[Note: Read this story about black couples renewing their vows.]
I’m no expert on marriage (its benefits or detriments) or children or women or black people; my impressions are based on almost four decades of interaction with and observation of marriage and children and women and black people.
This post addresses the well-linked article, Marriage Is for White People indirectly; I won’t go through it and comment on each paragraph. What I have to say encompasses more than one writer’s personal experience or the “marriage is for white people” meme. Besides the assiduous use of the term “African American,” the article rings true on many levels.
Fellow Christian and blogger Independent Conservative takes issue with the writer’s contentions in this must-read post.
Caveat on This post is based on generalities, not specifics or exceptions or anecdotes. This post is also a post, not a publishable article. Some of it is stream-of-consciousness, and I tried to organize and connect where possible. If I were to rewrite this post as an op-ed, the syllogisms would be clearer and supported with stats, but for our purposes, I think most readers will understand the connections I’m attempting to make. Caveat off
My parents were together until my senior year in college, so I had the benefit of a residential father. So many black children do not. When I came of age in the 1980s, I thought it was strange that several of my friends didn’t live with their fathers. Some were children of divorce; others’ parents hadn’t bothered to get married.
Before I start editorializing and theorizing, let’s look at some numbers. In 1963, more than 70 percent of black families were headed by married couples. In 2006, only 46 percent are headed by married couples. Forty-five percent of black men and 42 percent of black women have never been married. Fifty-two percent of black women will marry by age 30, compared to 81 percent of white women. (A Portrait of the Black Family - PDF) Scroll down to Addendum for more disturbing numbers.
Upon hearing those numbers, some people will say, “That’s because too many black men are in prison or trapped in low-wage jobs or subjected to racism or dead or homosexuals or married to white women.” Rather than looking up the statistics, I’ll concede that all of those factors may be relevant, but something else is going on.
In my admittedly biased, unscientific observations, it appears that black boys are not being socialized to marry and take care of families, and black girls are not being socialized to accept nothing less than an honorable man who will marry and care for them. Generally speaking, boys are not being groomed to be husbands and breadwinners, and girls are not being groomed to keep their legs closed until marriage.
Why are these things so, and why is “black marriage” in such a dismal state? I believe the reasons boil down to two factions: fatherless homes and the weakening of the social stigma against illegitimacy. These two things are interrelated, but I want to deal with them separately.
1) Many black children grow up in fatherless homes. Mothers may love their children and may be the best parents in the world, but even the Greatest Mother of All Time (whoever she is) can’t take the place of a father. Fatherlessness correlates with juvenile crime, drug use, academic underachievement, premarital sex, and many other problems, I’m sure.
I’m one of these religious folks who believes that Adam and Eve existed and that God knew exactly what he was doing when he made them uniquely for his purposes. In the years I’ve spent on this planet, I clearly see that men and women are different and that it is good. Their God-given roles are different, and each role complements the other.
Generally, mothers feel an intense attachment to their children that men do not. That’s not to say fathers don’t have an attachment to their kids. Fathers may love them with all their hearts and minds, but “mother love” is different. Babies grow inside the mother. Mothers labor to give birth to their babies. Many mothers breastfeed their babies. Mothers tend to “baby” their children, but that’s OK because “father love” is there to balance it out.
Men have no idea what it’s like to have another human being feeding off their bodies, sharing the same nutrients. They have no clue what it means to give birth to another human being. This makes women profoundly different than men when it comes to raising children. Generally, fathers feel an urge to physically protect their children. Women also have this urge, but it’s not exactly the same. I believe a woman’s physical attachment to her child is of a different quality than the man’s. We’ve all heard that mothers nurture and fathers discipline. Both parents do these things, but in general, women are more emotional and “touchy-feely” than men. Both parents understand that children need nurturing and discipline, but each parent does more of one than the other.
At this point some of you may be saying, “Wait a second, you don’t know what it’s like to give birth, either.” True, and although I may never give birth, I was created with the capacity to give birth. I have the necessary biological system (including the hormones!). As such, I can speak about these things with more insight than someone not made to carry a human being inside his body.
Still with me? Remind yourselves as you read this post that I’m speaking in general terms. There will always be exceptions.
Back to God. There is harmony in the way he created the two sexes and the family unit. It’s as though they were meant to be joined together. And I came up with that all by myself! They are meant to be joined together, and you don’t have to be a Bible-believing Christian to understand that.
Without “father love,” children grow up missing an important part of their development. That’s not to say they grow up without men, but no brother or uncle or boyfriend or “friend” can ever take the place of a father. In fact, no man could ever take the place of a biological residential father. When children grow up with a mother and father living in the same house, whether family life is ideal or not, they see each role in action. Personalities differ, so in some cases, the mother will be a stronger disciplinarian than the father. The point is that children grow up observing how their parents interact and how they treat each other. A boy learns what it is to be a man by watching his father. There are lousy fathers out there who live with their kids, but there are many more who’re honorable and decent.
I believe that just as parents have biological urges directed toward their children, children have biological urges toward their parents. Even if a child has never known a father, there is something in him that needs a father, whether he realizes it or is able to articulate it. Some have speculated that fatherless boys join gangs to receive the “father love” they didn’t have at home.
This absence of “father love” continues to manifest itself once children reach puberty. Fatherless children, especially girls, are more likely to engage in premarital sex. They don’t get to observe their parents’ marriage and the role each parent assumes. Unless there are loving, strong, and involved men in a boy’s life, he’s cheated out of learning how women should be treated.
Without the benefit of seeing a man (who loves him) go to work to provide for him, come home, discipline him, interact with his mother and treat her well, a boy can’t emulate the behavior. He has to learn a “female version” of it and/or get it in bits and pieces from whichever male figure is handy. While he may frequently interact with related males (uncle, grandfather, etc.), without the chance to observe the marital relationship of his parents up close and personally, a large part of his father/husband training is missing.
I repeat, no matter how good a mother a woman is, she cannot make up for this missing part. A single mother can try — in fact, she must try — to socialize her son to be a good father and faithful husband, but she will fall far short of the goal because the father’s role is crucial in the boy’s development.
I repeat, I am speaking in general terms. Fatherless boys can and do grow up to be good fathers and faithful husbands, but with only a third of black children raised in two-parent families, many fatherless boys won’t experience life as a responsible father and committed husband, but only as a “baby’s daddy.”
2) Illegitimacy is no longer shameful or considered harmful to children. Long gone are the days when chastity meant something. In those days, there were clear lines between being a lady and being a slut. If you considered yourself a lady, you kept your legs closed until you were married. If you wanted to be a slut, you understood that society would shun you, and God forbid if you got knocked up.
Even in the black community, once upon a time, the very idea of a big belly and no ring on your finger was appalling. The shame had a purpose whether people could articulate that purpose or not. It was not good for the community, the mother, or the baby to be raised in poverty and/or in a household with no man around to help raise the child. Most people understand that a marriage is supposed to be selfless. The compromises and sacrifices you make work to the benefit of the family unit.
That sounds like ancient history now. Today, a full 70 percent — and close to 80 percent in some cities — of black babies are born to unmarried women whose own mothers were unlikely not married to their fathers. The generational pattern of illegitimacy in the black community extends through all socioeconomic classes, not just in low-income areas. So what happened to the stigma against being knocked up?
In a review of Raising Boys Without Men, I lay some of the blame on feminism. Although I believe each of us is responsible for our own behavior, we are influenced by our surroundings. Feminism was in full swing in the late 60s and early 70s, and the message was simple: women should be able to screw around without being burdened with old-fashioned stigmas.
But as I stated above, women and men are biologically different, as God designed it. Fairly or unfairly, women have a disproportionate amount of responsibility to be extra careful when it comes to sex. In my unscientific observations, I’ve noticed that women, despite decades of feminist indoctrination, are less casual about sex. While they may try to be casual and act “like men,” it just doesn’t work out that way. Young women have been fed the lie that men and women are not different, but they know instinctively this is untrue. Generally speaking, women don’t want a series of casual sex partners; they want to get married to a strong, decent, and faithful man.
Men also want to marry a decent woman, but generally speaking, they’re more than willing to “entertain” a series of casual sex partners. Their biological urge to “conquer” and procreate has to be reigned in, and this is where marriage comes into play. I’ll have to hunt down the source or find others, but I’ve read about the consequences to a society with a large number of unattached young males. You can predict the crime rates of a neighborhood based on the number of unmarried young men in that neighborhood. While this is called “common sense,” it doesn’t hurt to have actual statistics in hand.
Generally, women have a stabilizing influence on men, more so back in the day when women insisted on marriage before sex. Sluts have always been and will always be around, so if a man wants sex, he can get plenty of it. At no charge. But there was a time — and it still exists in a weakened form — when men had to make compromises to have sex with the sort of women they could bring home to Mother: marriage. Instead of using this “power” to create a nest for their future children, these days young women try to play the game the way men do. When they’ve reached a certain age, they wonder why all those feminist promises fell flat. NYT columnist Maureen Dowd wrote a book that touched on this, and I’d planned to blog about her article, What’s a Modern Girl to Do?, but never got around to it.
