Update II (6:25 p.m. EDT): Before you visiting liberals forget your manners (especially during the day while you’re at work), read this post.
While you’re here, visit Arizona Border Watch.
——————————————————
“Immigration is good for the United States … it’s important for us to keep our doors open, but we need to keep an eye on the people coming in. While initially it will be a state problem, eventually it will be a national issue, and education is the best way to deal with it,” drones William Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution. (Source)
Frey, with his PC-speak, understates the “issue” to the point of comedy. A non-white, third-world influx of illegal aliens is bad for America any way you package it. Unlike European immigrants who came to the U.S. to assimilate into society, Mexicans have little interest in adopting the culture or the language.
California is drowning in debt because illegal aliens are taxing the infrastructure. If illegal immigration isn’t halted or dramatically curtailed, American culture will disintegrate at a rapid pace.
Related posts:
- Illegal Aliens and You
- Two Iraqis Caught Near SOUTHERN Border
- There Goes The Neighborhood
- Hiring Illegal Aliens
- Suicide Nation
Update: Bryan Preston:
The problem with this as I see it isn’t necessarily the numbers of immigrants, it is the quality. Immigrants should respect our laws, respect our culture and adopt our values. Otherwise, if they have no interest in doing these things, they should not emigrate. They should stay where they were born. Adopting our values and way of life should be part of the deal that allows them to come here….As anecdotal evidence, I visit a state park in Maryland frequently. We started visiting there last year. One thing we noticed right away this year was that on weekends it transforms into a Spanish-speaking mini-city. This year, the park added Spanish signs here and there and have added bilingual announcements over the loudspeaker. These are young families we are talking about; presumably the children are learning English at school and so forth. As far north as Maryland there shouldn’t be a need for Spanish-language anything. Yet there is.
Steve at ThoughtsOnline wonders if illegal aliens no long fear immigration enforcement.
The truth is that whites in Texas have been a minority for years. The U.S. Census Bureau though just denotes those legally here in Texas.
Comment by Chad Evans — 08.11.05 @ 10:58 am
A cable guy whose parents were legal immigrants from Mexico, told me this week that he is going to retire in Mexico, where he can live like a king on his savings. He said that social programs, school funding,and crime problems, due to immigrants were such a drain on taxpayers that he would not be able to afford to retire in Austin, Texas where he has five children. Say what?
Comment by jan brauner — 08.11.05 @ 11:24 am
Save what American Culture? the ship is taking on water, its going to start sinking soon, time we all started looking for new dry land to plant some roots in.
Comment by Billy — 08.11.05 @ 11:44 am
Chad, even “officially,” Texas has recently become 49.8% “white.” The illegality of many immigrants is only part of the problem. La Shawn touches on the heart of it: failure to “assimilate.” Bi-lingual countries have a poor record of prospering as choesive societies. Being bi-lingual may be a great skill for an individual to possess, but it isn’t a good idea for a country to to recognize more than one “common language.”
Comment by Kevin Funnell — 08.11.05 @ 11:45 am
“time we all started looking for new dry land to plant some roots in.”
Billy, where would that be? I can’t think of a country with a Western “tradition” that isn’t even farther down the path to decline than is the U.S.
Comment by Kevin Funnell — 08.11.05 @ 11:48 am
Mars?
Comment by La Shawn — 08.11.05 @ 11:48 am
What was the point of fighting at the Alamo? To let your land be overwhelmed by poor, unskilled, uneducated invaders from Mexico?
This is an invasion without a shot being fired, unless you include the gun crime that Mexicans bring with them.It amazes me that most Americans appear to be unaware of the scale of the invasion.
We still have not eliminated poverty in this nation, we do not need to import it from Mexico. We have enough problems educating our kids, we do not need to educate Mexico’s kids too. We have plenty of people without adequate medical cover, we don’t need to treat Mexico’s citizens.
Remember it is our taxes that are being spent for the benefit of the citizens of Mexico, which means our own people are denied the benefits they should be entitled to. Mexican illegals are a drain on meagre resources, they consume far more than they contribute, and put Americans, especially black Americans, out of work.
Comment by Shipwrecked — 08.11.05 @ 12:01 pm
California’s debt crisis has less to do with illegals and more to do with former governer Gray Davis’ budgets. They took the tax windfall of the 90s from the dot-com boom and treated it like it was gonna happen every year and radically increased spending. The line “American culture will be destroyed” has been said about every immigrant group including the Irish. The sky isn’t falling chicken little.
Comment by Brian DeSpain — 08.11.05 @ 12:22 pm
Non-white influx? Patrick Buchanon, is that you? I guess we are way past the era of Ronald Reagan’s Color-blind utopia, eh?
Illegal aliens are a factor in California’s debt, but not as you portray. With the run-up in home values and the continued building of the last 3 years, tax coffers are filling up nicely, and the debt will soon be a surplus again.
Should whites really be worried that they are not the statistical majority in California and Texas anymore? Afterall, in terms of wealth, and political power, they remain a majority by a long shot.
Comment by brotherbrown — 08.11.05 @ 12:24 pm
As far as adapting the culture, the first generation is never interested in assimulating - it’s always the 2nd & the third that do the assimulating.
Comment by Brian DeSpain — 08.11.05 @ 12:24 pm
When a civilization actually fights for its future and looses, well there is at least honor in that. But when a civilization complacently allows itself to be destroyed by a self-declared enemy (Islam) and hordes of invaders over its borders, then there is no honor and we deserve to be destroyed. As if that humiliation wasn’t bad enough, we give our own tax dollars over to the government to aid the enemy. Not to mention, a good portion of our country are traitorous enemy sympathizers that go around screaming seditious speach on a regular basis. Can someone help me understand WHAT HAPPENED TO AMERICA? It can’t all be the liberal’s fault. We had to allow this to happen.
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 12:30 pm
Yes, we have enough poor, unskilled uneducated Texans to see us through any shortage of idiots.
Comment by Madmatt — 08.11.05 @ 12:31 pm
“Mexicans have little interest(ed)(sic) in adopting the culture or the language.”
As a son of Mexican immigrants who has lived and worked among blacks, I can assure you that your statement is wildly inaccurate and ignorant. I lived and worked for years in areas that became black and interacted with black people- I can assure you that Mexicans by and large acquire the culture of the United States and its language better than most blacks I have met. Blacks hated the Jews they worked for years ago and they despise the Koreans who work hard to buy small businesses and who are murdered with regularity by blacks. Apparently now blacks have a new target, the one commodity they never run short of. I speak as one who was a liberal Democrat for years and who supported the Civil Rights movement, that despite almost being killed by three black gunmen when I was 16. But I have tired of the constant whining and complaining. I lived every bit as tough a life as any black person but spent little of my energy whining about it- I worked and then I studied, and got myself an education. Get your children to stop producing illegitimate offspring who grow up fatherless and clueless about what a responsible man is, get them away from BET and gangsta rap, get them reading books. Teach them that speaking correctly and learning is not “being white.” And above all, stop blaming other people for your problems.
Controversial stuff! Thanks for alerting me to the typo, “m.” I don’t like being called ignorant, but I’ll allow your provocative comment to stand. I love a little dissention.
- Admin
Comment by m rodriguez — 08.11.05 @ 12:41 pm
TEXAS GOES MAJORITY-MINORITY
And that provokes a fine and justified rant from La Shawn Barber. The newest stats say that Texas joins California, New Mexico and Hawaii as majority-minority (the latter being majority Asian, which makes sense). The problem with this as I…
Trackback by JunkYardBlog — 08.11.05 @ 12:46 pm
What is it about the word “Illegal” that the Dim’s (DIMocrats) can’t seem to get thru their thick craniums into the small brain they carry?
Comment by Dan — 08.11.05 @ 12:52 pm
Another cowardly vulgarian will be reported to his boss today for spreading filth on company time. - Admin
Comment by fred biggles — 08.11.05 @ 12:56 pm
“Unlike European immigrants who came to the U.S. to assimilate into society, Mexicans have little interest in adopting the culture or the language.”
They don’t open Irish pubs, but taquerias!
Comment by woooww — 08.11.05 @ 12:59 pm
So Mexicans and Central Americans aren’t into gang culture? They aren’t into drug culture? They’re not into their own gangsta rap? They all learn English?
They all obey our laws? They all pay taxes? If they commit crimes they don’t flee back across the border? Certainly they don’t kill cops or Border Patrol agents do they?
Comment by Shipwrecked — 08.11.05 @ 1:02 pm
California’s debt crisis has less to do with illegals and more to do with former governer Gray Davis’ budgets.
Actually, the cause of the current California debt crisis has little to do with Gray Davis, and is almost entirely due to Enron.
http://ag.ca.gov/antitrust/energy/
It went down like this: energy was deregulated. This was supposed to lower costs. What it did was the opposite: it enabled a monopoly to hold consumers to ransom, with no competition to turn to.
