In my short time as a conservative, I’m always pleased to see another black conservative boldly speaking out against collective self-pity and victimhood. Unfortunately, some hold on to remnants of distorted, blame-whitey thinking. The black subculture and our attachment to it is very strong, and blame-whitey habits die hard.
You will never hear me say that racism per se doesn’t exist. My purpose is to encourage blacks to understand what they’re capable of despite racism. Racism, in whatever form, is not “holding us back.” At this point in history, it is a sad reminder of how it held back many, and its residual effects will live on. Racism and bigotry are not “white” traits, however. They’re human traits. The next time you call a white person a “racist bigot,” stop and examine yourself. Someone somewhere can truthfully say the same about you.
I ran across an article written by a black conservative type (he may not be), and I really liked it. But the author meanders down the “blame whitey” path. Here are a few things that flaw an otherwise good article:
- Use of the term “African American” (See the rant).
- The assumption that racism causes black failure.
- That it is “racist” to lock up black criminals at higher rates than other races, deny them loans because they have bad credit, deny them government contracts because they either bid higher than others or aren’t as qualified, etc.
This sort of thinking leads to “defining deviancy down.” Instead of encouraging law-abiding behavior, developing good financial practices and competitive businesses, the settled and predictable response is to drag down standards for blacks so they are judged separately.
“Racism” becomes a mitigating circumstance for black criminals, banks disregard qualifications and risk money on blacks with bad credit because it’s “racist” to require them to have good credit, and the government, charged with treating citizens equally before the law, create set-asides for black-owned businesses so they can get a “fair share” of the city’s business. At the same time otherwise intelligent people think all this is “fair.”
- The assumption that individualism is “mean-spirited.” I think black people are sometimes afraid to compete and fail, so they hide behind their skin. It’s true that during slavery and legal segregation, a collective mind-set may have been necessary for our survival. But times have changed, and some old things should pass away.
Collective skin color grievances hold people back, not move them forward. Being handed a race-based entitlement (especially from the government) is no different to me than being handed a putrefying steak served on a garbage can lid.
At the same time, I agree with the author’s blacks-helping-blacks idea, but such is not the opposite of individualism, as he implies. In my opinion, individualism doesn’t mean you don’t help others. It means rather than turning to the government for handouts and solutions, you use your own mind, creativity, ingenuity, and God-given talents to help others and yourself.
Having said all that about the article, I still recommend it.
Catch me today on CORE Hour around 3:28 p.m. EDT with Niger Innis, son of Civil Rights veteran Roy Innis. We’ll talk about ebonics and the unnerving suggestion that black kids are too dumb to learn and speak standard English.
The call in number is 1-866-884-TALK (8255).
La Shawn, once again it appears you are dead center in the bullseye. But since I come at this from a different perspective, I thought I’d throw in a comment.
The whole “collective self-pity and victimhood” thing is a national epidemic, and it afflicts all races and all ethnicities. It may be easier to see, and be more institutionalized, as it applies to the situations you discussed, but it’s everywhere.
I knew an old man who spent all his time whining and/or pounding his fist about how much of a victim he was. Why? Because the eveeeel Republicans were trying to kill him by not going along with the federal welfare program for prescription drugs. In his mind, it was clearly a case of the elderly being the victims of the “fat cats” who have everything and won’t share. Common sense never entered this man’s mind. I got fed up at one point, and bluntly asked him why he felt entitled to dip into my pocket and make me pay for his drugs. His reaction was one of total confusion, as he said that he didn’t want me to pay, but rather the government and the “rich b******s” who are hogging all the goodies for themselves. Good grief. I just walked away.
Another time, fairly recently, I was talking to a couple of young guys who had just lost their jobs due to their company relocating the plant to another town about 50 miles away. Their attitude was one of complete self-pity and victimization. They told me that they were going “on the government” because the nasty rich company bosses deliberately took their jobs away. Sheesh. I asked them two questions. First, I asked if they had considered moving to the other town and staying with the company. The answer was no. I then asked if they had applied at the other manufacturing plants in town. The answer was no. In other words, both of these losers had full time jobs feeling sorry for themselves, blaming others for their situations, and waiting for someone else to fix their lives. Pathetic.
Sometimes I think the whole country needs a good strong kick in the pants.
Comment by RedBeard — 07.26.05 @ 9:25 am
Good on ya, La Shawn.
Redbeard, would that be a collective kick in the pants?
Comment by Andy — 07.26.05 @ 9:30 am
I am up and down on this issue for a variety of reasons.
But I want to point out one thing of note.
LaShawn, if you acknowledge that racism exist, and that it must be ‘risen’ above, then you acknowledge that racism has an impact. If it has an impact then it has a cost. If it has a cost then it is presumed that all things being equal, one will not pay the cost to ‘overcome racism’.
Basically, to use an analogy, if me and four other guys are equal, and we all have a task to complete, say digging a 4×4 hole and all four are given shovels and I am given a hoe that is a cost to me and my productivity. Does this mean I can not complete the hole? No. But, being that all things are equal, I will always be behind in the completion of digging that hole. Does that give me an excuse to stop trying to dig the hole? No. I should still try to dig the hole if that is what is required of me to do.
Yet, all things being equal, meaning myself and the other four gentlemen with the shovel have all equal talent for digging, I will never match their rate with the shovel as I have a hoe.
If you acknowledge that racism has a cost, which you do and have done, and you acknowledge that it must be risen above, then logically you have to also acknowledge that racism causes disparity in some form or fashion.
We can discuss the failure of the welfare system, and the need to for certain blacks to take more individual responsibility and be more self-determined, and in that I agree 100%. But to simultaneously disregard racism as a variable that creates disparity, and something that needs to be destroyed or correct simultaneously must be address.
Final analogy, in auto racing to improve speed you do two things, increase the power of the vehicle so that it moves faster (IE self determined behavior, and a go getter mentality) and you also can make the vehicle more aerodynamically sound to reduce drag, (not To Wong Fu
but air resistance) and thus enable the engine to produce more speed with the same out put (IE eliminate racism and other barriers). Both must occur for blacks.
Comment by Dell Gines — 07.26.05 @ 9:35 am
Oooo, Andy said a bad word.
Comment by RedBeard — 07.26.05 @ 9:39 am
Dell Gines
For your analogy to work you should make it more realistic. 4 guys gotta dig a hole, you get a hoe, I get a pick, one guy gets a broken shovel and the other guy gets a bulldozer.
We all suffer racism and adversity. yes white people too, especially white males these days. The point is though that we all gotta work through them, why should 1 guy have the bull dozer provided by the government that Me and the other 2 guys had to pay for? That isnt right.
Comment by Billy — 07.26.05 @ 9:47 am
La Shawn Barber’s Corner » Rise Above ‘Racism’
Pingback by Dell Gines — 07.26.05 @ 9:48 am
Dell, you indicated that 4 guys are given shovels and you are given a hoe. This may sound like a minor point, but why do you assume the tools were given and not gotten? That seems like an important distinction.
And if you do find yourself stuck with a hoe, for whatever reason, the right thing to do is to go find a shovel.
Comment by RedBeard — 07.26.05 @ 9:57 am
Billy first I will ask you a few question:
Can you prove to me that statistically whites in aggregate are affected by the mythological ‘reverse racism’ and secondly in aggregate has it improved blacks positions as a collective?
Also, you are correct, we all face a different set of circumstances, but you also prove my argument to a degree. If you have four sets of individuals with equal ability, and each one is given a more efficient tool for work, then the one with the most efficient tool will produce more work. We agree. The guy with the bulldozer will produce the most all things being equal, the one with the pick will produce the least all things being equal.
Lets take it a step further since we agree in principle. If we are rewarded in relation to our productivity (which we are in a capitalistic society) then the second generation of the individual who had the bull dozer will be in a better position to move forward in a capitalistic society than the person who had the pick as productivity equals capital and capital allows for more productivity.
So if Bulldozer equals 4 points of capital and pick equals 1 point of capital, then bulldozer child inherits 4 points of capital and pick child inherits 1 point of capital. If, all things being equal, each generation in a competitively capitalistic environment was able to double productivity and therefore capital, by the third generation, (4+8+16) vs (1+2+4), the bulldozers grandchild would have a productivity/capital base of 16 versus a productivity/capital base of 4 for the pick grandchild. So what started as a 4 to 1 disparity evolves into a 16 to 4 disparity. So where the bulldozer started at, in the first year, the pick holder doesn’t reach until the fourth.
See racism isn’t simply a moral issue as we are defining it as today, it is an issue with economic implications that and transitional and generational.
Comment by Dell Gines — 07.26.05 @ 10:00 am
Dell, how about simply taking life as it’s handed to you and making the best of it? Jesus certainly never advocated that the sick, lame, blind, deaf needed some sort of cost factoring to bring them back into mainstream society. He simply healed them and moved on.
