…so black applicants can pass it.
For reasons unknown, it never occurs to the clueless in charge of these things to change the people trying to pass the test instead of diluting the test for the people. I assume such tests measure cognitive ability and certain skill sets for the job.
Rather than shifting upward and expanding the pool of qualified black applicants (as affirmative action was originally conceived) with the requisite cognitive ability and skills, they’ll shift downward to make the test “passable” for black applicants, specifically. The first thing whites do when making these decisions is appeal to the lowest element. And this is offensive to no black person but me?
And apparently since a higher percentage of “minorities” have criminal records, they will also “put in place a process in which candidates’ past transgressions — if relatively minor – could be considered on a case-by-case basis.”
I’m not making this up. Instead hiring people with no criminal records and smart enough to pass a firefighters test, they’ll hire people with police records and not smart enough to pass the firefighters test. My indignation against this garbage is only one of many reasons black liberals “take issue” with me. Their attitudes are most idiotic and illogical.
I clearly see the sort of depraved thinking and low expectations certain whites have about blacks. No one should be taught to get by in life on the color of his skin, and when I call it out, the venom turns in my direction instead of toward the people who make rules perpetuating mediocrity and a hand-out mentality in the first place!
If hiring rap sheet-free intelligent people means they won’t hire a black applicant for another five years, so be it. Perhaps if mothers and fathers start teaching children that being dull, crime-prone, and whiny is no way to go through life, they would learn not to use their skin color to get what they didn’t earn and don’t deserve.
“We shall overcome. We shall overcome. We shall overcome some dayyyyyyyyyy…”
Makes me sick to my stomach.
Related posts:
- ‘Good’ Discrimination
- Racist Firefighters Exam
- Firehouse Diversity
- The Immorality of Race Preferences
Update: This is SO embarrassing! Eliminating a swimming test because black applicants can’t swim? How about eliminating applicants who can’t swim? Paternalism can be fatal!
It’s not me, right? It’s them. Tell me I’m not losing my mind…
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I really don’t get this. I know plenty of firefighters. Most are good men, stalwart and strong. The will, and do, lay their lives on the line for complete strangers. BUT, very few of them are MENSA candidates. I know a couple more that I doubt could balance a check book. I don’t think the bar to be a firefighter is really that high, in the intellectual side.
The current test is aimed at someone with a middle school level education… I can’t even fathom the notion of letting ex-cons on the force just to act as a balm for someone’s over-developed notion of fairness or justice.
If the qualifications are lowered for minorities, and only for minorities, then these firefighters should attend to fires only in minority neighborhoods.
When I call on the Fire Dept. to extinguish a fire in my house, I expect them to be competent, not sub-standard ex-cons. I don’t care what race they are, I just expect them to be able to do their job. Lower standards of recruitment will always result in lower standards of ability.
Hold on, I take it back. These minority firefighters should be allocated to the neighborhoods of the liberal morons who are making these decisions. It’ll bring a whole new meaning to burn, baby burn.
You know, when you raise the bar, you get a better qualified person.
To lower a standard means to put everyone else at risk. Is the city of Denver willing to put themselves at risk for lawsuits if the potential employees can’t make the grade?
Living in Denver I saw the “Post” over the weekend. Two full pages with huge color photos declaring the “Problem!”- Right this minute there are no blacks on the Denver Fire Dept. This in itself constitutes a problem for the libs at the Denver Post.
Once again the problem is numerical. Blacks are 12 % of the population, (Not in Colorado) but they occupy none of these great jobs! It must be racism!
And the BIG LIE ? These same number crunchers have no problem with the “numbers in pro sports! Blacks occupy about 75 % of these REALLY GOOD JOBS. But what about the fact that they’re only 12 % of the population? No racism here!
Why is it a two page story that there are no black firefighters at the moment in Denver, yet for decades whites have been kept out of most pro sports at alarming levels? Why is this not a bigger story? The numbers are bigger. They occupy over 75 % of the population yet hold a small minority of these multi-million dollar positions? Must be racism!
#3 Shipwrecked
When I call on the Fire Dept. to extinguish a fire in my house, I expect them to be competent, not sub-standard ex-cons. I don’t care what race they are, I just expect them to be able to do their job.
Well, now you will have to care what color they are.
Liberal policies usually achieve the opposite of its stated goal. Here, the goal is more black in the fire department, but the result will be more firefighter mistakes and more bias that blacks are dumb and only are in higher positions because of their skin color. So sad.
1. I do have a problem with lower the test standards for minorities unless a compelling argument can be made that the need for having minorities on the force out weighs the reduction in aptitude required. I am not sure in this instance it can be done. Personally, I think it is a recruitment issue.
2. I do not have a problem with on a case by case basis allowing those with minor trangressions on if they pass the test.
Pajamazon, in terms of your reference to professional athletes, 1st your statistics are incorrect, are you sure you didn’t mean NBA?
Second you are guilty of the logical fallacy of false comparison. For your comparison to be valid, the ‘qualifications’ for both would have to be similar, which they are not in principle or in structure.
Unless you believe intellect is soley genetic, and blacks genetically are inferior intellectually, which is why they can not pass the aptitude part then your argument won’t fly. Comparing contract driven big market athletic leagues to public service positions is apples and oranges.
So one simple question, you don’t see it as at least an issue to consider that there are absolutely NO black firefighters in a city that size? It is not like Denver is small town USA.
And we wonder why Black children don’t list their own education as a priority when it comes to whether or not they will succeed in life.
