In my short time as a conservative, I’m always pleased to see another black conservative boldly speaking out against collective self-pity and victimhood. Unfortunately, some hold on to remnants of distorted, blame-whitey thinking. The black subculture and our attachment to it is very strong, and blame-whitey habits die hard.
You will never hear me say that racism per se doesn’t exist. My purpose is to encourage blacks to understand what they’re capable of despite racism. Racism, in whatever form, is not “holding us back.” At this point in history, it is a sad reminder of how it held back many, and its residual effects will live on. Racism and bigotry are not “white” traits, however. They’re human traits. The next time you call a white person a “racist bigot,” stop and examine yourself. Someone somewhere can truthfully say the same about you.
I ran across an article written by a black conservative type (he may not be), and I really liked it. But the author meanders down the “blame whitey” path. Here are a few things that flaw an otherwise good article:
- Use of the term “African American” (See the rant).
- The assumption that racism causes black failure.
- That it is “racist” to lock up black criminals at higher rates than other races, deny them loans because they have bad credit, deny them government contracts because they either bid higher than others or aren’t as qualified, etc.
This sort of thinking leads to “defining deviancy down.” Instead of encouraging law-abiding behavior, developing good financial practices and competitive businesses, the settled and predictable response is to drag down standards for blacks so they are judged separately.
“Racism” becomes a mitigating circumstance for black criminals, banks disregard qualifications and risk money on blacks with bad credit because it’s “racist” to require them to have good credit, and the government, charged with treating citizens equally before the law, create set-asides for black-owned businesses so they can get a “fair share” of the city’s business. At the same time otherwise intelligent people think all this is “fair.”
- The assumption that individualism is “mean-spirited.” I think black people are sometimes afraid to compete and fail, so they hide behind their skin. It’s true that during slavery and legal segregation, a collective mind-set may have been necessary for our survival. But times have changed, and some old things should pass away.
Collective skin color grievances hold people back, not move them forward. Being handed a race-based entitlement (especially from the government) is no different to me than being handed a putrefying steak served on a garbage can lid.
At the same time, I agree with the author’s blacks-helping-blacks idea, but such is not the opposite of individualism, as he implies. In my opinion, individualism doesn’t mean you don’t help others. It means rather than turning to the government for handouts and solutions, you use your own mind, creativity, ingenuity, and God-given talents to help others and yourself.
Having said all that about the article, I still recommend it.
Catch me today on CORE Hour around 3:28 p.m. EDT with Niger Innis, son of Civil Rights veteran Roy Innis. We’ll talk about ebonics and the unnerving suggestion that black kids are too dumb to learn and speak standard English.
The call in number is 1-866-884-TALK (8255).
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La Shawn, once again it appears you are dead center in the bullseye. But since I come at this from a different perspective, I thought I’d throw in a comment.
The whole “collective self-pity and victimhood” thing is a national epidemic, and it afflicts all races and all ethnicities. It may be easier to see, and be more institutionalized, as it applies to the situations you discussed, but it’s everywhere.
I knew an old man who spent all his time whining and/or pounding his fist about how much of a victim he was. Why? Because the eveeeel Republicans were trying to kill him by not going along with the federal welfare program for prescription drugs. In his mind, it was clearly a case of the elderly being the victims of the “fat cats” who have everything and won’t share. Common sense never entered this man’s mind. I got fed up at one point, and bluntly asked him why he felt entitled to dip into my pocket and make me pay for his drugs. His reaction was one of total confusion, as he said that he didn’t want me to pay, but rather the government and the “rich b******s” who are hogging all the goodies for themselves. Good grief. I just walked away.
Another time, fairly recently, I was talking to a couple of young guys who had just lost their jobs due to their company relocating the plant to another town about 50 miles away. Their attitude was one of complete self-pity and victimization. They told me that they were going “on the government” because the nasty rich company bosses deliberately took their jobs away. Sheesh. I asked them two questions. First, I asked if they had considered moving to the other town and staying with the company. The answer was no. I then asked if they had applied at the other manufacturing plants in town. The answer was no. In other words, both of these losers had full time jobs feeling sorry for themselves, blaming others for their situations, and waiting for someone else to fix their lives. Pathetic.
Sometimes I think the whole country needs a good strong kick in the pants.
Good on ya, La Shawn.
Redbeard, would that be a collective kick in the pants?
I am up and down on this issue for a variety of reasons.
But I want to point out one thing of note.
LaShawn, if you acknowledge that racism exist, and that it must be ‘risen’ above, then you acknowledge that racism has an impact. If it has an impact then it has a cost. If it has a cost then it is presumed that all things being equal, one will not pay the cost to ‘overcome racism’.
Basically, to use an analogy, if me and four other guys are equal, and we all have a task to complete, say digging a 4×4 hole and all four are given shovels and I am given a hoe that is a cost to me and my productivity. Does this mean I can not complete the hole? No. But, being that all things are equal, I will always be behind in the completion of digging that hole. Does that give me an excuse to stop trying to dig the hole? No. I should still try to dig the hole if that is what is required of me to do.
Yet, all things being equal, meaning myself and the other four gentlemen with the shovel have all equal talent for digging, I will never match their rate with the shovel as I have a hoe.
If you acknowledge that racism has a cost, which you do and have done, and you acknowledge that it must be risen above, then logically you have to also acknowledge that racism causes disparity in some form or fashion.
We can discuss the failure of the welfare system, and the need to for certain blacks to take more individual responsibility and be more self-determined, and in that I agree 100%. But to simultaneously disregard racism as a variable that creates disparity, and something that needs to be destroyed or correct simultaneously must be address.
Final analogy, in auto racing to improve speed you do two things, increase the power of the vehicle so that it moves faster (IE self determined behavior, and a go getter mentality) and you also can make the vehicle more aerodynamically sound to reduce drag, (not To Wong Fu
but air resistance) and thus enable the engine to produce more speed with the same out put (IE eliminate racism and other barriers). Both must occur for blacks.
Oooo, Andy said a bad word.
Dell Gines
For your analogy to work you should make it more realistic. 4 guys gotta dig a hole, you get a hoe, I get a pick, one guy gets a broken shovel and the other guy gets a bulldozer.
We all suffer racism and adversity. yes white people too, especially white males these days. The point is though that we all gotta work through them, why should 1 guy have the bull dozer provided by the government that Me and the other 2 guys had to pay for? That isnt right.
Dell, you indicated that 4 guys are given shovels and you are given a hoe. This may sound like a minor point, but why do you assume the tools were given and not gotten? That seems like an important distinction.
And if you do find yourself stuck with a hoe, for whatever reason, the right thing to do is to go find a shovel.
Billy first I will ask you a few question:
Can you prove to me that statistically whites in aggregate are affected by the mythological ‘reverse racism’ and secondly in aggregate has it improved blacks positions as a collective?
Also, you are correct, we all face a different set of circumstances, but you also prove my argument to a degree. If you have four sets of individuals with equal ability, and each one is given a more efficient tool for work, then the one with the most efficient tool will produce more work. We agree. The guy with the bulldozer will produce the most all things being equal, the one with the pick will produce the least all things being equal.
Lets take it a step further since we agree in principle. If we are rewarded in relation to our productivity (which we are in a capitalistic society) then the second generation of the individual who had the bull dozer will be in a better position to move forward in a capitalistic society than the person who had the pick as productivity equals capital and capital allows for more productivity.
So if Bulldozer equals 4 points of capital and pick equals 1 point of capital, then bulldozer child inherits 4 points of capital and pick child inherits 1 point of capital. If, all things being equal, each generation in a competitively capitalistic environment was able to double productivity and therefore capital, by the third generation, (4+8+16) vs (1+2+4), the bulldozers grandchild would have a productivity/capital base of 16 versus a productivity/capital base of 4 for the pick grandchild. So what started as a 4 to 1 disparity evolves into a 16 to 4 disparity. So where the bulldozer started at, in the first year, the pick holder doesn’t reach until the fourth.
See racism isn’t simply a moral issue as we are defining it as today, it is an issue with economic implications that and transitional and generational.
Dell, how about simply taking life as it’s handed to you and making the best of it? Jesus certainly never advocated that the sick, lame, blind, deaf needed some sort of cost factoring to bring them back into mainstream society. He simply healed them and moved on.
Racism is a result of sin, plain and simple. Puting a cost factor on it as you do, does nothing to heal that blight. For all you know, maybe God has ordained that a person will be black and poor for all of his life to His glory. Handicapping the race of life would only diminish His will by weakening the so-called victim.
And like Billy pointed out all diggers are not equal, nor should they be. You think you suffer from racism — blame whitey — others are suffering from tribalism and corrupt dictators which often can be deadly. I can assure you that many would be glad to come here and suffer some of that good-ol’ fashioned racism. What you find abhorrent, they would find as a breath of fresh air, simply for the fact that no one, relatively speaking, is trying to kill them or hold them down for it.
Please, I beg of you, get rid of any and all sense of victimism. That is what is holding the people down that you’re trying to help in the first place. Victimization is the cancer that is eating away the can-doism of the poor black.
Racism is a result of sin, plain and simple.
AMEN Andy !!!
Look how muddled amd messed up things become when we don’t call a pig a pig, a spade a spade, a dog a dog and SIN, SIN.
Also, all things being equal, a bulldozer can be a net loss as it would be overkill for digging a fencepost hole. Education is the equalizer because a FOOL and his money are soon parted.
Also your formula doesn’t account for the variables in human spirit and luck as it may be. One can have all the right tools and still struggle financially, another could strike it rich while hardly lifting a finger. This also illustrates another problem with help from above; gubmint bureaucrats think they can just apply a magic one-size fits all formula and expect to erase poverty.
As we well know, they’ve been trying for the last 40 years and it hasn’t help, hasn’t held steady, rather it just continues to get worse. But never would it occur to these bean-head socialists that there is no formula and they shoul just stop trying. The invisible hand will take care of it, if only the elites will let it.
Racism does indeed exist, however as Lashawn pointed out, it is but one of the many obstacles a person has to navigate en route to the American Dream. It is but one.
In order for us to get away from using race as a crutch, we first need to send the “old guard” out to pasture. They fought the good fight as it needed to be fought back then, but the landscape and battlefields are new. They need a new type of warrior. Warriors with more brain than passion, bull horns and the ability to organize a retroactive march.
The first steps in getting ALL black people to achieve is to remove the safety nets. Secondly, we need to shut down the race industry and the players who run it. We need to infiltrate the leadership of once noble organizations like the NAACP. Conservatives need to join these orgs, force the old idiots out and redirect them. We need to bolster the ranks of the more conservative black orgs like CORE.
We need to ignore the Congressional Black Whiners who haven’t ever authored a piece of legislation worth a darn.
In a nut shell, it is time for the young bucks to grow up and TAKE the torch from the old goons who refuse to let it go. If this means kicking an old lunatic like John Conyers down the stairs then so be it.
The only Black leader of relevance should be the one you see in the mirror as you brush your tooth.
Andy, define victim for me, because loaded language quite frankly disgust me and that is what all of these pigeonholed terminologies do. They thwart effective discussion.
Here is the point, no where in the bible does God say the poor should be happy about being poor, although he did acknowledge as a matter of fact that the poor will be with ‘us’ always. But throughout the bible the ability to remove the poor from the circumstance of being poor is acknowledged as ‘righteous’ behavior. So the righteous acknowledge and enable the poor to alleviate the situation. That is bible basics.
Since we are on the bible theme, and that is a particular area of expertise let’s go back to the OT. God acknowledge the duality between personal responsibility and social accountability throughout the whole bible. A cause and effect relationship, some examples are:
The removal of twelve rocks from the river Jordan to the other side as a reminder to the generations of Gods plan so they didn’t ‘forget’ God. Cause and effect. The structure of the levitical law and the prohibitions against foreign religions and the marrying of individual who practiced foreign religions as they influenced the Israelites towards paganism. The verses that indicate the effects of positive righteous leadership versus immoral unrighteous leadership and its effects on the behavior of the people. In fact, all the books of the prophets detail detail the relationship between culture and spiritual practice and behavior. Cause and effect.
The premise of ‘not forsaking the assembly of the brethren’ is rooted in the need for Christians to have support against a world that draws them towards it. As ‘Iron sharpens Iron, so one man sharpens another’. I could go on and on to detail how culture and environment from a biblical perspective effects personal behavior.
My point is that you can not seperate individual behavior from environmental factors that influence (but not necessarily ultimately determine) that behavior. That is why I wrote the article ‘Passive Racism: Over Emphasis on Personal Responsibility’ http://www.dellgines.com/?p=29.
If would like I could provide you a more detail exegesis of scripture on the issue because if we are evangelicals and we believe in the bible is the unerring word of God and that it is what guides our behavior we must be a certain as possible that our ‘poliical’ positions are being influenced by the truth of the bible and not vice-versa. Wouldn’t you agree?
Finally, in relation to this statement:
“Please, I beg of you, get rid of any and all sense of victimism. That is what is holding the people down that you’re trying to help in the first place. Victimization is the cancer that is eating away the can-doism of the poor black.”
Since I have been 16 I have been working with people who I am ‘trying to help’ and have seen results. Shouldn’t I be the one more qualified at examining what is holding us down?
Racism against Blacks is caused mostly by Blacks themselves.
Dell, for you to pretend you don’t know what people mean when they say “victmhood†or “victim mentality†is disingenuous and just as disgusting. The terms you used are just as loaded as you perceive others to be. Your deflecting and know-it-all attitude can be very grating. For some reason you conclude that whatever contribution you’re making to the world is the only “Christian†way.
And this line kills me: Shouldn’t I be the one more qualified at examining what is holding us down? You’ve got to be joking, but unfortunately, you are that full of your own self-worth and “qualifications.” You think living in this fallen world as a black person isn’t enough to “qualify” someone to know what holds others down? That we must have your exact same experience to know what we can see with our own eyes? Good grief. I may be just as arrogant (sinfully) and WRONG, but at least I can see and admit it.
The only arrogance I can stomach on this blog is my own, which I am biased in favor of. Everyone else’s makes me ill.
By the way, “no where in the Bible does God say” the government’s role is to take care of “the poor,” either, and for you as a Christian to assert otherwise to fellow “poor†Christians is…disgusting.
I’ve been in situations in the US and abroad where I’ve been the minority, and what I’ve learned is that even though you may experience prejudice, the best way to survive is to align yourself with allies–anyone who sees you for who you are or appreciates and/or needs your skills. Then a path is created for you, even though it may be a difficult one.
Some of the more well-known entities in America who are the most racist against Blacks:
- NAACP
- Congressional Black Caucus
- Tavis Smiley
- Tom Joyner
- BET
- Jesse Jackson and Rainbow/PUSH
- Al Sharpton
- Louis “Calypso Louie” Farrascum
- The Public Education System
- The Democrat Party
- Other Black collegues in corporate America (don’t worry so much about the white folk you work with, you’d better keep your eye on the Black folk…especially da sistuhs. Wear a ceramic plate on your back!)
There are many others who create conditions and drill home the message where dependency on others becomes a way of life.
mj, that is noble, but I somewhat disagree. I think you have to make your own paths and then people will gravitate towards you. It should not be the other way around.
People recognize honor, pride, Godliness, drive, benevolent ambition and self-sufficiency when they see it and they want to be a a part of it.
When a wall i placed in front of an establishment Black man, he sees only one option. He cries and tries to whine its existence away. When that same wall is placed in front of an American Black Man, we see at least 6 options: Go around it to the left, go around it to the right, go over it, dig under it, blow it the heck out of the way or PRAY that God provides you with 6 more options or takes it away Himself.
LaShawn, do I ever attack you or have I ever attacked you personally? Why do you do it to me? I never called you pompous, or arrogant, I never called you a sellout or uncle Tom. I have present positions that are sometimes counter to yours, but I always do it with what I feel is a rational and well defined argument, and not simply name calling.
Why is it that when I debate my position, I am call a know it all, or talked down to in a condescending fashion, etc? Have I offended you in a way I am missing? Or is it the fact that I disagree with you that offends you? Let me know and I will attempt to ‘modify’ my behavior as I respect the fact, as you have mentioned before, that it is your blog.
Let me know the deal sis, dellgines@excite.com
dellgines
So telling others they aren’t qualified to know what’s wrong with the black community but that you are, based on I-still-can’t-figure-out-what is to “debate” your position, and someone calling you on it is talking down to you?
If you’d offended me, Dell, you wouldn’t be here, so no need to wonder about that. Perhaps I should’ve sent the comment in an e-mail, but what’s done is done. And as you know, I have your e-mail address (as we’ve e-mailed each other before), so the dramatic posting of it was unnecessary.
I’m not qualified?
Going back to the analogy of the shovels & the hoe. A hoe is not a tool designed to dig a hole. If you try and dig a hole with a hoe you must be stupid to even try it. Anyone proud enough to call himself a worker would use the right tool for the job.
What I find interesting in the general discussion, is that many blacks see themselves as victims because they are black, not because they are poor, not because they lack the education or skills essential to move up in life.
The poor credit is the best example. Why on earth would a lender turn away business for no reason? Because they feel that the borrower will default on the loan. If lenders were racist, it would be better to lend at higher rates of interest, than they would lend to whites. (Though in the real world lenders do lend to higher risk borrowers at higher interest rates than to low risk borrowers).
