Monday, October 22: See my review of Joseph Phillips’s book, He Talk Like A White Boy.
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Previous post: Reclaiming Our Destiny
No, no, no, Joseph! Porky Pig stutters, not Elmer Fudd!
I won’t give a play-by-play of the discussion, but I’ll make a few comments. The program could have gone on for several days. There’s never enough to time to say everything you want to say in group discussions, of course.
The conversation needs to be ongoing to be effective, which is why I spend a lot of time writing on this blog. We all seem to be locked in our respective positions and end up going around and around on the same issues. However…
Contrary to popular opinion, there is a such thing as absolute truth, and I believe God gave us enough information and brain power to determine the truth. When it comes to social policy, for example, the key is to determine what works and what doesn’t, what brings out the best in people, and what brings out the worst. It’s not enough to say “It’s the right thing to do,” or “This is what people need.” You must be able to demonstrate the “rightness” of it.
For example, we’ve had 40 years of well-intentioned and “right” social programs, and what’s the result? The black family is in tatters, the illegitimacy rate is scandalous, and people who once considered race-based categorization absolutely abhorrent embrace it with vigor and demand more. Something went seriously wrong.
This is what people have been reduced to. The very idea that any of us is owed something from the government other than its duty to govern and protect is appalling to me. Books have been and will continue to be written about this subject in an attempt to locate the exact point where America’s concept of what government is supposed to do radically changed. It has been to our detriment in general and black Americans’ in particular to expect the government to feed, clothe, and house us. It couldn’t be more apparent as we watch generation after generation born into unstable, disorganized, and undisciplined surroundings.
I don’t know where you people live or where you’re from, but it is quite unusual to meet a black child from an intact family, and that’s a darn shame. I lay the blame squarely on the federal government for giving young black women disincentives to marry by making welfare contingent on whether there’s a man in the house. But thanks to welfare reform, fiercely resisted by Democrats, the government no longer increases welfare payments with each baby. However, the generational damage has been done.
It’s ignorant and pointless to harp on racism, whether it exists in reality or in your own head. I always have and will continue to resist black liberals’ demands that I take whites to task for past grievances.
As I said yesterday and on this blog all the time, racism is so far down the list of concerns for the average person, it’s laughable to even factor it in at all.
Disagree, if you will. That’s the beauty of our God-given intellect. Reasonable people can disagree; my hope is for us to get to a point where we can discuss and debate without resorting to the unoriginal and increasingly tiresome personal attacks. Anti-intellectualism and resistance to sound and rational argumentation should be criminal, and if I were queen of the world, they would be. 
One more thing before I sign off. I sometimes hear black liberals say, “I’m independent, actually. Unlike you, I don’t tow the party line or align myself with a political agenda.” After I’m done laughing at the pseudo-righteous pomposity of such a statement, I discover that the person making it is usually a registered liberal Democrat.
I’m honest about who I am. I am independent, but I don’t use the word the way some do (i.e., moderate, centrist, progressive). I take an unambiguous stand on just about everything, and like it or not, there are only two viable parties to choose from. While I am not a Republican, I do for vote for them. And I am as conservative as they come, and unlike some liberals, not ashamed to shout it from the rooftops. The so-called I-don’t-tow-the-party-line types are often thinly-disguised Republican-hating liberals. Nothing more, nothing less. The righteous pose is embarrassingly asinine.
If you disagree with my opinions and want to comment on this blog for the first time, please read more than one or two posts. The archives go back to November 2003. Some people (too many) are lazy and won’t make the effort, so my expectations are very low. And that’s a shame. Don’t make assumptions about me, and remember your manners. If you want to attack the argument, go for it. If you want to attack me, get lost.
You can download the panel discussion here. I can’t get it to work; perhaps you’ll have better luck.
Related post: Reclaiming Our Destiny
Update: A commenter writes:
I dug through cspan’s terrible web coding (broken JS and whatnot..). Here is a direct link:
rtsp://video.c-span.org/15days/e101105_vanguard.rmJust take that link and paste it directly into real player. I am using this link to play the conference right now.
Update II: In Authentically Black, John McWhorter wrote about something most blacks can relate to but few will admit. No matter how untouched by discrimination or successful some blacks may be — Ivy League-educated, upper-class, etc., there’s still an urge to keep “whitey on the hook,” to never let white people forget our historical grievances. It doesn’t matter that the guilty whites are dead or dying. No matter how young or old, white Americans must always be reminded of black enslavement and discrimination. The urge is pathological.
