La Shawn Barber
02.24.06

studentUpdate (2:00 p.m.): Visit these homeschool bloggers (and check out their sidebars for more blogs and resources):

Spunky Homeschool
Spunky Jr. (homeschooled kid)
Victoria Carrington
Jones Blog
Biblical Womanhood
HomeSchoolBlogger directory
Agent Tim (Adorable homeschooled kid - I had no idea he was a teenager until he told me. Hadn’t seen the pic.)
The Rebelution (homeschooled twins)
The Homeschooling Revolution
Homeschooling Helper
Why Homeschool
Dr. Helen (I don’t know if Instapundit’s wife is a homeschooler, but she linked to the gifted story, and some of the comments are must-reads.)
Homeschool FAQ (Answers “Why? and “How?,” and includes links to various homeschool methods.)
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Because too few black students are enrolling in magnet school programs for the gifted, “educators” in Montgomery County, Maryland, decided to experiment “with new ways to reach out to students who might have special abilities but may not have been recognized through traditional screening methods.” (Source)

In other words, they’ve decided to dumb down the programs for diversity, which almost always means “black.”

These stories are a dime a dozen, aren’t they? I long to read one where students of all colors are held to the same standards, and black students are pushed to compete at top levels instead of “educators” redefining top levels and dragging down standards for everybody. Who does this actually help?

Being gifted is not a bad thing, but in politically correct America, it’s close to it. Finding ways to improve student performance, getting parents involved and holding them accountable must be too taxing for government schools, so government schools are doing what’s best for themselves. Dumbing down curricula is standard operating procedure.

This is supposed to be enlightened and progressive:

We’ve changed from labeling children to labeling services,” Horn said. “It’s not whether you’re gifted, it’s what’s appropriate for you.”

Awwwwwww…

In other local race-based news, Prince George’s County, Maryland, has hired a white man to “superintend” the majority-black school systems. The horror! This is what the black school board chairman said:

Let me tell you, this was an agonizing decision for me. We’ve had three black school superintendents who didn’t work out, and I sure didn’t want to leave black people and especially black students with the impression that a black can’t lead…Did I want to turn this system over to a white man? Not if I’d had my druthers. But after looking at all of the candidates, this was the best guy to lead the system, raise the test scores and get our kids the best education possible. (Emphases added)

The best person to lead the system? What a revolutionary idea!

The “white man” is John E. Deasy. No matter what his credentials, he can’t do any worse for Prince George’s County schools than others have done.

Black conservatives aren’t the only ones publicly criticizing negative aspects of the “black community” and black-run government entities. The black and liberal Courtland Milloy in his high-profile Washington Post column (Wish I had one!) airs some dirty laundry:

But neither he [Jack B. Johnson, black PG County Executive] nor the rest of the county’s black middle class wants to talk publicly about the embarrassing spectacle of black school leaders getting caught up in catfights and scandals. Now, with a white man in charge, they won’t have to. And low-income blacks, who have long felt abandoned by their more affluent neighbors, get to root for a Great White Hope.

I think the infighting and bickering is funny, although I do feel sorry for the kids caught up in this ridiculous race-based tripe. What do they care about politics? They should be receiving the best education possible, one that will allow them to compete in society. That comes only through a traditional curriculum which has nothing to do with raising their self-esteem or making sure teachers and principals “look like them.”

Whatever worked for these three men and countless other people should be bottled. I guarantee you won’t find embarrassingly silly afrocentric classes, concern about white v. black superintendents, or demands for watered-down curricula as part of their excellent achievements.

Another generation of black kids have to settle for an inferior education, which will increase the need for race-based programs so they won’t be totally left behind the rest. The cycle will continue until parents decide, en masse, that their children’s academic preparation trumps politics.

If you’re a black parent with a child in a gifted program or one who’s excelling in challenging classes, I’d love to hear from you. If you want to remain private, e-mail me.

Blogger Christine says:

As you say, this sort of “dumbing down” doesn’t help anybody, whether based on “race” considerations or “Self-esteem” considerations. Part of the reason I didn’t get on well with the educational world is my steadfast belief that self-esteem doesn’t not come from a pat on the head, it comes from accomplishment, from being able to say “It was hard, but look! I did that!”

Exactly. You don’t get high self-esteem from someone stroking your ego or telling you lies about your ancestors. You get it by performing. That requires effort.