Racism is a result of sin, plain and simple. Puting a cost factor on it as you do, does nothing to heal that blight. For all you know, maybe God has ordained that a person will be black and poor for all of his life to His glory. Handicapping the race of life would only diminish His will by weakening the so-called victim.
And like Billy pointed out all diggers are not equal, nor should they be. You think you suffer from racism — blame whitey — others are suffering from tribalism and corrupt dictators which often can be deadly. I can assure you that many would be glad to come here and suffer some of that good-ol’ fashioned racism. What you find abhorrent, they would find as a breath of fresh air, simply for the fact that no one, relatively speaking, is trying to kill them or hold them down for it.
Please, I beg of you, get rid of any and all sense of victimism. That is what is holding the people down that you’re trying to help in the first place. Victimization is the cancer that is eating away the can-doism of the poor black.
Comment by Andy — 07.26.05 @ 10:09 am
Racism is a result of sin, plain and simple.
AMEN Andy !!!
Look how muddled amd messed up things become when we don’t call a pig a pig, a spade a spade, a dog a dog and SIN, SIN.
Comment by Renee (the Orignal) — 07.26.05 @ 10:17 am
Also, all things being equal, a bulldozer can be a net loss as it would be overkill for digging a fencepost hole. Education is the equalizer because a FOOL and his money are soon parted.
Also your formula doesn’t account for the variables in human spirit and luck as it may be. One can have all the right tools and still struggle financially, another could strike it rich while hardly lifting a finger. This also illustrates another problem with help from above; gubmint bureaucrats think they can just apply a magic one-size fits all formula and expect to erase poverty.
As we well know, they’ve been trying for the last 40 years and it hasn’t help, hasn’t held steady, rather it just continues to get worse. But never would it occur to these bean-head socialists that there is no formula and they shoul just stop trying. The invisible hand will take care of it, if only the elites will let it.
Comment by Andy — 07.26.05 @ 10:33 am
Racism does indeed exist, however as Lashawn pointed out, it is but one of the many obstacles a person has to navigate en route to the American Dream. It is but one.
In order for us to get away from using race as a crutch, we first need to send the “old guard” out to pasture. They fought the good fight as it needed to be fought back then, but the landscape and battlefields are new. They need a new type of warrior. Warriors with more brain than passion, bull horns and the ability to organize a retroactive march.
The first steps in getting ALL black people to achieve is to remove the safety nets. Secondly, we need to shut down the race industry and the players who run it. We need to infiltrate the leadership of once noble organizations like the NAACP. Conservatives need to join these orgs, force the old idiots out and redirect them. We need to bolster the ranks of the more conservative black orgs like CORE.
We need to ignore the Congressional Black Whiners who haven’t ever authored a piece of legislation worth a darn.
In a nut shell, it is time for the young bucks to grow up and TAKE the torch from the old goons who refuse to let it go. If this means kicking an old lunatic like John Conyers down the stairs then so be it.
The only Black leader of relevance should be the one you see in the mirror as you brush your tooth.
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 10:34 am
Andy, define victim for me, because loaded language quite frankly disgust me and that is what all of these pigeonholed terminologies do. They thwart effective discussion.
Here is the point, no where in the bible does God say the poor should be happy about being poor, although he did acknowledge as a matter of fact that the poor will be with ‘us’ always. But throughout the bible the ability to remove the poor from the circumstance of being poor is acknowledged as ‘righteous’ behavior. So the righteous acknowledge and enable the poor to alleviate the situation. That is bible basics.
Since we are on the bible theme, and that is a particular area of expertise let’s go back to the OT. God acknowledge the duality between personal responsibility and social accountability throughout the whole bible. A cause and effect relationship, some examples are:
The removal of twelve rocks from the river Jordan to the other side as a reminder to the generations of Gods plan so they didn’t ‘forget’ God. Cause and effect. The structure of the levitical law and the prohibitions against foreign religions and the marrying of individual who practiced foreign religions as they influenced the Israelites towards paganism. The verses that indicate the effects of positive righteous leadership versus immoral unrighteous leadership and its effects on the behavior of the people. In fact, all the books of the prophets detail detail the relationship between culture and spiritual practice and behavior. Cause and effect.
The premise of ‘not forsaking the assembly of the brethren’ is rooted in the need for Christians to have support against a world that draws them towards it. As ‘Iron sharpens Iron, so one man sharpens another’. I could go on and on to detail how culture and environment from a biblical perspective effects personal behavior.
My point is that you can not seperate individual behavior from environmental factors that influence (but not necessarily ultimately determine) that behavior. That is why I wrote the article ‘Passive Racism: Over Emphasis on Personal Responsibility’ http://www.dellgines.com/?p=29.
If would like I could provide you a more detail exegesis of scripture on the issue because if we are evangelicals and we believe in the bible is the unerring word of God and that it is what guides our behavior we must be a certain as possible that our ‘poliical’ positions are being influenced by the truth of the bible and not vice-versa. Wouldn’t you agree?
Finally, in relation to this statement:
“Please, I beg of you, get rid of any and all sense of victimism. That is what is holding the people down that you’re trying to help in the first place. Victimization is the cancer that is eating away the can-doism of the poor black.”
Since I have been 16 I have been working with people who I am ‘trying to help’ and have seen results. Shouldn’t I be the one more qualified at examining what is holding us down?
Comment by Dell Gines — 07.26.05 @ 10:34 am
Racism against Blacks is caused mostly by Blacks themselves.
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 10:38 am
Dell, for you to pretend you don’t know what people mean when they say “victmhood†or “victim mentality†is disingenuous and just as disgusting. The terms you used are just as loaded as you perceive others to be. Your deflecting and know-it-all attitude can be very grating. For some reason you conclude that whatever contribution you’re making to the world is the only “Christian†way.
And this line kills me: Shouldn’t I be the one more qualified at examining what is holding us down? You’ve got to be joking, but unfortunately, you are that full of your own self-worth and “qualifications.” You think living in this fallen world as a black person isn’t enough to “qualify” someone to know what holds others down? That we must have your exact same experience to know what we can see with our own eyes? Good grief. I may be just as arrogant (sinfully) and WRONG, but at least I can see and admit it.
The only arrogance I can stomach on this blog is my own, which I am biased in favor of. Everyone else’s makes me ill.
By the way, “no where in the Bible does God say” the government’s role is to take care of “the poor,” either, and for you as a Christian to assert otherwise to fellow “poor†Christians is…disgusting.
Comment by La Shawn — 07.26.05 @ 10:40 am
I’ve been in situations in the US and abroad where I’ve been the minority, and what I’ve learned is that even though you may experience prejudice, the best way to survive is to align yourself with allies–anyone who sees you for who you are or appreciates and/or needs your skills. Then a path is created for you, even though it may be a difficult one.
Comment by mj — 07.26.05 @ 10:41 am
Some of the more well-known entities in America who are the most racist against Blacks:
- NAACP
- Congressional Black Caucus
- Tavis Smiley
- Tom Joyner
- BET
- Jesse Jackson and Rainbow/PUSH
- Al Sharpton
- Louis “Calypso Louie” Farrascum
- The Public Education System
- The Democrat Party
- Other Black collegues in corporate America (don’t worry so much about the white folk you work with, you’d better keep your eye on the Black folk…especially da sistuhs. Wear a ceramic plate on your back!)
There are many others who create conditions and drill home the message where dependency on others becomes a way of life.
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 10:48 am
mj, that is noble, but I somewhat disagree. I think you have to make your own paths and then people will gravitate towards you. It should not be the other way around.
People recognize honor, pride, Godliness, drive, benevolent ambition and self-sufficiency when they see it and they want to be a a part of it.
When a wall i placed in front of an establishment Black man, he sees only one option. He cries and tries to whine its existence away. When that same wall is placed in front of an American Black Man, we see at least 6 options: Go around it to the left, go around it to the right, go over it, dig under it, blow it the heck out of the way or PRAY that God provides you with 6 more options or takes it away Himself.
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 10:54 am
LaShawn, do I ever attack you or have I ever attacked you personally? Why do you do it to me? I never called you pompous, or arrogant, I never called you a sellout or uncle Tom. I have present positions that are sometimes counter to yours, but I always do it with what I feel is a rational and well defined argument, and not simply name calling.
Why is it that when I debate my position, I am call a know it all, or talked down to in a condescending fashion, etc? Have I offended you in a way I am missing? Or is it the fact that I disagree with you that offends you? Let me know and I will attempt to ‘modify’ my behavior as I respect the fact, as you have mentioned before, that it is your blog.