I put a twist on the usual race-whining: I don’t let blacks “off the hook,” and my detractors can rage and gnash teeth all they want. Shelby Steele talked about blacks’ responsibility to better themselves despite racism and go after their dreams. If you haven’t listened to the panel discussion, you really ought to.
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La Shawn,
The sad thing is, although the government initiated welfare reform, the many STATES still have a form of welfare that is reminiscent of the 70’s and 80’s (hey my cousin is living proof that PA still gives houses and money to women who have children out of wedlock and DO NOT work). So I guess, although the government meant well, they left to much up to the states and the states have failed to reform enough (which we all saw evident it what played out in NO right before our eyes in the aftermath of the hurricane).
Anyway, thanks for hanging in there and continuing to bring the TRUTH to the foreground.
People are horrified that the Chinese government rewards people for having one child, but the U.S. government has been rewarding women for having as many fatherless kids as possible.
Hi LaShawn–
love your blog.
I’m curious to know if you met Shelby Steele, and if so, what you thought of him. I greatly admired his book “Content of Our Character.” He came to speak on Duke’s campus back in the 90’s when I was there, and was exceedingly intelligent, thoughtful, and reasoned. But during Q&A, he was shouted down and insulted (pretty much everything short of a pie in the face) by the black student community of another nearby university. It was an appalling way to treat such a powerful and dignified speaker.
But I’m guessing it wasn’t the first or last time he’s gotten such treatment.
Anyway, just wondering if you got to meet him.
Jen M
North Carolina
La Shawn:
Congrats on a job well done.
Renee:
I must disagree on “leaving too much to the States”.
Tight Federal control may be “what the people need” or what is “rightness”, but the Constitution leaves much to the States.
This is a good thing. If one State (NY, CA, MA are famous for having the “best State welfare”). This allows mobility - you have a choice, to live in a State that extracts less taxes from productive people to subsidize fatherless children.
I may still be banned but I at least wanted you to know this. I listened to the panel and I have to say that it was better than I expected. I don’t think Jesse Peterson made a good moderator but I won’t harp on that.
I think everyone did a good job of articulating what it was that made them black conservatives and their principles. I was glad that Joe checked Rev. Peterson when in insuated that black people didn’t know how to govern. I agree with Joe is that the principle in which one governs is the primary factor not race. And he is correct to say that if it is race, then there is no point in voting for a black Republican. I’m that is what Jesse meant, but he has a way of generalizing that turns folks off.
The place where it fell short is in the discussion of policies as it pertains to the black community. The panel spent more time looking back - the problem I have with black liberal politicians, and not looking forward and discussing some policies. Government plays a role in our lives and there needs to be a discussion on what black conservatives want government to do.
I also think conservatives need to spend less time talking about black leadership. That is such a wash because I can tell you, Jesse Peterson spends more time talking about Jesse Jackson than anyone I know. Jesse Jackson is a public figure - nothing else. The media and black conservatives make him out to be something that he isn’t.
Overall, I think it was a good panel. I especially enjoyed Mr. Phillips. I think if more black people heard him talk about black conservatives, more black people would listen.
You held your own but I don’t think you spoke enough. You need to be more aggressive and get your points.
I dug through cspan’s terrible web coding(broken JS and whatnot..). Here is a direct link:
rtsp://video.c-span.org/15days/e101105_vanguard.rm
Just take that link and paste it directly into real player. I am using this link to play the conference right now.
Saw the program yesterday and was pleased at the highly intelligent answers to all Rev. Petersen’s questions. Really made me think. As i noted in my own blog after the Katrina disaster, if we refuse to admit there’s a problem, then it will never get solved. We cry racism and its Bush’s fault, and the people gone on suffering. I appreciate those who tell the truth.
Hi Lashawn
I agree with your point about folks who claim to be independent. I am also independent, but I always state that I am a Black Conservative. I vote for Republicans because unfortunately there is no other alternative. The bottom line is that if one is a Christian, they should use a Biblical worldview when voting. They should examine issues through the lens of the Bible. If a candidate or political party advocates policies that are in opposition to Biblical principles, I can not in good conscience vote for them. In closing, I would like to leave a para phase of a quote by Jesus I use when I debate Black Christian Liberals.
