Saturday, February 4: Commenting is closed on this post. See Part II, Intelligence: Some Research.
2/3/06 — Next post: Studies pro and con.
***scroll down for lots of updates***
In 2006, we can openly discuss whether homosexuals should be allowed to marry and adopt children. We debate whether teenage girls have the right to slaughter their unborn in the womb without parental permission. Our tax dollars pay for a government school system that shows films to middle-schoolers on how to use condoms.
Each of these topics is considered fit for general consumption. But there’s one thing that people don’t talk much about in America: cognitive differences among the races.
Intelligence and whether it is inheritable are taboo. If you even hint at it in “polite” company, people get nervous. “We shouldn’t be talking about this.”
Generally, some races are “smarter” than others. Although study after study after study shows otherwise, some people deny differences exist. Others accept it. People who accept it argue among themselves about what causes the differences: nature or nurture. Is intelligence passed on through genes, or does it depend on how/where an individual grows up?
If I wanted to pull a Margaret Sanger, I’d say that “less smart” races ought to produce fewer offspring, but I don’t and will never believe that.
Researchers have concluded that intelligence is both inheritable and affected by environment. Why is talking about this so important? Because how intelligent we are affects our lives (as well as others). You don’t need to be Einstein to live a good, decent, and productive life, but high cognitive abilities give us extra “fuel” to think critically and use reason to make good decisions that take into consideration the long-term consequences of our actions. That’s only one of a multitude of reasons.
Discussing cognitive abilities is also important because it can and should lead us to ideas on how to raise abilities in individuals, which brings me to the focus of this post: tests that measure general intelligence, or g, as it’s known. We’re always reading about some fire or police department concerned that black applicants are scoring too low on civil service examinations. We also read that such tests are discriminatory. Instead of figuring out how to raise these scores, the people making the decisions almost always choose to rig the test to get the politically correct result.
I’ve written about dumbing down tests on occasion. For instance, the Denver Fire Department hadn’t hired a black applicant in five years. Last year they decided to hire a consulting firm to develop a new test, and I surmised they planned to make the test easy so more minorities could pass it. I wanted to know exactly how they proposed to do that. What was it about the test that needed changing? What did the test measure and was it important for the job?
To me, that is the main point in all this. The differences exist, but how important are they on the job, for example? I believe that is what should be talked about, not a sweeping denial of the differences. There’s too much evidence to the contrary.
I made phone calls, spoke to people, conducted interviews, took notes — I wanted to write an attention-getting feature story on why the government was either dropping these exams or dumbing them down (changing them to pass-fail, watering down “hard” portions, reducing the g load, etc.). I blogged about it in a follow-up post.
Before I spoke to the people at a consulting firm hired by the Denver Fire Department, I did my homework. I spent a few hours searching for and reading stories and studies about standardized tests, civil service exams, etc., and I came to a preliminary conclusion. Such tests, designed to measure general intelligence, are said to be g-loaded. For reasons rarely talked about, whites generally outperform blacks on such tests. To put it another way, whites generally have higher cognitive ability than blacks.
Now such a statement is controversial, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. You’ll find studies to support it and studies that attempt to prove it false. Now here’s the really sad and ignorant part: any white person who writes a paper to support the statement is branded and dismissed as a racist, swept under the rug. Newspapers don’t write about these kind of studies, and if they do, it’s usually in the op-ed section where a liberal journalist can tear them down.
I hope to move beyond that. I decided not to write a story about this, but I think I should. At the very least, I’ll blog about my interviews with the consulting firm and Denver fire chief in subsequent posts.
Talking about this issue is also important because the inability to do well, or at least as well as whites, on standardized tests is the reason race preferences exist. It’s the reason gobs of money are spent on urban schools and others with a large black student body. No matter how much money taxpayers spend, student achievement test scores barely move and the black-white achievement gap never closes. It’s the reason a low-income white student outperforms a black student from an upper middle-class household.
We may not talk about this issue, but we’re aware of it. Black liberals are always accusing me of “dumping on black culture” and “putting down black folks” and other irritatingly vague charges, and no doubt they’ll do the same in this case. But it’s time to talk about it. I hate “affirmative action” and condescending “protected group” status.
This is the first of three posts I plan to write on this subject. In the second post I’ll discuss recent and relevant research on race differences in intelligence. I’ll post links to studies that conclude such differences exist and are inheritable and studies that attempt to prove differences are not inheritable. I’ll say at the outset, based on the literature, most researches pretty much agree that differences exist. The emphasis is on whether general intelligence can be improved and whether tests measuring cognitive ability are even relevant or necessary.
In the third post, I’ll consider your responses and the general conclusions of the studies. I’ll blog about possible solutions to the problem, how to raise test scores, and anything new and interesting I uncover from additional studies and your comments.
If you have anecdotes to share, inside information, or general concerns about the subject matter, leave a comment or e-mail me.
Related stories:
- Appellate court rules against Shreveport in race discrimination lawsuit (I e-mailed Fire Chief Kelvin Cochran with a couple of questions. In the next post, I’ll tell you what he told me.)
- ‘Jump-start’ the system
- Changes in police hiring weighed
By the way, I’ll be on the Treo for the next few hours, so typos will be fixed later.
Update (2:30 p.m.): Back to the desktop. I adore my Treo, but blogging with it is extremely difficult. Based on comments and e-mail so far, I want to make a few additional points:
1) Sorry to burst your bubble, but general intelligence isn’t some amorphous, hard-to-define concept floating out there in the ether. It is indeed a “thing” that can be measured. Nature or nurture? Does it matter? How much?
2) As always, I’m speaking in generalities. Generally speaking, whites score higher on g-loaded tests. That’s not to say that a black individual is incapable or has never scored higher on g-loaded tests than whites, or vice versa. It’s funny how some people are willing to accept group identity/generalities when it comes to victim status, skin color entitlements, and preferences, but unwilling to even discuss group identity/generalities in relation to cognitive abilities. Human nature is a powerful thing.
3) While all this talking and blogging about intelligence differences may seem academic, it has enormous implications on public policy, which affects everyone. Because blacks score disproportionately lower on certain tests, for example, should the government scrap the tests altogether? Dilute the g factor? Incidentally, government lowers admissions and hiring standards all the time. It is widely known and accepted that most colleges and universities, particularly graduate schools, have separate admission tracks for blacks and whites. Blacks are typically judged against black applicants, not the general applicant pool, which is patently unfair, condescending, and unconstitutional. This is what’s known as “affirmative action.”
Keep in mind as you share anecdotes that many employment tests have already been “dumbed down.” To assume that tests are as challenging as they were 50 years ago is erroneous.
4) I have been accused on innumerable occasions of “pandering to a white audience.” The risk inherent in discussing controversial issues on a public site is that some people will take advantage of this blog, using it as a soapbox and confirmation that their “racist” notions validated.
Well, I can’t help that. As far as commenting goes, I have one really big rule despite this long comment policy: don’t get personal and don’t insult me. Based on a completely unscientific hunch, I assume most of my commenters are white men. Black liberals are free to comment. What ends up happening, generally speaking, is blacks tend to get personal (especially the men) because they’re angry that another black person is saying these things and that some whites may consider me an authority on these topics. I understand the anger and frustration, and I am not an authority on anything except, perhaps, what makes a blog “good.”
Some — black or white — may use my posts as fuel for racialist fires, but that’s the risk I take living and expressing myself in a free country. There are millions of blogs out there. If this one raises your blood pressure, please surf elsewhere. Life is too short.
Finally, please read this entire post, others linked within it, and at least a few comments before you add your views. And reading a few posts in the archives wouldn’t hurt. Start with the Race Preferences category.
Later…One more point. The so-called bias in IQ tests doesn’t exist. These tests measure certain abilities as math aptitude, spatial visualization, and reading comprehension. Mathematical equations are not biased. It’s clear to me that some people are stuck in the 1970s-era “culturally biased” tests meme. If such a bias exists on American IQ tests, it’s against non-native English speakers in the verbal portions, not English-speaking black Americans.
Even later…In response to a “bigoted people will use subtle differences to explain the achievement gap that exists between the races” comment, implying that we shouldn’t even bring up the subject of race and intelligence (!), commenter Antonio writes:
I am black as well and generally disagree with LaShawn on many posts. But I believe it is important to have this conversation. I don’t think anyone is suggesting we return to the days of Plessy v. Ferguson or re-instill the notion that blacks are inherently inferior. But we must face reality. There is an achievement gap that is not going away. If we understand the root of the problem, then I think we all will be better armed to find and implement solutions.
In my opinion, parenting will be one key to breaking the cycle of under-achievement. Even if parents themselves are uneducated (like many were during the pre-civil rights movement era), they can still provide a wholesome and nurturing environment in which their children can develop. If an environment is created at home in which children are encouraged to achieve from birth, I suspect children will have a better chance at success. To achieve change, black folks are ultimately gonna have to alter their thinking on child rearing, as well as other matters.
Arguing that this discussion will give license to bigots and should therefore be halted isn’t going to change the fact that an achievement gap exists. The only way black folks will be able to change that fact is by actually improving our achievement levels.
This kind of calm and reasonable dialogue is what I hope to generate.
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I think this is an interesting subject, and I’m glad you’ve raised it.
Part of the problem is that there really is no universal agreement on what intelligence is. Is the ability to retain information (in which case, Dustin Hoffman’s “Rainman” would be highly intelligent)? Or is it the ability to solve problems through deductive reasoning?
Then, even assuming that we can agree on a working definition of “intelligence”, there is the controversial question of whether certain tests accurately measure “intelligence” (once we have defined it).
My own sense is this: IQ tests merely measure how well you do on IQ tests, and nothing else. An “aptitude test” merely measures how well you do on that aptitude test, and nothing else. There may be race difference in the results, but that could simply be because of innocent test construction bias. And even if there are authentic race differences, they are meaningless, because what is being measured really has no bearing on anything “real world”.
That’s my two cents. But I haven’t done as much work and thought as you have. I look forward to the upcoming posts.
The problem with so called standardized testing is that the standards are usually only obvious to the group designing the test. Standardized tests rarely measure cognitive ability, they do however quite adequately measure an individuals ability to think like the designer of the test; which is the reason test-prep is such a lucrative industry. While statistics show the overall scores on standardized tests, rarely do they break down, sections or questions on tests in a similar manner. For example on some standardized tests, researchers found that while men overwhelming out performed women on the test scored in its entirety, there were sections where women outperformed men. What “standardized” test developers used to do in those instances is to remove those sections from the tests to insure that the standard of men outperforming women remained intact however today we live in a more progressive time. Under the guise of developing tests that are geared more toward assessing the analytical abilities of the test taker, we move farther and farther from questions with definite answers into the realm of essays, analogies and how would you solve it problems. This serves to open the door even wider to the objectivity of the test designer and scorer. For example consider the following problem.