OK, let’s get back on track. In general, a man’s biological, social, and economic investment in his children is stronger if he’s married to and living with their mother, and women know this. Ideally, it’s better to wait until you’ve built a nest before you start laying eggs. With feminism came the false notion that women could have a lot of sex, not be considered sluts, and not have to face the consequences. They gave it 100 percent effort, but casual sex costs women a whole lot more than it costs men.
Girls growing up without residential fathers are cheated out of living with committed men who love and protect them. I believe this early experience shapes, but doesn’t always determine, the rest of their lives. Except in movies or on TV or in books or through friends with residential fathers, these girls don’t know what it means to have a man love you uncompromisingly and without reservation, a man who will also teach you how you should expect to be treated.
Many girls in inner cities grow up this way, and poverty tends to exacerbate the effects. With shame no longer attached to a big belly and no ring, there is little incentive to be chaste until marriage. Without an intact family and a balance of “father love” and “mother love,” these girls grow up equating sex with love. Fatherless themselves, they see nothing wrong in sentencing their own babies to fatherless childhoods. And the circle game rolls on and on and on.
In conclusion (Whew!), I’ll tie points 1 and 2 together: fatherlessness is prevalent in the black community on all socioeconomic levels because on all socioeconomic levels, it is no longer shameful to be pregnant and unmarried. All people of all colors in this country have become more selfish. Our primary concern is for ourselves, not what’s best for our precious babies. We scarcely consider the long-term consequences of our actions or the well-being of our children. Women who believe they don’t need a husband and/or can raise their kids just as well alone are deluded, and it’s the subsequent generation that suffers for it.
Having babies with boyfriends is so acceptable in certain black communities, it’s hard to believe that intact black families exist at all. A black child with a residential father married to his mother is such a phenomenal thing. A group that defines deviancy down this far has no one to blame for the fallout but itself.
For unmarried black women who want to blame black men for their state, it just won’t wash. There’s a long list of “issues” at work, and women bear an equal share of the blame.
Other sources:
- The Consequences of Marriage for African Americans
- Marriage, Divorce, Childbirth, and Living Arrangements among African American or Black Populations
- How Young Women Make Their Way in a World of Wimps and Barbarians
- Fathering Magazine
- The Abolition of Marriage (with lots of links)
- Marriage Debate
- Marriage: A social justice issue
Note: Jennifer Roback Morse comments. Make sure you visit her site and check out her new book, Smart Sex: Finding Life-Long Love in a Hook-up World, endorsed Dr. Laura Schlessinger, whose radio show I used to listen to faithfully.
I was still drinking when I tuned in every night to hear this woman’s lectures on “morals,” and even in that degraded state, I loved every minute of it. I believe God brought Schlessinger, a Jewish convert, into my life so I could learn to embrace moral behavior until he was ready to season it with the love of Christ.
Addendum: More numbers from A Portrait of the Black Family (PDF):
- 65% of never-married black women have children, double that for white women.
- 22% of never-married black women with incomes over $75,000 have children, 10 times that of white women.
- 62% of black families with children are headed by a single parent.
…
- 85% of black children do not live in a home with their fathers.
[!!!???? Do you understand the gravity of the situation yet?]- Only 15-20% of black children born today will grow up with 2 parents until age 16.
- Over 80% of long-term child poverty occurs in broken or never-married homes.
- 70% of African-American boys in the criminal justice system come from single-parent homes.
- “The top three moral crises facing the Black family are rooted in sexual immorality.†- Star Parker, President, Coalition on Urban Renewal and Education (CURE).
(Emphases added)
Update: From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:
Without strong black marriages, we can’t have strong communities, schools and neighborhoods…
As you know LaShawn we don’t agree on some things but we will ALWAYS agree on this topic.
(formerly Tiffany in Mpls)
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 03.28.06 @ 11:11 am
A hearty “Welcome Back” to you, Tiffany.
Comment by La Shawn — 03.28.06 @ 11:24 am
Wow La Shawn,
I have a lot to chew on with this but my first reaction is you did a fine job of nailing some key points in this dilemma.
My mother was 19 and single when she had me. I was raised in my grandparents home so I saw two parents (however they were not mine). When my mother had me, out of wedlock childbirth was frowned upon (by the grace of God she didn’t have anymore children out of wedlock). Although I had my grandparents as role models and my uncles and aunts who were married, you are right, it is not the same. I will admit it helped though. I can look back now and see all the times I longed for a father of my own in the house and even in my teens and adulthood using sex to compensate (although we claim that is not why, we are fooling no one and lying to ourselves). I did get married (before I was 20) and it was to fill the void. I had a son and I became divorced (6 years after marrying). Yes, only a truly blind person (spritually seperated from God) can not see the roles of man and women for what they are, and the responsibility they both have to their children when they arrive. I thank the Lord He died so that I might live and for the day He opened my eyes.
I try my best (even as a divorced parent) to make sure my son never see’s his father and I arguing, and in matters of our son, his father is always involved and a part of the decision (I made it a rule that our son would have to ask his father for permission as if he was there physically). My husband is now remarried and I do thank the Lord that when my son is with him during visits, he has an example for how to be a husband and a father. It’s not the optimum situation for raising a child but the truth will not allow me to tell unto my son and pretend that any lifestyle is ok for raising children and that he can do whatever “floats his boat”. He is aware of the fact that there are consequences for being outside of the will of God (regardless of what he believes or not) and no amount of social band-aids will fix them, cover them up or hide the effects (as America is seeing first hand and the black community is feeling doubly so).
Comment by Renee — 03.28.06 @ 11:38 am
Great post Lashawn!
Even worse, I’ve noticed almost a reverse in the trends you describe where rather than men leaving woman to fend for themselves with the kids, woman are starting to do the same to men. I don’t know how prevelant this may be, but I’ve come across almost a dozen single divorced or otherwise dads so far who for one reason or another have full custody of their children. For many of them, the mother is not very much involved if at all with the kids.
This is especially surprising here in California where the laws in family court are for the most part stacked against men.
Comment by Jerry McClellan — 03.28.06 @ 11:44 am
Two books that are extrememly important to this topic and the ensuing debate, and have helped me immeasurably:
The Feminization of American Culture by Ann Douglas
Men and Marriage by George Gilder
Fatherless America: Confronting Our Most Urgent Social Problem by David Blankenhorn
Good post, LaShawn!
Comment by wyclif — 03.28.06 @ 11:44 am
Indeed, Renee. Marriage doesn’t always work out, but we should always teach children what marriage is all about. I didn’t address the spiritual element of all this, though. Although there are many “secular” factors involved, it all boils down to immorality.
Thanks for commenting, Jerry and wyclif!
Comment by La Shawn — 03.28.06 @ 11:45 am
True La Shawn,
The secular viewpoint that sees the facts also are taking the scenic route to get to the answer
Comment by Renee — 03.28.06 @ 11:51 am
I think black folks need to listen to what their grandparents said and return to their spiritual roots. Rejecting these values and morals in the name of “blackness” or rejecting “white society” is a baldly failed experiment and based on a lie to begin with.
The traditions of the black community are centered around the church and faith. Unless these things are returned to, the problems and damage will continue. This attempt to have greater freedom and identity away from faith has not resulted in positives, but incredible negatives.
Comment by Christopher Taylor — 03.28.06 @ 11:52 am
Wonderful post. Thank you so much!
Comment by Randy — 03.28.06 @ 11:59 am
On the flip side of the illegitimate coin is this: a baby is not a good reason to get married! I’ve seen it happen time and time again that couples have had sex, gotten pregnant and decided to get married. And usually the marriage is a really unstable one. Very rarely does this result in a sound marriage. So while we’re counseling our girls to keep their legs shut, we should also let them know that a baby is not a good reason to get married.
My sister married the father of her child. And now, 16 years later they are getting a divorce. And what have her two girls seen? Nothing like a good and loving marriage - instead they have seen two people constantly being hateful to each other. The rest of the family is afraid that the girls will never have a chance of a good marriage themselves, simply because of the example that has been set for them.
I’m afraid I didn’t set the best example either. I lived with my husband for two years before we were married. I look back on it now, and I wish with all my heart that I had waited until I got married. I had another friend who got married on the same day, and I knew that she was sharing a special moment with her new husband that I would never have.
I am lucky that I have come out on the other side with a wonderful marriage, but that is not usually the case, I think. With such casual sex and drive-through marriages, it is easy for people to think of marriage as easy and not sacred. I realized even as a teenager that people were now looking at marriage as they used to look at going steady - “Oh well, if it doesn’t work out, I can always get a divorce.” Here’s an idea - how about a mandatory waiting period for marriage…
So we need to give our young girls a good reason to wait until marriage for sex. And then we need to teach them to have a healthy attitude about their sexuality once they are married - not turn them into prudes who think that their very bodies are sinful. Instead make them see that sex is a beautiful sacred thing to be shared with one person only. Once that moment is gone, it’s gone forever.
