report said:
“The racial sensitivity at Barbour headquarters was suggested by an exchange between the candidate and an aide who complained that there would be `coons’ at a campaign stop at the state fair. Embarrassed that a reporter heard this, Mr. Barbour warned that if the aide persisted in racist remarks, he would be reincarnated as a watermelon and placed at the mercy of blacks.”
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:yJQ2lseJYO8J:www.commondreams.org/scriptfiles/views03/1029-04.htm+GOP,+racist&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
You may ask yourself, “Why does Cobra go there? Why does he dredge up all this stuff about Republicans. Well, It’s your party, and I’ll pry if I want to.
http://www.thecobraslair.com/images/GOP-CHESS.gif

–Cobra

You know, Cobra, breaking up the paragraphs with space would make your posts more readable. - Admin

I gave up after the so called “reasearch project” that was done in the controlled environment…
back to my popcorn and reading

# 75
No, that is how it is mischaracterized. Try, it is an American problem, and blacks need to be active participants in the solution. That is the conservative posistion. And there are plenty of blacks stepping up and doing just that.
Here is a challenge: Find me one republican office holder (county dog catcher and the like don’t count) or prominent conservative scholar, who takes the “It’s all up to the blacks now, time to abandon them” posistion you imply (in more than just post 75).
If you find one, I bet I can find at least 10 others who land on him/her with both feet in their disagreement.

Cobra, as near as I can tell with your screech, if you had more column space, you would have gone back far eneough to cover Jesus. And gleefully point out to us that Jesus’ message is pointless and the epitome of hypocrisy cause he was personally close to Judas Iscariot.

That Jesus would promote Judas to Chief Treasurer of his Fishers of Men party, prior to Judas’ betrayal is simply shocking. Shocking indeed.

But that’s ok. Where we tend to disown our prodigals, the other side wraps theirs ever closer and elevates them. I guess it’s just a matter of time before your ship comes in as the official White House Artiste. A matter of long, long time.

James Manning wrote (# 108):

“But I’m still waiting on some conservative policies.”

I think that this is sort of the point that libs don’t really get: conservatives don’t believe in tailoring policies (read: pandering) to specific groups. The object of across the board tax cuts, NCLB, Social Security reform, etc. is to help EVERYBODY.

What would you like to see? Congressional districts in several states are gerrymandered to all but guarantee that those states will send at least one black American to Congress (I live in such a district). The Supreme Court ruled that law schools are perfectly within their rights to accept less qualified applicants in order to get ‘diversity’. There’s a US Civil Rights Commission and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, both of which exist in great measure to provide extra protection to black citizens. What more do you want? Reparations for slavery?

I’ll attempt to answer your questions, Darkstar:

1. It would be interesting to see a poll of black Americans to see how many support the NAACP and its positions vs. how many are active members.

At any rate, the NAACP ‘leads’ the black community because they’ve annointed themselves as such and the media and DNC have played along.

Kind of like how we conservatives are ‘led’ by Rush Limbaugh: the media says so.

2. I wasn’t aware that ‘black conservatives’ spent much time worrying about the NAACP. Then again, the only ones I read on any regular basis are Drs. Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell.

I’ve always kind of felt that any criticism of the NAACP gets squashed in the media. Sacred cow and all that sort of thing.

3. Because homosexual marriage and vouchers are hot-button issues, and black views on them depart from the liberal script. That makes it newsworthy.

4. Hmmmm… An interesting question. I suppose it depends on which part of the media:

Liberal news media: blacks are almost uniformly liberal, hate George Bush, have personally experienced racism, wouldn’t have any success in life without government programs, were cheated out of their votes in 2000 and 2004, and think Jesse Jackson is the godfather of the civil rights movement.

Hollywood: blacks are either drug dealing, murderous thugs; tough but foul-mouthed and undisciplined soldiers or cops; lovable but clownish members of the middle or upper classes; or smart-mouthed, jive-talkin’ sidekicks. Naturally, there are some who are portrayed as intelligent, courageous, wise, etc, but it seems to me that the thug or ‘minstrel show’ predominates.

In general, I don’t think blacks are portrayed fairly in the media.

