Mostly all terrorists who’ve killed innocents by beheading them or blowing them up, or are plotting to blow them up have been standard-issue, young Muslim men of Middle Eastern descent. But common sense and potentially life-saving profiling of young, Muslim men of Middle Eastern descent is…racist?
Tell it to commuters and soon-to-be grieving families (because there will be another attack on our soil). I’m glad I don’t ride the DC Metro anymore.
(Hat tip: Wizbang)
Update: Having a place to publicize my views and being in a country that allows it is very empowering. I feel sorry for those who aren’t as fortunate. If people don’t like this post, for example, they never have to cast a shadow over my URL again. Ever. They can’t shut me up, shut me down, or demand that I hold opinions they approve of.
America is a great place to live.
{ 63 comments }
I sure wish we could find another word since “profiling” carries such a long trail of baggage with it. (Even though “a rose by any other name, smells the same.”)
Yes, we should profile, but not to the exclusion of common sense. Of course, there are those outside the profile who are engaged in this terror.
I have entered Spain from Morocco a number of times over the past 30 years. Believe me that the Spanish give the Arabs a good dose of profiling. In spite of that, they suffered the train bombing in Madrid and the terrorists were from, you guessed it, Morocco. I can only imagine how much less safe Spain would be if they had not taken the precautions over the years.
I use Spain as an example, because it has on-going problems with the Basques and their terror bombings. The Basques are not readily identifiable to the other Spanish, so they are harder to “profile.”
The Brazilian who was shot in London died from profing in some respects. However, his actions just prior to his death certainly elevated the probable cause to consider him an immediate danger.
Those who oppose profiling are most concerned with the results of its errors and those who would apply it abusively. I would not discount their concerns. However, if we move ever closer to a state of “martial law” we must all understand that the rules change entirely.
Just today a plane bound for Europe was landed in Boston because the crew became concerned about three Pakistanis on the flight. (I think I have facts correct.) The end result was that the three were removed and later released to continue their trip.
They were profiled and their actions aroused suspicion. But we don’t always have to have some guy trying to light a fuse in his tennis shoes before we take action.
So far as the three inconvenienced Pakistanis are concerned, I can only quote Mark Twain: A man who sets out to carry a cat by the tail is learning useful information.
If you are in the group being profiled, you bear the burden of being closely watched. Perhaps the best way to handle that is to be as open and cooperative as possible. It is still a burdern, but a bearable burden if your mind is not closed to your own fantasies and to the ringing of the bats in your belfry.
One thing also that is most interesting to me LaShawn, is that the Brits call the terrorists who blew up trains and bus’s as ‘bombers’ rather than terrorists. Sounds like the dumbing down of the language as not to ‘offend’. These terrorists have been offending and terrorizing others, yet we don’t want to make them ‘mad’. They already are.
As for the racial profiling…when we see that most of those who choose to do these acts or to blow themselves are of the same middle eastern disent, we can only be more cautious. It’s too bad, and it does lump people into a sterotype.
We need to be wise, and look at those who do suspicious things. Those who cry ‘racism’ are fools, in thinking that it is something against those who are of eastern dissent, to be hassled.
I think that the police, etc, are trying their best to protect all of us from those who prey on innocents, and who cannot defend themselves. They don’t even have time to defend themselves, because who expects a bomb to go off at your favorite deli or the train ride home?
There will certainly be another attack since we’ve spent so much money in Iraq and not enough fortifying US targets.
I recall a time when profiling was considered effective police work.
Exactly what does a “young Muslim man” look like?
It would help to know if you’re considering profiling.
–Cobra
Another crazy comment. Just check out the pictures of the young Muslim men who’ve done the bombing, and YOU tell ME what they look like, “Cobra.” – Admin
I agree that it’s just a matter of time. It’s that simple.
Looks like this
http://www.extrospection.com/archives/2004/08/IMG_7156.jpg
or this:
http://www.livingpictures.org/imagespeople/infant3.JPG
or this:
http://www.careervoyages.gov/images/photomomwithkids.jpg
or this:
http://www.shareittoday.org/media/image/general/mom_and_kids.jpg
Let’s waste resources profiling the above people.