People have got to stop blaming their failures on someone else. Life seldom is fair. Every time you fail, you must try again.
Requiring people to be of the group that is being discussed is provincial.
Just making sure you had it.
In regard to my comment, I was talking specifically to Andy in relation to his statement on what ‘I’ should be doing. But you know, if Andy has spent a significant amount of time working with poor black people spiritually, educationally, and economically, and having the positive results I have had I will defer to his position on it and collaberate on ways to improve mine. Until then, I can only say what I do, and the result I have achieved based upon my Christian beliefs and my inner city activities in that regard. That’s all.
In addition, I believe in the diversity of the body of Christ, and do not believe I have the only way. God provides different gifts for different purposes but as evangelicals we are all subject to the usage of them in light of the scripture. So if you think I am using the scripture wrong I am always open to correction – II Tim 3:16.
At the end of the day, my hope for folks like Andy, and myself, who claim evangelicalism, is that our primary motivations and actions are based in the foundation of loving our neighorbors, and that this is manifested even in our disagreements on public policy and the issue of race.
That is the best I can do LaShawn.
Raymond–what I was thinking of is especially true when you’re in a foreign country, and you have to learn the language in addition to the culture, in addition to looking different than other people. The “self-sufficiency” concept doesn’t work well in cultures where group dynamics and relationships are important. In fact, to be so self-oriented is seen as offensive. It’s even true with certain subcultures here in the US.
I agree with what you’re saying, I just think it depends on the situation.
Shipwrecked – “The poor credit is the best example. Why on earth would a lender turn away business for no reason? Because they feel that the borrower will default on the loan. If lenders were racist, it would be better to lend at higher rates of interest, than they would lend to whites. (Though in the real world lenders do lend to higher risk borrowers at higher interest rates than to low risk borrowers)”
Have you ever heard of redlining? That is why CRA was implemented by the Federal Government. Secondly, the higher interest rate thing does still occur if you have been following the news in home mortgage loans. But you are right, poverty can’t be taken out of the equation.
Dell, I’d really like to get down to the nitty-gritty with you on all of your points. But my coffe-break is up and I’ve got a contract to draft up by COB. If you don’t mind, I’d like to try and come back to this this evening.
But I’ll leave you with one real world case study:
When my dad completed his degrees, he had a dream that he wanted to follow. So he applied to every evangelical mission that he could think of, asking to be sent to Africa to educate & minister to the Deaf.
To follow or not to follow a dream:
1) Most of them flat out rejected him:
They didn’t think there were all that many Deaf Africans, if any.
2) Some were receptive, invited him in for an interview, saw that he was black and/or deaf, then found some reason to decline:
Racism? Discrimination of the Deaf? Perhaps. Who knows and who cares, since that’s not the point of this exercise.
3) Only one mission actually offered him a position — in Japan:
Now what’s a Black Deaf would-be missionary going to know about Japan?
So let’s look at the primary issues:
1) Let’s call that “Hearing prejudiced” or Hearing-biased:
As in, “I’ve never seen one, therefore they don’t exist”. This is reasonable from a bean-counting cost-benefit analysis. Certainly don’t want to invest a lot of money in posting a missionary where there is but a handful of targets.
2) As for the very real victimization and discrimination against the Deaf Africans:
Pagan “Hearing prejudiced” societies may view them as demon possessed and/or cursed — which oftentimes leaad to post-birth extermination — but to others, certainly useless and a burden to both their families and to society.
So here we see that the Deaf have a double whammy. On one hand, they’re outcasts in their own society, on the other hand, they were invisible to missionaries out to spread the Good News that God loves them.
Sorta makes your racism victimees rather lame by comparison, doesn’t it?
So according to your sage advice based on years of helping people, what would you suggest or recommend that my father should do to “equalize” his “points of capital” deficit and rise above this environmental roadblock?
Bear in mind this was in the mid-50s, well before AA/CRA, and at the height of Jim Crow — Alabama coalminer’s son who went North to Detroit at age 17 in 1942 in pursuit of an education, not work even though he was deaf. And I would point out that the only way he got his 5 degrees was by aligning with what mj calls plenty of allies.
I eagerly await your answer.
Dell,
I see your point exactly. To disregard racism absolves white americans from having to address racism.
It’s very easy to argue over semantics—as some have about your post; or we cay say—hey, we as americans have to fight racism as we fight terrorism and drugs.
We need to be equally appalled. And we need to put extensive efforts to eradicate it. Not accept racism. Not tell others —that’s the hand you were dealt–deal with it. Not ignore racism.
In this debate about race, people like to ignore a very important element–qualified people not having an opportunity because of their race. That element never seems to get discussed. WHY? Well, to do so makes one have to address individual and community responsibility toward combating racism.
So your proposal, Kathy, is to lower standards for all blacks because in your mind, qualified ones are denied opportunity? If the point is to address discrimination, discriminating in favor of blacks is not a solution, either.
What is the solution? Ask blacks who lived through Jim Crow and lynchings and somehow managed to THRIVE under the government’s ill-treatment. They didn’t have and probably didn’t want the government’s ill-conceived, incentive-stealing, and misguided handout policy so rampant today. Simple, dated concepts like faith in God, belief in family, sacrifices, upright behavior, and hard work are in poor supply these days.
Such would be more productive for our people. Nobody is ignoring anything. We just acknowledge a better way than whining and woe-is-us attitudes. Get your mind off what white people think and do, and forge your own destiny!
mj, oh ok. Agreed!
LB,
14 comments to get riled up this morning? This may be a new record.
Dell, the hoe analogy is almost as good as your car analogy (where white people got a Prowler and you had a Yugo).
I’ll play along, however. How many holes will you dig with a hoe before you invest in a shovel?
Now, for a government solution, would you prefer you start with a hole already started, so with the same amount of labor as the other 3 men, you can finish the hole with the hoe, or would you like to be given a shovel?
Once you have the shovel, do you want compensation for all the time you had to use the hoe? How about the labors of your hoe using predecessors?
A previous commentor noted that the other 3 men likely don’t have the same shovels, either. Once you have your shovel (I am assuming you didn’t take the nearly dug hole option), when does the fella with the entrenching tool get his new shovel?
And this doesn’t even take into account the fith man who’s land the first 4 are digging on that was stolen before and during the hoeing of previous work shifts…
Andy – I suggest that if your father believes this is the mission God burdened him with, then he is to do to pray about it, create a compelling argument as to why that is a necessary mission field, and allow God to aid him in correcting the discrimination within the church and within the culture. Your analogy, or reality if it is true, bolster my argument as opposed to minimizing it.
1. It recognized the reality of a social condition (African Deaf and the disparity in treatment culturally and the need for a ’solution’ IE salvation)
2. It showed the ‘culture’ in power’s misperception of a true need to minister to this population and therefore the continued disenfranchisement of this population.
3. It showed, if what I am gathering was correct, that, “what mj calls plenty of allies.” or people who ultimately supported his vision was necessary to correct the acts of disenfranchisement.
But the point you are leaving out is:
4. The response of the people to this missionary who recognized they were disenfranchised by their culture and by the church. Hopefully the story has a positive ending.
This proves what I am saying, the duality between social responsibility and individual responsibility. Why did you Father not simply say, “those deaf Africans need to stop complaining about being deaf and being the victims of a culture that thinks they are demon possessed and pull themselves up by their boot straps? Because he recognized through faith and God given purpose that it was his mission to be the change agent.
That is why I acknowledge the need for ‘self-determination’ but simultaneously argue that you can not give society a free pass for conditions created by individuals external to the group affected. That is why I lay responsibility at the feet of ‘whitey’ but also at the feet of the ‘black man’. The difference between the Republicans and Democrats in my opinion is that one says ‘its all whitey’ and the other says ‘its all the black man’ and they both fail miserably.
Let’s just chalk it up to sin, shall we, Dell? That way we ALL get called out. No one is given a so-called free pass, no one is heaped upon, and we can all look for ways to improve the condition of all while we’re in this world. The most important condition that needs improving, of course, is spiritual.
Kathy, you make somewhat of a valid point, but the problem is that even Black people no longer know racism when they see it which means white people have no clue. The reason is that liberals have in a cool calculated manner, redefined the definition of racism so that the term accounts for general personal failure. This keeps people dependent on their brand of “leadership.”
The feminists were successful in doing this with rape. Muddying the waters with that nonsense called “date rape.” It is either rape or it isn’t. “Hate crimes.” It is either a crime or it is not. And don’t even get me started on the garbage that is “sexual harrassment.” I fail to see why it is a crime for men who spend more time at work, a place where 80% of all married people meet their spouses, to ask a broad out on a date.
Granted, after the second refusal, THEN it may become harrassment and I don’t recommend anyone get their honey where they make their money, but geesh, let’s get real.
Anyway, as I have said, racism is but one excuse. I have heard many others that place racism way down on the totem pole. People are just plain sorry and lazy when you get down to it.
We want everything given to us. We want everything now. Think about it. What happens when you go to an ATM and it is out of service? Bet you don’t remember when there were no ATMS and banks didn’t open until 10am. Anyone remember when you had to order a hamburger and fries and then wait about 20 minutes for it to be freshly repaired?
Successful people have patience and they persist. They work through the hard times knowing brighter days will come. They know that when in a valley, the only way is up, but you can’t get out of a hole by crying, whining and moaning and waiting for a rope to just appear out of thin air. Sometimes you have to climb!
Black folk need to quit celebrating mediocrity. Stop making excuses for failure. When little Tyresius and Shaniqualetta come home with “B”s, you show EXTREME displeasure and implement whatever family policies you have created to get them to “A.”
When little LaQuandikalashay gets pregnant at 13, you do NOT throw her a baby shower and invite friends and family over to celebrate the abominable situation.
When Dontavious goes to jail for stealing or fighting or whatever, you do NOT blame it on “the system.”
Celebrate achievement. Reject mediocrity.
Do I really want in on this?
I taught high school for nearly four decades. I learned early on that everyone has his own view of reality. It is made up of personal snapshots in his mind’s eye that are strung together. Eventually, his personal reality begins to color what he meets.
If a child has had an abusive parent and been mishandled by others, he begins to “believe” that certain situtations can not be trusted. I often had to overcome the expectation of some students who believed that no male or no white person could possibly be sincere or trusted.
Unfortunately, some people become so invested in their personal reality, that they allow themselves to believe that they pretty much alone possess the “real truth.”
The good thing about having a strong belief system coupled with an open mind and a well honed ability to listen is that you can often help others bridge the gaps we all have in our personal “realities.”
The world is full of people who do not want to hear your “excuse.” Now that is a true reality. It is up to each of us to figure out how to succeed with that truth. If I can’t get the job because of race, sexual preference, no arm, felony record, ugly face, being too short, etc. I will just have to “pick myself up, brush myself off, and start all over again.”
Sometimes we all need to come together to confront instituionalized bias. I think that is usually a noble cause.
But when you start on a crusade to use government force to change a person’s concept of reality, you had better be very certain and specific about the facts.
Islamists have a very strong belief system and a significant number of them are dedicted to subjugating or destroying those who do not agree with their view of reality. That is an obvious, current and deadly example.
Racism (I include ethnic groups too) certainly has vestiges in this country. If that is part of your reality, I suppose the only friendly advice anyone can give you is to find your way to those who do not punish you with their bias. If you can not find any such people, you need to have a serious, sit down session with your “personal reality system.” You are holding yourself back and in that sense you are a worse enemy to yourself than any perceived bias.
Heliotrope: Two questions. What is an “islamist” and why did you capitalize the term? Why should people have open minds. I find that an open mind is often polluted with garbage.
I prefer to see people who have learned HOW to think and don’t just let anything into their brains.
Dell said, “Basically, to use an analogy, if me and four other guys are equal, and we all have a task to complete, say digging a 4×4 hole and all four are given shovels and I am given a hoe that is a cost to me and my productivity.”
The fellow starting out with the hoe is at a distinct disadvantage. However, he has a choice.
He can grumble about his lot in life and demand somebody give him a shovel to do the work. While he’s waiting on the government to pass the legislation that demands all people are giving shovels, the other three guys have already made enough money to hire a guy to help them dig holes. The hoe guy gets his shovel, but then realizes he is still at a disadvantage. He starts digging and makes a modest living, but again he grumbles to the government that we should all be able to afford hired help. The other guys have bought new equipment and hired a few more employees. The government comes through again, but of course the disparity already exists and will alway exist with government aid.
Now, the guy with the hoe could have looked at his hoe and recognized he was going to stay behind if he didn’t work twice as hard and smarter. He could of looked around his community and said that there was a big market for smaller holes for people that can’t afford the cost of big holes. He could work steadily, building up a strong reputation and customer base. In time he can fianlly afford to buy that shovel. He can dig the big holes now. After a while, the big outfits that started out with the shovel take notice and say we have got to hire this guy. He works hard and smart and one day has the capital and custormer base to go out on his own as a big player himself.
The first scenereo has huge implications for the individual and the greater society. Dependency and feelings of victimhood for the individual. Resentment, division, and burdens on the taxpayers are serious consequences for society.
The second scenereo leads to unity, pride, and selfsufficiency. I don’t think any of us regardless of race, age, sex, income, etc. will ever have the same tools or get the same results. However, the way we choose to make our journey and complete our tasks are the hallmarks of character.
Great post La Shawn.
Sentences like this that he wrote, “No amount of state or federal assistance can teach us the intangibles of trust, love and respect, for one another,” apply to all people.
For as much of the vitriol that is slung at others (conservatives), no amount of Republican increases in federal dollars will ever teach liberals/Democrats the intangibles of trust, love and respect, for one another.
I’ve said that both Democrats and Republicans (conservatives and liberals) WANT to solve problems. Their hearts are generally in the right place. Conservatives are different than liberals in the solution type though. While we are more interested in the “teaching how to fish rather than giving the fish”, liberals talk about how mean-spirited that is instead of stopping to think about how conservatives ARE really trying to address the problem with a REAL solution.
I’m not interested (and get incensed) in all of the personal accusations. DS does it about Ward Connerly. Others made inaccurate accusations about Armstrong Williams. Most liberals bash Bush.
I’m interested in the ideas and policy recommendations on the issues. La Shawn’s post addresses ideas. I like her ideas and thoughts. I wish everybody did.
RedBeard #1, (Had to say #1
),
That’s what I’m talking about. Working here deep in the bowels of the state of California, I run into this mindset too often. When Condaleeza Rice was nominated for Secretary of State, when the topic of social security reform comes up, when the topic of corporations comes up, when the topic of the environment comes up, or tax cuts or stem cell research or anything it is an overwhelming negativity (far greater than the Democrat leadership on C-SPAN) towards Bush and the evil Republicans.
It is not just their methodology, but let the truth be told. Democrats are not interested in solving problems. They are interested in exacerbating them or creating new ones in order to be there to “help” out.
The only way for someone to be needed is to hope for or create more problems. You think The Democrats, Jesse Jackson, Tavis Smiley, the Congressional Black Caucus and others want to see a self sufficient, economically Black people? Get real.
LaShawn,
Being deaf or blind are bad handicaps, and anyone overcoming one or both is to be applauded. If your parents or grandparents worked extremely hard so that you would have life better, be thankful to them (as I am). But this is not governmental but rather family. The person “Renee” that tries to reason with 17-year-old nephew has “stars in her crown”. Young males can be more hard-headed and stupid then any group.
Most of the high school dropouts are male. I am over sixty and it seems to be getting worst. I know of a friend’s younger (14 years) whose Daddy and brother did everything to keep him in school including things the government would not like today. At forty plus he makes a million or more each year in the computer field and wishes he had more then a BS in computer science. Most of the high school dropouts are males. Males are more hardheaded than females on average and commit more
violent crimes. In Cobb’s blog black conservatives including you, LaShawn, are criticized. A series on PBS by certain Harvard prof with degree from Yale points out the being black today means education, power, and still
some are poor and in projects. The guy is Henry Louis Gates, Jr. He got an education by his father
working two jobs. LaShawn, I fixed red-eye in your pic and emailed to you.
James M. Barber
are criticized by some writers.
Dell #3 wrote, “If you acknowledge that racism has a cost, which you do and have done, and you acknowledge that it must be risen above, then logically you have to also acknowledge that racism causes disparity in some form or fashion.”
Is racism one way Dell? How does the government quantify the amount of racism (preferential treatment/discrimination) towards each race and then apply remedies? When I was in the Navy from 1988-1994 there were a bunch of awards handed out for various things. Because the Navy was making a concious effort as most entities were towards affirmative action a much higher percentage of the awards during ceremonies were given to African Americans. That is racism against the other races. One can argue that we needed to go through that period to get enough Cheifs and Officers in the Navy who were African American. My question though is when does it stop. At some point Ward Connerly and La Shawn’s ideas need to be started with.
My two children should be where it starts. There should be no instance when my two children ever have to be given preferential treatment to or against based on their race of half Asian and half Caucasian. Period.
I got the e-mail, James, but there was no pic attached.
The people who complain about me on other blogs (in posts where I’m not even the subject!) are ineffectual and digruntled black liberal men I’ve kicked off this blog. The poor things have nowhere else to go to whine about me, and whine about me of all people is something they seem compelled to do. Am I that much of a threat to the mean-old-white-folks-are-to-blame-for-our-ills illusion they’ve propped up? Apparently.