5. Hard to answer. I think that conservative media outlets like Fox News, Rush, and other talk show hosts tend to be more fair. For example, there are several black columnists (Williams, Sowell, Parker, etc) at Townhall.com who are not rabid liberals, which is refreshing.

6. Again, this is where libs don’t really understand conservatives. What does ‘profiling black conservatives’ mean? If somebody is a conservative, I’m not really interested in what color his skin happens to be. Our gracious hostess is conservative. She’s also black. So what? Are we white conservatives supposed to dissect her to see what wedge issues we can use to get her vote? Or do we simply say ‘She pretty much agrees with us; see ya at the polls’ and let it go at that? Hint: the libs do the first thing, we do the latter.

7. I hadn’t heard of Earl Graves, but I did a bit of reading up on him. I’m happy for him that he’s been successful. The fact that he was in the Green Berets is a major plus in my book. He’s active in Scouting, another good thing. He’s been married to the same woman for four decades, which I admire. He endowed a business school. I haven’t read anything about his politics. Why would I or anybody else castigate this man (unless he’s some sort of pinko liberal, that is)?

Bonus 1: They are? News to me…

Bonus 2: Wait… I thought we conservatives were the biggest critics of blacks.

I’m not entirely sure what the point of your questions is, unless it’s to demonstrate that black Americans are not monolithic, as they are (unfairly) portrayed in the media.

I don’t assume that, but I have not seen demonstrations by Blacks who disagree as I have seen by Black who do agree

Why do there have to be demonstrations. Why not disagreement? And do you listen to Black talk radio?

Man, some of the negativity around here is astounding.

I’m reminded of the old Chinese proverb: “It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.”

Cursing the darkness makes about as much sense as drilling a hole in the bottom of a boat, and then complaining that the lousy ^%$&@#$^ piece of junk boat is sinking. Not exactly productive behavior.

….i guess you could say we are stuck in the “storming” stage of group formation. To heck with “norming and performing.”

Some people just like to fight (debate). How boring this world would be if there were no problems to solve. Would we not cease being human?

Darkstar wrote, “Yep, just like in Saudi with woman’s rights.”

Last I knew Saudi people do not have the means to change thier theocratic dictatorship nor do they want to much (the people are more radical than the rulers). The more I read from you DS, the more I laugh.

#73 Dell wrote, “you could be the next Al Franken of the republican party if you work a little harder at using words larger than one syllable.” concerning Raymond.

Dell, I’ve determined he’s a liberal plant. He isn’t helpful to any goals of conservatives.

Dell #80, wrote, “The fact of the matter is this, the Republican Party has done a great job of telling black people they are stupid, thugs, lazy etc.”

And then I read this junk from you. Lies get half way around the world before truth gets it’s boots on.

Why the untrue accusations Dell? You might be able to point to a Republican that stated what you said just like someone else can point to a Democrat who has said these things.

How is it helpful to the debate and why do you project something you may have heard from one person onto an entire party when for 99% it isn’t true.

It’s irresponsible. One post I say you are a unique thinker and this post I must say that those statements are just awful.

Darkstar wrote, “I must agree with you Dell, the Repbs are not doing enough community outreach”

Yep.. .And I remember on La Shawn’s posts on this subject months ago we had this discussion.

See #131

Darkstar #98 poses some questions for “conservatives”. I’ll take the challenge.

1. It’s well known that the membership numbers of the NAACP has been steady since about the 70s. Given that the American Black population has grown, essentially, the NAACP membership has fallen. If the NAACP is a group that “leads thoughts” of Black people in the U.S., how is it that its membership numbers are steady with the average age of NAACP members rising?

Premise of question is flawed. You stated it’s “well” known. I didn’t know. I didn’t research. The first I heard is from you. If it’s true then the question I would have is why doesn’t the main stream media report it?

2. With question #2 in mind, how is that public Black conservatives only point out the membership troubles of the NAACP, but never publically point out the criticisms of the NAACP by “non-conservative” Blacks?

Again. The information hasn’t been on screens in front of me. Nor have I heard it on CNN, Foxnews or talk radio.