Let me know the deal sis, dellgines@excite.com
dellgines
Comment by Dell Gines — 07.26.05 @ 11:07 am
So telling others they aren’t qualified to know what’s wrong with the black community but that you are, based on I-still-can’t-figure-out-what is to “debate” your position, and someone calling you on it is talking down to you?
If you’d offended me, Dell, you wouldn’t be here, so no need to wonder about that. Perhaps I should’ve sent the comment in an e-mail, but what’s done is done. And as you know, I have your e-mail address (as we’ve e-mailed each other before), so the dramatic posting of it was unnecessary.
Comment by La Shawn — 07.26.05 @ 11:15 am
I’m not qualified?
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 11:21 am
Going back to the analogy of the shovels & the hoe. A hoe is not a tool designed to dig a hole. If you try and dig a hole with a hoe you must be stupid to even try it. Anyone proud enough to call himself a worker would use the right tool for the job.
What I find interesting in the general discussion, is that many blacks see themselves as victims because they are black, not because they are poor, not because they lack the education or skills essential to move up in life.
The poor credit is the best example. Why on earth would a lender turn away business for no reason? Because they feel that the borrower will default on the loan. If lenders were racist, it would be better to lend at higher rates of interest, than they would lend to whites. (Though in the real world lenders do lend to higher risk borrowers at higher interest rates than to low risk borrowers).
People have got to stop blaming their failures on someone else. Life seldom is fair. Every time you fail, you must try again.
Comment by Shipwrecked — 07.26.05 @ 11:26 am
Requiring people to be of the group that is being discussed is provincial.
Comment by mj — 07.26.05 @ 11:27 am
Just making sure you had it.
In regard to my comment, I was talking specifically to Andy in relation to his statement on what ‘I’ should be doing. But you know, if Andy has spent a significant amount of time working with poor black people spiritually, educationally, and economically, and having the positive results I have had I will defer to his position on it and collaberate on ways to improve mine. Until then, I can only say what I do, and the result I have achieved based upon my Christian beliefs and my inner city activities in that regard. That’s all.
In addition, I believe in the diversity of the body of Christ, and do not believe I have the only way. God provides different gifts for different purposes but as evangelicals we are all subject to the usage of them in light of the scripture. So if you think I am using the scripture wrong I am always open to correction - II Tim 3:16.
At the end of the day, my hope for folks like Andy, and myself, who claim evangelicalism, is that our primary motivations and actions are based in the foundation of loving our neighorbors, and that this is manifested even in our disagreements on public policy and the issue of race.
That is the best I can do LaShawn.
Comment by Dell Gines — 07.26.05 @ 11:29 am
Raymond–what I was thinking of is especially true when you’re in a foreign country, and you have to learn the language in addition to the culture, in addition to looking different than other people. The “self-sufficiency” concept doesn’t work well in cultures where group dynamics and relationships are important. In fact, to be so self-oriented is seen as offensive. It’s even true with certain subcultures here in the US.
I agree with what you’re saying, I just think it depends on the situation.
Comment by mj — 07.26.05 @ 11:32 am
Shipwrecked - “The poor credit is the best example. Why on earth would a lender turn away business for no reason? Because they feel that the borrower will default on the loan. If lenders were racist, it would be better to lend at higher rates of interest, than they would lend to whites. (Though in the real world lenders do lend to higher risk borrowers at higher interest rates than to low risk borrowers)”
Have you ever heard of redlining? That is why CRA was implemented by the Federal Government. Secondly, the higher interest rate thing does still occur if you have been following the news in home mortgage loans. But you are right, poverty can’t be taken out of the equation.
Comment by Dell Gines — 07.26.05 @ 11:37 am
Dell, I’d really like to get down to the nitty-gritty with you on all of your points. But my coffe-break is up and I’ve got a contract to draft up by COB. If you don’t mind, I’d like to try and come back to this this evening.
But I’ll leave you with one real world case study:
When my dad completed his degrees, he had a dream that he wanted to follow. So he applied to every evangelical mission that he could think of, asking to be sent to Africa to educate & minister to the Deaf.
To follow or not to follow a dream:
1) Most of them flat out rejected him:
They didn’t think there were all that many Deaf Africans, if any.
2) Some were receptive, invited him in for an interview, saw that he was black and/or deaf, then found some reason to decline:
Racism? Discrimination of the Deaf? Perhaps. Who knows and who cares, since that’s not the point of this exercise.
3) Only one mission actually offered him a position — in Japan:
Now what’s a Black Deaf would-be missionary going to know about Japan?
So let’s look at the primary issues:
1) Let’s call that “Hearing prejudiced” or Hearing-biased:
As in, “I’ve never seen one, therefore they don’t exist”. This is reasonable from a bean-counting cost-benefit analysis. Certainly don’t want to invest a lot of money in posting a missionary where there is but a handful of targets.
2) As for the very real victimization and discrimination against the Deaf Africans:
Pagan “Hearing prejudiced” societies may view them as demon possessed and/or cursed — which oftentimes leaad to post-birth extermination — but to others, certainly useless and a burden to both their families and to society.
So here we see that the Deaf have a double whammy. On one hand, they’re outcasts in their own society, on the other hand, they were invisible to missionaries out to spread the Good News that God loves them.
Sorta makes your racism victimees rather lame by comparison, doesn’t it?
So according to your sage advice based on years of helping people, what would you suggest or recommend that my father should do to “equalize” his “points of capital” deficit and rise above this environmental roadblock?
Bear in mind this was in the mid-50s, well before AA/CRA, and at the height of Jim Crow — Alabama coalminer’s son who went North to Detroit at age 17 in 1942 in pursuit of an education, not work even though he was deaf. And I would point out that the only way he got his 5 degrees was by aligning with what mj calls plenty of allies.
I eagerly await your answer.
Comment by Andy — 07.26.05 @ 11:41 am
Dell,
I see your point exactly. To disregard racism absolves white americans from having to address racism.
It’s very easy to argue over semantics—as some have about your post; or we cay say—hey, we as americans have to fight racism as we fight terrorism and drugs.
We need to be equally appalled. And we need to put extensive efforts to eradicate it. Not accept racism. Not tell others —that’s the hand you were dealt–deal with it. Not ignore racism.
In this debate about race, people like to ignore a very important element–qualified people not having an opportunity because of their race. That element never seems to get discussed. WHY? Well, to do so makes one have to address individual and community responsibility toward combating racism.
Comment by kathy — 07.26.05 @ 11:46 am
So your proposal, Kathy, is to lower standards for all blacks because in your mind, qualified ones are denied opportunity? If the point is to address discrimination, discriminating in favor of blacks is not a solution, either.
What is the solution? Ask blacks who lived through Jim Crow and lynchings and somehow managed to THRIVE under the government’s ill-treatment. They didn’t have and probably didn’t want the government’s ill-conceived, incentive-stealing, and misguided handout policy so rampant today. Simple, dated concepts like faith in God, belief in family, sacrifices, upright behavior, and hard work are in poor supply these days.
Such would be more productive for our people. Nobody is ignoring anything. We just acknowledge a better way than whining and woe-is-us attitudes. Get your mind off what white people think and do, and forge your own destiny!
Comment by La Shawn — 07.26.05 @ 11:55 am
mj, oh ok. Agreed!
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 12:01 pm
LB,
14 comments to get riled up this morning? This may be a new record.
Dell, the hoe analogy is almost as good as your car analogy (where white people got a Prowler and you had a Yugo).
I’ll play along, however. How many holes will you dig with a hoe before you invest in a shovel?
Now, for a government solution, would you prefer you start with a hole already started, so with the same amount of labor as the other 3 men, you can finish the hole with the hoe, or would you like to be given a shovel?
Once you have the shovel, do you want compensation for all the time you had to use the hoe? How about the labors of your hoe using predecessors?
A previous commentor noted that the other 3 men likely don’t have the same shovels, either. Once you have your shovel (I am assuming you didn’t take the nearly dug hole option), when does the fella with the entrenching tool get his new shovel?
And this doesn’t even take into account the fith man who’s land the first 4 are digging on that was stolen before and during the hoeing of previous work shifts…
Comment by SCSIwuzzy — 07.26.05 @ 12:03 pm
Andy - I suggest that if your father believes this is the mission God burdened him with, then he is to do to pray about it, create a compelling argument as to why that is a necessary mission field, and allow God to aid him in correcting the discrimination within the church and within the culture. Your analogy, or reality if it is true, bolster my argument as opposed to minimizing it.
1. It recognized the reality of a social condition (African Deaf and the disparity in treatment culturally and the need for a ’solution’ IE salvation)
2. It showed the ‘culture’ in power’s misperception of a true need to minister to this population and therefore the continued disenfranchisement of this population.
3. It showed, if what I am gathering was correct, that, “what mj calls plenty of allies.” or people who ultimately supported his vision was necessary to correct the acts of disenfranchisement.