That’ll keep us safe. Wasting resources…
Why bother with profiling? I’m surprised at your timidity La Shawn. Why not just have all Muslims rounded up and imprisoned? You can always shoot them if they complain.
Rich, my brother in Christ, I really hope Islamofascism, bombings, and beheadings in the name of Allah rile you up as much as my mere words. Your sarcasm is very unbecoming and poorly executed, so to speak.
Just stop calling it “racial” profiling and call it criminal or terrorist profiling or how about just call it “Common Sense Preventative Counter Measures.” Or if that is too much of a mouth full, call it CSPCM.
Did anyone hear that lunatic, racist male version of the orange haired psycho Julianne Malveaux on “The Sean Hannity Show” this afternoon. The eternally angry guy goes by the name of Leo Terrell. Quickest clown on the draw with calling someone a racist who doesn’t agree with him. He sounded like a complete fool. He is the type of garbage that infects the so-called “black community” and keep people feeling entitled, dependent and victimized.
Profiling has been and will always be a useful police tool. Whether we like it or not, race is a part of that profile. As with any tool its effectiveness depends on how well trained are those who use it.
In the case of the London police, we have to realize that the situation that day was NOT normal. It was KNOWN, not just suspected, that terrorists were trying to kill civilians that day.
I am sure that the London police (and other police departments in the West) will learn from this case. My concern is that civilians will NOT learn from it.
If immigrant communities’ leaders, especially Muslim/Arab immigrant communities’ leaders do NOT stop with the ‘we are victims’ routine and start educating (yes, I said educating not just talking about) their communities’ residents then I am afraid that more WILL have to die because of this self-imposed ignorance.
Remember slogans like ‘loose lips sink ships’ and so on. This wasn’t just propaganda; it was a serious effort by the government to educate the public about how to act during the war.
We need to start thinking about doing something similiar today. Terrorists have shown that our civilian areas are not strickly civilian anymore. We need to wake up to that fact and start acting accordingly.
But, La Shawn, you’re glad you don’t ride the DC Metro anymore? Try New York on for size. Here’s what some folks in New York are doing:
No Subway Searches.org
Thankfully it isn’t everybody, in fact it isn’t even most, just a few spoiled Upper West Siders who think they are better than the rest of us. Let them take a cab!
LaShawn,
the Muslims in this country and particularly Arabs have used racial terms of the civil rights era. It is religious and not truly racial profiling that should be done. Older people that are black or white and not Muslim should not be randomly checked. A medal of honor winner was checked and stopped for having the Congressional Medal of Honor which he got in WWII. Some idiot guard at airport thought it could be weapon. A lot of your older people and some young veterans have pins in bones due to wounds. PC (Political Correctness) has gone too far. Soldiers (any service) and male or female in uniform should be left alone. God bless and keep America.
James M. Barber
Yes, indeed. Can’t profile at all. Bad stuff, profiling. If there has been a series of bank robberies perpetrated by a gang of middle-aged bald white guys, then of course we should try to catch them by staking out the homes of 20-something Puerto Rican women.
Would profiling have helped in the situation cited by Mark Steyn?
“WITH hindsight, the defining encounter of the age was not between Mohammed Atta’s jet and the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, but that between Mohammed Atta and Johnelle Bryant a year earlier. Bryant is an official with the US Department of Agriculture in Florida, and the late Atta had gone to see her about getting a $US650,000 government loan to convert a plane into the world’s largest crop-duster. A novel idea.
The meeting got off to a rocky start when Atta refused to deal with Bryant because she was but a woman. But, after this unpleasantness had been smoothed out, things went swimmingly. When it was explained to him that, alas, he wouldn’t get the 650 grand in cash that day, Atta threatened to cut Bryant’s throat. He then pointed to a picture behind her desk showing an aerial view of downtown Washington – the White House, the Pentagon et al – and asked: “How would America like it if another country destroyed that city and some of the monuments in it?”
I remember when the first Gulf War started and I was babysitting for my neighbor who had a 4 year old boy (and a very precocious one). He was watching the news and saw footage of Saddam Hussein’s Republican Guards. He knew who Saddam was, but when he saw the film of the guards his eyes widened and he exclaimed “They all look like him!”
