Update II (4:17 p.m.): The “poor and hungry” are shooting at rescue workers and helicopters. Classy. Liberal apologists will excuse/defend it, I’m sure. Anybody brandishing a gun who’s not wearing a uniform should be shot on sight.
Update III (7:18 p.m.): People were murdered yesterday. Reports of rape today. Shoot.On.Sight.
Watch the video of COPS stealing. Embarrassing!
——————————————————–
…whether they’re carrying a case of beer or a case of guns. Law and order is disintegrating, and it’s only going to get worse. People are stealing firearms, computers, televisions, jewelry — the formation of roaming, pillaging, and raping gangs isn’t far behind.
I imagine it would be difficult to point a gun at someone carrying a bag of food, water, diapers, and a crying baby in his arms. I know that people are hungry, thirsty, frustrated and desperate. Some survivors might be stealing guns to protect their families from other looters, but someone has to draw a line somewhere.
As tensions rise, chaos will increase. I hope the worst dissipates before anyone is shot, but law enforcement must protect people and enforce the law, even if it means shooting looters on sight.
Gunshots repeatedly rang out and fires flared around the city as looters broke into stores, houses, hospitals and office buildings — some in search of food, others looking for anything of value. They broke windows, tore down security gates and knocked down doors, then hauled away what they could carry or cart. (Source)
Should desperate times call for desperate measures? Are people still obliged to obey the authorities even if they’re cold, wet, homeless, and hungry, or is it Thunderdome? Christians know the answers to those questions.
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. (Romans 13)
Lest some of you get it twisted, the Apostle Paul didn’t speak these words in the context of a theocracy. He was a citizen of Rome speaking to Christians about civil government specifically and all forms of government generally. Bible-believing Christians know that God is sovereign over all things, including our appointed leaders, whether the leaders believe in Him or not, and we’re to obey those in authority.
Catch me tonight around 8:30 p.m. EDT on Hugh Hewitt’s show as we talk about blogger fundraising for the hurricane victims. I’m asking LBC readers to give to the Salvation Army.
(CBS News photo)
———————————————————————————————
Read more about looters and cancellations. Can law and order be restored?
Live-blogging the looting (via Wires from the Bunker)
Update (10:16 a.m.): Evacuation Disrupted Amid Fires, Gunshots:
Tempers flared elsewhere across the devastated region. Police said a man in Hattiesburg, Miss., fatally shot his sister in the head over a bag of ice. Dozens of carjackings were reported, including a nursing home bus. One officer was shot in the head and a looter was wounded in a shootout. Both were expected to survive. (Emphasis added)
Looters Are the Worst of Humanity (via Booker Rising)
There’s a rumor going around that my shoot on sight idea is not befitting of a “compassionate conservative.” I have no idea what a compassionate conservative is, nor have I ever claimed to be one. 
Police and Owners Begin to Challenge Looters
Peggy Noonan: “As for the tragic piggism that is taking place on the streets of New Orleans, it is not unbelievable but it is unforgivable, and I hope the looters are shot.” (via Professor Bainbridge)
8:42 p.m.: COMMENTING IS CLOSED FOR THE NIGHT. Will re-open in the morning.
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I am disappointed that the Mayor and Governor did NOT declare martial law from the start. What message did they send when the police were helpless to stop the looters on days one and two, possibly only relying on the regular rule of law of “don’t offend”, don’t use extreme force, be nice to the thugs for fear of lawsuits? Yes we are all aware there was a manpower issue but no order being given on martial law and how to deal with the looting from the on-start only compunded the problem.
They just said that the evacution of the Superdome has been haulted temporarily because shots have been fired at military helicopters that are trying to save the fools doing the shooting…
just developing, if true….
UUUGGGHHHHH!!!
Where did you read that, Renee?
They were just saying on Fox News…
they are trying to verify
CNN is interviewing an AF officer about it, they are only saying that it has been reported and is a possibility but not sure yet what happened…
A guardsman was also wounded (shot) inside the dome yesterday. The AF officer just confirmed that. He said it was not life threatening and he will be fine.
Here’s one story La Shawn (from MSNBC)
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/
La Shawn:
There is no better testimony to the correctness of the Moynihan report, and the trashing of it, than the streets of New Orleans.
To expect these “angry young men” to obey police and stop looting is, unfortunately, asking too much from them.
They have spend their entire lives not listening to authority figures – parents, teachers, police. Why should they start obeying authority figures now?