Then we need to counsel those girls that have already gone astray. Don’t marry this man unless you are certain he will be a good father and husband. I’m sorry, I cannot agree that having a lousy marriage is better for your kids than a good marriage. However, you need to make sure that they are around successful and loving couples. My sister’s kids will hopefully look at me, my parents and my brother for a good example. My sister-in-law has also had a child out of wedlock, and I pray that my niece can find a good father figure in my husband - and that she will see that it is much better to have a stable marriage than having a child alone. I do know that my niece is not getting everything she needs emotionally from her mother, but the alternative was worse. And now her father is dead (alcohol poisoning). And my sister-in-law is one who has never gotten over her parents being divorced. We’re pretty sure she got pregnant on purpose - again, coming full circle. No father and girls tend to have premarital sex. It’s almost a Catch 22.
I used to be one of those women who thought living together was okay - but I quickly realized that I wanted more! A lot more! Looking back, I cannot change my life, but I can talk to young girls about the need to wait. Just because I got lucky, does not mean that is the norm.
Anyway, just some thoughts for you.
And to close. My birth mother got pregnant and knew she could be no kind of mother to me. So I was adopted into a wonderful family. My parents have been together over 40 years, and I’m one of the few people I know with my original set of parents! My birth mother made the right choice, even though it was very painful for her. As you said, LaShawn, she did not think only about herself.
Keep the faith LaShawn! Great post - it gets people thinking about these things, and that is very important!
Comment by Kierstin Bible — 03.28.06 @ 12:14 pm
LaShawn:
You could go a lot further with this, perhaps in a part II. In my neighborhood, I know a guy is living together with his girlfirend and a son that he has fathered with her. I have talked to him many times about taking responsibility for his actions, but he refuses to do so. He feels as long as he has his “family” is no incentive to marry his girlfriend. I have to be careful when I judge people in these situations because I am a happily married father of a nine-year old daughter, and I have to always be careful that my actions (in and outside of the home) do not give my daughter a misguided impression of what a happy functioning marraige should appear. I am just afraid that my friend’s son when he becomes an adult will not have an idea about what marraige is about, because his parents never took the step to either marry or to dissolve the relationship.
Comment by Robert Tatum — 03.28.06 @ 12:16 pm
As always, an excellent post.
One of the contradictions of the “non-judgemental” crowd is that we are supposed to embrace the single mother but at the same time deride the traditional stay-home mom.
Comment by Fausta — 03.28.06 @ 12:17 pm
Marriage From Another Perspective
Read: La Shawn Barber’s Corner - Black Marriage. La Shawn does it once again. She provides a fascinating look at marriage within the black community. Black is her description and all of you who want to yell at me for
Trackback by Exodus: Live Out Loud — 03.28.06 @ 12:23 pm
More on Marriage
I’m a regular fan of La Shawn Barbers’s blog. From time to time she post something of brilliance.
Trackback by Ron's Random Ruminations — 03.28.06 @ 12:34 pm
Robert #11
Excellent response. If you and your wife don’t set the example, where else is your daughter going to learn what it means to be a husband and a wife.
Right now (in most of the families that are single parent and some that are not)…the tv, the internet, mtv and everything else is the example. that is SCARY!!!
Comment by Renee — 03.28.06 @ 12:41 pm
This is the best commentary that I have read on this article, of which I agree 100 percent. Thanks LaShawn for taking a stand!
There was a time in the black community when a girl got pregnant out of wedlock her parents sent away out of the community to live with a distant relative. Illegitimacy was not glorified. It was shameful and embarrassing.
Sadly, when you speak on these type topics today the overwhelming response is that you’re being self-righteous or judgmental. The adults who live loosely make excuses to defend their self-consciousness and lust. They are not going to hear you. If we want to safe the future, we have to reach the children…
I wish that young persons who perhaps do not have privy to a computer could read and hear more messages like this.
Comment by NLF — 03.28.06 @ 12:47 pm
LeShawn,
A very well thought out piece. There are other investments that are foregone by the single mother situation. Tactically the single mother can’t let their guard down. But no one can be ‘in charge’ 24/7 for 18 years. There is solace in being able to say, “Hey I need a break, your turn…” One also foregoes the resilency of two income flexibility. Sometimes one has to take the good with the bad. But if one has taken the hit, one can turn it to an advantage and look not just work, but better work. If one is on a single income one must get something quickly that may not be to your advantage.
Comment by johnMc — 03.28.06 @ 12:50 pm
I’m a recent convert to your blog from over here in the UK. I might not agree with all of your observations, but clearly recognise that what appears to affect the AA community over there, tends to wing it’s way across the pond to the UK within a given period of time. In particular, societal movements seem to be affecting our African British community in a similar fashion.
Your observations on marriage are ones that I have held for some time, and I am pleased that you have eloquently written what I, the son of Jamaican immigrants, and many other like me have felt for some time. The erosion of moral focus and poverty of ambition is really affecting our youth, and we are now seeing similar occurrences on the streets of London, namely young black girls pushing prams and an ever younger age. The issue for me is that in our community, stigma no longer applies, so we will continue to see more of this. Sad but true.
Keep up the good work, and tell it as you see it…
Keep smiling.
Comment by Doyougetme in London — 03.28.06 @ 1:14 pm
You’re going to receive a lot of kneejerk emotional responses to your post … but anyone willing to set emotion aside and ponder your points logically will have to concede their basic truth.
Whether that truth is pretty or not is beside the point. It is what it is. Sadly, I think the phenomenon you’ve touched on is the harbinger of much worse things to come …. history books 1000 years hence may begin their chapter on the fall of the American Empire with this exact social reality.
Hope I’m wrong; maybe we can learn and change. But history suggests otherwise.
On a happier note - you just convinced me to get off my !%#!@$^% and actually marry my longtime lady love.
And slightly off-topic: this sentence got me thinking: “Generally, women have a stabilizing influence on men …”
I agree … and when I look at the morass in the Middle East, I think the most fundamental cause isn’t religion or fundamentalism, but some basic balance in the roles of men and women that is missing in Muslim societies.
They may have plenty of traditional marriage but when I see all those young men protesting violently, thousands of them, without a woman to be seen … I wonder if the truth is that because women in those societies are so oppressed, that they aren’t ABLE to be that stabilizing influence.
I think if women were able to fulfill the Eve-role they were born for in Muslim societies, terrorism would vanish in a generation …
Just a thought.
Comment by Professor Blather — 03.28.06 @ 2:15 pm
LA Shawn,
Did you read the article in the Washington Post (it was from the same day as the Marriage article) on AIDS in the black community??? and how it crossed generations (just like single parent homes and poverty)??
Comment by Renee — 03.28.06 @ 2:17 pm
Hi Everyone!
La Shawn, it is great that you’ve got this topic going so strongly. A study you might be interested in showed that the percentage of female headed households in an area was more strongly correlated with the crime rate than was the percentage of non-whites, the unemployment rate, or the poverty rate of the area. (Wayne Osgood and Jeff Chambers writing the the journal “Criminology” in 2000.)
Comment by Jennifer Roback Morse — 03.28.06 @ 2:17 pm
I feel very sad for those without the blueprint of marriage for success. My parents have been married for 45 years, and of their 5 daughters, only the youngest became promiscuous and career driven and has been unable to find a husband now that she’s ready to settle down at 33.
I, like my other sisters, picked a man of similar values and demographics. We did not live together before marriage, and waited until marriage. We waited some years to have children, and have tried hard to be home with them as much as possible.
And it has been wonderful- not only are we still in love after 17 years, but the passion is so strong that it borders an obsession. It makes my knees weak to think of him, and he feels that way about me.
Sometimes I have wondered if we should have bothered waiting the several years of courting and engagement while we were finishing college, but then I see how I have also laid the blueprint for my two sons. We are raising them to appreciate the very great benefits of constructing your life carefully, but also letting them know that we will not accept misbehavior.
I look at myself and my sisters, our strong marriages and families, and am again astounded by the wisdom of traditional mores. By all means, bring back the traditional values.
Comment by SR — 03.28.06 @ 2:25 pm
Lawshawn,
I read your articles from time to time and some are enjoyable.
I was looking at this article and read “and girls are not being groomed to keep their legs closed until marriage.”
Did you even do this? No.
I had to stop there. COnservatives seem like women haters…really.
