As you may know, John H. Johnson, founder of Ebony magazine, died last week. Columnist Leonard Pitts “goes there” by asking and answering the question, “Why is there an Ebony? He writes:
Black life, black striving and black aspiration were conspicuous by their absence from the nation’s newspapers and magazines. As far as mainstream media were concerned, the only blacks who existed were “hulking negro brutes” (they were always hulking and “Negro” was always lowercase) who were forever preying on virginal white women.
For black people, mainstream media were mind poison. Ebony – and the news weekly Jet, which came along in 1951 — was an antidote. It emphasized black upward mobility and mainstream success, its stories always illustrated by carefully posed photos of Negroes Doing Well….
So the answer to the question is simple. There is an Ebony because there was a need. And, thank goodness, a man who saw that need and refused to let it go unfilled. (Source)
Pitts doesn’t answer the (hypothetical?) white guy’s question directly, but we get the point. I have no problem with black publications (or groups) per se, as long as the purpose is positive and uplifting. If they’re created simply as platforms to constantly complain, grievance shop, and whine about “racism,” I don’t (and won’t) support them.
I’m solidly against taxpayer-supported separatist groups. Private businesses supporting such groups? OK with me.
Blacks traditionally have been excluded from the mainstream, yes, but it doesn’t mean we have cause to protest or complain about publications that appeal to whites, even if the appeal is blatant. In a capitalist system, we have the freedom and opportunity to meet the market’s demand. John Johnson saw a need and filled it. That’s the beauty of human imagination, ingenuity, and will, qualities that should be stressed in the black community loudly and often.
Leave the whining back on the cotton fields where it belongs.
{ 105 comments }
Just imagine if someone were to apply to the FCC to begin broadcasting “White Entertainment Channel.” He’d be crucified! I credit Mr. Johnson for seeing a need and filling it. A good capitalist in that respect.
But until we reach the day that a “white” channel is greeted with the same enthusiasm as a “black” or “latino” channel our concepts of race will always be muddled. And to avoid confusion I mean a WHITE channel geared toward white people. Not the masses. To be clear there are none. What’s up with that?
Hi LaShawn,
Good story! Keep up the good work.
Shannon
Thanks, Shannon! Good to hear from after all these months.
Pajamazon, the double standard and rationalizing is often rather stunning, isn’t it?
Pajamzon, I am going to disagree with you on this one.
There is no “white” TV?
Then what do you call:
“Friends”
“Beverly Hills 90210″
“Lawrence Welk”
“Will and Grace”
“VIP”
“Alias”
“Roseanne”
“Dawson’s Creek”
“Survivor”
DEFINITELY “Fear Factor”
Most reality shows
“MTV”
“Lost”
“ABC”
“NBC”
“CBS”
“CNBC”
“FOX”
HBO
Showtime
Cinemax
Nickleodean for sure
Disney Channel
etc…..
I think us black folk have BET and UPN….yup that’s it
There was an Ivory magazine. It was called Life Magazine
Is it that the word “Black” is in the title? There are places you can go in Southern California where if you don’t read mandarin or cantonese, you will have no idea what the business is. Are the businesses excluding those of us who don’t read the language, or is it targeting it’s primary customer.
Anyone can watch BET, you don’t need a secret password contained in a secret decoder ring. Cable TV is full of interest-oriented programming. Lifetime, WE, Spanish-Language–the nation is more than black or white.
AHAHAHAHA…Ray said “UPN”. Classic!
Raymond, you’re wrong. Those shows you mentioned as white shows are not called “white.” If the day every comes that there is white this or white that, it will represent a new attitude towards race relations, and not a good one. The Miss America pagent is mostly white, but there have been black winners. All the shows have black people on them now and then. You may think there’s not enough black representation, but that is not the same as a show calling itself the “white” whatever. Maybe you say, well they might as well call themselves, the “white” news, etc. I don’t agree. There is a good case to be made for not calling everything by the worse name, even if it involves hypocrisy.
The more entrepreneurship the better…..
The more people see the benefits of a capitalist economy the better.
The more people understand the reasons for prosperity and a good economy and jobs the better.
The more people see how detrimental it is to punish the successful with punitive taxes the better.
It is fine to have people “tithe” or contribute to society by levying taxes. It just seems that liberals want to “target” those who succeed with “well-intentioned” ideas of helping the poor and or [insert good idea here] but why would someone want to put in that much effort or hard work or go through all the hoops that the government throws at you if it’ll only be met by putting a target on your wallet.
There should be some benefit to hard work and perserverance and the more liberals ask the question “What does someone “need” with a million dollars” the more I see they don’t understand what makes this country great.
That millionaire purchasing yachts and recreational equipment and donating to charity and buying big plasma screens and what not is what keeps this country technologically advanced and jobs being created.
If we dumb down this country to only what people need like food, sheltor, clothing, etc then there will be more poor and unemployed like France’s 10% unemployment rate and we won’t even be able to help all of the other countries we do help (as in the billions of dollars we give to other countries).
Capitalism is the people deciding who gets what resources. We have implemented necessary anti-monopoly laws and safety nets (to help the non-able bodied) and OSHA regulations and even EEOC regulations and large corporations have ongoing governmental audits to make sure accounting is done properly. What liberals don’t understand about capitalism is how much good this country can do because of our economic system. The alternative of the government deciding who gets what resources is not as successful at any time in the world’s history. Period.
Thumbs up for Raymond!
I think “black” in the title of anything with black people as its target audience always bothers some people, mainly since you don’t see it as much from other groups. As the earlier comment noted, there is the Cantonese restaraunt that never states they are marketing to those that speak that language. Likewise, there is no Chinese history month or Indian Entertainment Television.
I agree with La Shawn that if there is a need in the marketplace for a race-specific item, and someone steps up and fills the need, no problem. If there is not a need, don’t worry about it. The problem is when the government tells us that there is a need and they are going to take a little more out of our paychecks each month to fill it.
BTW, My post # 10 does not state but should that there are abuses made by the government and corporations. And…. Congress continues to pass more and more and more Regulations each year that really makes businesses struggle to comply with.
And once a governing body is created it seems to take on a life of it’s own creating crisis after crisis that we need to throw more money at.
Yes. Reforms (this is why the dictionary definition of conservativism is irrelevant) need to be made to reform things from the status quo to make sure that laws and regulations are understood and followed but not too burdensome. This way law breakers can be held accountable to the fullest extent and businesses can go on employing people for productive work and America’s prosperity can be greater realized.
Is there anyone else here who is insulted everytime someone celebrates some silly form of mediocrity by saying “So and so is the first black to do…..”
It so minimizes the accomplishment by saying we are the first to do something. What? Just because a person is Black, was that a reason to think they couldn’t run a touchdown, hit a homerun, type a letter, win an election, tie a shoelace, speak an entire sentence in English, fly a plane, drive a car, swim a lap, etc…..geesh.
To me, that is no different than someone saying they got where they were because of Affirmative Action. Even if true, don’t you think it sounds DUMB to tell someone that you are somehowe equal yet you needed a SPECIAL program for assitance because you were too dumb to do it on your own?
That is how all of this sounds to me.
Being the first to achieve a MAJOR accomplishment may have been something to celebrate a few years after slavery but why is one surprised when an educated man or woman (never mind the skin color) does something simple? What makes it so dadgum special just because they were Black?