But the point you are leaving out is:
4. The response of the people to this missionary who recognized they were disenfranchised by their culture and by the church. Hopefully the story has a positive ending.
This proves what I am saying, the duality between social responsibility and individual responsibility. Why did you Father not simply say, “those deaf Africans need to stop complaining about being deaf and being the victims of a culture that thinks they are demon possessed and pull themselves up by their boot straps? Because he recognized through faith and God given purpose that it was his mission to be the change agent.
That is why I acknowledge the need for ‘self-determination’ but simultaneously argue that you can not give society a free pass for conditions created by individuals external to the group affected. That is why I lay responsibility at the feet of ‘whitey’ but also at the feet of the ‘black man’. The difference between the Republicans and Democrats in my opinion is that one says ‘its all whitey’ and the other says ‘its all the black man’ and they both fail miserably.
Comment by Dell Gines — 07.26.05 @ 12:03 pm
Let’s just chalk it up to sin, shall we, Dell? That way we ALL get called out. No one is given a so-called free pass, no one is heaped upon, and we can all look for ways to improve the condition of all while we’re in this world. The most important condition that needs improving, of course, is spiritual.
Comment by La Shawn — 07.26.05 @ 12:07 pm
Kathy, you make somewhat of a valid point, but the problem is that even Black people no longer know racism when they see it which means white people have no clue. The reason is that liberals have in a cool calculated manner, redefined the definition of racism so that the term accounts for general personal failure. This keeps people dependent on their brand of “leadership.”
The feminists were successful in doing this with rape. Muddying the waters with that nonsense called “date rape.” It is either rape or it isn’t. “Hate crimes.” It is either a crime or it is not. And don’t even get me started on the garbage that is “sexual harrassment.” I fail to see why it is a crime for men who spend more time at work, a place where 80% of all married people meet their spouses, to ask a broad out on a date.
Granted, after the second refusal, THEN it may become harrassment and I don’t recommend anyone get their honey where they make their money, but geesh, let’s get real.
Anyway, as I have said, racism is but one excuse. I have heard many others that place racism way down on the totem pole. People are just plain sorry and lazy when you get down to it.
We want everything given to us. We want everything now. Think about it. What happens when you go to an ATM and it is out of service? Bet you don’t remember when there were no ATMS and banks didn’t open until 10am. Anyone remember when you had to order a hamburger and fries and then wait about 20 minutes for it to be freshly repaired?
Successful people have patience and they persist. They work through the hard times knowing brighter days will come. They know that when in a valley, the only way is up, but you can’t get out of a hole by crying, whining and moaning and waiting for a rope to just appear out of thin air. Sometimes you have to climb!
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 12:17 pm
Black folk need to quit celebrating mediocrity. Stop making excuses for failure. When little Tyresius and Shaniqualetta come home with “B”s, you show EXTREME displeasure and implement whatever family policies you have created to get them to “A.”
When little LaQuandikalashay gets pregnant at 13, you do NOT throw her a baby shower and invite friends and family over to celebrate the abominable situation.
When Dontavious goes to jail for stealing or fighting or whatever, you do NOT blame it on “the system.”
Celebrate achievement. Reject mediocrity.
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 12:21 pm
Do I really want in on this?
I taught high school for nearly four decades. I learned early on that everyone has his own view of reality. It is made up of personal snapshots in his mind’s eye that are strung together. Eventually, his personal reality begins to color what he meets.
If a child has had an abusive parent and been mishandled by others, he begins to “believe” that certain situtations can not be trusted. I often had to overcome the expectation of some students who believed that no male or no white person could possibly be sincere or trusted.
Unfortunately, some people become so invested in their personal reality, that they allow themselves to believe that they pretty much alone possess the “real truth.”
The good thing about having a strong belief system coupled with an open mind and a well honed ability to listen is that you can often help others bridge the gaps we all have in our personal “realities.”
The world is full of people who do not want to hear your “excuse.” Now that is a true reality. It is up to each of us to figure out how to succeed with that truth. If I can’t get the job because of race, sexual preference, no arm, felony record, ugly face, being too short, etc. I will just have to “pick myself up, brush myself off, and start all over again.”
Sometimes we all need to come together to confront instituionalized bias. I think that is usually a noble cause.
But when you start on a crusade to use government force to change a person’s concept of reality, you had better be very certain and specific about the facts.
Islamists have a very strong belief system and a significant number of them are dedicted to subjugating or destroying those who do not agree with their view of reality. That is an obvious, current and deadly example.
Racism (I include ethnic groups too) certainly has vestiges in this country. If that is part of your reality, I suppose the only friendly advice anyone can give you is to find your way to those who do not punish you with their bias. If you can not find any such people, you need to have a serious, sit down session with your “personal reality system.” You are holding yourself back and in that sense you are a worse enemy to yourself than any perceived bias.
Comment by Heliotrope — 07.26.05 @ 12:28 pm
Heliotrope: Two questions. What is an “islamist” and why did you capitalize the term? Why should people have open minds. I find that an open mind is often polluted with garbage.
I prefer to see people who have learned HOW to think and don’t just let anything into their brains.
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 12:55 pm
Dell said, “Basically, to use an analogy, if me and four other guys are equal, and we all have a task to complete, say digging a 4×4 hole and all four are given shovels and I am given a hoe that is a cost to me and my productivity.”
The fellow starting out with the hoe is at a distinct disadvantage. However, he has a choice.
He can grumble about his lot in life and demand somebody give him a shovel to do the work. While he’s waiting on the government to pass the legislation that demands all people are giving shovels, the other three guys have already made enough money to hire a guy to help them dig holes. The hoe guy gets his shovel, but then realizes he is still at a disadvantage. He starts digging and makes a modest living, but again he grumbles to the government that we should all be able to afford hired help. The other guys have bought new equipment and hired a few more employees. The government comes through again, but of course the disparity already exists and will alway exist with government aid.
Now, the guy with the hoe could have looked at his hoe and recognized he was going to stay behind if he didn’t work twice as hard and smarter. He could of looked around his community and said that there was a big market for smaller holes for people that can’t afford the cost of big holes. He could work steadily, building up a strong reputation and customer base. In time he can fianlly afford to buy that shovel. He can dig the big holes now. After a while, the big outfits that started out with the shovel take notice and say we have got to hire this guy. He works hard and smart and one day has the capital and custormer base to go out on his own as a big player himself.
The first scenereo has huge implications for the individual and the greater society. Dependency and feelings of victimhood for the individual. Resentment, division, and burdens on the taxpayers are serious consequences for society.
The second scenereo leads to unity, pride, and selfsufficiency. I don’t think any of us regardless of race, age, sex, income, etc. will ever have the same tools or get the same results. However, the way we choose to make our journey and complete our tasks are the hallmarks of character.
Comment by Independent — 07.26.05 @ 1:13 pm
Great post La Shawn.
Sentences like this that he wrote, “No amount of state or federal assistance can teach us the intangibles of trust, love and respect, for one another,” apply to all people.
For as much of the vitriol that is slung at others (conservatives), no amount of Republican increases in federal dollars will ever teach liberals/Democrats the intangibles of trust, love and respect, for one another.
I’ve said that both Democrats and Republicans (conservatives and liberals) WANT to solve problems. Their hearts are generally in the right place. Conservatives are different than liberals in the solution type though. While we are more interested in the “teaching how to fish rather than giving the fish”, liberals talk about how mean-spirited that is instead of stopping to think about how conservatives ARE really trying to address the problem with a REAL solution.
I’m not interested (and get incensed) in all of the personal accusations. DS does it about Ward Connerly. Others made inaccurate accusations about Armstrong Williams. Most liberals bash Bush.
I’m interested in the ideas and policy recommendations on the issues. La Shawn’s post addresses ideas. I like her ideas and thoughts. I wish everybody did.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 1:20 pm
RedBeard #1, (Had to say #1
),
That’s what I’m talking about. Working here deep in the bowels of the state of California, I run into this mindset too often. When Condaleeza Rice was nominated for Secretary of State, when the topic of social security reform comes up, when the topic of corporations comes up, when the topic of the environment comes up, or tax cuts or stem cell research or anything it is an overwhelming negativity (far greater than the Democrat leadership on C-SPAN) towards Bush and the evil Republicans.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 1:24 pm
It is not just their methodology, but let the truth be told. Democrats are not interested in solving problems. They are interested in exacerbating them or creating new ones in order to be there to “help” out.
The only way for someone to be needed is to hope for or create more problems. You think The Democrats, Jesse Jackson, Tavis Smiley, the Congressional Black Caucus and others want to see a self sufficient, economically Black people? Get real.
