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	<title>Comments on: Grace and You</title>
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		<title>By: Glamchild</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61576</link>
		<dc:creator>Glamchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61576</guid>
		<description>I see baptism as being more about the parents than the baby.  The parents are standing up, before God and witnesses, and promising to train, and discipline, the child according to Christian beliefs and guidelines.  The parents are the custodians of the Word, for now, and hold the key to that baby&#039;s eventual Christian maturity, and future salvation. At Baptism, the parents, and God parents, promise to continually pray for, and monitor, the child&#039;s Christian development, until the child is old enough to do it on his/her own.

It&#039;s up to the Parents, and the God parents, to encourage, to pave the way ......early on...

That&#039;s my interpretation of baptism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see baptism as being more about the parents than the baby.  The parents are standing up, before God and witnesses, and promising to train, and discipline, the child according to Christian beliefs and guidelines.  The parents are the custodians of the Word, for now, and hold the key to that baby&#8217;s eventual Christian maturity, and future salvation. At Baptism, the parents, and God parents, promise to continually pray for, and monitor, the child&#8217;s Christian development, until the child is old enough to do it on his/her own.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s up to the Parents, and the God parents, to encourage, to pave the way &#8230;&#8230;early on&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s my interpretation of baptism.</p>
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		<title>By: James Newman</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61564</link>
		<dc:creator>James Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61564</guid>
		<description>Glamchild

Where in the scriptures does it say babies have to be baptized? All of the people who were baptized for the remission of their sins had the qualifications that Jesus &amp; his Apostles stated in the new testament repentance (baby hasn&#039;t done anything to repent of) believe(baby don&#039;t know who or what to believe in) and faith. Mark 16:15-16, Acts 2:37-40,Acts 8:24-39.

One more question since children are â€œtotally depraved&quot; which means nothing good in you what so ever why would Jesus use them as an example of what we adults should be like in order to enter the kingdom of heaven? Matthew 18:1-5.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glamchild</p>
<p>Where in the scriptures does it say babies have to be baptized? All of the people who were baptized for the remission of their sins had the qualifications that Jesus &amp; his Apostles stated in the new testament repentance (baby hasn&#8217;t done anything to repent of) believe(baby don&#8217;t know who or what to believe in) and faith. Mark 16:15-16, Acts 2:37-40,Acts 8:24-39.</p>
<p>One more question since children are â€œtotally depraved&#8221; which means nothing good in you what so ever why would Jesus use them as an example of what we adults should be like in order to enter the kingdom of heaven? Matthew 18:1-5.</p>
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		<title>By: James Newman</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61562</link>
		<dc:creator>James Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61562</guid>
		<description>Bryan K Mills thanks for replying:

1 Cor 15:21-23

The contexts of the 15 chapter Paul is talking about the resurrection and those verses are right in the middle of the case he&#039;s making for a resurrection. When Adam &amp; Eve sinned there were two deaths that day one physical (which we all share) but Jesus has fixed that because all will be raised and one (spiritual) for the sin he committed and when we commit sin we die spiritually.

Ezekiel 18:20 In the contexts the people were blaming the fathers for there troubles and God tells them otherwise.

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the 
wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