James wrote, “Likewise, there is no Chinese history month or Indian Entertainment Television.”
Where I am that’s channel 26 or 27 on cable. I pause on it sometimes…. though I don’t understand what’s said.
Brotherbrown wrote, “Is it that the word “Black†is in the title?”
You know in our extremely race sensitive country, that really might be the reason that these venues make some uncomfortable. Our society that was once overwhelmingly dominated by white culture has been yielding to public pressure to become more inclusive of other cultures. Even when it is obvious that certain venues are still clearly outlets for white culture, the venues are subtle about it. We’ve all seen examples of minority tokenism in white dominated programing. However, publications and networks that shout out loud and clear that they are for “blacks,” are anything but subtle.
So, we have the basically white dominated outlets pretending to be all inclusive and we have the black dominated outlets saying blatently that we’re for blacks and we don’t care if you like it or not. I just think it is funny that white controled media fall all over themselves trying to give the impression of racial neutrality (even if it’s false,) when black controlled media frankly says, “I don’t give a damn, my dear.”
If tomorrow a network came on the air named “White Entertainment Television” would our society say well given the fact that 69.1 percent of the population are white that’s capitalism at it’s finest or would there be protests and charges of racism?
Blacks may still be underreprresented in the media, but outlets like BET get to play by different rules than all other outlets. Until we all are allowed to play by the same rules, I can’t help but feel that all is not well and we are going in the wrong direction on a one-way street.
The media has indeed listened to the call for more race inclusion. In fact they have done so to the point of absurdity.
Now, I know this is going to make some of you more sensitive types angry, but bear with the truth from which I speaketh.
You can’t turn on the TV these days without seeing a some form of political correctness. A woman beating up 250lb muscle bound men, or commanding male combat units, multi-racial Special Operations forces (spec ops units are approx. 97% white), female Rangers (BASIC) and SEALS, Black “Honeymooners” and a Black James West in “The Wild Wild West” etc.
It seems like Hollyweird is more bent on making sure the Combat Ninja Navy SEAL Killer Squad has the right mix of women, latinos and women than actually approaching anything near reality…er uh wait…it is Hollywood. It is not reality…..never mind.
Lord, Lord..I am agreeing with Raymond…Surely the trumpets will sound.
I’ve also been agreeing with LaShawn lately, too..LOL!!!
Good post!
Don’t fight it Tiff. It’s a Krimson and Kreme thing sweetie!
You know we can have that affect on each others’ members. LOL!!
BET plays by different rules?
That’s funny. And untrue. In its earliest days, BET made most of it’s money selling airtime to infomercials that were not particularly directed to the Black consumer. Viacom bought it precisely because it played by the “regular rules” and made money.
Note to self: “Black” in the title causes knee-jerk reactions by those who feel excluded.
That is exactly my point Raymond. The “white establishment,” make fools of themselves trying to be as PC as possible, but there is not one thing PC about a channel called “Black Entertainment Television.” If I’ve got to live in a country where apparently everything is my fault (I’m white), then I ought to at least get my money’s worth with a little racist, white-targeted entertainment.
Before I get blasted that was sarcasm to make a point.
#21 gotcha LOL
I don’t feel excluded Brotherbrown. I feel tired of living in a nation filled with double standards.
Raymond
Yes we will disagree on this one. NONE of those shows or networks are geared toward whites. They ALL are geared toward the masses-Which in many places is white. But it’s not the same thing. The point I hoped to make is cultural. In America for the last 50 years or so there has been an effort to deny that there ever was “white culture”. But if you go back a ways, to say 18th century Vienna, there really was a culture of and for whites. Many Americans today confuse American Culture with white culture. But American Culture is ANYTHING but white! It really is a mossiac of many influences. Black Entertainment Television supports programming geared to a racial group. Univision does the same thing. Who is making ANY programming for WHITE PEOPLE? Don’t get me wrong. I’m not sure there is actually any demand for one. I just don’t care for the assumption that American culture hasn’t adopted so many of the words, beliefs, foods, holidays and traditions of it’s various members. It has. Otherwise we would be a white nation.
pajamazon, I think what we are discussing is really a semantic issue. Don’t be fooled. The producers of these shows purchase shows based on whom they will sell to and they use demographic terms like “White female ages 17-29″ when they want to target a specific audience. Yes, it is white TV. Not because of race, but because of who watches that crap.
You would be niave however to not know that a producer or network is only going to be able to judge shows based on the content as it appeals to their own. How else can you explain people actually laughing at Monty Pyton and British humor like Benny Hill? The only reason I watched Benny Hill was…..can’t say here, but some shows are indeed “white.”
Why did the Cosby Show sell? Because it was “whitenized.” Unless you can show me a doctor and lawyer-partner mother and father of 5 kids who are at home when their children get home from school.
FANTASY LAND!
The only real Black show as a contrast to that one was “Good Times” and it was targeted at Black folk.
There are quite a few double standards. Why do you feel “Black Entertainment Television” represents a double stardard?
Pajamazon asks, “Who is making ANY programming for WHITE PEOPLE?”
Maybe someone else can answer this better, but “Friends” and “Will and Grace” certainly were not produced with brotherbrown in mind.
I do admit that Black Entertainment is one of the DUMBEST names for a network, but I can’t knock the financial results. The title is not intelligent, but then again I can make like charges about people who watch BET for more than 3 minutes a week.
Raymond, why would a doctor and lawyer partner mother with five kids, being home when their kids get home from school constitute an example of whitenized tv. I don’t know of any white people in that situation. None. Nada.
I was thinking about going there when I commented on the relative placement on John Johnson obituaries in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, St. Paul Pioneer-Press, and USA Today. John Johnson was a proto-blogger, writing about things off the media radar.
jan, I suppose you have a valid point there in that NO ONE could do that with those type of jobs and have so much leisure time. The point I was trying to make is that people complained so much about the “Good Times” characters and all of the other buffoonish Black characters on TV that the TV studios had to “norm” the people on this so called Black sitcom
Goodness gracious me, that’s a good post. I had always wondered about that (why there were all these “black” publications and no “white” ones. Non-racist white ones that is.) Very interesting post, and interesting comments too.
hmmm…
Re: Cosby Show
I grew up with a fella who’s parents (black) were a doctor and an engineer, with 4 kids. They weren’t home when the kids got home, so the kids went to their dad’s practice and played with tongue depressors or made sling shots from surgical rubber until their mom picked them up. That probably wouldn’t count, I guess.
While the Huxtables were hardly common (and aside from Roseanne, which TV family was?), they weren’t a complete fantasy, or at least any more than the Cleavers, the Keatons or any other sitcom family.
Check your e-mail. – Admin
La Shawn
Thanks for the info on Ebony and its founder.
Raymond, are you saying that there is an authentic ‘black’ behavior that is differentiated from white behavior? What I observed in Saudi Arabia, where my kids were hanging out with kids from all over the world was that they all were adapted to their expatriate experience, and very similar in their behavior, whether they were from Thailand, Africa, Poland, Holland, Puerto Rico, America, or wherever. I’m not getting this other stuff. I guess what I’m saying is that people tend to behave in a fashion consistent with their surroundings and culture, not their skin color.