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 1:27 pm
LaShawn,
Being deaf or blind are bad handicaps, and anyone overcoming one or both is to be applauded. If your parents or grandparents worked extremely hard so that you would have life better, be thankful to them (as I am). But this is not governmental but rather family. The person “Renee” that tries to reason with 17-year-old nephew has “stars in her crown”. Young males can be more hard-headed and stupid then any group.
Most of the high school dropouts are male. I am over sixty and it seems to be getting worst. I know of a friend’s younger (14 years) whose Daddy and brother did everything to keep him in school including things the government would not like today. At forty plus he makes a million or more each year in the computer field and wishes he had more then a BS in computer science. Most of the high school dropouts are males. Males are more hardheaded than females on average and commit more
violent crimes. In Cobb’s blog black conservatives including you, LaShawn, are criticized. A series on PBS by certain Harvard prof with degree from Yale points out the being black today means education, power, and still
some are poor and in projects. The guy is Henry Louis Gates, Jr. He got an education by his father
working two jobs. LaShawn, I fixed red-eye in your pic and emailed to you.
James M. Barber
are criticized by some writers.
Comment by James M. Barber — 07.26.05 @ 1:28 pm
Dell #3 wrote, “If you acknowledge that racism has a cost, which you do and have done, and you acknowledge that it must be risen above, then logically you have to also acknowledge that racism causes disparity in some form or fashion.”
Is racism one way Dell? How does the government quantify the amount of racism (preferential treatment/discrimination) towards each race and then apply remedies? When I was in the Navy from 1988-1994 there were a bunch of awards handed out for various things. Because the Navy was making a concious effort as most entities were towards affirmative action a much higher percentage of the awards during ceremonies were given to African Americans. That is racism against the other races. One can argue that we needed to go through that period to get enough Cheifs and Officers in the Navy who were African American. My question though is when does it stop. At some point Ward Connerly and La Shawn’s ideas need to be started with.
My two children should be where it starts. There should be no instance when my two children ever have to be given preferential treatment to or against based on their race of half Asian and half Caucasian. Period.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 1:31 pm
I got the e-mail, James, but there was no pic attached.
The people who complain about me on other blogs (in posts where I’m not even the subject!) are ineffectual and digruntled black liberal men I’ve kicked off this blog. The poor things have nowhere else to go to whine about me, and whine about me of all people is something they seem compelled to do. Am I that much of a threat to the mean-old-white-folks-are-to-blame-for-our-ills illusion they’ve propped up? Apparently.
Comment by La Shawn — 07.26.05 @ 1:33 pm
Dell #8 asked, “Can you prove to me that statistically whites in aggregate are affected by the mythological ‘reverse racism’”
You probably have read Ward Connerly’s book Creating Equal. If not, the answer to your question lies in his book and other books like his. The proves to you statistically and anecdotally. Both. Convincingly. End of argument.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 1:34 pm
I knew by commenting that I’d be digging myself into a hole.
Comment by Shipwrecked — 07.26.05 @ 1:37 pm
Dell #13 wrote, “But throughout the bible the ability to remove the poor from the circumstance of being poor is acknowledged as ‘righteous’ behavior.”
Dell, the bible doesn’t advocate socialism nor communism. (Government choosing who gets what resources). Short of the government getting involved and removing wealth to “remove the poor” as you put it that would be capitalism (defined as the people choosing who gets what resources).
Obviously in this country there is a hybrid approach. The government has been choosing who gets what resources in a big way. For over 40 years we’ve been in a War on Poverty with an ever increasing set of entitlements. I don’t know from your posts what “removing the poor” is when it comes to reality. Nor do I know what solution you are advocating for. Nor does it negate Andy’s statement that we are dealth with what we have and we should work with that. Bill Gates and the Walton’s have more. They have the bulldozer. I have the hand trowel. That is life. In many situations I’ve seen preferential treatment. The point is that it should END. Every race has poor. Every city, every county, every state. Every race. You can’t “remove the poor”.
THE best solution is to teach the able bodied how to fish and not give them the fish. It is more righteous (for the able-bodied) to earn their way in life and not be expectant or dependant on others to just give. That is OUR opinion.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 1:42 pm
Dell #19 wrote, “Or is it the fact that I disagree with you that offends you?”
Using your Christian beliefs to tell others how unChristianlike they are for advocating for teaching people how to fish rather than giving them fish or in your words “removing the poor” as if we weren’t interested (as if you knew what we were interested in) is the key to the puzzle.
It comes off as an attack on our principles, core beliefs, religion, values and our MOTIVES.
We are well meaning and shouldn’t have to defend ourselves as such.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 1:46 pm
Dell wrote, “But you know, if Andy has spent a significant amount of time working with poor black people spiritually, educationally, and economically, and having the positive results I have had…”
There you go. You are the anti-dote to racism. You give the boost to people that I’ve never received.
I’ve worked since 16. Paid for my own cars. Paid for my own insurance on my own policy. Paid taxes along the way. Got out of the fast food work with the military. Worked on computer stuff for 18 years. Paid taxes along the way. Have had a family. Paid taxes along the way. Studies. Done well in my studies. Saved money. Spent as wisely as I can. Paid more taxes. Didn’t receive benefits. Didn’t receive Dell Gine’s help economically, educationally or spiritually (well on some level :))
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 1:51 pm
Kathy #28 wrote, “We need to be equally appalled. And we need to put extensive efforts to eradicate it. Not accept racism.”
1) We are all equally apalled. Nobody wants it to exist. Liberals do this all the time (think they know what is in a conservatives mind due to the difference in solutions)
2) We all want it eradicated. That would be treating people equally. That would be no preferential treatment or discrimination based on race. That would be Proposition 209 which is the law of the land here in California (California Civil Rights Initiative written by Ward Connerly - author of “Creating Equal”
3) Who is wanting to accept racism? Nobody wants to accept it. People want to propose it with preferential treatment. Racism all around is a reality. That doesn’t speak for whether or not anyone wants to accept is just because they say it’s there and don’t want preferential treatment.
Kathy. Conservatives and liberals differ on the solutions. Not on the motives to have no racism. We all (generally) want everyone not to be poor, to not be discriminated against, to not have racism exist. How do you get there? Conservatives have solutions and liberals have solutions. Dell and yourself find it easy to think that you know what conservatives have in their minds. Unfortunately that doesn’t further the debate.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 2:02 pm
I wasn’t sure if I wanted to get into this but here goes.
For the most part, I agree with Dell. The conditions of the black community is primarily due to systematic racism. Having said that; what is the primary factor that keep many black people in that same condition? There are a host of reason and racism as well as personal responsibility are certainly valid reasons.
The problem with debating like this is that it is very abstract and academic. But to experience racism in the flesh makes it something very different. I’ve come face to face with racism and it almost cost me my life. I remember when my brother came face to face with it and he almost ended up under a moving car. I’m afraid my grandchildren will be talking about this so the best that a person can do is live life and do what many here have suggested: rise above it.
I’m not going to spend any energy trying to change someone’s heart. For those who believe racism has no impact on our lives, then so be it. For those who believe they can’t do anything because of racism, then they are of the mindset that they can’t overcome any adversities. Me? I’m going to live my life and hope my kids never have to jump the same hurdles and dodge the same bullets I did. Racism or no racism, I still have bill to pay and children to raise.
Comment by James Manning — 07.26.05 @ 2:10 pm
Oh, so white people don’t experience Racism, James? Funny, I disagree. Affirmative Action is racism against whites…Males mostly.
Also, being called Honky and cracker by a group of black youths is what? Just a friendly “Hey there!”?
Aside from that, the ‘gotta get me some’ mentality even exists in whites…I have a ‘friend’ who complained bitterly that he had to pay unemployment benefits (taxes) so some lazy bum could sit on his #&@ at home for a few months…He gets laid off…and what’s he do? “Well, I paid into it! I should get it back out! So I’m going to sit on my butt for a few months before looking for a job”…
Phaw…Lazy people..
Dan
Comment by Dan — 07.26.05 @ 2:17 pm
James–I lived in Japan for three years, and it took me five years to get over it. My experience was like the “Invisible Man” and the “Sambo” character from the early movies, in addition to the other stuff that goes along with living abroad and learning a language. It screwed me up and made me bitter, and other weird experiences followed when I traveled and when I came back to the US. So I agree that there’s racism and it’s hurtful.
Comment by mj — 07.26.05 @ 2:25 pm
Dan:
I didn’t say racism against whites didn’t exist. I said the condition of the black community is primarily due to systematic racism. That’s it.
Dan Said:
Also, being called Honky and cracker by a group of black youths is what? Just a friendly “Hey there!�
I Say:
Yes, those are racist comments and I can’t even count the number of times some young white kids drove by in a car yelling nigger at me.
But none of this was the premise of my post.
Comment by James Manning — 07.26.05 @ 2:27 pm
Racism in Japan is quite overt, but let not your heart be troubled. The Japanese have a history of hating everyone who is not Japanese.