“What does it profit a black man to gain affirmative action, jobs, and government programs and lose his soul?”
Ramie
With all due respect Ms. Barber, that discussion was a farce just like the first one. Do you think any of the people that are affected negatively by these programs were watching? Did you ask Shelby Steele when was the last time he went into the black community and had this discussion? You are having the discussion with the wrong people. Take it into the community and keep going back. I do it every day with my mentor program. My people do not want to hear Peterson calling them evil and immoral. Next time you talk to your friends, tell them to get off the television and go into the community if they really want to help.
I just might invite you and your friends to Boston so you can see what I do.
EBS
Sorry EBS, but you don’t get to decide for an entire race what counts as helping others. Some do it with the printed word; others with speech. Some are hands-on; many others do it with a combination of things. Perhaps you ought to tell “your people” they’ve no reason to be upset by Peterson’s statements if they’re not evil and immoral. When thug rappers talk about “ho’s,” I’m not offended because they’re not referring to me. - Admin
La Shawn,
There is no such thing as ABSOLUTE truth? I may have to quote you on my blog!!!
Great job, by the way. I agree with James. We didn’t hear enough from you!!!
LaShawn, Historically the black churches shaped and held the black community together despite the hardships and anti-black political environment. You may blame the government for welfare failures but I believe bad choices in life come from a failure of churches and parents to allow a culture to develop which embraces those bad choices; and the democrats obviously didn’t want to do something that might disturb their ‘bloc vote’.
I read a book written by a man who walked the length of Japan. When he reached the southern end he was met by a reporter who asked … “how did you find the Japanese people?….Which ones? he replied.
I think the phrase is ‘toe the line’ not ‘tow the line’
I love your smile, it makes me smile.
#10 Mike M. — I think you’ve misquoted La Shawn. She said, “…there is a such thing as absolute truth,…”
It’s a bit grammatically wonky, but she didn’t say “no such.”
Jack Cate said
You may blame the government for welfare failures but I believe bad choices in life come from a failure of churches and parents to allow a culture to develop which embraces those bad choices; and the democrats obviously didn’t want to do something that might disturb their ‘bloc vote’.
I say
Nonsense. The church speaks out against this every Sunday and every time I attend a funeral. You are clueless on this. Visit any black church and I am sure you will not hear a sermon on: Peep having out of wedlock babies, keep taking drugs and turn away from the Lord. The traffic jam on Sundays is not black people smoking crack in the middle of the street. These are god loving people going to hear the word of God.
Oops…I really did mess up. I misread the “a” as a “no.” I suppose I’ve got the egg on my face.
Well said, La Shawn.
The photos look great - you look calm, cool, collected and confident … and ready to kick liberal bootie
Shelby Steele’s comments on responsibility and what was missing when President Johnson decided to “help” us was dead on. That was the missing ingredient. Everyone knew the whites responsibility but the black person was left out as if they were an invalid.
Overall, great dialgue going on.
I can’t get two things to click together in my head. First you said “It has been to our detriment in general and black Americans’ in particular to expect the government to feed, clothe, and house us.” and continued to say we shouldn’t expect the government to fix our personal problems or something to that effect.
Then you said “I lay the blame squarely on the federal government …” For doing too much, the government incentives are skewed towards self-destructive behavior, to be sure.
But at some point in the “blame the government” game, even conservatives need a wake-up call sometimes. Is it really about individual responsibility or not?
Someday, somewhere I will get a good read on just what characterizes “the black community.” I would like to take a trip there and see what goes on.
In the meantime as long as Shelby Steele and LaShawn Barber keep their synapses firing, we will all be making progress.
La Shawn,
I like your definition of “independent.” Would you consider yourself a “conservative independent?” I consider myself a “liberal independent,” though many of my politics lately have leaned more toward “libertarian independent.” I, too, am annoyed by the overuse of the word independent today. I think it should only be used in the sense of identifying how someone is registered to vote as opposed to one’s politics. My politics aren’t “independent.” My vote registration card IS.
I just finished the entire conference…
pretty good stuff. I didn’t know Joeseph Phillips was so passionate (especially when someone missquotes or reinterprets history
)
You actually thought you’d get on this blog with that comment? Try again, and this time leave me out of it. - Admin
What a wonderful, wonderful, dialog on C-Span. There was certainly a lot of meat there, and I’m still digesting. The choice of panelists was excellent; there was plenty of rational discourse, and not much of the type of empty sloganeering that too often passes for political conversation these days.