“When the state’s investor-owned utilities could no longer afford to pay sky-high wholesale prices, the state stepped in to make sure the lights stayed on. Energy companies then proceeded to hold up the state, both in the day-to-day market and in long-term contracts that sought to guarantee hefty profits.
Unfettered by federal energy regulators, power generators and traders plundered California, overcharging ratepayers by some $9 billion. They wreaked havoc on the state’s economy, with some experts putting the total tab at more than $40 billion.”
Comment by jim — 08.11.05 @ 1:07 pm
You know I had to go there M Rodriguez. I am a native Texan, born and raised in Houston, TX until moving 2 years ago. I am not disputing any of what you say about blacks at all in terms of some cultural issues that black folks need to work on.
However, dear, you have it all twisted by thinking blacks have a lock on having children out of wedlock, poor values, and crime.
There are there is a a part of Houston called the Gulfton area off US 59 and Chimney Rock Rd..If you go 3 miles across the freeway the other way, the ritziest mall in town sits there called the Galleria. Go back the other way and you would think you are in Mexico. Day laborers are on several corners. The taquerias and shops there are entirely Spanish. I also attended public school in Houston as well and saw the influx of Spanish speaking Mexican kids who struggle with English and their parents who refused to learn it.
There are several prominent Mexican gangs at area high schools such as Sam Houston High and I remember seeing more than my fair share of pregnant girls at the football games when my school played their school.
Mexican folks aren’t exempt from moral failings. Please believe it. At least black people are here LEGALLY, even if they don’t take advantage of the the opportunity.
Comment by Tiffany In Mpls — 08.11.05 @ 1:08 pm
#11 Independent. Historian Arnold Toynbee said it best: “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.”
#12 MadMatt. So, if we run short of idiots in Texas can we recruit from the general population of Massachusetts? Just asking.
Comment by Kevin Funnell — 08.11.05 @ 1:10 pm
Can someone help me understand WHAT HAPPENED TO AMERICA? It can’t all be the liberal’s fault. We had to allow this to happen.
You’re absolutely right, it’s not “all the liberals fault”. Illegal immigration is encouraged in America, because American businesses love it. They get cheap labor with little to no rights, and they don’t even have to pay benefits, insurance, or social security.
And illegal immigrants come here to make that money. So as long as they’re getting paid, they’ll continue to come in.
If you want to stop this, then you have to pass laws that will hold American companies to task, all the way up to the top, for hiring illegal immigrants.
And if you try that, watch the entire agricultural industry scream.
Comment by jim — 08.11.05 @ 1:12 pm
“A non-white, third-world influx of illegal aliens is bad for America any way you package it”
This says more about the writer than it does about the issue of immigration.
Comment by Ralph — 08.11.05 @ 1:14 pm
#13 Mr. Rodriquez, were your parents legal or illegal immigrants to this country? I don’t speak for La Shawn, but I think one of her points has been that the illegal status of many Mexican and Central and South American immigrants makes it more difficult for them to assimilate. Illegal immigrants tend to stay “underground” and within protected communities of their “own kind.” They do not take full advantage of the institutions of American society (from banking to voting) as do legal immigrants, who do not fear discovery and deportation. Reading La Shawn’s paragraph as a whole, and not isolating that sentence, gives her statement a different meaning.
Comment by Kevin Funnell — 08.11.05 @ 1:21 pm
M. Rodriguez, calm down. I understand your reaction, but Blacks and Browns need to rediscover that common ground we used to have.
We also need to be careful not to adopt other people’s view of one another. Black and Brown youth are both into hip hop and faux-gangsterism. And single parent motherhood and absentee fatherhood is rising in the brown community as well, so be careful not to throw that stone.
The point is, you want what I want, what any other american wants, unfettered access to opportunities, consideration and privacy (at least that is what I want!)
Comment by brotherbrown — 08.11.05 @ 1:21 pm
Jim, we are in complete agreement on this one. Both parties are allowing THIS to happen:
http://www.usoregon.observer.com/topstories/dec04/costs_illegal_alien.php
Honestly, exactly how bad do things have to get before the American people rise up in revolt to take our country back?
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 1:23 pm
Is that state park Greenbriar?
Comment by DarkStar — 08.11.05 @ 1:34 pm
Honestly, exactly how bad do things have to get before the American people rise up in revolt to take our country back?
The Native-Americans were saying the same thing about White “illegal” immigration 500 years ago and look how that turned out.
Comment by meade — 08.11.05 @ 1:36 pm
Sorry, I made a typo in the above link.
http://www.usoregonobserver.com/topstories/dec04/costs_illegal_alien.php
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 1:42 pm
Texas Now a Majority-Minority State
President Bush’s home state of Texas has become the fourth in the union to have more non-whites than whites.
Texas Now a Majority-Minority State (AP)
Texas has become the fourth state to have a non-white majority population, the U.S. Census …
Trackback by Outside The Beltway — 08.11.05 @ 1:50 pm
Meade, I just don’t get folks that think like you. Had you rather see your country brought to its knees so that you can feel morally superior to us unnuanced folks? New civilizations are built at the expense of old civilizations. Old nations die and new ones are formed and there is always death, violence and war involved. I wish the Indian’s fate could have been different, but I’m not going to hate my country for it’s pioneer history. Personally, I think we have got a pretty good thing going here and I would like to fight to keep it. Our ways aren’t perfect, but they are certainly preferable to world wide alternatives. There are LEGAL ways to join the American process. Those that choose to break our laws and the idiot politicians that help them, need to be stopped. It is really that simple.
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 1:56 pm
From the perspective of an upper-middle class Anglo (aka: non-Hispanic Caucasian) resident of the Great State of Texas, I’d like to add:
1) The Mexicans that come to Texas do not come here to sit on their backsides. They come to work themselves silly to make something of themselves and for their families.
2) They fill jobs that otherwise would not be filled, or wouldn’t exist because the native labor pool would price the job out of existence.
3) The acceptance of the matricula consular documents by mainline financial institutions has brought billions of dollars into the Texas and US economy.
4) The “assimilation” argument smacks of unreality. America has ALWAYS changed. Our national acceptance of cultural evolution has facilitated the success of the US in a very Darwinian world. 30 years ago, the percentage of people in the USA outside of the Southwest that had ever eaten a taco was in the single digits. Now the percentage anywhere in the US that HASN’T is in the single digits. How many German-Americans (myself included) have not eaten lasagna? Sushi? Chow mein? Pardon the food examples, but we’re so assimilation-friendly we just don’t notice it.
5) The language argument is also a temporary one. My great-grandparents spoke only German and/or Norwegian. Their children spoke German and English. Their children spoke only English. I’m learning Spanish (because you can get a better deal from Spanish-speaking tradesmen if you speak Spanish). My kids already know a bunch of Spanglish, as well a good sampling of Vietnamese from some other neighbors.
6) Would I prefer legal immigration? Yes. Mostly because of the border security and screening issues. Aside from that, I’d like to see more people with as positive, hard-working attitudes as I’m seeing from the Mexicans that I know.
7) Those of you reading this and thinking “liberal” would be very surprised to know my voting record. What I am is a huge respecter of personal initiative.
Comment by Jack in TX — 08.11.05 @ 1:56 pm
Independent:
And you want to stop the process now because the newcomers don’t look like you and your ancestors?
If you believe in the wonderful properties of America, why are you afraid of Mexicans trying to do what your forefathers did, make a better life for themselves?
These people don’t go straight to the welfare line, they work very hard.
I understand all the flak about illegal immigration, but the main fault is with the businesses that continue to hire them these illegals, and (however passively)encourage them to keep trying to get here. If the jobs were not here, these people would not risk all to get here.
Comment by meade — 08.11.05 @ 2:10 pm
Meade, you don’t follow through with the logic in your comment. Native Americans were overwhelmed by the vast numbers of European immigrants, in this case with superior technology. America is being overwhelmed by a vast Hispanic immigration, that shows no indication of stopping. But this time it is an inferior culture. There is no way these people will build anything to match what Americans, white and black, have achieved.
If you look at organizations such as La Raza, they are not interested in sharing America with blacks or whites. They want everything for their race.
Comment by Shipwrecked — 08.11.05 @ 2:15 pm
The Only way to end illegal immigration is to imprison every employer of illegal immigrants. No jobs, no immigration problem. I will not hold my breath because there is no will to end this source of cheap labor.
As for California, our debt-load is due less to the costs of illegal immigration and more to the fact that we got screwed over by energy deregulation and market manipulation. The cash that flowed out to Enron and others exceeded the amount of money that flowed out of California during the gold rush. Conveniently, the Bush Administration and FERC refused to stop the hemorrhaging. We’d like our money back.