Bloggers: Joanne Jacobs, Discriminations, Oh, That Liberal Media

(Washington Post photo)

Related posts:

Addendum: I’m still working on Part III of the Intelligence series. Paying opportunities keep getting in the way! While you wait, read The Last Taboo (Part I) and Some Research (Part II).

Update II: Commenter Eric Brown wrote:

As a father of two young black men (8 and 4, who are reading and writing above grade level), I find it very condecending to find that the MCPS has done this. I moved out of MoCo, MD a few years ago because the place was just too PC. Go take a look at any school or public library. You won’t find very many black children there. That’s the reason for the low numbers. Nothing more.

Emphasis added.

Posted by La Shawn @ 9:49 am Permalink
Filed under: Education, Race Preferences    


41 Comments
  1. Dear La Shawn,

    I can’t believe that the guy actually said this in black and white (sorry): “Did I want to turn this system over to a white man? Not if I’d had my druthers.”

    Those two sentences are a kind of “poster child” that sum up and bring home everything you’ve been saying on this blog about double standards for race-based thinking—and how raced-based thinking in the black community harms that community in so many ways.

    Cordially,
    Adrian

    Comment by adrian — 02.24.06 @ 10:16 am


  2. Wow. That quote was ridiculously racist. We’ve returned to the days where skin color actually matters.

    Unbelievable.

    Comment by Ari — 02.24.06 @ 10:22 am


  3. “Being gifted is not a bad thing, but in politically correct America, it’s close to it.”

    . . . this is why I left education. I did my student teaching in New Orleans, but grew up in Montgomery County, MD. I was one of those “gifted” students in private school, but when I went to public they “didn’t believe students should be separated like that.” With very few exceptions, the more gifted a student was, the more trouble they got into–out of boredom, frustration, you name it. I remember one girl who was brilliant at math, and an amazing artist (if the mind-blowing doodles in her notebook were anything to go by) who was sent to the principals office at least two to three times a week. Students whp weren’t “gifted” felt worse when in class with those of us who were because it was constantly in their face, so many didn’t even try. Some classes should not be approached this way. (Others, like my speciality Music, should be completely integrated in this way, with additional clubs for the interested– advanced band, advanced chorus, etc. . .)

    As you say, this sort of “dumbing down” doesn’t help anybody, whether based on “race” considerations or “Self-esteem” considerations. Part of the reason I didn’t get on well with the educational world is my steadfast belief that self-esteem doesn’t not come from a pat on the head, it comes from accomplishment, from being able to say “It was hard, but look! I did that!”

    Comment by Christine — 02.24.06 @ 10:57 am


  4. I taught in a program in a university that was dumbed down to let black kids in who were accepted via affirmative action. If there was anything that helped solidify my change in world view, it was that!

    Comment by mj — 02.24.06 @ 11:12 am


  5. “I think the infighting and bickering is funny, although I do feel sorry for the kids caught up in this ridiculous race-based tripe. What do they care about politics? They should be receiving the best education possible, one that will allow them to compete in society.”

    Compete? When did that get introduced into the school equation? The only game the state in education plays is Monopoly and they get to be the banker.

    La Shawn Did you see Hillary talking about vouchers this week? Truly an embarrassment. I posted the transcript on my blog. And these are the people who want to educate my chilren. I don’t think so.

    Comment by spunkyhomeschool — 02.24.06 @ 11:21 am


  6. Hillary Clinton Unhinged

    Hillary Clinton tells us why the government cannot allow parents to have a choice in how to  spend their own money for education.

    Trackback by Spunky Homeschool — 02.24.06 @ 11:30 am


  7. Self esteem

    Ive always wondered about this self esteem stuff. How can an unrepentant sinner have self esteem?

    The Thief on the cross had no self esteem at all. In fact, he said he deserved his punishment and asked the Lord to remember him.

    If the modern day psycholigists had been there they probably would have jumped up and told the thief his problem was a lack of self esteem.

    Comment by Ted Wegener — 02.24.06 @ 11:58 am


  8. I was in the gifted program in middle-school, and for most of us Black students the only complaint we had was the approach of the teacher. She was very “upper middle class living in suburbia” and it was tough to relate to her. We excelled for the most part, but I just couldn’t connect personally and went back to the regular classes with teachers who were more on my level. (Meaning they spoke in a way I could relate to, direct, not all wispy and flowery.)

