Update II: Illegal Immigration From A Biblical Point of View
One more thing: no matter what you think of Rush Limbaugh, you need to listen to him on this immigration issue. He always, always makes me feel better when I’m this angry. He might do the same for you. Listen online here.
Update (3/30): Michelle Malkin has more info about our “undocumented” workers.
Also see Pro-Enforcement, Not Anti-Immigrant , Illegal Aliens Threated U.S. Health System, FAIR, Internet Pilot Program, and last but most important — one way to discourage idiotic businesses that hire illegal aliens is to sue them under RICO.
Focusing all of our energy on border jumpers won’t solve the problem. We need to put pressure of businesses, report the ones who hire illegal aliens, generate some press - something. Visit We Hire Aliens, and do what you can do.
Also see A Nation of Outlaws, Part I and Part II.
————————————————————————————————-
I’m trying to calm down before I blog about the illegal alien protests. (Leo Jarzomb/Staff photo via Michelle Malkin)
That takes nerve, mis amigos, gathering in large groups to protest in a foreign country, which you entered in violation of that country’s federal law. Surrounded by law enforcement officials who ought to haul you in and ship you back to the Third World hole from which you came, you’ve got the cojones to demand rights. In my country.
I’ve got your rights right here: You have the RIGHT to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you…
Lord, I hope you haven’t foreordained my election to office. I can see the snipers now, lined up at the windows, ready to strike me down for advocating the immediate deportation of illegal ingrates mocking my country’s laws and giving the American people a collective finger. Dónde está George Bush? Right here.
I’ll be back. 
Later…In Part I of Guests or gate crashers, Thomas Sowell writes:
The Bush administration is pushing a program to legalize “guest workers.” But what is a guest? Someone you have invited. People who force their way into your home without your permission are called gate crashers.
…
We could solve the problem of all illegal activity anywhere by legalizing it. Why use this approach only with immigration? Why should any of us pay a speeding ticket if immigration scofflaws are legalized after the fact for committing a federal crime?
Read Part II.
Even later…Robbie of Urban Grounds writes in comments:
I’m actually all in favor of giving California back to Mexico. Especially San Francisco.
But so long as they understand that with the return of CA to Mexico, they also lose all of the benefits they had been enjoying as (illegal) residents of the United States — world class health care, free schools, being employed by American companies for American dollars, etc.
Sorry, but you can’t have Texas back.
I concur. They can have California, especially San Francisco.
Next day…Debra Saunders:
Of course America needs immigrants. This is a country founded by immigrants and made richer by the imprint of newcomers in search of a land that rewards their hard work and determination to make a better life for their families.
The problem is that no country — certainly, no country with a social safety net — can afford to accommodate everyone who wants in. (Or as Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., put it, “We cannot be the HMO to the world.”) That’s why there are immigration policies that limit the number of people who can immigrate here legally.
The lack of an open-door policy has spawned this week’s victim class, illegal or “undocumented” immigrants, who have flouted American law and apparently believe they should not have to pay the consequences of that choice.
In Dallas, students have been cutting classes and, yesterday, invading city offices, as part of their protests. Almost every single one of them is a citizen, many by virtue of the fact that their illegal immigrant parents birthed them in this country. One particularly galling incident reported by the local press was of one of the protesters, an 15 year-old girl, who wrapped herself in an American flag, then was taunted and assualted by other teenage protesters who waived Mexican flags and derided her for being “too American.” Incidents such as these boil the emotions and could lead to a severe backlash.
Comment by Kevin — 03.29.06 @ 12:47 pm
Fine the employers and eliminate the desire for illegal cheap labor.
Comment by Ralph — 03.29.06 @ 12:49 pm
I don’t think I’ve ever seen you so angry.
Not that I don’t disagree or anything. :o(
Comment by Jewels — 03.29.06 @ 12:57 pm
ARGHH!!! and I had calmed down for today. George Bush is about to go down and drink Pina Colata (sp) with the real Vice President of the US…Vicente Fox.
Comment by Renee — 03.29.06 @ 12:58 pm
I hear you sister. I have Mexican in-laws. My brother married a Mexican lady who was born here and a treasure. She is a great woman. She knows of stories along the lines of the protestors. Because of my love for her and a fondness for her family, I am all ears for the different ideas being proposed.