Comment by Laura Strand — 08.11.05 @ 2:21 pm
Jack in TX, I would have to agree about being a fan of the Mexican work ethic and culture. At least here in the agricultural Southeast legal Mexican immigrants are a productive and welcome part of the community. And I’m well aware that latino culture can be assimilated just as well as any other culture. The difference is the past influx of immigrants from other parts of the world came legaly and had to make it on their own. It is inconceivable to me that LEGAL citizens, including latinos, are having their hard earned money stolen from them to pay for those that are breaking the law and have no incentive to assimilate. At any other point in history before the liberal plague ruled, what is happening in our country would be seen as invasion. Not to mention, that keeping our borders open in a time of war is so irresponsible as to be treasonous.
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 2:21 pm
Comparisons with previous generations are inaccurate. Immigration was halted, so immigrants were absorbed into local communities. They were of many languages - never have so many immigrants spoken one language. Previous immigrants were not from across the border, so it is easy to maintain strong cultural ties. I doubt if America has ever taken in so many people who are backward compared to Americans - we are talking about people who mostly have little education, few if any skills, and certainly not the type of immigrant that America needs.
Businesses might want cheap unskilled labor that they can exploit, but that doesn’t help America, and it certainly doesn’t help American labor.
Comment by Shipwrecked — 08.11.05 @ 2:26 pm
Texas is drowning in debt because it has next to no taxes. In better years, that state recieved more than its share of assistance from the federal government, but with the return of deficit spending, federal aid to the states has dried up, and texas can’t afford itself. That woks fine if you believe in the “starve the beast” model of government reform, but most of us like roads and a steady water supply. Call me attached to indoor plumbing.
The income of illegals is just as taxable as anyone else’s.
Comment by 212 — 08.11.05 @ 2:31 pm
Meade wrote, “And you want to stop the process now because the newcomers don’t look like you and your ancestors?”
No Meade, you have it all wrong. I have a great deal of respect for latino culture. I just want them to immigrate to the U.S. legally. I want our borders closed and guarded properly. I want the laws already on the books to be inforced. I want business owners that hire illegals to be severly fined or jailed. I want all illegals on U.S. soil at this moment to be given three months notice to get out of dodge or be physically expeled. If prices rise and our economy takes a hit, then so be it. We can then tell all the out of work wellfare recipients that there are plenty of jobs available now, so get to work or you are on your own. Meade, I recongnize that the majority of Mexican immigrants are hard working folks trying to make a better life for themselves. But we need sane and LEGAL immigration policy in this country. I work hard too, Meade, and I would like to be able to afford health care and to have my hard earned money go for my own children’s futures. OK?
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 2:37 pm
Independent:
What the heck are you talking about?
If American culture and technology is so superior it should have little problem defending itself against this Brown horde.
Organizations like La Raza don’t speak for all Latinos any more than Jerry Falwell speaks for all evangelicals.
Comment by meade — 08.11.05 @ 2:39 pm
212,
Sorry but your facts are incorrect.
There has not been a decrease in federal money going to Texas (OR ANY OTHER STATE).
Texas has a good revenue stream from taxation and one of the many reasons is the moderately healthy economy as opposed to California’s flight of business.
If you were to impose higher tax rates on Texans you might see the same business flight from Texas (leaving the stupid - like here in CA).
Here in CA the smart or able to leave have left (I can’t leave because my daughters are here). There are less doctors per capita because of this reason here. You have more and more people going to fewer doctors because you simply can’t afford to live here and then be punished for earning a living here anymore.
Your facts are wrong and your solution would hurt the economy of texas (and therefore revenue into the government).
Did you know that the 1982 tax rate cuts had nearly a doubling of revenue into the federal government from 550 Billion to 990 billion by 1989? Do you think that raising tax rates always generates a simple linear math equation of that raises revenue by that same amount?
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 2:42 pm
Answer this Meade,
If this country allows more LEGAL immigrants than all other countries combined, then why must we allow ILLEGAL immigrants as well?
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 2:43 pm
Ahhh Meade, you are arguing with the wrong person. I believe your questions are addressed to Shipwrecked. I have written my reply to your previous posts.
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 2:44 pm
Baklava:
I’m not going to defend illegal immigration, would say again that the people we should deal with first is the businesses that continue to hire these people, thereby encouraging more of the same behaviour.
Defending the long expanse of our southern borders is never going to be easy, but if we make it extremely punitive to hire these people would go a long way in stemming the flow.
Comment by meade — 08.11.05 @ 2:51 pm
Meade wrote, “the businesses that continue to hire these people
While I agree with you, I’d ask you which companies do you think are hiring them?
Once established here at all there are many acres and many of those areas here in CA where there are self-supporting illegal immigrants who’ve set up their own businesses and don’t need employment by an American company.
By turning it into a debate about not hiring them ignores the 80%-90% who don’t work for an American company and also ignores the National Security risk of allowing illegal immigrants at all. The entire border needs to be controlled to stop any suitcase nuke type or other Islamofacist.
BTW, Don’t forget to answer the first question in this post.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 3:06 pm
You sure do not seem to know your history. Every immigrant group whether legal or illegal members of our society have first grouped themselves in communities of their own kind, appearing to not have an interest in assimilation. Have you heard of Little Italy or Chinatown? It obviously takes more than a generation to become assimilated to a new culture.
Its quite ignorant to plea this case as a Republican verse Democrat issue, since politicians from both sides are supported by the same lobbyists who make sure this cheap source of labor has a continued flow into their districts.
Since we continue to allow this form of human exploitation to happen in our country, leaving open the door for poor illegals to take a chance at a better life for their children, we miss the point on who is really benefiting from this, every strawberry farm owner, every vinyard in California, etc. But are they asked to pay more to close the gap in our public resources and tax base?
Again with “ignorant?” The issue is not whether people “first grouped” themselves together when they arrive on our shores. That’s natural. But they were ALWAYS interested in learning America’s ways and language.
And you’re right about the Rep/Dem issue. I HATE President Bush’s open-borders-amnesty policy, and I say so on this blog all the time. Perhaps you should read more than just ONE POST before drawing conclusions about where I stand. And don’t give a flying fig about who benefits from border-jumping. Businesses hiring illegal aliens need to be fined and owners threatened with prison. - Admin
Comment by Rocco D'Eugenio — 08.11.05 @ 3:14 pm
It’s called glabalization, people.
With NAFTA and CAFTA we’ve shown it’s best that we (people and corporations) migrate to the area where we can get the most for the least.
GM moves to Mexico and Central America because it’s where they can make the most profit with what they bring to the table (patents, factories, capital, etc). Why shouldn’t someone from these countries come to America where they can make the most profit with what they bring to the table (their labor, i.e. hard work)?
Globalization: Support it or don’t.
Just don’t whine because you support it sometimes!!
Comment by Robert — 08.11.05 @ 3:16 pm
What part of LEGAL are people not understanding?
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 3:22 pm
Who are you talking to Robert?
You wrote, “Why shouldn’t someone from these countries come to America where they can make the most profit with what they bring to the table
If they come LEGALLY our nation will be more secure because we will know who is here.
Explain to us how GM, NAFTA has anything to do with illegal immigration? This is not even telling you whether or not I support NAFTA (I don’t for reasons I’ve mentioned in other posts)
Are you here and now, today, making the allegation that GM is hiring ILLEGAL immigrants. Please if you have proof, report them to the authorities… Sheesh.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 3:26 pm
Independent,
Typical of liberals. Can’t focus to save our/their lives…..
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 3:28 pm
“If you look at organizations such as La Raza, they are not interested in sharing America with blacks or whites. They want everything for their race.”
you mean we’re not going to get smallpox blankets, casinos and reservations? damn!
Comment by woooww — 08.11.05 @ 3:31 pm
Baklava,
Can you really see our political climate so black and white, liberal/conservative…
I would like to know what those current definitions are today, and which politicians define them. A Reagan conservative is not the same as a “Dubya” conservative, just like a Clinton liberal is nothing like a LBJ liberal.
Comment by Rocco D'Eugenio — 08.11.05 @ 3:43 pm
It was just a funny. I see conservatives with lost focus also. But generally liberals are not able to “focus like a laserbeam” as I love listening to Michael Medved say after he asks his question for the forth time to a liberal caller who is unable to answer.
I’ll go into an explanation though of my interpretation. This’ll bore others who’ve read it before: I don’t care about the personalities of Clinton and Bush. I’ll only define liberalism and conservativism:
On a political scale of -10 to +10, -10 equals as big as government can get. This is complete government control, communism, facism, left of socialism, dictatorships, etc and +10 equals anarchy, no government control, mob rule, right of libertarianism (who want a cut in government by 80%.