Ebony, dearest, you’re young. You’ll learn. Part of the reason I wrote the post is that I DID NOT remain chaste. That doesn’t mean I’m not qualified to tell young women what they’re doing wrong. Learn from my mistakes. Do as I do, not as I’ve DONE. If you had a higher moral authority in your life other than yourself, you’d clearly understand that. If you want to boil grave issues down to “Conservatives seem like women haters,” go ahead. If you can’t approach this topic as a mature and thoughtful young woman, go away and let the grown-ups talk. - Admin
Comment by Ebony — 03.28.06 @ 2:26 pm
Thanks, La Shawn for always speaking the truth! There aren’t many people doing that–there’s so much PC stuff that affects analyses of the black (American) community. But I don’t have trouble finding immigrant black people who agree with you!
Comment by mj — 03.28.06 @ 2:34 pm
#23
“Did you even do this? No.”
Some people have to learn the hard way. What’s that old saying “hard head makes a soft behind”
Comment by Renee — 03.28.06 @ 2:55 pm
On Black Marriage
La Shawn Barber has an interesting piece on black marriage. She begins by commenting on the article Marriage is for White People, which has gotten quite a bit of attention in the blogosphere.
Trackback by Polipundit — 03.28.06 @ 3:04 pm
La Shawn,
Very interesting opinion, which required me to think about my response. While I agree that having a mom and dad at home can lay a positive foundation for marriage, I believe that a single parent can also provide a foundation for marriage. As you know, God ordained marriage. Many of the marriages today are in shambles because they don’t understand God’s design and purpose for marriage. There is a high rate of infidelity in marriages. There is mental and physical abuse in marriages. Certainly, no one wants children parroting this behavior. But if people knew and taught their kids God’s purpose for marriage, I dare say there would be more healthy marriages.
Most people, not just black, engage in premarital sex. Some do so because they want to, others do so because we have been told it’s okay to sleep with a boyfriend or girlfriend just as long as you are in a monogamous relationship. But having sex for any of those reasons lessens the role and value of sex in a subsequent marriage. Moreover, women who are free with sex or quick to engage in sexual intercourse (even if they are in a relationship) don’t understand that men lose respect for them even though most men won’t say anything about it. As my pastor says, people must have a license to practice sex, i.e. a marriage license. Sex is to valued and respected and should be reserved for marriage. To do otherwise cheapens sex in marriage and make it more likely that one or both spouses will cheat during the marriage. Knowing this, a lot of my male friends are staying away from marriage.
In addition to a lack of understanding of biblical marriage and sex, I believe the marriage decline stems from not understanding how to date. Many of my friends (women and men) blindly enter into relationships for the wrong reasons. While physical attraction and money are important, they should not be the sole determinative factors in deciding whether to enter into a relationship. Yet, my friends base relationship decisions primarily on those factors. They should, however, focus on finding people who can make up for the weaknesses inherent in all us. For example, if one person lacks financial discipline, then a perspective spouse should have financial discipline as a strength.
People who are dating generally fail to talk enough about all the things they want in a mate or spouse before claiming to be “in-love”. People claim to be “in-love” generally right before or after having sex. Generally, people don’t know enough about each other to be in “in-love” at that stage. Once the “in-love” phase is over, however, the couple then begins to realize they have nothing in common. The relationship ends and they are back on the dating scene to find someone else to fall “in-love” with. Before you know it, ten years have passed of failed dating relationships. People get comfortable with their careers and living situation and are reluctant to change. This explains, I believe, why many of my professional friends don’t have kids well into their 30s.
These are just some of my thoughts.
Comment by Antonio — 03.28.06 @ 3:38 pm
This is all so old to me…I’m 57. My parents were tres moderne and got divorced in 1953. My mother just wasn’t happy. As far as I’m concerned they cast us into hell. It was chaos–my two brothers were out of control–my mother had a long affair with a fireman who hated us.
So I went through all this mess in the 1950s and 60s. A preview of the world to come!
I made a stinking mess of my own life, until I became a Christian and married my husband in 1993. Glory be to God! Too late for kids however. One of my brothers ultimately drank himiself to death. The other one’s been out of work since 1991.
Everything La Shawn says is so bloody obvious, I can’t believe it’s even debated. But people just got to go out of their way to Question Everything won’t they. It’s insanity.
Comment by cassandra — 03.28.06 @ 3:48 pm
Ebony- I am astounded that you could put your post right after mine. Did that post read like I, or my husband, or my group are woman haters? Did you not read that I waited until marriage (and that was already abnormal by the late 80s), and yet I have a sex life of phenomenal passion, and a husband that cherishes me?
It is wise to guide (or “groom”) your children not to throw away their precious bodies on fleeting gratification that collects the baggage that makes a good marriage highly unlikely. This shows apppreciation for the value of women, not encourgaging them to allow themselves to be used.
Statistically, it is women in conservative religious denominations that report the highest rates of sexual satisfaction, and I can affirm that personally.
Comment by SR — 03.28.06 @ 3:53 pm
This article sounds like the stoning of all people who have made mistakes, whether divorce or sex outside of marriage. Although back in the day people felt like a girl who has gotten pregnant before marriage was shunned by God..she was not. God is always ready and willing to wait for us with open arms. And before you say-but we have to accuse and be angry, remember what Jesus did to the prostitute who was going to be punished by death. Did He shake His finger at her and tell her die! you are a woman and you have been impure shame on you! or did he forgive her without her having to do anything to deserve it?
Comment by telika — 03.28.06 @ 3:58 pm
I’ve always believed that the root cause to 90% of black America’s problems is that the male is out of control. The male is supposed to be the leader of the home, the bread winner, etc.
And you really can’t blame the black male. I mean, why get married to a black woman when she is willing to “give it up” without having to get married?
Black kids are being spoon-fed by the media of images of black men being upset, baggy clothes, shoot first ask questions later attitude. Women are “Ho’s”, etc.
To be honest with you, it’s getting to the point where it is almost a shame, not being black, but being a black male in the world today. Black males disgrace themselves everywhere they roam the Earth.
Oh, and for the most part, whites are smarter than blacks. Deal with it!
Comment by Kwaku Minta — 03.28.06 @ 4:06 pm
Telika,
Jesus’ first word…Repent (do a little lookup on that)
It’s really sad when people twist Jesus into a hippy who condoned everything without reading ALL of the scriptures
Lord help me.
Comment by Renee — 03.28.06 @ 4:07 pm
I wasn’t saying not to repent but God is waiting for your repentance which is asking for forgiveness He is not shunning or hating you for your mistakes and no one is perfect so everyone has to repent
Comment by telika — 03.28.06 @ 4:10 pm
La Shawn ,
Another “mistake” that helped push this mind set…especially for “professing” Christians …
calling sin a mistake (a mistake is I used margerine instead of butter in a recipe). Something about that word “sin” that convicts man:-)
Comment by Renee — 03.28.06 @ 4:13 pm
Ebony (#23)- I am amazed that you could read my post before yours, where I pointed out that I waited for marriage, and have a loving husband and a phenomenal sex life. Does that sound like woman-hating values?
Telika- you are harming women by failing to point our Jesus said “Go, and sin no more.” He offers salvation by grace, but most certainly preached repentance and righteousness.
You both sound very full of hate and accusations.
Comment by SR — 03.28.06 @ 4:21 pm
“even the Greatest Mother of All Time (whoever she is) can’t take the place of a father.”
That would be Mary, the mother of Christ.
And God provided a father for that family.
Comment by Sam — 03.28.06 @ 4:24 pm
Great post and an even better response to Ebony. I was raised to believe you wait until marriage, and you get married only once in your life - I didn’t. And I have to be honest, without resorting to religious reasons, I wish I had. I didn’t gain anything by not waiting.
My parents divorced as I finished my masters, so it didn’t really affect me much, although I did know I didn’t want their marriage.
Your conclusion paragraph should be posted everywhere, as it so well describes what is wrong with the world today - selfishness…me first, me second and me third.
Comment by Rhode Island — 03.28.06 @ 4:30 pm
Telika,
Just to clarify (and then I am done with this :-))
Repent-
1 : to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one’s life
2 a : to feel regret or contrition b : to change one’s mind
A read of all the verse that the word is used in will verify the definition.
Comment by Renee — 03.28.06 @ 4:40 pm
The Real State of the Black Union
Unlike the “State of the Black Union” that Tavis Smiley peddles every year, La Shawn Barber has a seriously thought provoking and truthful analysis of what is ailing the Black family in America.
Although much of this is based off of La S…
Trackback by The Other Point of View — 03.28.06 @ 4:55 pm
Lashawn,
Wonderful post! Alot of people just don’t get what real marriage IS. I have my parents to look up to. They have had their trials but because of their love for each other and their children, they have stuck it out for 33 years and are still going strong. They act like teenagers sometimes lol. Because of growing up watching them interact, I got an idea of what a real marriage is. Some people are just so quick to throw things away. I have, of course, made mistakes of my own, but I am quick to make up for them. I didn’t wait until marriage and I had a child out wedlock. I consider the things I have done as supremely stupid. Sex, love and marriage are not simple things and shouldn’t be treated as such. Anything worth having takes work. I was lucky though. The man I had my daughter with and I are still together after 10 years and we have another child. We were already engaged when I got pregnant with her. Plus, I had supportive parents, who did tell me they weren’t happy, but helped my husband and I through it all. I hope my husband and I can raise our daughter and son to do better. Not all people are as lucky as I am. Right now through my church, I am speaking to teenagers about these issues. I hope I can help them to make better choices in their lives. There are fundamental traditions out there that should not be thrown away. I hope one day we can all turn things around.