However …
To completely disrespect a country that has given SO much that it didn’t have to give is beyond the pail. These protests are completely out of line and have done more to hurt their arguments than help actually find a solution. My family (in-laws would never do such a thing… I don’t think.)
For those that cannot find it within themselves to respect the US, I am all for sending them back. Right now.
Comment by Randy — 03.29.06 @ 1:10 pm
The logic of these protesters is compelling: we didn’t cross the border - it crossed us; return CA to Mexico, etc.
Obviously, we also need to return Alaska to the Russians and Louisiana to the French. Oh, and then hand the old thirteen colonies back to England. Though, if England can’t even manage dental work properly, I doubt they’ll be up to taking over Massachusetts and all (which is kind of a pity).
Comment by Christopher — 03.29.06 @ 1:16 pm
Hmm. These protesters seem to think that CA and the rest of the southwest should be handed over to Mexico. Perhaps we should hand over Alaska to the Russians and Louisiana to the French?
Maybe we could give Massachusetts (complete with the Kerrys and the Kennedys) back to England?
Comment by Christopher — 03.29.06 @ 1:18 pm
From a Biblical perspective this all makes sense and has been explained (any country that does not what to exercise authority and law and order will fall) but when I step back and look at this in the flesh…
Where are the so called “black leaders”? Black ancestors DIED for the right to be treated like citizens (which they already were) and to label anyone who is against ILLEGAL immigrants getting a free ride as racist is just as evil as those who compare homosexual civil rights to being black…
(not to mention when Hillary Clinton compares illegal immigrants to the Good Samaritan and the Lord Christ himself… her words are straight from the pit but an argument for another day)…
UNBELIEVABLE!!!
America may not be ready for it but her race war is coming.
Comment by Renee — 03.29.06 @ 1:29 pm
La Shawn,
Like you, these protests are really getting my blood boiling. One of the most galling things for me is the flaunting of the Mexican flag and the degradation of the U.S. flag that has accompanied many of the protests. It goes to the whole attitude of many of the illegals who never even try to assimilate into the U.S. culture. They refuse to learn English as so many immigrants to this country have done for the last couple of centuries, they bankrupt local hospitals by forcing emergency rooms to serve in the fuction of general practitioners and never pay a dime for services, and they tie up law enforcement in dealing with the inevitable criminals who accompany the “hard workers” across the border.
Many illegals who have come here with the genuine intention of seeking a better life, resent being lumped in with the types of people who come to this country and are nothing but a drain on the system, yet they themselves are the first to defend and protect such people.
Comment by Montie — 03.29.06 @ 1:44 pm
I agree with you 100%. I don’t understand why this is such a hard issue to understand or why so many feel it needs to be analyzed. If you aren’t here legally.. get out. If you think there are issues with the legal immigration process, fix it don’t break the law.
Renee: Um.. huh? What do “black leaders” and a “race war” have to do with illegal immigration? That came from way out in left field and I really have no clue what you’re trying to say or how it’s even relevant.
Comment by Thomas — 03.29.06 @ 1:52 pm
Thomas..
Perhaps if you paid attention that blacks and mexicans have already been going at it in LA over this issue in the past few weeks …you may understand…
Comment by Renee — 03.29.06 @ 1:57 pm
This is a country of laws, rather than men. Most of these people were lawbreakers even before they broke our laws. Remember the Cubans that Castro allowed to enter our country about 15 years ago? They were the criminals he didn’t want. I agree with legal immigration. Maybe we should increase the number allowed per year. Starting your life by breaking the law is not good.
Comment by Chief RZ — 03.29.06 @ 2:01 pm
The Upside-Down flag was what really angered me. Many of these idiots know what Mexico is like yet want Califa to become part of that failed state. Crazy.
Comment by Rancher — 03.29.06 @ 2:11 pm
Interesting article on the racial tensions that are growing (or have developed) between blacks and hispanics over the illegal immigrant. More truthful would be to say all Americans
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/stateof/hutchinson224
Comment by Renee — 03.29.06 @ 2:15 pm
Ungrateful and Disrespectful
Me and a few of my brothers would like to see you try to come and hoist your flag above these Flags. Not only do I know you wouldn’t be abel to, but I’ll be you don’t even have the huevos to try.