Just off the top of my head:
Good Times, 227, Amen, The Jefferson’s, Sanford and Son, The Flip Wilson Show, Different Strokes, The Cosby Show, Benson, Fresh Prince and What’s Happening are all examples of shows either featuring nearly all black actors or intended for a black audience. With the exception of a couple shows, these programs are no more representative of “real life” for blacks than your average white fare is for whites. It’s supposed to be fantasy. It’s all just dubious entertainment targeted to demographics for one thing – money, money, money, MONEY. So please folks, let’s stop pretending that any media outlet irregardless of the race of the network execs give a flip about “social consciousness.” Black entertainment sells to both black and white audiences. White liberal self-hate programming sells to all demographics as well. BET is a perfectly fine name as far as I’m concerned. At least it’s honest to its audience, which is a lot more than I can say for the rest of the media. When I start to see a network out there that doesn’t try to make me feel like racist dirt for even daring to be born white, then I’ll say we are getting someplace.
#34. You are correct, but I never have and do not ever make references to any so called innate bahviors linked to skin color, but let’s be real. Enculturation does create a set of behaviors that are passed around and down such that they become one group’s calling card or stereotype where life imitates art.
No jan, I am NOT saying the behavior is genetic or race specific. It is not born-in. It is learned. Nutured and not natured.
You cannot deny that when you saw “Cleopatra Jones”, “The Mack” or “Superfly” you said black movie and when you saw “Out of Africa”, “The Piano” and “The Ya Ya Sisterhood of the Traveling Chocolate Fried Green Dukes of Hazzard Pants” you didn’t say white movie. LOL!!
I’m not understanding why the non-black folks are getting bent out of shape. Ebony was born out of the times that people lived in. Now that the Civil Rights Act has been passed and black folks got some rights, ya’ll act like it should be disbanded. Get OVER YOURSELVES. Just because something has black in the title, doesn’t mean it’s anti-white.
And as far as living in a country with double standards, guess what, black folks didn’t create that. Mr. Johnson succeeded inspite of it though and that’s a lesson that needs to be learned and remembered yesterday, today and in the future.
Once again good post!
LOL Raymond, you speak the truth!!! God bless ya.
But actually when I saw the promos for the above mentioned wastes of money and time, I thought “Stupid Movie.” Stupidity and mediocrity are truly the great race equalizers.
Awwwww sookie sookie now. I agree with Tiffany this time….for the most part. I do think some people who name entities with their skin color do so to stick a finger in the eye of the white man simply kuz they can get away with it.
Raymond, You’re not going to believe this, but I didn’t see one single one of the movies you mentioned. We also didn’t have any television for twenty-four years overseas,so….I am relieved that you agree that behavior is learned, and that’s why I was curious when you said the Cosby’s behavior had to be ‘normed’, because I had professional black friends that acted just like them (other than they had no free time). You had me confused about your thoughts, that’s all. I am not saying that I wouldn’t look at a show and recognize stereotypes,or that life doesn’t imitate art and vice versa….Conversely, I don’t think it necessarily has to be that way, and actually find the rigorous adherence to the stereotypical notions in the media to be tiresome. I guess that’s why I haven’t watched any of the movies you mentioned.
Raymond
I’ve been away, but your reference to the Cosby show being for whites is incorrect. Sorry, but the default position for non-black, non-asian, or non-latino is NOT white! It is somewhere else. Cosby was certainly non-black by any reasonable standard today. But that doesn’t mean the show was “white’ or “for whites. I would call it “TV land.” Where everything’s fake. To say that by taking away a show’s “blackness” you are adding to it’s “whiteness” isn’t the right conclusion. By taking away a show’s “blackness” one merely adds to it’s mediocrity.
Tiffany wrote, “And as far as living in a country with double standards, guess what, black folks didn’t create that.”
I agree with you. Double standards have always existed since the conception of our nation and for the longest time whites reaped the rewards. However, at first the civil rights movement fought to end double standards. I’m all about that, myself. But then the liberal population fought and succeded in institutionalizing double standards once again – just in a different direction. So are you saying that double standards are fine, but the problem was always with who received the benifits? I’m certainly not saying white folks are the victims of anything. I have a good life and can take care of myself, but I’ll be danged if it doesn’t seem we as a society got lost somewhere along the way. Is it so wrong to hope for us to go forward instead of in circles?
Pajamzon,
Cosby was financed by whites, approved by white executive producers and senior VPs, it was targeted as a “cross over” (You know what that means right? )audience. It was tested based on how white people reacted to it and other reasons controlled by whites. Some key black did have some creative say so but that is about it.
I would say that makes the fall back position in this case, in THIS country a “white” position for lack of a more appropriate term. Last I checked the credits, there were no Asian names associated with delivering the show.
Race. It is so fascinating on this Earth. Raymond, you seem to have captured the flavor of this post. And LaShawn did too. Of course she did she post it. But we had no choice but to develop our own institutions when we were and are being shut out of white institutions. Now the country clubs of old didn’t put ‘white; in the names but they sure were. Same with neighborhoods and race mixing. We got the message loud and clear for centuries. Now there are still black and white communities in virtually every city in the U.S. Isn’t it actually an interesting American phenomenon. The black community in America is as American as apple pie. And if you want to put black in the title, then pass me another slice.
I didnt read this entire post but I have to say that I think most people missed the point of La Shawn’s post about Ebony/Jet.
Very simply, the market for black faces and black culture was not being served and in this capitalist system an untapped market gets what it wants! Its really a beautiful thing.
So many people complaining about a double standard, but the truth is, if White Entertainment Television was formed, who would watch it? Who would want to be associated with such a network – and what kind of programming would the network air?
Just to give an example of white-targeted entertainment already being broadcast without the pretense of whiteness – a show called Laguna Beach on MTV. Boring, boring, boring, but apparently the show is one of the most popular on the network.
This is just conjecture on my part, but the reason why the show, as utterly uninteresting as it is, is so popular is because
1)All the people therein are white and conspicuously so and
2)the imagery is that of an idealized white American culture that appeals to many bourgeoisie “Abercrombie and Fitch” young white Americans.
Honestly, this kind of thing is what is good about America, I have no problem with it, I just wont watch – even though there are a few shows that I have watched from time to time that was obviously targeted to a white audience like The O.C. Very weird phenomenon this race thing is, very American too!
Raymond
Not to beat a dead horse but…….
I agree with your # 44- “for lack of a more appropriate term.”
You made my point.
I have no problem with the segmentation of the media–it’s not a civil rights issue, it’s an economic opportunity. There’s plenty of religious media segmentation, why not ethnic?
On a sort-of-side note, I did some work for a successful black businessman, and I had to contact black publications. They were some of the nicest people I ever spoke with–even when they rejected the story.
brotherbrown said:
———
Maybe someone else can answer this better, but “Friends†and “Will and Grace†certainly were not produced with brotherbrown in mind.
———
Got news for you bb, they weren’t produced with me in mind either. I guess I’m not the right kind of “white” they were targeting.
My seventeen year old just told me that her favorite two movies were ‘Selena’and ‘Save the Last Dance’. My two favorites were ‘Joy Luck Club’ and ‘House of Flying Daggers’,and my son’s said his was ‘The Matrix’ and ‘Hero’. My other three kids aren’t here, but I know my husband loved ‘The Jungle Book’ and Anne of Green Gables’. Make a great movie, black, white, Latino, Asian, or otherwise, and the audience will be there….My kids were laughing when I said that many contend that white people watch shows that are ‘conspicuously white’ simply because they want to watch white faces.