The only thing they respect is artfully applied nuclear fission.
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 2:28 pm
As a white person I experience racism everyday. When discussing the impropriety of giving a “star student” award to a black child that had been in constant trouble and had a shadow person following him around all day because he was violent; the black receptionist of our school stood up and made the statement that “there are a lot of mean, hateful white people.” Nobody, including the principal, challenged this statement. It was a debate stopper. She won her way by throwing out the race card. The spectar of white racism ends most debate in public sectors before it can even start. The opinions of whites are systematically shut down lest we be viewed as racist. We continually censor ourselves and keep our mouths shut about blatantly poor decisions and double standards because that is the atmosphere we live in everyday. I have seen black employees and students get a free pass for the same infractions that create major reprecusions for whites. I also know alot of white people that DO make up their mind about a person’s character based on the color of their skin. I do hear racist slurs used when talking about black people. These things are real. But racism is far from a one way street. This is unhealthy for everybody. We need to be colorblind NOT color hypersensitive.
Comment by Independent — 07.26.05 @ 2:40 pm
James still has not described or defined this so-called “system” thing. Educate us…..if you can.
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 2:42 pm
For James Manning only: Systematic racism? What the heck is systematic racism? Please define it and give me an example. And please, please don’t tell me an anecdote about sales people following around blacks in stores or the way some white person looked at you the other day.
We’ve gone around and around on this before. I asked you to define and give examples of racism: http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/06/15/youre/#comment-49019
And I responded: http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/06/15/youre/#comment-49035
Must we go through it again?
Comment by La Shawn — 07.26.05 @ 2:43 pm
I think we also need to be careful just throwing around the term “racist.” That term by definition implies a belief in your race’s own superiority over others.
Honestly speaking, I have ill feelings towards people of many races and cultures. it would be dishonest to say otherwise. If you were to overhear some of the things I say about my own people sometimes, you’d swear I was a grand dragon of the KKK.
ALL people discriminate and criticize that which they don’t understand or things that don’t conform to their own culture. It is when you inteject pure hate and then act on it that we have a problem.
Me racist? I don’t think so. Me insensitive and discriminating? You betcha.
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 2:47 pm
I use the word systematic and institutionalized racism interchangeably. So when I say that I am talking about slavery, jim crow and a host of other things that took place.
Comment by James Manning — 07.26.05 @ 2:56 pm
James #51 wrote, “For those who believe racism has no impact on our lives, then so be it.
I don’t know anyone who is saying this James. Where we differ is the solutions not the recognition of this specific problem existing or having an impact.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 3:03 pm
Suit yourself, James. That’s a non-responsive answer, but I won’t push it. I just hope and pray you’re not teaching your children that moral problems in the black community, theirs or anyone else’s, are caused by white people.
Comment by La Shawn — 07.26.05 @ 3:04 pm
Raymond #41 wrote, “Democrats are not interested in solving problems.are interested in solving problems. They differ no the solutions however. And… They have been brainwashed for decades to believe that Republicans aren’t interested in solving problems. That is the mentality that you are displaying in reverse (knowing what someone’s motives and intentions are). You’ve seen me write about that previously.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 3:09 pm
My post got hammered.
I said that I’ll give it to you on the Democrat leadership maybe.
But every one of the Democrat rank and files that I talk to everyday have a motive and intent and my interpretation is that they are interested in solving problems. They have just been brainwashed for decades to believe that Republicans aren’t interested..
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 3:11 pm
And they differ on the solutions.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 3:11 pm
“systematic and institutionalized racism” - Words of James’
It was the law of the land in California before the CA Civil Rights Initiative (Prop 209). That was institutionalized racism. Now it’s ended.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 3:13 pm
La Shawn, I don’t. In fact those are not topics that come up at all. I have a three year old so the only thing we talk about is Clifford, Candyland, Barbie and a host of Disney movies. In fact, her grandmother is white (my girlfriend is mixed black/white) so our family dinners on race are interesting to say the least with at four ethnic groups represented at any given time.
But I will teach my kids what they need to know to make it in this world.
Comment by James Manning — 07.26.05 @ 3:13 pm
James, what’s that? Blame “whitie?”
Comment by Raymond — 07.26.05 @ 3:17 pm
good show, Lashawn.
Comment by stephen johnson — 07.26.05 @ 3:55 pm
Thanks, Stephen.
Time flew…
Comment by La Shawn — 07.26.05 @ 3:56 pm
I agree with you %100 on this.
Comment by Chuck — 07.26.05 @ 4:25 pm
Andy, (off topic, sorry La Sahawn)
I would really like to discuss ministering to the deaf with you as you know my son is deaf (I didn’t know this but I guessed from some of your previous comments about the deaf that you had experience in the area).
Comment by Renee — 07.26.05 @ 4:34 pm
Dell, quick question, please clarify from #32
“4. The response of the people to this missionary who recognized they were disenfranchised by their culture and by the church. Hopefully the story has a positive ending.
This proves what I am saying, the duality between social responsibility and individual responsibility. ”
Methinks you mistake Christian responsisbility for social responsiblity. No wheredoes the Bible discuss social responsibilities, rather the responsibilities of the faithful to society around them.
That’s a BIG Difference in the resulting world view.
Comment by Andy — 07.26.05 @ 4:39 pm
Funny thing is, my parents’ “rise above racism” didn’t transfer to me, and my “rise above racism” is not going to keep my children from having to “rise” again.
I attribute it to each successive generation not really picking up the lessons of its predecessors. 40 years ago, white males used to control 99% of the highest paying jobs in the economy, and now that they only control 80%, they are victims of “reverse racism,” and suddenly want a little group politics to work in their favor. How ironic.
Comment by brotherbrown — 07.26.05 @ 5:21 pm
Merriam-Webster (on-line) defines racism/racist as follows;
A belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
For all you Blacks out there that think you are the “superior” race in America you are RACISTS!!
For those Whites (I am a Black man)on this thread, I would like to personally apologize for the suffering you might have endured caused by those Blacks that believe they are superior to you. As a Black man I am dismayed that people of my race think that they are superior to anyone in this country. Why, thats almost like a “reverse Bell Curve.” Hey Black people, wheres your heavily funded study showing your racist hypothesis, huh…? Wheres Jesse Jackson and the NAACP? They don’t even have a study. Richard Mellon Scaife and the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation funded the Bell Curve. The NAACP has enough money to fund a study, or maybe Oprah, but nooooooo, you think you’re “superior” in this country. La Shawn lets work together to try and quell this tide of Black superiority beliefs in America. Black people should not be “racist” in such a forgiving and equality based society such as our’s. We’ve got everything a race of ex-slaves could want (ask, beg, whine, mooch, sponge and sue) for. We have our own neighborhoods, for the most part our own schools and churchs, our own caucus in congress, heck we even have our own cemeteries. All of these were gifts by who? The White government. Don’t look a gifted horse in the mouth. Let’s get it together Black people!
Sarcastically yours…
Comment by Hipstreet — 07.26.05 @ 5:48 pm
Hipstreet, your personal apology is accepted.
Comment by Kevin — 07.26.05 @ 6:27 pm
Hey, Hipstreet, we are on the same page. I am not black but neither am I anglo-saxon white, my ancestory being Czech. Anyway none of this really matters because to me there is no black,white or other shade,there is only persons, all brothers and sisters in Christ.
La Shawn, you wrote that you read an article written by a black conservative who debunked the usual black rascist woe crap. Believe me there are many conservative blacks that believe the same. Bill Cosby certainly is one as are these black conservative writers: Larry Elder, Mychal Massie, Star Parker, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell. You might want to check them out.
Comment by djb — 07.26.05 @ 6:29 pm
Too much secular purview on this comment section. Andy has it right, in that we need a reality check to what our real mission is:
Take the tools the Lord has blessed us with, and use them to glorify Him.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say to fret over racism. In fact, God commands us to glorify him in spite of what negative circumstances “whitey” or any other person who commits discrimination throws our way.
For those of you with the secular viewpoint, the continued blame of others does nothing to lift you up. Irregardless of how bad life may leave you, it is still your responsibility to make the best of your circumstance. You still have choices.
Comment by Chris Roberts — 07.26.05 @ 6:36 pm
Thanks for commenting, DJB, but I said some black conservatives think that way, not all. I have heard of the people you mention, of course. I’ve been blogging and writing for a combined three years and living for 38.
See the following links:
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2004/07/19/brconservative-university-2004lunch-with-star/
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/11/how-2/
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2004/08/05/conservatives-liberals-blacks/
and the entire “BC Wisdom” category: http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/category/bc-wisdom/
Comment by La Shawn — 07.26.05 @ 6:40 pm
Independent: I know what you’re talking about. Similar stuff, different place.