    Our gifted program was just too much about feelings and not enough about results.

    Comment by Mark La Roi — 02.24.06 @ 12:10 pm


  9. In the Atlanta Journal Constitution (ajc.com) was a story a few weeks back on how difficult it was to be black and excel in school. It was often considered “too white” to excel academically. I’m not sure such peer pressure may be to blame as much as ability.

    This type of thinking will have to be fixed before we see any real changes in ‘gifted’ minority students.

    Comment by Tom — 02.24.06 @ 12:34 pm


  10. correction (above sentence should have read):
    I think such peer pressure may be to blame as much as ability.

    Comment by Tom — 02.24.06 @ 12:36 pm


  11. Interesting Reading: 2/24/06

    LaShawn Barber chimes in on the education front with Montgomery County Dumbs Down ‘Gifted’ Programs. Some things defy logic. Making gifted programs easier is one of those things.

    Trackback by Fire and Hammer — 02.24.06 @ 1:36 pm


  12. In the moment that home-schooling was legalized in Texas, I started teaching my own two sons. The teachers unions, educrats, and the local school districts moaned that I should be willing to “be patient” and sacrifice my children to their system while they “struggle to make it better”. That was many years ago, my sons completed their home studies, and are college grads. Nothing has changed for the better in the public schools. Our children don’t have the time to wait. They can’t be put into suspended animation until the educrats get it right. Home school. Now.

    Comment by Veritas Regina — 02.24.06 @ 1:50 pm


  13. Ted Wegener said it best :-)

    Comment by Renee — 02.24.06 @ 1:56 pm


  14. Gifted Education Exists for a Reason; Don’t Water it Down

    Montgomery County, Maryland is considering replacing gifted classes with magnet classes for everyone. I am not alone in thinking that this is a bad idea. Classes for mentally gifted children exist for a reason. Gifted kids are bored and frustrated in m…

    Trackback by Gina Cobb — 02.24.06 @ 2:16 pm


  15. I used to live in PG county. When I moved away three years ago, the head of the board of ed. at that time was at the center of a scandal so huge, the town I was living in was trying to make steps to divorce itself from PG county and join a neighboring one. I don’t remember the exact details, but as I recall, the woman had given herself and some of her friends, who had helped get her in the position, a huge “bonus”. (in the hundreds of thousands of dollars for each person) She then proceeded to force Kindergarten students to attend classes all day, sped up the curriculum so that recesses had to be cut in order to get the work done and kindergarten students had homework- not only that but she cut funding (by claiming there wasn’t enough funds) to art, music and computer classes so that there was one art teacher and one music teacher for the whole county. Computer classes were cut completely- except in the poorer more disadvantaged school in the county where they recieved, among other things, video games for their classrooms.

    This was the state of PG county schools when we left. Since then friends have kept me up to date in the goings-on of the area. (I don’t know how the old Board of Ed head was removed, but she was. forcefully.) Although i had not heard about this latest developement.

    Imagine a school in the mid-west where the over-whelming majority of the students are white. Now imagine a white school board chairman telling the newspaper that he agonized over whether or not to hire the latest superintendant because the man was black. What if he said, “Did I want to turn this system over to a black man? Not if I’d had my druthers.”

    Can you imagine that happening- and then can you imagine the guy getting away with it? Without rioting??

    Comment by Jewels — 02.24.06 @ 2:29 pm


  16. Jewels, the poor man would be figuratively tarred and feathered and probably wouldn’t be hired by another school district anywhere in the country. He’d be branded for life, finished in the education system. The black students in the district, with the support of their parent(s), would use it as an excuse to “boycott” school for a few days in “protest” and hang out. The whole thing would be one big old gigantic MESS.

    But in double standard America, blacks can get away with saying such things. The standard for us is much lower, don’t you know.

    Comment by La Shawn — 02.24.06 @ 3:04 pm


  17. Brace yourself LaShawn.. I completely agree with you! As you’ve seen, I disagree with a lot of what you say on your blog, but one of the things that keeps me coming back is the way you approach race issues and don’t support double standards like so many others do.

    Comment by Thomas — 02.24.06 @ 3:45 pm


  18. I know it’s cliche to say this, but can you imagine if a white guy said the equivelant of what this black person said?