God says I don&#039;t bear the guilt of my father nor the first father and I&#039;m guilty of what I do sounds like a just judge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryan K Mills thanks for replying:</p>
<p>1 Cor 15:21-23</p>
<p>The contexts of the 15 chapter Paul is talking about the resurrection and those verses are right in the middle of the case he&#8217;s making for a resurrection. When Adam &amp; Eve sinned there were two deaths that day one physical (which we all share) but Jesus has fixed that because all will be raised and one (spiritual) for the sin he committed and when we commit sin we die spiritually.</p>
<p>Ezekiel 18:20 In the contexts the people were blaming the fathers for there troubles and God tells them otherwise.</p>
<p>The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the<br />
wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.</p>
<p>God says I don&#8217;t bear the guilt of my father nor the first father and I&#8217;m guilty of what I do sounds like a just judge.</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne Lavenburg</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61516</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne Lavenburg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61516</guid>
		<description>Just last week our Bible study group did a lesson on sin and grace.  It is clear that all humans are born with original sin.  Quoting from Journey to the Center of Faith, &quot;The sin of Adam and Eve is not just an ancient religious tale fromt he dusty pages of the book of Genesis.  It is your story and mine.  All of us are infected.&quot; But don&#039;t miss the best part, GRACE.  Jesus died for our sins.  His grace is a free gift to any who believe in him and seek forgiveness for their sins.  As we discussed this Bible Study and Biblical passages, we all agreed that GRACE is a living, breathing, moving powerful force.    How can anyone doubt that  God&#039;s grace doesn&#039;t prevail...to the little child who doesn&#039;t know him yet..to the rest of us who do and ask him into our lives?  Even on the cross He said, &quot;Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just last week our Bible study group did a lesson on sin and grace.  It is clear that all humans are born with original sin.  Quoting from Journey to the Center of Faith, &#8220;The sin of Adam and Eve is not just an ancient religious tale fromt he dusty pages of the book of Genesis.  It is your story and mine.  All of us are infected.&#8221; But don&#8217;t miss the best part, GRACE.  Jesus died for our sins.  His grace is a free gift to any who believe in him and seek forgiveness for their sins.  As we discussed this Bible Study and Biblical passages, we all agreed that GRACE is a living, breathing, moving powerful force.    How can anyone doubt that  God&#8217;s grace doesn&#8217;t prevail&#8230;to the little child who doesn&#8217;t know him yet..to the rest of us who do and ask him into our lives?  Even on the cross He said, &#8220;Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61473</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61473</guid>
		<description>Freddie Dawes,
Get off the blog if you are going to mumble and babble about politics when the discussion is about the True and Living God, something you don&#039;t seem to have a grasp of yet. While politics seems to be your god as you use this forum to spew your hatred, your input would be better served on another blog. So put down your NY Times, turn the station from that awful CNBC, put down the mocha latte and take a cold shower.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freddie Dawes,<br />
Get off the blog if you are going to mumble and babble about politics when the discussion is about the True and Living God, something you don&#8217;t seem to have a grasp of yet. While politics seems to be your god as you use this forum to spew your hatred, your input would be better served on another blog. So put down your NY Times, turn the station from that awful CNBC, put down the mocha latte and take a cold shower.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Dawes</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61470</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Dawes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61470</guid>
		<description>I know God is a really great Jew! oh i forgot, God is a really great muslim..Help!..oh, maybe God is not what you think he is?..What is God?..Bush talks to God all day long, if i tell a cop ( pig of the evil political system that hates our freedom and wants to make Mexico here in the U.S.A.) I WOULD BE PUT AWAY IN A NUT HOUSE AND KILLED.

 The word &quot;Depravity&quot;, is Bush!..he loves his Mexico and hates anything that is American.
After all Mexico is a slave nation with only 50,000 ruling class running 150,000 million people.
 that is what Bush is &quot;slave owner&quot;, for the ideals of his God of the Mideast! and mass Genocide against &quot;We the People&quot;, It is his Game of evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know God is a really great Jew! oh i forgot, God is a really great muslim..Help!..oh, maybe God is not what you think he is?..What is God?..Bush talks to God all day long, if i tell a cop ( pig of the evil political system that hates our freedom and wants to make Mexico here in the U.S.A.) I WOULD BE PUT AWAY IN A NUT HOUSE AND KILLED.</p>
<p> The word &#8220;Depravity&#8221;, is Bush!..he loves his Mexico and hates anything that is American.<br />
After all Mexico is a slave nation with only 50,000 ruling class running 150,000 million people.<br />
 that is what Bush is &#8220;slave owner&#8221;, for the ideals of his God of the Mideast! and mass Genocide against &#8220;We the People&#8221;, It is his Game of evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61464</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61464</guid>
		<description>I think the following scriptures will show that we children have not been exempted from sin.