So what do we have left -9 through +9.
Between -9 and -5 is degrees of socialism where the government steps in and regulates, controls, taxes, owns a whole lot. This is the state of most liberals/Democrats in power. I’m not referring to rank-and-file liberals here who THINK they align themselves with the liberals in power but really don’t if they knew what was going on.
Between +9 and +5 is libertarianism. They want a much weaker government, a cut in government spending by 80% and the government to get out of much of our lives including whether or not drugs is legal.
We have the -4 through +4 left. This is where most Republicans and conservatives are. Moderates are somewhere between -2 and -5. Every time “so-called” moderates speak they are in between the Republicans and the Democrats but in my book the Republicans are between +1 and -4. That puts moderates at -2 through -5.
Yes. Republicans are at +1 through -4. They are generally LEFT of CENTER. They increase government spending every year (even though Democrats make accusations that they are cutting too much spending). They put government in more control of our lives, and they pass more regulations. Republicans (yes Bush and Congress) passed federal spending on Stem cell research and I don’t see where that would even be prescribed by the constitution. Private investment into stem cell research has been FAR more fruitful and they are better equipped to meet a demand for a cure with a supply for a cure for whatever the ailment.
Conservatives are centrist more or less or a little to the right of center. I for one want the government to freeze spending for ten years while we re-prioritize what the government should be spending on (our national defense is one priority). That is centrist conservatism. But guess what the Republicans are to the left of that and they are in power and the conservatives really have no choice but to try to mold Republicans into conservatives or vote for the Republican over the Democrat that runs against the Republican….
Did that help?
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 4:09 pm
La Shawn, as long as our dollars keep pouring back into Mexico, El Presidente Vincente (Zorro) Fox will have no incentive to improve the lives of the Citizens!
Comment by Tom Bosee — 08.11.05 @ 4:22 pm
Some of these illegal immigrants are hired as employees, using their false identification. They pay payroll taxes, but are unable to claim payroll tax refunds. Adding to the state’s coffers.
Comment by christine — 08.11.05 @ 4:25 pm
Illegal aliens pay income taxes and Social Security if the employer does thing correctly. Many employers choose to hire illegal aliens under the table because they not only pay them lower wages but do not match Social Security contributions. The illegal aliens who paid Social Security taxes under a fake SSN will never collect anything from Social Security.
Many of them rent where they live. The landlords pay real estate taxes no matter to whom they rent. Anyone who does not own real estate does not pay real estate taxes directly and does not get a subsidy from the government to lower their costs. Illegal aliens are no different from other renters.
Comment by Earl F. Parrish — 08.11.05 @ 4:30 pm
Earl wrote, “Illegal aliens are no different from other renters.
Yes they are. They are illegal and therefore a risk to our national security. We demand the right to know who is in our country. You have to come here legally.
And why Earl must we allow illegal immigrants when this country allow more LEGAL immigrants than all other countries combined?
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 4:42 pm
“Yes they are. They are illegal and therefore a risk to our national security. We demand the right to know who is in our country. You have to come here legally.”
then lets let them in legally.
Comment by woooww — 08.11.05 @ 4:43 pm
2 problems:
1) We are already as generous as allowing more legal immigrants than all other countires comibined. What’s the push for expanding that. What’s the justification?
2) How do you make people who are breaking the law, stop breaking the law and do something the way you want them to do it. Come here legally.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 4:49 pm
You got people breaking into your house at night and you’re standing there at the door saying, “I’ve got the door open for you. Generally I open it for those who knock. Why are you breaking the law? What am I doing wrong here”.
Typical liberal.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 4:52 pm
Once again, Lashawn has traveled the news of the heartland and found a story in which the peril of affirmative action demeans the black community.
Great Job!
Now, how about using that same effort to expose the peril of white privilege. Yeah! Let’s show how that undermines the hard working white folks who want to believe that every road to success in America is based on merit and not race.
As a white woman, I want to believe this; but I can’t ignore the accounts in which blacks, qualified, are discriminated against. I know that we are not going to be naive as to think that those cases don’t exist. That every white person has achieved employment and success on merit alone.
Lashawn never examines cases of white privilege, and she wonders why she is called a sellout. I can’t speak for black americans, but I believe that they don’t see a balance on your blog. I must agree.
If we are going to examine race preferences, then let’s not stop with the ones given to blacks. Let’s expose and exaimine those preferences given to whites. This way, we can have a complete picture of race dynamics in America and a fair/candid discussion.
Comment by kathy — 08.11.05 @ 4:57 pm
I choose to handle the issue from a completely different point of view, Kathy, one that doesn’t get much play in MSM. However, I urge you to start your own blog. We could be the ying and yang bloggers, each covering the same issue from both sides. I choose to devote my limited time and energy to chastising blacks and admonishing them to get the dependency cobwebs out of their heads!
I become very irritated with people who tell me what to blog about and how to blog, so don’t do it again if you want to continue commenting at LBC. The fact that you’re white AND telling me how to blog about these issues makes me even angrier.
Comment by La Shawn — 08.11.05 @ 5:07 pm
Let us know what that blog’s URL is whenever you find average white people getting that institutionalized “preferential treatment”. Ok Kathy !
By the way, pick up the book “Creating Equal” by Ward Connerly.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 5:26 pm
Oh “white privilege” thy name is liberal. Only a white liberal would consider it their “privilege” to come onto another person’s site to be insulting and tell them what to do. Liberal mentality has taken indecent “privileges” with our country long enough.
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 5:48 pm
I understand being against illegal immigration, but how exactly is it going to “bring our society to its knees,” as has been suggested in several posts here? We’re a nation of immigrants, from Plymouth Rock in 1620 to the Tex-Mex border today.
The main objection to all this seems to be that a good deal of Mexican immigration is illegal! Please. The INS could send engraved invitations to Mexicans coming over the border and you’d still be steamed.
This is racism, plain and simple. Re-read post 34 if you have any doubts. This is exactly the same kind of racism that was leveled at my Irish ancestors, and my Italian ones, and my Jewish ones. Every large wave of immigration has had to deal with this kind of crap from generation after generation of Archie Bunkers - small-minded people who fear change, and don’t like the direction “their” country is moving in. Never mind that Latinos have been in this country longer than it’s been a country.
Unless every one of your ancestors was either here when Columbus got here, or kidnapped from Africa, someone in your family - and if you’re white, everyone in your family - came over here trying to make a better life for themself and their family. And that’s exactly what these immigrants are doing.
Your hatred and fear of them has little to do with their immigration being illegal - I’m sure my great-grandparents broke a few laws when they were trying to get out of Eastern Europe before Hitler could get in. And thank God they did.
Comment by schroeder — 08.11.05 @ 5:49 pm
“1) We are already as generous as allowing more legal immigrants than all other countires comibined. What’s the push for expanding that. What’s the justification?”
the standard justifications, they come here, work, contribute, etc…
Comment by woooww — 08.11.05 @ 6:05 pm
…takes one for the team by reading LaShawn Barber so we don’t have to. Look what he found:A non-white, third-world influx of illegal aliens is bad for America a […]
Pingback by Catch -- catch.com — 08.11.05 @ 6:15 pm
#34. Meade:
Inferior culture? Explain that please.
Comment by UppityMonkey — 08.11.05 @ 6:23 pm
Schroeder wrote #65 wrote, ““bring our society to its knees,â€
Literary license maybe. But it definitely costs Californians more in taxes and CA’s “citizens” receive less services. There are several groups have estimated how much more outflow (government expenditures) goes towards services for illegal immigrants than comes in from them and they are quite staggering figures. In just CA it’s estimated to be at about 10% of CA’s budget (about 10 Billion dollars). Maybe CA’s not at it’s knees yet but when there is less doctors per capita and less services rendered per legal citizen and the school system is ranked as poor as it is you can QUIBBLE with the “to it’s knees” part or realize that there IS A PROBLEM that needs solving. …. especially because of the NATIONAL SECURITY implications
Schroeder, you bring the argument way down. There isn’t a need for that kind of debate. It is a right of our nation to protect this country. We allow more LEGAL immigrants than all other countries combined and don’t need to allow the UNSAFE practice of “illegal” immigration which has national security implications as well as implications on every state’s budget and the federal budget.
We are a generous nation and don’t need you to go around throwing out accusations of racism. Look in the mirror.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 6:26 pm
#66 Wooow,
So it’s agreed then? We can close the border and the only immigrants allowed in the country are the ones who come here legally.
I’m glad you agree….
May our generous nation continue safely.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 6:28 pm
Uppity.
A lefty asking a lefty to explain…
Bu HA HA HA HA
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 6:30 pm
La Shawn, Now that the Earth is warming up, Antarctica will be more accessible than Mars. Care to tailor a flag and make a claim on the land?
