First published in October 2004, this post attracted the attention of an Objectivist and a Buddhist. Odd.
A couple of days ago I blogged about the most recent beheading and touched upon why God allows evil. It’s a question even Christians ask while knowing the answer. But I believe the more appropriate question is, “Why is there good in the world?”
Some of you may have heard the phrase, “total depravity.” It means that man is sinful through and through, though not as bad as he could be. Despite what humanists think, man is not inherently good, committing evil acts only because of his environment, poverty, ignorance, racism or the latest fad-excuse. We are inherently bad. Every word, thought and action is tainted by sin because we are sinful. In our unregenerate and rebellious state, we do not seek after God nor do we want to please or obey him.
Some people believe they are “saved” from eternal damnation (if they believe in eternal damnation at all) because they are “good.” God tells us otherwise: “The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.” (Psalm 58:3)
The wicked are estranged from the womb. That’s a hard saying, isn’t it? While it may not be explicit in this passage, “the wicked” referred to is every human born. We don’t usually associate sin with a precious baby, but the fact is we are born sinners. The “good” we do, if any at all, does not meet God’s requirements.
In Ecclesiastes 9:3 we read:
Truly the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil; madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned…
For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
This verse may be more familiar to you:
There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one. Romans 3: 10-12
Not one man, left to himself, is righteous. Are you clear on what God thinks of us mortals and our plan to save ourselves? If you’re not, God certainly is.
I use the word “we” because although I’m a believer in Jesus Christ, I’m still a sinner just like you. But I’m a sinner who’s been forgiven and touched by grace. God, in his infinite mercy, chose to save me. Sometimes when I’m riding the subway or walking down the street or in the middle of a meeting, I’ll think about it. The exceeding abundance of God’s mercy toward me is too profound to express in this post.
You don’t need to consult the Bible to know how evil we can be, if we make an honest assessment of ourselves. Some believe that if the “good” they do outweighs the bad, they will go to heaven (if they believe in heaven at all).
I’m always amazed that some think a do-it-yourself salvation plan will get them into heaven, although I know why they deceive themselves. You see it all the time in movies and on TV. As long as they tried to be a “good person”, they will go to heaven. Do you really think Hitler will be the only one suffering eternal damnation?
God says: “[F]or we have sinned. In these ways we continue; And we need to be saved. But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags…” Filthy rags. That is what God thinks of the “good” we do apart from himself. You see, God’s standard is perfection, not “the best we can do.” The only righteousness we have is through Jesus Christ.
But finally we come to one of the answers to why there is good in the world: common grace. What is common grace? In Matthew 5:44-45 we read:
[L]ove your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Common grace is distinct from saving grace in that the believer and unbeliever alike share in God’s earthly blessings. Also, since the Bible tells us man is not as evil as he could be, something must be restraining evil. That restraint is also God’s common grace.
God is long-suffering with us, but his patience does wear out.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man — and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. Romans 1: 18-27
As harsh as that may sound, it doesn’t have to be this way for you. More than common grace, you can have saving grace through Jesus Christ.
“[I]f you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, ‘Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.’ For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For ‘whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.’”
Total Depravity
I couldn’t say it better myself so I direct you to La Shawn Barber’s take on Total Depravity.
Trackback by cigar-theology.com — 10.24.05 @ 8:27 am
La Shawn:
I would differ with both you and the humanists.
I believe children are neutral at birth. They may have original sin, but otherwise are sinless.
That evil can be taught to otherwise innocent children is obvious in our inner cities. Children are corrupted by absent and irresponsible parents, not by the “society” that “doesn’t do enough for them”.
In contrast, children with two responsible parents do better in every index of well-being.
Are there exceptions to these rules? YES. But, overall, this is the way it is.
Does any sane person believe that Saddam Hussein’s sons were born “pure evil”? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to believe that, with Saddam as their mentor, his children would become a lot like their father.
Comment by Frank Zavisca — 10.24.05 @ 10:03 am
I also believe children are neutral at birth, the verse that is being reference says that “They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies” They go astray—The Hebrew word used here means to go astray, to wander. In Isaiah 53:6 the writer is talking about Jesus death and the reason for his death.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
I believe that’s as simple as it get when we chose to turn away from God we are sinners, a child comes he the world haven’t made any choices at all, and yes at some point in that humans’ life it will choose it’s will it’s own way and go astray and will be need of a savior.