Trackback by UrbanGrounds — 03.29.06 @ 2:21 pm
I’m PO’ed as well as everyone here at the protesters,but,my raft is not just with them it is with our spineless and brainless politicians that I’ve had it up to my eyeballs with,they have kissed these people’s butts for so long and now look at the problem that our elites have created but never have had to suffer the consequences of.Also,these thugs and crimanals that are complaining,about returning land to Mexico,why should we,Since the Socialists and soon to be Communists take over of that land has ruined it financially and morally don’t these boneheads realize that all their doing is importing their failures on our country to bare now.That is all Vicente Fox is doing!also,it is time for Black folks wake and face the music and stop listening to our deceitful politicans on this issue,there is no brotherhood between as the radicals;For the left in this country who think will receive votes and are just pandering and the GOP are trying to get by with cheap labor!I got news for both groups just in case they don’t realize it,both of you are guilty of promoting slavery!!That’s all it is and you too afraid to admit it.Also,look at the sophistry being praccticed buy our lefty media again on this and their complete whitewashing of this story and again putting American lives in danger!All of us have seen the Mexican flags being waved verses American Flags,and I have even read where Tammy Bruce has even said they’ve burned our flags!Why hide this?The only way the elites will learn in this country of who actually runs this country is we Americans about 30 to 50 million our citizens began a grass roots movement saying that we are not going to pay taxes and also finally get our consumer adddiction under control staying away from the stores,on a particular day,these folks would change their tunes in a New York minute,it can be done,because neither party is concerned and the beuracracy have proven that they can’t be trusted to handle serious matters such as this,althought that is what The Constitution has mandated that they do,and it isn’t like your IRS has that many people that they can hound like that and what can law enforcement do when they have proven themselves to be the modern version of the Keystone Cops how are they gonna handle that many millions of people who decide to hold the purse strings?Since these same people claim that they can’t deport these illegals what do they look like coming after us?They should hear this loud and clear,and after we do this we the people should be doing the impeachment hearings,not Congresss,since they refuse to go by the law,they shouldn’t be over the laws of the land,what sense does that make if you have proven incompetent,impetent,and cowardly for a special interest group that is nothing but danger for our country!also,these idiots forget that that is how the terrorists hijackers manage to get here and do what they did so easily!
Comment by Lisa Gilliam — 03.29.06 @ 2:23 pm
I’m actually all in favor of giving California back to Mexico. Especially San Francisco.
But so long as they understand that with the return of CA to Mexico, they also lose all of the benefits they had been enjoying as (illegal) residents of the United States — world class health care, free schools, being employed by American companies for American dollars, etc.
Sorry, but you can’t have Texas back.
Comment by Robbie — 03.29.06 @ 2:30 pm
Hollywood goes too right??
Then they don’t have to threaten to move out of the country during the next elections, we can help them on their way.
Comment by Renee — 03.29.06 @ 2:35 pm
For 6 years now, President Bush has blatantly pertetuated the lie that Americans won’t do certain jobs. For 6 years now, the Associated Press, the mainstream media, and our elected officials haven’t (not one single time) demanded he tell us exactly what jobs Americans find so reprehensible. The time has come for President Bush to tell us specifically, once and for all.
How can we debate a guest worker program if we don’t even know what jobs qualify under the program? Nobody will tell us. If we can get President Bush on record listing say 10 professions that Americans won’t do, we can gather labor statistics from those industries and pinpoint the total labor needed to fulfill every position available within those industries.
Comment by bucktowndusty — 03.29.06 @ 2:43 pm
The Only Protest In America That Should Be Illegal
It is amazing the nerve that illegal aliens have to organize a protest demanding rights to live in the country into which they were never invited. I don’t get it. Actually, I’m not sure what I am more amazed at, that they are doing it or that they ar…
Trackback by David C. Price's Espresso Roast Blog — 03.29.06 @ 2:51 pm
Renee: Thank you for the clarification. I don’t totally agree with the article, but it does make some good points and now I understand what you were trying to say.
