My quote from the old testament was meant to prove that he was wrong; that at one time Christianity had the same requirement that Islam has regarding apostasy.

I’d say that you were attempting to make a Christians are hypocritical and don’t even know what they really believe point. But maybe my perceptions are coloured by the more blatant attempts to make such claims about Christians that I encounter everyday.

What do you know of the culture and history of Israel at the time the law you quoted was given? Do you understand the context out of which it came? Your comments so far indicate that you don’t understand how it relates to Jesus and the New Testament. You have indicated that you are not an expert in these matters, neither am I. But I do know enough to give an account of what I believe (it’s sort of a requirement of the faith). Do you?

Old testament is the bloom, the new testament is the blossom and you cant have one without the other.

Us Christians look at some of the old testament and are thankful that we have grace today. Not a free pass to sin, but grace. And a true christian isnt looking for a excuse to sin.

Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of Himself in the entire old testament, followed the law at all times and gave us the true meaning of the law. He didnt break even one little commandment and was sinless in this.

Islam has no grace. They deny Christ’s deity. They basically say “believe what He says” but “he’s not the son of God.”

That right there tells you something is wrong.

“The Muslim faith requires people who abandon Islam to be put to death. There are some Muslims who ignore it, but the truth is that’s what their doctrine and scriptures teach. The Bible never has required this, and neither has Christianity, although some psychopaths claiming to be Christian might have claimed so in the past.”

My quote from the old testament was meant to prove that he was wrong; that at one time Christianity had the same requirement that Islam has regarding apostasy.

When it comes to prophecies, you’re correct, the New Testament is a fulfillment of the Old Testament. However, when it comes to laws and commandments (like the one I brought up) the New Testament laws and commandments replaced those. I never claimed Christians behaved in a similar manner, only that the Islam law that brought this about (and that many are using as a reason why Islam is a bad religion) was also a Christian law during Old Testament times.

How do you get from the above (what I actually said in my comment) to

“So are you saying that the infallable God of the New Testament made a mistake when he imposed that law on ancient Israel.”

What do you suppose was the point of the laws governing ancient Israel?

As to translations, folk who speak English are very spoiled in that they have a plethora of translations to chose from when they approach the Bible. If you’re really interested in Biblical scholarship (or just want to score points in an argument with Christians) at least take the time to choose a translation (there are several) that avails itself of the most up to date Biblical scholarship and the oldest and most reliable Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.

“So I do understand the concept that most Christians hold of the Old Testament being replaced by the New Testament, which is one of the many problems I have with the religion.”

I can see why you would be having problems. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament not a replacement. That’s a very important concept to understand and an important distinction to make.

“my point is several posts have claimed the difference between Islam and Christianity is that God never commanded Christians to kill those who convert away from it. That quote says otherwise and no one wants to explain that apparently.”

Not to be overly harsh or anything but you may have been raised in the church and been “active” (whatever that means) but you clearly don’t understand as much as you think. As was pointed out the verse you quote is from the Old Testament referencing Israel. A more thorough study of the Bible would have revealed to you that what you quoted was part of the law governing ancient Israel. Further study would have revealed that all of the law was fulfilled by the death of Christ on the cross.

Now why do you suppose that Christians don’t go around killing people for not being Christians? Again I find it telling that your response to an incident where a man may lose his life for being a Christian is to try to claim that Christians behave in a similar manner. If you truly believe that what is happening to Mr. Rahman is indeed evil what is your purpose in trying to lay this sin at the feet of Christians when they proclaim it to be so?

LaShawn, as always thank you for allowing myself and others to post comments/questions that you often don’t agree with. I think it allows for a much more productive discussion than if everyone just agreed.

Your comment to “read the rest of the Bible” worries me; are you suggesting that Christians can just throw out passages that they don’t agree with? Are there not other passages in the Quran that speak of peace? So I could just say “read the rest of the Quran” and disregard the verses about killing converts right? Of course not, just as I can’t ignore those verses in the Quran I also can’t ignore the one I quoted from the Bible. That’s why I’m trying to get a Christian’s view of that verse.

As for your translation comment, I used to play a game (at church ironically) that was supposed to show the evils of gossip. We would pass a simple phrase around a circle and by the time it got through 20+ people the entire message had changed drastically. Similarly, translating things tends to lose meaning or gain meaning that wasn’t originally intended. I’m curious what the original Hebrew says for that verse, but not so curious what the “Bible For Teenagers Who Like Easy Words” translation says. Regardless of translation I think no one should kill someone else for converting away from that religion, but my problem is the Bible apparently tells Christians to do just that, as does the Quran.

As for the situation with this man being horrible, wrong and evil.. I agree with you 100% and that has nothing to do with my religious views.

And your point is? Read the rest of the Bible, there are 66 whole books with several chapters each and thousands of verses (and please pick a more recent translation than the King James version, English has changed a lot in the last several hundred years) and then you tell us why Christians don’t go around stoning people for the sins they commit.

Also it’s interesting that you chose that one verse because it is no doubt one that was used to justify the stoning of Stephen a follower of Jesus (who is mentioned at the very beginning of this post).

A man’s life again hangs in the balance because of his Christian faith. He is not alone or unique in this. Thousands are in the exact same postion the world over. Many have died, many more will die for not denying Christ. Some will be spared. That’s the way it is but it doesn’t mean we have to like it or not call it what is, pure evil.

In response I offer this for thought:
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; … Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die. – Deuteronomy 17:2-3,5

So should Christians stone to death someone who converts from Christianity to any other religion? I assume the answer is no, but it seems the above passage commands otherwise.

Muslim 623 The Prophet said: “It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim except in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for a life (if the person is Muslim), and the deserter of Islam.”

Bukhari 9:89:271 A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism Mu’adh said: “I will not sit down unless you kill him as it is the verdict of Allah and His Apostle”

Bukhari 4:52:260 Ali burnt some people (Zanadiqa, atheists 9:84:57) although the Prophet had said, “Don?t punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (Fire)” if a Muslim discards his religion, kill him”

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Try searching the web for your evidence of Islamic law. I only spent 2 minutes finding the above.

Sounds like a Muslim version of Hotel California: you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.