Comment by mj — 07.26.05 @ 7:01 pm
If X% of a group is achieving, can that X% be said to be embracing “victimology”?
Suppose that X% is approximately 2/3 of the group?
Now, if that group is said to be Black, what does that mean?
If you claim most Blacks are falling under “victimology” but that most Blacks are achieving, then it’s nonsense to say that people who embrace “victimology” aren’t achieving.
Jewish people practice “collectivism” but nothing negative is said about them. D’Souza castigated Blacks for “collectivism” thinking and then turned around and stated Blacks should act in a “collectivist” manner like some immigrants and Jewish people.
Most Blacks who face racism deal with it. We may complain but we deal with it and move on.
[ Generality alert. No direct comment to the blog hostess intended ]
Public conservatives make a bigger deal of “Black leadership” than do the Black community in general. This is because “Black leadership” is a low hanging fruit to attack. It does nothing to help engage those who are truly willing to engage in conversation or exchange of ideas. In fact, I think that is the purpose. It really is not for the consumption of Black individuals. Otherwise public conservatives, who claim that conservatives have a positive message, would do more to highlight Blacks and Black groups who are following a different path than “Black leadership” who, BTW, is defined by the media for the most part.
Comment by DarkStar — 07.26.05 @ 7:19 pm
Your last paragraph makes no sense.
I didn’t here about Jesse Lee Peterson from non-conservatives. I never hear about Ward Connerly (except to deride him) from non-conservatives. What is your beef? It was conservatives who DID follow your last sentence. It was conservatives who did highlight Project 21.
I’ve been telling you and you’ve been acting all I told you so instead of learning from what I had to say that your beef is with the mass media. You seem to not even know what the conservative message is. You are all mixed up and swinging this way and that and hitting nothing.
I’ve asked you why don’t you stick to the issues instead of characterizing people. Why don’t you address why we can or can’t this day start with our children and have NO racial preferential treatment or discrimination policies by the government.
I know I shouldn’t have written this because the response will be about someone’s character (something you don’t like - misrepresenting what their intentions/motives/beliefs are).
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 7:30 pm
I don’t think I’ve ever heard the mainstream media talk about Star Parker. It was conservatives.
Good Lord. I don’t understand your last paragraph.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 7:31 pm
This is a good piece in Booker Rising.
http://bookerrising.blogspot.com/2005/07/cosby-republicans-key-to-reviving.html
Booker Rising and Cobb do an excellent job of trying to deaggregate the Black community. IMO, that’s something that public conservatives, in general, don’t want to do unless it’s to “uplift” someone they like.
Comment by DarkStar — 07.26.05 @ 7:47 pm
http://www.blackselfhelp.info.
Black people doing positive things to affect positive change for Black people.
Why don’t public conservatives hightlight such groups listed at that website?
Comment by DarkStar — 07.26.05 @ 7:49 pm
Last week, my seventeen year old daughter was bumped up to first class on a flight. A black man was sitting next to her, reading a magazine, filled with vitriolic filth toward white people, such as; “all evil is found in the flesh of the white man.” His four friends, all in first class were reading hideous papers and magazines as well. She was terrified to ask him to get up so she could go to the bathroom. That same day, while walking my dog, I met a man from Nigeria. I live in a poor neighborhood, where there seems to be a great deal of hostility, which has stunned and devastated me. Daniel, the Nigerian man, owns a taxi business. He said that black people from the neighborhood refuse to pay him, call him a F___ing N____, and then tell him to go back to Africa. Shocked, I asked him why, and he said that they are enraged by his success, because he is proof that a black man can get ahead by working hard. He said that they are incredibly racist toward the Indian and Vietnamese people in the neighborhood as well. My Vietnamese hair dresser said that many of her Vietnamese friends have suffered a great deal of abuse at the hands of angry black people, and many are actually fearful. When I first moved to my home, I saw a group of black kids going to school one day. I looked up, smiled, and said “Hey, guys! How’s it going?” They replied, “F__you, white B___!” Famous black people say horrendous things all the time, that a white person would never be allowed to get away with saying. Miles Davis was quoted in Jet magazine stating that if he had only one hour left to live, he would spend it choking a white man to death. Eldridge Cleaver said how exquisite it was sticking it to the white man by raping his women. My beautiful eldest daughter was brutally raped by an illegal alien spewing racial epithets. After she got out of the hospital, she was practically destroyed. What is so amazing is that my Grandmother married a black man after my grandfather died, decades ago, and I love him dearly. My eldest is married to an immigrant from Columbia, another is engaged to an immigrant from Cuba, and my granddaughter’s father is from Ecuador. Three of my five children were actually born in the Middle East, and all of them have always had best friends from every country under the sun.None of us ever even thought very much about race one way or another. Yet, since we returned here, to live in a poor neighborhood, we have been subjected to vindictive racist behavior on a daily basis. It’s quite amazing really. Recently, there was a forum in which black students in Austin spoke out in great anger about how they did not feel nurtured by the city. None of my kids had a clue how a city was supposed to nurture them, and all they remember was working non-stop. Two of the angry individuals were married, and going to an institution that costs well over thirty-thousand a year each for tuition. Neither one worked. The other student who spoke was a law student who said she had turned down UT as she felt it was too racist. Now, my second daughter, while going to UT worked two jobs, seventy hours a week, and went to school full time. She said that she was so exhausted that she would not have recognized nurturance if it had knocked her upside the head. In fact, no teacher spoke to her the entire time, and she was very lonely after coming here from the Middle East. Yet, the black students have special facilities, mentors, and a free ride. I just don’t get it. In the meantime, two Jewish students were hospitalized after being attacked on campus in separate incidents, for being Jewish. Further, it is totally acceptable on all colllege campuses to bash whites, especially white males and to only speak of the slavery as an evil white phenomenon, while ignoring the fact that one third of all the freed blacks in New Orleans had slaves, and that slavery is endemic to cultures all over the world, and througout history. Meanwhile, in the Smithsonian, there is an exhibit that says that slavery is only dehumanizing when it involves white men enslaving black people. Yet, I lived in Saudi Arabia where slavery was very common and two Indonesian maids were slaughtered on my block by their Arab’masters’.All slavery is dehumanizing, which is why I was a civil rights activist in the sixties. Incidentally,what many people do not realize is that there are 2.7 times more poor white people in the United States than there are black people, yet we only hear about black poverty. If a white person is poor, it is all their fault…If a black person is poor, it is all someone else’s fault….By the way, college educated, married blacks make the same salary as whites, and college educated black women make more than college educated white women or men. And, just for esoteric interest, Asians, Indians, and Arabs, all make significantly more than whites, and I hardly think it is because of racism. I know I’ve gone on too long, but I think it is so critical to look truth in the face. Racism does exist, and I’d be a fool to deny it. At the same time, there is a staggering amount of racism towards whites which is having an enormous impact. The constant reinforcement of racism charges by liberals and so many black leaders, I think is creating enormous hatred in our country. For God’s sake, for ours, and our country’s, we have to come together on common ground. We have to take a stand against the hatred! I hope I don’t get kicked off the blog for this entry, but I have to take a stand. What is happening in my neighborhood, and all over the country, is hurting everyone except for those who make a living pimping off of the poverty, pain,and victimology of others.
Comment by jan brauner — 07.26.05 @ 7:59 pm
Cobb and Booker Rising do what they do, and I do what I do. Different blogs, different focus. They’re moderate Republicans; I’m a Christian and independent conservative.
I don’t get to your self-help site often, but I’ll try to make an effort.
Comment by La Shawn — 07.26.05 @ 8:06 pm
jan,
Until I was born again, I didn’t understand it either (and I’m Black)…
Now…
I think Andy said it best earlier…
it’s SIN, plain and simple. However to unregenrate man it has to have a name and someone has to be the blame (even when we aren’t doing what we are supposed to be doing)…
I call it the Rodney King reflex (”so what I was driving like lunatic while high, they still had no reason to beat me….true but why were you high and driving like a lunitic in the first place”).
Outside of the Word, you’ll go nuts trying to understand the lunacy of it all.
Comment by Renee — 07.26.05 @ 8:18 pm
Random question…
Is there a difference between “Gospel Music” and “Christian Music”?
There is to the radio world.
Why?
Comment by DarkStar — 07.26.05 @ 8:27 pm
#86 jan brauner
I can not let your statements go unaddressed. Never have I risen to the “bait” or picked a “fight” in my postings, and I will not do so now.
What you have said from your vast experience is right on target. The society is full of whites who deny they have prejudices and blacks who make the same claim. Fine, let them believe their fairy tale world.