    _Did I want to turn this system over to a black man? Not if I’d had my druthers._

    His head would probably be on the chopping block by the next morning–at the very latest.

    Comment by Derek W. — 02.24.06 @ 4:21 pm


  19. As a father of two young black men
    (8 and 4, who are reading and writing above grade level), I find it very condecending to find that the MCPS has done this. I moved out of MoCo, MD a few years ago because the place was just too PC. Go take a look at any school or public library. You won’t find very many black children there. That’s the reason for the low numbers. Nothing more.

    Comment by Eric Brown — 02.24.06 @ 5:31 pm


  20. I disagree that only achievement can deliver self-esteem. Usually, just enough love is all it takes.

    But the overall point is true. When I returned to college in my mid-30’s (1886), a singular minority identified as a “junior” was in three of my classes. Two of our shared professors returned his papers as “unintelligible; rewrite and submit.” One professor gave him an “A.” Since he had performed so differently for different professors, I asked to read his A paper. He obliged. The two professors were right. Not even a coherent sentence, let alone a coherent “argument” in either philosophy course. I returned to my paper, which received a “B+,” and began to question the disparity. I mean, I did not rapidly succeed in business because I was illiterate, or have a 3.8 gpa, but yet this other kid was succeeding academically in one of the three classes. I found out why:

    I took as the subject of my paper “con: abortion.” I used all the arguments advanced by natural law thinkers, Kantians, and ecclesiastical thinkers, and thought I had rebuffed even the “privacy” argument of the SCOTUS’ Roe v. Wade. I thought the arguments were pretty good. So did a Univ. of Michigan doctoral student.

    You see, I am actually pro-choice. Still am. But I wanted to see the “other side’s” perspective, so I attempted to defend the anti-choice claims to my very best. So why did my paper merit a B+, while this other individual’s paper merited an A?

    Two answers: (1) obvious social promotion; (2) I chose the politically-incorrect stance on a subject. At least two professors treated students on the basis of merit; one obviously did not.

    This isn’t the only time I encountered “political fallout” for taking the “wrong” side. This one is even more blatant. I actually received an “F” for a course after graduate school, because I sided with several critical essays (31 footnotes) against a certain Russian poet. Don’t misunderstand me. I love 19th century Russian literature, and Nabokov is one of my favorite 20th C. authors, which is why I took the course after graduation, but I thought a claim the professor staked was untenable, and called him defend it with copious intellectual support. His answer: You failed.

    Numerous students have similar experiences. It’s got to stop. It’s a mockery of education and a mockery of genuine achievement. It also stifles the very thing universities are designed to do: Stimulate thought.

    Eek! I didn’t mean to imply that only achievement (or performing) provides self-esteem. Yes, love is important. - Admin

    Comment by David — 02.24.06 @ 5:31 pm


  21. A form of reverse discrimination, stupidity, and laziness. Take athletics in some schools… Let ALL the children play, whether they have talent or not. It’s not whether we win the game, but that everybody gets to play and no one gets their feelings hurt. Doesn’t matter that you have talented kids sitting on the bench. Give everybody a trophy. Oh, and let’s don’t forget no playing rough (physically or intellectually), someone might get hurt or left behind.
    Sad.

    Comment by Debbie — 02.24.06 @ 6:57 pm


  22. To Eric Brown:

    I too used to live in Montgomery County; Montgomery Village to be exact.

    The MV library was filled with kids of all races, including Blacks.

    Montgomery County is supposed to have a good school system, but I took a look at the performance numbers and saw differently. This is across the board.

    A woman I knew used to teach at Montgomery College and she was surprised at the number of students who had trouble doing basic math. Again, this was across the board race-wise.

    Yes, in some Black areas, if there is a library, it’s empty. But, if you want to see 1/2 empty concerning Blacks, that’s all you will ever see.

    Comment by DarkStar — 02.24.06 @ 7:21 pm


  23. La Shawn Barber - a Friend to Homeschoolers!

     
    La Shawn Barber is a very well respected blogger and just happened to have been featured in the Winter Issue of

    Trackback by The Official HSB Community Blog — 02.24.06 @ 7:26 pm


  24. Oh absolutely … I remember back in 6th grade when my original elementary school (predominantly white), merged with another (predominantly black).