Comment by Laura — 03.28.06 @ 5:24 pm
Marriage– For Whites Only?
Much has been made of the Joy Jones article in yesterday’s Washington Post regarding the attitudes of young blacks towards marriage.The best (bar none) commentary on this article I have seen is this piece by LaShawn Barber. I’m not always…
Trackback by Not Exactly Rocket Science — 03.28.06 @ 6:03 pm
I have a question for black folks who agree that there is a problem w/ marriage in the poorer, black communities.
I have to say that as a person, the deterioration of the black family troubles me quite a bit. I think that it effects all of us, not just blacks. It effects social structure, creates just one more divide between groups of people, it hurts neighborhoods, schools, culture… everything. It effects me and my own family, not to mention my black friends who I love like family.
I have volunteered in SE DC, where a white person is an oddity, and the percentage of single parent homes is nearly 100%. I am still close to some organizations down there. I know the pervasive feelings of “this is not your problem, so butt out” that many blacks feel toward whites who want to help.
But that’s just the thing. I do want to help, and I do care.
Should I just butt out, because I am white? If I don’t butt out, how can I help?
Comment by Jewels — 03.28.06 @ 6:42 pm
My understanding (which is limited) is that one of the worst sins visited on slaves was the destruction of their efforts to create nuclear families. They couldn’t marry, and their familial relationships could be severed on a slaveholder’s whim. I find it ironic, therefore, that modern African-Americans are now make a decision to visit on themselves all the generational hardships that come with single parenthood. I can’t decide if it’s a greater tragedy for a community when this kind of thing is imposed from the outside, or is a self-inflicted wound.
Comment by Bookworm — 03.28.06 @ 8:31 pm
LaShawn, this is a good piece.
Comment by DarkStar — 03.28.06 @ 9:12 pm
Really? Coming from someone who disagrees with me more than he agrees, that means a lot. Thanks.
Comment by La Shawn — 03.28.06 @ 9:17 pm
I am a selfish human being. I go so far as to believe we cannot love another unless we love ourselves. I’m married because I am lucky enough to know its in my best interest. That is, marriage brings more joy than not being married.
Is marriage better for the husband, the wife or the children? Yes. Could I have as good a marriage without Christ? Extremely unlikely. Did I wait for marriage, no. Does that mean that marriage cannot be as good, am not sure. Am only sure that marriage is better . . .
Is there a special someone that we are supposed to marry? Don’t know but don’t think so. The instruction manual seems to be for marriage, not for a certain marriage. Are there things that increase our chance for a wonderful marriage that don’t seem to be mentioned? Yes. Where do I find them? A good church. Are there couples who have a good marriage without the benefits of a church? Yes, but anything that increases the chance of a good marriage is worth seeking out.
Overwhelming odds say: A church that practices what they preach.
Comment by Creative Dude — 03.28.06 @ 9:24 pm
LaShawn sez:
Upon hearing those numbers, some people will say, “That’s because too many black men are in prison or trapped in low-wage jobs or subjected to racism or dead or homosexuals or married to white women.†Rather than looking up the statistics, I’ll concede that all of those factors may be relevant, but something else is going on.
La Shawn is being too kind, allowing all to get in their claims. But actually few of the reasons mentioned by those people are relevant.
1) If “racism” was the problem, why were black out-of-wedlock rates LOWER and marriage rates HIGHER during the era of vicious Jim Crow?
2) If “low wages” was the problem, the same point applies. Back in the day black wages were lower than most other groups. But on the marriage front, blacks did better. Why?
3) Too many men in prison may be the most plausible reason of all, and has some support, but historically black incarceration rates, while not as bad as today, were always relatively high in urban areas compared to the white population. Again, why even with such difficulties did black folk post a better picture on the marriage front than today?
4) Homosexuals? Of course for SOME people but how significant is that problem? Most gays are white, including most gay long term couples.
5) Marriage to white women? Barely chump change. In fact black-white interracial marriages remain uncommon today, making up LESS than 1% of all marriages. And the fastest growing proportion of such unions is not the dreaded black man-white woman, but the opposite, black woman-white man, already approaching close to 40% of such marriages. Most IR hookups are not black-white but involve Asians, Hispanics and white people. To put the numbers in perspective, there are around 300,000 black-white hookups. Long term gay couples, the closest thing to marriage, are mostly white and number over 1 million according to gay activists, almost FOUR TIMES the dreaded “interracial” links. Whatever the problems blacks have in marriage, white women are a trivial item on the list.
Comment by Enrique Cardova — 03.28.06 @ 10:13 pm
Jewels,there are universal problems and then there are problems.What we have in our community is like an epidemic,I don’t think whites have the degree of problems that we have,they have them,but,ask yourself to what extreme?to the African gent trying to play the self hatred and victim game,sorry but,as we say in the south that dog want hunt!I’ve had it with Black men such as yourself always accusing other people of your failings,I think that in this era of moral relativism a concet you have forgotten,its called personal responsibility.Granted Balck men and women have made complete asses off themselves,but,since our so-called leadership says little to anything critical of such base behavior what do you expect!Bill Cosby was one of the few that mentioned it,but,when he did say something the left in the media drags up some little gold digger that no one ever heard of and she “claimed” sexual harrassment,I thought everything about her was suspicious and you see that nobody has seen hide nor hair of this women since,also the media(lefties)did not give any coverage of what Cosby was trying to do,but if it is anything that can considered a “race crime” or some other silliness they are all over it.I do agree with you to a certain degree about whites being a little more intelligent than we,because they have enough sense not to believe everything that is told to them,by media,and others and they will not let anybody continue to use them as we do,it seems that we always end up as somebodies hooker,but,that responsibility should be on us.
Comment by Lisa Gilliam — 03.28.06 @ 10:21 pm
Bookworm sez:
.. one of the worst sins visited on slaves was the destruction of their efforts to create nuclear families. They couldn’t marry, and their familial relationships could be severed on a slaveholder’s whim. I find it ironic, therefore, that modern African-Americans are now make a decision to visit on themselves all the generational hardships that come with single parenthood. I can’t decide if it’s a greater tragedy for a community when this kind of thing is imposed from the outside, or is a self-inflicted wound.
Good point, but the “legacy of slavery” theory advanced by some is a shaky one. Even under the harsh conditions of slavery, something equivalent to marriage was recognized and honored among slaves, hence “jumping the broom” back in the day, and slave men generally took responsibility when possible for the children they caused.
Indeed, in the immediate decades after the Civil War, the stats show that black folks were not basket cases “damaged” by slavery as far as marriage goes. Indeed black folk back then posted HIGHER marriage rates and LOWER divorce rates than white people. No one would argue that the stats were perfect back then, but the data available strongly suggest that blacks held marriage in much more honor and respect than they do today. Both behavior and attitudes were different.
While economic pressures always stress family relationships, I would say the scale tips towards this self-inflicted corner. However to that tipping this must be added the baleful affect of the welfare system so beloved by liberals, which essentially subsidises out-of-wedlock births. Black out-of-wedlock and divorce rates prior to the welfare revolution were hardly markers of sainthood, yet they were a fraction of what they are today. See books like “The Poverty of Welfare” for detailed negative effects, or McWorther’s “Winning the Race” for a detailed description of the “helpful” effects of multigenerational welfare dependency, and Sowell’s “Affirmative Action Around The World” for the stats on historical black marriage rates.
Comment by Enrique Cardova — 03.28.06 @ 10:29 pm
I enjoyed your post but I find it fascinating that, just like Joy Jones, you seem to accept the premise that it is most desirable for Black women to marry Black men. Before marriage I had several Black boyfriends and dated several Black men. But after graduating from college it became more difficult to meet Black men who did not already have children from previous liaisons. Deciding not to restrict my potential marriage candidate to Blacks allowed me to fall in love with a wonderful European man who is already quite protective of our unborn child. He is God-fearing, hardworking and supportive. I wonder why Black women, who have the lowest rate of intermarriage of any group in the U.S., don’t open themselves to other possibilities. I also wonder why we, as a community, do not emphasize the consistent use of birth control. In this era of easily available contraceptives, premarital sex makes pregnancy a possibility but not inevitability.
Comment by Preparturient — 03.28.06 @ 10:34 pm
Oh….the consequences of refusing God and jumping into sin….