Future headlines:
- “Man born with one leg sues to join MLS team. Claims discrimination”
- “Woman sues to join Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity”
- “Whoopie Goldberg and Flava Flav sue Revlon”
- “Shannon Faulkner renews lawsuit. Want to be Airborne Ranger”
- “2.3 GPA Student graduates from community college and sues MIT for not accepting him”
- “Female kicker at Colorado sues to play on offensive line”
- “Tavis Smiley sues to join the Ku Klux Klan”
- “High school drop out sues to win anchor spot on ABC News”
The city of Austin, Texas’ fire department has had to scrap its most recent candidate class and three thousand applicants have to reapply. The EEOC and other liberal bean counters determined that the test was unfairly subjective and that the strength test adversely affected female applicants. The cost to the taxpayer was a mere $500,000. The cost to those who will now be rejected in favor of less qualified applicants is incalcuable. The cost to those who will be dragged down stairs by the hair ‘to safety’ by a small framed female fire fighter is appalling. Liberals, in their zeal to ram equality down everyone’s throat, are creating a great deal of animosity in this country. The irony is that they then look around, seeing the problems they have created, and arrogantly say, “See, this country needs us to fix its problems!”
Our city manager in Austin, Texas believes that only liberals truly understand the problems of institutional racism, and that those who are opposed to her enlightened solutions are racist bigots. She believes that blacks simply cannot prosper without her help, and is appalled that anyone has a problem with using taxpayer money to provide ‘necessities’ like nightclubs that cater to blacks only, so that they can feel ‘nurtured’ (I kid you not…she convened panels on how the city should use taxpayer money to ‘nurture’ ‘African Americans’). One of her huge concerns is that blacks are moving to the suburbs, rather than staying in the city. I assume they are doing it for the same reason that most people do, which is to send their kids to better schools, have larger yards, cheaper housing, and live in a lower crime area. Before I had to sell my expensive home (property taxes were well over one thousand dollars a month; people are losing their homes right and left in Texas, which makes them feel distinctly ‘unnurtured’), I lived on a beautiful cul-de-sac with two black families and three white families. Except for me, the other families had young children, and wanted them to attend the exemplary school nearby. What our city manager doesn’t seem to realize is that all four families could have lived anywhere, but they made choices, and did great without her help. She just wants to make the choices for everyone, as she feels that her’s are more enlightened, and that the ‘ignorant’ masses don’t really know what’s best for themselves. I could scream every time I read her self congratulatory tripe in the newspapers, as she always speaks of her every decision as one of intense compassion……I wish I could send her a bunch of comments from this blog from blacks who are sick of patronizing liberals who see themselves as the solution to the problems of society.
“So one simple question, you don’t see it as at least an issue to consider that there are absolutely NO black firefighters in a city that size? It is not like Denver is small town USA.”
Since the question is out there…
Ummm NO… I don’t care what size city Denver is… if the fact is that blacks can’t pass the test, then why don’t we look at WHY NOT before we jump on the “lets have quotas” bandwagon. If it is aptitude and education (and criminal records)…ignoring those factors won’t fix any problem and will put lives in danger.
This whole “racism” whine fest is getting SOOOOO old.
Raymond you are funny (and what you posted is SOOOO true)
DG
Your long wordy statements sound “intellectual” but make NO sense. I know you’re a sharp, ( if misguided ) guy. You miss my point completely and then try to confuse the issue with non-related gobble-di-gook.
Who cares if for the moment there are no blacks on the fire dept.? Who cares how many whites play b-ball? Only the REAL RACISTS! Those who spend time searching for numerical disparity for political gain. (Maybe like you D.)
Dell,
Your argument reminds me of that dumb question Al Sharpton asked Howard Dean during one of the 2004 Democrat debates. Al asked Howard Dean why he had no Blacks on his staff when he was Governor of Vermont. Of course the dim witted Howard Dean should have just told the truth which is that there are no Blacks in Vermont (lowest percentage of Blacks of any state in the Union) to hire. Instead he just danced around the question looking for a politically correct answer.
Dell, if there are no Blacks on the Fire Department because they can’t pass the test then those Blacks who want to be firemen need to study harder and become more intellectually capable of passing the dadgum test. Simple.
You see Dell, when the one or two good teachers in those gubmint schools kept telling little Dontavious to quit misbehaving, dreaming of a pro sports or rappin’ career and not taking books home and for him to pay attention?………
When he chose not to listen, he became one of those failures sitting outside the firehouse instead of in it.
The harshest stares a Black person paying with a foodstamp card in the grocery line gets is from other hardworking Blacks who are paying for their steaks and lobster.
Dell;
I totally agree that one cannot compare the professional athlete sector with the public service sector, and say that one nullifies the other. And, I find it absolutely intriguing that there are no black firemen in Denver. I wonder why. Ironically, on a LaShawn post last week in which it was determined that black females were overrepresented in the EEOC by over 600%,and that white males were underrepresented, writer after writer reflexively determined, with no empirical evidence at hand, that whites obviously didn’t want public sector jobs. Hmmm. Different standards applied to different numbers?
Back to Denver.Lowering standards to ‘right’ the numbers is anathema, but broadening recruitment efforts would help. Steven L. Carter espouses that route, and I think it makes sense. Ramming a quota doesn’t. Ultimately, however, a singular approach will be too simplistic, as the convergence of societal factors is so complex. That’s why ’social architects’ so often fail. They take a complex problem, provide a simplistic solution, which in turn creates more complex problems…..And, of course, they’re usually at the expense of someone else.
Another point for D. G.
I’d suggest on your next out-of town trip you use a sky-cap instead of the ticket counter. Here’s the reason; Even in OMAHA the MAJORITY of sky-caps are black! Now as we travel around the country we begin to notice this; about 75 % of sky-caps are black! Now in Chicago or L.A. one would expect this but how do you explain it in Nebraska? Where blacks are what……4 % of the population?