Notice in the following scripture; there are &quot;no man&quot;:

Who [God] alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see (1 Timothy 6:16).

Woman is condemned:

To the woman He said: I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you  (Genesis 3:16).

Man is condemned:

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us . . . If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us (1 John 1:8,10). 
Cursed is the ground for your sake; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you and you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return (Genesis 3:17-19).

If man and woman is condemned by inference their offspring would be condemned by sin unless they were given an exception. 

How can children be excluded regardless of age when God does not expressly say so?:

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us . . . If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us (1 John 1:8,10). 

Sin is a genetic disease passed on to all of the descendent&#039;s of Adam and Eve, that means you and me - at birth. Genetic material is passed through blood, you can&#039;t get around it.

Have you ever had to teach a child to be bad? From the earliest stages anyone who has dealt with an infant knows it will do whatever it takes to have its way; crying, throwing tantrums and generally giving everyone one around a hard time until it gets what it wants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the following scriptures will show that we children have not been exempted from sin.</p>
<p>Notice in the following scripture; there are &#8220;no man&#8221;:</p>
<p>Who [God] alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see (1 Timothy 6:16).</p>
<p>Woman is condemned:</p>
<p>To the woman He said: I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you  (Genesis 3:16).</p>
<p>Man is condemned:</p>
<p>If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us . . . If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us (1 John 1:8,10).<br />
Cursed is the ground for your sake; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you and you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return (Genesis 3:17-19).</p>
<p>If man and woman is condemned by inference their offspring would be condemned by sin unless they were given an exception. </p>
<p>How can children be excluded regardless of age when God does not expressly say so?:</p>
<p>If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us . . . If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us (1 John 1:8,10). </p>
<p>Sin is a genetic disease passed on to all of the descendent&#8217;s of Adam and Eve, that means you and me &#8211; at birth. Genetic material is passed through blood, you can&#8217;t get around it.</p>
<p>Have you ever had to teach a child to be bad? From the earliest stages anyone who has dealt with an infant knows it will do whatever it takes to have its way; crying, throwing tantrums and generally giving everyone one around a hard time until it gets what it wants.</p>
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		<title>By: Glamchild</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61463</link>
		<dc:creator>Glamchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 00:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61463</guid>
		<description>I do not believe in &quot;neutral&quot;.

I believe babies are born into original sin, just like anyone else.  That&#039;s why parents are supposed to baptize them.

Babies that die before baptism aren&#039;t necessarily sentenced, especially when they have someone to pray for their souls. There is nothing more powerful than a parent praying for a child, a lost child, and the repose of that child&#039;s soul.

Once the child is old enough to be responsible for his/her own actions, it&#039;s up to that child to accept Jesus Christ on his/her own, and receive the salvation.

But, till that time.....it is up to the Parents, and others, to continually pray for lost children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not believe in &#8220;neutral&#8221;.</p>
<p>I believe babies are born into original sin, just like anyone else.  That&#8217;s why parents are supposed to baptize them.</p>
<p>Babies that die before baptism aren&#8217;t necessarily sentenced, especially when they have someone to pray for their souls. There is nothing more powerful than a parent praying for a child, a lost child, and the repose of that child&#8217;s soul.</p>
<p>Once the child is old enough to be responsible for his/her own actions, it&#8217;s up to that child to accept Jesus Christ on his/her own, and receive the salvation.</p>
<p>But, till that time&#8230;..it is up to the Parents, and others, to continually pray for lost children.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan K Mills</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61461</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan K Mills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61461</guid>
		<description>See also Romans 5:12-19.