I believe that, unfortunately, the cops are out of luck. We will probably just have to accept the looting, or kill an awful lot of looters.
Priceless quote from a looter
Mike Franklin stood on the trolley tracks and watched. “To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it’s an opportunity to get back at society,” he said.
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/nation/12520176.htm
I have long said that not disciplining your children will cause issues, Frank.
In the short run, what you said is bearing my opinion out.
It’s about to get more complicated in Houston because some of the early evacuees 9who left prior to the storm) are showing up and at first were told they couldn’t go in because they had only prepared for the Superdome refugees. Now they said they won’t run anyone away and they will take people on a first come first serve basis. How do they validate who really came from New Orleans and who did not? I believe they should take any evacuees who need assistance from New Orleans (regardless if they left prior to the storm or not) however I am sure Houston (just like any other big city has it’’s own homeless and illegal immigrant problems).
If they can only support 25,000 (knowing there are way more than that number)… it is definitely time for those MEGA CHURCHES to step up to the plate before we have another chaotic situation in Houston.
Just venting.
When there is a breakdown of authority, those who have the guns or the muscle make the rules. We saw this in Iraq. Some wrote off what happened there as “thats just the way those people are”. We see now that it is a universal rule that has always been an ugly part of human nature.
La Shawn you are absolutely right about shooting on sight. IF that were to take place, word would quickly get around and bring things to a stop. The problem with trying to get things under control is that the police are conditioned to using minimum force and will not be able to get their enforcement concept geared to “martial law”. Also, I can guarantee that the National Guard are patrolling (if they are in fact doing any patrolling) with UNLOADED weapons. Not very effective when the looters are armed with loaded ones.
La Shawn,
You’re not going to believe this. But, as drastic as your idea sounds, I actually agree with you. I, too, would have a hard time aiming a gun at those carrying essentials such as food, diapers, etc. But, these fools running around with TVs and other nonsense? Fire those weapons. Let them know that such actions will not be tolerated.
I guess we are seeing the future of the new secular society when it faces true adversity. Without the Christian values that previously informed our decisions being commonplace people only worry about themselves and their wants and needs and only respond to force. Enjoy the future, soon to come to a town near you when the next serious crisis unfolds.
Scary but true William
Montie, you’re right about police being conditioned to use minmimum force, and I’ll bet they’re even afraid of lawsuits. It’s a sad picture right now, but I hope order is restored soon.
p.s. La Shawn, I’m glad you’re activating comments at your discretion. And if you don’t want to hear from the peanut gallery or things get out of hand, you just wave your queen scepter and shut it down.
AMEN FL Mom…
this should be a wake up call to America that we have created this “outlaw” mentality (La Shawn previous post on a Nation of Outlaws says it best and that is just one example of how we have helped create this situation by destruction of the family, discipline and morality being taught in school and not in the homes, no absolutes, etc., etc)…
we can not have it both ways.
From what I’ve seen of the looters, it looks as though it is recreation for them. There’s nothing else to do [electricity out so no TV, arcade games, etc.], so why not loot? Apparently, it would be unthinkable for then to form a coalition of the willing and able-bodied and station themselves around the city to give directions to people who don’t know where to go. I’m sure there are other ways they could be helpful if they wanted to.
They are saying that one of the militray personnel was hit when the shots were fired at the helicopter…
not sure of the extent of injury though (still developing and verifying this one)
I heard a Mississippi sheriff this morning say that the law makes allowances for those caught in that kind of situation to appropriate food stuffs and the essentials for survival.
I think that is reasonable. If I were in that situation I might also, although I would leave an IOU with my name and address. Might never get to pay it back but at least I would take the effort.
TV’s and booze and jewels are not essential to survival (as far as I know).
Me, I say anyone caught brandishing a weapon against a peace officer or a representative of the government and/or truly looting, along with anyone in their company, should be summarily executed.
And the blood will indeed be on the hands of those who created the “Outlaw Nation” referenced above.
They just showed some footage of some buses being diverted that were suppose to pick up sick patients from hospitals and police officers diverting the bus to take out SOUTHERN BELL employees which they said was more important. When the buses made it to the hospitals, patients were forced into the aisles (if they were able to get them on the buses at all). The quote was “survival of the fittest”.