It’s selective blindness. It’s the non-logic of multiple standards based on race instead of merit. People panic at the NUMBERS but only CERTAIN numbers.
Comrades,
Well, let’s just take a moment and see how this idea might be extended to other Denver-area jobs.
Start with the City Council… maybe “add” some extra votes to the tally for minority candidates? You know, they can’t speak like white folk and sure need some help getting the vote out.
Then there are the Police. Shall we dumb-down the test in order to gain a higher minority percentage? Maybe make a special detail for Crips and Bloods cause, ya know, they already are familiar with gangs and drugs and guns. Save a LOT of money in training with that idea!
How about doctors and EMTs? Maybe give a few extra points on the test to minority candidates to fudge the employmwent numbers? I know we might have a few extra deaths due to the less-qualified applicants, but heck, anything for the faux-diversity mantra, eh?
It is the absolute hight of racisim to tell someone that “we know you aren’t as well educated or even basically as smart as the white folk because, well, you aren’t white” THAT is what is being said by the liberals. They can spin it anyway they want to, but that is what they are really saying.
When my family’s lives are in danger, I want the BEST and most qualified persons available to help out. Not someone who was given the job in order to appease someone else’s self-imposed guilt. We all bleed the same color. Race ought not to be any part of the equation.
Respects,
Gwedd
The real problem is seeing a problem where there isn’t a problem.
“There are no black firefighters in Denver.”
Why, exactly, is this a problem? Who CARES what heritage or enthnicity a person has, so long as he or she does the job well.
Now, fair enough to examine this situation for what may be racist policies. Do black candidates fail the test at higher rates than white candidates with similar educational qualifications? Is the same test given to everyone? (I would certainly hope so! Picture the famous “Answer three questions before crossing the bridge” scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail). What is the test assessing? Are those qualitites necessary to the job of firefighting?
These are the sorts of questions worth answering. Simply changing numbers is ridiculous and insulting to all concerned.
How about Muslim women on the fire department in Denver? Certainly they should be permitted to climb ladders with just a tiny bit of their faces sticking out of their robes. And certainly they should not be required to save “infidel.”
La Shawn writes: “If hiring rap sheet-free intelligent people means they won’t hire a black applicant for another five years, so be it. Perhaps if mothers and fathers start teaching children that dull, crime-prone, and whiny is no way to go through life, they would learn not to use their skin color to get what they didn’t earn and don’t deserve.”
La Shawn nails it for the umpteenth-zillion time. And it applies to all the little kids dragging the learning curve in schools across America. If the parent was not so self-absorbed and instead devoted herself to seeing her child being accomplished and being honestly promoted, a great deal would be different for many Americans. (Not to mention that the prison population might drop as well.)
Renee – I said above, it may be a ‘recruitment’ issue as opposed to an aptitude issue. If you have a small population of blacks, then the likelihood of getting a black into a respective field decreases because of the spreading of the population base. That doesn’t necessarily indicate racism, it is just a social fact. So if blacks with the ‘aptitude’ aren’t applying but instead working in other fields that they perceive are better for them then the fire department will by default be getting black applicants that couldn’t make it in the other fields applying and getting rejected on the test. So as I said, it may be a recruitment issue, however, I still find it odd that in a city bigger than mine (Omaha) there are no black fire fighters whatsoever.
Pajamazon – Gobbledigook
, it seems someone has a problem passing the LaShawn Barber website aptitude test. I will let your ad hom’s slide and deal with your relevent comments (particularly sincee you don’t even know the definition of racism). You claim it is the ‘non-logic’ of numbers, and to a degree I don’t disagree. However, in statistics numbers fall within a certain range, it is the sociologist job to determine why. That is why I said above it may not be ‘racism’ at all, but a simple issue of small population applied over a large area. But at the same time, logic dictates that having ‘no’ black firemen in a city that size is an anomoly. I am sorry for the big word, is this better, it is really weird.
Raymond – “Dell, if there are no Blacks on the Fire Department because they can’t pass the test then those Blacks who want to be firemen need to study harder and become more intellectually capable of passing the dadgum test. Simple.” I agree.
Gwedd – “Race ought not to be any part of the equation.” Are you crazy?
Here in Florida, we had a female muslim basketball player at the University of South Florida as well as some other high school girl who sued so they could wear their “ninja suits” on the court.
Go figure.
I live in Denver. This does not make me feel reassured.
I suspect that whomever wants to pass the exam will pass the exam if they choose to buckle down and study. Perhaps the career isn’t attractive to certain segments of the black community.
I think what is very important is that in general, America is becoming a dumbed down society. I was watching the Today show this morning and Al Roker, was doing an “on the street” type report asking passers by general civics questions like: How many states are in the union? or How long does a senator serve? or What is the name of the first ten amendments of the Constitution?
It was AMAZING how many people didn’t know the answers to those type of questions but knew that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are dating and that Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes are engaged.
It was really really disturbing.
Lowering of standards helps no one.
This all reminds me of this:
“The North Miami Police Department recently decided, for a year, to stop requiring its recruits to pass a swimming test. The department is struggling to attract new officers, and officials believe the requirement discourages black people, who historically tend to be non-swimmers, from applying.”
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/swimmin427
Kudos Tiffany! You and I have our differences, but I admire your rational thinking, not simply because you agree with me.
Perhaps fighting fires isn’t a job that appeals to blacks in Denver. Maybe they should recruit outside the country or out-of-state. Casting a wide is affirmative action; the gunk that passes for it these days is just bean-counting tokenism.