My daughter just walked in and told me that she loved ‘Why do Fools Fall In Love?’ and ‘You Got Served’and ‘Sister Act’. She said that Laguna Beach was the worst show she has ever seen, but she thinks that people watch it because the people in it are beautiful (totally fake and made up), and it is like a tabloid (full of junk). So much for that theory (#46)….
Hey #51, you could be totally right, but I live in LA and I know exactly what Laguna Beach the city is all about – a bunch of white people a cliche beachtown lifestyle.
I could be wrong, but I honestly think that having a show like Laguna Beach contain literally nothing but white faces is exactly because of the fact that there is an audience out there that wants to see a bunch of white people in the situation that those kids are in.
Never would I even try to argue that all white people that watch it think explicitly in terms of race or that white kids can’t like television and movies with non-white casts – to the contrary, I just admitted that I myself can and do watch television featuring all-white faces. Theres no reason why other people of a different ethnicity or race than me can’t also enjoy watching different kinds of people on television and on film.
Believe me when I say that I am not saying that the people that watch that show are racist, I am just saying that there are subtle cultural forces at work that make a show like Laguna Beach appealing that are related to race, whether we like it or not. The same concept applies to why Ebony and BET exist – because there is a segment of the population that wants to see black faces, plain and simple, and that is part if not most of the appeal of black-oriented programming.
Not really criticising or judging, just pointing out phenomenon like I said!
Better late than never! Raymond, I think that most of the shows you mentioned (#5) were produced and directed by common plankton.
Interesting that CNN is not on the list. How the mighty have fallen …. not even popular in the pond!
Justin; Maybe you and I have lived in very different worlds. I just never met anyone who would find a boring show appealing simply because they wanted to watch faces with the same skin color. I know a lot of you think that deep down that is what white people are really like at the core, but I just don’t know who you’re talking about. It’s so weird.
Jan Brauner, aka ma’am, that isnt what I said at all. Race is part of it, though, I guarantee you. Seriously, if the characters in that show were black, would the show attract the same audience?
The answer is no. And please dont address me as if I am speaking for all black people – thats very tacky of you.
Justin; I apologize as I wasn’t really meaning to apeak to you as if you speak for all blacks. Actually, I was just typing away, and was writing a general sentence to everyone who wrote on the blog saying the things I was referring to. When I said ‘I know a lot of you think….’, it was I was referring to comments that had been posted on the blog. I was not even sure if the writers were black or white. That was just an assumption on your part, but I regret it that I did not express my thoughts more eloquently. I often don’t when I am getting tired. And sometimes I make leaps, because I am not used to people being really sensitive.
Excuse me for assuming – but I am not sensitive at all. Its just that usually I am addressed as an individual. Either way, you lumped me with some other people when I think I was making a completely different point than the others on this board. Maybe you are tired.
One more time: my point is that yes race has something to do with what kind of popular culture people consume, period, and whether or not the particular show that I cited is the best example of that phenomenon, the point doesnt change.
Again, you are generalizing when it isnt necessary to: I made a point about white and black people alike, that is, that there are people of all races that gravitate to images and culture that reflects their self-image, which sometimes, a lot of times, includes race. So frankly ma’am, my point stands. Please dont confuse me with the other people on this board playing the blame game, going on about “double standards” and who started what and who is responsible for what. I don’t care – all I was pointing out is that what people watch is somewhat related to race in many individual cases – if you want to refute that point then please do.
Do not confuse me or my opinions with others. Thanks a million.
Justin; I take your point to heart and I accept that you were saying it for both sides of the coin. Thanks for not playing the blame game and all that….And, thanks for acceding that I’m tired. I had a really rough day today. Though it obviously didn’t come across, I didn’t find your premise objectionable in the sense that you applied it equally to all races.Ergo, I must not be explaining myself well…..My point is a fairly simple one…I think…And, I guess I better stick to my family and those people that I know. We totally gravitate to that which we find fascinating, gripping, visceral, beautifully cinematic, well crafted, and even exotic…In fact, the more exotic, the better. So, it is probably true to say that we are more drawn to shows that reflect ethnicities which are different from our own, as we find them more stimulating, fascinating, and more worth our time. Maybe because we lived an expatriate lifestyle for so many decades, we don’t find images that merely reflect our ethnic self image as entertaining, though we might enjoy seeing a depiction of an expatriate lifestyle as it might evoke memories.Am I making any sense? For me to truly appreciate a movie, it has to expand my world, not just parrot it. By the way, I hate being called ma’am, without a smile…..
I’m reading two different lines of thinking here.
1. The media is a free market system and explicitly black targeted media sprang up to fill a cultural void. In other words people are getting that for which they are willing to pay. Hey, I’m all about the free market.
2. However, a few posts down many commenters lament the fact that Tamika Huston (God rest her soul) and other minorities like her do not get the air time that white victims receive. I certainly agree it is a travesty and an injustice. However, it would seem the market demands it.
There is nothing wrong with exclusively black, white, hispanic, etc. entertainment. That is perfectly human and people like to see themselves reflected in popular culture. If something has a good story and is well crafted then in will have cross over appeal in multiple demographics. What concerns me is the point where capitalism and our responsibilities to our nation come together. It should not matter that the face of a white damsel in distress might pay the bills over at FOX or CNN. Those media outlets have a responsibility to the “human race” to do that which protects and uplifts us all. I’m not talking about government forced liberal socialism, but choosing to do the right thing by our choices in what sponsers we support and what media we allow in our homes. On the opposite side of that coin is the fact that BET and its like make money by giving a segment of the population exactly what they want to see. We can view that as harmless capitalism at its finest and really it is just that. I just ask us as media consumers to be cautious. It is very addicting to view the world from only one perspective and it would be ridiculous to pretend we don’t have a race problem in this country. All of us here, of different races and backgrounds talk to each other. Many people do not do that and society for them is what the media reflects. That black based organizations and media were necessary for blacks to break into the system is a simple truth. However, once that breakthrough is established do black executives also have a responsibility to tear down walls and become more fully integrated? I’m honestly not sure and maybe I’m reading something ominous into a perfectly harmless phenomenon. However, I can’t help but think that we have traded government sactioned “seperate but equal” for our own market driven brand. If fifty years from now our kids are still living in a world where race determines the merit of ideas and the worth of human life, then I hope it is not because the market demanded it.
Why isn’t there a magazine called “Ivory”. For the same reason there is a day called “Mother’s Day” and a day called “Father’s Day” and no “Children’s Day” (I actually asked this once)…
Every day is children’s day.
About the Cosby Show: true, the Cosby Show was designed to appeal to Whites, but even shows that were unquestionably Black I could like, and I can be [ashamedly] a flaming bigot sometimes.
I love “Good Times” and the movie “Uptown Saturday Night”. Movies with Black/White dichotomy can be very fun, too; prime examples are the Richard Pryor/Gene Wilder flicks (especially Silver Streak).
Don’t forget “Fat Albert”! Cosby was 30 years ahead of the curve with that show – directed towards inner city black children, teaching them that civility, acceptance and education are their own rewards. Can’t remember if race or racism was an issue dealt with directly in any of the shows, but I have a feeling it wasn’t. I do remember the song lyrics: “Hey hey hey…it’s Fat Albert! And I’m gonna sing a song for you, and Bill’s gonna show you a thing or two. We’ll have some fun now, with me and all the gang. Learning from each other, while we do our thing.”