Reminds me of the mentality that was behind some of the comments regrading Terri Schiavo and the excuses used for abortion (but I digress)…
Our chickens are coming home to roost (sigh)
Getting back to reality and the ‘real’ tragedy-
Here is a quote from an article originally published on June 8, 2004 in the Times-Picayune:
For the first time in 37 years, federal budget cuts have all but stopped major work on the New Orleans area’s east bank hurricane levees, a complex network of concrete walls, metal gates and giant earthen berms that won’t be finished for at least another decade.
“I guess people look around and think there’s a complete system in place, that we’re just out here trying to put icing on the cake,” said Mervin Morehiser, who manages the “Lake Pontchartrain and vicinity” levee project for the Army Corps of Engineers. “And we aren’t saying that the sky is falling, but people should know that this is a work in progress, and there’s more important work yet to do before there is a complete system in place.”
…
“I can’t tell you exactly what that could mean this hurricane season if we get a major storm,” Naomi said. “It would depend on the path and speed of the storm, the angle that it hits us.
“But I can tell you that we would be better off if the levees were raised, . . . and I think it’s important and only fair that those people who live behind the levee know the status of these projects.”
…
The Bush administration’s proposed fiscal 2005 budget includes only $3.9 million for the east bank hurricane project. Congress likely will increase that amount, although last year it bumped up the administration’s $3 million proposal only to $5.5 million.
“I needed $11 million this year, and I got $5.5 million,” Naomi said. “I need $22.5 million next year to do everything that needs doing, and the first $4.5 million of that will go to pay four contractors who couldn’t get paid this year.”
And here is an excerpt from May of this year:
In the event of a slow-moving Category 4 or Category 5 hurricane (with winds up to or exceeding 155 miles per hour), it’s possible that only those crow’s nests would remain above the water level. Such a storm, plowing over the lake, could generate a 20-foot surge that would easily overwhelm the levees of New Orleans, which only protect against a hybrid Category 2 or Category 3 storm (with winds up to about 110 miles per hour and a storm surge up to 12 feet). Soon the geographical “bowl” of the Crescent City would fill up with the waters of the lake, leaving those unable to evacuate with little option but to cluster on rooftops — terrain they would have to share with hungry rats, fire ants, nutria, snakes, and perhaps alligators. The water itself would become a festering stew of sewage, gasoline, refinery chemicals, and debris.
“I don’t think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees.” GWB.
Probably true -He doesent know squat.
Quack.
Respecting civil authority is one thing, and you’ll get no argument from me. The people who are taking advantage of this catastrophe in order to acquite TVs and iPods make me wretch. And steps must be taken to crack down on them.
But I see no justification, biblical or otherwise, for that legal authority to engage in killing people.
If you are interested in “drawing a line”, may I suggest that it be drawn in a way consistent with the 6th Commandment?
P.S. Do you really think that Governor Kathleen Blanco’s authority was “established by God”? Does that extend to, say, girl-groping Schwarzenegger or a liberal politician? What about other governing rulers, like Saddam Hussein?
I don’t want to get into a theological debate, but you might want to consider that Paul was not giving carte blanche to all civil authorities to do whatever they please. They, too, must be obedient to the one Authority.
Here goes:
I’d like to hear from some of the shop owners. This might be a long shot; but, is it possible that some of the shop owners gave permission? I had no idea that the same person who takes the photographs also does the captions. Someone holding a jug of water, doesn’t tell you much, and we are having to take white photographers’ word that there did occur a bona fide case of looting. Photographers never lie in their captions, eh?
That being said, even taking water and diapers, is wrong. If you can justify stealing in the name of feeding your children, then you can justify just about any sort of crime. Children must watch TV, and it’s a very short leap from stealing baby food….to then stealing iPods, all in the name of survival. Anything, and everything, becomes a necessity.
Shoplifting is shoplifting no matter the reason. Thieves always have some sort of excuse as to why.
We are living in a very materialistic world. It’s all about accumulating, and acquisition. Anyone remember the Depeche Mode, mid-80s, song with lyrics that go like this: “The grabbing hands, grab all they can. Everything counts in large amounts…….”. Livin’ large!
Even at the end of the world, when civilization is about to collapse……doesn’t matter. Gotta grab hold of that last Rolodex before dying.
Reminds me of the ancient Egyptians furiously gathering treasures for their tombs to take with them in the afterlife.
You can take it with you—-according to the looters. We are living in a very consumerist/materialistic world. Hip-Hop culture is all about livin’ large…..even at the end.