I think a lot of this can be blamed on the NEA and the Federal Education entities turning public schools into cess pools of low standards, low expectations, celbrations of mediocrity, anti-American thought, and left-wing social indoctrination.
Only parents who are selfish continue to send their kids to public schools.
I agree with the thrust of La Shawn’s posting and the comments. But if the sample published by the Rocky Mtn News is any indication, that is one bad written test. “Medium rainfall”? That whole question and the answer set are incoherent.
Regardless, the question has to be whether the city can show that their testing has predictive validity with respect to how people perform as firefighters. Can the city make that case?
#25. Jeff: They totally dismissed the fact that Florida and certainly Miami contains many bodies of water. Including lakes, bonds, canals, ditches, rivers and oceans where an officer could likely be called to handle business.
Doesn’t surprise me. The local City Councils in those areas are run for the most part by those who fly the rainbow flag as opposed the American Flag.
Thank you, Ms. Barber. Finally, someone is the voice of reason on this issue. For years I’ve observed the bar being lowered for the sake of “diversity”…and have waited for the outrage from the African American community. I’m still waiting. While I am not a minority, I cannot imagine that I would not be offended and insulted by such tactics if I were. Such action suggests black Americans can’t compete…unless the standards are lowered. That is a slap in the face to every smart, hard-working minority in this country…yet the silence from black America is deafening.
Dell–you need to read more carefully. The RMN article states the current composition of the DFD as follows:
“In all, the department has 916 firefighters. Of those 54 are black, 196 are Hispanic, 14 are American Indians, nine are Asians, 37 are women and remaining 606 are white males.”
In other words, 25-30% of the DFD are members of minority groups, and roughly 5% are African American.
The city of Denver is a case study of the failures of modern liberal politics. It is so solidly Democratic that the Republican party doesn’t even bother cultivating competitive candidates for mayor anymore.
Over twenty years of Democratic mayors has left the city a cesspool of bloated and ineffective bureaucracy, corruption, cronyism, failing schools, a demoralized police department, and judging by this article it will soon have a demoralized fire department. Denver’s fiscal survival depends upon several tax schemes that transfer tax receipts from suburban counties and the state coffers to the city, directly or indirectly.
But hey, what can you expect from a city in which the Mayor bans the words “Merry Christmas” from the state holiday display for being offensive and contemporaneously announces that he will, acting in his official capacity as Mayor, light the Menorah display to kick-off the Chanuka celebration for the city’s Jewish population. Lunacy.
Is it any wonder that the last two major news stories coming from Denver were:
1. Mark Cohn gets shot in a carjacking attempt
2. Nutjob tags cars with pro-Bush bumper stickers
Like most of my neighbors in Denver, I got fed up and left to the suburbs. Now I just chuckle when I read articles like this in the paper. Denver can rot.
La Shawn, you stated the case perfectly as always.
There are some things that are so *obviously* wrong that you just wonder why people even advocate/push for them in the first place. This is one of those issues.
#25 Maybe we have to start calling the police like placing an order at Burger King ” I would like one that swims because I’m drowning”
La Shawn, I thought this salt and pepper nonsense had ended when I was still a child!
Folks, this mess starts as early as Kindergarten. Class assignments are divided by race and gender. We just have to keep those numbers even! Heaven forbid we were to ever place children in classrooms based on academic need. The liberals start screaming if anyone even mentions the idea of the flexible tracking of kids based on ability. They had much rather have a kid that doesn’t know basic phonics sit in a class where they are reading novels (even though the kid reads at a first grade level.) If we were to do the unthinkable of placing that child in a room of like ability students and teach them what they need to know, then we might “hurt their self-esteem.” However, they are quite comfortable in wasting billions of tax dollars on grants, studies, and new curriculum development to find out why Johnny can’t read. Everyone with any sense knows why. You can’t stick 24 plus kids of varying ability into the same class and not expect some kids to get lost in the shuffle; ecspecially if they come from single parent, non-supportive homes. The liberals make a fortune at the expense of children and tax-payers. I don’t understand why people can’t see what is so glaringly obvious. Liberals create problems so that they can make money on the “solutions.” Common sense is not a friend to the liberal mentality.
Now there is absolutly no reason in the world that blacks should be any less capable of doing well on any test under the sun. However, first children have got to be taught, not used as “expendable” casulties in the liberal money racquet.
Circular logic never solved any problems.
The problem needs to be addressed in ensuring that all candidates can pass the test. If a group within the candidate pool can’t pass, then for gosh sakes, find out why and address it.
This isn’t any different than college admissions. Or the pressure on high school teachers to change grades because too many students didn’t meet the standard.
Tiffany is spot on. There is a corrolary for this as it affects everyone else, not just in the public sector. If we continue to lower ourselves, and as a byproduct lower the quality of our workers, less productive work will be our mantra. Companies will take their business elsewhere (aka overseas) and find more competent workers who will do a better job for less.
Already the IRS has taken an number of its tax auditing funtions to India. They get a much higher quality work, with less errors than with CPA’s here in the States. And in India, they work for a fraction of the cost.
Unfettered competition is what generates excellence. Lowering the bar, while gaining more competitors, ruins the quality of the game the competitors are playing. Why we continue to do this is maddening.
It is a sad reflection on this country when people who fail examinations are encouraged to sue, rather than encouraged to try harder. But it is hardly surprising when black people are considered victims of oppression, rather than the plain failures other races face up to.
The only people who seem to be suggesting that blacks are not the equals of whites, are the liberals, the same people who claim to be the their champions.