As LaShawn says, we seemed to be locked into our respective positions, going ’round and ’round. We talk at each other, and past each other, but not to each other. We can not admit virtue in the other sides positions, nor find error in our own sides, as if to merely human.
I believe that no one party has a stranglehold on the truth, nor all the best answers. What I do believe is that competition in the market place of ideas results in better solutions to practical problems. Let’s remember that it was the administration of the only Democratic President in the last quarter century that was able to end welfare as we know it, based on an idea and a promise that came out of his campaign. It was reformed and funded over the objections of both Liberal Democrats and Conservative Republicans, who managed to find a solution in compromise.
I find it confusing that we focus exclusively on Black pathology as the sole result of Great Society programs. And Great Society programs seems to have become a code word for welfare. And how did welfare become a code for Black, when 2/3 of the Americans surviving in poverty are White?
The unchecked use of AFDC, food stamps, and housing vouchers was a disincentive to work. There can be no doubt about that, and surely no one saw it more clearly than the vast majority of poor people who were not, and are not, on welfare. But to say that it was a disincentive solely, or more greatly to Black folks, implies that we are somehow fundamentally different from any other race as human beings - more different than we are alike.
Clearly, it ignores that we no longer see poor Appalachian children with distended bellies from hunger and malnutrition. Isn’t that something to be proud of? It ignores the fact that Head Start provided additional educational resources in areas that were underserved. It ignores the reality that a hungry student is not prepared to learn.
There is not a society in the world where the folks on the lower end of the economic scale do not suffer from the pathologies of the greater society at disproportionate rates. To talk about the failure of the Black family, and not talk about the expansion of the Black middle class seems to be misleading.
About why I focus on black stats rather than white ones or all, I decided a long time ago, back when I first started writing my column, that my focus would be on the disproportionate number of blacks on welfare, committing crimes, and so on. Other bloggers focus on different things. Fortunately, there are millions of blogs out there to choose from.
The Great Society and its bastard child, the so-called Civil Rights entitlement programs, are worth talking and writing about every day, all day, as loudly as possible. Plenty of people don’t like my approach, and they are free to start their own blogs and write about something entirely different.
In seeking out what works and what doesn’t, is it necessary to acknowledge both successes and failures?
Oh Lord….if their were only more LaShawn’s in the Black American Community…….heck, if their were only more LaShawn’s in America period!!
You are so spot on that it is scary……I can well imagine many Blacks are cursing your name as well as white liberals but standing for the Truth will never make you popular!!
Great stuff LaShawn!!!
Hi, La Shawn. Saw you and the panel on C-Span the other day and it was really some great food for thought.
I would like to comment on your statement about the lack of intact black families today. So true and although it does have much to do with the welfare state and the entitlement mentality there is something else going on and let me say these words are going to raise hackles on this board. Hear me out, however, because I am a truth teller way before I am beholden to a political ideology.
Black men and women plain do not TRUST each other. The black women is so very insecure and anxiety ridden when it comes to her relationships. Black men think all the”sistas”are out for their loot and seem to want to BE the man of the house instead of letting the black man call the shots.
Much of this starts in high school,an area where I spend a lot of time in my large urban city. The black women want to get with the”playas”, the dudes with”game”, those with money and bling or those brothers who are top athletes with NBA or NFL potential. The studious black kid is given no props whatsoever.
And the young black men are just as much to blame. They want the”fly girl”with the booming you know what. They get what they want and move on and then you see the young girls talking about”those n—– ain’t—-” The hurt and anger start to marinate. Meanwhile, moms is having drama with boyfriends and the kid is in the middle. He or she sees and hears the arguments, the screaming at each other, the fights and says “Who needs THIS?” Marriage? Not me, baby. I’m going for mine and thats it.
I want to keep this short but I think you get my drift.Feel free to comment or flame!
I did have a chance to view the symposium sponsored by Heritage Foundation(10/11/05).
True, the comments now about reform is not to make those people pay back what some incompetent sytems’ and their workers took it upon themselves to do. But to do what some states have had incorporated… The welfare to work, so that women (all) will be more responsible to not only the children they do have but also to their bodies. I can’t see me weighing five hundred pounds, single and believing having another child (it CAN happen), because I want to blame other reasons for not going out, contributing to society not only for my benefit but for the benefit and esteem of my children (single or not).