Categorize the following into three groups:
a robin, grass, a fire hydrant, a garden hose, a blue jay, a stop sign, a parrot, topaz.
These objects could be categorized in any number of ways however if I as the test designer have a particular answer in mind, does that substantiate that you as test taker, who may not share my cataloguing technique, are less intelligent than the average person who thinks as I do.
Well that has been the beauty of standardized tests over the past several decades, I as test designer get to determine the inanity of others based on how good they are at thinking like me. For instance on the GRE and SAT you’ll find that the directions ask the test-taker to find the best answer, not the right answer. Well we all know that the best answer is the one that the test developer thinks is right. By asking for the best answer you eliminate the test-takers ability to justify his or her perspective and by default consider anyone who does not think as you do dumb and anyone who shares your perspectives brilliant.
A wise philosopher once said:
“Children don’t give wrong answers you just have to figure out the question that they are answering.”
Maybe there should be deeper evaluation into why people choose the “wrong” answers as opposed to haphazardly altering biased tests. Once you assess how people view and analyze the questions maybe then you could develop standardized tests that really take into consideration the standards of the society, but then that may provide greater opportunities to everyone and who wants that when we can just say that certain people are dumber than others.
A wise philosopher once said:
Children don’t give wrong answers you just have to figure out the question that they are answering.
Where does judgment fit into all this.
There are lots of intelligent people who make bad/wrong decisions. Choices.
Making a choice vs. raw intellect.
And judgment is handed down. If your mother, grandmother, and great grandmother were all single parents on welfare, you might see that as your destiny, despite having a very high IQ. Genetic choices decisions that were made by ancestors—it’s hard to fight that. It’s part of identity, despite a high IQ.
With Blacks, it isn’t about IQ. It’s about a whole race of people who aren’t living up to their potential, whatever that may be. A whole race of people who throw away their gifts that they do have. Intuition. Vibes. —That matters a lot more, and I see a whole race of people who don’t use even that.
Making bad choices and poor judgment affects lots of people, no matter the IQ.
” “Children don’t give wrong answers you just have to figure out the question that they are answering.—
~Excellent quote, excellent point. In working with children and adults over the last several years there is one thing that has become abundantly clear: people have different learning styles. These styles are affected by personality and environment.
The way a person learns can dramatically affect the outcome of any test. Should general service tests be “dumbed down” to accomodate these differences? No. However, those differences cannot be taken for granted. You could toss a book at one person and that person could build a working 4 stroke engine minutes after reading it. Another person has a tough time grasping what the book says but when a person verbally explains the concept, this person can not only build the 4 stroke but also other engine types. Yet another person may need to see the engine built once but then never forgets how.
Can we call one of those people less or more intelligent? I don’t think so. There are examples of inventors and great thinkers of the past who were in some cases illiterate in terms of reading ability. I know a man who cannot read past 8th grade English but has (legally) hustled his family to near independant wealth. Is that less intelligent?
Does a 14 year old White kid from a trailer park with almost no education and angry parents learn in the same way and at the same rate as a young Black kid of the same age from an affluent background?
I certainly believe that there are veral differences between ethnic groups, but I think that pertaining to the realm of thinking that they’d need to stay in the field of cognitive ability. Instead of intelligence I would look more at level of knowledge and awareness because intelligence is far too intangible to quantify.
If I see a man rise to the top of his widget company and lose it all through foolish investments and ignoring the advice of his counsel, and another man starts a farm in the jungle but brings it to the level where it sustains himself, his family and his tribe without ehausting the resources available, I’m gonna pick the farmer as more intelligent even though he may be less well informed than the businessman.
Knowledge is all about what you know, but wisdom is using what you know in the best way. If intelligent is being used in the same context as wisdom, then it’s easy to answer. It becomes a matter of learning+good usage.
What is intelligence?
LaShawn,
The question has been does culture correlate with intelligence? Why is it that students today seem less able to learn then forty years ago? Why is a that white people in the mountains of West Virginia and the Carolinas are less intelligent than racially the same group in suburbia? A high school student who is black is said not to be because both parents have college education. His mother is junior high math teacher. Why is it that doing well in school is trying to be white?
The lack of nutrition can slow brain and lack of stimulation of babies can do the same. The nature versus nurture is always in play. My mother was 5 foot and I obeyed when I was a lot taller. The language and actions of today would have gotten me in trouble. I was not trained as social scientist but rather physical. Why is it that people from outside the USA come here and do better than those many generation native born. Blacks did very well in school until push was for
African – Americans.
James M. Barber
Wow. That was my first reaction to this post. “Wow!”
I am very glad that you are taking this task upon yourself. I will follow these posts very closely. I teach music (voice lessons and choir), and run into different combinations of musical ability and cognitive skills (for reading music, music theory, etc.). It would be interesting to extend this research into the area of the arts, as well.
Thanks for taking this on. Good luck and God bless!
Lashawn,
We disagree sharply here. Though blacks fall behind whites on standardized tests now, that does not explain the “Dunbar” situation of the early 20th century…wherein the highest standardized test scores in the country came from Dunbar High School, right there in the District of Colombia.
Black achievement now, or lack thereof (where appropriate, because I cringe at such generalities, particualy when looking at my mensa menbership card), is due to the social limitations pffered us by the socialists when they infiltrated our infrastructure.
Not, as is alleged, because of any inheirent deficiencies.
Daring and bold, La Shawn.
I just read Black Rednecks, White Liberals, and I have talked to my friends about what makes someone smart. There are also other works that I have read about this issue, and I have my own experiences to draw from about this as well.
I am of the opinion that intelligence can be learned. We talk about how important it is to be able to write and speak proper English, but we do not realize why this is important cognitively.
It is just as important to be able to THINK IN ENGLISH as well, which is why ESL students typically do even worse than black students on cognitive tests in America.
I was able to score over a 1400 on my SAT’s in 2000 without help. As a black teenage male, that was not supposed to happen.
It is precisely because I have a love of learning and have been reading for pleasure and instruction NON-STOP since about the fourth grade; I also got a jump start by learning to read before the age of three. My youngest cousin on my mother’s side is the same way.
I do believe these things can be learned, but it takes a change in attitude and habits.
As the issue stands, I am absolutely opposed to the dilution of cognitive and civil service tests to make them easier for blacks. What an utterly stupid concept.
Differences do exist in cognitive abilities between broad racial categories, between sexes and within races and sexes. Some of those differences can’t be explained away by environment.
We, as a group score lower than white folk, who score lower than asians, who score lower than a non-race of Jews. I throw the Jews in, becuase incorporated into their faith is education. They are required to study by their faith. So while I think the evidence is clear that gaps will persist, I think the evidence also supports that it can be narrowed.
The question is what are the implications on public policy? According to a study by the Heritage Foundation, only 49% of black children are graduating from high school. While all of that is certainly not attributable to intelligence, it brings into question public funding of mandatory schooling and, in my mind, the types of schooling that should be available.
Should parents have an option to send their children to vocational or technical schools or into apprentiships instead of high school?
It is not the end of the world to admit that there are cognitive differences between races. Intelligence is just one component of success and hapiness in life.
Actually, there is. It is g. Take a look at the info on it. It isn’t credibly disputed, and has been confirmed by studies focusing across several disciplines (psychology, genetics, statistics.)
My own anecdotal observation does not support your conclusion that a poor white kid will outperform a middle income black kid. I see the dominant influence on financial success (is that linked to intelligence?) being driven by the “acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree” theory. Usually (but not always) if the family culture and community influence does not value education (being smart) the kids will not value it either. Thomas Sowell has written several great articles and a book or two on the subject.
#7 Mark is absolutely right in describing the differences among us in the style of how we learn; however, I also propose that we could be somewhat predisposed to a particular style of learning by inherited traits. Therefore, we’re dealing with several variables for success that “could” relate to race or culture depending on whether there is a match or mismatch in style between student and teacher. How do white students do when learning from Asian teachers compared to Asians learning from Asian teachers? I really don’t know the answer to this question and I don’t purport to be an expert on this topic. I simply wonder.
Not that I am an expert, or even a well-read layman, but I tend to agree with Glamchild and Stephen Johnson, combined. As an artist I am extremely interested in perception, how we as people read the world around us. Culture directly effects our perception, by teaching us from our very beginnings what the world ‘is.’ The anglosphere reads left-to-right, top-to-bottom. When we look at a page or an image, that effects what we perceive as important. (try pricing ad space in a newspaper for various spots on the page to see what I mean)
Whether or not there are genetic issues involved, I would have to say that culture is much more important, as quite frankly- we are all ‘mutts’ genetically, even the Brahmans on Beacon Hill here in Boston. Our culture, in its race to the bottom, sweeps up everything with it. The more you rely on the pop-culture, the faster you are swept up.
Another thing, intelligence is a dynamic issue, not one fixed in time. I can not read and retain information as fast or as well as I could in college. I also suffer from adult depression, and can look back over time and see that periods where I was simply stupid. With a culture that undermines the value of the individual, robs people of incentive and responsibility, and teaches that the victim is the highest status to achieve, is it any wonder that all kids now (regardless of race, finances etc.) performing so poorly.
Before you even talk about standardized tests, you’ve got to get past things such as motivation and effort.
I don’t believe anyone knows what Blacks can, or can’t do, on standardized tests. Blacks are so afraid of “acting white”….they sabotage themselves right from the get-go.
For all we know, Blacks might far outrank everyone else. You’d have to cut through the “acting white” thing, though, to find that out.
02 02 06
Kman is right in entirety. This is an important issue to discuss, but there are many other factors that go into “an intelligence” other than how they do on tests. The biggest issue is how to define intelligence. Part of learning is synthesizing information from your own experiences and piecing things together from a familiar environment. Some of my mothers’ students had a hard time learning multipilication. When she resorted to looking up the current rap songs and talked about how many babies mommas some rapper had AND corrolated that to groups of numbers, they magically got the concept. There are a couple of main issues here. First, the majority of my mothers’ students aren’t Black. They are Mexican, White and Southeast Asian. So there is a dumbing down occuring in our culture and A LOT has to do with exposure and opportunity. So although this is a tough subject, I think the other aspects of how we actually define intelligence should be further explored.
Right Wing Professor has some EXCELLENT posts about these issues that are pervasive in education today independent of RACE.
Lastly, there was a study done on Amazonian tribes in the rain forest. They looked at their ability to recognize geometries inherent in nature. They didn’t have a developed written formalism, but they knew (very well) key concepts in geometry. That shows intelligence to me, yet I don’t think they would do well on a US IQ test because their frame of reference is so different than our mainstream knowledge base…Ergo cultural differences may affect things too….