It seems a bit like Animal Farm, all applicants are equal, but some are more equal than others.
I have a nephew who would be perfect recruit. He has no obvious talents, little education and wants to make big money for doing no work. Working for minimum wage is beneath him.
I’ve been advocating hard work, education and persistance. How foolish of me? I should thank Denver for pointing out the error of my ways. I’ve got a new attitude. Da man’s been keeping him down. He should go to Denver and become a fireman. Denver may burn to the ground but at least he won’t be here to sponge off his grandma. How can I get an application for him.
)
So true, and I’m glad you said it.
Denver is also making 7 of its library branches Spanish-language only.
http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3988338,00.html
What the heck is going on there? I thought LA was bad!
We are erasing the concept of competition at an early age.
Examples include kids in public schools and even some private ones cannot keep all of the Easter eggs. They must redistribute their egss to all of the fat, slow and inept kids so they feel good. Note this occures in private schools only. Public schools hate God and don’t allow Easter.
No more playing tag, or dodgeball or any sport that separates the men from the boys and the boys from the girls.
A truly dumbed down society created by a well-planned and orchestrated mission by the left to feminize the men, erase common sense barriers to entry and pacify the keepers of that same common sense.
FDR – I stand corrected, I was going off the number mentioned by another post as opposed to the actual article.
Dell.
You are SPOT ON RIGHT! I don’t know the definition of racism. Please provide it.
There are blacks who could pass the intellectual and physical tests for fire fighter. They just prefer not to be fire fighters. I say we drag them in, kicking and screaming, and force them to become firefighters.
Examples of the Neo-Definitions of Racism:
1. White basketball player wins spot in the starting line-up of a basketball team.
2. La’Quaviante’ never payed attention in school, stayed in detention, never took a book home, graduated, but cannot read.
3. No Black racers in the Iditarod
4. No Black racers in NASCAR
5. No Black Alaskan King Crab fishermen
6. Jimmy the Greek saying that “…slave owners would often match the big people together to give birth to bigger, stronger slaves…”
7. Michael Finklestein gets into Harvard with his 3.85 GPA from a private college prep school, but Tyquan runs faster and has a 2.17 didn’t get in.
8. Connor and Tyrone work at the same place in the same job. Connor comes in at 7 and leaves at 6. Tyrone comes in at 9 and leave at 4. Both have the same educational credentials, but mysteriously connor gets promoted.
9. School outlaws the wearing of confederate flags and N.W.A. and Malcolm X references on school clothing. Black child’s parents sue
10. Pit bull owned by white man bites black child who had been poking stick at the dog and taunting it.
LaShawn: Do you remember when they were passing Prop 48 for college athletes? As I recall, it established a minimum score an athlete had to achieve in order to play as a freshman. The complaint about it was that it discrimated against black athletes. So, the MSM went to Arthur Ashe for a quote, hoping that he’d say it was discriminatory. Ashe said (something like), “I think it’s a bad idea. The minimum score is TOO LOW.” I’d love to hear his voice on issues like this one!
Adding to the insanity, Austin, TX is also reevaluating its standards on the basis that the physical test “discriminates” against women.
From the Austin Chronicle:
http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2005-08-05/pols_naked.html
The Austin Fire Department has indefinitely suspended hiring new firefighters on the heels of controversy surrounding tests used to gauge recruits. A decision from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission stated that AFD’s test of physical abilities could discriminate against women, while others, including the Austin Association of Professional Firefighters, say the written portion of the test is overly vague. The physical exam is used nationwide, and the EEOC’s notice against it could have an impact equally as wide. On the written portion, “this current test had very subjective questioning … We felt like there was a lot of subjectivity and we questioned the validity,” AAPF President Mike Martinez told News 8 Austin. The decision to cease hiring is a move to protect AFD and the city from potential lawsuits. “We knew that we would be opening up a great deal of liability for the department, the city, and the taxpayers,” Fire Chief Jim Evans told the online newsletter In Fact Daily. “We all felt it would not be prudent to proceed at this time.” – Wells Dunbar
#47. Yes, that was discrimination, but it was not racism or race based discrimination. It was to discriminate between those deserving and those who were not.
Still waiting for Dell Gines’ definition of racism. This debate would be so much clearer and meaningful if we only had a clear definition of racism. But libs know that once they actually define it it will be the libs themselves who most fit the definition!
Raymond makes some good points. Let me add a few.
Since libs like to break America up into “communities” lets look at the behavior of some members of those “communities.”
In the “black” community are there more crimes than in the non-black? What about intelligence? Are IQ’s as high? How about self-discipline- Do most members of the “black” community retire well? These racially provocative questions have every right to be answered. But we all know how they would REALLY be addressed; with namecalling and hatred!
I can swim. Taught myself at 12 or 13.
Here are a couple of puzzling and REAL examples of government sponsored racism:
- The Congressional Black Caucus
- The Hispanic Caucus
Sooo which party is it that has racially exclusive little clubs paid for by the tax payers? How are they allowed to exist? Especially since the CBC hasn’t authored a significant bill let alone help one get passed since their inception.
They’re after your kids!
Parental Rights vs. Public Schools
Wednesday, August 10, 2005
By Wendy McElroy
On FOX News
We need some affirmative action in the NBA. From now on all teams should reflect the gorgeous mosaic of the society around them. They must have one middle eastern arab, one far eastern oriental, one hispanic, three african americans (or three african africans or any combination of the two) and six whites.
Its time to right the wrongs that institutional racism has branded on the NBA.
Let’s suppose that some underqualified person becomes a firefighter because of this foolishness and gets hurt or killed because he couldn’t learn some basic skill that a firefighter has to know. What will the people who hired him say then?