Dell #8 asked, “Can you prove to me that statistically whites in aggregate are affected by the mythological ‘reverse racism’”
You probably have read Ward Connerly’s book Creating Equal. If not, the answer to your question lies in his book and other books like his. The proves to you statistically and anecdotally. Both. Convincingly. End of argument.
I knew by commenting that I’d be digging myself into a hole.
Dell #13 wrote, “But throughout the bible the ability to remove the poor from the circumstance of being poor is acknowledged as ‘righteous’ behavior.”
Dell, the bible doesn’t advocate socialism nor communism. (Government choosing who gets what resources). Short of the government getting involved and removing wealth to “remove the poor” as you put it that would be capitalism (defined as the people choosing who gets what resources).
Obviously in this country there is a hybrid approach. The government has been choosing who gets what resources in a big way. For over 40 years we’ve been in a War on Poverty with an ever increasing set of entitlements. I don’t know from your posts what “removing the poor” is when it comes to reality. Nor do I know what solution you are advocating for. Nor does it negate Andy’s statement that we are dealth with what we have and we should work with that. Bill Gates and the Walton’s have more. They have the bulldozer. I have the hand trowel. That is life. In many situations I’ve seen preferential treatment. The point is that it should END. Every race has poor. Every city, every county, every state. Every race. You can’t “remove the poor”.
THE best solution is to teach the able bodied how to fish and not give them the fish. It is more righteous (for the able-bodied) to earn their way in life and not be expectant or dependant on others to just give. That is OUR opinion.
Dell #19 wrote, “Or is it the fact that I disagree with you that offends you?”
Using your Christian beliefs to tell others how unChristianlike they are for advocating for teaching people how to fish rather than giving them fish or in your words “removing the poor” as if we weren’t interested (as if you knew what we were interested in) is the key to the puzzle.
It comes off as an attack on our principles, core beliefs, religion, values and our MOTIVES.
We are well meaning and shouldn’t have to defend ourselves as such.
Dell wrote, “But you know, if Andy has spent a significant amount of time working with poor black people spiritually, educationally, and economically, and having the positive results I have had…”
There you go. You are the anti-dote to racism. You give the boost to people that I’ve never received.
I’ve worked since 16. Paid for my own cars. Paid for my own insurance on my own policy. Paid taxes along the way. Got out of the fast food work with the military. Worked on computer stuff for 18 years. Paid taxes along the way. Have had a family. Paid taxes along the way. Studies. Done well in my studies. Saved money. Spent as wisely as I can. Paid more taxes. Didn’t receive benefits. Didn’t receive Dell Gine’s help economically, educationally or spiritually (well on some level
)
Kathy #28 wrote, “We need to be equally appalled. And we need to put extensive efforts to eradicate it. Not accept racism.”
1) We are all equally apalled. Nobody wants it to exist. Liberals do this all the time (think they know what is in a conservatives mind due to the difference in solutions)
2) We all want it eradicated. That would be treating people equally. That would be no preferential treatment or discrimination based on race. That would be Proposition 209 which is the law of the land here in California (California Civil Rights Initiative written by Ward Connerly – author of “Creating Equal”
3) Who is wanting to accept racism? Nobody wants to accept it. People want to propose it with preferential treatment. Racism all around is a reality. That doesn’t speak for whether or not anyone wants to accept is just because they say it’s there and don’t want preferential treatment.
Kathy. Conservatives and liberals differ on the solutions. Not on the motives to have no racism. We all (generally) want everyone not to be poor, to not be discriminated against, to not have racism exist. How do you get there? Conservatives have solutions and liberals have solutions. Dell and yourself find it easy to think that you know what conservatives have in their minds. Unfortunately that doesn’t further the debate.
I wasn’t sure if I wanted to get into this but here goes.
For the most part, I agree with Dell. The conditions of the black community is primarily due to systematic racism. Having said that; what is the primary factor that keep many black people in that same condition? There are a host of reason and racism as well as personal responsibility are certainly valid reasons.
The problem with debating like this is that it is very abstract and academic. But to experience racism in the flesh makes it something very different. I’ve come face to face with racism and it almost cost me my life. I remember when my brother came face to face with it and he almost ended up under a moving car. I’m afraid my grandchildren will be talking about this so the best that a person can do is live life and do what many here have suggested: rise above it.
I’m not going to spend any energy trying to change someone’s heart. For those who believe racism has no impact on our lives, then so be it. For those who believe they can’t do anything because of racism, then they are of the mindset that they can’t overcome any adversities. Me? I’m going to live my life and hope my kids never have to jump the same hurdles and dodge the same bullets I did. Racism or no racism, I still have bill to pay and children to raise.
Oh, so white people don’t experience Racism, James? Funny, I disagree. Affirmative Action is racism against whites…Males mostly.
Also, being called Honky and cracker by a group of black youths is what? Just a friendly “Hey there!”?
Aside from that, the ‘gotta get me some’ mentality even exists in whites…I have a ‘friend’ who complained bitterly that he had to pay unemployment benefits (taxes) so some lazy bum could sit on his #&@ at home for a few months…He gets laid off…and what’s he do? “Well, I paid into it! I should get it back out! So I’m going to sit on my butt for a few months before looking for a job”…
Phaw…Lazy people..
Dan
James–I lived in Japan for three years, and it took me five years to get over it. My experience was like the “Invisible Man” and the “Sambo” character from the early movies, in addition to the other stuff that goes along with living abroad and learning a language. It screwed me up and made me bitter, and other weird experiences followed when I traveled and when I came back to the US. So I agree that there’s racism and it’s hurtful.
Dan:
I didn’t say racism against whites didn’t exist. I said the condition of the black community is primarily due to systematic racism. That’s it.
Dan Said:
Also, being called Honky and cracker by a group of black youths is what? Just a friendly “Hey there!�
I Say:
Yes, those are racist comments and I can’t even count the number of times some young white kids drove by in a car yelling nigger at me.
But none of this was the premise of my post.
Racism in Japan is quite overt, but let not your heart be troubled. The Japanese have a history of hating everyone who is not Japanese.
The only thing they respect is artfully applied nuclear fission.
As a white person I experience racism everyday. When discussing the impropriety of giving a “star student” award to a black child that had been in constant trouble and had a shadow person following him around all day because he was violent; the black receptionist of our school stood up and made the statement that “there are a lot of mean, hateful white people.” Nobody, including the principal, challenged this statement. It was a debate stopper. She won her way by throwing out the race card. The spectar of white racism ends most debate in public sectors before it can even start. The opinions of whites are systematically shut down lest we be viewed as racist. We continually censor ourselves and keep our mouths shut about blatantly poor decisions and double standards because that is the atmosphere we live in everyday. I have seen black employees and students get a free pass for the same infractions that create major reprecusions for whites. I also know alot of white people that DO make up their mind about a person’s character based on the color of their skin. I do hear racist slurs used when talking about black people. These things are real. But racism is far from a one way street. This is unhealthy for everybody. We need to be colorblind NOT color hypersensitive.
James still has not described or defined this so-called “system” thing. Educate us…..if you can.
For James Manning only: Systematic racism? What the heck is systematic racism? Please define it and give me an example. And please, please don’t tell me an anecdote about sales people following around blacks in stores or the way some white person looked at you the other day.
We’ve gone around and around on this before. I asked you to define and give examples of racism: http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/06/15/youre/#comment-49019
And I responded: http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/06/15/youre/#comment-49035
Must we go through it again?
I think we also need to be careful just throwing around the term “racist.” That term by definition implies a belief in your race’s own superiority over others.
Honestly speaking, I have ill feelings towards people of many races and cultures. it would be dishonest to say otherwise. If you were to overhear some of the things I say about my own people sometimes, you’d swear I was a grand dragon of the KKK.
ALL people discriminate and criticize that which they don’t understand or things that don’t conform to their own culture. It is when you inteject pure hate and then act on it that we have a problem.
Me racist? I don’t think so. Me insensitive and discriminating? You betcha.
I use the word systematic and institutionalized racism interchangeably. So when I say that I am talking about slavery, jim crow and a host of other things that took place.
James #51 wrote, “For those who believe racism has no impact on our lives, then so be it.
I don’t know anyone who is saying this James. Where we differ is the solutions not the recognition of this specific problem existing or having an impact.
Suit yourself, James. That’s a non-responsive answer, but I won’t push it. I just hope and pray you’re not teaching your children that moral problems in the black community, theirs or anyone else’s, are caused by white people.
Raymond #41 wrote, “Democrats are not interested in solving problems.are interested in solving problems. They differ no the solutions however. And… They have been brainwashed for decades to believe that Republicans aren’t interested in solving problems. That is the mentality that you are displaying in reverse (knowing what someone’s motives and intentions are). You’ve seen me write about that previously.
My post got hammered.
I said that I’ll give it to you on the Democrat leadership maybe.
But every one of the Democrat rank and files that I talk to everyday have a motive and intent and my interpretation is that they are interested in solving problems. They have just been brainwashed for decades to believe that Republicans aren’t interested..
And they differ on the solutions.
“systematic and institutionalized racism” – Words of James’
It was the law of the land in California before the CA Civil Rights Initiative (Prop 209). That was institutionalized racism. Now it’s ended.
La Shawn, I don’t. In fact those are not topics that come up at all. I have a three year old so the only thing we talk about is Clifford, Candyland, Barbie and a host of Disney movies. In fact, her grandmother is white (my girlfriend is mixed black/white) so our family dinners on race are interesting to say the least with at four ethnic groups represented at any given time.
But I will teach my kids what they need to know to make it in this world.
James, what’s that? Blame “whitie?”
good show, Lashawn.
Thanks, Stephen.
Time flew…
I agree with you %100 on this.
Andy, (off topic, sorry La Sahawn)
I would really like to discuss ministering to the deaf with you as you know my son is deaf (I didn’t know this but I guessed from some of your previous comments about the deaf that you had experience in the area).
Dell, quick question, please clarify from #32
“4. The response of the people to this missionary who recognized they were disenfranchised by their culture and by the church. Hopefully the story has a positive ending.
This proves what I am saying, the duality between social responsibility and individual responsibility. ”
Methinks you mistake Christian responsisbility for social responsiblity. No wheredoes the Bible discuss social responsibilities, rather the responsibilities of the faithful to society around them.
That’s a BIG Difference in the resulting world view.
Funny thing is, my parents’ “rise above racism” didn’t transfer to me, and my “rise above racism” is not going to keep my children from having to “rise” again.
I attribute it to each successive generation not really picking up the lessons of its predecessors. 40 years ago, white males used to control 99% of the highest paying jobs in the economy, and now that they only control 80%, they are victims of “reverse racism,” and suddenly want a little group politics to work in their favor. How ironic.
Merriam-Webster (on-line) defines racism/racist as follows;
A belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
For all you Blacks out there that think you are the “superior” race in America you are RACISTS!!
For those Whites (I am a Black man)on this thread, I would like to personally apologize for the suffering you might have endured caused by those Blacks that believe they are superior to you. As a Black man I am dismayed that people of my race think that they are superior to anyone in this country. Why, thats almost like a “reverse Bell Curve.” Hey Black people, wheres your heavily funded study showing your racist hypothesis, huh…? Wheres Jesse Jackson and the NAACP? They don’t even have a study. Richard Mellon Scaife and the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation funded the Bell Curve. The NAACP has enough money to fund a study, or maybe Oprah, but nooooooo, you think you’re “superior” in this country. La Shawn lets work together to try and quell this tide of Black superiority beliefs in America. Black people should not be “racist” in such a forgiving and equality based society such as our’s. We’ve got everything a race of ex-slaves could want (ask, beg, whine, mooch, sponge and sue) for. We have our own neighborhoods, for the most part our own schools and churchs, our own caucus in congress, heck we even have our own cemeteries. All of these were gifts by who? The White government. Don’t look a gifted horse in the mouth. Let’s get it together Black people!
Sarcastically yours…
Hipstreet, your personal apology is accepted.
Hey, Hipstreet, we are on the same page. I am not black but neither am I anglo-saxon white, my ancestory being Czech. Anyway none of this really matters because to me there is no black,white or other shade,there is only persons, all brothers and sisters in Christ.
La Shawn, you wrote that you read an article written by a black conservative who debunked the usual black rascist woe crap. Believe me there are many conservative blacks that believe the same. Bill Cosby certainly is one as are these black conservative writers: Larry Elder, Mychal Massie, Star Parker, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell. You might want to check them out.
Too much secular purview on this comment section. Andy has it right, in that we need a reality check to what our real mission is:
Take the tools the Lord has blessed us with, and use them to glorify Him.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say to fret over racism. In fact, God commands us to glorify him in spite of what negative circumstances “whitey” or any other person who commits discrimination throws our way.
For those of you with the secular viewpoint, the continued blame of others does nothing to lift you up. Irregardless of how bad life may leave you, it is still your responsibility to make the best of your circumstance. You still have choices.
Thanks for commenting, DJB, but I said some black conservatives think that way, not all. I have heard of the people you mention, of course. I’ve been blogging and writing for a combined three years and living for 38.
See the following links:
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2004/07/19/brconservative-university-2004lunch-with-star/
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/05/11/how-2/
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2004/08/05/conservatives-liberals-blacks/
and the entire “BC Wisdom” category: http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/category/bc-wisdom/
Independent: I know what you’re talking about. Similar stuff, different place.
If X% of a group is achieving, can that X% be said to be embracing “victimology”?
Suppose that X% is approximately 2/3 of the group?
Now, if that group is said to be Black, what does that mean?
If you claim most Blacks are falling under “victimology” but that most Blacks are achieving, then it’s nonsense to say that people who embrace “victimology” aren’t achieving.
Jewish people practice “collectivism” but nothing negative is said about them. D’Souza castigated Blacks for “collectivism” thinking and then turned around and stated Blacks should act in a “collectivist” manner like some immigrants and Jewish people.
Most Blacks who face racism deal with it. We may complain but we deal with it and move on.
[ Generality alert. No direct comment to the blog hostess intended ]
Public conservatives make a bigger deal of “Black leadership” than do the Black community in general. This is because “Black leadership” is a low hanging fruit to attack. It does nothing to help engage those who are truly willing to engage in conversation or exchange of ideas. In fact, I think that is the purpose. It really is not for the consumption of Black individuals. Otherwise public conservatives, who claim that conservatives have a positive message, would do more to highlight Blacks and Black groups who are following a different path than “Black leadership” who, BTW, is defined by the media for the most part.
Your last paragraph makes no sense.
I didn’t here about Jesse Lee Peterson from non-conservatives. I never hear about Ward Connerly (except to deride him) from non-conservatives. What is your beef? It was conservatives who DID follow your last sentence. It was conservatives who did highlight Project 21.
I’ve been telling you and you’ve been acting all I told you so instead of learning from what I had to say that your beef is with the mass media. You seem to not even know what the conservative message is. You are all mixed up and swinging this way and that and hitting nothing.
I’ve asked you why don’t you stick to the issues instead of characterizing people. Why don’t you address why we can or can’t this day start with our children and have NO racial preferential treatment or discrimination policies by the government.
I know I shouldn’t have written this because the response will be about someone’s character (something you don’t like – misrepresenting what their intentions/motives/beliefs are).
I don’t think I’ve ever heard the mainstream media talk about Star Parker. It was conservatives.
Good Lord. I don’t understand your last paragraph.
This is a good piece in Booker Rising.
http://bookerrising.blogspot.com/2005/07/cosby-republicans-key-to-reviving.html
Booker Rising and Cobb do an excellent job of trying to deaggregate the Black community. IMO, that’s something that public conservatives, in general, don’t want to do unless it’s to “uplift” someone they like.
http://www.blackselfhelp.info.
Black people doing positive things to affect positive change for Black people.
Why don’t public conservatives hightlight such groups listed at that website?