Comment by James Newman — 10.24.05 @ 10:29 am
I agree with Newman that children are not born sinners, for they do not have a chance to enter into a relationship with God through their own belief and baptism - so would God condemn a 2 week-old child that dies in the hospital to eternal damnation, because they are a sinner. I don’t think so. I agree that we become sinners over time through our nurturing (or lack there of) and through the recognition of what sin is.
Comment by JayDog — 10.24.05 @ 10:57 am
Good Reading Links for Monday
Baldilocks does a little Jesus-preaching and quotes liberally from C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity. I love to read about people who take yet another step of sanctification and realize something about themselves needs to change. I’ll be wor…
Trackback by Chasing the Wind — 10.24.05 @ 11:16 am
Of course children are born with a sin nature. Have none of you raised a child? Did you have to teach him to say no, or to have tantrums, to hit, kick, or bite? Did you have to dissuade her from sharing her toys, or from saying please and thank you? Get real. I believe God is gracious and will not hold a child accountable until he or she is mature enough to choose whom to serve. Saved by grace, rather the point of the column, wouldn’t you say?
Comment by ElCee — 10.24.05 @ 12:25 pm
La Shawn:
Another obvious example of the neutrality of children is the lack of racial hatred - unless indoctrinated by adults and other children.
In Shreveport, the Cedar Grove neighborhood was largely Black, but a lot of White people lived there. One good friend, now 63, grew up there. As a white child, he played with a lot of Black children - they were his friends. He didn’t know he was supposed to hate them.
Following “the fires”, Cedar Grove has never been the same. White people are afraid to go there. Little Black children still don’t know they are supposed to hate “Whitey”.
Comment by Frank Zavisca — 10.24.05 @ 1:42 pm
I’m itching to weigh in on the babies-aren’t-born-sinners meme, but I’ll let Christian commenters jump in first, especially the Reformed readers.
Comment by La Shawn — 10.24.05 @ 1:52 pm
ElCee:
Are you saying that as soon as a child is born it’s a sinners? If that’s the case please explain to me what is John talking about:
1 John 3:4
4Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. What did the child commit?
Yes I have 4 children.
Comment by James Newman — 10.24.05 @ 2:26 pm
Are we born into sin? YES! The reason we are born into sin is because Adam and Eve sinned, so every generation after has the stain of sin on them. (Read Genesis) The only way to be forgiven and cleansed from our sin, is in Jesus Christ. We have 6 children…and believe me, you can tell they have the sin nature from even their earliest days as babies….the “I want it now” attitude…to smacking their sibling because they didn’t get their way….It goes on and on!
I am so glad that Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost….:)
Comment by rose — 10.24.05 @ 2:53 pm
Rose
Where does it say I’m a sinner because of Adam and Eve sin? If you are right how did Jesus avoid the stain?
Please use bible reference so that I can study.
Thank You
Comment by James Newman — 10.24.05 @ 5:09 pm
Reminds me of a sermon I recently heard…
what’s the first thing out of a childs mouth when he/she can speak…
example…your 18 month old breaks a vase you told them not to touch? 99.9% of the time when asked “Did you do that?” Our precious little “innocent” sinner
says No…
straight out of the womb as King David so rightly out it.
Comment by Renee — 10.24.05 @ 5:53 pm
“Where does it say I’m a sinner because of Adam and Eve sin? If you are right how did Jesus avoid the stain?”
1 Corinthians 15:21-23
21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Christ avoided the stain via the Virgin Birth. God is His Father, not Joseph.
Comment by Bryan K Mills — 10.24.05 @ 6:26 pm
See also Romans 5:12-19.
Sorry for the double post.
Comment by Bryan K Mills — 10.24.05 @ 6:30 pm
I do not believe in “neutral”.
I believe babies are born into original sin, just like anyone else. That’s why parents are supposed to baptize them.
Babies that die before baptism aren’t necessarily sentenced, especially when they have someone to pray for their souls. There is nothing more powerful than a parent praying for a child, a lost child, and the repose of that child’s soul.
Once the child is old enough to be responsible for his/her own actions, it’s up to that child to accept Jesus Christ on his/her own, and receive the salvation.
But, till that time…..it is up to the Parents, and others, to continually pray for lost children.
Comment by Glamchild — 10.24.05 @ 8:19 pm
I think the following scriptures will show that we children have not been exempted from sin.
Notice in the following scripture; there are “no man”:
Who [God] alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see (1 Timothy 6:16).
Woman is condemned:
To the woman He said: I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you (Genesis 3:16).
Man is condemned:
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us . . . If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us (1 John 1:8,10).