#55. They already have that. It is called the WNBA. A league that survives only because it is subsidized by the NBA owners. The league is an abysmal failure based on attendance, TV ratings and merchandising, but because the owners are afraid of lawsuits being filed by the ACLU and NOW, they keep throwing money into the league.
Ever notice that the camera shots during WNBA games never show a shot above the first couple of rows.
The WNBA is sports welfare at its finest.
Raymond brings up an interesting point. He wrote, “Here are a couple of puzzling and REAL examples of government sponsored racism:
- The Congressional Black Caucus
- The Hispanic Caucus”
There are also exclusive minoritiy clubs in public schools and minority media outlets. Now I understand why such institutions were once necessary, but hasn’t our society moved past the need for such exclusivity. I just worry that minorities are falling into a pattern of self-segregation. Continuing separatist institutions just for historical reasons when they serve no real function, is parallel to white resistence to intergration. Maybe there is an aspect of this that I just don’t understand, but I wish we could all start embracing our basic American culture over our regional and ethnic identities.
While I know there are still some aspects of American culture that are exclusively white, it just seems that minorities shoot themselves in the foot by establishing separatist organizations.
Independent, there are separate graduations now at some high schools. Separate proms. Separate dning areas, etc. All of this buffoonery perpetrated by the very minority entites who scream racism at every turn.
Claiming on the one had to want to be a part of the so-called “system” and then doing everything they can to remain separate from or identifying with that very system. The other name for this phenomenon is “keepin’ it real.”
Docjim wrote, “Let’s suppose that some underqualified person becomes a firefighter because of this foolishness and gets hurt or killed because he couldn’t learn some basic skill that a firefighter has to know. What will the people who hired him say then?”
They won’t say anything. They will just quietly settle out of court when the lawsuit comes from the unqualified firefighter’s family. It will be the “establishments” fault for failing to educate the “victim” of the dangers.
Independent wrote:
While I know there are still some aspects of American culture that are exclusively white, it just seems that minorities shoot themselves in the foot by establishing separatist organizations.
So are you saying that it’s acceptable for some institutions to remain primarily white but it’s not OK for certain minority groups to remain primarily minority?? Or is it just in the case of groups that may recieve public funding.
Make up your mind.
I belong to the 2nd oldest black sorority (and largest) in the country. If you are a woman, you are welcome to join regardless of your skin color?? Care to join me?? However, our focus is indeed supporting communities of color. Is that being separatist too??
And furthermore, why is it an issue when black folks choose to assemble. LaShawn had the same issue when someone had a problem with the Conservative Brotherhood that she is a member of. I don’t recall any saying that the Irish-American Club (and I’m just making that up, of course) was separatist.
Ya’ll are going to have get off that because that dog don’t hunt.
Tiffany in Mpls wrote, “I belong to the 2nd oldest black sorority (and largest) in the country. If you are a woman, you are welcome to join regardless of your skin color?? Care to join me?? However, our focus is indeed supporting communities of color. Is that being separatist too??”
Actually Tiffany, I think it is separatist. However, private ventures certainly have that right. I do have a problem with public funding for racially exclusive organizations when it is a one way street. My point really is that we as a society pay too much attention to race. Our governments are obsessed with demographics and quotas. My hope is for a “colorblind” world, not a “color obsessed” world.
Tiffany,
You are a “Duck?” Kool enough. I am going to be nicer to you now. Love those Ladies in Krimson and Kreme. (notice my spelling?
)
My family however is 99% Salmon and Ivy.
Well, Independent, you can certainly hope for a colorblind society because it is a admirable goal..I for one don’t ever think that’s going to happen.
Colorblind society is not realistic, but a decrease in the relevance of color is realistic. People simply want to be around people that look like them. That is not racist. It is human.
I don’t have a problem with being color blind as long as all white people get that way first. Then I will be the first to sign up.
Dell,
A man of your position should know that you can only control your actions.
Counselors, therapists, psychologists will all tell you if you go visit them that the only thing you can do is look at your own behavior.
I look at it as an excuse in your comment #67 (as long as all white people ….).
If you believe that something should be a certain way (as I do) then it’s up to us to lead by example and we can only change how we do things (no excuses). Of course we should also try to pursuade others but to say we won’t change ourselves for the better until “all” white people do is really really opposite of any method that any self-help person will teach you.
“I don’t have a problem with being color blind as long as all white people get that way first.”
So….. at that point, all black people will be color blind? Are you really sure that you won’t settle for a majority of both groups?
Baklava, I am a pragmatic realist. You don’t abdicate power unless the other side agrees to disarm as well. For blacks to play color blind in a society that distinctly is not, has not, and has demonstrated a blatant propensity to treat other groups wrong based upon color would be nothing but dumb.
The individual makes decision in context, I could quote you two hundred and thirty psychological and sociological studies on acculteration, child development, etc. to prove that point. This is the duality of individual responsibility and social responsiblity and the dialectical tension between the two (I learn that phrase in my theology class in ‘97 and I always wanted to use it
).
I’m with you on this one. But what do I know? I’m a white male.