Let’s not re-define the mistakes of governments’ pasts… ‘Hip Hop’ and ‘Rap’ keep doing that. But let’s fix what is left now in every state WHERE APPLICABLE!! of course. If Indiana gave away free money instead of work some of us missed it.While I earned my Degree early 80’s, some people REALLY didn’t have the skills and abilities, not because they did’nt seek it but ‘50 was not to far behide ‘60..civil rights, fightings riots, nor too far behind the ’70’s.
Yes let’s stop blaming race and do something besides the gangsta groove and the returning Pimp hat (hook-up) that is pouring back into our Churches. Admit it… some Black men will never GET IT nor ACCEPT THE SUCCESS OF BLACK WOMEN! “Gospel” is the first thing they have written with an all black casts without profanity.
Here’s some food for thought for you about me, Doug.
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/06/22/traditionally/
#17 Mike M. — That’s ok. We all end up wearing the egg at some point. But I hear it’s supposed to be good for your skin or something.
Great dialog going on here. As others have said, lots of food for thought. Long live the Queen.
Beautifully stated, La Shawn. I believe the sentiments you expressed are going the way of the dinosaur among today’s generation, unfortunately.
Another trend I see- and this is most defintely not limited to the black community-is that marriage and relationships are more of a business partnership rather than an adventure in becoming better people, better parents and living a life of passion and commitment to something other than the acquisition of material goods.
Don’t get it twisted-I am not some dreamy eyed socialist or ascetic who renounces the “evil materialistic world”. I want a decent roof over my head and all the conveniences of modern living. Yet when we chase the goodies to the detriment of our personal well being, time with family, and our precious health, then priorities really need to be reconsidered.
Thanks again for representing like you do!
I was laying on my floor in front of the tv, rather upset that the only thing on my non-cable tv was those court shows. However, my apartment complex does give us a few channels free, and right now those include C-Span and C-Span2.
So I was surprised to see Shelby Steele sitting there in front of a Heritage Foundation backdrop, and knew I had to stay and watch. Like another here, I read his “Content of our Character” a while back and I like his whole take on things.
It took me a while to realize it was the guy from the Cosby Show and La Shawn sitting there too. At first I was just like, who is that attractive conservative chick.
The host, I think, did not do the best job in terms of being a good moderator, as I think he rather misstated several of the points being made by the panelists, not always helping their arguments. But he had good intentions.
It was nice to finally see some conservative blacks on the tube.
It was also funny when that liberal chick wanted to ask a really long question to Shelby regarding his comments on how blacks deal with perceptions of inferiority; she was ready to ask her five minute question, but then stated she had to duck out to get back to work instead of hearing the answer. Fortunately, and probably unhappily, she at least DID stay for the answer. She didn’t look happy though.
I watched the discussion on CSPAN and really enjoyed it. Shelby Steele, La Shawn and the actor were very well spoken and intelligent and I learned a lot from them. I’m a white leftist, but it really bugs me how EVERYTHING comes down to racism with the left. It seems to me that slavery said blacks are different and inferior to whites. Now tht we’ve evolved beyond thinking that blacks are inferior, we haven’t evolved beyond thinking they’re different. I often believe that black people keep racism alive where it’s trying to die out. So Shelby, La Shawn and Mr. Phillips were the first intelligent blacks I’ve seen confront that. I thought Harriett and the Pharisee moderator were all holier-than-thou and no compassion, blaming people with no cars and no money for a hotel (and “fat as pigs”) that they didn’t leave New Orleans because they lack “moral character”… I don’t recall Jesus ever going around blaming the poor for their poverty. (But Christian conservatives don’t really pay much attention to what Jesus said, because things like “sell all you have and give it to the poor” and “love your enemies” don’t fit in with their might-makes-right worldview and their belief in the divine right of capital… they prefer to see God’s “truth” in the laws of the Old Testament, the scolding of sinners of Paul and the vengeful Jesus in Revelations) but the other panelists were great. La Shawn, I have a lot of respect for you and I’m glad I found your website. I’m glad to see there are intelligent black conservatives, when all we ever see on TV is that idiot Alan Keyes.