Thought provoking post LaShawn.
Great post LaShawn. Liberals and the left have completely muted whites on this subject. A subject that is key to improving a wide range of problems; from the gap to race relations in general.
Be sure to point out the Asian factor in this debate. Asians are always the first chairs in the orchestra, but whites aren’t dumbing down Mozart to compensate. Or looking for “alternative” ways to learn the violin. I see white cello students with posters of Yo-Yo Ma
hanging in their rooms and bloody blisters on the tips of their fingers.
Again, American whites have lost their spines in this and a few other taboo debates (and Europeans would faint upon sight of someone even thinking such thoughts). Liberals are free to run inner city school systems like they have for the past 30 years, and perpetually shrug and scratch their heads at test scores before instinctively blaming whites then asking for billions more from taxpayers. And getting every penny – while black kids fall further and further behind.
We need your voice LaShawn.
So who is classifying the races? what is black? what is white? in these instances, how do those who are “other” perform?
When most say that a white person has a higher cognitive intellenge than a black person, and they speak in generalities, then they are labeled racist.
according to your studies, a black child is not able to score higher then whites. is that correct? If this isn’t the case then it is not a true statement.
There has been a permutation of the intelligence paradigm in America as we have seen different races relocate here and excel educationally. Some of them have come from backgrounds of great duress,yet they have adopted and adapted amazingly in the US educational system. As someone pointed out Asians *generally* outperform whites in this area. I’m not so sure I should get riled up about the intelligence pecking order of the races, because (1)if it is true and immutable, then there is nothing that can change it. And (2)If it is not true nor immutable, then races which are currently stuck in complaint mode due to perceived government inequality have no one to blame but themselves.
I wince every time I see a black kid(I take notice) on television who is in articulate and unable to express themselves in a cognitive way. Generally and I emphasize generally it is male species which has this difficultly more often than not. Can that be attributed to some inborn inability to perform? I don’t know. It may be gender issue which raises an altogether different troubling set of questions.
LaShawn the reason I believe that people are so skittish about open discussion of alleged cognitive differences between the races is because we are deeply race conscious in this country. Whether one compliments a race on a certain dominant quality or criticizes them on a quality, that person is sure to be branded a racist.
Nevertheless, as you stated we talk about everything else. We might as well put this one on the table and work it out. Good post, and I look forward to the series.
Sorry. I do not believe this. I agree with much of the conservative movement, but the underlying theme of LaShawn’s original post is what drives me and many African-Americans away: Whites are smarter than Blacks.
I think that most white (Liberal and Conservative alike) people accept LaShawn’s post on face value because it is what they have believed their whole lives anyway. That is what Darwin’s “Origin of Species: The Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life” is all about right? Blacks are really on a lower rung of the evolutionary cycle of man, right? That is baloney.
As an African-American, who lives and works and is friends with white, black, brown and yellow people I know there are smart and dumb in all races.
Blacks in general may test lower, but to confirm Darwinism and say that this is because of genetic differences in races is a copout.
I think the discrepancy has more to do with the moral erosion of the African-American community and the destruction of the black family over the last 40 years than anything else.
Wow La Shawn,
One of your best write-ups to date (and you have a lot of them). There are quite a few issues that we want to pretend do not exist and as we keep the blinders on, our childern and the next generations suffer (particularly in the black community). The truth hurts, but it doens’t make it any less the truth.
I’ll just say that my own observations have led me to believe that culture is the overwhelming factor.
My position on matters like this is that “Children Who Don’t Buy Into Racial Stereotypes Do Great Things” as I pointed out in a post at http://www.independentconservative.com/2006/01/29/kayla_arnold/
Which is why a man like Dr. Benjamin Carson can come from the worst part of Baltimore. To me it’s nothing more than a matter of culture, which helps to instill discipline, which helps a student to excel.
Regarding other physical muscles outside of the brain, it has been a long running belief that Blacks were naturally more athletic. Then the White Europeans started getting NBA contracts
.
I look forward to reading the remainder of your posts on this topic.
I have to agree with SLE based on my experinces…culture, or nurture has a far greater impact on this issue, than genetics. When I lived in South Texas, there were far too few blacks for them to really form their own community. So if you were black and wanted to have friends they would usually be white, or Hispanic. And I really didn’t notice any difference in general intelligence between blacks, Hispanics, and whites. However, when I moved to Memphis, it was a culture shock for me. I had a hard time understanding the language of black people, and there was definitely a tendency for whites, and blacks to form their own communities; there were exceptions of course.
Memphis public schools, by the way, are in terrible shape. There are some schools where, more than 60% of the students failed the standardized tests and were not eligible to promote to the next grade. And it’s interesting to note that Memphis leadership keeps ending up in criminal investigations.
Why the culture turned out that way I honestly don’t know, maybe history, maybe bad school policies, but it’s the only thing that makes any sense to me.
I am amazed at the post-modern thought in some of these comments. My favorite piece of po-mo pabulum is this:
A wise philosopher once said:
“Children don’t give wrong answers you just have to figure out the question that they are answering.â€
That is not wisdom; it is foolishness. We could turn it on its head and say “Children don’t give right answers. You just have to figure out the question they think they are answering.” They may be answering 2+2 while you asked 5-1. You just never know. Yuck.
I think a number of studies have shown that with intelligence and certain other characteristics, a genetic difference between racial averages is not significant compared to the genetic difference between members of the same race.
If scores from Race A fall between 80 and 120, with a 100 mean, and Race B scores fall between 81 and 121, with 101 mean, sure, maybe you can say statistically people from B are smarter than A but that’s useless information- you know nothing about how any two chosen people would compare, whether any random person is suitable for a certain job, etc.
To craft any public policy based on that information would be equivalent to saying that since, on average, members of Race A are 3% more nearsighted than Race B, we are going to issue corrective eyeglasses (all identical, of course) to all members of Race A.
Ben
I guess what the big question would be is, In general, do we allow people to use the information gathered to make excuses?
For example, let’s say that these findings are correct, that “on Average” blacks do not score well as whites. Does this give a teacher the excuse not to teach a black child the work because this child won’t grasp it?
Conversely, does this give the average black child to not do the work because it’s well known that blacks on average are not as smart as whites or Asians?
what is gained by doing this if individuals can rise up beyond this generality?
One point when it comes to Darwinism and intelligence. The anthropological history that is CW right now is that humans migrated out of Africa in two or more waves starting as far back as 100,000 years ago (and I’m not great on the time frame, so if it’s only 50K years, don’t get your shorts in a bunch, it’s still a honkin, long time ago) due to environmental changes. That means we all started out as Africans, and from the way environment effects the pigmentation of human skin over generations, we also all started out with dark skin.
So, some people with dark skin stayed in Africa under increasingly hostile conditions and others left, eventually evolving into other ‘racial groups.’
Now, does that mean that the people who adapted to differing conditions on different continents became smarter than others, driven by the demands of that adaptation? Or does it mean that the people who stayed and adapted to the worsening and more challenging environment of Africa became smarter than others driven by the demands of THAT adaptation?
If you want to apply Darwinism to the debate of race you will always end up somewhere you don’t want to be.
Personally, I would be perfectly happy to believe that the San People are inherently smarter than I am. On a practical level I don’t think such distinctions provide any answers, which is what I believe La Shawn is looking for.
There are demonstrable differences between different races on a medical level. Blacks and people of Mediterranean decent are much more likely to have sickle cell anemia than someone like me, who is half Swedish. This is an adaptation to avoid disease. Someone of my ancestors is much more likely to be susceptible to malaria than someone of La Shawn’s.
However, when it comes to issues of intelligence, the differences, if they are indeed there at all, are completely drowned out by issues of culture (how we are taught to think, of ourselves and the world, physical issues like early care and nutrition etc.). I do not think that the French are less smart than I am. I do think that their culture is self-destructive enough to put them at a high risk of devolving into an 8th century slave of the greater Caliphate.
Our entire western (and specifically American) culture has been steadily undermined for over a generation. Until we heal the culture itself we have no hope of any true healing of one subset of the culture.
Speaking of anecdotal…my brother had to go through a series of tests as part of our state employment commission’s efforts to get him a job/education after a layoff. One test was simply filling in small circles with a pencil. The test was timed, and had two or three pages of circles to fill in, literally a couple of hundred. He finished only part of one page in the time alloted. He told the test administrator that he didn’t do very well. The administrator told my brother that he actually did quite well. “Why the extra pages of circles?” he asked. The test administrator advised that Oriental women (generally) were capable of doing all the pages within the time alloted, and they just needed the extra pages to get a full measurement of their abilities.
“It is widely known and accepted that most colleges and universities, particularly graduate schools, have separate admission tracks for blacks and whites. Blacks are typically judged against black applicants, not the general applicant pool, which is patently unfair, condescending, and unconstitutional. This is what’s known as “affirmative action.—
~Now this is what throws me because if we accept a biological difference in intelligence (here I am referring to ultimate learning capacity – not ability to function in a given environment) then this practice must cease being considered “unfair and condescending”. It could theoretically ’cause a constitutional crisis because no longer could all men be treated equal because that in itself would become unfair.
UNLESS
Someone could come up with a way to even the playing field which still requires all contestants (applicants…whatever) to meet the same measurable criteria.
I agree with Independent Conservative’s comments regarding a link between intelligence and culture. Within the United States the genetic differences between recognized races are becoming more and more blurred with each passing decade. I believe this genetic mixing would make it more difficult to make conclusive link between intelligence and race.
In countries which have less mixing between the races (e.g. Great Britain), Africans and West Indians are more likely to have advanced college degrees than the native Anglo-Saxon community. In fact a great deal of my math and science professors were either African or West-Indian. This would lead me to conclude that differences in intelligence are more likely to follow cultural rather than racial/genetic lines.
LaShawn
You are right in saying that most reputable scientists and scholars and reasonable people know and accept that differences in cognitive ability exists among the various races. I acknowledge a person’s genetics may play a role in determining cognitive ability. I suspect, however, environment plays a larger role in determining the ability to learn.
I was introduced to a study a few years ago that talked about mental development in children and toddlers. Without getting into a scientific discussion, the study explained that “synapses” or mental connectors form the foundation for cognitive ability and that these “synapses” are created through environmental stimuli, e.g. reading, music, diet, etc. The most profound and compelling part of the study was electronic images comparing the “synapses” in infants and toddlers in an environment rich with stimuli with those of babies in environments with virtually no stimuli. The differences were stark and eye-opening. The babies and toddlers that had positive environmental exposure had significantly more “synapses” than children with limited environmental stimuli. The point of the study was to show how nurturing is very critical in the early stages of mental development. For me, this study help explain much of the difference in cognitive ability among the races.