Last week, my seventeen year old daughter was bumped up to first class on a flight. A black man was sitting next to her, reading a magazine, filled with vitriolic filth toward white people, such as; “all evil is found in the flesh of the white man.” His four friends, all in first class were reading hideous papers and magazines as well. She was terrified to ask him to get up so she could go to the bathroom. That same day, while walking my dog, I met a man from Nigeria. I live in a poor neighborhood, where there seems to be a great deal of hostility, which has stunned and devastated me. Daniel, the Nigerian man, owns a taxi business. He said that black people from the neighborhood refuse to pay him, call him a F___ing N____, and then tell him to go back to Africa. Shocked, I asked him why, and he said that they are enraged by his success, because he is proof that a black man can get ahead by working hard. He said that they are incredibly racist toward the Indian and Vietnamese people in the neighborhood as well. My Vietnamese hair dresser said that many of her Vietnamese friends have suffered a great deal of abuse at the hands of angry black people, and many are actually fearful. When I first moved to my home, I saw a group of black kids going to school one day. I looked up, smiled, and said “Hey, guys! How’s it going?” They replied, “F__you, white B___!” Famous black people say horrendous things all the time, that a white person would never be allowed to get away with saying. Miles Davis was quoted in Jet magazine stating that if he had only one hour left to live, he would spend it choking a white man to death. Eldridge Cleaver said how exquisite it was sticking it to the white man by raping his women. My beautiful eldest daughter was brutally raped by an illegal alien spewing racial epithets. After she got out of the hospital, she was practically destroyed. What is so amazing is that my Grandmother married a black man after my grandfather died, decades ago, and I love him dearly. My eldest is married to an immigrant from Columbia, another is engaged to an immigrant from Cuba, and my granddaughter’s father is from Ecuador. Three of my five children were actually born in the Middle East, and all of them have always had best friends from every country under the sun.None of us ever even thought very much about race one way or another. Yet, since we returned here, to live in a poor neighborhood, we have been subjected to vindictive racist behavior on a daily basis. It’s quite amazing really. Recently, there was a forum in which black students in Austin spoke out in great anger about how they did not feel nurtured by the city. None of my kids had a clue how a city was supposed to nurture them, and all they remember was working non-stop. Two of the angry individuals were married, and going to an institution that costs well over thirty-thousand a year each for tuition. Neither one worked. The other student who spoke was a law student who said she had turned down UT as she felt it was too racist. Now, my second daughter, while going to UT worked two jobs, seventy hours a week, and went to school full time. She said that she was so exhausted that she would not have recognized nurturance if it had knocked her upside the head. In fact, no teacher spoke to her the entire time, and she was very lonely after coming here from the Middle East. Yet, the black students have special facilities, mentors, and a free ride. I just don’t get it. In the meantime, two Jewish students were hospitalized after being attacked on campus in separate incidents, for being Jewish. Further, it is totally acceptable on all colllege campuses to bash whites, especially white males and to only speak of the slavery as an evil white phenomenon, while ignoring the fact that one third of all the freed blacks in New Orleans had slaves, and that slavery is endemic to cultures all over the world, and througout history. Meanwhile, in the Smithsonian, there is an exhibit that says that slavery is only dehumanizing when it involves white men enslaving black people. Yet, I lived in Saudi Arabia where slavery was very common and two Indonesian maids were slaughtered on my block by their Arab’masters’.All slavery is dehumanizing, which is why I was a civil rights activist in the sixties. Incidentally,what many people do not realize is that there are 2.7 times more poor white people in the United States than there are black people, yet we only hear about black poverty. If a white person is poor, it is all their fault…If a black person is poor, it is all someone else’s fault….By the way, college educated, married blacks make the same salary as whites, and college educated black women make more than college educated white women or men. And, just for esoteric interest, Asians, Indians, and Arabs, all make significantly more than whites, and I hardly think it is because of racism. I know I’ve gone on too long, but I think it is so critical to look truth in the face. Racism does exist, and I’d be a fool to deny it. At the same time, there is a staggering amount of racism towards whites which is having an enormous impact. The constant reinforcement of racism charges by liberals and so many black leaders, I think is creating enormous hatred in our country. For God’s sake, for ours, and our country’s, we have to come together on common ground. We have to take a stand against the hatred! I hope I don’t get kicked off the blog for this entry, but I have to take a stand. What is happening in my neighborhood, and all over the country, is hurting everyone except for those who make a living pimping off of the poverty, pain,and victimology of others.
Cobb and Booker Rising do what they do, and I do what I do. Different blogs, different focus. They’re moderate Republicans; I’m a Christian and independent conservative.
I don’t get to your self-help site often, but I’ll try to make an effort.
jan,
Until I was born again, I didn’t understand it either (and I’m Black)…
Now…
I think Andy said it best earlier…
it’s SIN, plain and simple. However to unregenrate man it has to have a name and someone has to be the blame (even when we aren’t doing what we are supposed to be doing)…
I call it the Rodney King reflex (”so what I was driving like lunatic while high, they still had no reason to beat me….true but why were you high and driving like a lunitic in the first place”).
Outside of the Word, you’ll go nuts trying to understand the lunacy of it all.
Random question…
Is there a difference between “Gospel Music” and “Christian Music”?
There is to the radio world.
Why?
#86 jan brauner
I can not let your statements go unaddressed. Never have I risen to the “bait” or picked a “fight” in my postings, and I will not do so now.
What you have said from your vast experience is right on target. The society is full of whites who deny they have prejudices and blacks who make the same claim. Fine, let them believe their fairy tale world.
If you look at the military today, you see a scrapbook of faces and backgrounds that is as broad as it can be. These individuals know that they are only as strong as the mates around them. They defend, rescue, rely upon humans of all ethnic, religious and geographic descriptions. They have no time for racism if for no other reason than it can be very costly in time of crisis.
Those of us who have learned to deal heart to heart have long since gotten over our superficial differences.
This particular topic has brought out some amazing myopia. I am sure that you could read down the list and find more than one poster parading as a victim or great profit who is wearing a dark cloak of intolerance.
It is easy to tell from your post that your children have been raised with a strong belief system and a pretty good nose for those who are feeding from an unhealthy trough.
Renee;
Once again, you’re right!
The site you led me to asked a bunch of irrelevant questions (imo). It was race dominated.
Why do I say that? Because the author (like you) seem to not know what conservativism is. You both come at it as if it’s extreme (and needs to be moderated). I’ve stated for years that conservativism is centrism. It’s realism. It’s common sensism. It’s doing the right thing. It’s well intentioned. There is a lot of talk by the site you led me to about moderates and moderate conservatives and what not. And that’s fine. But where the rubber meets the road what does that mean?
Does it mean SOME preferential treatment Darkstar? Is that what you are for? It exists now. Conservatives (in general) are for no preferential treatment/discrimination based on race, gender, etc.
What does it mean with any other issue? Conservatives are the ones in between libertarians who want 80% cut in government to liberals who want dramatic growth in government. Conservatives range from wanting moderate decrease in government to no increase in government. Where do you stand? If you are to the left of that then you might very well stand in the Republican party but you might very well be a full fledged liberal.
Questions:
1) Would you want a) any federal money spent on stem cells b) federal money spent on stem cells as Bush proposed c) more federal money spent on stem cells than Bush proposed d) other-explain
2) Would you want a) A Prop 209 like initiative or law passed in every state b) some Prop 209 pieces passed but exclusions for either Universities or Contracting c) status quo with respect to “affirmative action” d) other-explain
3) Would you want tax rates a) raised generally b) raised on rich people c) kept the same as now d) other-explain
4) Would you vote for a school voucher program that gives a) a $4,000 voucher to a parent to the school of their choice b) $2,000 to a parent to the school of their choice c) $2,000 to a school (not parent) that the parent picks from a pre-approved list of schools d) no vouchers e) other-explain.
Heliotrope;
Thanks! Your words mean a lot.
jan, Like you, I am absolutely stunned by the anger and divisions in our country. However, never forget that there are more good and decent people in the world than there are evil and misguided people. It’s just the bad that gets the press and that stands out in our minds. If you ever get the chance, make a list that says kindness and ugliness. Mark a tally for each time an incident falls on the list. At the end of the day, you will find that good is kicking evil’s butt. It may sound a little simplistic and naive, but it’s my way of rising above. Bitterness can turn us into that which we most mistrust and despise.
Independent;
I pray every day that good will kick evil’s butt….I guess I won’t know till I check it out. Great advice!
Raymond: Yeah, I know quite well that the Japanese are into their own group. It actually taught me how to appreciate the country you’re from–there’s nothing wrong with being patriotic.
Baklava: I’d like to take a crack at your quiz…
1) d. other: I am wholly opposed to profiting from the bodies of slain innocents.
2) a. Proposition 209 or such-like statute in every state
3) d. other: I would like to see the sixteenth amendment, permitting direct taxation, repealed.
4) d. other: I would like the government wholly out of education.
I’m an African American who believes in what the potential of America can be: in other words…we still have a long ways to go. This nation talks about Jesus, but by and large attends segregated church services on Sunday, which coincides with the largely segregated societies that ring our major cities. Conservatives talk about eliminating racial preferences by the government, while not addressing the racial preferences that work against minorities when it comes to hiring, promotion, housing, lending and law enforcement. In other words, it’s lip-service, with a wink and nod to the status quo.
Dell Gines is absolutely on point with his ditch-digging analogy. The first step in this dialogue must be the acknowlegement of the FACTS about Race in America.
Jan, I appreciate your post as well. You have experiences that have shaped your opinions and I respect them. In fact, it’s the sharing of those experiences that allows me to get a deeper understanding of your mindset. What I can ask you to do, is to listen with equal attention to the experiences of others, and trust me, the result upon you will be similar.
Yes, LaShawn, you can “rise above racism.” You can rise above many obstacles in life, but that doesn’t excuse the “obstacle-maker.”
http://www.thecobraslair.com/images/ENDANGERED-SPECIES-STREAM.gif
–Cobra
–Cobra
Lets’ get serious if I may. My previous post re: “Black racism” was a sarcastic piece. Again, Webster defines racism/racist as;
A belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
The key word here is “SUPERIORITY.” Ask the average (or for that matter any) Black person in this country if they believe that Black people are the superior race in this country. I have yet to hear any so-called Black leader espouse the superiority of Black people in America. Yet, some wish to refer to Blacks as racists. By the definition of racism itself, one would have to believe the his/her race is SUPERIOR! I am not a follower of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the NAACP or Louis Farrakan. Yet, I have never heard any of these individuals or organizations adopting a BLACK SUPERIORITY concept.
Although their was one group that did espouse the idea that Blacks were “better” than whites, The Black Panthers, remember them? I seem to remember reading released official CIA documents that have shown the group was targeted by the powers that be during the organizations hey-day. Futhermore, most of the prominent leaders in the Panther organization were convicted and jailed on various charges.
Racism dosen’t exist in a vacuum. It’s overt qualities are known to us all. It’s the covert qualities that keeps it alive in America. Kevin’s responce to my earlier post read “your apology is accepted.” This person (whom I assume is White) was obviously agreeing with my sarcastic diatribe. Let me inform you of something that without much doubt you should be aware of. The Whites did’nt GIVE Blacks their schools, churchs, and nieghborhoods. The Whites (at least in most urban area’s such as Detroit where I live) LEFT these things behind when they fled the city. Now the prominent and successful Blacks are fleeing to the suburbs. Okay, it is true that Blacks have screwed up and are still screwing up socially and politically. But does that make Blacks “racist.” By no meaning of the word can Blacks be called racist. Are Blacks elevated to superiority when they purchase a home in a White nieghborhood and the Whites begin to move out? Or when Whites refuse to move in because the nieghborhood is “too Black.” (It’s possible a few will, but not a majority). In middle-class America this still exists to this day as census statistics show.
Honestly, can you show me a bastion or conclave in American society that has had a LONG term history of total intergration. My family moved into a predominately white nieghborhood in Detroit in the late 60s’when I was 10 years old. I had several White friends. By the time I turned 15, all those friends and their families had moved away. At age 12 I remember asking one of my White friends why were they moving. He told me his father said it was time for them to leave because the nieghborhood was changing. At the time I did’nt know what he meant. Now I know.
Come to Detroit and ask any sane Black person of average intelligence, be it the Mayor, City Council, School Principal, Police Chief or the man on the street; “As a Black person in America, do you think that you are superior to White people?” Ask him/her under the cloak of anonymity (by using a Black person as the interviewer) or a non-personal survey. Belive me, the initial response will be, “are you crazy?” or something along those lines.
I think we have to come up with a word or term that would fit a Black person that believes that he is superior to Whites in this country. How about “IDIOT.”
I am not a RACIST. I am a REALIST. Personally, I could give less than a damn if you’re White, Brown, Yellow or Red. If you treat me with respect, i’ll respond in kind.
Oh yeah, did I forget to mention my wife is White.
I get along well with my mother-in-law and sister-in-law, unfortunatley her father, brothers and most of her other family members totally reject me and our children. Go figue!
“You can rise above many obstacles in life, but that doesn’t excuse the “obstacle-maker.—
LB and most of us are not trying to excuse the “obstacle-maker”. That being said, what LB and others point out is that the dialogue is exclusively focused on the “obstacle-maker”, so much so that individuals do not take the initiative or resposnibility for themselves. The issue is with individuals who want the government to take care of their problems for them, rather than doing everything within their power to effect change…no matter what obstacles lie in their way. The fact of the matter is that over 2/3 of the black community does exactly that. Like DarkStar often says, why aren’t we hearing more about their stories? Get out of your vacuum. There is a negative focus on the other 1/3rd and rightly so. Perhaps if they modeled themselves after the others who get it right, we could have a more constructive dialogue about racism in this country. Who wants to talk when each side doesn’t want to trust each other to be civil? When civility can return to the discussion, then maybe??? progress can be made on the other 1/3rd.
Cobra;
I have spent a life-time listening to the words of black people.I read their words, and have a huge library of every black writer I can find. My children’s God-parent’s are black in addition to my grandfather.I spent every summer of my life on 24th ST NE in DC in an all black neighborhood,and all my friends were black, though I didn’t think much about it, because that is the way I grew up. I study every statistic I can find on race relations.In particular, I found Thomas Sowell’s ‘Applied Economics’ a good starting place for an understanding of race statistics. However, as Thomas Sowell says, disparity is not the same as correlation, and that is often the mistake that is made when people speak about race.
Lastly, I grew up very poverty stricken. My five brothers slept in one bed, and my sister and I in another, which had a big hole in it stuffed with magazines. We went barefoot in the summers, and we never had new clothes. I never stepped into a beauty shop or dentist until long after I was married. Our car had a hole in the back floor.Other parts of that life were difficult as well. Ergo, I can understand being poor, also.
For the twenty four years that I lived in Saudi Arabia, my husband handed over twenty-thirty percent of his salary and I started businesses for minorities from the third world. We had a blast together. I had guys from Bombay, Kerala, Nepal, the Philipines, Sri Lanka, and so on. They became my best friends, and we did awesome work together. Since we were togeter every day for twelve hours, I had an intimate view into their lives, their concerns, their pains, and they into mine. Over a period of time, we truly shared at a very deep level.
So, Cobra, I truly have listened, and I have listened hard. And I’ve studied, and I’ve studied hard. But…I do want to know what you think, and why you think it. So, I am going to e-mail you. In the meantime, get any works by Thomas Sowell as a good starting point. He is far more eloquent than I am. By the way, it is my contention that I can provide you with FACTS that will make you really really think. So, let’s see where this heads. I want to change the dialogue about race in the US, and it has to start with us. So, Great!
To all:
1. Prejudice is due to sin. Racism is like smog–it will always be with us.
People who are sensitive to impurities in the air have two options for breathing: adapt or live in a purified air bubble. Those who chose to adapt can then make other choices–to advocate for cleaner air, to become marathon runners, to become astronauts…whatever. Those who chose to live in the bubble will do whatever living in a bubble allows you to do.
Similarly, as long as we are human there will be prejudice. Sin ain’t leavin’ this planet until Jesus returns…and depending on your beliefs on eschatology…not even then…so expecting (for lack of a better term) for the playing field to be evened is futile. It is impossible to do with fallible human beings. Since there is no other type of human being–it is not possible.
The Bible doesn’t advocate or promise the possibility of “fairness” or “equality” in the eyes of man or through man’s institutions. In fact, the Bible specifically promises that man, in general, and followers of Christ, specifically, WILL have tribulation. PERIOD.
Should Christians show favoritism towards class, race, etc. No…the Bible specifically says we’re not to do that. Will Christians do that at times? Yes…we still have a sin nature…we still sin…that’s why we need Jesus. If Christians are going to mess up…how much worse are the ungodly or pagan going to mess up without Jesus and the Holy Spirit?
As LaShawn stated, no one is going to get a free pass from anything. God will judge each human being in the end. The Bible says that God will bring ultimate justice–not the government or the NAACP.
2. Everyone has some cross to bear, some albatross around their neck, etc. SKin color, weight, ethnicity, gender, abuse, neglect, trauma…we all endured something for some reason. As Andy earlier stated, “how about simply taking life as it’s handed to you and making the best of it?”
Some people will choose to focus more on their cross or albatross; others will choose to focus on how they can achieve their goals despite their cross or albatross. That is an individual choice–it cannot be made for someone else.
3. God does not provide each person with identical skills, strengths, motivations, circumstances or burdens. That means there can NEVER be a “level playing field” from man’s point of view because God did not design humans that way in the first place then sin entered the world.
So we may not all get the same tool, proper tool, best tool, unbroken tool, any tool to dig a hole (to use the analogy). But if God wants us to dig a hole, then the hole can be dug.
4. Unless we are overtaken by a socialist form of government, we will NEVER have equal outcomes…which often is what is implied by various statistics as evidence of bias or racism. Everyone who went to my elementary school did not end up in the same place. Everyone from my high school did not end up in the same place. Everyone from my Ivy League university did not end up at the same place. At some point in life, we all “started” with others in a cohort. We did not all end up together. That doesn’t prove racism. All the females didn’t end up together. All the blacks didn’t end up together.
By many indicators we are doing worse now than a couple generations ago…when we were less removed from slavery and much more openly and acceptably discriminated against. Our community used to use those things as motivation–to encourage their kids to do well in school, to value education because it was the one thing no one could take from you, etc.
What’s the excuse now? My grandparents could only dream of attending the schools their grandchildren attended, having the careers they have, achieving the socioeconomic status they have, etc.
I never saw my family sitting on its collective behind bemoaning and whining about what white people did to them while not working, going to school, etc. They may not have liked how white people treated them but they didn’t use that as an excuse to not do well in school, not go to college, not work, not take care of their kids, not pay their bills, not live within their means, etc.