Cracked me up. It was the dark hair, dark eyes, mustache… If a four year old can see some racial characteristics, then why can’t some liberals??? (Oh yeah, blinded by the PC light…)
LaShawn, I don’t think Cobra’s comment (#5 above) was “crazy” at all. Certainly it’s a question that the law enforcement officers who are doing the profiling have to ask themselves. Don’t you agree that in order to profile, you have to have some basic framework for evaluating a potential threat?
And with that, Cobra’s comment gets at why profiling may not be an effective security measure — terrorists don’t all look alike. Remember John Walker Lindh? He sure didn’t look like an Islamic terrorist (at least when he cleaned himself up), and yet there he was in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban, which means he could just as easily have been one of bin Laden’s minions. If a terrorist knows that there is a profile being investigated, all s/he has to do is dress differently or wear their hair or makeup or what have you so that they no longer fit the visual profile.
Some people certainly are having a fit over the civil liberties issues here, but the real problem with profiling is that you could be spending an enormous amount of money on something that may not provide any real measure of security.
La Shawn
I believe it was Voltaire who said, “I disagree with what your saying, but I wll defend to the death your right to say it.â€
I think mostly wrong on this issue, but if Mr. Bush sends me recall orders I will be happy to defend your right to say it.
I couldn’t agree more, LaShawn. On one hand, it’s scary to say – it makes me shudder to think of what happened to the Jews in Europe, for instance, or black people not so long ago in our own nation. But in those cases, they were false ‘profiles’ – based on nothing more than ethnicity and skin colour. This situation, on the other hand, is much different: all the attackers have been of a certain origin, and therefore, is it so wrong to keep a sharper eye on them? No, it isn’t ‘polite’ – to them. But it’s polite to the rest of us!
I do agree with the first commentor that we perhaps need to find another word for ‘profiling.’ The libs have done a fine job re-naming abortion with ‘reproductive rights’ (massive oxymoron) and ‘pro-choice.’
I also think you are correct that we’ll be hit again. It could be any of our big cities, or the smaller onesl. It’s horrible to think about…and I suspect that the guilty will, as usual, not be blamed.
(PS to LaShawn – I’m engaged! I’m engaged! No wonder I’ve not been around…
)
I am not certain why so many folks think profiling is restricted to how “someone looks.”
Why does an 80 year old lady with a box of cookies get the exact same attention at the airport as a single, young male with a passport from a country that produces problem types?
Is it not a tax on the the fresh wits of an inspector to have to deal with a troop of boy scouts on their way to a jamboree in exactly the same manner as a line of 20 something men with passports from Egypt of Pakistan?
Do I understand that if common sense discrimination is not 100% perfect then every single soul should be treated the same? What kind of resource overload insanity is that?
Guess what? If you are flipping back and forth between Pakistan, you had darned well be setting off alarms, no matter what you look like.
Now I happen to have a friend who has written children’s books in Urdu and he flys to Afghanistan and Pakistan often. He always gets checked thoroughly. Guess what his profile shows? He has worked in counter-terrorism with INTERPOL for 30 years!
Why do so many people leap to the conclusion that an effort to streamline common sense is a conspiracy to crush civil liberties and ignore the wide range of possibilities?
Frankly, if our protective forces were as short-sighted as so many of these protestations suggest, we would all be either dead or checking out the direction to Mecca.
I thank God every day that I was born in the US. The passport I have is one of the most coveted in the world because it represents freedom and opportunity. Some people in repressive countries are blissfully ignorant of their limitations, but once they get a taste of freedom of thought, they’re trapped. People in the free countries in the world are incredibly blessed.
The time is coming when profiling won’t matter. Our prisons are being recruited by al Qaeda and others in order “to lower the groups’ Arabic profile”. This according to Stephen Hayes
And don’t look to DHS for help. They’ve given you a color code, but told you nothing. There are specific things we can all do to raise our alert levels, but DHS hasn’t seen fit to tell us what those are. I doubt that communication between agencies is one whit better than it was on September 10, 2001.