Because environment, in my opinion, has a profound impact on cognitive ability, I look at differences in the cultures to explain the apparent gap. In the black community, unfortunately, you have many people who don’t invest time in making sure infants receive necessary and vital stimuli. Few are reading books to babies because many don’t view it as something you do with babies. Black people generally speak gibberish to babies instead of speaking simple english. Also, many black people yell and scream at their babies or just leave them crying, which does nothing for the mental development of those babies. Also, many of these babies and infants have very poor diets. Let me be clear, I don’t think its just the general environment of inner-city or low-income blacks. Certainly, there are some people who take the time to nurture their children. However, there is a deficiency of nurturing in the black community, which I think stems from ignorance about the importance of positive stimuli in the development of babies and toddlers.
If we could improve parenting in a child’s early years, I suspect you would probably see a shrinkage in the intelligence gap. This is just just my opinion.
La Shawn,
or the attitude of the caller), I don’t answer that either and then ask why do they need to now, are they a doctor, do they have some new info on Tasax or Sickle Cell or some other disease that affects certain groups…if not, they don’t need to know. Normally I get into some pretty interesting conversations based on this and the person asking the questions ends up questioning WHY DO THEY NEED TO KNOW MY RACE?? Anyway, I did surprise my counselor at my current school because all my applications and testing were done online or through mail (due to being overseas) so they didn’t know I was black (or non white) and I LIKE IT THAT WAY. Granted this doesn’t work all the time but when it does, the feeling beats race preferences any day 
If only our politicians who claim to feel this way would back their beliefs like you do… we might just get somewhere. You know how I handle the dummied down race test (especially if they don’t see my face in the process)… I choose other and mark AMERICAN ad my race. When in phone interviews (I can sound black or white depending on the mood for the day
I too believe that environment as it relates to early development plays a significant role in cognitive ability. A child who has his basic needs met consistently in my opinion is more likely to have normal cognitive development than one who does not. My wife is a teacher and her observations are the same. The children who appear to have a stable household are more motivated than those who do not. If a child is hungry they will be cranky and disruptive. Genetic and the cultural deprivation are also significant factors.
I wonder if anyone doing research has ever taken an sample from elite High Schools or Prep Schools that contained a diverse racial and economic mix of students. Then compared test results taking into account a students study methods (self study, school tutors and professional tutor services). Students in these environments have the key factors for academic success which are self motivation, involve parents and a quality and competitive learning atmosphere.
In your analysis please consider that the SAT’s for all kids are being ‘dumbed down’ because test performance for everyone is diminishing.
Toward the end of the Roman empire I have read that the Romans became progressively more stupid becuase the water they were drinking contained lead.
I wonder if the Romans, like modern Americans, also dumbed down their academic standards rather than tried to find out what the problem was.
>>Sorry. I do not believe this. I agree with much of the conservative movement, but the underlying theme of LaShawn’s original post is what drives me and many African-Americans away: Whites are smarter than Blacks.>>
You’re mistaken here. The underlying theme of LaShawn’s post is that there is a difference in the scores of blacks and white on certain tests. She then raises the question of why that might be. She does not propose an answer except the one that is frequently assumed. If she simply accepted that answer, I don’t think she’d pose the question. Instead she asks if that could possibly be the truth or should we be looking for other root causes.
>>I think that most white (Liberal and Conservative alike) people accept LaShawn’s post on face value because it is what they have believed their whole lives anyway.>>
Results of tests have nothing to do with “beliefs”. Perceptions of the _cause_ of those results frequently _do_ have preconceived biases.
>> That is what Darwin’s “Origin of Species: The Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life†is all about right? Blacks are really on a lower rung of the evolutionary cycle of man, right? That is baloney.>>
Ok…I’ll accept that that is baloney.
>>As an African-American, who lives and works and is friends with white, black, brown and yellow people I know there are smart and dumb in all races.>>
Agreed.
>>Blacks in general may test lower, but to confirm Darwinism and say that this is because of genetic differences in races is a copout.>>
It might be…in fact, I happen to think that it is, but that’s no reason not to ask the question.
>>I think the discrepancy has more to do with the moral erosion of the African-American community and the destruction of the black family over the last 40 years than anything else. >>
I don’t know that that’s the only factor, but I agree with you that it is certainly a contributing one.
I appreciate LaShawn’s raising this question for discussion because a problem exists which is apparently a racial one. It is not possible to correct that problem if we are unable to discuss it without someone getting hot under the collar about it.
The problem with this discussion is that bigoted people will use subtle differences to explain the achievement gap that exists between the races. Most people who believe what you say will also admit that the intelligence differences are not large, so how does this explain ANY of the problems that African-Americans experience today? Bigoted people will say that blacks are less intelligent and therefore lets not bother concerning ourselves with poverty and violence. I am picking up on this tone from your posts already and I suspect that many of your readers will feel the same way. There are some subjects that are best left alone. Nothing positive can come from this line of thought and this is why real academicians don’t touch it. Not your bogyman liberals.
P.S. I’m black
Suffice it to say I’m not a “real academic” and will discuss it. It’s called freedom of thought, freedom of expression, and I believe something positive can come from these discussions. Many academics discuss it; they just don’t do so publicly. It does us no good to keep it in the closet and pretend it doesn’t exist. – Admin
I doubt that intelligence differences between races really make much real-life difference in school test score results. In my experience, the ethic that parents communicate to their children about the value of education and learning is far more important to educational success.
Regardless of race, children tend to succeed in school when they have parents who are engaged with them in learning, who are themselves committed to the value of learning, and who have succeeded themselves in school.
So many social problems have higher rates among blacks than other races: divorce, teen pregnancy, drug use, gang activity, absent fathers — and then there is the whole area of ghetto speech, of dissing education as “being white,” peer pressure to ditch studies for other more cool pursuits.
These are the things that are holding blacks back. Black children who manage somehow to beat the odds and avoid these problems almost universally do better in school and in life.
It seems real academians don’t touch it because they spend to much time these days teaching our children about their sex lives and not how to read, write and do arithmatic…
dang I done got started
I’ve noticed that most of the commenters assume that general intelligence tests also correlate with doing well in school.
Is that a valid correlation? My husband, our children, and me all have scored fairly high in IQ tests. However, my husband and our sons have difficulty with reading, writing, and verbally articulating what they are trying to say. These difficulties are reflected in their grades in school, but not in their IQ scores.
The SAT originally was developed to predict which applicants had the ability to do well in college and not as an “Intelligence Test.” Merely being “smart” is not an indicator of academic success. So to use SAT scores to measure something it was not designed to measure will give a false result.
I think it’s very important to keep that in mind–what is being tested and what tests are used–during this discussion.
Now Charlie just hit it on the head.
There are consequences to our poor choices (granted in America we would like to hide that under a rock also especially in academia:-)) It is only more prevalent in the black community where poor choice is waved off by guilty liberals as “oh they can’t help it”, “poor them”, “they’ve been oppressed for so long”, “it’s not their fault” etc, etc… and we sit and buy into that mentality, like little puppies. It takes away our responsibility factor, it takes away all guilt, it takes away personal accountability. This mentality stretches across financial lines, because if you find a poor parent who is involved in their child’s life and education, I guarantee you will find a child who can out perform anyone on a test (by involved in their life and education, we are talking more than what America deems involved… it’s a 24/7 job, especially for a black parent because they are fighting the peer pressure of the parents who want a rapper or basketball star as their child’s job… irregardless of the immoral life they lead, just bring in the bucks).
You are right LB, this is a tough subject and there are some ugly truths that some don’t want to face up to. I am glad you brought it up.
THANK YOU!!!
March Hare,
I did poorly on IQ test but always did well in school and took AP courses in highschool, so I would say no they do not (but then that was years ago so I don’t know if they are even the same as say 20+ years ago).
I’m not sure if IQ test, reasoning skills per se (many people in MENSA can’t wipe their own behind but they are called geniuses:-))
Regarding #26….Which is why a man like Dr. Benjamin Carson can come from the worst part of Baltimore…
Just to set the record straight Dr. Benjamin Carson is from Detroit.
Jack
I am black as well and generally disagree with LaShawn on many posts. But I believe it is important to have this conversation. I don’t think anyone is suggesting we return to the days of Plessy v. Ferguson or re-instill the notion that blacks are inherently inferior. But we must face reality. There is an achievement gap that is not going away. If we understand the root of the problem, then I think we all will be better armed to find and implement solutions.
In my opinion, parenting will be one key to breaking the cycle of under-achievement. Even if parents themselves are uneducated (like many were during the pre-civil rights movement era), they can still provide a wholesome and nurturing environment in which their children can develop. If an environment is created at home in which children are encouraged to achieve from birth, I suspect children will have a better chance at success. To achieve change, black folks are ultimately gonna have to alter their thinking on child rearing, as well as other matters.
Arguing that this discussion will give license to bigots and should therefore be halted isn’t going to change the fact that an achievement gap exists. The only way black folks will be able to change that fact is by actually improving our achievement levels.
Regarding what both Charlie and Renee have said, I agree. My wife and I home school our kids, and we were perplexed at the almost exclusive ‘whiteness’ of home schooling (at least in the Northeast) This (happily) seems to be changing. The education of our kids is a 24/7 issue, even if our kids are in an 8:00 – 3:00 school setting. Mother government has convinced many people that they no longer have a stake in the responsibility for their own lives. In spite of what I have read and know from growing up in the 60’s and 70’s of modern history, I am completely perplexed at how ‘I have a dream’ and ‘Ask not what you can do for your country’ have devolved into what we have today.
The spirit of liberalism; of self worth, responsibility, and the recognition that ‘from those to whom much is given, much will be required,’ has been lost from the public discourse.
To #47, thanks for the correction Scott.
An extraordinarily controversial subject, and your raising the issue produces in me quite a struggle (as, I suspect, it was intended to). While I consider that any subject ought to be fair game for the sake of honest and intelligent discourse, on the other hand, I find myself leaning toward the spirit, if not the letter, of jacks post above.
Though I am a black conservative, I am not at all inclined to place another weapon, whether perceived or real, into the hands of racists of any persuasion. To give assent to a generally agreed upon but largely unproven assertion may very well be doing just that. I agree with jack that I do sense a tendency which worries me a bit. Whether it is the residual paranoia of growing up through the public school system in Philadelphia or not, I am expressing here the feelings which some of the above posts evoke.
I think the discourse is useful because it suggests that more work needs to be done to determine the reality and nature of the perceived problem, and everyone is indeed entitled to express their opinion – that is a right I won’t deny anyone.
