If You Haven’t Gotten the Message Yet…

I support the idea of homeschooling, but what about missing out on interacting with other kids? I think that’s important to a child’s development as well esp. when I read or hear about these child TV stars who grow up to commit all sorts of crimes.

Reading articles linked in the post would be helpful:

And comparing Hollywood child actors with children taught at home by their parents is…bizarre. – Admin

I’m glad that Mr Schwartz recognizes that we atheists run everything. The Courts (Roy Moore is one of our double agents), Congress (You think Santorum came up with “man-on-dog” himself? Nah, that came up a joke after too many joints and Chee-tos), the President (after all, his support for Intelligent Design didn’t say that God was the designer), and so on.

Public schools have something noteworthy in common with Congressmen: Even people who’d condemn them in general will usually tell you that theirs is doing a good job. It’s worth a lot of thought.

An alternative would be private religious schools in your area. They would be immune from the public school restrictions as parents choose to have their children attend…

Lets see Neudork reach into the religious schools and ban the phrase Under God in Our churches…

If judges reached into our churches to tell us how to say the pledge …or bette yet pray, there would not be any safe place for those bastards to
hide….

Has anyone given any thought to the Gay Marriage laws and the possibility that there might be a lawsuit filed by some creep who wants to force his / her church to perfom a gay marriage when the act is not sanctioned by that religion?

nocoen, we’ll most likely see all that and more in the next ten years if we American Christians don’t fight back to keep our rights. They’re already trying to tell preachers that they can’t say homosexuality is a sin.

Army NCO guy, aren’t you just asking for a voucher program?

This may be old hat, but homeschooling does not work for families that either need both parents’ incomes or are single-parent families. Maybe I missed something.

I’ve mentioned before the difficulty in providing quality high school science education via home school, as well as the challenge of providing quality foreign language training. I know I would have trouble with both of these, and probably with calculus, etc. Now, I know there are materials to support the effort, but it is not feasible for everyone.

A better solution would probably be free or very low cost private/parochial schools. If conservatives and churches are serious, they will put their money where their mouths are. Just my two cents.

Disclosure: I am Catholic and a Republican. I went to college but have forgotten almost everything I don’t use at work. I have two kids, aged 4 and 1, who don’t attend school yet.

I was raised as a Catholic by parents who attended only Catholic schools. My Dad’s cousins are priests and nuns. However, as I grew older and started to ask questions about my religion, I came to the conclusion that there is no higher being(s) (my parents are no longer believers either).

I am honest with my three children (12, 13, 19) about my beliefs but encourage them to ask questions and believe what they think makes sense for them. I prefer that they think for themselves rather than be brainwashed either way. They are free to attend church or Sunday school with friends. I have no problem with the Pledge or Christmas carols in school (we sing them at home too), neither will make my children Christian, only insecurity in your beliefs makes you fear that words will convert you. When they grow up, and if they decide that I’ve been wrong and that there really is a God, that will be OK too as long as they are tolerate towards those that don’t believe the same way.

I have worked to instill strong moral principles in my children. I don’t allow them to see movies or play video games that contain sex, nudity or violence, they’re not allowed to have belly-button piercings or wear indecent clothing. I don’t let them listen to Eminem and his ilk. We discuss these issues frequently since they see them all of the time at their schools. Yes, I have considered home schooling but decided supplementing school worked better for us. So far, my kids have not succumbed to peer pressure and are quite proud of their independence.

I believe that only science should be taught in science class. If you want your children to learn about Intelligent Design or Adam and Eve, that’s what Sunday school or Catechism is for. Religion classes are also acceptable in a social studies context, I enjoyed my World Religions class in high school. Non-denominational prayers at graduation, led by students are acceptable as long as no one is forced to participate.

My children have been excluded from activities and ridiculed because they don’t believe in Jesus although they don’t do that to their Christian friends. Intolerance comes from both sides.

I think schools should focus on math and science, reading, English, history, geography, and all of the other subjects so many Americans don’t learn well, if at all. Battles over a word here or there are a waste of time, money and focus.

I think more people need to follow the Golden Rule (a rule in similar form in many religions and cultures) instead of trying to get their own way. Our schools, country, and world would be better off.