Sorry for the double post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See also Romans 5:12-19.</p>
<p>Sorry for the double post.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan K Mills</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61460</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan K Mills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61460</guid>
		<description>&quot;Where does it say Iâ€™m a sinner because of Adam and Eve sin? If you are right how did Jesus avoid the stain?&quot;

1 Corinthians 15:21-23 
21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Christ avoided the stain via the Virgin Birth. God is His Father, not Joseph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Where does it say Iâ€™m a sinner because of Adam and Eve sin? If you are right how did Jesus avoid the stain?&#8221;</p>
<p>1 Corinthians 15:21-23<br />
21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.</p>
<p>Christ avoided the stain via the Virgin Birth. God is His Father, not Joseph.</p>
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		<title>By: Renee</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61459</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61459</guid>
		<description>Reminds me of a sermon I recently heard...
what&#039;s the first thing out of a childs mouth when he/she can speak...

example...your 18 month old breaks a vase you told them not to touch?  99.9% of the time when asked &quot;Did you do that?&quot;  Our precious little &quot;innocent&quot; sinner :-) says No...

straight out of the womb  as King David so rightly out it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me of a sermon I recently heard&#8230;<br />
what&#8217;s the first thing out of a childs mouth when he/she can speak&#8230;</p>
<p>example&#8230;your 18 month old breaks a vase you told them not to touch?  99.9% of the time when asked &#8220;Did you do that?&#8221;  Our precious little &#8220;innocent&#8221; sinner <img src='http://lashawnbarber.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  says No&#8230;</p>
<p>straight out of the womb  as King David so rightly out it.</p>
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		<title>By: James Newman</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61457</link>
		<dc:creator>James Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61457</guid>
		<description>Rose

Where does it say I&#039;m a sinner because of Adam and Eve sin? If you are right how did Jesus avoid the stain? 

Please use bible reference so that I can study.

Thank You</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rose</p>
<p>Where does it say I&#8217;m a sinner because of Adam and Eve sin? If you are right how did Jesus avoid the stain? </p>
<p>Please use bible reference so that I can study.</p>
<p>Thank You</p>
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		<title>By: rose</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61451</link>
		<dc:creator>rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61451</guid>
		<description>Are we born into sin?  YES!  The reason we are born into sin is because Adam and Eve sinned, so every generation after has the stain of sin on them. (Read Genesis) The only way to be forgiven and cleansed from our sin, is in Jesus Christ.  We have 6 children...and believe me, you can tell they have the sin nature from even their earliest days as babies....the &quot;I want it now&quot; attitude...to smacking their sibling because they didn&#039;t get their way....It goes on and on!  
I am so glad that Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost....:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we born into sin?  YES!  The reason we are born into sin is because Adam and Eve sinned, so every generation after has the stain of sin on them. (Read Genesis) The only way to be forgiven and cleansed from our sin, is in Jesus Christ.  We have 6 children&#8230;and believe me, you can tell they have the sin nature from even their earliest days as babies&#8230;.the &#8220;I want it now&#8221; attitude&#8230;to smacking their sibling because they didn&#8217;t get their way&#8230;.It goes on and on!<br />
I am so glad that Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost&#8230;.:)</p>
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		<title>By: James Newman</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61449</link>
		<dc:creator>James Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61449</guid>
		<description>ElCee:

Are you saying that as soon as a child is born it&#039;s a sinners? If that&#039;s the case please explain to me what is John talking about:

1 John 3:4
4Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. What did the child commit? 
Yes I have 4 children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ElCee:</p>
<p>Are you saying that as soon as a child is born it&#8217;s a sinners? If that&#8217;s the case please explain to me what is John talking about:</p>
<p>1 John 3:4<br />
4Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. What did the child commit?<br />
Yes I have 4 children.</p>
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		<title>By: La Shawn</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/10/24/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-61446</link>
		<dc:creator>La Shawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1594#comment-61446</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m itching to weigh in on the babies-aren&#039;t-born-sinners meme, but I&#039;ll let Christian commenters jump in first, especially the Reformed readers. :?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m itching to weigh in on the babies-aren&#8217;t-born-sinners meme, but I&#8217;ll let Christian commenters jump in first, especially the Reformed readers. <img src='http://lashawnbarber.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif' alt=':?' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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