A final note: As a believer in Christ among many believers, much is made of how we take the Scriptures. From my own perspective and interpretive grid, I think that the text may actually militate against any view of cognitive differences between races (as opposed to defects) has a genetic origin. I’m still looking into it.
Now let’s see what made Benjamin Carson so great:
————————
Benjamin Carson was born in Detroit, Michigan. His mother Sonya had dropped out of school in the third grade, and married when she was only 13. When Benjamin Carson was only eight, his parents divorced, and Mrs. Carson was left to raise Benjamin and his older brother Curtis on her own. She worked at two, sometimes three, jobs at a time to provide for her boys.
Benjamin and his brother fell farther and farther behind in school. In fifth grade, Carson was at the bottom of his class. His classmates called him “dummy” and he developed a violent, uncontrollable temper.
When Mrs. Carson saw Benjamin’s failing grades, she determined to turn her sons’ lives around. She sharply limited the boys’ television watching and refused to let them outside to play until they had finished their homework each day. She required them to read two library books a week and to give her written reports on their reading even though, with her own poor education, she could barely read what they had written.
————————
http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/car1bio-1
Amazing what one caring mother can do!
I would just like to praise La Shawn for actually having the guts to post on a topic that is, essentially, taboo. I think it’s intellectually dishonest how anytime someone mentions that differences between the races exist, they are almost immediately branded a racist.
On that note, it’s refreshing to read the civil and indepth discussion that people are engaging in here. I have enjoyed reading all the comments, even if I don’t agree with them all.
This is a fascinating discussion.
Some of you may have heard this before: There is a school teacher in Chicago (first name is Marla, I believe) who has a private school for African-American children. These are students from underprivileged families. After proceeding through her school, these students can read, write, and otherwise run circles around most public school students today. It seems to me that if she can inspire these students in this way, that we need to find what this way is and start implementing her methods in all our schools.
In reference to IQ, I had a neighbor with an IQ of 175 who holds two doctorate degrees. He’s unemployed, brings thousands of old books home and stacks them around his house, brings home cats – once had a hundred of them. So how much does IQ really have to do with a happy, successful life?
We no longer need to debate this! All the critical thinking courageous blacks have ironically shown up right here to moot the very point!
And they all seem to be moderate to conservative – now THERE is a correlation to explore!
The test blacks fail year after year is the one given in the voting booth…
(Kudos to the black mom & dad who today grabbed their three kids, stood up, and walked out on Julian Bond’s speech endlessly spewing why Republicans are Nazis – NOW THAT’S GOOD PARENTING!)
I have an 8 year-old biracial gdaughter. She is being raised in a white environment simply because that is who we are, this is where we live and her black father has been out of the picture (a woman beater) since she was born. She is nurtured and loved to pieces. When she was born, the nurse examined her and labeled her a “10″ by whatever that score is they use for the health and alertness of newborns. She’s been a 10 ever since in my book. I’ve never once worried about her intellect and judging by her report card, I have no reason to worry. I think the most important thing is that she is raised in a loving Christian family, she has a healthy environment and we have good schools. Had this been 50 years ago…oh my. 50 years hence, do you really believe our descendants will be having this type of conversation?
02 02 06
LaShawn: Another MAJOR issue is how anthropologists even define race. They are teaching kids in college now that race is a taxonomy and nothing more. That a German and a Housa share the same Rh factor, so alleged races don’t exist. I don’t know if I agree with that, but it does beg the question of how a definition of race fits in with the cognitive differences. But again, I DO think that intelligence cannot be adequately measured by many of the standard IQ tests because they cannot test what some call “multiple intelligences”. I know some people who are geniuses in music composition and theory and never did well on those tests. Also frame of refernce matters, like in the case of the Amazonians. I don’t think they have any less of a capacity to learn than anyone else, but their frame of reference is totally different than ours.
LaShawn: I’m just an average white woman with an average IQ. You could run circles around me in the intelligence department. I’m sorry but I don’t buy that whites are more intelligent than blacks. I think it has everything to do with how a child is nurtured.
On a different topic, but here is a great article about why we are nearing major advancements in energy technology.
http://futurist.typepad.com/
Thanks for confronting this issue, Ms. Barber. The posts I’ve read are among the best ever, and reflect the insightful thinking of the readers.
I’m a career militar officer (been wearing a uniform since 1969). I’ve served with people of all races, and have noticed that the determinants of success are the same for all:
1. An expectation of success, usually originating with the home life.
2. An unwillingness to accept failure, and a corresponding willingness to accept a less-than-favorable first outcome as a teaching experience that will lead to success the next time.
3. Exposure to a broad variety of life experiences that shape one’s ability to evaluate information, correlate these stimuli, and harness these experiences to produce consistently desirable (personal and professional) outcomes. In other words, the ability to learn from mistakes.
4. The ability to consistently perform a dispassionate self-critique, identify destructive behaviors, and rid oneself of them. Equally important, they can identify productive behaviors and implement a plan to reinforce those behaviors.
5. A conviction that they were designed for success, not failure.
Interestingly, Christians were more often successful than not. I attribute this to the positive self-image that faith in Christ nurtures in the redeemed person. Why?…I suspect that just having an abiding faith that your Creator loved you enough to die to redeem you implicitly teaches you that you do indeed have great worth. The first step on the road to success is knowing that Someone cares for you.
I would be interested to see a horizontal, rather than a vertical, slicing of the analysis. I believe, after nearly forty years of observation, that people exposed to a broad range of socialization experiences, who are consequently compelled to construct a coherent worldview from often conflicting experiences, prompts development of the character and general intelligence traits that fuel achievement. People (white, black, brown, yellow) who live their lives in a comparatively narrow range of experiences lack many of the fundamental tools to function outside their ken. They also lack the ability to identify behavior patterns that breed success.
Finally, standardized tests may or may not be reliable indicators of “intelligence.” However, they are extremely accurate diagnostic indicators of whether or not a person has the necessary tools in the kitbag that will enable them to succeed in college. We’ve all seen overachieving mediocrities who never accepted others’ evaluations of their abilities, and likewise the lazy savants who scored well on tests, but never amounted to much. These are often touted as disproving the value of standardized tests…I think they’re the exceptions that prove the rule.
The factors I listed above are what I’ve observed to be the key determinants of success. Winston Churchill said it best when he told an audience at Oxford that the key to success was
“Never, Never, Never, Never, Never…Give up!”
Thanks for a wonderful topic.
Hektor
A few disparate threads of thought:
1) II Tim 2:15: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
a) study what, where, when, how?
b) what is truth?
methinks the word of truth is not limited to spiritual matters, but the physical realm as well, whther that translates to wisdom, cognitive perception or just plain knowledge.
2) Juxtapose Dr. Benjamin Carson’s background as noted above with that of Albert Einstein, born of a prostitute, yet grappled with deep & abstract theories that baffled many a ‘learned’ scientist by simply summing it up as E=MC2, while working as a patent office clerk. Contrast that with another Jewish ‘thinker’, Karl Marx and his rebellious and often juvenile relations with his family and peers and the resulting opus that only ensured millions would be enslaved & oppressed.
3) If baby boys are showered with testatrones in the womb, what else might they and their sisters be showered with? And once out of the womb, what else is chemically at work in their little minds? Anxiety, insecurity, pessimism, stress inducing hormones, depending on the mental & emotional state of the parents during pregnancy & after? On the flip side, can a sense of optimism, inquisitiveness & artistic creativity be injected during those early stages? Sort of gives new meaning to “sins/blessings of the parents passed on to the seed”.
Unless I’m mistaken, I believe there were some studies on twins that, barring illness or defects, twins tend to track the same on IQ even though they may be totally opposite in character, or indeed separated since birth.
What do I know? What is apparent to me is that my 1st two kids walked and talked by age one and the last two arrived at those significant milestones at a somewhat leisurely, if extended, pace. The only real environemental difference I can point to is that I was home & active everyday with the former, and far away at work 90% of the time with the latter.
Intelligence-wise, they all seem on par, but there’s something different when it comes to that level of savoir-faire, self-confidence & trust.
Ciao
mahndisa – Race is a taxonomy and nothing more. It is a man made system of classification for people of different cultures and skin tones. Beyond that we all are very much the same.
That is why schools have to teach it that way. Because it’s the truth. Our true differences can only been seen when unraveling our genetic code, to discover the minute difference that makes what we call a Black person Black and a White person White.
dianne – Keep up the good work. Love is exactly what your child needs. You see she’s doing well in school, plus you have a Christian home. You’ve got her on the right path.
The reason Dianne can successfully raise a child of a different race from herself is the same reason Blacks were able to raise White’s children once upon a time. Because we all are very much the same. With internal differences so small it’s really a shame it’s had to become such an issue. But man has made it an issue, so here we are.
I think this is over-analyzed.
If I were a fly on the wall of houses where a) successful students live vs. b) failing students live, I’m pretty sure a pattern would appear. The good students’ homes would find parents that read and have a respect for learning. The poor students’ homes would find parents that may read People Magazine and watch a lot of TV and generally don’t care about their children’s education.
It’s pretty simple. The parents set the bar by the way they live. The children follow. And think about it. This environment starts from the moment the child is born.
I don’t think it’s that much about racial differences.
I once read s shortened version of an individuals PHD thesis. He decided to do a paper on why Asian children do so well in school, expecting to find differences in culture or religion. What he found was that the families he was tracking were merely doing the things we know we should be doing with our children. Things such as have an adult home when the kids get home from school . . . let the kids have a break and then get started on homework in a central part of the house with access to an adult (dining room or kitchen table), talk about how we are doing at a meal where the family is together. Teach manners and a work ethic to your children. In the state of the US today we do not have enough data to make statements about race IQ because there are so many things that affect scores and grades that we are unable to identify on a scale that is large enough to be useful. Black individuals from other nations seem to carry less of an attitude than americans. Are there difference between the sub races of mankind? There may be but we do not have enough unbiased data to make broad statements. More important to my mind is the fact that we are made in Gods image. I don’t believe that God has made a inferior race. If we could see who we really are we would realize that we are actual children of our Heavenly Father. Instead of working to find things that push us apart we should look for those things we have in common. What we often call IQ may largely show who does well on a test, almost any test. In a state institution in Indiana where I worked in the local school I remember being impressed by the wisdom of an older man. Out of curiosity I looked up his IQ. Our records showed him with an IQ of 60. How to tell how smart he really was I do not know, but frankly I was quite impressed by him. When I first read some blogs on La Shawn’s corner I though I was reading some impressive work by a black man. I was wrong, I was reading some impressive work by a black lady. Should I be more impressed or less? The only important thing I saw was the quality of the postings by another one of Heavenly Fathers children. Its something neat to be able to just appreciate how well something is done and thought out rather than being overly (and wrongfully) impressed by the way someone looks. I sure wish we could get over judging by outward appearances so quickly, even when we know it is counter productive or worse.