Things. Stuff. Booty. Incidentals.
—-False Idols……all of it.
Instead of worshiping the real, one true God. We are seeing, right in front of us, the results of a lack of faith, the tearing down of Christianity. Many years of embracing a God-less, liberal, undisciplined life, …..have come home to roost.
AMEN Glamchild…
It doesn’t matter how much the budget for the levees is, who cut what, who shot John…there can always be a worse hurricane, earthquake, flood ect…
all this political blame game about money and the levees, how many national guard troops should be there, means nothing when the bottom line is we are looking at how depraved we in our human flesh, really are and without the Savior, it how we will remain. It comes to human depravity, and all the blaming any and everyone just justifies the behavior.
“Many years of embracing a God-less, liberal, undisciplined life, …..have come home to roost.”
Says it all
On a BRIGHT note…
one of the reporters said that the number one request at the shelter he was in was…BIBLES!!!!
AMEN!
LaShawn, your initial words regarding the looters are absolutely correct. The enthusiasm for looting will decrease if the enthusiasm for preventing it increases.
We are dealing with the entitlement generation here. All those people who grew up hearing “if it feels good, do it” and “but that’s not fair”. But, life IS NOT FAIR. IF you live your life in obedience to the word of God, then you will keep your priorities straight and your conscience clear. And the logic of stealing a television set in a city with no housing standing and no electricity to use it confounds me, I must say.
Meanwhile, I hope we are all praying for everyone in the midst of this devastation and tragedy – that the dead are at peace in the arms of the Lord and that the living find comfort sooner rather than later.
All I can say is that none of us, without actually being there, can honestly say what we would do if we were absolutely terrified and desperate. Don’t get me wrong… I think those that are exploiting this situation by attacking rescue workers and stealing non-essential items should be dealt with very harshly, but as for those looting stores for diapers, medicine, food and clothes? Can you honestly say that if you were in their predicament, you wouldn’t do the same to ensure your survival and that of your friends, neighbors or loved ones? The prevailing attitude here is beginning to approach sanctimonious levels and it’s sickening. Instead of carping on family values (or lack thereof), and turning this into a debate about religion or political parties, couldn’t we at least TRY to figure out a way to help those in need of help?
uppity…
I think many here have said they understand the need for food, diapers, water…
And discussing what has people “any of us” because people do this smae thing NOT in this desperate situation is what is being discussed…
perhaps you want to keep pushing it under the table liek our nation has for so long, but some of us prefer to address the root of the problem also…
and I don’t think anyone here has said DON’T HELP
GEESH
I hope no one gets shot. Loss of life has already been great.
We need to start looking at the future. Soon, tent cities will have to be built, as would be used by the military. Only the Military has the logistical framework to set it up, but they are tangled up in Iraq.
The troops really need to be brought home now. We need them to help rebuild the Gulf Shores.
Kman,
How would you propose stopping a looter, except with the threat of force? And that is the first step, the threat of deadly force.
When the threat alone doesn’t work, you either have to use that force, or show that the threat was empty. It doesn’t take too many gunshots to prove that you’re willing to pull the trigger. And most of these thugs will value their hides more than they value that TV they want. Or they drugs they are stealing from a hospital.
Those shots, by the way, if not enough of a deterent, thats when you start aiming for the looters, not over them.
Anybody remember Road Warrior? Is this where the postmodern paradigm takes us? The old ways are truly best!
Renee
I believe that restoring phone service is essential for better care of the patients in the Hospital. No doubt this was a value judgement. Moving hospitalized patients may NOT be urgent in all cases. Many have been moved.
PS – Being worried about the levies bursting is nothing new – people have worried about this since the city was built. Bush is NOT the first
BushBandit echoes the lament of the loony left…”It’s all Bush’s fault.”
He thinks that if only the Corps of Engineers had been given more money, all would be well. The Corps is a notorious sinkhole of federal money. From 2002 – Washington Times (10/7) “A coalition of liberals and conservatives delayed a House vote on the $3.6 billion Army Corps of Engineers appropriation due to flagrant waste, mismanagement, and environmental abuse. Leadership had attempted to renege on pledges to allow amendments and a full debate of the corps. The Corp’s projects have been widely criticized for their economic and environmental deficiencies, from such groups as the National Academy of Sciences, the Pentagon’s inspector general, the General Accounting Office….”