These numbers are very sobering…but are reminder again of the time we live in. While hitting the black community harder its the way the world is today. Its a result of the steady separation of the world from God. Jesus predicted this.
Wealthier whites, while sinning the same amount dont have the same physical consequences as poorer blacks because they are using more protection.
Of course its worse now…
America as a whole needs to go back to basics…
1. Stop having sex before marriage. Doesnt matter about protection. Its still absolutely wrong to have sex outside of biblical marriage. Practicing this lifestyle can lead to problems now and/or problems in the life to come.
2. Dont covet. Hard work is required to achieve things in life. You have to start somewhere and sometimes its the very bottom. Be happy with what you have NOW. Everyone can be thankful for something. Being alive, being born in America, family, friends. Quit trying the illegal stuff just cause you want to “get paid”.
3. Quit blaming others and take personal responsibility. Its no one else’s fault. Yes, there is racism in America. I deal with it daily, but it aint nothin like it was for my parents. Shake it off and move on . Realize that being born in America puts you WAY ahead of 99% of the world, no matter what socio-economic class you are in.
Its so simple.
The basic solution…
submit to Christ and stop sinning…just do it. Get to know Christ…thats the answer and its the ONLY way.
Comment by lukeNC — 03.28.06 @ 10:45 pm
Daily News For March 29, 2006
Domestic Mexican Flag Waving Illegals Rush The Dallas City Hall McCain Comes Out In Favor Of Giving Illegal Aliens Citizenship…
Trackback by Right Wing News — 03.28.06 @ 10:52 pm
Jewels sez:
have volunteered in SE DC, where a white person is an oddity, and the percentage of single parent homes is nearly 100%. I am still close to some organizations down there. I know the pervasive feelings of “this is not your problem, so butt out†that many blacks feel toward whites who want to help. But that’s just the thing. I do want to help, and I do care.
Should I just butt out, because I am white? If I don’t butt out, how can I help?
Jewels one thing that could be mentioned is to remain balanced in your analysis of the issue. People will charge “racism”, scheming white women, etc, etc, but as shown above, all such standard mantras are dubious. Keep in mind that black folk did BETTER on the issue in the bad old days of racism than now.
On the flip side are some white conservatives who are all too willing to attribute the problem to black moral failings. Keep in mind that certain white groups, also experienced the same problem as they worked their way up the economic ladder, such as the white Irish. Back in the day, they were marked by high levels of divorce, violence, out-of-wedlock births, and dependence on public services, just like many blacks are today. Many like to point the finger at blacks as these hopeless basket cases, but history hardy shows sterling “role models” on several areas of the white side of the fence.
Remember also the welfare system, and its baleful effects in subsidizing promiscuity and out-of-wedlock births. Especially read mcWorther’s “Winning The Race” and others like “The Poverty of Welfare” which have more than enough detailed stats to prove the point.
Finally, your best bet may be to mostly listen. Expect to get little sympathy if you mention facts and empiracal evidence, versus emotional mantras. You can support black organizations and groups working to make marriage stronger, from churches, to many non-profits. Look for those that are grassroots based and that actually are “judgemental” in FAVOR of marriage- rather than yet more top heavy “intervention” programs involving yet more government bureaucrats.
Finally do all you can to promote marriage by personal example, and speak out against forces seeking to weaken marriage, including the homosexual mariage movement, an issue on which you are generally likely to find agreement with many blacks. Naturally all these suggestions might be deemed “conservative”, but whether you agree or not, take a hard look at the facts first.
Comment by Enrique Cardova — 03.28.06 @ 10:54 pm
This was an unbelievable article. Laura Ingraham did a great thing on this tonight on her radio show. The great African-American thinkers are rising finally!
Comment by J. Mark English — 03.28.06 @ 11:50 pm
Lashawn I just wanna say to you I only agree with you about 40 percent of the time. But on this topic , you hit one out of the park. I just would like to add a couple of things. You summed up the the article by saying that fatherless kids are prevalent in the ghetto because it is no longer shameful to be an unmarried parent. In the black community we have a lot of things going on that should not be, we treat each other most disrespectfully. I believe that at this point in our development we are a back wards group of people. Its not just the unmarried parent thing that shameful, what about our fixation with clothes when the majority of us are broke, how about the joneing and the ridicule that anyone who is different in our community faces from us, what about all of the crimes that go unreported in our community though everyone is watching. What about all of these people who have serious mental problems but wont get help(partially because of the stigma in the black community), what about people not using condoms ( know how many brothers have told me they hate using condoms and wont use them), and yeah if black people would be more selective of when and who they have sex with that would cure a lot of the problems we have, but still if folks are going to have sex (which they proven that they will) they should at least use a condom if they don’t plan on ever getting married to the person. Their is one elephant in the room I never hear our people talking about. And that is the deep inferiority complex that all blacks have, but especially dark skinned black people. You fail to mention that we came out of the process of slavery and segregation with gigantic inferiority issues. We also came out of that process with serious mental problems that I have rarely heard talked about.Growing up in in Oxon Hill in the 1980’s, I remember that everyone use to really, really give the darkest skinned people people the most terrible time you could Imagine ( including me and I’m dark skinned myself). I know for a fact that a lot of dark skinned people did not like their dark skin including me. I believe we have a fundamental self hatred of ourselves going on.This problem if left unchech we only pile onto the other problems we have. Don’t even let me get started on our clear and blatant disrespect for education. I just dont get the impression that we want to do better. What’s that about. Mark
P.S Great blog Lashawn even though I disagree with you about 50% of the time , I like your blog the best because you promote stimulating dialog that will be usefull.
God Bless you
Comment by mark bey — 03.28.06 @ 11:56 pm
Very well thought out and researched! You did an excellent job in this post. It is so sad but true!
Comment by Bonnie Calhoun — 03.29.06 @ 12:06 am
Lashawn,
Another damning statistic you didn’t mention is only six percent of all families (of any race) headed by a husband and wife fall below the poverty line.
Unfortunately, this is a self-perpetuating problem. As more black boys grow up in single-parent households, resultant bad behavior (criminal or sexual) thins out their ranks to the point that women lose their traditional role as gatekeepers for sex. In some of the larger cities black women outnumber black men by more than 30% (36% in NYC). You don’t want to put out? Fine, he’ll just move on to the next available woman. There are plenty.
Somehow we’re going to have to break that cycle. Somehow a generation of black men is going to have to be convinced, in the absence of a role model, to stay out of jail, stay healthy (free of drugs and AIDS), and get a job. The way things stand, if every black woman in the US were to wait for marriage with a black man before having sex, millions of black women would live lonely, sexless lives. That’s a bit much to ask.
My solution? Eh… drawing a blank here.
Comment by Eric — 03.29.06 @ 1:00 am
A great post, La Shawn, and many fine, positive comments. How do we move forward?
It’s our society-we can determine what is right and proper: make marriage the socially acceptable option-which means speaking out against the other options which are destroying society.
Even if we means we must say to our children, “I and your Mother messed up-we should have gotten married-if you want to live successfully, in harmony with your mate, get married.”
Comment by Doug — 03.29.06 @ 1:42 am
If you removed the “black” word and replaced it with “lower-class English” you would have a document that would be just about as accurate - including the part about how this used not to be the case 30 or more years ago.
I don’t have the statistic either but out of wedlock births, single parents, teen pregnancy etc. are serious problems amongst all races in certain parts of English society. As is binge drinking and drunken sex with strangers (funnily enough that tends to lead to the above).
I think this is important to bring up because it should help squelch anyone who tries to use the “race” angle as an excuse or to lay blame.
Comment by Francis — 03.29.06 @ 2:02 am
Excellent post I talk about this all the time to my family members and you would think I just dropped out of sky speaking an unknown tongue.
Comment by James Newman — 03.29.06 @ 7:23 am
I’m a middle-aged black woman, and reading that 12-year old black children think that,”marriage is for white people”, was a read it and weep moment, a time to sow and a time for reaping. This is the devastation of my generation’s embrace of the “new morality” where sex is concerned, and the widespread moral counterfeiting surrounding the issue of race. The implications of a generation of black children growing up using the race card to explain why their fathers are absent is nothing short of social suicide.
Repenting.
v varnado
Oak Park, IL
Comment by vvarnado — 03.29.06 @ 7:46 am
LaShawn’s Corner is the kind of place where people of all races can come and have intelligent, CIVIL discussion about these important issues. That’s why it’s my daily read.
My marriage falls in that “less than 1%” bracket. It happened because of God’s will. And because of that, life for me with her has never been better.
Comment by Dave in AZ — 03.29.06 @ 8:31 am
I appreciate the honest and direct assessment of black marriage. My take is that marriage in general is a colorless topic. Either people listen to their creator Jesus Christ on the topic or they don’t. Those that don’t will see great difficulty and in turn so will society.
Your column is one I often enjoy reading. Often the culture turns the debate as white vs black on issues. Biblically there is only one race and one blood since we all are descendants of the same family… namely Noah.