Mahndisa #58,
good points. That is why I have a problem with designating people as another “race” just because of slight differences in appearance, however real. If we hold the classification “Human race” to be valid, then any other classification of race with regard to humanity would by necessity be a sub-categorization of humanity.
This I think is where the term “Ethnic group” takes precedence.
I was a member of Mensa for many years; I’ve taken a variety of intelligence tests. One thing I’m sure of: one can be taught to do well on an intelligence test. I’ve seen it done too many times to doubt it. A fairly large segment of the publishing industry is devoted to teaching people how to do better on such tests.
No doubt that inherent ability is a factor in testing, but so is learned skill–and the boundary lines between the two are so extraordinarily different to draw that all attempts to do so will likely ultimately prove unsuccessful.
I come from a family with roots from the Carolina’s, Maryland and eventually Colorado. My parents never went to college, but my father and mother both taught us that we did not need a test score to prove how intelligent we were. They taught us that knowledge is something that is free and can be obtained by anyone if they “make the effort themselves” to obtain it. So we were always raised to be proud of our culture, be open to learn about other cultures and strive to be the best we could be in school as well as life.
I went to a Community College and completed a degree in Visual Communications. After graduating I worked in Denver for years as a designer. I moved from design to computer programming by listening to others with experience and studying on my own. In the same manner I took up learning Japanese. 10years later I speak and read Japanese fluently and have lived in Japan for 4years teaching english in elementary schools.
My basic point is I feel that test scores can miss the point that a person who has the desire to be something better can overcome almost any obstacle.
I hope the black community moves in this direction. No testing system, Affirmative action or abolishment of such will solve our problems. We need to instill in each of us that regardless of what people say we can’t do or can not become we control our own destiny.
Regards,
Rodney T Little
The exact hoped for outcome of Lashawn’s discussion is unclear. We can all discuss the issue but Lashawn has not added much context. It is a bit too easy to say there are differences, let’s discuss. One can ask why? Do we really need to rehash the Bell Curve wars a decade later on? What’s the point? Typically you get charges and counter-charges of “self-hate” or “racism” which little light shed on the subject. For some it confirms stereotypes. For others it is evil to bring up the subject. It’s all so boilerplate. On this side, and on that side… Where is the middle ground? Where is the data? Data needs to be laid on the table to add context, and indeed to support the case for IQ testing which many liberals seem to oppose for fear of “hurting” blacks.
. Any serious discussion of race and IQ must confront conservative Thomas Sowell’s data challenging assorted myths and claims. Few add context better than Sowell, who has written entire books on the subject, and carved out his own position hammering both liberal and conservative views. Some of these and my suggestions springing there from may help to add some needed context. Who knows, they may bolster LaShawn’s case for rehashing the issue. These items are shown below:
1) Everybody likes to point the finger at blacks, but in fact, white people themselves are ALSO outscored on more abstract cognitive measures such as mathematics by Asians. In fact, Bell Curve author Murray and Hernstein put general Asian IQ at a number of points HIGHER than white IQ. Sowell hisself looked at the controversial “Bell Curve” IQ scores and was not at all bothered by the statistical fact of higher white scores, a trend going back for decades. What is interesting however is that comparatively little controversy seems to spring up as regards Asian versus White IQ comparisons.
2) Some see low black scores as an inevitable trend of things, but in fact, at certain times, and certain places, black folks OUTSCORED white people on general intelligence tests, or in general educational performance, and they did this back in the Jim Crow era. For example, as far back as the First World War, black soldiers from northern states, places like New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and Ohio scored HIGHER on mental tests than white soldiers from southern regions like Georgia, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Mississippi. All black PUBLIC schools like Dunbar High in Washington DC consistently produced test scores for decades above, or equal to the average of more affluent surrounding white schools.
3) Some see blacks as these unique sad-sack cases where intelligence is concerned, but in fact WHITE ethnic groups also have showed a pattern of low IQ scores, raising them over time. Blacks have done the same. Assorted white ethnic groups like Poles, Italians and even Jews posted dismal IQ scores in years past. Over time however, as socio-economic conditions improved, their scores rose. The case of Black soldiers has already been noted, but the same pattern of improvement over time has been shown by blacks.
4) Black progress has been hidden by the practice of “norming” IQ scores, concealing gains over time. In other words what would have been an average IQ score of 100 in 1960 has been defined up, so that by 1985 anyone making the 1960 score would be classified as being “below average”. This is the so-called Flynn effect. As Thomas Sowell points out, it is the “norming” of IQ tests from their earlier baselines so that increases are reshuffled to yield a “normal average” of 100, that has concealed black progress. When progress is measured from the original baselines, in fact, whole nations have experienced rising IQs, undermining the assumptions of so called black IQ “decline”.
To quote Sowell: “In other words, black Americans’ test score results in 1995 would have given them an average IQ just over 100 in 1945. Only the repeated renorming of IQ tests upward created the illusion that blacks had made no progress, but were stuck at an IQ of 85. But we would never have known this if some researchers had not defied the taboo on studying race and IQ imposed by black “leaders” and white “friends.”
5) Some theorize that “white blood” is the key factor that has raised black IQ scores when in fact it is blacks with LESSER percentages of white blood that are over represented among the high performers. Persons of African (continental) and Caribbean ancestry are over represented among the “black brainiacs”. In other words, populations with typically LESS white genes, compared to the general US black, dominate the “brainacs” undermining the “white blood” theory.
6) Those who try to “help” blacks by avoiding discussion or research on IQ may in fact be hurting blacks. IQ tests allow weaknesses to be pinpointed among school children such as in math, so extra help can be targeted to them. This is all the more critical with black youth, for on a subject like math, which builds heavily on material covered before, getting black kids that early help may be crucial. Tests also are fairly good general (not perfect) predictors of future performance. All the more reason for even MORE testing early on to get black kids the help they need. Research on IQ has also revealed the Flynn effect, that conceals black IQ gains over time. Those IQ gains undermine racist theories that black intelligence is “stagnant” or “declining” and also show that WHITE people also underwent similar low to high IQ score progression. Blacks thus are not these unique, basket cases that assorted racists love to portray. If as some claim, IQ is decisive, then Asians must be given pride of place for they demonstrate consistent IQ superiority over white people. Various racists however are not rushing to publicize that fact.
See Sowell’s data and discussion:
renorming: http://www.CapMag.com/article.asp?ID=1958
the “Bell Curve” review: http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/Issues/bell-curve/sowell.html
Individual freedom and opportunity. That’s what this is all about. Let’s say that the Black curve is shifted to an lesser IQ then the White curve. Let’s suppose its all genetic and that’s that. So what? Let each person strive to achieve as best his G-d given gifts and inclinations allow and direct him. And let him thank G-d for all the good He bestowed on him. And be happy for the good he has. And lock anyone who wants to make “social policy” away in a dungeon. End of story.
Matt,
Race is very much a part of Darwin’s “Origin of Species”. Most do not realize the “Origin of Species” is the abbreviated title of Darwin’s book.
Great article on Darwin
I also disagree that the subject of the original post is taboo. Growing up I was taught that I had to be 10 times better academically (and I discovered for myself athletically) than my white friends just to be considered as good. At first, I did not believe this to quite be the case. I thought it was the area, individual, schools, etc..etc. Although it wasn’t articulated to me back then, and though whites may not talk about it openly today, I believe there is a superiority complex. And even though it may not be discussed openly, these assumptions are acted out and experienced everyday.
Yes, blacks should score higher on test scores and do better in academia than they are doing now.
But I wish that there was someway to also make everyone believe that all races are indeed all created equal. Who knows, maybe being looked upon as being less intelligent is a factor in the results of the low test scores.
It should make no difference if my mom comes from either Japan or the Congo, though the latter is correct. That is merely a piece of data, information is worth much more than isolated bits of data.
Thomas Sowell is a splendid example of what a man can become. Since he can express things more clearly and concisely than I can, I recommend
Townhall.com : click on all columnists : Scroll down to Thomas Sowell and see if he thinks there are differences of intellect between the races. It will take a bit of searching but what a wealth of knowledge and wisdom you will have searched through.
Another site with a good quality of information is
issues-views.com : click on Education/choice, but once you have discovered this site you will want explore all of the rest of its offerings as well.
Enjoyed post 61 on this thread, as well as many others, but had not read all of the posts yet before posting earlier. Would like to thank you all for the quality of your thoughts.
I’ll throw up three issues: black culture, testing disparity, and parenting
Black Culture
Because race is nothing more than a taxonomy, when we are talking about black people and achievement disparity its ultimately a discussion about not just people who appear black but are also culturally black. I would disagree that you could actually pinpoint black culture as the culprit though. Growing up around a lot of jack and jill kids who’s parents were cosby types (doctors and lawyers) all their kids dressed like the rappers you see on tv, spoke improper english around their friends, drank, smoked, whatever. They also scored in the top 90th percentile on their SATs, went to top tier schools and have had succesful business careers. Plus, in america black culture is so infused with mainstream culture that to make the argument that black culture has a negative affect, you would have to see it among other ethnic groups as well. Same situation that I saw with rich educated black kids is the one that I see with rich educated white kids: you can have namebrand jeans having off your butt, go to the club every weekend, listen to rap all day and still go get a 1500 on the SAT.
Testing Disparity
I think there’s an interesting correlation to what the research of claude steele, Thomas Sowell, and Roland Fryer say about this issue. Steele argues that stereotype threat is in fact very real phenomenom. Sowell argues that in pre civil rights movement america, blacks performed at level as high or higher than whites in predominately black schools. Fryer says that the negative affects of acting white exist in racially integrated schools, but not so much in predominately black schools. I say all that to say that all things being equal, not having the stereotype of inferiority, or, having the freedom to perform as an individual and not the representative of your whole group makes a difference. In the pre civil rights era, blacks went from predominately black high schools to predominately black colleges, always staying in an atmosphere insulated from racial bias; If you failed to achieve, it wasn’t because you were black, everyone was black. The support network was there with people who all wanted you to achieve and do your best. In post civil rights america with more and more black students going to integrated schools, stereotypes run amuk. black students (especially black boys) are disproportionately tracked into special ed classes. blacks and whites are not only more aware of existing racial stereotypes but now all eyes are on the black kid not to let down the whole race. The freedom to be an individual is gone in this situation; one is being defined as black at all times with all the different stereotypes that engenders
Parenting
As everyone knows, there is no blueprint to parenting and how to raise a child to be a good citizen. Case in point, I have a lot of friends who grew up in stable two parent homes where both parents made good money, made sure everyone went to church on sunday, all at dinner together, what have you. The thing is that despite their middle class income, neither of the parents were college educated. In these houses no one is talking about what is going on in the paper at breakfast. No bookshelves in the living room, no trips to museum or the zoo. At the end of the day, kids coming out of these houses aren’t gonna do as well on the tests that measure verbal ability as the kids who have college educated parents. In the latter, the kids will be immersed in intellectual discourse at an early age and be able to comprehend the stuff on the SATs as second nature. A lot of black kids in america are coming out of the first households with middle class incomes but not what we define in america as middle class values.