Yes Raymond..I am a “duck’..LOL..Shoulda known you were a Nupe…a whole lot of confidence exudes from you…:)
Tiffany, Raymond, and Dell,
My whole point is that, to quote Raymond, “People simply want to be around people that look like them. That is not racist. It is human.” Are white folks less human and therefore necessarily racist when they tend to “stick together.” Human beings are often “separatist” for perfectly logical reasons other than racism. However, our government makes a habit of playing social engineer to “get the numbers to even out.” My “colorblind” philosophy is about government positions, hiring practices, educational opportunities, not our everyday social interactions. People are always going to want to be around those that share their ways, but I don’t think that should necessarily be a racial thing. There are a lot of folks that comment on this site, but not of my race, that I would rather spend time with than your average white liberal. I’m just saying if we look for our commonalitiy instead of our differences, we can be part of the solution instead of the problem. It just seems silly to promote “black entertainment television,” “The Congressional Black Caucus” and “the ebony club” as if all black Americans speak with one voice, culture and value system. I can guarantee you that I don’t want anyone to start the “White Liberal Coalition” because they will not be representative of me.
Dell wrote, “For blacks to play color blind in a society that distinctly is not,
You’re right. There is institutionalized racism (preferential treatment based on race) and therefore it distinctly is not.
Begs the question… Who should be disarming????
Also doesn’t hold your own self accountable. It is a constant excuse that shifts blame and never allows for individual accountability.
But being that is the case… At what point do you declare “all” are color blind and will also be color blind? Define that time or reality. What indicators do you have to see?
As usual, LaShawn nails it!!! If only the majority of Black Americans followed her thinking along with Star Parker, Larry Elder, Ward Connelly, Armstrong Williams, Walter Williams and many many others, they wouldn’t be continually in the mess they are….kudos to all of you Great Black American Conservatives and your clear thinking……And LaShawn, you are not crazy in the least……you and others are like lone voices crying in the wilderness for sanity for your community that continues to lag badly behind and use the cop out of blaming whitey for everything!
Up here in Canada, we have the same problem but with the Native community……sad sad stuff…and we keep throwing billions of dollars into the reserves and we keep seeing the natives sink further and further……sounds familiar doesn’t it?? When will Black and White Liberals ever learn that they are so incredibly wrong??
Oh if only Black America had for its leadership people like LaShawn instead of the racist Sharpton or the degenerate Jesse Jackson, one could only imagine the mountains your community could climb!?
Regarding swimming specifically, the author you linked to has missed the obvious explanation and grabbed for the racist explanation.
Although lack of access to swim clubs, lessons etc. may indeed explain a small percentage of the difference, the obvious reason is that blacks tend to be natural ’sinkers’ and whites natural ‘floaters’. It is strictly physiological.
In Marine boot camp, at water survival, our DIs had our entire platoon, including about 20 black recruits, assume a stomach down prone position in the water. Almost all the black recruits slowly sunk, while almost all the other recruits remained floating. We were then separated into two different classes, floaters and sinkers, since different water survival techniques would be taught for each group.
Being a floater makes swimming easy, almost a challengeless skill. But if your body tends to sink, instead of float, imagine how much harder it is too simply swim, let alone survive for several hours. There is no casually treading water for a sinker, it is literally sink or swim. The sinkers were taught to utilize techniques where trousers were tied off at the openings and used as flotation devices. Floaters learned that also, but emphasized a ‘deadman’s float’, on the stomach, with an occasional breast stroke (every 40 seconds/as needed) to get a gulp of air. It can be done forever without muscle tiring. In fact our test was 45 minutes with a 12 lb. ‘rifle’ hanging around our necks. The sinkers face much greater challenges in learning to swim and blacks who express a seeming fear of the water are just exercising common sense.
It’s not ability or brains. It’s physiology.
Amen, LaShawn, you speak the truth.
Independent,
I couldn’t agree more with your last comment(74). As a half black, half white woman, I am sick of hearing speakers “representing the black community” talking about what black Americans want. They only know what the members of their organizations claim they want. I’m a college student and every time I see a sign up for the Black Student Union, I feel sick. I don’t want to unite with people of the same race. I want to unite with people that have the same values.
Also, growing up in southern California, which has a “minority majority”, I have seen positive changes in racial differences. We’re not at all colorblind but my friends and I cross racial and ethnic barriers. All my closest friends are black, white, Asian, and Hispanic. We get along great because we focus on what we have in common, and talk about what is different. For my friends and I, we don’t bond based on our race, we bond based on the American culture that we share and learn about the ethnic traditions in each others’ families without seeing it as strange, but a chance for us to learn.
We need to stop summing each other up from one glance. It will probably never happen, but it should be something to strive for, at least in yourself. But, for sure, race-based programs won’t achieve anything positive.
I forgot to mention the reason for the white/float-black/sink factor, as a black Marine explained to me over a barracks backalley game. In keeping with classic Medieval judicial techniques, the water was rejecting the whites as evil and accepting the blacks as good.
Taxpayer funded seperatism should be verbotin….what one chooses to do with one’s private funds is one’s own business. In twenty-four years overseas, living with fifty different nationalities of every color under the rainbow, there was very little emphasis on race, and far more on professional status and common interests.When I arrived back here in the US, I was stunned by the overwhelming emphasis on race, which I believe is being promulgated by white liberals and black activists. My Vietnamese, Indian,Spanish,and Nigerian friends in my neighborhood say that the black people in this neighborhood are overwhelmingly ‘racist’ (their words), so to state that you will become color-blind when white people do is a tremendous conundrum. This is not a white/black problem, and it simply is not true that white people are the only ones with the problem. I simply believe that all people have to do the right thing, no matter what race they are from, because there is too da__ much hate in this world for anybody to be adding to it, if they can help themselves. No excuses. Frankly, I am sick of it.Weirdly, everyone on this blog seems to have reflexively accepted that people naturally want to be around ‘their own kind’ and here I am sitting here with a totally mixed family. It just never occurred to me that color was what determined ‘my own kind’. I was always so much more fixated on ‘brainiac or religious or interests’ stuff. Stupid me…… My minority son-in-laws are appalled by this overly racially conscious society here (having grown up overseas) and keep asking what the fuss is all about.I’ll have to tell them to read the web site so that they can find out that they should prefer to hang out with ‘their own kind’…..They apparently didn’t realize that they were suppose to wait for everyone else to become colorblind first.