Sorry to sound so cynical, but I’m
SickAndTired
Note: my comment above was in response to La Shawn’s update. I know guys who are profiled in airports because they have Iranian last names, and they look Middle Eastern (they’re half Iranian, half European descent). It’s just something they have to deal with.
Next thing ya know, 13 year olds will cry “profiling” for being stopped from buying Jack Daniels at the 7-Eleven. And the libs will come running to rescue their civil liberties.
This country is flat-out “PC paralyzed.”
What if Muslim terrorists paid non-muslim, non-middle-eastern men to place bombs on subway trains and then leave before the bombs exploded (e.g. not a suicide mission)? (Kind of like what MIGHT have happened in London, had the carriers NOT been muslim.) I think for say ten thousand dollars, terrorists could find someone to do something like that. Wouldn’t profiling young male muslims actually be a liability in a case like that? Whereas with a perfectly (a term I use loosely) random bag-checking scheme, these would-be bombers might be deterred because they know their non-muslimness won’t allow them to escape the possibility of being searched. Also, a random search policy still deters (or so it seems) muslim suicide bombers because there is never any guarantee that they wont get searched — again, due to the randomness.
Spade
Spade,
You’re not too far afield, either. Read this article from CNN in March about an Aryan Nations leader reaching out to Al Qaeda:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/29/schuster.column/
Secondly, it’s not that simple to identify a “young Muslim man.” The country in the world with the largest Muslim population is Indonesia. I would pay cash money to any blogger here who could correctly identify an young Indonesian man on a crowded NYC subway platform, from the incredible melting pot that is Manhattan. I mean, could you tell him from a Thai, or Malaysian? Could you tell a Lebanese teenager with a buzz cut and baggy jeans apart from a Columbian on a skateboard listening to his I-Pod? Algerian can pass for Greek? Palestinian for Israeli? Albanians and Croatians are every bit as white as the Dukes of Hazzard Museum in Tennessee, and don’t even get me started on inter-ethnic offspring and what THEY can look like.
Islam is a religion, not an ethnicity, and since there are a Billion of them on the planet…
–Cobra
Right, Cobra. So the photos of the similar-looking young Muslim men who did the bombings are…meaningless and unconvincing? I’m glad that all you do is talk instead of make important decisions. – Admin
Nice to see someone with the courage of their convictions and the rare gift of common sense. Let the wooblies prattle on. You may be a Cassandra but you are right. The ones that attack you are craven knaves.
You’re right about the DC metro.
This is a tough subject to be sure…….Not the idea of profiling which is an excellent idea but who exactly?
Yes we know the majority of Islamic terrorists are Arab or Pakistani Males but Muslim terrorists can also use blue eyed white Bosnians or Turks or Black Americans or Oriental looking southeast asians………and you can bet that is what they are trying to do….
Islam sadly doesn’t discriminate……it will turn any race into monsters……if we are going to profile, we are going to have to develope some kind of Islamic quiz or something to that effect to find out a person’s belief…….and since Islam allow’s for lying to achieve its end, it gets even trickier…..yes we obviously need to be doing more, but eventually these bastards will get through no matter how stringent we are!!
Islam has been doing this for 1400 years…..and now finally we in the West are starting to get a taste of the madness of Mahound!!
Also, to Richard Hall, how very un Christlike of you to lie and misrepresent LaShawn and how dare you make such a stupid flippant remark!!
Perhaps you are a good little dhimmi that Islam loves to use but the reality is that Islam is out to slaughter or enslave us all and has been trying to do to all of humanity for 1400 years!!
Dear Rich…….how would you deal with the Islamic menace ole bean?? I guess the bombings on your Subway system havn’t yet awakened you from your pee cee slumber??!!!
Perhaps it is time for you too read the Quran and the Hadiths for a refresher of what the Arab Hitler had in mind for all of us in Darul Harb!!
Again, your comment reflects badly on you ole bean!! And as one who claims to be a Christian, I at least expect some degree of intelligence and discernment in these dark days of which we live!!
Perhaps when Cardiff is bombed by the followers of Mahound you will start singing a different tune……..and believe you me, it’s only a matter of time!!