Keep up the good writing. Thank you for your contribution.
Comment by Conservative Culture — 03.29.06 @ 8:51 am
She says she’s not an expert on either subject, but she has a keen eye.
Pingback by Conservative Politics — 03.29.06 @ 9:11 am
Lisa, I’m sorry, I don’t know where you got the idea that I was making a racist statement or something. I just want to help out a community of people. It does not matter that they’re black, they are my friends.
The stats I mentioned were given to me by my black friend who lives in SE DC and who runs an organization that mentors kids from 2 years to adulthood. I’m still involved with that org. They’re a great group of people.
Enrique, thank you for your thoughtful response.
Comment by Jewels — 03.29.06 @ 9:19 am
Excuse me, Lisa, I’m sorry. I just re-read your comment and I see that you were addressing someone else after you addressed me. I missed that earlier. (what a dope) I’m sorry about that.
You’re right about the degree the marriage issue effects each community. I think that a lot of people don’t realize, however, how much we effect each other.
Of course, I just got back from watching the musical Ragtime, so this theme is fresh in my skull right now.
Comment by Jewels — 03.29.06 @ 9:26 am
This article was shocking and sad, but I should not be surprised. I formerly worked in child care and served mostly single female led families. A small percentage was separated/divorced, and a much smaller percentage was widowed. Oh then there was the group within this group where the mother lived with the father (of some or all children), or lived with a man that was not the father of any of the children. I would say about no more than 12 percent of the families served included married parents.
When it came to the Black and White staff, living together without benefit of marriage was well represented in both. Many did not see anything wrong with it. Black staff had twice as many out of wedlock births to White staff.
I was blessed to have grown up in a 2 parent family. My parents have been married for 57 years. I am single. I have been tested by the Bible verse about not being unequally yoked. I tried to ignore it once while being aggressively pursued by a non Christian. I am glad the Lord did not let anything come of it.
You would not believe how many (including church going people) ask why I never had any children.
Comment by Bev — 03.29.06 @ 10:37 am
I had to meditate on your comments to really think about what was said and it is so multi dimensional that it takes a couple of responses.
1. Whites although they marry in more numbers are marrying less, so the title is suspect.
2. Here in Atlanta the Black mecca a recent discussion on one of the top black radio stations was Why was the teen out of wedlock births in the black community was decreasing every year while the out of wedlock births for black women 25-35 have doubled in the last 10 years.
Coupled with your stats and the way the world is in general I think that black women want children so they have them without the benefit of marriage.
We as a whole are becoming a nation of single people because of several things.
1. Divorces of the 60’s and 70’s most adults grew up in a divorced family and don’t want to do it again.
2. Economics- many women don’t need a man to have a decent life the obstacles that faced single women in the 50’s and 60’s and 70’s don’t exist anymore she can get a good job, a house, a car all without a man.
3. Society- No matter what Christians say about marriage, society in the US does NOT support marriage as an institution. Therefore even though they say different they (policy) is against it. Thus making it easier for people to opt out. Most people of my generation and I am 37 years old have a bitter taste about marriage. Because most of our parents marriages didn’t work so now you want people to magically want to get married?? It is not going to happen.
I am not hating because by the grace of God I am married and have a wonderful family but I know the flip side too. I’m a Christian and I know that this issue is the fall of our country because we(as a country) are not right. But it is reality. And I feel that we as Christians need to meet people where they are. Love them not judge them and lead them to the real answer- a relationship with Jesus Christ and the rest will fall into place
Comment by Melanie — 03.29.06 @ 10:38 am
La Shawn,
I did not get a chance to get in on the comments on this post when you first put it up, but now that I have had read it, I just HAD to get in a comment. Independent Conservative has most eloquently stated one of the rules I have always lived by. As we have previously discussed, when I make choices about the women I want to spend time with, I look for women who are compatible with me in various ways, not WHITE women who are compatible with me. It cuts out too many wonderful, intelligent and fascinating women (such as yourself, for example) to artificially narrow the pool like that.
I’m glad to see this discussion. If most people would just get rid of the notion that there is some Natural Law about marrying, dating or even just socializing within their own race ONLY they would find their lives so much richer for it.
Comment by Montie — 03.29.06 @ 10:54 am
La Shawn,
As to your LENGTHY post, you cover a wide variety of topics relating to the state of marriage and child rearing in the black community, which I do not really have an ability to comment on, other than to say that having worked as a police officer in this community for over 20 years, I have seen the results of the abandonment of marriage in general and the black community in particular. As a follow on to it, has come the normalization and even idolization of criminal behavior as an accepted way of life which has contributed even more to the problems you frequently discuss.
I have been involved, as kids I first encountered as juveniles, have grown up and become hardcore criminals, finally winding up dead or in prison for the rest of their lives.
Most of them have single mothers who are either too busy with their own criminal behavior to pay attention to what their kids are doing, or so harried with trying to support several children on their own, with no help or child support that even thought they cared a great deal, they just couldn’t manage it alone to stay on top of dealing with a problem child.
Unfortunately, this country as a whole is headed in the wrong direction with regard to the institution of marriage, two parent households, and everything that goes with it.
Comment by Montie — 03.29.06 @ 11:19 am
This is a problem for all races, but has hit the black community the worst. I blame a lot of it on the liberal idea that we should hand out condoms to our children because - well, they’re going to do it anyway. Liberals are fighting against conservatives who want absentinence taught in the schools. What kind of message is that? We have high schools with day care centers, for goodness sake. We have made it so easy for children to have children and for children to have sex without the responsibility that goes along with it. How many parents are raising their grandchildren nowadays? The welfare system makes fathers unnecessary in many ways. We reap what we sow.
You hear more and more of parents allowing their children to have parties in the home where they supply the alcohol because - well, they’re going to do it anyway. Again, what kind of message are we sending to our children.
Parents today are more concerned with their children liking them then behaving like parents.
Comment by Sharon — 03.29.06 @ 11:39 am
I grew up in a working-class Black community during the 70s, virtually every household was headed by married parents, including a huge number of stay-at-home moms…
I came of age in a large Black city during the 80s — single mother families the norm, boys running wild, forming gangs and drug crews…girls attracted to the “Paid In Full” boys from the street crews…
I now live in a predominantly-white community…Dads practicing with their daughter’s softball teams on Sunday…the difference in the value of males and marriage here is astounding…its not Utopia, but the cultural norms are closer to my Black upbringing than what many Black communities now exists as…
Clearly the devaluing of males took hold in the late 60s, and never let up…the BIG MOMMA’S HOUSE family structure (heavily aided by government subsidy –welfare/child support…)is now the PREFERRED black family structure…see Fantasia’s anthem “Baby Mama”…
Marriage will not re-appear with Black folks until market forces become such, where the single Black mother configuration is assiduously avoided rather than celebrated.
Comment by Edward — 03.29.06 @ 1:07 pm
When I was growing up, I remember hearing a particular racist joke on several occasions: “Q: What’s the most confusing day in N-town? A: Father’s Day!”
Humor often derives its power from an element of truth. Thie joke wasn’t very funny even then, of course, but its underlying partial truth bolstered what little ad hominem humor it did provide. Tragically, it’s so true today it’s not funny at all anymore - it’s simply a statement of fact: complete black families by and large, simply do not exist. It’s sadly true that seeing a black father out with his family is an increasingly rare occurence, especially in an urban rather than suburban setting.
Fault lies all over the place, but mostly with a black “culture” and community that not only tolerates black men not being responsible husbands and fathers, but actually celebrates black “men” that refuse to act as men. The hip-hop street culture has only magnified the oddity of the responsible black man - he is no longer welcome, or even tolerated in the new poisonous black culture. “Rap boy” rules, while “a real Daddy” one who stands by his family, is as uncool as it gets. (Not that fatherhood is held in high esteem elsewhere these days, either: When was the last time you saw a really positive portrayal of a father on television, rather than the usual bumbling, bigoted, fool that is the new ubiquitous sterotype?)
I’ve seen this problem magnified in some of the prison ministry work I’ve done: Black men are put in a nearly impossible situation: the virulent racism they face flows far more from blacks than from whites or other races. Many of these men’s hearts are broken, and at least some of them recognize (on the reflection that jail affords) that they really want thier families (even in a broken and shattered state) to be a central part of thier lives. Unfortunately, the “black culture” they live in doesn’t respect, or really even allow or tolerate responsible fathering. Time and again, they get out, wanting ot to be different, but run smack into a culture that *strongly* discourages responsible manhood, and the destructive cycle starts all over again. The dominant black culture tells them they’re supposed to use women as sexual playthings, not relate to them as real people, abuse drugs and alcohol to prove a false manhood, and have the “bling”, slutty women (black or white, but apparently extra points for the latter) and “street cred” at the end of the day to prove they’re “playas”. There is no surer recipe for failure, misery, and shallowness of life.