Anyone who truly believes that one cannot rise above racism, must also believe–to be intellectually consistent and honest–that one cannot rise above their gender, height, weight, hair length, attractiveness, any illness/deficit/disability, etc.
I think many who, I suppose, have “mistakenly” believed that they were rising above would take great offense at such hubris.
Peace
Ok Dell, here we go:
Ref your ##32: “Andy – I suggest that if your father believes this is the mission God burdened him with, then he is to do to pray about it, create a compelling argument as to why that is a necessary mission field, and allow God to aid him in correcting the discrimination within the church and within the culture.”
Simply put, while my dad was praying about what to do next, a Hearing sister in church mentioned that there were Missons for the Blind, for the Crippled and so on, why not one for the Deaf. The rest is history…
“ Your analogy, or reality if it is true, bolster my argument as opposed to minimizing it.”
http://www.cmdeaf.org
With regards to your points 1-3; I’m picking up to many negative vibes, man.
As for point 4, see my #73
“… Why did you Father not simply say, “those deaf Africans need to stop complaining about being deaf and being the victims of a culture that thinks they are demon possessed and pull themselves up by their boot straps? …”
Kinda hard to complain when you don’t know what you’re missing. Of all the handicaps, Deafness is THE most debilitating, because you are cut off from other people. If you can not communicate, you can not share abstract concepts like love, God, sin, salvation, E=MC2. Without a language, you are indeed a superfluous appendage to society.
As for demon possesion, I don’t think the average white boy/girl think of other races as demons, possed or outcasts, unlike certain islamics and/or blacks who preach it every Friday, Saturday or Sunday depending on their flavor.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew (Black) and the Greek (White — color doesn’t matter): for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And most defining: Mat 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
Better check that again; the poor have the gospel preached to them. . Nope, don’t see anything about social justice, wealth, jobs, payback, reparations or any of that psychobabble junk, just sood olf fashion Bible preaching.
As for discrimination/obstacles, Raymond touched on it with his 6 options for dealing with a closed door. Except I hold an open-door philosophy, which would be to reflect on whether or not God closed that door for a reason. The problem I have with your “racism is the cause” obsession is that it desensitizes one to that small still Voice. How can you be in God’s will if you’re charging around trying to bash your way thru any and every obstacles? If your 1st reaction is to see racism, then you have effectively blinded yourself to God standing in your way.
Balaam and his ass (Num 22), Jonah and the vine (Jonah 4) & “[H]aving eyes, see ye not?” comes readily to mind.
Ok, maybe that’s not what you’re doing, but that’s the message you’re preaching. To my way of thinking, it seems like you’re trying to put the cart before the horse — as in “[B]ut claim ye first your righteousness; and all these things that should be added unto you, and oh BTW, you might want to seek the kingdom of God afterwards.“
Dell #3: “If you acknowledge that racism has a cost, which you do and have done, and you acknowledge that it must be risen above, then logically you have to also acknowledge that racism causes disparity in some form or fashion.”
Let me rephrase that: if you acknowledge that following Christ has a cost and you acknowledge that our Father would never put us in a situation beyond what we can handle, then logically you have to also acknowledge that our discipleship causes disparity in some form or fashion. To wit, we must assume that relatively speaking, we are ‘WIMPS’ compared to our brothers and sisters in truly oppressive regimes, such as China, USSR, Islamic republics, Zimbabwe, to name a few.
I’ve seen several comments claiming systemic/institutional oppression, Brother, I’m here to tell you we ain’t got no Man holding us down like what’s going on in those areas I just mentioned. Fortunately, we can cling to Jesus’ words: Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you..
Which leads me to your next statement.
“We can discuss the failure of the welfare system, and the need to for certain blacks to take more individual responsibility and be more self-determined, and in that I agree 100%. But to simultaneously disregard racism as a variable that creates disparity, and something that needs to be destroyed or correct simultaneously must be address.
But I have to point out again. the only liberation Jesus offers us is from sin, not Da Man or a pack of good ole boys. I’ll grant you that there are two types of racism at work here in America. 1) The soft bigotry of low expectations wielded by our so-called elites, ie education. The only way to fix that is to take back local control of our institutions and to be diligent about protecting (conserving) our societal standards, otherwise, we deserve the gubmint we get. 2) The racism wielded by the race-baiting posse, ie Jesse Jackson, NAACP. Channeling MLK, I’m not fearing any ‘whitey’, because their kind of racism, though sometimes tangible, is really more of an inconvenience to be navigated around, or even just flat out ignored.
“…in auto racing to improve speed you do two things, increase the power of the vehicle so that it moves faster (IE self determined behavior, and a go getter mentality) and you also can make the vehicle more aerodynamically sound to reduce drag, (not To Wong Fu
but air resistance) and thus enable the engine to produce more speed with the same out put (IE eliminate racism and other barriers). Both must occur for blacks.”
Hi-speed/Lo-drag, now you’re talking on my wavelength.
Except I would equate hi-speed with a desire for education & knowledge and lo-drag with a solid faith that leads to God-given wisdom. Both must occur for anyone. Afterall, all that knowldge & wisdom matters not a whit if one loses his soul. Uncle Tom’s testimony comes to mind — a child-like faith that steadied him in the worst that life and fellow man could throw at him.
Dell #13: “Andy, define victim for me, because loaded language quite frankly disgust me and that is what all of these pigeonholed terminologies do. They thwart effective discussion.”
“Victim” American-style has been debunked by others posting here for the hypochondria that it is, and I’d only add that tis a cakewalk compared to physical suffering in Sudan, Zimbabwe & N Korea. It could be used to describe the economic suffering as experienced in Nigeria as Da Man, who is black, exploits and robs the people such that over 400 BILLON USD has disappeared over the years even tho the GDP is only 125 billion USD annually. If it’s true that the money disappeared over 20 years, we’re talking in the neighborhood of 16% of 2.5 trillion USD. Don’t know of too many, if any, that are systematically being robbed of that much here in the good ole US of A, unless we’re talking education and other il-liberal pet projects.
“Here is the point, no where in the bible does God say the poor should be happy about being poor, although he did acknowledge as a matter of fact that the poor will be with ‘us’ always. But throughout the bible the ability to remove the poor from the circumstance of being poor is acknowledged as ‘righteous’ behavior. So the righteous acknowledge and enable the poor to alleviate the situation. That is bible basics.
Glad to know that it’s Bible basics. I must confess that I must have long forgotten those particular passages -cold-hearted I; so that means you’ll provide me references for each on your next response?
“… acknowledge the duality between personal responsibility and social accountability throughout the whole bible.”
Huh?? Citation please.
“The removal of twelve rocks from the river Jordan to the other side as a reminder to the generations of Gods plan so they didn’t ‘forget’ God. Cause and effect.
Huh?? If you’re referring to Joshua 4, that was so [T]hat all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God forever. Not really seeing the relevancy here, but then again, I didn’t study it from the nexus of culture and environment on personal behavior perspective. All I know is where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst and that the only way to be saved is to repent — no if, ands nor buts.
“My point is that you can not seperate individual behavior from environmental factors that influence (but not necessarily ultimately determine) that behavior. That is why I wrote the article ‘Passive Racism: Over Emphasis on Personal Responsibility’ http://www.dellgines.com/?p=29.”
IIRC, Jesus didn’t care about factors causing one to sin. He simply said go and sin no more to the adultress. To the Samarian woman, he called her on her 5 husbands and to drink the water of life. To Nicodemus; get on out of that tree and pay the people back. To others; get up and follow me. Don’t recall any Oprah/Dr. Phil couch sessions discussing what a rough life one had.
“we must be a certain as possible that our ‘poliical’ positions are being influenced by the truth of the bible and not vice-versa. Wouldn’t you agree?”
Yes, are we talking about the same Bible?
Finally, in relation to this statement:
“Since I have been 16 I have been working with people who I am ‘trying to help’ and have seen results. Shouldn’t I be the one more qualified at examining what is holding us down?”
I recall calling you a young whippersnapper.
When you say ‘trying to help’, do you mean being a vassal for God to do His work or Matt 7:21-22 & Eph 2:9? Perhaps less trying and more doing by letting God pick up the ’slack’. Word of friendly advice, I get the impression that you’re trying too hard & working too much, you might wind up alienating your kids and/or wife.
Dell ##24:… if Andy has spent a significant amount of time working with poor black people spiritually, educationally, and economically, and having the positive results I have had…”
I haven’t, I don’t and don’t think I will spend a significant amount of time doing so. I’ve got a family to raise. That’s not to say I’ll turn my back on anyone, just that I’m not going out of my way in this phase of my life. However, I’ll admit to getting some vicarious satisfaction out of the work of others.
“In addition, I believe in the diversity of the body of Christ, and do not believe I have the only way. God provides different gifts for different purposes but as evangelicals we are all subject to the usage of them in light of the scripture. So if you think I am using the scripture wrong I am always open to correction – II Tim 3:16.”
Concur. Amen. We do provide correction as warranted.
“At the end of the day, my hope for folks like Andy, and myself, who claim evangelicalism, is that our primary motivations and actions are based in the foundation of loving our neighorbors, and that this is manifested even in our disagreements on public policy and the issue of race.”
As long as we’re talking tough love.
Give it up for PurpleMD. You go Doc!
I think I want to marry Andy or Raymond!
I’m flattered.
A buddy of mine was in the Navy and said when he was in port in Africa that the native people there spoke better english than most from America. In fact they spoke the King’s English, not the English we speak in the states. I never understood the talk of minorities testing worse on the tests because they were written for whites. Everyone has to learn the same thing in school. I’m here to tell ya people, just because it was taught to me and I’m white doesn’t mean I wanted to learn it or it was any easier. I wasn’t born with the knowledge, I had to listen and learn just like everyone else. I’m from Louisiana and I wanted to skip school and be at the pond fishin’ just like every other kid I knew! BUT, there’s always one of those in there, my parents took turns weekly and sat down with me to go over my homework every night. My mother worked the 11PM -7AM shift at the emergency room at Bossier general hospital and my dad was a scocial worker for the welfare dept in Shreveport, La. They found the time and energy to make sure I was brought up with their values which I have to this day. I could talk for days on the subject of people not taking resoponsibility for their children and how the government has let them run wild, ie. let them be kids, but that is for another time. All I can say is go to any other country and the black kids there with speak French, Itailian, Spanish very well. Come to the states and…….well, you hear it every day. Heck I’m here in DC now and no one would be able to tell I’m from the South by the way I speak. I’m not the person to throw stones here but have some pride, be somebody, speak correctly!
Several of you on this blog have spoken of segregation as an indication of sheer racism on the part of whites. I have many university professors who are friends. They say that black students self segregate more than any other students on campus. They are helped in this by having so many institutions for blacks only, something which would never be permitted for whites. Some universities have even started having seperate graduation ceremonies just for their black students, so that they can have a more intimate and meaningful experience, and feel more nurtured. Meanwhile, the white students may be a number among thousands and no one cares. My oldest three kids did not even go to their graduations because they had to work, and did not want to stand in line for hours being a number. These special privileges that are popping up everywhere are so divisive. Many anthroplogists say that it is actually natural for people to want to be with ‘their own kind’. Personally, I find this notion repugnant! I also find it repugnant that there are so many institutions and functions for ‘Blacks Only’, and I think it is obvious that these are counterproductive to an integrative society. Either we are all one big family or we aren’t, but you can’t have it both ways.
Secondly,in the neighborhood that I am now living in, which is poor,largely Hispanic and black, I am treated to a daily barrage of hostility, as I said earlier. This was totally unexpected. As well, it is a high crime area. Both of these are reasons why people move out of such areas. Who wants to wait until things deteriorate or something really bad happens? We have already been broken into and robbed. My next door neighbors are elderly, lived here for thirty years,remember it when it was very beautiful, and are devastated by what they see. Trash is thrown everywhere, drug paraphenalia is on the side of the road and in our yards, kids cruise up and down the streets with music blaring at four in the morning, etc.. No matter how unpleasant it is to look at, the crime statistics are what they are. When I first learned that blacks commit 90% of all violent crime between blacks and whites, I was stunned, shocked, disbelieving, and horrified. How could such a small group of people commit such a high proportion of the crime between us? I contacted the FBI, received thousands of pages of documents, and the reality is shocking. Most of the time, these details are not found in newspapers because of political correctness, though if a white person commits an interracial crime that is thought to be hate related, it is all over the newpapers’ front pages. Therein lies a huge problem, because the truth is distorted, and everyone is allowed to believe a lie. Larry Elder wrote a book about the ten things you can’t say in America in his book ‘Showdown’. He talks about this issue, and is not afraid of the truth.
I desperately want an integrated society. My children are married or engaged to minorities, and I come from a bi-racial family. But, trust me when I say that integration is a two way street, and if you don’t like segregation, start protesting the segregation that goes on legally all over our society. It is divisive, and sets people apart.
Hipstreet,
Read a real account of the Black Panthers. The reason they were targeted by police is because they were murdering terrorists. Read how Alex Rackley was burned with cigarettes, had boiling water poured over him, stabbed with ice picks, endured blunt force trauma, then shot in the head twice. Read about the murder of Betty Van Patter, and all of the other murders the Panthers committed in the name of ‘doing good’. Bobby Seale and Eldridge Cleaver have made stunning confessions of much of this. So, of course the police and the FBI would be ‘interested’ in them.
Secondly, when a black person says that white people are evil, as Farrakhan and his ilk frequently do, they don’t have to assert racial superiority. The presumption is there, and we can all dance around it however much we want to do so. Naturally, if white man is evil or degraded in so many ways, then black man has to be superior. They are simply savvy enough politicians to stop before they actually say it in so many words, (though they frequently say disgusting things about people of the Jewish faith.) So, I simply do not buy that they don’t feel they are superior.
If you are going to have racial dialogue, keep it real. As far as Detroit goes, maybe your friends saw the writing on the wall, because that city is in dire trouble. Recently, I was listening to the mayor of Detroit actually saying denigrating things about the Orientals in the city while on national TV. The mayor was saying that Detroit should be declared a “Black City’. Most of us simply don’t want to be subjected to that kind of hatred and anger. That’s all. There are some really really racist whites, but most white people tell consider a white person who even tries to use the N word a total jerk and won’t associate with them. However, the way things are going now, I am afraid that we will head backwards, because of racial set asides and preferences, and the non stop blame game. By the way, when my daughter saw the guy reading the diatribe about how horrible white people are, we were all wondering where we would even find something like that in reverse. None of us could even imagine. However, I can walk down any urban street, and get a newspaper for blacks and read stuff like that. Why is that? I can’t think of anything more sad.
One last thought. One day, I was watching Wangari Mathaai on C-SPAN. She won this year’s Nobel Peace Price. She declared that white men had created AIDS on purpose to destroy black men and commit genocide. I have no idea why she would get any kind of a peace prize, as that type of hate sets peace back by a great deal. I have three relatives with AIDS, and hearing garbage like that does nothing to bring us together. Besides, it is scientifically utterly ignorant. As I said, we have to search for truth!
White people can’t fight racism by themselves, no matter how much everyone thinks that they can. Most of us try really really hard. But, we are growing weary, as it seems like no matter what we do, it will never be enough. Our hearts are heavy, and I just thank God that there are people who understand, like so many of you who write into this blog.
Story on Yahoo News via Drudge Report.
‘Ghetto Talent Show,’ Watermelon Eating Contest Outrages Community
Need I say more?
jan, don’t forget about the REAL reason the silly cult celebration kwanzaa was created.
PurpleMD: I’m impressed–you went to an Ivy League uni but haven’t been brainwashed.
Raymond;
I’ve read a lot about Kwanzaa, but I was wondering what you meant. I’d love to know your thoughts.
Read all about it here, Jan:
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2004/12/18/kwanzaa/
Kwanzaa is a joke created by a sick, twisted, racist, violent, convicted felon. It is a separatist celebration of hate disguised as an uplifting African family ritua. It is a confusing cacaphony of quasi-African mumbo jumbo designed to create a separation of the Black man and his family from the “evil white” celebration of Christmas.
Dr. Karenga is a man convicted of kidnapping and imprisoning a woman and torturing her with hot pokers and electrical wires is now a professor at USC (I think) in surprise surprise…Cali-wacky-fornia. Why should anyone listen to his ideas on race an culture. This man was filled with hate when he created kwanzaa and is still filled with a deep seated hate for the American government and white people.
I fact, the Symbionese Liberation Army adopted the same exact socio-communist kwanzaa tenets as the meanings behind their seven headed cobra logo. As we know, the SLA of Patty Hearst fame was a rag tag bunch of American terrorists.
People who celebrate kwanzaa don’t know the history behind it or its evil founder or they just don’t care. Sort of like how Black Democrats say nothing about the shenanigans of Ku Klux Klan member Sen. Robert Byrd. Just las week, Byrd compared inner city Black areas to “the jungles of Africa.” Not a word from our so-called “black leadership.”
Kwanzaa is silly, irrelevant and hate inspired.
Mark Slater #97,
You make my point beautifully. Darkstar and other people who are liberals talk about conservatives or Republicans as if we were extreme. What they don’t understand is extreme is anarchy (lack of government) and libertarianism is a cut of 80% and there are a lot of people like you who would like the federal government scaled back dramatically.