3. With questions #1 and #2 in mind, why is it when it is reported that Blacks who have been polled favor “conservative” ideas like vouchers or support heterosexual marriage only, none of the conservative critics of said “leaders”, try to find out other areas of disagreement?

While I’ve heard the soundbites, you are right I haven’t also heard the counter disagreement areas in those SAME stories.

4. With #3 in mind, do you believe that the images of Blacks, by “news media” is accurate?

Nope. I don’t believe anything the dominant main stream media says. I wish more people didn’t. I try to point out the inaccuracies daily. It isn’t just race. It’s the environment, economics, budget, taxes, regulation, etc. In fact, images of CONSERVATIVEs aren’t accurate. How’s that one.

5. With #4 in mind, if you do NOT believe the images of Blacks are totally accurate, have you ever wondered why conservatives, of any race, have tried to give a more complete picture of the Black community.

Conservatives try to give a more complete picture of theirselves. Time and media cost money. Why would the conservatives focus on anything else than the conservative message when “we” are fighting daily disinformation about us (Even from people like you). Every American can then decide whether or not they like the liberal/Democrat or conservative/Republican message and vote accordingly.

6. To go further, if there is indeed a “silent conservative Black population”, why are there no efforts by conservatives to profile the everyday “conservative Black population”?

It is up to each and every individual conservative to stand up for themselves and try to correct the dominant main stream press. Conservatives are doing this daily. La Shawn has her voice.

7. If you believe that “standard” conservative image of Blacks, do you believe that Earl Graves, publisher of Black Enterprise is someone who is castigated or cheered?

Already addressed. I don’t believe.

Bonus questions:

1. Why is it that the biggest critics of the NAACP, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton, are not white conservatives or Black conservatives, but the general Black population?

If that’s true, hopefully the dominant main stream press will report it to the extent that they feel shamed to even speak in public anymore.

2. Why is it that the biggest critics of Blacks in the U.S., are Blacks?

To the extent it is true (some argue it’s conservatives), I would say because Blacks are interested in their well-being. Just like I’m interested in my family’s well being.

By the way, there is NO SUCH THING as THE black “community.” That concept is cliche’ but most of all it is a myth. Blacks are every bit as heterogeneous a demographic entity as any other large group.

Blacks are liberal, moderate, conservative, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, dumb, smart, educated, uneducated, gay, normal, poor, rich, middle-class, Catholic, Jewish, Baptist, muzlim, red state, blue state, suburban, rural, urban, light, dark, brown, mixed, athletic, clumsy, etc…..

THEREFORE, trying to appeal to this mythical “black community” is about as stupid as trying to herd cats.

Bak,

Point taken.

I’m going to put it like this: The average Joe doesn’t read beyond the ‘talking points’ on politics for the most part, hell I’ve been guilty of not examing issues as closely as I probably should. The conservative message I think is getting through to black people (or is already understood) but a lot of folks can’t separate the message from the messengers (Republicans) because of folks like Trent Lott and Rick (??) Santorum. Let’s face it, they are some straight up idiots.

I don’t think it’s pandering for conservatives to go into the black community to lay out the ‘message’ and present it coherently. Better yet, compare/contrast to folks can visually understand the differences. I don’t think Repubs have done a good job of that at all. And sending Ken Hehlman (the head of the RNC) to Howard to talk to some college kids isn’t enough. Believe me.

Going to a college campus is just asking for trouble. You need to wait until those younguns start earning a paycheck and the gubmint starts ripping them off too before they will listen to anything labelled as “conservative.”

Baklava,

See this re Santorum: In particular the last two excerpts from his new book. I actually agree with the first one.

http://capitolbuzz.blogspot.com/2005/07/santorum-book-excerpts.html

And let’s not forget about the debacle where he equates the legalization of gay marriage to opening the floodgates to man-animal sex. I’m going to have google that one for you.

He probably is a smart man, he probably needs a better comminucations staff.

I guess.