What I can’t understand about black conservatives is this… how can anyone who truly believes in “traditional moral values” support the economic policies that take away jobs and make the poor poorer? Crime and misery IS the result of urban poverty, that’s obvious. Go to any major city in the world and you don’t go to the ghettos because it’s dangerous, whether or not the ghetto residents get welfare. So what’s your solution to that? There aren’t enough decent paying jobs for everyone. Go to a job interview, you’re competing against 50 people. So how is some poor black woman who doesn’t speak very well, is missing teeth and can’t afford dentures, and who can’t afford decent clothes supposed to win over 50 other candidates? The divide between rich and poor is growing as the republicans and the democrats push their social darwinistic economy on the rest of us. If there are no jobs in a community, how will just taking away the people’s pittance of welfare help them? You see starving people all over the world who don’t get welfare, and simply not being on welfare doesn’t help them. I agree people shouldn’t get money for doing nothing, so why can’t the government create jobs in the commmunities? Is there any logical reason why not, or is there only the “because that’s socialism and that’s evil” pillar of the conservative’s America religion?
Bonnie writes:
>>>”What I can’t understand about black conservatives is this… how can anyone who truly believes in “traditional moral values†support the economic policies that take away jobs and make the poor poorer?”
Excellent question. I believe that many, NOT ALL, but many black conservatives understand that the people who create these economic policies are also the people with power. So the default cost/benefit position is to side with power. If you side with power, you cannot accuse those with power of being the root of the problem, so you have to blame the victims of the errant policy.
http://www.thecobraslair.com/images/CONDI-RICE-KATRINA-NAT.jpg
–Cobra
Glad you qualified your answer, Cobra. - Admin
Bonnie;
Your position seems to be that ‘compassionate’ people give welfare to those who need/want it..When one looks at countries who are more welfare oriented, they have lots more poor people, a lower standard of living, etc..In 2003, 15,000 people in France died of heat prostration during a heat wave, despite France’s tremendous ‘compassion, that has almost bankrupted the country, reduced its GDP to far less than 2%, and raised its unemployment to double digits…..I think what we all need to move those who ‘CAN’ off of the welfare roles, and reserve help for those who truly cannot make it on their own. If we did that, as a society, we would have plenty to take care of the poor, the elderly, the helpless,…and those who truly could not make it any other way. Nations in the top quitile in economic freedom (low taxes, low regulation, lower welfare policies, etc.) have an average of per-capita GDP $25,062 compared to $2,409 per capita (those heavy tax countries who rely on redistribution and ‘compassion’) for those in the bottom quintile…I have never understood why so many people blind themselves to the failures of our society to get people into productivity, so that resources can be used in a truly compassionate manner…If there are so many applicants per job, why in the world do we need to import immigrants by the millions to work for us…Either, we do NOT have enough workers, OR we do not have enough jobs…OR, we have the jobs, but do not have workers willing to do them….Whatever the truth is, we need to fix it…And, for God’s sake, if someone doesn’t have teeth, let’s get them teeth, and get them working…that’s a heck of a lot more compassionate than welfare…If we would all just get together and problem solve, we’d fix this mess….Compassion has nothing to do with it..None of us like suffering…I haven’t met any conservatives who like to pull out toenails for fun….We are just debating on the most effective soolutions….
Bonnie,
You say:
“Crime and misery IS the result of urban poverty, that’s obvious. ”
So is it crime and poverty that has created so many single family homes, which in turn has produced kids who have to raise themselves, which in turn can lead to crime? How come many of our ancestors (who grew up prior to the welfare hadnout, affirmative action state) lived in poverty yet were able to stay away from crime and raise many of their children to be porductive in society?
BTW, there are many rich and spoiled who live in crime and misery so I guess it’s not so obvious.
BTW,
I ask because I see this not as someone on the sidelines peeking in but someone who has “so called poverty” going on in my own family. Personally I think poverty is overused and overated term (just like racism)and what everyone (especially liberals) call poverty is nothing but a justification for sin but OOps…we are not allowed to use that word anymore, nor are we allowed to actually tell [people in love that if they do A, that guess what, negative step B will happen.
There are many who are truly in poverty but they aren’t the ones we see thrown in our face on a daily bases.
I just finished watching the cspan video, and I firmly stand behind my comment about Peterson. He clearly loses balance to the point that he doesn’t even hear the questions being posed to him—as evident in the Q & A session.
I am still trying to embrace my conservative brothers and sisters because I agree on key fundamental issues such as moral responsibility. But I am having an extremely hard time with the alliance of faith, the attitude against gay rights, and the role of women in society, family, and work.