It sheds a different light on Cosby’s recent (and sorely needed) smackdown of current black leaders and fellow grievance-mongers – kids need encouragement and guidance, not excuses. Just wondering: did a young Bootsie Collins do that theme song?
Believe it or not Mark, there is a Children’s Day. It is celebrated on November 20th each year. That my friend, is PC run amuck. Next we’ll have Postal Worker’s Day, Secretary’s Day, etc. Wait I better go look that up they probably already exist.
I get your point though. Exclusively black entertainment exists because media was a white dominated industry. Good Times was also one of my favorite shows. I loved to watch it after school each day. I even went through a phase where I answered the phone like J.J. – “Cheloooo”.
The seventies were a real breakthrough decade. My goodness has it really been nearly fourty years….
Speaking of “white tv” WARNING! FOX News is reporting ANOTHER missing BLONDE, PREGNANT WHITE WOMAN. Anyone see the pattern here yet?
If not, let me help you out by refreshing your memory a bit. Even the dim-witted Tom Joyner picked up on this phenomenon on his radio minstrel show this morning. Think about who the “white” media lead most notably by FOX News covers almost exclusively:
Jon Benet Ramsey
Polly Klaas
Elizabeth Smart
Chandra Levy
Laci Peterson
Smantha Runyon
Jessica Lundsford
etc.. Did I miss anyone?
Geesh even the inept LA Times gets it. What is with FOX News? I couldn’t believe my eyes last night when they put up a story on YET ANOTHER BLONDE MISSING PREGNANT WHITE WOMAN!!! Dang! Do they even care that women of color are missing too?
I mean at what point is enough enough as far as showing the face of Natalee Holloway’s mother and asking her the same silly questions over and over again?
Goodness gracious. If you are going to force that Twitty womank and the Sheehan lady down our throats 24-7-365, could you at least be aestetically fair to them assign a make-up technician to make them look somewhat presentable to the viewing audience?
In the meantime, Latoya Figueroa is lost somewhere crying saying to herself that in some sectors nothing has changed. It is still a racist world.
Kudos to the LA Times for finally getting a story right and shame on FOX News for dropping the ball on their so called “Fair and Balanced” moniker. [DELETED]
Calm down, Raymond. And kill the caps. – Admin
#62. Hallmark Cards creates most of these stupid days. They even have kwanzaa cards.
La Shawn:
Johnson did what any capitalist would do – he targeted the audience.
But Johnson got a “pass” because he was Black.
When “orientals” did the same thing, they got attacked and were required to pay “reparations”.
Toyota’s “gold tooth” ad was no doubt targeted at the same audience Ebony targeted. You know the rest.
I’ve been going around and around this post in my mind trying to figure out exactly what it is that bothers me about the idea of race targeted media. I’ve argued all different angles, but none of them have felt completely right. So, I’m going to try one more time because I think maybe I’ve hit on the truth for myself.
Last year our school had a boiler problem. It was allowing fumes into the building and aggravated student’s asthma and allergies. The whole community was talking about it and the administration was getting tons of angry phone calls. After one particularly smelly day, a large group of white parents got together and went to the board. Now they got the board talking, but mostly the members soothed them down with promises to hire a specialist to look into the boiler problem. They hired their engineer and he said that basically everything was ok. The problem continued and was getting worse. One of the black parents in my room asked me at a conference why nothing was being done about this problem. She was very concerned that her daughter just didn’t seem like herself anymore. She was lethargic and seemed to constantly have a head cold. I explained about the parents going to the board and what had happened. I saw anger in her eyes when I mentioned that meeting. She said none of those white folks had thought to call the black parents to let them know they were meeting with the board, even though it affected all the children. She said that if the board wouldn’t listen to a bunch of white people, then she knew they wouldn’t listen to a bunch of black people. She said that, just the same, she was going to try to get a bigger number of black parents to go to the central office and raise cain. Now just like this post that conversation stayed with me and after mulling it over all night I decided there was a much better way to get something done about a problem that affected all of our health. I called several vocal parents, both black and white, and explained that they needed to contact each other to see about forming a community wide protest. Sure enough they did just that. It’s almost like they needed an icebreaker to help them stop viewing the solution in terms of race and instead find power in numbers. All of these parents of all races and backgrounds descended on the school one afternoon. They had invited a local news station to the meeting where they aired their grievances to the principal and superintendent. Needless to say, the school closed for six days and the old diesel boiler was replaced with a propane burner. Some modifications were made on the air intake as well and we have not had any problems since.
All of this is a long way of saying that I don’t have a problem with race specific organizations or media simply because they are separatist. I have a prolem because they are not the most effective way to attack our social problems. The way we choose to organize ourselves and our resources can make all the difference in our ability to get things done. Now when some very inventive and tenacious individual starts up a media outlet called Conservative Entertainment Television, then I’ll feel like we are getting somewhere in this country. Imagine all of the conservatives out there, of all races and backgrounds, that could use such a forum to help do something about this country. The market would support it also if conservative talk radio is any indication.
So just one more time to make myself clear, I no longer feel like the major divide in our country is race. In my opinion the civil rights movement was a success. I think the major divide in this country is liberal vs. conservative. In my mind, this is a wiinner takes all fight and it will impact the future of all of out children. In the market place of ideas, wouldn’t we be better served to organize our business ventures along those lines?
“I no longer feel like the major divide in our country is race. In my opinion the civil rights movement was a success.” – Independent
What makes you think this?
Dell wrote, “What makes you think this?”
You, LaShawn, Raymond, James, Brotherbrown, Tiffany and a whole host of other successful blacks that are fully participating in the market place of ideas and the American dream, make me think that the civil rights movement was won. Now I’m not saying that people don’t suffer discrimination and sometimes plain out and out racism. But I think we all now have the ability to blaze our own trail and nevermind the bigoted idiots that try to keep us in our place. Individuals can be circumvented if we choose to fight for ourselves. Blacks once lived under the burden of government sanctioned racism, but those times are long gone. Now, I’m not saying blacks don’t have to fight against the prejudices of individual people or even organizations, but our government offers these racists no sanction. Perhaps the toughest walls to break through are the ones we erect for ourselves.
I keep hearing the question, “why isn’t there a White Entertainment Television”? I find this question both loaded and obvious. It is loaded in as much as it only seeks to inflame and force “us versus them” hysterics. Purely and simply, an exercise in demagoguery is at play here. By and large, the question is rhetorical even to the questioner. You don’t care that there isn’t a WET, but it bothers you that there is a BET.
That is not the point, to bother you. The point of BET is to be a profit making entity whose key demographic element… is Black. Nothing more, nothing less! If there were 30 of these networks, and someone spoke of a thirty-first, you’d think that person was insane. Actually, networks 3 through 29 would at this point be quite redundant. The reason that one BET, or a couple of similarly formatted networks can exist is because of the void left by the mass market driven networks. Black people want to see other Black people on TV sometimes and it need not be on “COPS”. Settle down, that was just my attempt at humor. We are represented on TV both positively and negatively, just like White folks. But BET, which by the way is now a White-owned company, give some control of direction and content to Black people. And White people are invited anytime. Dailey video shows are especially popular with White teen-age boys ,who buy more hip-hop CDs than anyone else. But, please believe me, no intelligent capitalist would undertake such a risky venture just to “tee off the White Man”.