La Shawn, I used to work in an inner city school in San Diego with a program called AVID (Achievement Via Individual Determination). We hand selected kids who had potential (we knew they were “smart” but they didn’t have the support to make it). 95% of the kids in my classes were black. But in this class (ie: nurturing support), 95% of those kids went from D’s and F’s in 1 semester – I kid you not. The design of the program is to equip them to handle AP classes and go on to college. It is very successful and I loved every minute of it. I KNOW those kids weren’t struggling because of lack of intelligence – it was total lack of support from their families. I and my tutors became what they needed – accountability to take notes, do their homewhork, hand it in, study for tests. It’s not rocket science to master the educational system. The g factor may be a reality somewhere, I don’t know, it certainly wasn’t noticeble with these kids – but I don’t think that’s what it takes to make it well in our culture anyway. There are plenty of people of all races who are smart as whips who lead failure-ridden lives.
http://www.sdcoe.net/lret/avid/welcome.asp?loc=home
That should have said went from D’s and F’s to A’s and B’s in 1 semester – I kid you not. (where’s my coffee?)
Very interesting post, Lashawn!
In the late 1960’s, I was a naval officer programs recruiter in the Midwest. The navy had a long history of discrimination, and black officer candidate possibilities were reluctant to even approach us.
When they did, their test scores on the Officer Qualification Test(for non-aviation candidates) and the Aviation Officer Qualification Test(for aviation candidates) quickly excluded them.
Remember, we’re dealing with the screening tests in use at that time.(1969)
I had an exceptionally qualified black candidate approach me at an Ohio university. He was a halfback on the college football team, was a math major with a 3.3 GPA(in the days before grade inflation), and he had lived all over the world, because his father was in the diplomatic service. He had excellent vision, which probably disqualified more pilot candidates then any other factor at that time. He wanted to be a navy pilot.
My job was to recruit qualified candidates, and he was certainly qualified on initial screening. He took the AQT, and scored exceptionally low in one area for pilot training. This was the biographical inventory portion of the test. However, I processed him, and with quite a few chosen words in my recommendation, got him into the navy.
As a result of his test scores, I did some research on the test, and found the biographical inventory portion of the test was based on a navy study done during WWII, the 1000 aviator study, which had asked the bio inv questions of student pilots during their training. They then took the answers of 1000 pilot graduates and made those the correct answers on the bio inv test.
Since these 1000 pilots were white, college students, if not college graduates, the results were terribly skewed. I looked at the questions on the test, and found, to my amazement, that if, for example, you knew the correct answer to the author of ‘The Scarlet Letter’, and ‘Crossing the Bar’, your score would go down. Conversely, if you liked to ride motorcycles, your score would improve.
I brought this up at a national recruiting conference, one of the major subjects being our difficulty in recruiting minority applicants, and found my difficulties with this portion of the test and minority recruiting to be the rule, rather than the exception. The navy decided to de-emphasize that portion of the test, which had previously been seen as a make-break for pilot candidates.
Tests measuring any supposed human skill outside verbal, reasoning, math aptitude, etc., are frequently guilty of being unintentionally biased. The navy biographical inventory test of that era excluded a lot of pilot candidates, based on an extremely biased sample’s success or failure and their answers to the questions.
I am white, was born in 1939, grew up in a very poor rural southern environment where I excelled in what we had for school in the area. My university grades were average, even though I tested as gifted. My children and grandchildren are also gifted. Their school success ranges from outstanding to barely above average.
I think way too much emphasis is placed on general tests. Aptitude tests should be more closely oriented to job requirements, physical requirements likewise. A 100 pound female fireman doesn’t make sense. Neither does a pilot candidate who fails the math section on a test.
Aptitude test construction, administration and interpretation has been a growth industry in this country for the past 50 plus years. It stems from the mistaken impression that a human being’s success or failure at any endeavor can be measured. What is measured is the basic knowledge and ability of the individual to take the test.
Any test that purports to measure anything other than the current ability of the individual is flawed in its concept.
I look forward with interest to the next two installments in your series.
“Sorry to burst your bubble, but general intelligence isn’t some amorphous, hard-to-define concept floating out there in the ether. It is indeed a “thing†that can be measured. Nature or nurture? Does it matter? How much?”
Due respect, but that’s simply not true.
You can measure some thing with a test, and you can choose to call that thing “intelligence”, but there will always be wide disagreement about whether or not the thing you’ve measured actually IS “intelligence”.
I don’t think this necessarily undermines any points you are making (or will make), but it just puts it all in the proper perspective.
There is an informative chapter on the positive and negative roles that parenting plays in childhood development, measured in terms of PTA involvement, hours spent watching t.v., education level of parents, number of parents, Head Start, age at which mother was when first a mother, moving to suburbia, and years between having first and second child, in the book “Freakonomics”. The data does not tell the story many would expect.
Standardized tests illustrate that children in lower socio-economic brackets, and underperfroming schools, generally score lower than their counterparts in higher income brackets and high-performing schools- across “racial” lines. A Boston human rights activist collected data on this in 1964, and the urban public schools in Charlestown, Hyde Park and South Boston (then 100% white) produced no more collegians than those of Roxbury. (so why all the busing of Black kids to those exact three high schools in 1974 and ‘75)?
Re: #71 Thanks SLE, that is an interesting link. I’ll print it out so I can read the rest.
As a matter of clarification, I had meant Darwinism as it is applied today. There is no question that much of what Darwin said has been both sanitized and also petrified into doctrine. I hope it came across that I was pointing out the logical flaws of an approach to this discussion that is simply biological. I certainly don’t believe that there is any such difference.
Now I really feel nervous and embarrassed.
Which only reinforces what a lot of you have said about this subject being demonized, thus preventing real solutions being found.
ROB sez:
I would disagree that you could actually pinpoint black culture as the culprit though. Growing up around a lot of jack and jill kids who’s parents were cosby types (doctors and lawyers) all their kids dressed like the rappers you see on tv, spoke improper english around their friends, drank, smoked, whatever. They also scored in the top 90th percentile on their SATs.
That may be so for a few anecdotal cases, but the actual reality on the street is a lot different for most black kids. Most of them are NOT scoring in the 90th percentile of the SAT, in fact their scores are dismally low. LaShawn, McWorther and others are right to pinpoint black culture as one of the negative factors. In fact this issue was discussed at length in Lashawn’s blog last year and the research backed up what she and McWorther are saying. See http://lashawnbarber.com/wp-comments-popup.php?p=618&c=1
ROB also sez:
Steele argues that stereotype threat is in fact very real phenomenom. Sowell argues that in pre civil rights movement america, blacks performed at level as high or higher than whites in predominately black schools. Fryer says that the negative affects of acting white exist in racially integrated schools, but not so much in predominately black schools..
Not quite accurate. Claude Steele argued the existence of stereotype threat, but his brother scholar Shelby Steele was less than impressed and held it had little significant effect on black performance. If “sterotype threat” is the problem, why is black perfomance so much more dismal in ALL BLACK schools where no white people are around to hurt “self esteem”? As to “acting white” the phenonemon is not confined to mixed schools, but appears in MOSTLY BLACK schools as well, wehre students serious about academics were criticized for “acting white”. Even the studies that attempt to dispute McWorther’s thesis, confirm the existenceof an oppositional culture among blacks to academic achievement. Some say it is stronger in advanced placement classes where there were very few blacks, but the phenomenon is there, no matter how you slice it. See the archives again: http://lashawnbarber.com/wp-comments-popup.php?p=618&c=1
As everyone knows, there is no blueprint to parenting and how to raise a child to be a good citizen. Case in point, I have a lot of friends who grew up in stable two parent homes where both parents made good money, made sure everyone went to church on sunday, all at dinner together, what have you. The thing is that despite their middle class income, neither of the were college educated. In these houses no one is talking about what is going on in the paper at breakfast. No bookshelves in the living room, no trips to museum or the zoo.
Contrary to the notion of “no blueprint” there are several good blueprints out there. This example confirms what Lashawn is saying about negative cultural elements. The black parents in your example failed to follow through. However there is an invisible class of black parents who don’t have much college education, who don’t get much press attention and who do follow through on education. There are over a million of them. They are black parents primarily from the Caribbean, specifially the West Indies. Black West Indian immigrants in general, (not all obviously) are noted for being serious and hard-nosed about education. The results confirm their appraoch. As early as 1970, their income was approaching white levels for the second generation. They have moved on since then.
This hard-nosed approach has made Black West Indians unpopular in some places, with native blacks considering them too aggressive and pushy, hence the common slur “Jew Maican”. Asian Americans have also been hard nosed about education. In the early 20th century, the kids of Japanese farmers in California, whose parents were typically poor and spoke very little English, and who did not have houses stocked with middle class books outperformed supposedly “superior” white Irish kids on several measures. Indeed the Japanese kids were the joy of their teachers, noted for their discipline and attentiveness, a sharp contrast to many of the white kids around them. See Sowell’s “Ethnic America”. Again, there are several “good blueprints” out there, for those willing to follow them.
RATNEST SEZ:
LaShawn Barber is embarking on a potentially daring project. But there’s one thing that people don’t talk much about in America: cognitive differences among the races.
Agreed, but I don’t see the point of a lot of talk per se if empirical data and context is not up front and center. If not, talk degenerates into the usual emotionalism and charges of “racism”. On the flip side, there is sometimes a smug, unspoken comfort that the finger is being pointed at blacks once again- you know, THOSE LOW IQ PEOPLE. The only data that figures here in the smugness is the test score “gap”.
But the data shows that whites themselves are hardly pace-setters when in comes to IQ. And it shows that white IQ scores themselves were dismally low in the past, improving as socio-economic conditionsimproved, just like blacks. It also shows that practices used with IQ tests disguise black progress, so that a black guy with a score of 100 in 1960 who would have been considered average, is considered a “dunce” in 2005 if he achieves the same score. LaShawn needs to add more context and data to the discussion, rather than just throwing out the statistic.