    I started out in the “high reading level” class, but they decided our class was “too white” so they moved half of the “mid-level” into our classroom.

    Guess what happened?

    We ended up with segregation WITHIN the classroom as we were still split into the two reading levels.

    Of course what fascinates me to this day is that it seems a great many very powerful people in this country seem to have even poorer communication skills than the “urban” students I went to school with.

    Comment by Axinar — 02.24.06 @ 9:08 pm


  25. But that didn’t reach the ultimate funny–what really reached the ultimate funny is when I received an email from Spunky Jr. telling me that I received a great shout out from one of my favorite bloggers, La Shawn Barber. So, I travel on over, telling my mom that La Shawn gave me a shout out, and we begin to read the list of bloggers she linked to. And, lo and behold, here’s what I read beside my name: Adorable homeschooled kid - I had no idea he was a teenager until he told me. Hadn’t seen the pic.

    Pingback by Agent Tim Online — 02.24.06 @ 10:00 pm


  26. Why would John E. Deasy take a job from a guy who would talk about hiring him like that? Sounds like he should contact a leftward-leaning social worker in the District and schedule a self-esteem check!!

    Comment by Christine Inauen — 02.24.06 @ 10:02 pm


  27. Excellent post. This new “diversity” binds and stunts it claims to advocate. I fully believe that people of all skin colors are naturally capable accomplishments. To believe OTHERWISE is discrimination.

    Comment by Dell — 02.24.06 @ 10:05 pm


  28. LaShawn,

    “The soft bigotry of lowered expectations” is alive and well in Howard County, MD. I have a friend who is Hispanic, married to a black man, with a couple of lovely boys in elementary school. Both parents are bright and ambitious.

    She found out that the teachers had decided that her boys weren’t all that smart, so they would not challenge them, to avoid hurting their “self esteem.” Because she watches over them when they do their homework, she noticed when they were switched in their classes and the work got repetitive, and new concepts were introduced more slowly. She went to the school, and told them what she expected of the school. We talked about it ahead of time, and I said “Go get ‘em!” The boys’ classes became more rigorous, and their grades (B’s, mostly) stayed the same. Obviously, the children were perfectly capable of handling the work. She did, successfully, what I had failed to do, to my long-standing regret.

    These schools have a huge demand for the gifted and talented program, which is mostly reserved for the children of teachers and other people who know how to game the system. I lost out on this when my oldest son was transferred into this system, and went six months without doing his homework, without any contact to me at all. He told me he was doing his homework at school, I believed him, and his grades were fine. I had no way to know his attitude was being trashed.

    I think what’s really going on is that teachers are looking for ways to dump kids OUT of the GT program and into something that strongly resembles babysitting, and anybody who proves vulnerable, that is, who has parents who art not alert enough to know whether their child is getting screwed over, will find their child treated as a lesser being.

    The way to stop this nonsense is to demand a more rigorous curriculum for your child.

    Go for it.

    Comment by Valerie — 02.24.06 @ 10:15 pm


  29. Watering Down Gifted and Talented Programs

    I read today on both LaShawn Barber and Dr. Helen’s blogs that there is an effort in Montgomery County Md. to attract more minority representation in gifted and talented elementary school programs by “dumbing” down the entrance requirements into the…

    Trackback by The Information Junkie — 02.25.06 @ 12:34 am


  30. I’d like to recommend Sprittibee. She’s a homeschool mom and has a good blog. She really does a good job on the blog and has some really good posts on a regular basis. Check it out

    Comment by rich glasgow — 02.25.06 @ 12:43 am


  31. I was declared gifted in two states, but sometimes it seemed like the gifted programs were designed to keep me so busy I didn’t realize they weren’t teaching me anything useful, like how not to die (SolveThePuzzle!What’sThatWord!GetThroughTheMaze! Oooh… narwhals.). :-?

    …but at least I got to be a crossing guard and flag bearer. …until I started my lifelong protest against homework. :-?