I admit that it’s kind of scary to see all these people moving in who do not speak my language. I think they should concentrate on assimilating. I hope that once Mexico’s economy evens out some of them will return to their beloved homelands.
Comment by RepJ — 08.11.05 @ 6:34 pm
Schroeder wrote, “I understand being against illegal immigration, but how exactly is it going to “bring our society to its knees,†as has been suggested in several posts here?
Because Schroeder our nation’s circumstances have changed since the last big wave of European immigration. At that time immigrants didn’t have a bloated, liberal, institutionalized welfare system to fall back on when they entered the country. They didn’t have a nationalized policy of catering to their language preference. They were forced to assimilate and make something of themselves because they knew there would be great opportunity but also hardship and cultural sacrifice. I know Mexicans work hard and are mostly here to make better lives for themselves, but until we cut off the illegal benifits for both the immigrants and those businesses that hire them, our legal citizens will have to pick up the extra financial burden. Not to mention that until only legal immigration is allowed those illegals and their families will remain in a cycle of virtual slave labor and government dependence.
Did I mention that terrorist threat problem? Wouldn’t it seem prudent to know who is coming into our country and where they are located? Suitcase-nukes and biological and chemical weopons would be pretty easy to get by an indifferent border patrol, don’t you think?
These are practical and very pressing issues and racism has nothing to do with it. Everytime I hear the word racism used when discussing this issue, I know that person has just not been paying attention.
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 6:38 pm
My biggest fear about immigration (besides security concerns), is the liberal response to it….new programs;medicaid,bi-lingual schools, etc..If liberals would just leave everyone alone, I think we would ALL find a common ground…(not just brown and black, as brotherbrown stated). By the way, in Saudi Arabia, where I lived for decades as a guest worker (We all knew we had to leave at some point.), I saw thousands of individuals from Third World countries come to work, without their families and get paid relatively little. Yet, they were eventually able to go back to Nepal, India, Sri Lanka, (or wherever) and start businesses and buy beautiful homes, and take wonderful care of their families, as their small salaries were worth many times more in their countries than they would have been in ours. They were so happy about their successes….I guess nobody told them they were being exploited…….Where would we all be without liberals to keep us informed about our tragedies.
Comment by jan brauner — 08.11.05 @ 6:42 pm
Nice try, woooww, but your crude disguise didn’t work. I track something more sophisticated that IP addesses. - Admin
Comment by oh — 08.11.05 @ 6:52 pm
I just saw a parallel.
Here’s Woooww saying why don’t we allow them in legally. But here they keep coming in illegally when we already have a process to come in legally, they just need to follow the rules.
Then Woooww comes along and doesn’t follow the rules….
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 7:04 pm
We have a right to protect our nation and La Shawn has a right to control her blog’s content.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 7:05 pm
Shipwrecked writes:
>>>Meade, you don’t follow through with the logic in your comment. Native Americans were overwhelmed by the vast numbers of European immigrants, in this case with superior technology. America is being overwhelmed by a vast Hispanic immigration, that shows no indication of stopping. But this time it is an inferior culture.”
Since when does superior technology equate to a superior culture? A more efficient device for killing people doesn’t make the killer more highly cultured than the victim.
Baklava writes:
>>>Let us know what that blog’s URL is whenever you find average white people getting that institutionalized “preferential treatmentâ€. Ok Kathy !”
Why don’t you try the original draft of the US Constitution for starters, Bak.
>>>Slavery is seen in the Constitution in a few key places. The first is in the Enumeration Clause, where representatives are apportioned. Each state is given a number of representatives based on its population - in that population, slaves, called “other persons,” are counted as three-fifths of a whole person. This compromise was hard-fought, with Northerners wishing that slaves, legally property, but uncounted, much as mules and horses are uncounted. Southerners, however, well aware of the high proportion of slaves to the total population in their states, wanted them counted as whole persons despite their legal status. The three-fifths number was a ratio used by the Congress in contemporary legislation and was agreed upon with little debate.
In Article 1, Section 9, Congress is limited, expressly, from prohibiting the “Importation” of slaves, before 1808. The slave trade was a bone of contention for many, with some who supported slavery abhorring the slave trade. The 1808 date, a compromise of 20 years, allowed the slave trade to continue, but placed a date-certain on its survival. Congress eventually passed a law outlawing the slave trade that became effective on January 1, 1808.
The Fugitive Slave Clause is the last mention. In it, a problem that slave states had with extradition of escaped slaves was resolved. The laws of one state, the clause says, cannot excuse a person from “Service or Labour” in another state. The clause expressly requires that the state in which an escapee is found deliver the slave to the state he escaped from “on Claim of the Party.”
And that’s just the FOUNDING FATHERS, Bak. You KNOW I can post an INEXHAUSTIBLE amount of modern discrimination against minorities. I’ve only touched the surface in the past.
Of course I recognize the fear of many white Americans of assimilation by non-whites. It was ILLEGAL for nearly two centuries for blacks and whites to marry in many states. That, to me is the REAL nature of assimilation, and not the winks, nods and pleasantries spoken about on this thread.
Moreover, many white Americans should get over their fear of a beige America, because it’s INEVITABLE according to population demographics studies.
That clock is ticking folks…
–Cobra
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Zm0AupDa2vcJ:www.usconstitution.net/consttop_slav.html+%22US+Constitution%22,+blacks&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
I had to move the link further down in the post. It was messing with the formatting. - Admin
Comment by Cobra — 08.11.05 @ 7:15 pm
I have to confess I see a lot of humor in that sliding scale definition of liberals and conservatives.
Stated definitions aside, in the 27 years I have been a voter, Governments at all levels have grown no matter who was at the helm or controlled the legislative bodies. The only difference was where the spending emphasis was. So the terms “liberal” and “conservative” are not really all that meaningful.
Check this out:
CONSERVATIVE:
resistant to change
opposed to liberal reforms
LIBERAL:
having political or social views favoring reform and progress
tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition
Comment by brotherbrown — 08.11.05 @ 7:19 pm
Cobra dwells in the past and writes, “Why don’t you try the original draft of the US Constitution for starters”
Relevant to today’s discussion are we?
Cobra drones on with, “You KNOW I can post an INEXHAUSTIBLE amount of modern discrimination against minorities.
And I’ve asked you before. When will you finally be happy? What has to happen politically. You haven’t answered. You changed the discussion to your family and friends and whatever. You’ll never be happy. WE CAN’T CHANGE THE PAST COBRA! It’ll bug you till your death Cobra. Because YOU have not identified when you’ll be finally be happy. What has to happen. Revenge? 200 years of white slavery? What Cobra? Do you think we are all stupid? We aren’t. We choose to view the future differently from you. You will be bugged by the past forever and we are moving on. With our without ya. Because liberals will NOT win with the rhetoric that you’ve been spewing. Sorry. They just won’t.
Cobra racistly write, “Moreover, many white Americans should get over their fear of a beige America
Sorry. My problem is the illegality and national security problems that are involved with ILLEGAL immigration. I was married to a non-white and in a relationship with her for over 11 years. For you Cobra to go preaching around as if you know what we think is … well…. arrogant.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 7:23 pm
Hey Cobra, we agree again! The influx of brown, but more specifically, “unassimilating” foreigners, helped bring down the Roman Empire, and it’s doing the same to the good old USA as we speak. The scourge, for all intents and purposes, is irreversible.
Comment by La Shawn — 08.11.05 @ 7:25 pm
Brotherbrown the dictionary definitions do not apply to the political reality.
Are you liberal if you “have political or social views favoring reform and progress tolerant of change” with respect to reforming social security?
No. Liberals want the big government solutions. Conservatives want “reform” and Liberals are “resisting the change”. Because liberals want to resist the change FROM the big government solution.
My government teacher in school pretty well taught me over 18 years ago that the dictionary defintion doesn’t apply. Newbies into politics learn it out of school….
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 7:27 pm
Yes they are. They are illegal and therefore a risk to our national security. We demand the right to know who is in our country. You have to come here legally.
The 9/11 hijackers, and the 1996 WTC bombers, were almost all here legally. In fact, in both cases, they were actually on CIA watch lists.
The biggest threat to our security is straight-up government incompetence.
Comment by jim — 08.11.05 @ 7:49 pm
No. Liberals want the big government solutions. Conservatives want “reform†and Liberals are “resisting the changeâ€. Because liberals want to resist the change FROM the big government solution.
Considering how much the government in size, power scope *and* budget under Bush, would you say then that Bush is a conservative, or a liberal?
Comment by jim — 08.11.05 @ 7:51 pm
A couple points:
1) Illegal immigration to the US is spurred by trade agreements that favor corporate entities - specifically NAFTA and CAFTA.