Who was being flippant?
If we are at war, and it is Islam which the enemy (as many here seem to believe), rounding ‘em up is the only answer that makes sense in your scenario.
I reject the “war” scenario utterly, because I know that Islam is not our enemy. I don’t deny the very real problem with Islamic extremism in the world, but that is no more “Islam” than the IRA were “Catholic”.
So what will I do? I’ll continue to do my little bit to promote peace and understanding between Christians and Muslims. It isn’t much. But it’s a start, old top.
PS Proud Albertan: London does not have a Subway. Here, it’s called the Underground or the tube. Just so you know.
And of course I believe that those who’ve committed terrorist acts should be pursued, tried and punished. They’re criminals.
How, praytell, do we go about finding these criminals, Richard? –
Heliotrope: “Mark Twiain: A man who sets out to carry a cat by the tail is learning useful information.”
ROTFLOL
BTW, I have had a couple scares passing thru Basque country in the early 90s and having a native or two become too interested in the Yankee. When they saw my TX plates, all they wanted to do was talk about Dallas. Sorry, no hable Espainol.
.
Profiling does work and the LE use it all the time, they just have to be PC abourt what they say and do, but all the same, a good cop worth anything will discreetly use it. Thank God for that and hopefully SCOTUS will undo that travesty ASAP.
Typical of the knee-jerk liberals is to throw more money at screening everyone. Talk about dumb as mud.
On one hand they rant about SUVs and traffic, and on the other, they think we should expend all resources on 100% screening.
So when being screened taakes more time than it takes to get from A-B, what’s a normal person gonna do? Drive!
D’oh!
And double d’oh, when terrorists figure a car bomb would be more effective in a NYC rush hour than on the subway. I suppose the libs will then call for screening of every car.
Why don’t we cut to the chase and assign everyone a security minder? That way we’ll have 100% security 100% of the time.
Yeah, that’s the ticket, money grows on trees, so let’s throw it at every issue.
How stupid can we be to deport these men? They will laugh their a**es off and be back as soon as they can to fulfill their plan. This is an unconscionable lapse. We have them in custody. Lock them in jail and throw away the key!
How, praytell, do we go about finding these criminals, Richard?
I believe the police have their methods, La Shawn. And they seem to be working in Britain.
What are “their methods” that “seem to be working in Britain”? There were two attacks in two weeks! Exactly what is “working,” Richard?
No attack in America since 2001. Either the U.S. is incredibly lucky, the terrorists incredibly stupid, or our intelligence agencies are doing things we don’t know about.
Instead of getting snippy with me, you should be very angry about what’s happening in the UK. It’s always discouraging when men in particular jump all over me for wanting to protect people from terrorists. I feel like I’m doing their job, and it doesn’t make me feel secure to know that men just aren’t made the way they used to be.
Yeah, no profiling, that IS the way to go.
Nothing like when flying starts up again after 9/11, they take my 60 year old white mother out of line into the back room and make her remove her blouse so they can check that she’s not carrying something (underwire bras)…
Ya know, I don’t care if you like profiling or you don’t. When it comes to MY life? I EXPECT THE RIGHT PEOPLE TO BE CHECKED. 99.9% of the time, the RIGHT person is young….middle eastern…..Islamic…..wow….My own bit of profiling, and guess what? It’s spot on.
A 60 year old caucasion women is NOT a good candidate for terrorism, don’t like it? I don’t care, pull the people out of line that are MORE likely to be the right ones….
LaShawn writes:
>>>No attack in America since 2001. Either the U.S. is incredibly lucky, the terrorists incredibly stupid, or our intelligence agencies are doing things we don’t know about.”
How do we know there have been no attacks? I seem to recall deaths by Anthrax mailings. They went unsolved. And why do you believe Al Qaeda works on OUR time table? It was eight years between World Trade Center attacks. It’s only been four years since 9/11.
–Cobra
Snippy? Hardly. I just disagree with you. I don’t think I’m the one being snippy here.
(I know, I just used the word 3 times. I don’t think I’ve used it before and I’m wearing it in.)