The explanation about the perspective of racism from the black conservative movement, I found insightful; and I both agree and disagree with the analysis.
Hi La Shawn. Very interesting points were made on C-Span. It really kept my interest. I also never responded in a blog before but if what you said about yours is true then I feel quite comfortable.
I do believe that maybe there is a slight chance of hope to at least lessen the amount of racism with a new generation. I do believe that the baby boomers have a bit to do with the way they have raised their children at such a critical time in history. Growing up with baby boomer parents I can see how they did nothing to stress friendship or best of all… nothing. If they had not said anything I think it would have been better than to hear negative remarks. They had an opinion and passed it on to the future. Having teenagers of my own I can see a change. There is no color. And to me that sounds like a pretty good start!
I lay the blame squarely on the federal government for giving young black women disincentives to marry by making welfare contingent on whether there’s a man in the house.
What happened to the belief in personal responsibility? Seriously.
And if you want to place the blame where you do, then make sure you point out that Ronald Reagan’s administration push to modify welfare rules to make it harder to have welfare going to homes with working men in them AND the administration LOWERED the amount of money a family on welfare could have in the bank. In one swoop, they helped push men out of the homes and push a spending, not saving, mentality.
But thanks to welfare reform, fiercely resisted by Democrats, the government no longer increases welfare payments with each baby.
The “funny” thing is, there has never been a study that showed that women on welfare had more babies to get more money. In fact, pre-welfare reform, most women on welfare had no additional children while on welfare. AND studies showed that most women on welfare were on welfare for no more than 4 years.
Apples and oranges, DS. If I’d said the federal government HAD TO FIX BLACK PEOPLE, then we’d have a problem. Laying blame where it falls (feds and the people) and owning up to your part of a tragedy and why you’re the one who has to fix it aren’t contradictory at all. Nice try, though. And I’d LOVE to see those studies about women on welfare not having babies. Funny, I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Perhaps my eyes were lying. - Admin
Joseph C. Phillips is the face of Black conservatives that will get Blacks to consider what is being said. I found it interesting that Phillips spoke up and disagreed with what was being said at the same times I thought something should be said.
I also found it interesting that Phillips pointed out the hypercritical nature of Black conservatives and how that is perceived.
I also found it interesting that Phillips said that Black conservatives make too much of media appointed “Black leaders” when people in the Black community don’t give the “Black leaders” the weight and credibility that Black conservatives give those media appointed “Black leaders”.
Phillips said MANY of the same things I have said, and have been criticized for saying.
But what do I know? I’m just an opinionated independent, registered as non-aligned, who doesn’t vote for party but for the individual.
Yeah, ol’ Phillips said alot what independents (especially black indies) have said. We’ll see if he gets some love or not.
T-Steel, if you noticed, he got some light heat from Shelby and Peterson.
Bonnie,
The next time you use scriptures to make a point “But Christian conservatives don’t really pay much attention to what Jesus said, because things like “sell all you have and give it to the poor†make sure the contexts is correct, Jesus wasn’t telling everybody to sale what they have and give to the poor he was talking to this one person who’s riches were getting in the way of following him.
I really liked the show. I have seen, seldomly, black programs that are just plain ridiculous. It was nice to see people who are more down to earth, and what people from my community would call “The whitest black people” That term derives from how blacks will seperate THEMSELVES from the whites. As long as the prejudice that whites are racist stands in the black community, our racism will stand as well. I have had a gun pulled on me because one black man thought i was racist. I don’t think our fear of being honest to the street black man is unreasonable. It is my opinion that you blacks have a much better chance of reaching out to the inner city blacks. I could be wrong, but it’s just from my personal experience. I drove down the wrong street in Philadelphia and every black man stopped what they were doing and stared at me. It is they who are stopping equality and it is the white racists as well. Just my 2 cents.
I also think conservatives need to spend less time talking about black leadership. That is such a wash because I can tell you, Jesse Peterson spends more time talking about Jesse Jackson than anyone I know. Jesse Jackson is a public figure - nothing else. The media and black conservatives make him out to be something that he isn’t.