Lets look at the case of Guatemala, where about 5 million people subsist on plots of corn. Besides playing a leading role in their culture and religion, corn is like currency for the Maya. As subsistence farmers, they use it to procure those things they don’t produce for themselves (ie, those expensive, non-generic medications under CAFTA). So dumping heavily subsidized US corn on Guatemala is like devaluing their currency.
A 100 lb bag of corn sells in Guatemala City for approximately $11. That same bag goes for just over $4 in the US. Even with added transportation costs, the price difference will obliterate the Guatemalan corn market - and with it, an entire culture built around corn cultivation.
Free trade advocates would argue that the US market will now be open to Guatemalan agricultural products, and so growers should diversify into those niches in which they have a “comparative advantage” - ie, tropical fruits, coffee, etc (nevermind for a moment that almost all Central American agricultural products already have duty free access without CAFTA). As with most free trade notions, it all sounds very neat and peachy when flying at about 40,000 ft.
But back on the ground, the reality is that the specialized export market in tropical fruits and coffee requires large tracts of high quality soils and a lot of mechanization. The Maya generally don’t have access to either. Instead, over centuries the Maya have carefully bred strains of corn that will thrive on steep, rocky, highland soils unsuitable for growing most other crops. Diversification into the export market is not an option for them.
Unable to support their families once corn prices crash in the wake of CAFTA, most Maya subsistence farmers will be forced to sell their plots and join the teaming masses in the urban centers looking for wage labor - or immigrate to the US. This swelling of the labor pool is one reason why wages in Mexico overall have fallen under NAFTA. In all, almost 2 million indigenous farmers in Mexico were forced from their land after NAFTA was implemented. Furthermore, illegal immigration from Mexico has skyrocketed since NAFTA was implemented.
As a consequence of CAFTA, roughly 5 million displaced Guatemalans will be headed to a sweatshop near you. If we wish to curtail immigration, we need to rethink these corporate welfare bills masquerading as “free trade” agreements.
2) Most scholarly studies done on the economic impact of illegal immigrantion on the US show that immigration is at worse a wash, and probably a net positive benefit. It is all too easy to blame our economic woes on immigrants. There are many reasons why our country is no longer so prosperous, and they have very little to do with illegal immigration. Politicians are stirring up anti-immigrant sentiments as a means to deflect blame for a mismanaged, corrupt corporate economy. This is a tactic that has been used by the right in many other countries for a long long time (the Nazis, for example, chose to blame outside immigrants for all of their woes. It was politically very successful, and people never seem to be able to resist falling for this tried and true tactic).
For example: it is ridiculous to say that “California is drowning in debt because illegal immigrants are taxing the infrastructure”. The reality is that deregulation of the energy industry was probably the largest single contributor to California’s debt woes - it is estimated that Enron’s creation and manipulation of a power crisis in California cost the state $30 *billion* in revenues. Additionally, the debt being run up in Washington for illegal wars and other wasteful endeavors is largely being passed on to the States.
Yes, illegal immigrants put additional pressure on clinics, public schools, law enforcement, etc. But for every immigrant here to “take advantage of the system”, there are many many more who, despite their illegal status, are paying into the tax system and working their asses off. They toil in the hot sun to pick your lettuce, wash your toilets, landscape your yard, move your furniture, and scrub the dishes you just ate off of at the local diner. They are to be hated for this, and blamed for all of our economic woes?
We have this stereotype in the US of the “lazy Mexican”, sitting under his wide sombrero taking a siesta. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Anybody who knows illegal immigrants knows that they generally work extremely hard, and for very long hours. It is the immigrant that reinvigorates the American work ethic. By contrast, most “native born” gringos are much more concerned with having as much leisure time as possible than they are of working hard.
Folks who have such hatred for immigrants are just plain misinformed - and worse still, their ignorance is being manipulated by right-wing politicians and TV blow-hards with a self-interest in fanning such hatred.
Right. It is the same immigrant who is taxing the system to the point where hospitals in CA are shutting down because uninsured illegal aliens are driving them into bankruptcy. Glad you acknowledged that. It is the same immigrant I see living on welfare and here illegally, while I’m working my rear off as a LEGAL citizen. I don’t care how hard they work. They jumped the porous border while others came here the hard way: through the proper legal channels. So don’t preach to me about “hatred.” And I certainly hope that “hatred for immigrants” remark wasn’t directed toward me. - Admin
Comment by Aaron — 08.11.05 @ 7:57 pm
Jim wrote, “Considering how much the government in size, power scope *and* budget under Bush, would you say then that Bush is a conservative, or a liberal?”
Good question, I would say Bush is a social conservative, but a fiscal liberal. I’ve supported about 70 percent of his policy, but I hope in ‘08 we can get a hard-core conservative to really start shaking things up.
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 8:00 pm
I think I’ve mentioned and others have mentioned on this very website close to 1,000 times that Bush is to the left of center. He’s not a centrist. He’s a liberal. He’s not as far left as Democrats are but there in lies the Democrat delimna. They have to lie about the president, say he’s extreme when he isn’t, did I say lie (make up stuff like a mythical ban on stem cell research when he’s been the first president to offer federal spending on stem cell research to the dismay of conservatives like myself.
Bush has expanded the government at every turn. With the Department of Education and the NCLB act that he wrote with Kennedy who later blasted it as not spending enough.
With the Prescription Drug program that Democrats blast as not doing enough.
Shoot. Liberals might as well wake up and realize this is as good as it’s gettin for them because liberals/Democrats are SO FAAAAR left that nothing makes them happy. Aint that right Cobra?
Hey. Andy, RedBeard, where are you fellows. I need relief so I can drive home.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 8:00 pm
Or at least a centrist….
Bush is to the left of center and it would be good if we can finally get a centrist as a president. Maybe there can be a period of healing.
Then again the left will get even more insanely mad….
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 8:01 pm
Glad to see you here Independent…
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 8:03 pm
It’s good to be wanted, Bak.
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 8:09 pm
Let me see if I have this straight. Black person after black person on this blog expresses concerns about immigration, and Cobra scoffs at whites for being afraid of immigration.
Comment by jan brauner — 08.11.05 @ 8:13 pm
Can’t Mexico fix its problem. Why doesn’t anyone address why so many people are fleeing Mexico? Why should the United States or the UN or any other global social organization force Mexico to make a reasonable economic base for its citizen. Every day hundreds of Mexicans are fleeing their homeland, many starving and dying because of the environment. Why should we be a bandaid for their disenfranchised country? Should every single Mexican now move to the US? Does anyone see anything wrong with that? This is about more than illegal immigration, which should cease to exist. If we know they are illegal, why haven’t they been deported?
There is a huge problem here.
Comment by Layla — 08.11.05 @ 8:13 pm
The immigration issue is one where he show his true corporate conservative colors. He [Bush] could stop the illegals from coming quickly if he just pushed through policy that would fine employers $1000 per illegal they hire. Use the money to finance the extra immigration officers needed to enforce such an effort.
With no jobs to lure them here, immigrants would be alot less likely to come. Liberals couldn’t legitimately whine about such a policy, but Bush’s money people would complain that he was cutting into their profits by taking away their sweatshop workforce. That’s why it would never happen- not because he’s left of center like some of you [DELETED] are saying.
Bush has the worst of conservative traits and the worst of liberal traits. He is a corporatist jack*** who’s got two main goals: keep the richest Americans happy at the expense of the poorest Americans - and - Keep the [DELETED] fundamentalists voting against their own best interest by drawing attention to abortion and gay marriage.
Comment by Sean O'Brien — 08.11.05 @ 8:16 pm
Aaron wrote, “Illegal immigration to the US is spurred by trade agreements ”
Care to explain why illegal immigration was present before NAFTA and CAFTA? Care to explain why there was a surge after an amnesty and a talked about amnesty?
I live in CA and follow the politics daily. You wrote, “The reality is that deregulation of the energy industry was probably the largest single contributor to California’s debt woes
The deregulation was not deregulation it was over regulation. It was the CA state overregulating and then the press called it deregulation and everybody now says deregulation when it was the state overregulating..
Here are some points:
1) CA doesn’t have enough energy producing plants. CA consumers during peak hours were using more than 20% more energy than the energy produced in their own state. In order to pull in the needed energy energy had to be purchased from energy plants in other states.
2) For all of the accusations that went around about energy companies pillaging CA IT WAS CA that made the law that set up things this way. It cracks me up. The buyers of energy were prohibited from entering into long term contracts to purchase bulk energy at lower rates. Consequently when peak hours was going on there was a lot of demand and little supply and what happens when that happens class? Correct. Prices go up. A whole lot.
3) CA didn’t approve an energy plant being built for over 15 years. See point #1.
