When the ideas of the left come into view, the themes often include the closing of Guantanamo, attacks on the Patriot Act, opposition to military recruitment on campuses, casual mockery of patriotism and a failure to admit that defeating terrorism will require some tradeoffs between security and civil liberties. (Emphasis added)
Meanwhile, Islamofascists are preparing to kill more London commuters.
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La Shawn:
French are ahead of the USA and Brits in this arena. They are already deporting “preachers of hate” – French citizenship does not protect them.
The whining of the Left about “civil liberties” – that they want perfect security but don’t want to sacrifice anything to get it – reminds me of a call to a talk show -
“I want to have my gun loaded and ready for self-defense, but I want it absolutely safe for my children”. Only a Leftist could be so dense.
I myself am one of those “Liberals” on the Left. Let’s not paint a picture that all, or even most, Liberals are “whining” about the erosion of civil liberties. (which should be of concern to all Americans)
The reality is that an attacking terrorist won’t care if you’re Conservative, Liberal, rich, poor, young or old. We’re all vulnerable in this game.
The current Government has and will decide what it perceives as the best domestic policy in the war on terror.(ie..Patriot Act) I didn’t vote for this President, but hey, we lost, I’m dealing with it. I’ve had grappling debates with some of my Liberal cohorts over my contention that “so it is written, so it shall be done.” That’s not to say that I’ll follow blindly, I just believe in abiding by the law and the rules.
I read the linked article written by John Leo in which he wrote “someone on Air America, the liberal talk radio network, suggested that riders carry many bags to confuse and irritate the cops.”
Well John, Americans have a right to carry as many bags as they please as long as the bag dosen’t contain a BOMB! If they do it just to irritate the police, they’re simply wasting theirs’ and everyone elses’ time.
Side note:If your time is that valuable, use another form of transportation, leave early or whatever you need to do. I do! It’s called DEALING WITH IT!
As for “Shut Mouths and Open Bags”; once a provision is added to the Patroit Act (or some other assault on the Constitution) abridging the freeedom of speech I will….well, let’s just wait and see.
Certainly not a great deal to argue about in that post (no thanks for taking away the fun) hippie. I will say that I think it misses the point. Sure the griping and whinning is tiring, but it is the reasons that are the most disturbing. It is that some believe random searches before you enter a public area somehow crosses the boundry of what it is to be a American.
Citizens have slightly more cause to demand a ride on public transportation, because they pay for the service, than they have to ride private trasportation (a cab driver can refuse to give you a ride because he just doesn’t feel like. This should not be taken as an absolute right. Riding public trasportation, like driving a car on publicly funded roads, is a priviledge that can be revoked due to failure to abide by the terms of using that service.
It seems to me that choosing to use a service and being subjected to those rules is much less intrusive than being required to go to court and then be searched at a courthouse. You are, after all, subject to penalty if you don’t go. We tolerate being searched with no consent entering a courthouse for safety reasons, and I see much less of a problem in being searched with implied consent at the subway station. Implied because we choose to be there.
Which leads me back to the original point, it would be un-American to force someone to use public transportation. So the basis for the argument of “civil rights” is not only wrong, it is wrong to the point of stupidity. And the implication that this has been engineered with wanton and willful disregard for some bogus right, turns the stomach of people who have a little more grasp of what a “right” actually entails.
I hear comments from both dogmatic lefties and deluded ex-conservatives (the Pat Buchanan crowd) that we are losing our liberties to the Patriot Act. Yet not one of those people can express a cogent, concrete example of a single lost liberty. Instead, it’s always just “sky is falling” rhetoric.
Free speech is not absolute, not now, not ever. The 1st Amendment has never protected the right to shout “fire” in a crowded theater. The 4th Amendment cannot be construed to allow anyone to refuse a security check at an airport or any other public transportation terminal.
If the Patriot Act can be shown to violate the rights of U.S. citizens, then I’m in favor of rewriting it. But until that time, I can’t get terribly worked up over a bunch of what-ifs and maybes.
Okay, let’s open our “bags” and open our “minds” to this one.
Let’s say just ten short years ago, you, the wife and kids are flying to grandma’s for the holidays’. Can you honestly, and I mean honestly, say that if your wife were asked (ordered) by an airport security screener to step up in front of hundreds of other waiting passengers, to have her bra inspected, then asked to remove her shoes, and further being “felt-up” by some $6.50 an hour barely trained to give CPR airport screener? To that you would have said nothing?