La Shawn, everyone has a story; here’s mine. I went to a public junior high school,(now they call them “Middle Schools”). It looked like a prison then, and does now, only lacking razor-wire and guard towers. I cut classes by hiding out in the library, and I did read law books. The bullies, beat-ups, hoods, whatever, respected me, because if they got in trouble, I could recite the teachers manual. Now is that what my parents paid their property taxes, to send sonny boy to school to learn? Socialization, I’m an expert!

Thank Goodness for the CA circuit court. A decision that accounts for the fact we do not live in a theocracy. What business does the state have putting the acknowledgement of “God” into the curriculum? The answer is none.

Well done!

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned DidToday (http://www.didtoday.com) yet. It’s a system to help homeschooling parents keep track of their children’s assignments and academic progress. It was created by well-known conservative bloggers Kim and Connie du Toit, who are homeschoolers themselves and based it on the system they created for their own children. I know that, if I had children that I were homeschooling, I’d use it. (When I first heard the product described, I wanted to tell them, “You are (blankety-blank) geniuses!” I’ve only had that reaction to a product a few times in my life…and one of those times, I wound up getting a job at the company in question.) It definitely should be linked as a homeschooling resource; I think it’ll make homeschooling practical for people who wouldn’t otherwise think it would be.

BOOK – The Socializaton Trap by Rick Boyer, available on Amazon. Some may believe that his views are somewhat weird but for the most part he’s right on the money. SOcialization is one of the biggest hurdles HS parents face – meaning others accuse them of depriving their kids from being around their peers. It’s just not so.
I agree with you JUGGLER!

Well said juggler. So far my grade school son has learned the F-bomb, the N-word, and just today learned how to access porn on the internet.

I’m really glad he’s not missing out on getting “socialized.”

About worries in regards to high school home education…
There is a misconception that the majority of children are home schooled k-12. I hope to do that, and if I do, I’ll be in a small minority. Children go into, and leave, their home school at different grades. I grew up in a town in North Florida which had probably one of the highest home school rates per capita, so I know many home school families. I found that a number of parents, who tended to be very average in intelligence, do judge themselves inadequate at the high school level and stop homeschooling that child. Most I knew supplemented, and supplemented more, the older a child got.

One family I knew had their teen boys taking science and Spanish lessons from former teachers; I was their tutor in Spanish.
My niece left her high school halfway through 10th grade and was home schooled by her dad who retired early due to disability. She was a very average student and she graduated the very next year. She always said it was because the immaturity of the other students was difficult to handle, which may be, but I just think she wanted the heck out of there, but wasn’t willing to quit like her sister.

Remember, we are now into the 2nd generation of homeschooling in this country and things have turned out extremely well for most.

As a former homeschoolee, I would have to agree with juggler. I missed out on so much!

I was homeschooled for 4 years in highschool/junior high and am SO thankful to my mom for taking the time to do so. I did not suffer from a lack of socialization. In fact, my social life improved! We met with other homeschoolers in our town for weekly soccer or basketball practices, met at a church for Spanish lessons, and even had field trips and other fun events to attend. As a fast learner, homeschooling was great for me as I did not have to wait on other students to catch up before moving on to the next topic. Or, for those topics I had a little more problems with, we were able to take extra time to make sure I completely understood them before continuing.

As for diversity, in my experience, homeschool families comprised all spectrums of the monetary scale and I also knew several children who were handicapped and being schooled by their parents. Everyone was welcome and participated in events together and without ridicule.

When my daughter is older, my husband and I will strongly consider homeschooling her.

Heather – Thanks for telling my story nearly to a T with the minor exceptions of 1) I’m a boy, 2) had only one fight, 3) I quit high school in my senior year, joined the navy for four years, finished high school, college, graduate school and never regretted it.

Like you, I was poorly ’socialized’ because I was an immigrant kid, spoke no, then broken, English for several months, and wore funny clothes that my mom patched because we couldn’t afford new. Still I managed to grow up conservative, Christian, educated, and successful.

Socialization, like self-esteem, is way overplayed. What did the early Americans do for socialization of their kids, those who lived in the boondocks? They got to the nearest town perhaps once a month or maybe once a year. And self-esteem doesn’t grow from being told ‘nice try’ after you miserably failed. It comes from accomplishing something on your own.

I am not familiar enough with home schooling to make intelligent comments on its merits vis a vis, but in terms of education it can’t possibly be worse than public schools. The socialization objection is a red herring.

