You know you’re living in a horribly degraded culture when people spend years doing research to find out whether unborn babies feel pain so they can feel justified in their pro-child killing stance.
The lead author of a report which concluded that fetuses don’t feel pain until the seventh month used to work for a pro-child killing group. Another author works for a child killing clinic.
Critics disputed the findings and called the report biased….”They have stuck their hands into a hornet’s nest,” said Kanwaljeet Anand, a fetal-pain researcher and professor at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. He believes fetuses as young as 20 weeks feel pain….
The review by researchers at UCSF comes as Congress and state legislatures are considering fetal-pain laws aimed at curtailing abortion. (Source)
If the mere possibility that innocent babies are tortured in the womb doesn’t make these women want to hang their heads in shame for advocating murder…but they’ll realize one day soon how depraved they are.
It’s too tragic for words.
Jason Smith: “Ok, wasn’t going to blog this, but LaShawn made me.”
Update: Forgot to include the link to a related USA Today story.
Update II: From Frank Z.:
As an anesthesiologist, I can tell you:
There is a large body of medical literature strongly suggesting (outside of a questionnaire) that even very small premature infants (some younger than aborted fetuses) DO feel pain.
They cry when they are stuck with needles. During surgery, they show responses of hormones and blood pressure consistent with pain.
Therefore, we anesthetize them as we do adults.
Why they need to justify babies don't feel pain
La Shawn commented on her blog…
They justify their positio…
Trackback by Family Medicine from A Biblical World View — 08.25.05 @ 9:13 am
La Shawn Barber on Unborn Babies and Pain
A report was just released claiming that unborn babies don’t feel pain until the seventh month of pregnancy
Trackback by Wesley Blog — 08.25.05 @ 11:32 am
Fetus’s Are Human Too
CNSNews.com reports on the American Life League’s take on a report published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. UPDATE: La Shawn Barber’s Corner has more…
Trackback by Helen's Light — 08.25.05 @ 12:48 pm
This whole study is totally irrelevant to the abortion discussion. If pain were the criteria for outlawing the killing of another, then it wouldn’t be a crime to kill someone under anesthesia, in a coma or on painkillers.
Comment by Jason Smith — 08.25.05 @ 12:52 pm
A Little Linkie-Love
A new Dulaan year has started. There’s a new button too! So, warm a body, and your own heart at the same time.
Scrappleface has some things to say.
Disgusting.
This sure needed to be said. H/T : Baldilocks
LaShawn Barber has a word on pai…
Trackback by Cass Knits! — 08.25.05 @ 1:10 pm
It’s relevant in the sense that the pro-killing side normally arugues that the underdeveloped baby isn’t human, isn’t sentient, and is basically just a fleshy lump. The pro-life side must then go about finding evidence to prove that the baby is indeed human, hence studies about fetal pain, etc. The more human the babies are, the more inhumane the pro-killing crowd is shown to be.
The study saying that a fetus doesn’t feel pain until the 7th month defies common sense though. Severely premature babies born at 6 months or even younger are obviously and definitely human beings who react to their surroundings with changes in heartrate and blood pressure.
Comment by FL Mom — 08.25.05 @ 1:15 pm
Debate Continues on Abortion Fetal Pain Study
The news media is in a feeding frenzy reporting on a “study” (actually, a re-interpretation of existing medical literature) published in this week’s Journal of the American Medical Association. The authors claim that there is no substantial reason t…
Trackback by ProLifeBlogs — 08.25.05 @ 1:27 pm
Maybe they want to “think” the baby dosen’t feel pain in order to continue to place their tissue organ orders:
“15 to 24 weeks gestation. Cut each requested tissue/oran into 1 gram sections, store and ship on Dry Ice, Ship next day FEDERAL EXPRESS.” SAID one research scientist.
Then ask the research scientist if he would like to be cut up into 1 gram sections?
Maribel Hernandez
Comment by Maribel Hernandez — 08.25.05 @ 1:44 pm
When I first read of this study, I threw a paroxysm. What is the point here? Shredding a baby is shredding a baby whether the baby can feel pain, whistle or pick his own nose has not a thing to do with it.
When the mother submits her womb to the invasion of the professional baby killer, she is accepting a decision that will stay a part of her conscious recollection for her entire life. Every time abortion is mentioned, it will be personal with her.
Comment by Heliotrope — 08.25.05 @ 1:54 pm
This is risky biz for the pro-abortion crowd.. by admitting any concern at all, even indirectly, with the well-being of the “tissue mass”, they give their game away. I can’t believe they don’t realize this….
Feeling pain is not, of course, the essence of humanity. It is not the proof that the subject is human, only that it has a nervous system.
These people have goofed, and I hope the national debate can be steered toward this point, WILL be steered to it… I hope the blogosphere and talkradio takes notice of this slip-up.
Comment by dave — 08.25.05 @ 2:07 pm
If that same baby have been born prematurely, taken care of in a hospital until ready to be taken home and when the mother took the baby home, she killed it, she would be charged with murder.