Cursed is the ground for your sake; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you and you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return (Genesis 3:17-19).
If man and woman is condemned by inference their offspring would be condemned by sin unless they were given an exception.
How can children be excluded regardless of age when God does not expressly say so?:
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us . . . If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us (1 John 1:8,10).
Sin is a genetic disease passed on to all of the descendent’s of Adam and Eve, that means you and me - at birth. Genetic material is passed through blood, you can’t get around it.
Have you ever had to teach a child to be bad? From the earliest stages anyone who has dealt with an infant knows it will do whatever it takes to have its way; crying, throwing tantrums and generally giving everyone one around a hard time until it gets what it wants.
Comment by Kevin — 10.24.05 @ 9:20 pm
I know God is a really great Jew! oh i forgot, God is a really great muslim..Help!..oh, maybe God is not what you think he is?..What is God?..Bush talks to God all day long, if i tell a cop ( pig of the evil political system that hates our freedom and wants to make Mexico here in the U.S.A.) I WOULD BE PUT AWAY IN A NUT HOUSE AND KILLED.
The word “Depravity”, is Bush!..he loves his Mexico and hates anything that is American.
After all Mexico is a slave nation with only 50,000 ruling class running 150,000 million people.
that is what Bush is “slave owner”, for the ideals of his God of the Mideast! and mass Genocide against “We the People”, It is his Game of evil.
Comment by Fred Dawes — 10.25.05 @ 3:02 am
Freddie Dawes,
Get off the blog if you are going to mumble and babble about politics when the discussion is about the True and Living God, something you don’t seem to have a grasp of yet. While politics seems to be your god as you use this forum to spew your hatred, your input would be better served on another blog. So put down your NY Times, turn the station from that awful CNBC, put down the mocha latte and take a cold shower.
Comment by Mike — 10.25.05 @ 7:49 am
Just last week our Bible study group did a lesson on sin and grace. It is clear that all humans are born with original sin. Quoting from Journey to the Center of Faith, “The sin of Adam and Eve is not just an ancient religious tale fromt he dusty pages of the book of Genesis. It is your story and mine. All of us are infected.” But don’t miss the best part, GRACE. Jesus died for our sins. His grace is a free gift to any who believe in him and seek forgiveness for their sins. As we discussed this Bible Study and Biblical passages, we all agreed that GRACE is a living, breathing, moving powerful force. How can anyone doubt that God’s grace doesn’t prevail…to the little child who doesn’t know him yet..to the rest of us who do and ask him into our lives? Even on the cross He said, “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
Comment by Dianne Lavenburg — 10.25.05 @ 11:59 am
Bryan K Mills thanks for replying:
1 Cor 15:21-23
The contexts of the 15 chapter Paul is talking about the resurrection and those verses are right in the middle of the case he’s making for a resurrection. When Adam & Eve sinned there were two deaths that day one physical (which we all share) but Jesus has fixed that because all will be raised and one (spiritual) for the sin he committed and when we commit sin we die spiritually.
Ezekiel 18:20 In the contexts the people were blaming the fathers for there troubles and God tells them otherwise.
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the
wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
God says I don’t bear the guilt of my father nor the first father and I’m guilty of what I do sounds like a just judge.
Comment by James Newman — 10.25.05 @ 6:37 pm
Glamchild
Where in the scriptures does it say babies have to be baptized? All of the people who were baptized for the remission of their sins had the qualifications that Jesus & his Apostles stated in the new testament repentance (baby hasn’t done anything to repent of) believe(baby don’t know who or what to believe in) and faith. Mark 16:15-16, Acts 2:37-40,Acts 8:24-39.
One more question since children are “totally depraved” which means nothing good in you what so ever why would Jesus use them as an example of what we adults should be like in order to enter the kingdom of heaven? Matthew 18:1-5.
Comment by James Newman — 10.25.05 @ 6:54 pm
I see baptism as being more about the parents than the baby. The parents are standing up, before God and witnesses, and promising to train, and discipline, the child according to Christian beliefs and guidelines. The parents are the custodians of the Word, for now, and hold the key to that baby’s eventual Christian maturity, and future salvation. At Baptism, the parents, and God parents, promise to continually pray for, and monitor, the child’s Christian development, until the child is old enough to do it on his/her own.
It’s up to the Parents, and the God parents, to encourage, to pave the way ……early on…
That’s my interpretation of baptism.
Comment by Glamchild — 10.25.05 @ 11:16 pm