Thank you. Also include white conservatives. I hear Jesse Jackson called a “black leader” more from the right than from anywhere else. Blacks are NOT waking up in the morning and planning their days based on what Jesse Jackson says. Trifling blacks are not listening to Jackson speeches at all. Those who do listen to him and support him are generally educated, self sufficient black liberals who are no different from educated, self sufficient white liberals. It’s almost comical to many blacks how much attention is given to Jesse Jackson. Jackson is an interesting character to most blacks and little more. If Jackson, Sharpton, Farrakhan, etc. disappeared tomorrow, nothing will change concerning the condition of blacks in this country.
Shade, agreed.
“Those who do listen to him and support him are generally educated, self sufficient black liberals who are no different from educated, self sufficient white liberals.”
Deluded and guilt-ridden white liberals who support Jackson are the worst part of the problem. Thank goodness I’ve been pardoned, and no longer need to walk with ny head down:
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/gift.html
Redbeard;
Goodness Me…That’s a load off my back…. And a high-five to WW!
“Shelby Steele talked about blacks’ responsibility to better themselves despite racism and go after their dreams. Yes-it’s everybody’s responsibility to get past the racism we grew up in, and not let it hinder us as we live our lives.
My son and I watched the program, and then when my husband came home, we all watched it again. Wonderful ! I note that today c-span is running the Farrakhan thing, but they should be offering your appearance at the Heritage Foundation instead. Thank you, Thank you for your courage and encouragement ! I enjoy your blog and it will be a privilege to pray for God’s protection on each of the conservative courageous heroes on the panel.
Ivy League-educated, upper-class, etc., there’s still an urge to keep “whitey on the hook,†to never let white people forget our historical grievances. It doesn’t matter that the guilty whites are dead or dying. No matter how young or old, white Americans must always be reminded of black enslavement and discrimination.
I don’t quite agree with this. What would be more accurate in my opinion is that they never let black people forget our “historical grievances”. Is this unwise? Is it not important for a people to know their history? Do people complain that non-Jewish people must always be reminded of the Jewish holocaust?
Isn’t it better to focus on the fact of these individuals being “Ivy League-educated, upper-class”? The most destructive force in black American society is generally composed of those blacks who couldn’t care less about slavery, Jim Crow, Africa, lynchings, civil rights, or any aspects of black history. Street thugs, gang bangers, drug dealers, and other trifling blacks rarely have any knowledge nor interest in any aspect of black history. Afrocentrists, whether you like them or not, are generally educated, self sufficient people. If black America was filled with a bunch of people who readily studied and discussed the history of anti-black racism in America, yet never committed crimes nor depended on government aid, wouldn’t this be a better place? And while they may, for the most part, be liberal, remember that roughly half of the white population is liberal. If they are guilty of anything, it is probably the tendency to make excuses for and failure to shun those trifling blacks that have little or no knowledge of nor interest in historical black struggles.
Of all of the black people I know who emphasize to one another the history of slavery and oppression of blacks in history, I never see them throw it in the faces of their white friends and acquaintances. I would imagine that people are concentrating on those blacks in the public limelight who express such things, and somehow making public statements about past racism equates to addressing whites. Folks act like black people don’t watch the news nor read the newspaper. It reminds me of how Bill Cosby bravely attempted to constructively confront the black population and ended up becoming a poster boy for white conservatives; something that I doubt he intended. The problem with addressing one population is that all populations will hear and thus put their spin on it. Bill passionately wants to see black people stop the common destructive behavior. The result is that he was made to seem by the right as if he was joining right along white conservatives in bashing black folks.
LaShawn, you say that you “don’t let blacks ‘off the hook,’”. I don’t know much about you beyond what I read on this website, but I know that black people are not very familiar with you at all. How much time do you spend spreading your message to those lost ghetto inhabitants? Do you go to Watts, Compton, Harlem, Chicago’s South Side, the 9th Ward, etc. and call those people out on their self destructive attitudes and behaviors? I’m just curious because I don’t know how you are not letting black folks “off the hook” by criticizing them to this blog audience which appears to be composed almost entirely of white people. If your are going out and confronting these people, then I commend you. If you are not, I don’t see the constructiveness of a black person criticizing black people to an audience of cheerleading white people.
I’m glad there’s someone who validates my assertion in many a conversations and arguments or debates I’ve had with many African Americans that I’ve encountered for the years that I’ve lived in the United States as an African immigrant. When you travel to any country in Africa you will realize that the very same drawbacks to development of Africans are the same ones you will find in the thinking of poor or some educated African Americans.
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