I have critisized this administration for wasteful spending, but in some areas they have tried to hold the line. The horrible record of the Corps of Engineers justified, IMHO, the reluctance to entrust them with ever-increasing funding levels.
It is easy to second-guess decisions – that’s why Monday morning quarterbacks are in such abundance. Critics like BushBandit, who by his very handle telegraphs his bias, are a dime a dozen. I have looked in vain throughout the blogosphere for his prior warnings that we should be diverting more funds to the Corps for levee building in the Gulf Coast, but apparently his genius is limited to after-the-fact carping.
BTW, this from Carol Platt Liebow “The annual budget for the City of New Orleans is more than $540 million. According to the Bunch piece, the city itself had only kicked in $50 million over 10 years for the levees — which comes out to (that’s right, math whizzes!) a whopping $5 million/year. Now, if the need for levee work was widely known to be as urgent as all of us are supposed to believe now, couldn’t some of that half billion dollar budget gone into it?
La Shawn:
How do you feel about people looting food? I mean not garbage cans filled with food, but just a loaf of bread or water?
I feel that anyone who loots anything other than NECCESSARY amounts of food should be shot on sight. If this looting continues without the “law” stopping it, riots won’t be to far behind.
I see by some comments here that the moon-bats are trying to connect this problem to Bush and Iraq. It would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic. New Orleans’ problems with their levee system has been decades in the making. The local government knew what should be done after the last major hurricane that ripped through New Orleans in 1969. It most assuredly is not Bush’s responsibility, or even the responsibility of the Federal Government. It was the responsibility of local government, who are the ones to point the finger at, if one even needs to be pointed.
Natural disasters happen. That is just a fact of life. Pulling our military out of Iraq to deal with this disaster would not help anything. The logistics of a pullout would have a huge lag time anyway, and those resources directed at facilitating a pullout would then not be available for use. The left needs to grow up and stop the nonsense of connecting Bush and Iraq to every problem we have to deal with. They also need to accept the fact that we are in Iraq and will NEED to stay in Iraq until it is able to stand on its own. Otherwise we will have destabilized the region rather than stabilized it, and we will be faced with an even greater threat from the terrorists that the region seems to spawn.
SCSIwuzzy/34 asks me how I would stop a looter, except with the threat of force.
Well, “threat of force” and “actual force” are two different things. LaShawn is advocating that looters be shot “on sight”, which means you don’t even bother to extend a warning.
That’s summary execution, not maintaining law and order.
I’m not suggesting that law enforcement should holster their weapons or leave them behind; I’m just saying that shooting on sight is just as barbaric as looting for profit (as opposed to looting for survival).
La Shawn, I’ll throw this out to you and your readers. When the World Trade Center was destroyed on 9/11, the crime rate in NYC actually dropped for weeks afterward. When a hurricane, which was of course anticipated, hit New Orleans, looting became rampant. Now does an urban disaster caused by a surprise terrorist attack create one response, while a tracked storm elicits the opposite? I don’t know, I’m not a looter!
So Kman,
As these “looters” for non survival items are shooting at the law enforcement and relief personnel trying to get people out are being shot at, so that the looters can continue stealing…should they, law enforcement, just sit back? While their looting is causing the interruption of saving lives, they should be allowed to just “act a fool” and peoples lives should be put in danger so they can “act a fool”…
Warning?? Why, so their feelings might not get hurt? are you for real? You act like this is tv…peoples lives are in dnager here and you are worrying about warning the looters…how about, YOU LOOT YOU GET SHOT…that is a warning…GEESH
Let’s keep warning the “criminals” as buildings are on fire that perhaps have people still inside (currently being reported)…
utterly jaw dropping some of the touchy feely ideas being thrown out regarding how to deal with those hindering saving lives…unbelievable
Tom (#44)
For one, while law enforcement was certainly busy in Manhattan, the roads were oppen, the lines of communication, while spotty at times, worked and the average NY resident was in his home, and under no threat by staying there.
Down on the gulf coast, the roads are now rivers, the infrastructure is shot, and most of the residents have cleared out.
Comparing 9/11 (and this is not a slam on Tom) to New Orleans doesn’t really work. NYC, except for the immediate area around the WTC, was left untouched, while NO has few if any areas untouched. Also, in NYC, NJ, CT, NY etc were untouched and just a short trip by copter, boat or truck for the relief crews. In LA, anybody that close to NO is nearly as screwed themselves.