The one quote by Santorum in the link provided was:
“In far too many families with young children, both parents are working, when, if they really took an honest look at the budget, they might confess that both of them really don’t need to, or at least may not need to work as much as they do… And for some parents, the purported need to provide things for their children simply provides a convenient rationalization for pursuing a gratifying career outside the home.” (It Takes a Family, 94)

And I agree with it. I had friends who had a baby bought a new house and new SUV and just didn’t know how to manage the money. ONE of the parents could’ve stayed at home if they honestly looked at they way they lived. Santorum in the quote didn’t specify the mom. But the liberal blogger angrily titled the post “Keep the Mom at Home”. Yuck. I didn’t move on after I saw that one. No point. Sorry. In this case it wasn’t HIS communication staff it was the liberal blogger misrepresenting things.

BTW, To me it’s not about the individual politician it’s about the message. Often times a conservative’s message is misrepresented.

That’s not saying the conservatives are perfect, it’s just saying that often times a liberals’ take on a message and stating it out of context and misrepresenting the message does nothing for a true debate about the message.

Santorum could’ve truly said something that even I disagree with or that may out of his thousands of spoken/written words could be labeled as not so smart. Just to say, I would probably agree with Santorum and trust his message way over Corzine’s or Reid’s or Durbin’s. Why? Not because of the individual but because of the consistent message that each of them represent over time.

James:

Get out of my head! I agree 100%.

# 149,not long ago, in a fit of Raymond, I suggested declaring politicians a game species, even if the season was only one weekend.
No, don’t call the secret service on me… but the idea is not without appeal some days.
Or maybe jst a mandatory day in the dunking tank…
tiffany, James, how much would you pay to dunk Sen. Santorum?
Bak, Andy… how much would you pay to drop Hillary R.C.?

Hillary understands conservatism perfectly. She just doesn’t like it. Conservatism is not consistent with her quest for power via huge government control of our lives, which she, in her infinite wisdom, would oversee.

A dunking tank! I like it! Can we use ice water?

James, there’s our common ground, the universal, and wise, distrust of politicians.

SCSI, I’d give a couple hundred dollars to dunk cHillary in ice-cold water, provided that the money goes to my favorite charity and not her PAC.

James, I’m down with you about jaw-jacking around beer & pizza. Lessee, 6 liberals from here… You of course, Steel, Mike M., DS, Tifany and *.

Just leave Cobra & Actus out, they’re liable to be wearing the beer instead of drinking it.

That’ll be something to blog about, no?

Re 136: THEREFORE, trying to appeal to this mythical “black community” is about as stupid as trying to herd cats.

Then why do Republicans, who are supposed to believe in individualism, afraid to address Black groups that are together because of a specific interest, like business development?

I can’t speak for them, but my guess is that they perceive such groups as hostile since blacks tend to be left-leaning. This is different but a quick example: Bush snubbed the NAACP but spoke at the Urban League. The NAACP has been openly vitriolic toward Bush, all over the newspapers with “American Taliban” references. He righteously ignored them.

Reagan spoke to a hostile crowd of union members.
Gingrich addressed the NAACP.
Reagan addressed the NAACP.
G. H. Bush addressed the NAACP.

The example I used was based on Republicans in Maryland not addressing a Black business group in P.G. County, Maryland until Lt. Gov. Steele started pushing Republicans to do so.

The same goes for Republicans, even though invited, refusing to come onto Black talk radio to discuss issues of the day. This is something that J.C. Watts and Armstrong Williams stated needed to be changed.

On the national level, when BET had news talk shows, Republicans refused to come on and then would complain about the Democrat leaning of the show.

The same happened in Maryland before Erhlich and Steele. Both appear on Black radio, and have friendly conversations with, the hosts. (Of course, they don’t appear as frequently as they do on conservative talk radio stations). This is “especially surprising” because the WOLB morning show host, Larry Young, is a hard core liberal Democrat who heads the Baltimore chapter of the Black Action Network. It should be noted that the Democratic mayor of Baltimore, O’Malley, refuses to appear on the Larry Young Morning Show.

It needs to be noted that Republicans in Maryland complained about their image in the Black community but, for the most part, refused to do anything about it. When Steele was placed into the head position of the Republican Party in Maryland, one of the first things he did was to get a weekly radio program on WOLB, the Black talk radio station in Baltimore. The show was lively give and take. But according to the “mean Blacks against Republicans”, he should have never had the show because Blacks “don’t want to hear Republicans.”