EVAN sez:
Again, American whites have lost their spines in this and a few other taboo debates (and Europeans would faint upon sight of someone even thinking such thoughts).
Also agreed, but what’s the point of a lot of debating the well known “gap” without adding data and context? And too often such debates are focused on blacks as basket-cases, with little scrutiny applied to white patterns, which are similar to the black pattern: a rise of scores over time from an initially low level. And I don’t hear a lot of white “debate” on the white-Asian gap, although everyone seems eager to pile on where black folk are concerned. Kudos to LaShawn for broaching the issue but much more data needs to be added to firm up the discussion. She could for example have mentioned the need for MORE testing of black kids to pinpoint their weaknesses and get them more help early on rather than let them drift in the name of “self-esteem”. But then again, she probably knew her blog readers would supply the details anyway.:)
La Shawn,
You have rediscovered a old dodge. Constructing non-cognitive tests to increase the number of blacks who pass them has been used before in police department hiring. Linda Gottfredson of the University of Delaware was instrumental in protesting such a test in Nassau County a decade ago.
See:
http://www.ipmaac.org/nassau/gottfredson3.html
I know. I’m linking to her testimony in the next post. – Admin
La Shawn,
Mr. Cordova (post 69) wrote:
“All black PUBLIC schools like Dunbar High in Washington DC consistently produced test scores for decades above, or equal to the average of more affluent surrounding white schools.”
Tom Sowell uses this example. I looked this up. In approximately 1899, black Dunbar high school did indeed score higher than any of the several DC white high schools on a history test. However, the same year it was at the bottom in Math. The above information (from memory) was published in a US Government Document. I’m skeptical about the consistency claim.
I believe the line of thinking and overall tone of the discussion and the discussion in itself is very dangerous to the black community. It is especially dangerous to include whites in this discussion. It is dangerous because we are at a low place where the assertion of possible genetic intellectual inferiority has contributed to our decline. We are not genetically inferior to whites, we have become culturally inferior to everyone.
I believe white people in general hold a conscious or sub-conscious belief that they are “genetically” superior to black people. Generally speaking.
And why not? Every indication would deem it truth.
I also believe that this “genetic” inferiority has become the basis for black victim hood culture worldwide. This culture is the direct result of white guilt for the above feelings.
Slavery and colonialism of black peoples and lands were justified by the opinion that blacks were mentally incapable of taking care of themselves. We were being helped and socially advanced by whites that saw us as completely helpless beings. Whites needed to take us under their wings because we had the mental capacity of a cow or ,at most, that of a child. And if we did not fit into this ideal for some reason, it was explain by the amount of white blood in us.
This is the original “White Guilt”
Those currently suffering from white guilt do not have these feelings because they think we have suffered so much. They feel guilty because inside themselves they still hold the view that we are inferior to them. They battle with these views inside themselves and need a way to relieve this guilt. Therefore, in deluding themselves and those around them that they are helping us, they have helped create a worldwide epidemic of black permanent victim hood.
Africa and its peoples have been ravaged by colonialism, greed, and corruption. But instead of helping to promote recovery and self-sufficiency so that Africa does not find itself again in such a weak position, they throw money at the continent or demand other people do it. Instead of holding black leaders and blacks in general to task in recovering and becoming self-sufficient, they throw money at us and demand we are given special treatment.
It is like that poor bum you see on the sidewalk begging. You don’t really want to give him your money, you probably think he is just a drunk, but passing him by makes you feel guilty. So instead of directing him to a shelter, finding out why he found himself in that position and maybe offer advice, you hold your nose and throw him some change. And you are released of your guilt.
White guilters, White Liberals and the phoney black leaders (that keep blacks in victim hood so they can retain power over us) don’t view blacks as being just as capable as anyone else , they believe that we are incapable. They hold the same views as our original white enslavers. They hold us in mental slavery. So the only option for black people, to them, is that of charity. And we as blacks have become used to this charity. We expect it, we demand it, and nothing else is acceptable. And we especially know that because of white guilt we can get something for nothing. Its called the race card. But in all of us, we failed to realize that we have fulfilled the truths those original whites oppressors put upon us the moment they stepped foot on our soil.
(excuse my genetically inferior grammar)
Looking through this thread I didn’t see any mention of a recent controversy over a study that claimed Ashkenazi Jews were smarter than other Europeans. The main concern in the article that I read was that there was no outrage expressed at over the findings of this study as there was in a similar study done in 1994 that claimed that whites were smarter than blacks. The Ashkenazi Jew study tried to link the fact that these people over the years has been involved in occupations such as banking that developed the genes favoring cleverness, etc. I’m sorry I don’t have a link and that I can’t remember the whole article – I have some cognitive impairment due to a neurological disorder and have actual lost some IQ points!
I am a rather humble person and never liked the idea of IQ or aptitude tests. In fact, I sabotaged one such test in high school and ended up with a terrible score that made the administrators at my school scratch their heads and squirm in their seats. Somehow word got out that I had intentionally tried to get as low a score as possible and after being yelled at by the Dean of Boys and the Headmaster, I was made to re-take the test. Even my football coach got in on the act and informed me that what I did took MORE intelligence than most because first I had to know the RIGHT answers in order to get the WRONG answers! I didn’t bother to tell him that CHANCE was on my side to get the WRONG answers.
I really don’t know how you measure intelligence. The late Leo Buscaglia said “Some of the dumbest people I know are PhD’s.” And how do you reconcile it when someone who you know to be highly intelligent takes up a destructive habit like smoking, or declares that God is a myth? Does it make me stupid to believe that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of all knowledge?
Breathtaking, Zakia.
La Shawn, I find it interesting to observe that this is considered an entirely “black” and “white” issue. I am a junior in a private high school that is considered the best in my region and I am half-Chinese. I am also extremely bored. Instead of solely discussing how the government makes things easier for Africans, perhaps you should also discuss how things are so elementary that they hurt Orientals.
I failed elementary school with flying colors, I some how got accepted into honor program at the top high school in my region and I have repeatedly made the honor every marking period since the first one in freshmen year. Despite things being at a higher level, I am still bored. When I was settling into high school, my grades rallied well above the requirements for the honor roll and since then they have been tapering off.
I am no longer paying attention in class. I see no reason to pay attention. I am taking American History for the third time and I have lost count of all of the times I have taken Algebra; Chemistry simply bores me, and there is no point in caring about anything else if my favorite subjects are complete jokes. Computer class is also one of my favorites but I will not get started there. In Algebra II/Trigonometry (although I fail to find any semblance of trigonometry in that class thus far), I could be teaching the class. I already know all of the content and I almost exclusively lose points for failing to write out work for questions that are so elementary that only an answer should be required. American History has traditionally been a strong subject for me but come on now, three times? I could have used the extra detail four years ago when I still cared enough to pay attention. While I have never taken Chemistry class before, the level that it is being taught at is an insult. I am reading Dr. Linus Paulings’ book, The Nature of the Chemical Bond and I understand everything that I have read so far. In chemistry class, I am forced to learn trivia (e.g. where the first atomic bomb was exploded by Oppenheimer) and trivial concepts.
I have tried to leave for a college but no college will accept me without having put a certain amount of time into high school. That is essentially is all that high school is, a place that spends your time for you; no thinking required. If high school required any thought, we would be being forced to think of ways to solve problems and derive formulas in math class instead of being handed formulas and procedures.
The sad part is that despite me having done everything 3-5 times, I will have to do it all over again in the first two years of college. People only need to teach these concepts once yet they teach them repeatedly at increasing difficulty levels as if they were trying to train monkeys. The sheer repetition and simplicity hurts Orientals, and I really would like it if people talked about how the school system hurts Orientals instead solely of how the school system “helps whites” and “hurts blacks.”
Dude, get your GED and go to a community college, or just start taking CC classes.
College is not easy, by the way, its as hard as you want to make it. Don’t worry.
Thank God Richard isn’t full blood Chinese. He’d have been downright suicidal in the fourth grade!
But I visit this thread a third time not to console Richard, but to make sure Zakia’s neurotic post gets politely rebutted before anyone else labels it as “breathtaking”.
Zakia, first off, I DO NOT feel a life altering personal guilt about the plight of the 21st century Black American. Nor, I suspect, do two thirds of the white electorate (AKA racist Republicans). We would like nothing more than to burst forth from the bondage of OUR oppressor – the race card. And our desire for this freedom isn’t so we can dust off and don the sheets we all keep hidden in our attics, then attempt to re-enslave 40 million American Blacks. We all need to end this BS so 300 million Americans don’t become economically enslaved by 3 billion Asians.
(Or about 5 or 6 other grim scenarios that are helped along by the racial divide in the US).
As for the wobbly third of the white electorate (AKA guilty Democrats) to whom you refer and despise for their inner feelings – how in the hell do you ever expect them to get over the guilt of white colonialism and oppression when you constantly beat them over the head with – white colonialism and oppression!
Colonialism, like race and intellect, is a topic on which there is too little rational debate. How can blacks and whites ever have a talk about anything, let alone something as provocative as the the recent topic LaShawn has suggested, if long dead Portuguese in wooden ships keep sailing to the front discussion? Colonialism was a wash in my opinion: Among other things, Africa would most likely be 100% Muslim today if not for the divine intervention of the British Army and the English missionary, et al.
Besides, after fighting off the Golden Horde from Asia, Turning the Persians away from the gates of Vienna and Defeating the brutal African Moorish occupation of the Iberian Peninsula – Europeans figured the world was cool with imperial expansionism.
If anything, insofar as intellect is concerned, colonialism probably furthered the general g of the civilizations it touched. The British left India in 1947. The Indians could easily have decided then to take off their suits, stop speaking English, and return to their traditional system of governance and adjudication. Instead, they voluntarily decided to continue doing many things that were previously imposed on them by the Brits. This, to me, is evidence that the Indians, through their actions, testify to the benefits brought to India by colonialism. (DD)
The part of your post where I thought maybe you were just pulling my leg was when you stated, “they (white folks) throw money at(Africa) or demand other people do it. Instead of holding black leaders and blacks in general to task in recovering and becoming self-sufficient, they throw money at us and demand we are given special treatment.” Maybe Southwest Airlines could use that statement in one of their “wanna get away” commercials.
Anyway, as you charged, it’s “dangerous” for a 5′9″ twenty something prematurely balding white father like myself to be allowed to engage in such blasphemous dialog with other Blacks. So I’d better just shut up and know my place.
(Sorry LaShawn, but I believe I had no choice but to leave the pen in order to rope the discussion back in line.)
Commenting is closed on this post. See Part II, Intelligence: Some Research.
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