I have had 5 babies myself, I am now a mother, grandmother and even a great-grandmother. I watched my own move around inside me at 7 months, I watched my grand babies move around inside their Mama’s and now I am watching my beautiful great-grand babies moving inside their Mama’s.
They feel, they need love and protection, they are little human-beings. It is the most natural progression of life and why oh why should any human-being want to disturb it?
As far as I can tell, one political party has based it’s whole platform on the right to kill babies. I see nothing else they are offering of any substances.
Comment by Florence Davis — 08.25.05 @ 2:09 pm
La Shawn, I can understand your turning off comments; someone thinking it is a violation of their ‘right’ to free speech should get a page with their name on the top. They want to post here because you have a wide audience for their views-because no one would ever visit their blog (if they even had the discipline to keep one going). Thank you.
Comment by Doug — 08.25.05 @ 2:47 pm
Dave/10 writes: “This is risky biz for the pro-abortion crowd.. by admitting any concern at all, even indirectly, with the well-being of the ’tissue mass’, they give their game away.”
C’mon, Dave. That’s like saying that people who present evidence against global warming are doing so because they are secretly concerned that global warming exists.
Look. For years, through movies like “The Silent Scream” and websites, etc., pro-lifers have asserted that abortions cause pain to fetuses. I’m sorry, but pro-lifers put the issue of “pain” on the table in the first place.
If pro-lifers are going to make a scientific assertion like that, then they shouldn’t be surprised when the scientific community engages in a scientific inqury. This study merely questions (and partially refutes) the assertion that pro-lifers have made.
That said, I agree with those who say the study doesn’t begin to touch the moral implications of abortion…
Comment by Kman — 08.25.05 @ 3:20 pm
I agree that this could be a slipperly slope for the anti-life crowd. It will take some doing for the impact of the study to show, but I think that the ripple effect could well end up working to the benefit of the pro-life cause. Mind you, it won’t change the hearts of the truly hardened anti-lifers, but it may sow seeds of contemplation in those who aren’t so dedicated to baby-killing. Ultimately, we have to trust that the Holy Spirit will use such moments of contemplation to reach into and soften hearts of stone.
Comment by AWG — 08.25.05 @ 3:20 pm
LSB, by “child killing clinic” are you referring to UCSF?
Florence Davis, various Democratic groups offer various agendas (as is characteristic of a minority party). The Senate Democrats are obviously one of the most relevant groups; they have a 10-point plan online here. I guess you could dismiss it as being insubstantial, but it does include supporting our troops, the strategy of the War on Terror, education reform, and reducing abortion rates. I consider all of those to be substantial.
Comment by ptm — 08.25.05 @ 3:33 pm
It breaks my heart that in order to find the limit (or whatever) they have to experiment using torturous methods on unborn babies. If people weren’t hard of heart, this alone would be enough for the nations to cry injustice.
Comment by Larry — 08.25.05 @ 4:00 pm
Just read this little post over at La Shawn Barber’s blog concerning this article about a report that says, essentially, that fetuses don’t likely feel pain until around the 7th month of development. […]
Pingback by Bryan O’Bryan — 08.25.05 @ 4:40 pm
Let’s follow the logic: the fetus feels no pain until a given point in the pregnancy therefore it’s permissible to kill it at any time prior thereto.
Using that absurd logic, then would it be reasonable to kill my neighbor as long as the act was painless, say in his sleep?
This adds nothing, nothing, nothing to the debate, but serves well to confuse the ignorant.
Comment by SickAndTired — 08.25.05 @ 5:23 pm
“This adds nothing, nothing, nothing to the debate, but serves well to confuse the ignorant.”
Well put. Scientifically interesting, but not particularly relevant to the abortion discussion.
Comment by ptm — 08.25.05 @ 5:48 pm
I guess I’ve never thought that pain was relevant because I’ve always thought the whole “it isn’t a baby; it’s a potential human” was ridiculous on its face.
I thought this as a teen, who was well aware that sex could mean a baby so no sex was had until I felt I could sufficiently care for one.
I still believe this as a woman who, after having her first child in her mid-20’s, realized she was idiotic as an 18-year-old when she thought she could have handled a baby. This point was punctuated again when, as a 31-year-old I had my second child.
And, believe me, if there was a potential for a “fetus” to become anything OTHER than a baby…I would have had my tubes tied AGES ago. I mean, having a baby human is hard enough; if I could be expected to pop out a small elephant or even a golden retriever…well, I wouldn’t be willing to take the risk.
Women kvetch constantly about being equal and all that jive–I just don’t understand why they can’t also see that we must be responsible for our actions and ready for the consequences of them.
Comment by Melinda — 08.25.05 @ 6:53 pm
La Shawn:
As an anesthesiologist, I can tell you:
There is a large body of medical literature strongly suggesting (outside of a questionnaire) that even very small premature infants (some younger than aborted fetuses)DO feel pain.
They cry when they are stuck with needles. During surgery, they show responses of hormones and blood pressure consistent with pain.