Maybe it’s me, but it appears that public conservatives keep saying that Blacks are diverse in opinion, yet turn around and treat Blacks as being of single mind. Otherwise, they would not fear going to speak to Black groups.

LaShawn, my bad. I’m not a writer I’m a code slinger.

Plus, I’m terse by nature.

Plus, my mind jumps around and, in comments, I write as I think.

Darkstar wrote, “Once again, won’t address that I quoted conservative Republicans. Who is convicted?”

You. You’re obsessed with some strategy that I never knew about until you came along that existed decades ago that Tony Snow was addressing as existing decades ago with a few politicians.

You want to act like Tony was addressing it as if it existed today because your perspective is WHACK (because you’re obsessed).

Darkstar wrote, “Why are you relying on the MSM when you know they don’t report accurately?”

Boy you have things backwards. I don’t. And neither should you.

Don’t attack me for answering your questions

That’s not an attack, it’s a serious question. You are lambasting me for things I think and saying it’s not based on facts. You are admitting that you knew nothing about the membership levels of the NAACP, but conservatives in general paint the picture as if the NAACP controls most Blacks minds.

Maybe this should be a clue to you as I tried to make it that the main stream media is not on your side and not reporting things that YOU care about.

Well, maybe you missed the many times that I’ve stated such.

Is that clear now Darkstar. Now learn from the answers….instead of obsessing.

Umm…
Your answers are showing that you are ignorant of some basic information, but are making conclusions based on your lack of knowledge.

Thanks for playing…

You want to act like Tony was addressing it as if it existed today

This is why communicating with you is hard. It’s because you intentionlly distort the things people have written that you disagree with.

I never wrote the Southern Stategy existed today. I’ve always written that Blacks lack of support, today, is partially based on the Southern Stategy that existed.

There’s a difference.

And that’s not the first time I’ve told you so.

You keep spreading your misinformation about what I have written.

This is at least the 3rd time I’ve pointed this out to you in detail.

Darkstar wrote, “Your answers are showing that you are ignorant of some basic information, but are making conclusions based on your lack of knowledge.”

You challenged a conservative to answer. See if I ever answer your IRRELEVANT meaningless questions again. They don’t matter. Nobody ever asked questions like you do. I answered them anyway to give you the clue that 2 things:
1) NAACP is irrelevant
2) Main stream media is not on Black america’s side and reporting things that you want them to

Yet you RAIL against conservatives.

How dumb ar you?

You have two choices in America. Vote Democrat or Republican. Figure out which message is better and vote.

What we do here is banter around ideas and solutions but instead you act like the typical liberal and bash/accuse/mischaracterize conservatives due to YOUR lack of understanding is about our message.

Again..

Darkstar wrote, “Your answers are showing that you are ignorant of some basic information, but are making conclusions based on your lack of knowledge.”

Basic information? That’s your opinion. NAACP membership numbers is not basic information and they are IRRELEVANT. And now so is your opinion. Because you have shown the lack of ability to learn from the answers I gave to YOUR questions.

Well. I’m a little bit ornery tonight. And it really gets into my skin when someone asks irrelevant meaningless questions and I take the time to give my perspective and instead of learning from it he bashes me.

My perspective again was that the NAACP is irrelevant and the main stream media isn’t someone to listen to. I should’ve just written that 10 times instead of answering the questions because he’s clueless about what I’m trying to say.

I’ll quit now. I have to pick up my twin sister. She’s flying in from VA (to CA) and I have to clean and put new sheets on the bed.

My mistake.

You keep referring to the Tony Snow article as if it PROVED that SS was happening to the year 2000. And Tony was REFERRING to the policy that existed with Nixon decades earlier.

Reading Comprehension. I admitted my failure in being exact now please for once admit that it didn’t go on till 2000 just because Tony Snow wrote and article about it in 2000. Read his words again and pinpoint exactly where Tony referred to it still going on. You can’t.

LB, thanks for allowing me to play. I appreciate it.

Continue here if anyone wants to do so:
http://www.visioncircle.org/archive/004232.html