So where does the “obvious” part of my comment fit? Simply stated it is more than obvious as to why there is no White Entertainment Television network. What would be the purpose? To allow a “seldomly seen segment” of the populace access to the medium? To program news and entertainment that “only White people will enjoy?” I seriously doubt it.
So in summation please refer to a previous statement for your answer in paraphrase: No intelligent capitalist would undertake such a risky venture just to “tee off the Black Man”. See, we are not so different after all!
Independent, just wondering. I disagree. But I was wondering. Often times when I here folks say stuff like that, they do it based upon perception as opposed to having a rational reason. You have a rational reason, I just disagree.
But to your second point, I think the polarization between the left and the right is more media driven than anything else, because truth be told, most folks fall in between the camps on the majority of issues, with one or two key issues really defining someone as a conservative or liberal.
For example, I am painted as a ‘moderate’, why? Because of my position on race alone. It doesn’t matter that in most areas I would be considered a far right conservative, but because of one issue that I break ranks on I am considered a moderate.
We have a bad habit of pigeon holing people. For example, can someone be anti-war & anti-Bush (like Sheehan) but at the same time be extremely conservative? I would like to think so, but many paint folks who hold that position as anti-patriot liberals.
It is rhetoric and polarization that divides I believe.
Independent,
Your response was interesting.
I think that race is still an issue in this country and a lot of the tension is caused by perception. As I read your story I found myself understanding exactly what the black parent was feeling. She felt invisible and discounted. She felt that the white people in that school were not concerned about the welfare of all the children but only of their children. That’s why I commend you for suggesting consensus building to solve the problem. The slight on the part of the white parents (and it may not have even been that) probably was not intentional.
A lot of white people don’t understand that the average person of color really operates in two worlds, even if they have white friends. I’ll use myself as an example. I am a college educated middle class black woman. I grew up with both parents. I work in Corporate America. I am your typical American. However, outside of work my friends are all black. I don’t socialize with many white people (outside of work) and really never have. No reason I suppose just haven’t. However, around certain friends and family, I use ebonics. I have a half brother who has been in and out of correctional facilities. I have cousins who live in some not so nice areas of town. That’s a whole different world that I also have to maneuver in that a lot of white folks wouldn’t understand (unless they have some trailer type relatives).
I also think what alot of white people don’t understand is that for a lot of people of color, that it’s the little slights that actually do the most damage to race relations. Little things that color peoples perceptions. I’d have a nice savings account for all the white people who have run up to me after tanning and said: Look! We’re the same color! I have had friends who got braids or cornrows and are asked can I touch them, like they are some aliens. I had a friend who after receiving a manager’s position at a company and coming in dressed to the nines and when she was introduced to staffers, had one woman ask was she there to fill the mail room position. I’ve been in stores in the mall where I can barely get a greeting as I walk into a store, while the white person who walks in behind me gets greeted like a long lost friend. Like I said sometimes it’s the just the little things.
White people have the luxury of just being. A lot of people of color don’t. They have to worry about how they are perceived ALL the time. I am never totally myself at work. I constantly have my guard up. I have a co-worker who curses like a sailor in the workplace. I would never do that because it’s unprofessional but also because I know I would be perceived much differently. It doesn’t help that I now live in Minnesota where the black population is like 2% statewide. I have to teach my 20 year old brother how to handle himself with the police because while not all police are bad, there are some bad actors who would jerk him around simply because his pants sag a little.
I think that tends to tie into the political battles that wage on LBC and in real life. I have several friends just like me that agree with conservative policies and still vote Democrat because they think Republicans are simply being disingenuous and truly only want enough of the black vote to stymie the Democrats. Or that they only want black folks who are rich in the party.
I’m sorry for rambling but I just wanted to voice how I felt about race relations…And for white folks, if you truly want to know how someone got braids in their hair, just ask them..don’t treat them like a pet dog…LOL!!!
Dell wrote, “But to your second point, I think the polarization between the left and the right is more media driven than anything else, because truth be told, most folks fall in between the camps on the majority of issues, with one or two key issues really defining someone as a conservative or liberal.”
I appreciate your response and yes we can agree to disagree. However, those “key issues” to me are battles that have the ability to crush our society if lost. There are a majority of people in this country that believe the killing of unborn children is perfectly ok.
In 2000, 1.31 million children were killed by government sanctioned abortions in the U.S.
Some 2.1 percent of all women aged 15 – 44 had an abortion in 2000.
Abortion is one of the most common surgical procedures in the U.S.
There have been at least 40 billion murdered children killed through abortion since 1973 – 4,000 each day!
Dell you will have to forgive me if I think combining our resources, despite racial tensions, to change hearts and minds about very real government sactioned murder is more important than maintaining the “race wars.” Perhaps by knocking down race walls and coming together for a common cause, more good can be done for race relations than by fighting seperatly. And that is just one atrocity being committed as a result of “media driven” polarization. So how about we change the media together instead of along race lines?
Well, you know how I feel about abortion…on that issue I would be considered extreme…
Tiffany, thank you so much for sharing your heart and indulge me while I share a little of mine. The Lord knows it is difficult to lay out that treatment which causes us the most shame for all eyes to read. I grew up dirt poor white from the “wrong side of the tracks.” I never had the right clothes or other material things to belong. My mom and dad, though wonderful, loving, God-fearing people were never in a position to open up doors for me. You’ll just have to trust me that in the white caste system, only a very few really have that privilege. So I did the only thing I could do, I worked hard in school and endured the jeers of my classmates. Even kids that were not much better off than myself joined in the fun at my expense. Hey, anything to keep yourself from being targeted, I suppose. Anyway, that struggle hardened my resolve to make something of my life and I did. I’m just saying that skin color, while certainly a factor in societal perceptions, is less of a determinant for our future success than our approach to overcoming obstacles.
“Government sanctioned” is so much rhetoric.
Voters in states get to choose. In some states, abortion is legal, in some states, it is not.
Brotherbrown, you are wrong about that statement. Look it up, please.
http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/states/stateindex.asp
Tiffany, this is what white people will never understand – “White people have the luxury of just being.”
You know we were just really talking there for a while. We were talking like human beings with mutual goals and common concerns. Then Dell slams down the race card. Dell, I’m glad to know you are so sure what white people will never understand. Do I have the luxury of making such generalized statements about blacks?
You certainly have the choice to do that, but you’ll be called a racist. I don’t say this often enough on this site, but you white people should NOT be afraid of being called a racist. It’s a tool used most often by those with weak arguments, and such people are unable to defeat yours through reason, so they press the old hot-button. Defeat the fear by embracing it. Ask the accuser what he means by “racist.” Asserting a fact is not “racist.”
Thanks LaShawn. Whites in this day and age have been beaten down so much with the club of racism charges that it has become an impediment to truth. I’m trying to express the only truth I know, but often I find myself a bit timid in saying certain things. I guess you can say it has been Pavloved into me. That’s why your site has become so successful. You speak truth and people respond to that.
Dell, this is what SOME minorities will never understand – Minorities have the luxury of calling racism everytime they hit a bump in the road.
I won’t call you racist Independent unless you believe I am biologically inferior based upon my race and act on it. That is the real definition of racism. And for the record, in terms of my experience with you, I don’t believe you feel that way. I may call you prejudiced, bigoted, or something like that, but not racist.
But let me ask you a question. Tell me what it is like to be black in a majority white culture, in a majority white city, in a majority white business, in a majority white office with no one else around you that looks like you, in a country that has had the history of polarizing race like America has. If you can tell me that, then I will cede the fact that maybe you can understand.