Therefore, we anesthetize them as we do adults.
Comment by Frank Z. — 08.25.05 @ 8:23 pm
Biased Abortion Study
While I agree with La Shawn that it is irrelevant if an unborn baby feels pain in the first months of pregnancy or not, it is still worth noting that the authors of that study work for a pro-abortion group……
Trackback by GOP Bloggers — 08.25.05 @ 9:11 pm
While I agree with La Shawn that it is irrelevant if an unborn baby feels pain in the first months of pregnancy or not, it is still worth noting that the authors of that study work for a pro-abortion group… […]
Pingback by Matt Margolis — 08.25.05 @ 9:31 pm
Are They Proud of This?
As I said, (and got from LaShawn), the mere fact that these studies are occuring is a sad testament to the standards we set in our society. There should be no question that the possibility of fetuses feeling pain should even be tested–after all, to …
Trackback by The American Princess — 08.25.05 @ 9:57 pm
JAMA, abortion, and all the crying babies
“If Congress wants an objective evaluation of whether calves and lambs are being slaughtered humanely, they will not rely too much on the report from the operators of slaughterhouses.”—Douglas Johnson, legislative director of t…
Trackback by BlogRodent — 08.25.05 @ 10:53 pm
On a personal note, I don’t know if I would be able to kill my child even if it meant my life. My mother wanted a large family and the doctors told her to stop having kids after the fourth child. I am number seven. She probably should have stopped, but she wanted those kids. My parents ended up with eight. My mother was sick most of the time while I was young. Her sacrifice showed me the sanctity/sacredness of life. In honor of my mother’s sacrifice, I simply couldn’t have an abortion. That’s just me.
Comment by cynthia — 08.26.05 @ 12:19 am
Hang your head in Shame
Ok, this post may be a little different. My blog is dedicated to recovery and recovery related issues and this may seem a little off topic, but I dont think it is. Let me explain. Recovery from addiction to alcohol and drugs requires that you face up t…
Trackback by Christian Recovery — 08.26.05 @ 12:31 am
Those who did the study should be more aware of the news. Recently CNN reported of a little girl, Ashlyn Blocker, who’s otherwise healthy and functional but CANNOT feel any pain at all. I’m sure no one in their right mind would consider killing her to be okay.
Comment by fuzz — 08.26.05 @ 12:32 am
My friend’s son was born at 26 weeks. I’m sure they would be surprised to learn he was not supposed to feel pain for another month or so…the surgeons and anesthesiologists certainly didn’t know because they put him under for surgery.
Some one should alert the appropriate medical societies…
Comment by PurpleMD — 08.26.05 @ 1:43 am
Bahng Chicka Bonck Beow
Today’s dose of NIF - News, Interesting & Funny … Workie-too-much Friday
Trackback by NIF — 08.26.05 @ 6:49 am
Aw dang it…….here I was set to post but LaShawn put the caveat ‘except numbskulls’……wahhhhhhhhhhhh
Comment by Proud Albertan — 08.26.05 @ 12:51 pm
Bless you cynthia.
Comment by SickAndTired — 08.26.05 @ 10:15 pm
Your readers bring up a lot of good points and I have to agree, pain isn’t the issue with abortion.
I thought I heard on the radio (Hannity, maybe) that the people involved in the review were: a medical STUDENT, a doctor who owns abortion clinics, and someone who has ties with NARAL. Can anyone confirm this?
By the way, La Shawn–your readers love you and are happy you turned the comments back on so they can interact with you!
Comment by P. Campbell — 08.26.05 @ 10:57 pm
Pain in the unborn
According to this article in USA Today, a rehash of old medical reports suggests that unborn babies probably don’t feel pain prior to the 7th month. A fetal-pain researcher takes issue with the report:They have stuck their hands into a
Trackback by Area417 — 08.26.05 @ 11:24 pm
Hi, LaShawn, good post. Just a note from someone with experience in this matter. I am a registered nurse, working in pediatric intensive care. In the 11 years I’ve been in this job, I have had multiple occasion (once just yesterday, in fact) to care for premature infants, some as young as 24 weeks. Now, putting aside the ethical issues surrounding resuscitation of infants born at that early gestation, I will say that at no time ever have I entertained the thought that these babies don’t feel pain. Unfortunately, in my job we have to do painful procedures to infants a lot, such as starting IV’s or sticking their heels for blood. They always react the same as a full-term infant does, just as you would expect them to - they pull away, screw up their faces, cry, their heart rates and blood pressures increase - all the hallmarks of pain that we are taught to recognize in a patient population unable to articulate its needs, feelings, etc.
Make no mistake - infants as young as 24 weeks gestation (and much earlier, I am sure) most definitely do feel pain. So, am I to believe that passing from the uterus into the air causes them to be able to feel this pain? Do these nerve pathways only function in air? Or - and I may be off here - or, could this study just be a load of pro-child killing crap?
Comment by nursedave — 08.27.05 @ 6:54 pm