I am public school educated, as are my parents, as is my wife, as are our children. Come to think of it, so are most college students. We really are good people. 8o)

Regarding God, just as you are your children’s primary educator, you are also their spiritual guides. Five days of no mention of God at school should not be construed as anti-God, because after all, if you bless your meals and otherwise pray, if you attend temple, mosque or church, I think your children will have a healthy enough concept of God that the public school will not harm their beliefs.

I recently learned of a free online homeschool curriculum called Ambleside Online. It’s based on the methods of a British woman who lived some one hundred years ago, Charlotte Mason. I recently interviewed a woman who is on the advisory for Ambleside–they’ve put together an emergency curriculum for homeschoolers displaced by Hurricane Katrina. If you’d like to know more,
go to http://www.amblesideonline.org

And the bible message does assert…

it is the parents responsibility first and foremost (not a public school, not a Christian school…but the mother…and that’s a whole other feminazi can of worms)…

so I guess what it boils down to is a matter of priorities for all those who put career before family (I need a lexus and not a point a to b car)….etc., etc., etc…

I am a college educated person, but I would be afraid to home school my children. Not because I don’t have knowledge to impart, but “teaching” is a skill that needs to be honed. I have no problem with home schooling. I certainly have no problems with private schools. My kids go to Catholic School now, but I do worry about some of the home schooled kids. I think there ought to be a universal standard (i.e. a test or examination) that will certify a parent to home school. I know of a woman who had a high school equivalency that found fault with public schools and was teaching three of her children at home.

While I agree with Woody in post #40 about the five families that probably shouldn’t homeschool, I think a distinction needs to be made about the families that HS for educational purposes, versus religious/moral purposes, versus recognized special needs. While the fruit borne from some trees may not be obviously good quality, I believe the general principle of homeschooling, that is, fulfilling your parental role of primary educator, is validated in almost every case. Again, I agree; sometimes it may not look that way.

My disagreement comes when Woody comes when he talks about education being a civic duty. Exactly when did that come into the picture? At what point was it figured that the masses are uneducated, and the government needed to step in? I object strongly to my taxes being used to educate someone else. My supposed indirect benefit, that those around me receive an education, is neutered by the amount of spending, which takes more taxes, which kills the benefit. I wish every school was private, and market-driven, but I’m a raging capitalist.

This is always fun to talk about, and yes, the socialization myth is really just a back-door trap question, asked by parents who feel that THEIR socialization will be threatened. CN

When a one size fits all solution is tendered I cringe. The Scriptural mandate that we are to “train up a child in the way he should go” is best translated “according to his bent.”

Parents need to be discerning in their approach to each individual child. Some can profit from homeschooling, but others will thrive best in a private or public school environment. Often the decision will have to revisited depending on the “stage” a child is going through. But the most important constant is; involved, spiritually mature, parenting.

Home schooling is no panacea. It’s also not an option in most cases for minority children who are poor and lack properly prepared parents to guide them as their teachers.

Putting all the salt in the salt shaker may also deprive children from unbelieving families from ever getting the opportunity to see the Message being lived out. I wouldn’t, and have not, allowed fear or the repulsion I feel about the culture, be the final arbiter as to how I will, and have, raised our children.

Coherent analysis on Homeschooling– by La Shawn

Maribel Hernandez

By way of response to Chris Naaden (#60):

Please see my updated post on this topic. Thanks!

The Pledge debate has dragged on for so long that symbolism now seems to take precedence over substance. In other words, many Christians seem to think reflexively that if “under God” is permitted then they “win” and if it’s prohibited the opposition “wins.” Just how important is this issue when much larger social and cultural problems need our attention? Can’t we move on? Would we really be conceding anything if we just let this go?

In response to comment #58: Homeschooling is not really akin to “teaching” (i.e., lecturing a classroom of 30 students). The only advantage to teacher certification would be learning “classroom control” techniques, which aren’t really necessary in the home with one’s own children.

Homeschooling is really more akin to tutoring. We have five children and are homeschooling three of them right now. The wonderful thing about it is being able to sit one-on-one with each child and explain their own math, language, and other subjects just as he or she needs it explained. The home environment allows us to stop where we need to and look things up, find other resources if ours aren’t working, and supplement with outside stuff, like co-ops and other tutors.