Hiroshima seems a more apt comparison of man made destruction to Katrina’s destruction. But that was a different time, and very different culture.
Kman, I’ll give you a rule of thumb
If you are carrying a TV, keg, basketball hoop, cart full of shoes, etc, you are wearing a bullseye.
And if you read LaShawn’s post, it’s pretty clear she doesn’t want it to come to shoot on sight, but pretty soon it’s going to have to happen. The longer the law stands aside, the more emboldened (and armed) these thugs are becoming.
Who cares if there is looting? The insurance companies are the ones who are going to loose. The government has ordered that looters be attacked by police. The looters are going to attack right back. Meanwhile, the victim’s suffering is continued.
Those who condemn the looting and ask for action to be taken against the looters have a warped sense of priorities.
Being an active Black Republican I think no one should be lawless unfortunately there are few stories on people who are patient, watching their children parents, husband and wives die right in front there at the New Orleans Convention Center right now. I am afraid this is going to be a live massacre. All due to “looting” verus “finding”
Apparently white people FIND things:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1
whereas, black people LOOT things:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530
uppitymonkey
“All I can say is that none of us, without actually being there, can honestly say what we would do if we were absolutely terrified and desperate.”
I was not/am not there.
As I said in a previous post, if in those conditions I probably would take food and water enough to survive. And as I said I would leave an IOU with my name and address even if I might never be able to honor it.
But I KNOW WITHOUT ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER that I would not steal from other people, nor take material goods, nor would I terrorize my fellow man.
One other possible exception….if I did not possess one, I might consider taking a gun and ammo (again leaving an IOU) to protect myself from those who do not know how they would react.
Any word on looting at Barnes and Noble and Borders? With no electricity to power TV’s and VCR’s, you’d think people would want something to read.
Martin,
That is truly amazing. Even after 20 years in law enforcement I didn’t know that you can tell the difference between a “looter” and a “finder” by the color of their skin. Yet the photo captioner were able to ascertain that. Actually I am of the mind that both photos depict “finders” as both are only transporting food/beverages. I think the “looters” are the ones with the stereos and TVs in tow.
anarchist…
you totally miss the point of the looters shooting at those personnel trying to save lives…
your analogy makes no sense and is utter garbage
yet again…another unbelievable comment … GEESH
Editor and Publisher – http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313
notes that, beginning in 2003, “the flow of federal dollars toward” flood control in Southeast Lousiana “dropped to a trickle.” The Army Corps of Engineers “never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security — coming at the same time as federal tax cuts — was the reason for the strain.” In addition, “at least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.”
Update: White House Press Secretary Scott McClelland refused to answer questions about this today.
Martin,
funny you bring up the war, whihc will happen, and DOES cost money…
what about the money going to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS…
get a grip
Next the rape and killings that happened inside the dome while people were trying to help will be justified and blamed on the govenment also…
disgusting
Renee,
Sounds like you should be angry at the shooters, not the looters.. GEESH
Today the governor ordered his police force to protect material assets and to stop saving lives.
My point is that materialism (and shooting) works both ways. Who cares about the big screen TVs more? The looters aren’t in a position to help anyone, they have nothing better to do. The police force, on the other hand could do everyone a favor by leaving the looters alone.
anarchist…
the looters stealing tvs are the ones shooting…GEESH
anarchist…
you also must have missed that those trying to get in and save people are being shot at…
so leaving the looters alone doesn’t help at all
Renee I am against illegal immigration – vdare.com
Bush is making all Republicans look bad – he messed on the word Relief he said Release he then said word effort instead of work
Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff told people in New Orleans not to go the Superdome? Where are they suppose to go to be picked up? No ONe is addressing the crisis at the New Orleans Convention CEnter?? Can’t we drop some supplies from the air?? This is turning into the receipe for a massacre from the guntoting 30,000 soliders and deseperation.
Did New Orleans Catastrophe Have to Happen? ‘Times-Picayune’ Had Repeatedly Raised Federal Spending Issues
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313
This administration is just plain stupid.
SCSIwuzzy, my question was why do people behave one way in one disaster, and not in another? I am a native New Yorker, and worked at both towers of the World Trade Center. On 9/11, no one expected the first hijacked plane that crashed into 1WTC, or the second that hit 2WTC, and by then everyone was expecting a third or fourth attack. The antenna on 1WTC crashed about 114 stories when the building collapsed, knocking out communications for days. New Orleans had a CAT 4 hurricane on the way, and everyone but the dead knew it, and could leave. I’ll take Mother Nature over terrorists anytime, and I won’t loot! It’s interesting to me that you bring up our bombing of Hiroshima, and not the suprise attack on Pearl Harbor! Peace through superior firepower!