4) Gray Davis (a Democrat) purchased 60 Billion dollars worth of energy using money we didn’t have in order to basically do what the CA state said companies couldn’t do (buy long term contracts of energy guaranteeing lower energy rates.) Guess what though he didn’t negotiate very well. He was the one who paid more for energy than we had to pay. Period.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 8:22 pm
Sean,
What “large” rich companies are hiring illegal immigrants. If you have the proof to back up your claim then PLEASE report these companies.
Shoot, Walmart now has their own staff do their floors instead of paying contractors to do it because the contracting company was employing illegal immigrants. And since Walmart has the deep pockets (yet can’t control another companies HR department) and were fined I think 11 million dollars, Walmart changed so that won’t happen anymore.
Comment by Baklava — 08.11.05 @ 8:26 pm
#71. Baklava:
Actually, Baklava, I made a mistake. Maybe if you had read more carefully, you would have realized it, and brought it to my attention, before pouncing on me. In any case, my response should have been directed toward Shipwreck’s post (#34… I referenced the right post, but directed my comments toward the wrong author). So is it still hysterically funny to you that I asked him to explain what he meant by “inferior culture”?
FYI: Just because Meade and I both appear to be on the liberal side of the fence here, it doesn’t mean that we think alike on each and every issue (I do happen to think that we have a problem with illegal immigration) any more than it would be safe to assume that every conservative here agrees on every issue. That would be ridiculous, don’t you think?
Comment by UppityMonkey — 08.11.05 @ 8:28 pm
No profanity. If you want to comment on LBC, read the comment policy:
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2004/09/07/policy/ - Admin
Comment by Aaron — 08.11.05 @ 8:50 pm
Sean, I agree that Bush has done this country a disservice with his “immigration policy.” However, does it have to be because of sheer corporate greed. Could it have something to do with the left constantly screaming about “racism,” “failing economy,” or “loss of civil liberties.” This particular; what did you call me… oh yes, “moron,” thinks the man is more of a winnie that a corporate greed monger. I think the Republicans and the Democrats are both more than willing to sell out the security of our country for the hispanic vote. What do you think?
Now about this crack, “…the [deleted] fundamentalists voting against their own best interest by drawing attention to abortion and gay marriage.” I assume you and the rest of the left believe they know what the majority of Americans consider to be in their best interest. No matter what you ASSUME Sean, this IS and always has been a Christian nation. I’d rather be dirt poor than live in the left’s version of America. Earthly comforts are fleeting Sean, but God’s kingdom is eternal. The left wants a secular paradise on Earth but you will never have it. It’s been said, “that the road to hell is built on good intentions.” The left has been awfully busy these last fifty years and the road has drawn so close I can smell the brimstone. It’s time for a little demolition work. You’ll be hearing from myself and a few other “morons” in ‘06 and ‘08.
Comment by Independent — 08.11.05 @ 8:57 pm
Admin -
“Right. It is the same immigrant who is taxing the system to the point where hospitals in CA are shutting down because uninsured illegal aliens are driving them into bankruptcy. Glad you acknowledged that. It is the same immigrant I see living on welfare and here illegally, while I’m working my rear off as a LEGAL citizen. I don’t care how hard they work. They jumped the porous border while others came here the hard way: through the proper legal channels. So don’t preach to me about “hatred.†And I certainly hope that “hatred for immigrants†remark wasn’t directed toward me.
First of all, I work for the largest hospital network in California. I can tell you that it isn’t illegal immigrants that are the primary cause of financial difficulties for hospitals in CA. Rather, it is the greed of the health insurance industry which reimburses as little as possible for medical procedures to hospitals, while charging exorbitant rates for health insurance. Because of these extremely high rates, almost 50 million LEGAL US citizens are not able to get insurance, which is an enormous burden on our healthcare system.
While hospitals are feeling the crunch, the insurance industry are making out like bandits. Go to any financial website and check out the enormous profits being raked in by the insurance industry - far and above what most other industry sectors are making. The insurance industry are nothing but blood sucking middle men with good connections in Washington who add to the enormous administrative costs to providing care in the country. Other industrialized countries manage to deliver better care at a fraction of the cost per person. And guess what? These countries take on far more immigrants per capita than the US does!
So yes, there is a healthcare crisis in this country. And you are getting ripped off, Mr Admin. But it is not the illegal immigrants that are the ones stealing you blind and causing this crisis.
All this is NOT to say that people are justified in coming here illegally. I think we need to strengthen our border protections and work on legal avenues. But our economic woes are not the fault of immigrants! You are just barking up the wrong tree here. To say they are all sitting around collecting welfare is grossly misinformed, and playing into a racist stereotype. All the economic data show that for every dollar illegals cost the US economy, another dollar or more is added by the role immigrants play in the economy.
You can deny it all you want, but there is hatred going here. Again, I am not for illegal immigration - but your anger is misdirected.
Take a look at the “economic data” on what illegal immigration is costing, too: http://www.fairus.org. And just because you use caps, it doesn’t mean you’re right, that illegal immigration is “not the fault of immigrants.” It’s George Bush’s, businesses that hire illegals, AND the illegals’ fault. - Admin
Comment by Aaron — 08.11.05 @ 9:16 pm
Admin -
In regards to comment 97: I don’t recall having used profanity in that post - but I’ll take your word for it that I may have allowed one to slip in. For that I apologize - it is not my desire nor comon practice to use profanity. Could you please repost that one with the offending word blanked out?
Again, my apologies.
The comment is gone. Zapped. - Admin
Comment by Aaron — 08.11.05 @ 9:26 pm
Admin -
Sorry to hear my comment is zapped - I will recompose a response to baklava later (and course, will be sure to properly avoid any profanity).
In reponse to your comment “And just because you use caps, it doesn’t mean you’re right, that illegal immigration is “not the fault of immigrants.— :
I never said anywhere that “illegal immigration is not the fault of immigrants.” Read my post again, more carefully this time. What I said was that the economic woes of CA are not the fault of illegal immigrants. Again, illegal immigration is wrong - on that we agree. I am just disputing your assertion that said illegal immigration is to blame for everything you say it is to blame for.
Sure, you can post a link to all kinds of sites dedicated to immigrant paranoia that focus solely on the *costs* of illegal immigration. However, the cost side is only one side of the coin, my friend. Every economic activity has costs *and* benefits. Scholarly studies by economists (as opposed to one-sided sites like fairus.org with a clear anti-immigrant agenda) show that the costs and benefits of illegal immigration generally cancel each other out. At worst it is a wash. So go find other reasons to obsess over for why the economy is not performing to your liking, and stop blaming immigrants.
Comment by Aaron — 08.11.05 @ 10:14 pm
The reason that there are so many uninsured people in America is so much more complex than greedy insurance companies. Experts have estimated that less than eight million of these individuals truly cannot afford insurance, and that even many of these could pay with a restructuring of the way health care is purchased. Government intervention in our healthcare, third-party provider systems, over-regulation, work-place provided insurance that is provided with pre-tax income, young people who perceive themselves as healthy and who would prefer to spend their money elsewhere,government crowdout of private insurance….all of these contribute to escalating costs. Reducing the problem to corporate greed is just a worn out cliche from the left. It doesn’t work, and can’t be used to solve a single problem.
Comment by jan brauner — 08.11.05 @ 10:24 pm
Jan -
Of course, you are right that the issue of uninsured is complex. But my post was referring more to why hospitals are feeling an economic crunch these days, and not so much to why there are so many uninsured in this country. The US healthcare system generally is not working for 1) hospitals, 2) patients, 3) doctors. The only big winners the way our current healthcare system is structured are the health insurers, who really just syphon money out of everyone’s pockets.
A truly worn out cliche is reducing the problem to government intervention (just as worn out as blaming immigrants). Other industrialized nations have single-payer plans. They end up spending less than half of what we do per capita on healthcare - in our supposedly efficient free market system - and by all available measures, their populace is far healthier. Are there problems with other systems? Of course. But generally, they do a better job for less. We are getting ripped off here in the US - and none of that has to do with immigrants.
Comment by Aaron — 08.11.05 @ 10:39 pm
Aaron;
Thanks for the considerate and thoughtful reply. I got up at four am so I’m flaky…sorry.
We don’t have an efficient free market system here in America, as 90,000,000 people receive their medical care from the government. Also, I hope you didn’t construe my remarks as reducing the problem to government intervention, as that is only a small part of the problem. On the other hand, I have lived in a number of countries with government provided care, some highy touted, which were horribly inadequate.Quebec has just declared theirs to be unconstitutional. I had to be flown to the US for high tech care following a serious accident and a bout of cancer. Often, our mortality rates in the US are a misleading indicator of our level of treatment availability and quality, and are due to lifestyle choices, soco-economic factors, and so on…again quite complex.Ultimately, a consumer driven system would be far more beneficial. It would take an essay to delineate my thoughts and would probably bore you to death, but I don’t think we are being ‘ripped off’ as much as we have created an unwieldy inefficient cumbersome system, that is actually escalating prices, in an ironies of ironies. I’ll have to learn how to write up a document and provide a link…..in case anyone on earth cares what I think.