    One year my highschool gifted teacher was so focused on liberal arts and depressed playwrights that after Eugene O’Neill’s “Fog” I started coming to school drunk. My performance in school took a nose-dive even though it had all been downhill even since my third grade principal paddled me black and blue for trying to prevent a fight; after that, there was no such thing as an authority figure, morally or intellectually. During my second 9th Grade Standard English reading of The Crucible, my teacher asked if anyone knew what succubus meant and I was almost tempted to give an extensive amalgamated profile of the succubus/incubus phenomenon from historical manifestations, but I feared it would get me sent to the counselors office. My World History teacher could almost keep my attention long enough to stop me from astrally projecting during WWII videos, almost, so I gave him my copy of the Necronomicon to see if that would liven up the chapter on ancient Sumeria. Some time during the 10th/11th grade (there was some debate about which grade I was in) I simply stopped going to school except when I wanted to see friends, so I would just read my own books and take their tests for fun; I walked into a new American History class on the day of a mid-year exam and got something like an 86, of course I knew I deserved about a 10, so I had to give the credit to the ancient Sumerican god of intelligence whose runes I was scribing on the desk. Forget teachers, I didn’t need teachers, I needed an exorcist! I was a *nasty* little liberal. :-/

    Jesus saves! :-D
    Can I get an Amen? :-)

    Comment by Rev. Thomas S. Painter (R) — 02.25.06 @ 11:07 am


  32. Thanks, La Shawn, I needed that. The only group this kind of outcome based crap benefits is the Educrats. EVERYONE else loses.

    Comment by Mark — 02.25.06 @ 11:20 am


  33. So much of the problem is due to having black “leaders” like Jesse Jackson. Thank heavens that new, true leaders, like T.D. Jakes, are emerging and throwing away that people have to be held back because of past injustices.

    Jakes said: “Until your attitude is corrected, you can’t be corrected….You cannot expect the whole human race to move over because you had a bad childhood.” (Woman, thou art loosed!, page 137)

    Comment by Stingray — 02.25.06 @ 3:40 pm


  34. Tutor. If someone shows talent for basketball there is no limit to the coaching he or she will get from the community. Do the same for the intellectual muscles. We cannot afford the luxury of restricting the advance of any of our people, because we will need them all doing their best.

    Comment by Walter E. Wallis — 02.25.06 @ 4:19 pm


  35. Dumbing down schools for “racial equality”

    The esteemed La Shawn Barber laments the controversy surrounding a white man who was hired to head the predominantly black Prince George’s Country school district. The Washington  Post reports: “Let me tell you, this was an agonizing d…

    Trackback by Stingray: a blog for salty Christians — 02.25.06 @ 4:21 pm


  36. Eek! I didn’t mean to imply that only achievement (or performing) provides self-esteem. Yes, love is important. - Admin

    La Shawn- Don’t back down!

    Kids are not dumb… I’m sure they realize the difference between a “supportive adult’s” opinion vs. what they see and hear from other “unbiased” observers…

    I would completely stand with your original statement— “You get it(self-esteem) by performing. That requires effort“.

    Everything else is just “flattery”…

    Comment by scott — 02.25.06 @ 6:56 pm


  37. Thanks, La Shawn, I needed that. The only group this kind of outcome based crap benefits is the Educrats. EVERYONE else loses.

    Comment by Pit — 02.27.06 @ 10:52 am


  38. La Shawn, thank you for highlighting some of the great bloggers at HomeschoolBlogger. It is a wonderful community of homeschoolers.

    I have an interesting article today on my blog about a developer seeking to restore one of the last two remaining one-room schoolhouse structures in Mecklenberg County in North Carolina that was built by African Americans just after the Civil War.

    The link is: http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/Tami/91164/

    Comment by Tami — 02.27.06 @ 11:59 am


  39. #19 Eric Brown who writes: As a father of two young black men
    (8 and 4, ….)

    They are KIDS Eric!!!!!! Dear God, most 25 year old males are not men.

    I know, you have been so sensitized that you can’t call them “boys.” However, you had better get a grip on reality or both you and these two innocent vessels are going to have one hellova ride.

    Comment by Heliotrope — 02.27.06 @ 9:42 pm


  40. But that didn’t reach the ultimate funny–what really reached the ultimate funny is when I received an email from Spunky Jr. telling me that I received a great shout out from one of my favorite bloggers, La Shawn Barber. So, I travel on over, telling my mom that La Shawn gave me a shout out, and we begin to read the list of bloggers she linked to. And, lo and behold, here’s what I read beside my name:

    Pingback by Daily News Post — 03.05.06 @ 12:28 am


  41. No more NEA

    Comment by BIRDZILLA — 03.06.06 @ 10:00 pm