For instance, we read our history at home (Susan Wise Bauer’s Story of the World series–highly recommended, even as a bedtime read-aloud for public schoolers!). But once a week, my children join two other families in a history co-op so we can do some related projects and activities together. They get to dig a little deeper that way.

With *so many* resources (we’re talking almost an overabundance) out there for homeschooling families, there really are very few reasons why a person of average intelligence and armed with a high school diploma cannot teach his or her child at home. In the main, desire and opportunity (that is, lack thereof) are the only two factors that prevent homeschooling. But, as others have commented, often even single parents manage just fine.

On the high school level, community colleges are a good resource for higher math and science courses. Our local liberal arts college allows homeschoolers to audit such courses.

I am not necesarily a “math whiz.” I did just fine in math in school, made A’s, but I’m not sure how much I recall. I’m not a bit worried about schooling through high school, however. I’ve already been looking over high school resources in catalogs and finding excellent courses in algebra, chemistry, etc. I look forward to relearning these subjects right along with my children! If we hit a snag, we can always call the curriculum author or hire a tutor. (Many of our current resources provide a “help” number to call.)

I already have a far more thorough understanding of world history now as a direct result of my homeschool, and I’m sure after I graduate my first student, the same will be true of math and science! We never stop learning!

In response to comment #73.

Susanna,

You raise some very valid points about teaching being strategies in “classroom control”. However, I think that a standardized test that shows an individual’s basic knowledge, and competency in math, writing, and verbal reasoning ought to establish a baseline for who is competent. A High School diploma indicates that you have passed through 12 years of public schooling, but it doesn’t speak to your curriculum, or how well that you did. Could we not draw the line if a person was in special education and reads on a 6th grade level, yet wants to teach his or her child at home? That could be very detrimental to the development of a child. Additionally, I think we may need to at least evaluate children to see if they have special needs that should be addressed before they begin home schooling. Some problems can be identified at an early age. I say again, though, I am all for home schooling if the environment will benefit the child. I would just worry about situations that could prove to be a detriment to the child. If it were financially possible, I wouldn’t be absolutely opposed to my wife to be able to not work and home school ours.

Weird. I’m agnostic, and I love the pledge. I don’t say “under god” when I say it. I just skip it. And don’t throw a hissy fit.

Why is it that so many people think the world should cater to their whims?

I was sent through Catholic schools up until 7th grade, and switched to a public school when I was in 8th grade. It was one of the biggest shocks of my life, as I went from an environment where socioeconomic lines were blurred to one where those who were poor (such as our family) had it ground in their faces on a daily basis by students and teachers. I don’t believe that the exposure to diversity at public schools is necessarily ‘healthy’. It may or may not have built character, but it certainly taught me how to fight and made me incredibly bitter all the way through high school. I was converted to Christ during drill sergeatn school in the Army and don’t think that I am ’scarred’ or anything like that, but I know at least one of my brothers was. He didn’t know how to fight back and pretty much spent middle school and high school getting made to feel like garbage and being beat up.

The reason why such diversity isn’t necessarily good is that while you may (or may not) have diversity, there are no overarching ethical guidelines as to how those from other races or economic strata should be viewed. As a Christian, I believe all people are created in the image of God and deserve respect. I recognize that it is God that makes us who we are, and therefore those of us who may be born into more fortunate situations have no right to lord it over others, as if we had anything to do with it. But how do you REALLY teach respect for others in an environment where you can’t even mention God’s name unless it is followed by an explicative? What inherent value do people have in an atheistic worldview? None.

Couple this with the fact that liberals have turned the public school system into a factory for mediocrity and ammorality, and you’ve got a system which fosters and produces garbage. I will never send my children to public schools, any sacrifice is worth it. They can socialize with Christian children of any economic strata and race and spend their formative years learning how to treat people as Christ would, instead of being taught we are the chance result of a fairy tale called evolution.

You guys make it seem like being a christian AND a product of a public school are impossibilities.

And that home schooling is for wimps with fragile self images. People with common sense realize that is just as preposterous as public schools producing nothing but garbage.

Email or call your senators to support the Pledge Protection Act of 2005 – S.1046. I just did.