St Josephs Health System. I wonder what your boss will think of your comment? Can’t wait to find out. – Admin
Your boss at The Carmoon Group will get all three of your comments. Nice going, genius. – Admin
In case it is not mentioned here, most of the people in New Orleans are not looting.
The 9/11 terrorist attack did not render all of Manhattan inhabitable, did not knock out clean water and electricity, although a great many people were displaced. The east coast brownout is a closer comparison because many people were stranded, but that was for a short period of time.
I know it is a difficult thing for an avowed conservative to show compassion, but a disaster is a disaster. If the country could pull together when NYC needed us, certainly it can do so now.
Tom,
Calm down, maybe re-read.
I bring up Hiroshima, not because the US did the bombing, but because of the level of devastation to a civilian locus. Pearl Harbor, while there was civilian damage, the base was the primary target and bore the brunt of that.
I’ll stand by my comment, however, that NYC was far more functional during and after 9/11 than NOLA is now. That is a huge factor, in that the bad actors in NYC knew that the city was still able to respond, and there were plenty of witnesses and people who might step in. There was looting at the time, but it was in comparision minor and limited.
Most of Manhattan was still living and staying on the island.
In NOLA, everything has broken down, and most people, good and bad, have cleared out.
But it seems clear that many stayed for the looting, or upon seeing the easy pickings, joined in.
It was clear days ahead of time that much of the city would be abandoned for days or weeks afterward. As you said, 9/11 gave no warning. Katrina gave warning, and some people used that time to plan.
anarchist,
when the looters are armed, and carjacking vehicles and assaulting hospitals and retirement homes, then law needs to step in. If your friends or relatives died in a hosptial because of looters, would you be OK with it if somebody said “eh, the insurance will cover that”?
SCSIwuzzy asks:
If your friends or relatives died in a hosptial because of looters, would you be OK with it if somebody said “eh, the insurance will cover that�
Can’t we make a distinction between (a) looters and (b) people who commit acts of homocide, and not just assume they are the same?
If the Son of Sam crossed a busy street in order to shoot some innocent person, would you call him a “jaywalker” . . . and urge the police to crack down on jaywalkers?
And semantics aside, what makes you assume that all, or even most, of the Louisiana looters are armed? Obviously some are, but if history is any indication (the Rodney King riots, various blackouts, etc.), most of them probably aren’t.
I know there are some looters that aren’t taking essential items. The ones carrying tv’s or stealing jewelry are stupid and their acts are deplorable.
But if they’re non-violent and they are not carrying weapons then advocating that they be shot on site is nothing but pure barbarism. This stance is sickening.
It’s a good thing God doesn’t desire to kill us all on sight as soon as we sin because we all would be in trouble! God sees all sin as the same (”For the wages of sin is death… romans 6:23) So what do you feel your punishment should be for the sins you committed? Thank God for Jesus! Let’s leave these people the chance to accept Him and pray that they do and leave the judging to Him.
La Shawn is (now?) saying that “Anybody brandishing a gun who’s not wearing a uniform should be shot on sight.” Maybe she was saying that before, but that was my initial take. In any event, the position she takes in her update is much more reasonable, IMHO.
I do wonder, however, what makes her think that “the ‘poor and hungry’ are shooting at rescue workers.” Certainly nothing in the link supports that. I can’t think of any reason why the “poor and hungry” might do that, since it’s not in their best interest.
Clearly, there’s a criminal element running rampant in New Orleans, but haven’t the vast majority of the “poor and hungry” been victimized enough at this point?
Hurricane Katrina
Once again as a black man, I’m embarassed and ashamed of my peers because of how we act with the rest of the country watching. Stealing food to feed your family is one thing but what in the world does one need with a brand new TV if there’s no electr…
Trackback by EddieButler.com
LOL, another black apologist. This is a national disaster we have on our hands and all you care about is how the acts of a very few select black people on camera look to the country. I’m sure 99.9% of the black population in the city are honest, hard working people. You don’t need to think the acts of a few reflect on your race. Whoever’s racist will be racist regardless of what they see on camera.