#73. All hail Delta Sigma Theta….Oh baby….OO-OOP! LOL!!
Yo baby yo!
I sink, I’m white, and I’m a strong swimmer. I don’t know what that means, but someone around here probably has an explanation.
redbeard: You’re one of the small percentage of ‘good’ whites.
La Shawn, do you know how to swim? Just teasing. I don’t care — though, if you don’t know you should learn. Why do you pull punches all the time? Tell us what you really think!
God bless!
Raymond;
This is totally off subject, but for some reason, I was thinking of you and your irreverent sense of humor when I passed a woman on an Austin street corner, holding up a sign, asking for $$$$. She had one leg amputated,was really cute, and her sign said, “On my last leg!”
DG says “for blacks to play color blind in a society that distinctly is not, has not, and has demonstrated a blatant propensity to treat other groups wrong based on color….”
I wonder, from a pragmatic realist point of view, what bigoted, unkind white people with their ongoing distinct propensity to mistreat groups, would have to do to satisfy your ‘test’.
Mikem said: “redbeard: You’re one of the small percentage of ‘good’ whites.”
Whew! What a relief! That’s a load off my mind.
#79 and #82
Some people sink because of a high bone and muscle mass.
When I was 18, I was put on a diet to gain body fat, becasue at the time I would sink unless treading water in a very vigorous fashion. My naturally high bone mass, combined with 3% body fat (working outdoors in construction, swimming 12-24 laps each morning will do that to you) made me buoy out well under the surface.
Anyway, many black men have a high bone mass relative to the national average, so there are a dispr. number of sinkers in that pop.
> It’s not me, right? It’s them.
> Tell me I’m not losing my mind…
It’s not you. It *is* them. And you’re not losing your mind.
I’ve seen this kind of thing first-hand. Thank you for your voice of reason.
#85. LOL!!!
#76. Be careful Proud Albertan. The only leaders Black people need are the ones they see in the mirror each morning.
We don’t need no stinkin’ leaders.
Raymond, PLEASE consolidate your comments. – Admin
Jan – 1st, where did I mention bigotry and unkindness?
2nd – “When I arrived back here in the US, I was stunned by the overwhelming emphasis on race, which I believe is being promulgated by white liberals and black activists.”
No disrespect, but I don’t think that is an intelligent conclusion. It is promulgated by white people in general irrespective of political affinity. WEB Dubois back in the early 1900’s stated that the greatest problem in the 20th century will be one of the color line. The great Evangelist Billy Graham himself stated racism is the one sin he would eliminate most from America. The fact is racial polarization was created and institutionalized in America unlike in any other nation (all of which have entrenched discrimination in other formats) by virtue of the legacy of slavery and the psuedo-science and heretical Christian doctrine that drew a line between blacks and whites.
The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, and a tree can produce fruit of a different kind.
If you think it is just liberals and activist who continue this racial polarization, I suggest you visit your average church on Sunday.
The article says nothing about the test becoming dumber, or a poorer measure of one’s ability to be a firefighter.
By implication. Obviously whatever cognitive ability measured by the written test is too high for blacks to pass it, so the threshold will have to be lowered so more can pass it. – Admin
I am totally opposed to slashing standards to benefit a specific minority – it is much better to help raise the quailty of candidates. That said, and this is just based on the article so it may be wrong, it sounds like the testing may be inappropriate. Prior to 2000, blacks were able to get hired – what changed? The de-emphasis on, and then elimination of, the physical tests. Call me crazy, but doesn’t physical fitness and ability have a little something to do with one’s ability to be a firefighter? Oh right, those tests were hard on women. This is really the perfect liberal storm isn’t it – remove a legitimate test that women are poor at and instead institute an overly-rigorous intelligence test (firefighting, not brain surgery remember?) that fails what are otherwise well-qualified minority candidates. Brilliant!
Of course now, this is a problem – and will be solved by even more tweaking of standards and pencil-wipes.
La Shawn, you are so right. Dumbing down tests and forgeting past ‘minor’ arrests is racism, impure and simple. Everyone should be offended by this. Next will they come up with signboards which read, “If you are black and can read this, would you like to be a firefighter?”
“By implication. Obviously whatever cognitive ability measured by the written test is too high for blacks to pass it, so the threshold will have to be lowered so more can pass it”
It could be changed. Its not like there is 1 test for ‘cognitive ability.’ There could be 2 different tests, both able to measure fitness for being a firefighter, but have different racial passage rates. The one with the more egalitarian passage rate is obviously preferred.
Woooww, I’ve seen in public education where names have been changed from Dick and Jane to Shaquan and Yolanda. Believe me it doesn’t do a thing if you don’t have phonics and reading comprehension. Just saying…
Back in the early 90s, when I was conducting research for a non-profit on the dumbing down of education, we called it Academic Abuse because of the damage it inflicts upon the educational and emotional growth of our children (particularly our minority children.)
I don’t have trackback, or perhaps I just don’t know how to use it. (Whew, I’m sure glad there is no qualifying test for bloggers.) But, I have made an entry on my blog (linking to this great post) that expounds on the dangers inherent in the Dumbing Down of America, which has been apparent in a myriad of instances.
I intend to begin a regular feature on my blog that points out various occurances and consequences from the Dumbing Down of America. Thanks La Shawn for reminding me of the importance of this topic.
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