In light of everything I said, you choose to focus on the word “snippy?” OK, Rich. Too much energy, too little time.
How is it that there are still people who do not believe that this is a religious war?
Do we need to profile Jews, Baptists and Hindus?
I do not know the per centage of Muslims who are engaged in the crusade of “death to the infidel.” Neither do I know the percentage of Muslims who are passive toward the slaughterers among them.
But I darn sure know that Buddhists in Thailand are not beheading Muslims over religion. The Hindus of Bali have not jumped over to Java to kill Muslims. The Dutch have not murdered a Muslim activist and pinned scripture to his chest.
How else would we deal with this religious war on our civilization but to profile?
As to getting someone else to do their dirty work: Hello? Just which fatcat Imam do you recall putting his own tail on the line?
Men of ill will have used boys to do their bidding since forever. There is nothing quite so pliable as teenage boy or an under twenty-five man who has a good dose of testosterone fueled ideology.
Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Mao, etc. all knew this and used it remarkably successfully.
The one difference I will credit the radical Islamists with is they seem to have been able to get their young women into the “martyr brigades.” Throughout history, women have almost always been smarter than that.
True story.
I met this nice black girl a while back. After some conversation she mentioned that “They were profiling” around a certain neighborhood. I was curious as to what she meant by that so I asked her. She looked at me like I was stupid and struck a profile pose and made a shutter-clicking noise!
To this girl, Racial Profiling means the cops stand around taking pictures of all blacks for their “FILE!” This is the kind of rubbish that black “Leadership” does little to counter. How can we produce good citizens when we enable lefty-racist propaganda like this?
Youre right La Shawn men of todays stock tend to be a little brianwashed by liberalism, not to protect themselves, not to protect others, not to feed thier family, not to do much of anything except be a pushover and give his money up when asked by the government.
Its this sort of thing I began to notice and got angered by. I started learning about the 2nd amendment and thinking what it meant to actually be a male. And what society says it is today is sadly not close to reality. I am still learning myself.
There may not have been an attack since 2001, but that doesn’t mean they’re not planning. They are willing to plan for years, so we shouldn’t let down our guard.
Count me in on La Shawn’s side in this discussion. Profiling based on objective, observable criteria is most logical. And a woman shouldn’t have to feel she’s doing a man’s job!
I was trying to let it go, La Shawn. Making it clear that I disagree, but walking away. But…
“I really hope Islamofascism, bombings, and beheadings in the name of Allah rile you up as much as my mere words.”
Your words rarely rile me up. But for the record, bombings, beheadings and the rest do. But you seem to mistake my unwillingness to regard every Muslim as my enemy as a lack of resolve to defeat terrorism. It just ain’t so, but I doubt i could persuade you.
“It’s always discouraging when men in particular jump all over me for wanting to protect people from terrorists.”
I wouldn’t say I was “jumping all over you” (that would be ambiguous at best on this side of the Atlantic, and my wife would take a very dim view) but I don’t oppose your desire to protect people from terrorism, but rather the manner in which you propose to do it (ie declare war on Islam). Simple as that.
…it doesn’t make me feel secure to know that men just aren’t made the way they used to be
How was I supposed to react to that? I resisted the temptation to make the obvious snarky reposte (I know how you love sarcasm), but really. Is “men aren’t what they used to be” supposed to be a serious contribution to the discussion about how the terrorists’ plans are to be frustrated?
Richard Hall #31 wrote, “If we are at war, and it is Islam which the enemy (as many here seem to believe), rounding ‘em up is the only answer that makes sense in your scenario.”
No. Just checking their bags. I submit to bag checks when I go places. Seems you are the extremist Richard. Conservative types are talking about bag checks and you are talking about roundin’ em up.
Richard wrote, “So what will I do? I’ll continue to do my little bit to promote peace and understanding between Christians and Muslims.”
Negotiate away. Fortunately you can’t negotiate or “promote understanding between them and us” on behalf of the state because a nation should never negotiate with terrorists. That’ll only give a sense to them that terrorism works as a tool to obtain their wishes. YOU need to inform them that it isn’t a tool and they need to discuss things like adults to address any supposed grievances.