You know there are 8.8 billion dollars missing in Iraq.
Halliburton has stolen tens of millions of dollars from our country while they feed our troops expired meat with shrapnel in it.
I don’t see anyone here advocating that Halliburton executives or Paul Brehmer be shot on site, but see someone carry a few beers and he’s
got a bullseye on his back. You pro-violence Christians all need to check yourself.
My own perspective:
In a situation such as this, the military should immediately take over. Looters should be shot on sight, regardless of their targeted booty. Stores that have food, drinks, and other necessities (first aid, etc.) should be seized and their contents distributed by the emergency management personnel. After the crisis is over, repayments can be made to the store owners whose property was seized such that the blow isn’t overwhelming to them or to their insurance companies.
4. BURNIN’ AND LOOTIN’ [Bob Marley]
This morning I woke up in a curfew;
O God, I was a prisoner, too – yeah!
Could not recognize the faces standing over me;
They were all dressed in uniforms of brutality. Eh!
How many rivers do we have to cross,
Before we can talk to the boss? Eh!
All that we got, it seems we have lost;
We must have really paid the cost.
(That’s why we gonna be)
Burnin’ and a-lootin’ tonight;
(Say we gonna burn and loot)
Burnin’ and a-lootin’ tonight;
(One more thing)
Burnin’ all pollution tonight;
(Oh, yeah, yeah)
Burnin’ all illusion tonight.
Oh, stop them!
Give me the food and let me grow;
Let the Roots Man take a blow.
All them drugs gonna make you slow now;
It’s not the music of the ghetto. Eh!
NyBlues, I’m with you.
This is the worst disaster I’ve observed in my life. We’ve never seen an entire big city immobilized for any reason. The lessons, I’m afraid, will be lost in this “law and order” crusade.
“You pro-violence Christians all need to check yourself.- NY Blue”
Well Said…
As to Eddie Butler, I wonder if he thinks white people care about what black people think about them when they do the incessant stupid crap they do? I can’t stand black inferiority complexes.
Kman,
Where did I ever say most or all looters about anything? Armed or not, justified or not, should be shot or not?
You need to read what people say, not what you want to argue about.
The men that looted the hospital were… looters! That happened to be armed! The carjackers are looters too! And…. armed.
Heres the problem of not opposing looters: the worst elements become emboldened. When nobody tries to control or prevent the looting of TVs, it move up to other things. Like a hospitals pharmacy. Like emergency and relief vehicles and supplies. Like another citizen’s generator or food supply. And when this isn’t opposed, it moves on to other things, like rape, murder etc.
What line needs to be crossed before you want order enforced?
As for the arguement that taking police and soldiers for law enforcement is taking lives (since search and rescue is being impeded), that is only somewhat true. I don’t blame the police or soldiers or their commanders, I blame the criminals that make it a requirement. As long as these thugs are running around, the other survivors are at risk. The ones taking shots at emergency vehicles and helicopters are puting the trapped, dying and the brave (drivers, pilots, medics) at risk. And the sooner they are under control, the sooner the important work of rescue and recovery can move forward effectively.
Nyblues, do you have a point, or does all evil in this world get linked, in your mind, to haliburton and bush? Have you anything contsructive to add or do, or is venting your spleen about the administration and iraq all you have?
Maybe they should be shot. At least then we’d all know that our donation checks aren’t being used to help these scum.
The looters from the Los Angeles Rodney King riots were never prosecuted: Maxine Waters wouldn’t allow it. Grrr
No punishment, and they get access to all the charity money too.
Worse than the Jihads.
Who said anything about “white people”? I’m talking about ALL of America and not just “white America”.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: We (black Americans, that is) will always be treated like second class citizens in this country if we continue to act like second class citizens. We need to show even ourselves that we can behave in a civil manner. We (black Americans) have a collective self-esteem problem, you know. Ah nevermind.
Because I’m a black man, I care about how others of my race portray themselves because it affects how ALL black people are treated. To me, it’s not a whole lot different than my kids or even somebody in my family acting a fool and embarassing me in public.
“I’m sure 99.9% of the black population in the city are honest, hard working people. You don’t need to think the acts of a few reflect on your race.”
nyblues, point taken. I just wish every American thought the same way. I’m just tired of being treated and stereotyped based on the actions of a few bad apples.
You were doing OK until you insulted the “blog hostess.”- Admin
ROFL
My first laugh of the day
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