The fact of the matter is whites have the luxury of Just Being, so when they argue issues of race they fall prey so often to cognitive inertia and a redistribution of facts to fit what they perceive about the world from the dominant position.
See, that is the problem with so many of US (note the inclusiveness black/white), is that as soon as I say THEY dont understand, those who pretend to dialogue on issues of race beginning clichifying (my word) by tossing out crap like “race card”. If we are talking about race, then that is what is going to be presented. The question is this if you are truthful in your dialogue…why does someone feel this or that way, and how does that mesh with my view of the world?
Independent – Now we’re rolling..
Expand on your statement: Dell, this is what SOME minorities will never understand – Minorities have the luxury of calling racism every time they hit a bump in the road.
Show me how it is to walk in your shoes…
Independent – That’s what LBC is all about. You can say things on this blog you’d NEVER get away with on other black blogs. Don’t let anyone intimidate you…expect me.
Seriously, I won’t allow gratuitous race-related comments, but I give both black and white commenters a lot of room.
Dell, I don’t believe there is a such thing as “biologically inferior.” I do believe there is such a thing as “psychologically constipated” (my term). I just don’t have the time or patience to nurture people’s hurt feelings because someone, somewhere at sometime made or makes ugly remarks about them. We can only defeat ourselves, as many a minority success story proves.
Dell wrote, “The fact of the matter is whites have the luxury of Just Being…” Just being what Dell? Just being rich or poor, fat or thin, ugly or attractive, Christian or pagan, decent or evil, lazy or productive… what exactly do whites have the luxury of being? I woke up this morning and went through the process of getting ready for the day, just like you. I’ve got a pile of bills that need paying and not quite enough money to cover them all. I bet you have been there too? Of all the things that make me who I am, being white is the least of them. Except when it comes to discussing the issue of race in this country, in which case, being white means my opinions don’t carry as much weight.
Tiffany wrote, “Show me how it is to walk in your shoes…” Here is the thing Tiffany, being white in America today means always, always, always having to say your sorry. It means picking your words carefully and biting your tongue lest someone decides to interpret your thoughts as racist. It means enduring gossip about how white teachers are just a bunch of bigots because they refuse to put up with violent and disrespectful children who are SOMETIMES black. Being white means smiling through tax-payer funded racial sensitivity lectures that really mean lower your standards. It means wanting to shout out “I’m sorry for the ugly racial past, but that’s a general sorry for the human condition, not a personal sorry because I haven’t done anything wrong.” If you folks don’t think being white in America carries its own baggage, then perhaps you need to reexamine your own hearts.
Now, we’ve vented our spleens. How exactly does a person go about pitching an idea for a conservative television network?
Wow. Thank you for writing so eloquently Independent.
We can’t even talk about controlling our borders without fear of being called racists… and yet we can just be?
Dell, this is what SOME minorities will never understand – Minorities have the luxury of calling racism everytime they hit a bump in the road.
Comment by Independent
Indy, as long as you presented your arguments “with Pavlovian fear” you made excellent points that could indeed be seen as bridge or coalition building. But the moment you were told to embrace racism, you burned the bridge. All along your opinions had sound foundations until you were told that it is okay to be irrational. We all have things in our minds that should stay there. And the comment above is one of those things. You’ve said other things that I did not necessarily agree with, but the disagreements were founded on principle and life experience. There is no principle involved in your quote of interest. I won’t call you any names. But whenever that little voice in your head says slow down, sometime it is good to listen.
The following article was made for this discussion:
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20050814-095412-7362r.htm
In it is the following line:
In some of these classrooms, conservative students are intimidated into silence, ignored or occasionally ridiculed.
And this line:
The prevalence of “political correctness” at many colleges and universities is far from over, but at least a beginning has been made to make freedom of thought part of the curriculum.
Political Correctness extends to the workplace as well. Where I work you dare not challenge any of the ideas being pushed down.
alanscott, I think you are missing the point. Both Dell and Tiffany asked me to explain my point of view. In fact the words were, “Show me how it is to walk in your shoes…” Had you rather I lie when asked a real question about being white? How are we suppossed to get anywhere if we are not truthful? I’ve always felt you had to identify and confront a problem before you can come up with a solution.
Tiffany, alanscott’s response proves my point when I wrote, “It means picking your words carefully and biting your tongue lest someone decides to interpret your thoughts as racist.”
Truthfulness isn’t the issue. It not fair for anyone to ask you to walk in their shoes. Race is irrelevant in such a case. I don’t know how it feels to in the same situation as most other Black people, let alone Whites. I think you were baited…and bit. But then you fought back with with a comment that goes against everything you had previously stated. Race general comments are unfair coming from EITHER direction. That all.
You know what alanscott, you are probably right about taking the bait. It is just so frustrating to have your opinions discounted as less worthy because of the color of your skin. I wasn’t doing that to anybody, but I felt is was happening to me. If that is the concept “whites will never understand,” then consider me educated. However, my heated response doesn’t change the fact that at the end of the day the “conservative” family is better off sticking together than not doing so. We can bicker amongst ourselves and still stick together. Or we can not talk about that which festers and remain racially divided and weak.
One last point and I’ll leave it layin’. We’re all intelligent here and realize that given the void of knowing little else of each other besides the opinions and comments that we choose to share, it makes sense that the only things we “know” about each are our words. So yes, we must be careful in how we put them together. Words are among the most, if not the most, powerful weapons ever known to the world. Of course they have to be controlled. No “weapons” are to use irresponsibly. To quote one of my least favorite radio talkers, “Words mean things”.
Alan,
You are quite wrong about Independent being baited. At least not by me. I asked for HIS experience not any other white person. Though I am quite sure there are some commonalities that other whites may share or understand.
And the same does apply to black folks to some degree.
As I reread, every comment I made past comment 80 was based on pure emotion instead of logic. I’m not saying they are not true statements, just useless for the purpose of my argument. That is the power of general statements based on race. They are debate stoppers that take us from moving forward to running in circles. Dell, I’m glad you fight on the side of life. I feel better about the future of our children knowing you are in the fight. Tiffany, I have so enjoyed getting to know you better today. You gave me quite a chuckle about your “alien braids.” LOL Alanscott, thanks for reeling me in before I lost the complete point of my argument. La Shawn, I love this place. In no other forum do I encounter such intellectual honesty. Despite our differences, I try to fight on God’s side and we all have to fight based on our own life experiences. I’ve got to get off this racial merry-go-round for a little while because I’m getting dizzy. Peace
Awesome, Independent!
Several days ago, the child of very dear extraordinarily wealthy black friends of mine proclaimed that America was the ‘land of oppression’. Both of her parents had grown up in privileged circumstances, gone to Ivy league schools on affirmative action full rides (though my brother, who grew up in poverty and received a 1600 on his SATs did not get into the same school they went to). I was stunned, and asked her if something had happened as she had such deep friendships with white kids (and kids from all over the world). She said that it wasn’t until she went to college that she learned how horrible white people were, though nothing in particular had happened. She simply had her eyes opened by her activist professors, one of whom was Ward Chrurchill.