Richard, next time take the high road and resist the urge to return.
My comment is just as serious as your comments on this thread. If you want to obscure the issue and accuse me of wanting to make all Muslims the enemy, go ahead. If your penchant for nitpicking imagined points makes you feel like you’re making a “Christian” contribution toward defeating an Islamofascist scourge that needs to be squashed like a roach, I’m glad for you. Meanwhile, I’ll turn elsewhere for common sense and protection.
Richard #35 wrote, “I believe the police have their methods, La Shawn. And they seem to be working in Britain.”
I interpret that you wish for a defensive posture of only trying to find who “will” be terrorizing us. But that means that they only need to elude detection to be successful in carrying out thier terrorizing acts.
Thank God we have people in charge of this country who realize that the terrorists only have to be right once to succeed in a terrorist act and we have to be right 100% of the time to stop all terrorist acts SO we are on the OFFENSE. We are taking for the first time the war to the enemy.
Your mentality was pre-9/11 mentality. We woke up to the fact that we can’t prevent them all and to rely on that would be disastrous.
The question here, which seems to have gotten lost in the acrimony, is whether profiling on the scale we’re talking about is a more effective security measure than other means of investigation and/or intel gathering. Put better, how much of a role should profiling play in the investigation/intel process? Should it be a primary means of investigating somebody? Or would the resources required for pulling off profiling on such a large scale be better pumped into other areas of intel gathering, like for instance improving signals intelligence to intercept and analyze communications?
The US had mounds of signal intercepts (like cell phone conversations) from terrorist operatives prior to 9/11 that clearly pointed to something major about to happen, but there were not enough human beings on the payroll of the NSA to analyze it all in time. So if you have, say, $10M to spend on either paying cops and FBI agents to profile people, or paying to hire more NSA sigint people, what split of the resources leads to the greatest increase of security and the most effective counterterrorism scheme?
That’s the real question up for debate. The answer doesn’t seem obvious to me at least, and I don’t think it’s fair to equate misgivings about profiling (whether they are pragmatic misgivings like the ones I’m describing or moral misgivings like others have written about with de facto femininity or being brainwashed by liberalism.
Oldie but goodie
Let’s pause a moment and take the following test.
In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped & massacred by:
(a) Olga Corbutt
(b) Sitting Bull
(c) Arnold Schwartzeneger
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40
In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
(a) Norwegians from Ballard
(b) Elvis
(c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
(a) A pizza delivery boy
(b) Crazed feminists complaining that being able to throw a grenade beyond its own burst radius was an
unfair and sexist requirement in basic training
(c) Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
During the 1980’s a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
(a) John Dillinger
(b) The King of Sweden
(c) The Boy Scouts
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40
In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:
(a) The Smurfs
(b) Davy Jones
(c) The Little Mermaid
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40.
In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, & a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:
(a) Captain Kidd
(b) Charles Lindberg
(c) Mother Teresa
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40
In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
(a) Luca Brazzi, for not being given a part in “Godfather 2″
(b) The Tooth Fairy
(c) Butch and Sundance who had a few sticks of dynamite left over from the train mission
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
(a) Richard Simmons
(b) Grandma Moses
(c) Michael Jordan
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40.
In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
(a) Mr. Rogers
(b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill’s women problems
(c) The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain: “Mustapha the Merciless”
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed & thousands of people were killed by:
(a) Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd
(b) The Supreme Court of Florida trying to outdo their attempted hijacking of the 2000 Presidential election
(c) Mr. Bean
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
(a) Bonny and Clyde
(b) Captain Kangaroo
(c) Billy Graham
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 & 40.
Hmmm …………. nope, ain’t no patterns here.
If I am correctly understanding the core of some of these posts, I feel it is fair to say those of us who favor profiling do not see it as the magic bullet in the anti-terrorism arsenal, nor do we think it is without legitimate complications.
But not to use profiling against radical Islamists it to send our protective forces into the fray without allowing them to use common sense.
What is so complicated about that? However, I must admit that if I am addressing someone who firmly believes that the Islamist terrorists are not motivated by religion, then I stand mute and completely unprepared to have a logical discussion. I really do not believe these people act out of having a flouride problem or problems with ingrown toenails.