Dear LaShawn and Raymond;
After hanging out with liberal professors who embrace Kwanzaa under the religion of multiculturalism, hearing our ecumenical council of churches celebrate Kwanzaa as a faith of beauty, seeing my granddaughter taught all about it in her public school (the false version, that is) while being denied any expression of her Christian/Catholic faith,you cannot imagine what a balm to my soul it is to hear both of you speak with the voice of sanity. Hat’s off to both of you…….and smilin’ all the way.
Backatcha Jan
You may want to try the slow approach with respect to educating people on the real roots of kwanzaa. The more ignorant and less educated of our brethren will attack you.
But, even if they resist at first, they will think twice about embracing something with such a sordid origin.
I have found that the first reaction black people disply is one of “how dare you attack my blackness” but a sane, slow verifiable argument goes a long way in getting people to be uncomfortable with the status quo thus dropping a belief that they must honor Karenga and his lunacy.
Black people have been trained by the Black left leadership for so long to be culturally lazy and accepting of anything “Black” that we’ll take anyone’s word for it that all things Black are good. We know this is not the case. “Keeping it real” if you will?
I am a member of a large, national, Black organization and the local chapter of which I am a member tried to make kwanzaa the theme for our signature fundraising event. I nipped that in the bud quickly! No one wants to put on a black tie and come listen to thinly veiled hate as we ask for their donations.
One last thing. Please do not fall for that argument that “that may have been what kwanzaa WAS, but that is not what it is now” BS argument.
Just because Hallmark makes a card for it does not make it legit. I am sure Hallmark now makes cards for gay “marriages” as well.
Jan, I’m up here in Detroit and it’s a safe bet to say that thug son of a State congresswoman is about to be run out of office this Fall. If Detroit wasn’t such a ‘black’ city, he would have already been tarred & feathered.
But wouldn’t you know it, everytime there’s another scandal, he trots out there and holds up the race card. What a hip-hop gangsta punk. I think Detroit learned a lesson about elevating a loud-mouth kid simply for his looks and cred.
to Jan brauner;
Excuse me… I am well versed on the history of the Panther Party. As YOU said, you need to “search for the truth.” Some people take the liberty of distorting the facts and the truth. They discard it as if it were so much trash. You will never find the truth if you’re looking through garbage.
Fact: Alex Rackley was murdered because he was believed to be a government informant. (I would never condone torture or murder)
Yet, the FBI had “bugged” the New Haven, CT. headquarters of the Panthers and produced tapes of the torture/interrogation at the trial. Question: Why did’nt the Feds make an effort to prevent the murder? Was he an informant that was expendable? Or was he merely mistaken and expendable. Either way the Feds saw him as expendable.
Fiction:It was because of the murders of Rackley and Van Patter the Feds began to investigate the Panthers.
Warren Kimbro, who was reported to be the alleged shooter/killer in the Rackley case, plea bargined to a 2nd degree murder charge. Seale and Erika Huggins had their cases dismissed.
Fact: In the early 60’s, about the time that Seale and Newton began the organization on the campus of Merrit College, the feds began a program called COINTELPRO. (Counter Intelligence Program). By 1968 it’s mission was to “thwart and disrupt” the activities of the Panther organization. (per released Federal documents, look them up for yourself, they’re on the net.)
Secondly, where did you get information that says that Seale “confessed” to being directly or indirectly involved in any murder? If you have any such information or quotes from Seale where he implicates himself in those murders please post the source for my review.
As for Eldridge Cleaver netheir you nor I could ever speculate what went on in his mind. The mans’ brain was on fire (pun intended). From a radical to an admitted rapist, a Moonie to a Christian, a Communist then a Republican and eventually a crack addict. Who knows what he might have said.
You also said that you recently heard the Mayor of Detroit “saying denigrating things about the Orientals in the city while on national TV.” Again, post the info, transcipt or news article. I work in a high school that has a fast growing Oriental (Hmong) population. I’m sure they would be interested in such comments.
Lastly, if you presume that referring to someone or something as evil equates to a sence of superiority you are mistaken. Remember the defintion of racist. A racist believes his race is superior to all others. The devil is evil, do you think that you are his superior? Are you superior to the radical islamist? When you call them evil are you just being racist? How about I agree with you and your theory, you can call me evil and I’ll call you a RACIST. Just don’t call me a RACIST.
I consider myself to be an American. I also like the ring of African American, because Africa is always portrayed negatively. It is like when blacks were ashamed to be called black. “I’m not black,” they would say. Until the 60s.
American, African American, black are all okay with me. I believe that LaShaun will not link us though because our name has African American in it (African American Environmentalist Association). I mean I could have called it the American Environmentalist Association, but we need blacks to recognize it quickly because we are not a household name. Or we could have used Black Environmentalist Association but it didn’t look or sound as interesting. We also have a completely nonracial mother organization site: the Center for Environment, Commerce & Energy. That is where we address environmental issues without the race component. That is also why I felt so good about also creating and advertising the race site.
I was unaware that you had a blog, Norris.
I don’t avoid people or things using the term African American. I just don’t like it personally, but that’s just me. There are plenty of organizations with African American in the name. The trend didn’t develop overnight, and it won’t disappear overnight.
By the way, how is it that you can complain about not being on the roll and at the same time, misspell my name even though you’re a long-time visitor whose had to notice my name in giant letters in the header and at the end of posts?
By the way, are you a conservative, moderate, or what? My blogroll is divided into categories.
Hipstree, interesting that you ask for something nigh impossible regarding the Thug of Detroit. Getting transcripts on the darlings of the liberal media is akin to looking for a needle in a haystack.
I wouldn’t worry on behalf of the Hmong, I’m sure their internel network is on to him. In your case, I’m sure google will turn up plenty of reason why KK is unfit to serve. In any case, KK is just a couple of months from riding off into the sunset and we Detroiters can be spared the almost daily embarassments.
Finally, you misconstrued Jan’s statements and top it off by calling her a racists?
I’m pretty sure as can, be that if she’s a racist, then you must be a bigger one.
Because typically these days, the one ready to hurl the racist charge at the drop of a hat are usually projections.
Jan writes:
>>>White people can’t fight racism by themselves, no matter how much everyone thinks that they can. Most of us try really really hard. But, we are growing weary, as it seems like no matter what we do, it will never be enough. Our hearts are heavy, and I just thank God that there are people who understand, like so many of you who write into this blog.”
Now, this is precisely what I’m talking about. Your intentions seem to be in the right place. I simply disagree with your evaluation of what America really is. Be not confused. I don’t care how much Affirmative Action, Head Start, set asides, hot lunch programs, meals on wheels, Black History Months, Miss Black America Pagents, Kwanzaa celebrations, and UPN Sitcoms you want to talk about…the fact remains that white men have and continue to CONTROL this nation’s WEALTH, RESOURCES, and GOVERNMENT LEADERSHIP. I don’t say this because I “dislike all white males,” but let’s get some perspective in order here. The first African slaves hit America’s shores around 1612 or so. Slavery didn’t officially end until TWO AND A HALF CENTURIES LATER. White men were in control for that whole period. African Americans didn’t see the Civil Rights Act until 1964…almost TWO CENTURIES after the Declaration of Independece was written (albeit by a white slave owner) that proclaimed “All men are created equal.” These white men weren’t concerned with “fighting racism.”
We have Conservative white men TODAY like William F. Buckley and Chief Justice Reinquist who think that the CRA of 1964 was “bad law.” This doesn’t show me interest on their part to “fight racism.”
We live now in 2005 America, where housing segregation is so rampant we get reports like these:
>>>”NFHA’s complaint is based on evidence obtained through a two-year real estate testing program. According to NFHA, based on their race alone, black testers posing as home buyers were steered away from white neighborhoods, while white testers were discouraged from seeing or buying homes in integrated and predominantly black neighborhoods…
…The 2005 Trends Report recounts a “crisis” of housing segregation in the nation, and a concomitant decline in funding for, and commitment to, fair housing enforcement. The report is based on 2004 housing discrimination complaint data compiled from NFHA member agencies, the U.S Department of Housing and Urban Development, the U.S. Department of Justice, and state and local government agencies.”
This doesn’t look to me like realtors are “fighting racism.”
You suggest that I read Thomas Sowell’s work. I really don’t see the need to support Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Stanley Crouch, Shelby Steele, James McWhorter or any host of similiar writers. They get more than enough support from white conservative publishers. They aren’t missing any meals telling the people who sign their checks everything they want to hear.
I would rather read reports from Devah Pager, whose research discovered that white men with felony convictions have a better chance at employment than black men with no criminal record.
http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=6&aid=51561
Nobody responded to this DATA when I brought it up the first time here. I doubt seriously anybody will respond to it now. It’s simply NOT what most posters to this blog want to hear. That’s why there is such popularity for “Professional Black Conservatives.” People want to feel good about themselves, and PBC’s do their best to shift ALL responsibility onto African Americans.
Fortunately, I’m not that kind of guy.
I’m not going to shill for an agenda that would profile me the moment I’m out of earshot.
http://www.thecobraslair.com/images/yeah-right-awards-STREAM.gif
That doesn’t mean I don’t have friends of all races I love and would bleed for. It just means I’ll gladly sacrifice temporary monetary gain for my spiritual sense of righteousness.
–Cobra
Andy,
Have you been reading or listening to the rantings of Leo Terrel and Julianne Malveaux? And you thought Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton were awful. Leo Terrel needs true anger management intervention.
As far as racists are concerned, he is in there with Robert Byrd, Julianne and Nancy Grace. Psychotic and hysterical are understatements when describing these loons.
According to cobra:
“We live now in 2005 America, where housing segregation is so rampant we get reports like these:
â€NFHA’s complaint is based on evidence obtained through a two-year real estate testing program. According to NFHA, based on their race alone, black testers posing as home buyers were steered away from white neighborhoods, while white testers were discouraged from seeing or buying homes in integrated and predominantly black neighborhoods…”
I must be the token black in the entire US who was able to slip through and get a house in a so called “white neighborhood” (Wait a minute…Wow… where did those other blacks down the street come from…according to NFHA they shouldn’t be here…they must have painted their skin)…
the point is NFHA did their testing to get the results and complaints they wanted in TARGETTED areas … (your comment and quoting them makes it sound like it is going on all over the place)…
it sounds almost like the reports of blatant voter suppression by Dean and Jesse a few months ago…(gimme me a break please)
show me a report where EVERY black person in America is surveyed when they try to buy a house and then come back with the results (now I am in no way saying it never happens, just that you assume that it is some gross thing happening to every black person in America in every community in America so that means there is rampnay racism by white people…
PLAAAAEEEEESSSEEEE
Headlines from the year 2029
Ozone created by electric cars now killing millions in the seventh largest country in the world, Mexifornia formally known as California. White minorities still trying to have English recognized as Mexifornia’s third language.
Spotted Owl plague threatens northwestern United States crops and livestock.
Baby conceived naturally! Scientists stumped!
Couple petitions court to reinstate heterosexual marriage.
Last remaining Fundamentalist Muslim dies in the American Territory of the Middle East (formerly known as Iran, Afghanistan, Syria and Lebanon).
Iraq still closed off; physicists estimate it will be at least ten more years before radioactivity decreases to safe levels.
France pleads for global help after being taken over by Jamaica.
Castro finally dies at age 112; Cuban cigars can now be imported legally, but President Chelsea Clinton has banned all smoking.
George Z. Bush says he will run for President in 2036.
Postal Service raises price of first class stamp to $17.89 and reduces weekly mail delivery to Wednesday only.
85-year, $75.8 billion study: Diet and Exercise is the key to weight loss.
Average weight of Americans drops to 250 lbs.
Japanese scientists have created a camera with a shutter speed so fast, they now can photograph a woman with her mouth shut.
Massachusetts executes last remaining conservative.
Supreme Court rules punishment of criminals violates their civil rights.
Average height of NBA players now nine feet, seven inches.
New federal law requires that all nail clippers, screwdrivers, fly swatters and rolled-up newspapers must be registered by January 2036.
Congress authorizes direct deposit of previously illegal political contributions to campaign accounts.
IRS sets lowest tax rate at 75 percent.
Florida voters still having trouble with voting machines
#129. Not my creation. Author unknown.
This is my favorite:
Japanese scientists have created a camera with a shutter speed so fast, they now can photograph a woman with her mouth shut.
Now that would be a MIRACLE!!!! LOL
1) Would you want a) any federal money spent on stem cells b) federal money spent on stem cells as Bush proposed c) more federal money spent on stem cells than Bush proposed d) other-explain
No opinion. I’ve read about stem cells but don’t know enough to make an informed opinion. Stem cells exist in umbilical cords so I don’t understand why people keep mentioning aborted babies.
2) Would you want a) A Prop 209 like initiative or law passed in every state b) some Prop 209 pieces passed but exclusions for either Universities or Contracting c) status quo with respect to “affirmative action†d) other-explain
Status quo.
3) Would you want tax rates a) raised generally b) raised on rich people c) kept the same as now d) other-explain
Flat tax of no more than 10%. No VAT. VATs succomb to tax loop holes.
4) Would you vote for a school voucher program that gives a) a $4,000 voucher to a parent to the school of their choice b) $2,000 to a parent to the school of their choice c) $2,000 to a school (not parent) that the parent picks from a pre-approved list of schools d) no vouchers e) other-explain.
Vouchers. The amount depends on the average cost of private schools in the area where the perosn lives.
Darkstar and other people who are liberals
Yawn
Black people have been trained by the Black left leadership for so long to be culturally lazy and accepting of anything “Black†that we’ll take anyone’s word for it that all things Black are good.
Yawn.
Easily disproved by comments by Black business owners who say Blacks don’t support Black business. Or the fact that most Blacks don’t practice Kwanzaa. Or the fact that the NAACP isn’t supported by Blacks but business interests.
But, hey, stopping to think about things for a bit vs. mudslinging and/or throwing out red meat is always easier, eh?
Renee writes:
>>>
The point is NFHA did their testing to get the results and complaints they wanted in TARGETED areas … (your comment and quoting them makes it sound like it is going on all over the place)…
it sounds almost like the reports of blatant voter suppression by Dean and Jesse a few months ago…(gimme me a break please)…show me a report where EVERY black person in America is surveyed when they try to buy a house and then come back with the results (now I am in no way saying it never happens, just that you assume that it is some gross thing happening to every black person in America in every community in America so that means there is rampnay racism by white people…
PLAAAAEEEEESSSEEEE ”
First of all, I’m happy for you. You had a pleasant experience in purchasing a home. I’m sure, from the gist of your commentary, you were treated superbly, guided to the house and neighborhood of your choosing, and given the absolute lowest interest rate possible. Congratulations!
That being said, it would not out of line for me to follow that statement by posting study after study about Housing Discrimination and Predatory Lending addressed by the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and the Department of Justice. Last time I checked, those two departments are under the control of the BUSH ADMINISTRATION, so if there is any bias towards having negative reports, you would have to be condemning Dubya. That in and of itself would be a treat!
As an African American man, I can’t say I share your apparently rosy, racism-free experiences regarding housing. I also realize that my personal annecdotes don’t really amount to much here, as EVERYBODY has a story to tell. That’s why I like to dwell on facts, research, direct quotes and statistics. Take for example, your throwaway line about black voter suppression. I mean, it’s not enough that in a nation that has only RECENTLY struck down poll taxes, literacy tests, grandfather clauses and voter intimidation by local police (Remember the Voting Rights Act of 1965 that our dear friends Reagan and Reinquist fought so vehemently against?) It’s not enough that we still have to this day, politicians stating on the record that there is a need to stifle black voters:
>>>
“If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we’re going to have a tough time in this election cycle.”
– State Rep. John Pappageorge, R-Troy, while discussing election strategy at a meeting of the Oakland County Republican Party
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:IBJ2C353XIYJ:www.freep.com/voices/columnists/eholl27_20040727.htm+Pappageorge,+voter+suppression&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Now, if I have to explain to you the voter demographics of Detroit, MI…well. But that’s not enough for me. You seemingly mock claims of black voter suppression in recent elections. You couldn’t possibly be talking about the Bush/Hood machine scrubbing of black voters through false felon purges in Florida in 2004, could you? Hey, with the media the way it is, in the pockets of corporate interests, I’m sure there were more pressing matters, so here’s the actual LIST of SCRUBBED VOTERS, courtesy of the People For the American Way. I posted this on “Discriminations” back in August.
>>>
This first link is the ACTUAL LIST ordered by Bush/Hood. It is only availible because of the lawsuit by the media, and I hope you have broadband if you decided to look at the PDF files. When you do look at them, you will notice how COMMON the names are.
http://www.pfaw.org/go/purge
The second link is the explanation by the State of Florida as to why you might have your voting rights removed.
“You may have been disqualified from voting by mistake because:
1. Your name and identifying information are the same or nearly the same as a convicted felon;
2. You have a felony conviction but have had your right to vote restored;
3. You had a felony arrest but the charge was reduced to a misdemeanor by the court;
4. You have a felony arrest but it did not result in a conviction; or
5. You had an arrest or a conviction, but it was not for a felony offense. ”
http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/voterinfo/felony_convictions.html
According to this website, a person can have their civil rights stripped from them for simply SHARING THE SAME NAME. How many of the 47,000+ names on the list do you recognize as people you know? How many “Johnsons”, “Williams”, or “Smiths?”