In response to Dkelsmith:

1. Even if one did poorly in school, if one is of average intelligence it is still possible to homeschool. Right now, all of my resources are scripted. Anyone who can read could use them. It’s simply a matter of sitting down with the child and reading through the lesson. In the elementary years it takes 15-20 minutes to read through one lesson and do copywork. And this is a more rigorous “classical” resource. It really isn’t rocket science.

2. Which brings up the point once again that, no matter how old we are, learning never stops. It matters very little “how much you know” before you start homeschooling. “Content” is far less important than desire. Even if a person never got grammar down pat, reading through grammar lessons with the child will solidify it for him. I can reel off all the helping verbs now that I’ve taught them to my children. Could I do that as a grade-schooler? No way! But my kids can. I have an M.A., yet apparently had a lot of holes my knowledge of history. I have learned so incredibly much just reading history aloud to my children! Did they teach me this stuff in school? No. And many of my years were spent in private, Christian schools. Just today, I learned what the Augean stables were simply by reading The Corner and doing a Google search to satisfy my curiosity. (What an apt description of the U.N., by the way.) So, how much a person knows when they start out has little to do with it.

3. Ultimately, children belong to parents, not to the state. This is true no matter how parents choose to educate their children. And the outcome of a child’s education rests squarely on the parents’ shoulders. They cannot pass that buck to anyone else, not teachers or administrators or the government. The problem with placing contingencies on homeschooling is…who decides? Ultimately, it should be the parent who decides and, de facto, it really is. Look at Ben Carson, the pediatric neurosurgeon. His mother was an illiterate domestic worker, yet she managed to instill desire to succeed in her sons. They went to public schools, but she required more of them than the schools did and believed in them…believed they could do it. The bottom line is, it’s up to parents no matter what–home, state school, private school, whatever. We can’t pass that off to anyone else. I’m with the person who commented earlier that the “public” (that is, parents) need to take back their schools. For more information about intrusive government oversight over “special needs” kids, just visit HSLDA.org and read a few of their horror stories. Whose kids are these? The state’s?

I take issue with Post # 61, who says that homeschooling is not an option for most minority children, because their parents are unprepared.

That may have been true 10 years ago, when you didn’t have some of the online tools that help parents. However, today, there is no excuse not to homeschool. Low income is no barrier at all. When we homeschool my niece, many times we’ve got two and three other classmates that join us for lessons.

There’s always room for one more.

Our homeschool field trips always include at least seven, or eight other children in the community. None of us are wealthy.

We are part of a community homeschooling network, with shared instruction, that takes into account working parents and busy schedules. The online resources are tremendous, and in many cases….free, and/or can be checked-out from the Library.

Many of the homeschool-compatible Christian Academies offer scholarships, and van pool transportation.

A first step for poor and minority parents who feel they have nowhere to turn—- is the local churches. Because the whole homeschooling movement started, pretty much, in the church……the local churches can connect minority parents with the appropriate resources, and community networks to support the children, and aid working parents.

I suggest all working and minority parents quickly get hooked up with a local church and inquire about shared classes, flexible group homeschooling, and part-time Christian Academy scholarships.

There’s no excuses for poor, working, or minority parents. It can be done.

#91, are you serious? What kind of poor, minority people do you know or live around? Many cannot even read at a third grade level. They often wouldn’t know the first thing about networking or working in a homeschooling organization. To suggest they are without excuse just doesn’t jibe with the facts. You can’t turn a systemic evil of 3 or 4 generations around overnight.

While hypothetically it can be done, practically it is a huge mountain to climb.

Glamchild: What are you doing . . .

I’m glad you asked. I worked in an urban church in a very large city for over 20 years. During that time I encouraged at least a dozen individuals to commit to teaching in some of our communities worst public schools. We also networked the hundreds of Christians who are part of the Public School systems (principals, teachers, counselors etc.) and trained them to use existing laws that allowed them to bring their faith into the public schools as well as the educational component of tutoring and mentoring that these children are lacking. When one lives in a neighborhood that has generational dysfunction you employ a multi-faceted approach to addressing the need.

In addition to starting a couple of charter schools, after-school programs, sports programs and parenting programs I’d say we tried to at least put a finger in the veritable dike that exists. If I list anything else, it would sound like bragging and that is not my intention.

As my previous post (61) makes clear, one size doesn’t fit all in my opinion.