If you look at the military today, you see a scrapbook of faces and backgrounds that is as broad as it can be. These individuals know that they are only as strong as the mates around them. They defend, rescue, rely upon humans of all ethnic, religious and geographic descriptions. They have no time for racism if for no other reason than it can be very costly in time of crisis.
Those of us who have learned to deal heart to heart have long since gotten over our superficial differences.
This particular topic has brought out some amazing myopia. I am sure that you could read down the list and find more than one poster parading as a victim or great profit who is wearing a dark cloak of intolerance.
It is easy to tell from your post that your children have been raised with a strong belief system and a pretty good nose for those who are feeding from an unhealthy trough.
Comment by Heliotrope — 07.26.05 @ 8:35 pm
Renee;
Once again, you’re right!
Comment by jan brauner — 07.26.05 @ 8:37 pm
The site you led me to asked a bunch of irrelevant questions (imo). It was race dominated.
Why do I say that? Because the author (like you) seem to not know what conservativism is. You both come at it as if it’s extreme (and needs to be moderated). I’ve stated for years that conservativism is centrism. It’s realism. It’s common sensism. It’s doing the right thing. It’s well intentioned. There is a lot of talk by the site you led me to about moderates and moderate conservatives and what not. And that’s fine. But where the rubber meets the road what does that mean?
Does it mean SOME preferential treatment Darkstar? Is that what you are for? It exists now. Conservatives (in general) are for no preferential treatment/discrimination based on race, gender, etc.
What does it mean with any other issue? Conservatives are the ones in between libertarians who want 80% cut in government to liberals who want dramatic growth in government. Conservatives range from wanting moderate decrease in government to no increase in government. Where do you stand? If you are to the left of that then you might very well stand in the Republican party but you might very well be a full fledged liberal.
Questions:
1) Would you want a) any federal money spent on stem cells b) federal money spent on stem cells as Bush proposed c) more federal money spent on stem cells than Bush proposed d) other-explain
2) Would you want a) A Prop 209 like initiative or law passed in every state b) some Prop 209 pieces passed but exclusions for either Universities or Contracting c) status quo with respect to “affirmative action” d) other-explain
3) Would you want tax rates a) raised generally b) raised on rich people c) kept the same as now d) other-explain
4) Would you vote for a school voucher program that gives a) a $4,000 voucher to a parent to the school of their choice b) $2,000 to a parent to the school of their choice c) $2,000 to a school (not parent) that the parent picks from a pre-approved list of schools d) no vouchers e) other-explain.
Comment by Baklava — 07.26.05 @ 8:52 pm
Heliotrope;
Thanks! Your words mean a lot.
Comment by jan brauner — 07.26.05 @ 9:22 pm
jan, Like you, I am absolutely stunned by the anger and divisions in our country. However, never forget that there are more good and decent people in the world than there are evil and misguided people. It’s just the bad that gets the press and that stands out in our minds. If you ever get the chance, make a list that says kindness and ugliness. Mark a tally for each time an incident falls on the list. At the end of the day, you will find that good is kicking evil’s butt. It may sound a little simplistic and naive, but it’s my way of rising above. Bitterness can turn us into that which we most mistrust and despise.
Comment by Independent — 07.26.05 @ 9:51 pm
Independent;
I pray every day that good will kick evil’s butt….I guess I won’t know till I check it out. Great advice!
Comment by jan brauner — 07.26.05 @ 10:26 pm
Raymond: Yeah, I know quite well that the Japanese are into their own group. It actually taught me how to appreciate the country you’re from–there’s nothing wrong with being patriotic.
Comment by mj — 07.26.05 @ 11:03 pm
Baklava: I’d like to take a crack at your quiz…
1) d. other: I am wholly opposed to profiting from the bodies of slain innocents.
2) a. Proposition 209 or such-like statute in every state
3) d. other: I would like to see the sixteenth amendment, permitting direct taxation, repealed.
4) d. other: I would like the government wholly out of education.
Comment by Mark Slater — 07.26.05 @ 11:10 pm
I’m an African American who believes in what the potential of America can be: in other words…we still have a long ways to go. This nation talks about Jesus, but by and large attends segregated church services on Sunday, which coincides with the largely segregated societies that ring our major cities. Conservatives talk about eliminating racial preferences by the government, while not addressing the racial preferences that work against minorities when it comes to hiring, promotion, housing, lending and law enforcement. In other words, it’s lip-service, with a wink and nod to the status quo.
Dell Gines is absolutely on point with his ditch-digging analogy. The first step in this dialogue must be the acknowlegement of the FACTS about Race in America.
Jan, I appreciate your post as well. You have experiences that have shaped your opinions and I respect them. In fact, it’s the sharing of those experiences that allows me to get a deeper understanding of your mindset. What I can ask you to do, is to listen with equal attention to the experiences of others, and trust me, the result upon you will be similar.
Yes, LaShawn, you can “rise above racism.” You can rise above many obstacles in life, but that doesn’t excuse the “obstacle-maker.”
http://www.thecobraslair.com/images/ENDANGERED-SPECIES-STREAM.gif
–Cobra
–Cobra
Comment by Cobra — 07.26.05 @ 11:32 pm
Lets’ get serious if I may. My previous post re: “Black racism” was a sarcastic piece. Again, Webster defines racism/racist as;
A belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
The key word here is “SUPERIORITY.” Ask the average (or for that matter any) Black person in this country if they believe that Black people are the superior race in this country. I have yet to hear any so-called Black leader espouse the superiority of Black people in America. Yet, some wish to refer to Blacks as racists. By the definition of racism itself, one would have to believe the his/her race is SUPERIOR! I am not a follower of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the NAACP or Louis Farrakan. Yet, I have never heard any of these individuals or organizations adopting a BLACK SUPERIORITY concept.
Although their was one group that did espouse the idea that Blacks were “better” than whites, The Black Panthers, remember them? I seem to remember reading released official CIA documents that have shown the group was targeted by the powers that be during the organizations hey-day. Futhermore, most of the prominent leaders in the Panther organization were convicted and jailed on various charges.
Racism dosen’t exist in a vacuum. It’s overt qualities are known to us all. It’s the covert qualities that keeps it alive in America. Kevin’s responce to my earlier post read “your apology is accepted.” This person (whom I assume is White) was obviously agreeing with my sarcastic diatribe. Let me inform you of something that without much doubt you should be aware of. The Whites did’nt GIVE Blacks their schools, churchs, and nieghborhoods. The Whites (at least in most urban area’s such as Detroit where I live) LEFT these things behind when they fled the city. Now the prominent and successful Blacks are fleeing to the suburbs. Okay, it is true that Blacks have screwed up and are still screwing up socially and politically. But does that make Blacks “racist.” By no meaning of the word can Blacks be called racist. Are Blacks elevated to superiority when they purchase a home in a White nieghborhood and the Whites begin to move out? Or when Whites refuse to move in because the nieghborhood is “too Black.” (It’s possible a few will, but not a majority). In middle-class America this still exists to this day as census statistics show.
Honestly, can you show me a bastion or conclave in American society that has had a LONG term history of total intergration. My family moved into a predominately white nieghborhood in Detroit in the late 60s’when I was 10 years old. I had several White friends. By the time I turned 15, all those friends and their families had moved away. At age 12 I remember asking one of my White friends why were they moving. He told me his father said it was time for them to leave because the nieghborhood was changing. At the time I did’nt know what he meant. Now I know.
Come to Detroit and ask any sane Black person of average intelligence, be it the Mayor, City Council, School Principal, Police Chief or the man on the street; “As a Black person in America, do you think that you are superior to White people?” Ask him/her under the cloak of anonymity (by using a Black person as the interviewer) or a non-personal survey. Belive me, the initial response will be, “are you crazy?” or something along those lines.
I think we have to come up with a word or term that would fit a Black person that believes that he is superior to Whites in this country. How about “IDIOT.”
I am not a RACIST. I am a REALIST. Personally, I could give less than a damn if you’re White, Brown, Yellow or Red. If you treat me with respect, i’ll respond in kind.
Oh yeah, did I forget to mention my wife is White.
I get along well with my mother-in-law and sister-in-law, unfortunatley her father, brothers and most of her other family members totally reject me and our children. Go figue!
Comment by Hipstreet — 07.27.05 @ 12:27 am
“You can rise above many obstacles in life, but that doesn’t excuse the “obstacle-maker.—
LB and most of us are not trying to excuse the “obstacle-maker”. That being said, what LB and others point out is that the dialogue is exclusively focused on the “obstacle-maker”, so much so that individuals do not take the initiative or resposnibility for themselves. The issue is with individuals who want the government to take care of their problems for them, rather than doing everything within their power to effect change…no matter what obstacles lie in their way. The fact of the matter is that over 2/3 of the black community does exactly that. Like DarkStar often says, why aren’t we hearing more about their stories? Get out of your vacuum. There is a negative