Tiffany angrily talks about a black woman who speaks of white parents in a school who only seem interested about the education of their children. Besides the fact that this seems fairly normal to me, and besides the fact that Tiffany stated on a previous post that she would have to do what was best for her child (when she had one) educationally without worrying about what others did…I have another question. Was the black woman in the story expressing concern and taking action about the education of the white children in the school? Was she thinking about others, or only herself? Why is it the responsibility of the white parents to make her feel comfortable, to worry about the education of the black children?
As far as being horrified because someone comes back from a tanning booth and offends your delicate sensibilities? Sorry, but my heart doesn’t bleed and my violin doesn’t play…Did it ever occur to you if you got out of your self absorbed world that many white people absolutely hate having such pale skin in which every mark, blotch, and blemish shows and that they think dark skin is so beautiful? But in your world, Tiffany, a white person has to watch every little bitty thing they say, for fear that it might just be the wrong itty bitty thing, though you don’t seem to even give a thought to what goes on in their world. I have read comment after comment after comment on your blog pieces that are amazingly hostile, and you blithely toss them off, because you are allowed to bash, because you have a color pass. You haven’t gone through a life time of trying to be nice.Recently, a college professor at an Ive League college wrote an essay in which he said that his white students started off so eager to make friends with black students and that by the end of their first year, they become so overwhelmed by the unrelenting onslaught of hostility that they receive at the hands of black students, that they eventually give up. He said they first try really really hard, get more and more quiet, and eventually just stop trying.
And, while I’m on a roll, you said that most white people wouldn’t know about having relatives from a bad part of town unless they had relatives in trailers or something..There are 2.7 times more poor white people in the US that there are black people. Trust me, a great many of us know a lot about that world.
I’m a parent and I am really really sick of my kids comiong home from school feeling overwhelmed with guilt for things that their ancestors had no part of. They are continually shamed in the classroom,Often shouted down by their black classmates here in America, which has shocked them, while the ancestors of minority children are washed clean of all wrong-doing. Minority children are never asked to bear the guilt of slavery, though their free ancestors indulged in it, and their African brothers ruthlessly indulge in it today. We have become so politically correct that we only talk about white transgressions,and we gloss over the shocking crime statistic imbalance, so don’t tell me what it is like to walk in my shoes, any more than you want me to tell you what it is like to walk in your shoes.
So, I may not know what it is like to walk in your shoes, but I also know for sure that you don’t have the slightest clue what it is like to walk in my shoes. Or white shoes…….
Jan,
You sound a bit bitter to me dear. Step away from the computer.
The purpose of my post was not to bash actually but simply to call it like it see it. Just like you are apparently hypersensitive to race, I was noting that I can be as well. That was the point of giving my point of view.
Self-absorbed?? I hardly think so or else I wouldn’t be extending myself to be dialoguing with the others on this blog. I do learn from others. I especially appreciated Heliotrope’s commentary and experiences. As I mentioned, I don’t have know any white people in depth enough to gather that information from
And just because I point out slights that white people (most times out of lack of knowledge) do doesn’t EVEN suggest that black people aren’t guilty of the same type of behavior. But I guess to make you feel better then I should have been more balanced in my post and said black people are mean too. Baby, please. I ALREADY know that!
Even since you started posting on the board (since you want to go there) I’ve read your long soliloquies about your multi-racial family and whatnot and how we all need to get along and be more color-blind and now because I post my viewpoint on how I see race and then proceed to try to have reasoned dialogue and understand others points and learn from it, then you come on her and question my motives and accuse me of being HOSTILE. What the hell do you think about what you wrote, that it was FRIENDLY??? As I am fond of saying, GET OVER YOURSELF.
But that’s alright, if you feel better because you got to dump on the ‘angry black girl’ and sleep alright tonight then I guess your job is done for the day.
Whatever.
Helio: Holler at me in the morning and we can continue talking. Change happens one person at a time.
Crying racism is now like “crying wolf” or “date rape” or “hate crime.” When a foul really occurs, no one is listening.
The true meaning of racism whatever it really is or was if anything is so diluted, nebulous, gelatinous, situation-specific, politically-charged and misused that it now means nothing other than the fist person to use it has lost the argument in the arena of ideas. Sooo, I suppose it is a useful term.
“Racism” is like a dye pack. It indelibly labels the idiots wielding it.
Now that I’d gotten that off my chest. I’ll say this. I don’t appreciate how you came at me Jan, because guess what: you don’t know me or any thing about me and one thing I hate is having my motives questioned.
My black experience does not invalidate your white (or whatever ethnicity you claim) experience. I never said that in my post so where you inferred that I have no idea.
You just ruined a great conversation because you chose to attack me with your ‘heart bleeding and violins playing’ drama. I don’t deserve that. And like LaShawn said earlier in the thread, white folks need to get over being called racist (though that was not used here) and she firmly believes black people need to quit using the ‘race card’ at every drop of the hat. Guess what, I think so too.
Basically we all are thin-skinned. But at least I’m trying to work on that. At least that I am trying to do. That’s calling growing.
Yikes! I’ve really enjoyed the majority of this conversation. For better or worse, race is something people don’t tend to speak honestly about in the “real world.” What has been shown here is that underneath our polished public veneers we are all harboring insecurities for many different reasons – race being just one. It actually takes incredible courage to be a human being knowing darn well you made a jacka** of yourself today and will probably do it again tomorrow.
Tiffany said, “Basically we all are thin-skinned. But at least I’m trying to work on that.” Me too Tiffany, Me too.
Tiffany; For some weird reason, I feel better now that you wrote back, even though I take it that you don’t like my ’stuff’. But, at least it’s a dialogue, and it’s real. First, it’s not race that I am hypersensitive about…it is the overwhelming emphasis on it that I am hypersensitive about.Also, it isn’t always easy hearing some of the things I hear on this blog.A lot of it is harsh and very hostile.
When I said that you were self absorbed, that was obnoxious on my part and I hope you accept my apologies.I was referring more to you saying that you constantly have your guard up, which makes it hard to really be thinking a lot about other people and how they feel. I was trying to open up the possibility that white women probably find your darker skin quite beautiful, and that it isn’t a slight.Two of my kids who are very fair are quite embarassed over it because their veins show, they have freckles, and blotches. My black friends tell me I have a skinny butt. I do. I hate it, but I can’t help it.
Maybe you and Heliotrope can pick up the thread and it won’t be totally ruined.
Thank you, Independent, for the smiley face.
Jan, I appreciate your response and accept your apology whole-heartedly. I’ll be the first to admit that I didn’t have a good perspective on what it is to be ‘white’ in this country and your response as well as Helio’s helped me to see that. It will cause me to think harder the next time I “think” I may have been slighted. Sometimes we all can over analyze a situation.
As far as the discussion goes, let’s ALL keep talking.
Raymond, I agree with you again..What is the world coming too??? LOL!!!
Jan wrote, “I was trying to open up the possibility that white women probably find your darker skin quite beautiful, and that it isn’t a slight.”
That is so interesting that you say that and I would have to concur. I teach K through 2nd grade, depending on the school year. Little white kids who have not had a lot of intimate exposure to blacks are simply fascinated by black children’s hair. They will play with it and “fix” it and they are in love with the little girls that wear beads. The little black girls like to play with white girl’s hair also. The texture is new too them. Theirs is such a frank and open expression of curiosity and acceptance. It’s us foolish adults that poison children with our preconceptions. Our self-constructed walls are unhealthy to us all.
Awesome! I just woke up and I am smilin’! I feel like the sun has come through!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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