True, we only have the terrorist’s to blame for the “increase” in security precautions.
The afore mentioned scenario has occured frequently over the past couple of years. So you ask, whats my solution? I DONT FLY ANYMORE.
If for some reason it becomes absolutely necessary (placing more emphasis on expediency than on principle )I’ll deal with “unreasonable search’s.”
Any “sane” person would never yell “fire” in a crowded theater. Hey, if I smelled something burning or saw a fire in a theater, even then I wouldn’t yell “fire.” I would inform the manager or an employee on my way out the door!
I think you gave this the wrong title La Shawn. Some of the mouths on the left are big enough to carry enough explosives to take out a large bus.
A self-described liberal (#2) sounded reasonable, and I think I was thrown off my game. Kudos, Hipstreet.
I confess to not yet having reviewed the Patriot Act for myself, but my son — to the right of me, and I’m a certified member of the right-wing lunatic fringe — has insisted a couple of provisions go too far. He’s not an alarmist, and he usually has good insights, but he hasn’t stated specifics.
But this I do know: The claims and woe-is-us commercials of (ACLU, American Library Association, among others) groups decrying “snooping on what we read,” etc., is so blatantly misleading it practically shows criminal intent: Library computer programs track the library’s collections, not its patrons. Once a book, periodical or other checked-out item is returned, not even the head librarian can find out who may have checked what out.
The only patron information kept on file is contact information, material checked out on the library card at that point in time, and any fines not yet paid.
Now, IF the Patriot Act required libraries to begin keeping records they are not currently equipped to maintain, that would be an unfunded mandate and I’d say it was a legitimate complaint. But that’s not what they’re screaming about.
And what is almost amusing about the whole thing — OK, it’s downright funny — is that the Department of Justice or Homeland Security, or whoever, has not yet attempted to check on a suspected terrorist’s reading habits. The feds are apparently unaware that when they do get around to serving a summons or warrant, they’re going to draw a blank.
And, yes, I do know I have a warped sense of humor.
Responses to the posted article:
Someone on Air America, the liberal talk radio network, suggested that riders carry many bags to confuse and irritate the cops.
That would be aiding the enemy. What’s that the definition of?
Mayor Bloomberg has ordered that the searches be entirely random, to avoid singling out any one ethnic or religious group.
That would be like having a complete random search after a rapist rapes (might’ve been a woman this time even though the victim was a woman)
Hipstreet,
Your scenario wasn’t prescribed by the Patriot Act. In fact, you can say that Norm Mineta a Democrat was more responsible than anyone else. Norm after 9/11 insisted very vigorously that all airport screening would be done RANDOMLY (read the wives being screened). In fact language was written by Norm Mineta’s staff to make sure that no more than a very small # (I think 2) muslims were searched in a given period of time.
That was suicidal language in my eyes. They could have 20 guys come on and only 2 of the 18 be searched. Oh. Who’s bag was that? Oh. That was mine – not his. Oh. OK. Go on through then.
Oh. Ma’am. come right this way. Sir. It’ll be ok, we are just searching for anything dangerous on her person. Sir. Step back behind the line. OK. now what do we have here….. nail clipper. That’s allowed now. Cell phone. Can you turn this on for me? We need to see it work. OK. Do you have any part of you or your clothing that’s metal? There is something in this area that you aren’t telling me about…………
Let’s blame Wepublicans and Bush because we are incensed about this stuff going on…. Yet conservatives recognize that Bush (and Norm) is to the left of us conservatives. yet, Liberals act like Bush is extremely to the right.
Just a thought…… I wonder how much opposition to the Patriot Act is generated by a genuine fear of lost liberties, and how much is due to the intense hatred the left holds for George Bush. I’d say the latter is more significant than we might think at first glance.
Redbeard, BINGO.
Remember Clipper? Where were the bulk of the left when Pres. Clinton was trying to get that put into place?
I’ll give some respect to the civil libertarians and the consistently wary of the government types on the right and the left who protested both Clipper and the Patriot act (and a host of other things like them). But for the Moveon crowd… I have but a single finger, which goes along with their one note tune
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