In today’s black culture, it takes an extraordinarily strong black man to stand up to the culture and actually live his life as a husband and father, a real man, rather than one of the “boyz in the ‘hood”. Sadly, many black men have hardly even seen such a role model, so they have no idea how to proceed, even if they realize they want to.
Unfortunately, as a white man and father, I have little to no credibility at all with black men (other than some of the ones in prison, who yearn to have what I take for granted). My most recent comment here on La Shawn’s board was met with disdain by someone who was incensed that a white guy would comment on racial issues - as if they don’t affect ALL of us! Our culture, our American culture, black, white, and other, the human community that Christ died for is suffering because of a moral and cultural illness that for whatever reasons, disproportionately affects blacks today. It’s in the best interest of all of us to have an honest look at this - it’s not legitimately a racial issue, but it can’t get fixed as long as the racist power brokers continue to uphold thier power through the poisonous chokehold they have on the most oppressive culture in the US today - the hip-hop culture that’s now spilling outside the black community and throughout our society. The increasing feminization of the larger culture and the Politically Correct abandonment of boys and all things masculine only exacerbate the problem. Again, this is not a racial issue, it just happens that the black community finds itself snared by this pack-of-lies culture first.
As Doug Wilson and George Gilder have eloquently pointed out, we need to rebuild a culture that teaches men of all races to be real men and fathers. I’ll be the first to admit I do this badly myself, but it’s taken us a long time to slide this far, and so it will take us a while to climb back. We better get to work.
Comment by Dub Dublin — 03.29.06 @ 1:54 pm
I was reading the comments. They are all very thoughtful. I agree with most of what I read; however, one comment stunned me.
Comment by Eric - 03.29.06 @ 1:00 am.
Eric wrote:”In some large cities black women outnumber black men by more than 30%. (36% in NYC).”
That was shocking. I had know idea that was the case. I decided to look at the US Census data. I looked at Current Population Survey (CPS) Reports 2004, March CPS.
According to the data at birth, black boys out number black girls, 51 percent to 49 percent. It remains that way until age 10. From age, 10 to 19 black boys are 50 percent of that population and black girls are 50 percent of that population. In the age group, 20 to 24 black females are 53 percent of the population and black males are 47 percent of the population. In the age group, 25 to 54 black females are 55 percent of the population and black males are 45 percent of the population.
Some suggest that black women look else where, but there is not surplus in the white population. In the age group, 20 to 54 white females are 50 percent of the population and white males are 50 percent of the population.
Therefore black women still face a world where women out number men. Black women must compete, but how do they compete. So far, what they are doing is not pretty.
Imagine the party of 100 there are always ten women who will have no man. The man knows this so some will decide to have two women or more, why should he limit himself. It is a simple matter of supply and demand.
Black men must stop killing themselves, and end this population distortion. One normally only sees type of population dynamic in a time of war.
Comment by Ellen — 03.29.06 @ 5:18 pm
Thanks for providing such great background and information. Wanted to let you know I linked to it on my blog (trackback didn’t work). I think it’s important for singles to understand the different obstacles we all face - and this is a big one. Thanks for educating us.
fellow Godblogcon participant - j a n
Comment by jan — 03.29.06 @ 11:07 pm
La Shawn, excellent commentary on the Black marriage problem. Your readers might be interested to know that the short book that Jennifer Roback Morse noted, ***God’s Gift, A Christian Vision of Marriage and the Black Family*** can be found at the Seymour Institute at its website http://www.SeymourInstitute.org. It covers all these issues with all the relevant statistics, but in an accessible way, and has a nice visual design too. It offers solutions, too.
Comment by KJohnson — 03.30.06 @ 7:17 am
You had a lot of points, but I just want to address one:
You stated that black women were raised to find an honorable man to take care of them. I find this conclusion interesting in light of Joy’s article. I would think it’s the exact opposite.
My experience has been that black girls have been raised to take care of themselves. Black men have been raised to find a woman to take care of them.
It surprises me that people did not see the feminist argument to Joy’s article. Black women are not the stereotypical woman. If you look at the stats, black women do not need (and in many cases want) a man to take care of them. They have acheived financial independence. But, what they do want is a partner. Here is where the divergence occurs. Because if you are a financially independent black woman, why would you want to marry a man who has multiple babies and multiple babies mamas? You do better on your own. And while there are certainly women who are getting pregnant by these absent-minded men, there are a significant number of women who are doing the right thing. Who are single, educated, and moral. But, there are no black men (whether equally educated or not) who are available to these women. And, if there are, these men have very different views of what a wife should be (from my own personal experience, I’ve been told from black men that their wife must be a mother (to them!), a housekeeper, a cook, a babysitter, and a slut).
Who wants that? I wasn’t raised to be treated in such a manner and neither were my friends. We are all highly sucessfuly black women. We have standards and long ago realized that our upbringing pushed us out of the marriage market.
In any case, my point is this: I think your commentary does not address the issue of how black girls and black boys are raised differently. One group is raised to strive to do better for herself, the other to believe that he is so special that someone should do better for him.
Comment by Reese — 03.30.06 @ 8:27 am
Hey, Reese those are odd comments unless you think black women are not human beings.
“…black women do not need (and in many cases want) a man to take care of them. They have achieved financial independence. But, what they do want is a partner.”
“…these men have very different views of what a wife should be (from my own personal experience, I’ve been told from black men that their wife must be a mother (to them!), a housekeeper, a cook, a babysitter, and a slut).”
“…I think your commentary does not address the issue of how black girls and black boys are raised differently. One group is raised to strive to do better for herself, the other to believe that he is so special that someone should do better for him.”
Your comments are really sad and very disrespect of black men. Do you know any? I mean to write such negative generalities about a population of over 17,497,000 human beings are truly ridiculous. (I am just including black American men, it is even sillier when one thinks of all the black men on the planet.)
Of course, black women need black men. Are you advocating genocide? Do you imagine that black children do not need their fathers? Do you really think little black girls do not need daddies? Who will help black boys to become men if not their fathers? Can you really look at the condition of the black community and say black women are doing fine on their own? Can you truly be that materialistic? Do you not realize there is much more to life then what is in your bank account?
I got married at age of 39. I already owned my own home; I did not have any children from previous relationships. I never had an abortion. I had been celibate for over 15 years. I consider my wonderful husband to be a blessing from God. I need him in always. He is my companion, my friend, my lover: We are to each other all things God spoke of the Genesis 2:18-24. It is my pleasure to cook for him, to housekeep and to watch our beautiful daughter grow. He shares my values and he does not have children from previous relationships. Not all men are the same. Men are not generalities they are human beings.
You truly do not know what you are missing.
Speaking of being raised I was raise by two loving parents. My brothers sought wives not mothers. My brothers are grown men; their mother raised them. They certainly did not need or want wives to raise them.
Some black women would do well to learn how to treat the men available to them with respect, and admiration. I am please to have two wonderful sisters-in-law. They both happen to be white. (I wonder why.)
You cannot complete if you do not appreciate a man for the special human being he is. Yes men and women are different. We are meant to complement each other not complete and strive against each other.
If all you see in a man is, what material possessions he can provide for you, you are already lost.
Comment by Ellen — 03.30.06 @ 10:01 am
Ellen,
I think you totally missed the point of what Reese was trying to say and let’s not forget she is speaking from HER experience.
I’m a 32 year old black women who understands EXACTLY where she is coming from.
And I agree that what she is saying is true in some but not all cases, because there are so many single mom homes, both black boys and girls are not shown the APPROPRIATE way to become productive black men and women. Women are overly masculinized and men are overly feminized due to lack of role models in the home.
I am fortunate to come from a two parent home where though my mother is a an educated women who chose to work, I was shown how to be able to succeed as an individual and how to succeed as a woman. My brother has been encouraged by my father to emulate positive male qualities.
Everyone is not so fortunate to have that these days.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 03.30.06 @ 10:48 am
Tiffany I do not really think I missed Reese’s point. I think she made gross generalizations about black men and black women. Of course, what she said is true of some men and women.
However, her comments like:
“You stated that black women were raised to find an honorable man to take care of them. I find this conclusion interesting in light of Joy’s article. I would think it’s the exact opposite.”
“…black women do not need (and in many cases want) a man to take care of them. They have acheived financial independence.”
were not tempered as your comments are by writing some black men or some black women. Additionally, she seems to miss completely the point of marriage. So did the writer of the article.
Marriage is not about what you get; it is about what you give. It is in the giving that one receives blessings. Trust me I know it hard out there. We black women must hold ourselves safe, and look for men who appreciate us. However, do not write a comment that implies that all black men are trifling fools, and that we are better off without them that type of comment is simply a lie.
Instead, pray that the Lord sends you a wonderful loving man. Try to keep your heart open. Do not become so bitter that you come to believe: I do not need or