Now, there are many who say…who cares? Just go down to the polls and straighten it out, right? Wrong! You must go to Florida Law Enforcement to be finger printed (at whatever cost they deem fit to charge you) and prove you’re NOT the felon they think you are, and THEN get the approved fingerprint report from the Law enforcement office to the Supervisors of Elections Department for review. By the way, they happen to meet QUARTERLY, and handle only 55 applications per meeting.
COUPLE THIS WITH THE FACT, that Greg Palast discovered that NONE of the people on the list in 2000 were notified by phone (he has the phone records) prior to Election Day that their names had been scrubbed from the voting rolls, what you had was a situation where people walked into the polls, found out they couldn’t vote, and had no way to REGAIN that voting status that same day.
NOW….
The LIST, as you can see for itself, has only 61 Hispanic surnames on it. That is STUPEFYING in the face of the Florida Crime statistics on Hispanics. Why, 11% of the Florida Prison population is HISPANIC.
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:RGgWSgvVEFwJ:www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2004/07/more_fla_democr.php++Florida+Prison+population,+Hispanics&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
It gets more FIENDISH. Back after the 2000 Election, this under oath testimony was taken:
>>>
On 17 April 2001, James Lee testified, before the McKinney panel, that the state had given DBT the directive to add to the purge list people who matched at least 90 percent of a last name. DBT objected, knowing that this would produce a huge number of false positives (non-felons)…
..Lee went on saying that the state then ordered DBT to shift to an even lower threshold of 80% match, allowing also names to be reversed (thus a person named Thomas Clarence could be taken to be the same as Clarence Thomas). Besides this, middle initials were skipped, Jr. and Sr. suffixes dropped, and some nicknames and aliases were added to puff up the list.
“DBT told state officials”, testified Lee, “that the rules for creating the [purge] list would mean a significant number of people who were not deceased, not registered in more than one county, or not a felon, would be included on the list. DBT made suggestions to reduce the numbers of eligible voters included on the list”. According to Lee, to this suggestion the state told the company, “Forget about it”.”
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:ONoDMVqXY5cJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File+%22Jeb+Bush%22,+scrub+group&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
So unless your lying eyes deceive you, right above you is the Y2K FORMULA for suppressing the black vote, and if you have ANY doubt remaining about this, let the Palm Beach Post explain to you what the result of this technique was in the 2000 Election:
>>>
According to the Palm Beach Post, blacks accounted for 88% of those removed from the rolls, though they make up only about 11% of Florida’s voters. [2]”
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:ONoDMVqXY5cJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File+%22Jeb+Bush%22,+scrub+group&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
But hey, you may be right. There probably isn’t ANYTHING to black voter suppression claims, right? But, if I were you, I’d take a quick glance at that Felon Purge List….
You never know whose name might pop up there.
http://www.thecobraslair.com/images/7-24/BLKVOTEFL-NAT.gif
–Cobra
Raymond, I heard Leo yesterday on Saen Hannity show and that FOOL was fit to be tied talking about hunting down and suing any govt worker that dares to profile.
I rather like it when Sean brings him on the radio show that way people get to heard liberals like that in all of their racists glory. Change a few words and color and you’d be hearing KKK spokesmen vowing to inflict justice on any n*****r-lover. Same style, same rheotric, same crap.
Cobra, who or what is your authority when you claim a sense of spiritual righteousness?
If you claim God is your source, I’d like to see some references. If your source is man, then like anything else, it’s flawed. In this case, your comment is flawed beyond ridiculous.
To Andy, jan wrote,
“Secondly, when a black person says that white people are evil, as Farrakhan and his ilk frequently do, they don’t have to assert racial superiority. The presumption is there, and we can all dance around it however much we want to do so. Naturally, if white man is evil or degraded in so many ways, then black man has to be superior.”
Construe it for me then!
And bye the way, I didn’t call her a racist. I simply implied that we use her anaylogy and apply it to the pertinent and relevant matter in hand. By no means that I mean to imply that she was racist. Maybe YOU misconstrued the meaning of my statement.
Also, I didn’t vote for Kilpatrick, I believe he’s a crook and a liar. I just needed some kind of proof for the accusation.
Andy, come off the “hide the Liberal” shtick. In this day of instant around the world news reporting, high speed internet, camera phones, electronic messaging, AP, UPI and countless other organizations and methods, jan can’t come up with ONE source to back-up a story about a big city Mayor making disparaging remarks about an ethnic (voting group I might add) in his own city?
Maybe next time that Kilpatrick wastes Detroit tax dollars on personal Las Vegas trips, cars for his wife, strip parties at the Mayors mansion or firing a police detective for investigating him, he can call on that “darling of the Liberal media” network you seem to know so much about.
Hipstreet;
You said that if I presumed that ‘referring to someone or something as evil equates to a sense of superiority, then I would be wrong’. I couldn’t agree with you more! That is why I am glad that I never presumed such a stupid notion. I am even more glad that I never wrote that on this blog, nor anything to that effect.Otherwise, I would have had to be seriously embarrassed. I merely responded to a statement you had made relating to Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, The NAACP, and Luis Farrakan. In your statement, you said that you had never heard any of these individuals or groups assert racial superiority. I replied that when a black person such as Farrakan and his ilk proclaim white people are evil (note: not A person, A thing, but rather a whole race of individuals…there IS a huge difference there), then there was a presumption of superiority on the part of the speaker.Otherwise, one would have to make the ridiculous assumption that a person who has just denigrated an entire race of people, puts his race in the same denigrated position. I hardly think anything so ludicrous could be the truth. How you made the leap from my statements to your last two sentences eludes me. Your vitriol about something I never said eludes me. Maybe someone else can explain it to me.
Also, I was well aware that Alex Rackley was murdered for suspicion of being a government informant. What does that have to do with the Panthers being murderous terrorists? Again, what is your point? Are you somehow implying that ‘the government made them do the things they did? Or that the Panthers are somehow less culpable because the man they tortured and murdered was possibly a government informant? Do you think that the government had no grounds to investigate them prior to the murders of Rackley and Van Patter?
I heard the mayor of Detroit speaking on a news show on TV. The mayor said that the multitudes Asian shops had gouged the people of the city, had sucked the money from black business owners and residents. he said that, as they had already received a multitude of benefits from black patronage, it was time for blacks to get ‘theirs’ backby establishing an official black city. I don’t remember what all was said, and after awhile, I was so saddened that I got up and turned off the TV set. I’ll try googling to find comments made by the mayor.
Lastly, it’s really really late. My oldest daughter is quite ill, and eight months pregnant, so I have been helping her out today. I will try to look up any info about Seale and Cleaver tomorrow. I have it in my research files.
Hipstreet, I need to be challenged to examine what I think and why I think it. On the other hand, I simply do not accept your analysis of my comments. But, it’s stimulating to talk to you, and see another side to the equation. Hopefully, you are not too too angry, and will engage in more dialogue about these important issues.
Andy writes:
>>>If you claim God is your source, I’d like to see some references. If your source is man, then like anything else, it’s flawed. In this case, your comment is flawed beyond ridiculous.”
Nonsense. Yours is just another attempt by a conservative to “copyright” and “trademark” all forms of spirituality. I rebuke it outright. This style of bullying might work on those with guilty consciences. Put it somewhere else when you converse with me.
–Cobra
Hipstreet, if you watch ABC Channel 7, you will have seen the couple times that KK accused Steve Wilson of being a racist for harassing him. That stopped after CH 7’s anchor, who is Black flat out told him that was nonsense.
For those that don’t know the particulars; this was back when the heat was on the 1-year Navigator lease for his wife’s personal use at twice its value. This lease was the equivalent to the average salary for any number of laid-off single moms trying to raise a kid or two while clerking for the city.
I’ve looked for transcripts but have yet to come accross them. Granted, I didn’t look very hard, but I did look at the time because I wanted to archive it. Otherwise, I’d be glad to provide it to you, just as I provided Steve with a couple of tips that helped him nail KK on the search for the disappearing Navigator.
One of these days, I’ll get me a Tivo.
Serpent writes:
“Yours is just another attempt by a conservative to “copyright†and “trademark†all forms of spirituality. I rebuke it outright. This style of bullying might work on those with guilty consciences. Put it somewhere else when you converse with me.”
Poppycock. The only spirituality that guides us here is the One Source as revealed by God to us. By no means do we claim all forms of ’spirituality’.
What we will do is debate and explore scriptural meaning as it pertains to our daily life. In La Shawn’s case, where politics meets Christianity:
2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
If you want to promote the primacy new age spirituality, by all means join in on Huff-n-Puff.
If you want to promote the primacy of moonbatic spirituality, then by all means head over to DailyKos.
If you want to promote the primacy of race idolatry, then by all means head on over to Jesse Jackson’s corner.
If you want to test your views against the Scriptures, then by all means fire away and be prepared to stand the heat when found wanting:
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Your rebuke means nothing when it is wrong. Or do you claim to be a wise man? That’s why I asked for references, not your feelings:
Ecc 7:5 It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.
Your style of bullying might work in circles where it’s considered to sound ‘right’ and just feels good to foam at the mouth. Around here at LBC and other conservative christian blogs, our worldview is shaped by God’s words:
Pro 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Therefore, the proper place to put it is in your face as it were, when we converse:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Why, because all too often your views are scripturally unfounded and need to be challenged, lest anyone think that there be validity in your statements by default:
Psa 50:21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such a one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
If you feel that this somehow disses you as a deferred success and racist artist and pundit, so be it and slither away — you won’t be missed. [/Shakes off dust and serpent venom from boots and chaps, Mark 6:11]
BTW, crack open the Bible for context to the verses I gave before responding.
Darkstar #132,
#1) I can’t believe you don’t do research. You answer a question and don’t even know what to say. Don’t you even know what the constitution says. Does it prescribe the federal government spend on things like that? Seriously though. You are correct. Umbilical cords have stem cells and there have been found over 40 uses for those stem cells. Embryonic stem cells there have been 0 uses found. Private companies have been (as always) more efficient with the research and there is no need for the federal government to ALSO spend money on the research. Bush was the first to offer such federal spending and yet the mass media acts like it’s a ban. I choose answer A – no federal money spent on stem cell research. That doesn’t mean I’m against science. It means I’m just not clear why the money has to come from the federal government. Easy decision.
2) You answered status quo? How dumb. That means that in CA there is no affirmative action or preferential treatment and other states there are and that status quo is what you want. That’s ridiculous. Seriously. Preferential treatment based on race must end. Of course people who are economically or socially disadvantaged can have programs offered by the state or federal government. But those programs should be extended to ALL who are poor and economically or socially disadvantaged (as Ward says). My answer is – A) Prop 209 passed in every state.
3) Hey, I like your answer to #3. Though to raise the same amount of revenues to the U.S. Treasury people like Forbes and Dick Army put that rate at 17%. But I’d be all for 10%.
4) I agree. But there are substative differences between choices a and b and then C. I’ll always choose a and b before c. Maybe it could be proportional to the cost of education in the state on how much the voucher is you get back. For instance, since it cost over $8,000 per pupil in CA then $4,000 could be offered as the voucher and that would keep $4,000 in the public school for an absent child to strengthen not hurt the public school system as well (for those ninny nannies who decry the hurtfulness of taking away the money from public schools).
Hey. And thanks for answering. I appreciate it. And I was just kidding with the how dumb and you don’t research comments (acting like you as a reflection)
Cobra,
You talk a lot “blah, blah, blah” and spend a lot of time looking for racism wherever you can find it…
but what are you doing in the meantime?
As you sit around looking for every instance of racism you can find in print and supposedly in studies all throughout the US, what are you doing to help other blacks? Are you teaching other young black men to take responsibilities for themselves, stay in school, get a job even if it pays less than they would like so that they can learn to work in this society (as opposed to spouting off every statistic you can find to justify that there must be rampant racism by the white man everywhere in America)?
Since you made it seem as if I said racism NEVER existed and does not exist anywhere (which I did not say…you just happen to be on the racism is rampant everywhere bandwagon which amazingly has never made any group of black persons better off as a whole), it is evident you see what you want to see and will look for whatever you can to justify what your mind has already decided. Amazingly, I know quite a few neighborhoods I can go to and get the results that NHFA study got if I wanted the same results. There also neighborhoods and areas that would disprove that study. Amazingly, I’m sure we could do the same with a group of white folks and prove racism also (if we pick the right look, behavior, dress, speech, etc, to send out). Sorry but their studies and many others like them are not rocket science or any earth shattering proof that racism is rampant in America.
But again let me repeat since you don’t seem to read to well…
READ MY WORDS… this in no way means there is no racism in the US…however you need to look at what part of “our peoples” economic situation is caused or made worse by our own actions and stop looking for ways to blame whitey for everything. Racism has been with us since the beginning of time (along with every other sin) and will be with us as long as we are “fallen”, the point is, what are you doing about you, not what is the white man doing for you???
For all your complaining, I bet I could get a couple hundred thousand (more like millions) blacks from Africa to be more than willing to trade places with you and come here to put up with “racism”. Are you willing to go to the Sudan (for example) to trade places with them?
Anyway, I can only talk to brick walls for so long…time to move on :=)
Cobra;
I quote Sowell, because he is an economist who knows how to think. He is one of the few people in the world who address economis issues that are race related in an empirical fashion, not politically. For too many people, it is easy to dismiss someone like him as ‘another black conServative’ as if somehow those blacks who do not engage in ‘group think’ are less black. What an appalling notion. Does every black have to think alike, for heaven sake, for fear of being dismissed as a traitor or worse? By the way, merely pulling out a statistic here or there is essentially meaningless. Disparities are not in and of thmeselves particularly informative. CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION! Far far too often, in race related issues, the assumption is made that correlation is causation, and the result is a raft of false conclusions.
“When it first happened, I said, ‘Oh my goodness, I’ve been misunderstood,’ ” he said Tuesday. “The context of my comment was in changing voter preferences. It was not about preventing people from going to the polls.”
The 73-year-old lawmaker said he went to every Detroit legislator in the state House of Representatives and apologized. And he immediately resigned from his position in the Bush-Cheney campaign.
That hasn’t stopped Democrats from “playing the race card in a way that would help their candidate,” Pappageorge said. “Moveon.org took it one step further and accused me of being some sort of national plot, and that’s ridiculous.”
He’s received hundreds of phone calls and e-mails from friends and critics about the comment and says he now understands the explosive connotation of the word suppress. It’s been banished from his vocabulary.
“Yes, this has been a big hurt,” he said. “There was certainly no racist intent in my comment.”
So, we have a guy who tripped over his tongue, but cannot be shown to be guilty of anything more than that. No plot has been uncovered, no attempt to actuall “suppress” the vote, nothing of substance. But here comes the race card again, being tossed around by the usual suspects.
As for Florida, Cobra’s accusations are disconnected from facts. Perhaps the formula for purging felons was flawed, and perhaps those responsible even need to be fired, but to draw the conclusion that there was a deliberate attempt to specifically keep blacks from voting is not supported by any facts, only by hyperbole.
Dead on Andy. I know Sean does that to make the guy look like a fool. Shows you just how smart some lawyers really are. Leo got played, but I bet he thinks he made his case. Hysterical people like him can lose a case just by walking into the courtroom. If I am on a jury where the plaintiff is Nancy Grace, Leo Terrel, Gloria Allred or Wendy Murphy…YOU LOSE!
Missing “BLACK Laci Peterson” Ms. LaToyia Figueroa, 24 is being ignored by FOX News and the media who favors missing blonde, white women.
Kudos to CNN for making this missing Black-Hispanic woman a headline as compared to Amber-Polly-Elizabeth-Smart-Benet-Jon-Ramsey-Lunsford-Ramsey-Jessica-Klaas-Lundy-Peterson-Lacy-Eisenberg.
Kudos to Tucker Carlson of MSNBC’s “The Situation” for responding to my e-mails and making the media racial bias in covering missing children a headline.
Sorry, but I don’t know many Black children named Jessica or Amber. We have laws named after these poor girls, but sad since the laws could have easily been called “Shaniqua’s Law” or “Malik’s Law.”
Show your outrage. Write the news stations (especially FOX) and tell them that while we wish Natalee could be found, she is DEAD, but efforts should now go towards finding LaToya.
Democratic Party officials in East St. Louis have been convicted in June of massive voter fraud, such as paying for votes, sending threatening letters to election judges, etc.. What is even more astonishing is that one of the people involved will be tried at a later date for attempted murder, for plotting to kill a witness to the fraud.
Meanwhile, Dean and the Democrats rant on about voter intimidation in Ohio. Their accusations, believed by millions, and parrotted in the press ad nauseum, have been so embarrassingly false, that they have been rebutted by the following individuals: Cornell University Professor, Walter Mebane jr., a Democrat who headed the study of the election process in Ohio to determine if there had been purposeful intimidation and disparity, said ” we have no basis for making such assertions….and the report makes no statements about that.” Franklin County Democrat Party Chairman William Anthony, responding to allegations of voter fraud and intimidation, said, “Why would I disenfranchise voters in my own community?” Kerry’s Ohio legal counsel Dan Hoffheimer said that none of the problems in Ohio add up to conspiracy to intimidate or fraud or enough votes to change the election. The studies, which were prolific, and Democrat, indicated that the same number of machines were allotted everywhere per REGISTERED voter. However, on election day, enormous numbers of unregistered voters (many rounded up on the streets and carted in buses) showed up at polls wishing to use provisional ballots. Plain and simple. This does not a conspiracy make. By the way, in my wealthy district, where I lived temporarily,we had no machines. We had cardboard partitions on card tables, voted on pieces of paper, and then stuck them in a box. Seemed to work.