Comment by jan brauner — 08.12.05 @ 12:09 am
Another Texan weighing in. I’ve lived in Texas since I was 3 years old.
1) There have always been Mexican immigrants and the families do over time assimilate. Some of my Mexican-American friends have Mexican-American ancestors who fought at the Alamo — on the TX side. The older waves of immigrants have children who don’t speak Spanish, or who learned it in school just like I did.
2) One reason people in TX generally don’t get as worked up over illegal immigrants is that we see illegal immigrants around town every day. Literally. I mean it. If you’re trying to get trees trimmed or new tiles in the kitchen, it’s difficult to find a contractor who is employing legal labor. I expect that the workers are paid in cash so that there’s no record for the taxman to follow. Does it amount to turning a blind eye? Yes. Why? LOGISTICS. There are probably a MILLION or more illegal immigrants in Texas. How in the world do you suggest arresting and deporting a MILLION people?
3) LOGISTICS. I think 10% of the agonizing over the border is truly political angst, and the other 90% is LOGISTICS — do you have any idea how vast that border is? How many hundreds on hundreds of miles go through no-man’s-land? Nobody has a truly practical idea of how to do it. You can’t legitimately landmine the border — sneaking into the country isn’t a capital offense and there’s not really this “imminent danger” thing that would justify taking a life. Besides, when someone does own the border land through the middle of nowhere, they’re likely to be raising cattle on it. The ranchers have a hard enough time making it without the government landmining their land and their cattle being blown up.
4) Illegals from “countries of concern” have been rising. Last estimate I saw, if you ran the numbers, made it likely that a thousand or more illegal Muslim immigrants may have entered the country over the Mexican border already THIS YEAR.
5) I know a lady who was married to an illegal Muslim immigrant who had sneaked in across the Mexican border. He didn’t run his own business. He worked at the MOSQUE. Anyone paying attention? Guess who’s hiding the illegal Muslim immigrants — it’s the legal Muslim immigrants. Shocker, ey?
Take care & God bless
WF
Comment by WeekendFisher — 08.12.05 @ 1:55 am
I don’t know about you guys but this fits the classic definition of invasion too me, but because the Mexicans aren’t using weapons we stupidly sit by and let them just run across the border unchecked.
As I have mentioned before, not only have they invaded this nation, they are also stealing our sovereignty. They have placed their own political leaders, changed the official language of English, lowered educational standards, brought in drugs and crime and generally replaced the American culture with their own brand.
Case in point: Mexican illegals installed a Mexican mayor in on of the largest and most storied cities in America, Los Angeles. Which city is next to turn in to a garbage scow Northern Mexican city?
For those of you adult enough to handle hard truths, let me provide you with some easy solutions to this immigration problem. Combinations of either would be light years more effective than what is in place now.
- Increase the number of US Border Patrol Agents
- Open new or move military bases down closer to the border and form Rapid Response Teams to be called to intercept illegals coming across the border. Once the the illegals are intercepted, place them in hot, desert open air tent cities with only the basics (See Sheriff Joe Arpaio).
- Give the prisoners the option of forced detail work or go home. Those who won’t go home will remian indefinitley in the desert tent cities and work on government project at prison minimums until they just can’t take it anymore and go home. Never will they be allowed to enter the general US population.
- All pregnant women who cross the border will be deported with their Mexican child. No citizenship granted to the children of illegals.
- Create a three phased buffer zone between the Mexican border line and the US border line:
Phase 1 Area: Will contain the planting of thick, prickly cactus-like plants and filled with sharp rocks, deep holes to deter vehicles and tire and foot puncturing caltrops.
Phase 2 Area: A clear 2-3 mile flat open area covered in bright, white sand. Ulimited visibility with clearly marked fire sectors.
Phase 3 Area leading to border: A gauntlet area of concertina wire, anti-personnel and vehicle mines open only at legal choke points where Mexican applicanst who have approched the borde ron approved and safe routes can sit down and fill out paperwork for legal entry and then safely return home to await and answer.
- Prosecution of US companies who hire illegal aliens with fines starting in the 6 figure range.
- Random and location unspecific raids on houses, businesses or locations where illegals work or play and simply making them disappear without warning and reappear somewhere in Mexico.
I can continue to be quite creative, but I know this is quite disturbing to those of you who don’t really want a solution. Don’t freak upon reading this. This is a solution that REAL American would discuss and entertain. For those of you who just like to talk about solutions, just move on to the next post. Save your breath on this one.
Comment by Raymond — 08.12.05 @ 8:51 am
I’m seeing a lot of racism wrapped in flag-waving. I agree with the point made that laws need to be passed to hold employer companies accountable for hiring illegal immigrants (or at least start enforcing those that already exist.)
That being said, does it really matter that much how much of you community is white? I’m seeing a lot of posts about problem with immigrants, but non-white immigrants seem to be targeted.
500 years ago there were no whites in what is now the USA. At least those you’re complaining about are coming across with resumes instead of smallpox-infected blankets.
You know, if you don’t like Texas anymore, I hear that Ireland is very nice (and white as well, if that’s important to you.)
DanB
Comment by Dan Beaulieu — 08.12.05 @ 10:14 am
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by the blatant racist and xenophobia reflected in many of the posts about this issue. I 100% agree that illegal immigration and America’s fundamental lack of border security is a serious issue. I however take serious issue with the hatred directed at Latino immigrants to this country.
The majority of which are just trying to build better lives for their families, just like the Europeans who came here a century ago. Just like today’s Mexican immigrants, most of them were unskilled, illiterate and viewed as a “burden” to society. The only difference is that the U.S. decided it needed immigration “quotas” and limits once the majority of newcommers became brown and black instead of European.
My ancestors didn’t have much choice in coming to the U.S., they were forced, but I find it extremely hypocritical when some people fault and scapegoat Mexicans for doing the exact same thing that their grandparents and great grandparents did.
I work in the real estate development business and I’ve constantly seen immigrant Mexican construction crews outwork their American (white and black) counterparts for far less in wages and zero in benefits.
Comment by jrizzo — 08.12.05 @ 10:20 am
You can’t stop them without hurting the economy. So what do you do?
My recommendation:
Get a work program of some sort. Make it easy to get, and make it where they are here legally, but dont have all the benefits of citizenship, but yet can work (if work is available). Make it where you can track these people and keep up with them. Make it where if they break certain laws, they get deported. Make it where they have to pull their weight (in work) and actually pay for any govt benefit they get (some sort of insurance/tax program they all have to pay into). If they dont pull their weight, they risk deportation. Make it where they can work towards citizenship, but make sure they actually qualify before giving it to them.
Make huge penalties on companies that hire people without proper documentation (and enforce them). Since you made it easy for people to get in to work, it shouldnt be hard for people/businesses to find “legal” laborers.
If someone doesnt have documentation, it means they are a criminal, or a true f-up, so you hire at your own risk, AND you run the risk of big penalties. Since foreign laborers can easily get a legal work ID, it would be easy to get someone legal, so obviously, as an employer you will hire the legal over illegal.
This way, you keep track of who is here. You have a way of weeding out the criminal element. You make sure the ones who are here are good hard-working, contributing people. You send back the screw-ups and drains on society.
The way it is now, there is no weeding out process. No taxes are being collected on most of these laborers. They drain our taxes by draining our social programs (education, healthcare, etc).
Comment by go1 — 08.12.05 @ 10:50 am
Dan B.
Once again, there’s the reflexive accusation about racism, and for some reason, it is attributed to whites despite the fact that the largest percentage of those writing on this blog are black. One of the biggest problems that I see in America is that no one can even have a dialogue about a perceived problem anymore without someone accusing them of being racist. I think that most of the people’s comments that I read expressed concern about high rates of illegal immigration. Aspects of immigration are very very good (I have two new Hispanic immigrant son-in-laws and a son-in-law to be), and parts are very very bad (such as burdened school systems and hospitals, and security) We should be able to discuss the situation without being labeled as racist. And, given that most of the writers on this blog are not white, why several people have brought up the ridiculous notion that people are disturbed about immigration because they want to keep America white shows more about their predjudiices than anything. When there was a huge influx of Irish immigrants (which my family was), white people were extremely concerned. Their concerns were socio-economic in nature. MAKING EVERYTHING INTO A RACE ISSUE JUST DOESN’T FLY1111111111111111111111
Comment by jan brauner — 08.12.05 @ 11:04 am
No one hates Mexicans. W