Don’t waste precious oxygen, Heliotrope.
Richard while it is true that not every Muslim is a bad person and indeed most I’m sure are fine, Islam itself is very much the enemy of mankind just as Nazism and Marxism were also….but Islam has been for 1400 years…..
Do you understand what a dichotomy is? And I ask that seriously and not in a facietous manner!
Have you ever read the Arabic Mein Kampf, the Quran and the Sahih Hadiths??
How can you be so dangerously naive about the times we are in???
Do you find Islam pretty and just another way to god/allah etc etc??
I am interested in your responses!
Thanks
Don’t waste precious oxygen, PA.
One last comment, and then I promise I won’t come back to this.
La Shawn wrote:
If you want to obscure the issue and accuse me of wanting to make all Muslims the enemy, go ahead.
I’m not accusing you of anything, La Shawn. I’ve been reading your site a good long time and it is my impression that you do regard Islam itself as the enemy. If I’m wrong about this, then i deeply and sincerely apologize. But I gained this impression from the things you have written yourself, from the people you have quoted with approval (or otherwise) and from the many comments that have gone unchallenged. As I say, if that impression is mistaken, I’m sorry – I’m not going to go looking for “evidence”. But I did happen to have kept this quote which formed the basis of one of those “blog posts that never made it” (I’m sure you have those too!):
“Muslims are trying to take over the world, and what’s going on in Chechnya is nothing new or unexpected. The spread of Islam, radical or otherwise, in my opinion, is the most urgent crisis facing all of us. What are we doing about it? Well, we’re currently engaged in a politically correct “war†against a bunch of rag tag misfits. Let’s see what else. We’re bowing and scraping before “peaceful†Muslims in America and being careful not to offend them (although these same Muslims are not speaking out against this scourge!).”
I promise – I won’t comment in this thread again. With regrets to the Proud Albertan.
Richard, what is your point man?
Richard……get this through your head….Orthodox Fundamental Islam….the Islam of the Quran and Sunnah are the ENEMY…….not all Muslims obviously hold to literal fundamental Islam and for that we can all be thankful….
But yes, just as Islam’s cousin’s Nazism and Marxism were the enemy, so is Islam…..to suggest otherwise displays a horrific ignorance and dhimmitude of what Islam is really all about!
Here’s a suggestion Richard…..befriend some Ex Muslims and talk to them about what Islam is all about!! You will be educated my good man……..and in the English Isles, their are thousands and thousands of brave ex muslims…
And remember this Richard before you spout off about how nice Islam is……..those people that have left Islam are too be executed as per that degenerate Muhammed’s teachings in the Sahih (Authentic) Burkari Hadiths….
Any movement that has to kill those that dissent is a movement that needs to be destroyed or at least tightly contained!
Thanks
La Shawn: I would like to make the following remark as my contribution to the anti PC theme.
“You are quite attractive for a smart person”. There I said it and intend to stand by it.
I commute via bus and train every day. I’ve pretty much made my peace with the situation. I go to church more and have increased my prayer life. One day when it finally happens I just hope I’m not sitting on the wrong bus and I hope that nobody I know gets killed.
Kimberly, Isn’t it a shame that you even have to pray to God that this so-called evil, islamic “peaceful god” thing doesn’t kill you and then send you to hell for being an infidel.
Let not your heart be troubled. Jesus will deal with this allah thing in due time.
Those who will make like sheep will certainly be eaten by the wolves.
We must use all tools available at our discretion, including the ones that some people don’t like. We are far more threatened by the government via the Kelo decision, taxes and feel good social engineering than we ever could possibly be by profiling. If you want outrage, then be mad about the government taking too much money out of your check, or curtailing your free speech rights through McCain-Feingold. Better yet, get angry about the government misplaced priorities in DHS monies, making it a pork-barrel project instead of its intended job.
Think of all the liberties that we have already allowed the government to take. Why are you so inclined to complain now???
I guess, Kimberley, that that means you hope someone you don’t know gets killed. As long as your wishing someone dead why not make it the murderer?
Comments on this entry are closed.