Meanwhile, in several states, overseas soldiers were disenfranchised as their ballots were sent too late for them to vote and return them in time. Marine Captain Ted Lester said that 95% of his men never received their ballots, and the 5% who did received them too late to vote. Disenfranchisement of our troops is not uncommon. It is tragic, though, and I am far more concerned about them than I am about felons.And, lest anyone jump to conclusions, my brother is a felon, three of my nephews, and several extended family members. I love them dearly, but I also recognize that they have often not had the best interests of society at heart.
In Washington State, that botched election went to their Supreme Court. The judge admitted that the problems were egregious but ridiculously stated that without speaking to each ‘fraudulent’ voter, it would not be possible to tell which way they swung the election. Among other things 55,175 ballots were enhanced in Democrat King county. 1,400 felons voted illegally. 785 provisional ballots were tabulated just in King County, without verification. King county election officials admitted in sworn depositions (this is not a conspiracy theory), that they deliberately submitted false ballot reconciliation reports. The list goes on and on. It is shocking. Voter integrity was totally disintegrated in the state.
But, just to ensure that we have no voter integrity anywhere else either, Hillary Clinton has proposed the cynically worded ‘Count Every Vote Act of 2005′. The act seeks to do away with any form of voter verification (once again, how stupid and incompetent do they think we are?….in Mexico, they have to produce three types of verification.) She, and other Democrats might get away with this, if they can convince enough Americans that there was voter intimidation. Say it often enough, play the race card hard enough, and people will jump on board. Meanwhile, while their own studies could not verify any instances of such, voter fraud was rampant, identified by election officials,and reported in local newspapers, and in several instances,has resulted in trials. I can’t think of anything more dangerous to a democracy, than undermining the integrity of its elections, by failing to verify that people are eligible for the privilege of voting for the leaders who are going to determine the future of all of our lives.
Once again, I have gone on way too long, but I am seriously worried about doing away with verification procedures. It reminds me of voting in a Third World country, where absolutely noone believes that the elected representatives actually got elected. Now we have a situation where people like Kerry and Dean trumpet allegations, absent of all proof, and get so much press coverage, that the story is widely believed. In the meantime, under the radar, a far more insiduous thing is happening to our country.
Jan, just keep doing what you are doing via this new medium and the word will get out.
Anyone keeping up with the Democrat Party’s search for a soul? They are at war with each other. Gov. Tom Vilsac went so far as to truthfully say the party doesn’t stand for anything. Hillary being her evil untruthful self is trying to move to the center while knowing she is a liberal waiting to shed her centrist cover if God punishes us with her Presidency. Even she admits the Democrat Party has no direction. She has in a sense committed a coup and is pushing Vilsac out, thus angering the liberal left idiots who actually believe this girl is moving to the center.
Personally, I think it is simply another cold, calculated move by the Clintons to fool the public. A public that is becoming increasingly more educated thanks to the new media and thus less susceptible to Democrat lies.
If the Dems don’t get it done this time, they are done for a while. The bad news is they will be replaced by a GOP that is really more of the same.
I am I the only one noticing that garbage like Snowe, McCain and Collins are getting more face time on TV than Republican Conservatives?
Darkstar in regards to #142,
My point with your references is that the labels liberal and conservative are broad.
To me conservatives are the most centrist. Not moderates. Moderates either:
1) Have contradicting principles with respect to how much the government should be involved/spend/tax/regulate on different issues
2) Are in between liberals and conservatives on most issues – which makes them LEFT of CENTER still not centrist.
3) Haven’t made up their mind on an issue so they put themselves above others by calling themselves openminded or moderate.
I am not interested in moderate conservatives. I’m not interested in moderates. I’m generally not interested in voting for moderates unless the alternative is having someone more liberal come into office.
I voted for Arnold even though he’s LEFT of CENTER because I thought he was the person who would win making sure Cruz Bustamante the racist who said the “n” word (funny how Democrats get away with that junk) didn’t get in.
While I know Tom McClintock had the better ideas he was at 9% at best in the polls.
Arnold by the way is being treated as an extremist by the Democrats and leftists in the state. Even though Arnold is LEFT of CENTER. He’s increased the expenditures and they call it draconian cuts.
Raymond;
Thanks.
Also, I am so tired of the repetitous stories about Natalee. Many weeks ago,talk show host Mike ? (’Surrounded by Idiots’ author), ranted about the disparity in which white girls get far too much attention from the media, while missing minorities are ignored. What is weird is that the stories are driven by a liberal press, who generally are very race conscious.
I agree that this is a real case of racial bias, and it makes me angry. When a black child is missing, national news should place as much importance on their tragedy, as they do on those of others.
In the case of Mark Lunsford,I believe his daughter had a law named after her because he has become a victim’s advocate. He is devoting his life to traveling to DC and elsewhere, and making impassioned speeches. In addition, his daughter wa buried alive by a convicted sex offender who was known to be an offender. That really is huge news. John Walsh,whose son was beheaded, has devoted his life to enacting legislation.He tells of his intense frustration, early on in the process, when no one seemed to care that his son was missing, and precious time was lost. The investigation was botched horrendously, so John decided to change the way America dealt with missing children. He created a tv show called America’s Most Wanted and his powerful committment caused life-saving legislation to be passed that now protects all of our children. So has the father of Polly Klaas.He has devoted an enormous amount of energy in Washington and in his state, with the media, and around the US, to change the country to be more protective of children. Many of these families have put their lives on hold, and have decided to put all of their love and determination toward making sure that another family does not endure the agony that their child endured.
So, in addition to being upset about the disparity and racism, I also think that black people have to become outspoken advocates for children’s legislation and do what many of these families have done. Not every family can afford to do what these families have done, but by and large, those that go this route will get more recognition. As for the news, that’s another story, and it really really makes me upset. There is no excuse for racial bias in straightforward reporting. Every life is sacred!
The huge problem I have with our news is that here is another dramatic example of how slanted it is in a tragic direction. News should be news, devoid of racial bias.News should be devoid of bias, period….wishful thinking. We can get the other junk in the National Enquirer and such.
Speaking of bias, you almost never hear about missing males, either. I have a son, and four daughters, and the difference in society’s attitudes towards males versus females is staggering. Males have come to be seen as brutes and thugs, and not important to the family structure. What the heck is going on? I abhor our society’s attitudes toward’s males, and it seems like feminists have come to see them as adversaries. Yuck!
Amen Jan. Keep writing them and get others to do so. I too was flummoxed at how the usually race conscious liberal media ignored this story behid the story.
Redbeard,
Funny how a company gets crucified as a VRWC hack for botching the felon weeding contract. Yet when the same company botches the security of 40 million American credit records and identities, it’s just a non-partisan screwup that illustrates the monumental difficulty in getting accurate records, maintaining and securing them.
Is that just partisan hypocrisy on the MSM/DNC or what?
The exact same issues that causes people to get inaccurate data on file against them is what causes people — in Fla, no more than a couple thousand at worst — to innocently get removed or added to the voter rolls.
Besides, in Fla, there was no such “1 million” disenfranchised black voters when the black population was barely 2.5 million in 2000 there.
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/003721.html
Not to mention that notion was so thoroughly debunked by many sources, including Fla MSM.
Yo, Dell, where you be?
ROFL (at Andy)
“Racism is a human trait.” Yes it is. “Us versus them”? Human. “Let’s be nice to each other and go kill those guys and take their land.”? Human, all too human. Wrong? Is “hate” wrong? Well, if violence in self defense is not wrong, then to say that hate is wrong is to say that the emotions naturally associated with violence in self defense are wrong. Which is as absurd as saying that sex for procreation is acceptable but the pleasure is still a sin. Hate is no less right than sexual pleasure. [ie: it depends on the situation.]
This does not in itself imply that racial nationalism is not an evil. But anyone who says that it is is either lying or a fool. Or both.
Good News Everyone! FOX News has finally run the story of the missing 24 year old Black-Hispanic, pregnant woman on their website.
Waiting to se if she will get the same national news coverage of Natalee Holloway and Laci Peterson or Chandra Levy. Can’t forget Chandra.
Jan,
Before I begin it is nice, (and I do appreciate and enjoy) having this dialogue.
Perhaps my comprehension of your statement differs with your actual intent. Although, your statement does read in such a way that it seems to imply that you think; calling or referring to someone (or something, including a whole race of people)as evil makes that person leveling the accusation a racist.
You wrote;
“Secondly, when a black person says that white people are evil, as Farrakhan and his ilk frequently do, they don’t have to assert racial superiority. The PRESUMPTION is there, and we can all dance around it however much we want to do so. Naturally, if white man is evil or degraded in so many ways, then black man has to be superior.â€
Jan said, quote, “The PRESUMPTION is there.”
Hipstreet said, quote, “You presume”
Above is an exact quote from your earlier post #111. I can only interpret what is written. (in standard english form) I accept your further explaination and clarification of the statement, although, it vastly differs from the above statement.
Now, with concerns to the Black Panther Party. I attended one of those so called “Liberal” universities here in the Detroit (Wayne State University; GO WARRIORS!). My minor was African American/Caribbean Africana Cultural studies. I’ve done extensive research on the Panther Party of the 60s’ and 70s’. Although I am not an member of the present day Panther Party (New Panther/Marcus Garvey movement; not affiliated with the old) I have worked and attended several functions (rallys for better schools and education, rally/protests against drugs, crack houses and street gangs, civic and nieghborhood responsilbilty, ect..)with members of the organization.
If you’re old enough or have read enough, you should be aware that the 60’s were extremely turbulent years in America. To call the Black Panthers “terrorist” is indeed disingenuous. Again, I must make a comparison. Present day “terrorist” have shown and defined the real meaning of terror in this world today(which is very scary I might add). In no way does that Panther organization of the 60’s, 70’s or even present day compare to what we are faced with at the present.
The Panther organization in that era was a “confrontational” entity to the established principle of racism and the racist attitudes which persisted throughout America. Don’t you remember the Civil Rights Movement? The Panthers were spawned from it!
Although young and RADICAL, (yes I said radical) the Panthers were never responsible, although accused, for any “terrorist” (terror as we know it today) acts. Now if you find it comfortable to redefine terror to make your point superficially pleasing or persuasive, go right ahead. Can you find ONE incident of; bombing, brutal attacks on the public(state, city or political party or race), violent ritual mantra’s or moral displays of conquest against “evil” or any other terror related theme? Now that these same examples and apply them to the Ku KLux Klan and what do you get?
The Panthers were targeted from their conception by the Government. That is a proven FACT! The Goernments own documents show this. Yes there were some in the organization that were “militant.” Yes there were violent incidents and clash’s with police. But all of it was confrontational (between the police and the Panthers). The Panthers were never involved in or sanctioned the bombing a church/building/home/business, assasinating an offical or the taking hostages to secure or achieve a goal.
I’m not saying everything that happened within the organization was “righteous and pure.” I have read and studied quite a bit about this organization. All you need to do is look the infomation up for yourself. Don’t just go by snippets from news articles and someone elses personal ideas and quotes. As I said before, don’t look through the garbage for the truth. Get the real story. There’s good and bad in every organization/country/person’s past.
Hipstreet-
Hipstreet;
Thanks, thanks, and thanks for your receptiveness to talking to someone who challenges everything! I can be a total pain. I have to warn you that I am extremely argumentative, and accept nothing at face value. But, you don’t either, so that’s a good thing. Wow, now that we have that settled, it is great to talk to you!
Doesn’t it seem to you like there might be a presumption that if Farrakan says that ‘white people’ are evil, then a) he has just bashed an entire race of people and b) it would lead someone from that race of people to think that Farrakan thinks he is superior to them, because he does not, I hope, think his people are evil. If not, I’m confused. All I know is that if I heard Robert Byrd say that he thought that black people were evil, I would presume that he was a white supremacist. I would be very disgusted. (Actually, I don’t even understand how he got elected, but that’s beside my original point.) So educate me here if I am off base. When my daughter sits on an airplane this week and sees a guy with a paper that says that ‘all evil is found in the flesh of the white man’, I just naturally presume that the author doesn’t feel that way about himself or his people. Don’t you? At the very least, stuff like that is really really wrong.
Next, I was a civil rights activist, and was out there protesting and fighting for civil rights in the sixties. My grandfather is black and I spent all my summers in an all black neighborhood in Wash. DC, on 24th ST. NE. At the time, I was into ‘the movement’, and only knew what I read in the papers about the Panthers. Some of my recent information has been sourced by David Horowitz. Also, I have gotten a lot of trial transcripts, and read a lot of other writers. I would not automatically assume that I was picking through the garbage, and I consider Horowitz credible with regards to the Black Panthers within the sphere of his experience. Do you have a good source that is objective for me to read? I will give it a good faith try.
As far as how I define terror, it has always meant to me, an act of violence used to intimidate. Killing an individual suspected of being a government informant is an act intended to intimidate the government from further investigation. That’s terrorism, to me.
Gotta run!
Kwanzaa does have a rather dubious origin, tied to a rumored prison experiment involving Karenga, De Freeze and a CIA operative or two.
However, I would remind you that much of the tradition surrounding our modern day Christmas has it’s origins in pagan rituals. And in the end, it’s really just a great time together with family and renew your spirit.
My family has a Christman Dinner and a Kwanzaa Karamu every year. We have made it our own.
brotherbrown, it’s one thing to repurpose a pagan ritual or observance thereby erasing the original significance, it’s another thing to incorporate pagan tenets.
W/o a doubt, Kwanzaa is pagan and you welcome Satan into your house at your risk by introducing pagan concepts to your fmily that might not have otherwise occurred to them. La Shawn has quite a few posts along with the diverse give and take from her commenters. I suggest you persue those posts and see if you sill feel the same sense of spiritual equivalence.
I’ll ask this again, and the question is sincere.
Why is there such a strong interest in “saving foolish Black folk” from Kwanzaa and it’s pagan roots, yet nothing gets said about Mardi Gras?
Let’s see, before you go into the season of self denial, participate in full blown hedonism. Celebrate it in bars with strong drinks all over the country.
t’s one thing to repurpose a pagan ritual or observance thereby erasing the original significance
Baloney. That’s exactly what some churches are attempting to do; to “repurpose a pagan ritual”.
Some Christians are more worried about Christmas not being called Christmas and Kwanzaa than they are concerned with the corruption of Christmas with commericalism and the ever increasing loss of the meaning of Christmas.
Spare me the liberal-like paternalism!
To all bloggers on this thread;
Why all the wrangling about Kwanzaa? Why not bicker over Valentines Day, Halloween or April Fools day? I’ll tell you why. Because the latter “celebrations” have been woven into the fabric of American society.
These routine celebrations are for the most part “all inclusive” (meaning that, all those who wish to participate can, and are free to do so). I choose not to participate in Halloween because I do believe that it is seething in pagan tradition. But thats merely my choice.
Being that as it may, I can’t avoid being bombarded every year by the media, friends, nieghbors, schools, and even my own kids! Thats right, my own kids. I tried to shelter them from what I believe is insanity but I was outdone by the afore mentioned forces. So you know what I did? I ACCEPTED IT! Thats right, I caved.
It was my wife that made me see through the storm. At first I thought she was implying that I didn’t love my kids because I didn’t what them getting dressed up like fools and running about the neighborhood begging for candy. I love my wife and kids dearly and I would never do anything to hurt or dismay them.
She made me think. I thought back to time when I was a kid and for whatever reason (as kids do) the other kids wouldn’t let me play with them. I’d run off in a huff telling them “I didn’t want to play your stupid game anyway.” At times I was the one that ran another kid off, and he would make the same disparaging reamrks to the other kids and myself.
You see, this is how Whites feel about Kwanzaa. They feel that “you black people always what to play by yourselves and won’t let us White people join in.” Before you go off on a tangent, I DO NOT MEAN TO IMPLY THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE CHILDISH. I’m just trying to make a point. (You don’t have to agree with my anaylogy)
The fact is no one ever said Whites could not join in celebrating Kwanzaa. My mother-in-law (who by the way is White, as is my wife) asked me if I could introduce my children (I’m Black, so the kids are Black)to the Holiday. Heck, they celebrate Halloween, and Kwanzaa by no mean has any pagan rituals, so I did. I tried it for a couple of years, the kids understood what it was all about, but it never caught on in my family.
Still!!!
Kwanzaa is merely an expression of one mans (Ron Karenga)legacy and gift for his people. There is no worshipping of hero’s, God’s, statues, spirits or myths in Kwanzaa. Read the seven principles.
So why all the huff? If you don’t want to celebrate Kwanzaa, then don’t. No one is forcing you to do so. For those who wish to celebrate Kwanzaa, Valentines Day, April Fools, St. Patricks Day, Labor Day, Halloween, Black History Month, Thanksgiving, Hanukkah, The Great Smoke Out or whatever, feel free, after all, this is America!
If you would like to know more about Kwanzaa goto, http://www.ritesofpassage.org/kwanzaameaning.htm
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