For the record (not that anyone here doubted it) if we gave any state back I would vote for Texas, but it has to be during one of the 30 weeks of the year that W is back there on vacation so he goes with it.
Comment by Thomas — 03.29.06 @ 2:59 pm
Thomas,
I need to apologize because I came off rude in presenting my first answer to your question about where I was coming from. Please forgive me for that. Regarding the article, I don’t agree with all of it either but it does point out another negative that is coming from us allowing the laws to be broken. No good can come from allowing laws to be broken (two wrongs never make a right:-))
Comment by Renee — 03.29.06 @ 3:11 pm
Illegal Ingrates: I’ve got your rights right here: You have the RIGHT to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you…
Pingback by Spacecraft — 03.29.06 @ 3:27 pm
03 29 06
Hey there:
That is harsh. They Do NOT OWN CALIFORNIA! They make a big stink here due to presence in large numbers, but have little affect on policy here. It is the moonbat senators like Boxer and Miss Pelosi that are screwing up our state! Also, the businesses who hire illegals are contributing to the problem.And as much as I think immediate deportation makes sense, we have to figure out the fiscal impact and the total DRAIN that would cause on our systems. A comprehensive strategy is needed to fortify our borders and then to deport illegals with the least possible costs to our infrastructure.
Hopefully this can be accomplished. I have read that illegal immigrants keep the development of new technologies from emerging because they keep everything stuck in a manual labor mode. Of course, the cheap jerks who hire them contribute to this cycle as well. But both of them really affect wage structures etc in local economies. Example? Central Valley in Ca.
Comment by mahndisa — 03.29.06 @ 3:33 pm
Damn straight, La Shawn!
I have to say though, I am more upset with the handling of the situation than I am with the illegals. Our country will only get as much respect as it demands.
Comment by Christine Inauen — 03.29.06 @ 3:34 pm
Look you folks are an earful. Why are you getting mad at people who are coming to this country for a better life. Isnt that what america is all about. Isn’t that why the Pilgrims, puritans, quakers, english, Irish, Italians, Germans, came here. Whatever happen to “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,”. Look there is a very simple way to stop illegal migration ( well maybe not stop it but greatly reduce it). Why not toughen and vigorously enforce penalties against, US companies that hire people that cant prove citizenship. If companies would completely stop hiring illegal aliens then their would be no reason for them to come here, as there would be no jobs. Isn’t it kind of phony to blame Mexicans for coming to this country to work illegally when American companies are more than willing to hire illegal aliens, (What about the laws being broking by american companies in order to secure cheap.
P.S I just wanna to say that Ive looked into my crystal ball and Ive seen what’s about to go down. According to crystal ball we will manage to send the massed legions of undocumented immigrants home, thats good, however expect a steep climb in the price of produce as the cheapest labor source to pick Americas produce have been driven back across the Rio grandee, my crystal ball is showing me grapes priced at $10.00 a pound, thats bad. Cheers Mark
Comment by mark bey — 03.29.06 @ 3:50 pm
Mark you have one thing correct…
if you want to see American’s revert to lawlessness (break laws for any reason)…
just threaten their comfortable lifestyle… they’ll justify anything to not feel discomfort (especially in the wallet).
Definitely shows where our priorities and loyalties lay.
Comment by Renee — 03.29.06 @ 3:56 pm
This is classic…
On Fox they are interviewing someone from Indiana who recommends drafting dead beat dad’s (that the government is paying for their kids anyway with welfare and other programs) to work the border watch…
That’s my kind of idea
Comment by Renee — 03.29.06 @ 4:09 pm
It’s my choice to pay $10 for a pound of grapes, but I don’t have to eat grapes. And I don’t have to vote for Sam Brownback the next time he comes up either. Really a dang shame as I like Brownback, but I will not vote again for a man who does not represent the people. LaShawn, we’re waiting for you here in Kansas.
Comment by dianne — 03.29.06 @ 4:19 pm
Once More for the Record, Many of Them Don’t Want to be Loyal Americans!
My fellow Conservative bloggers are fuming today. Because during some of the protest in favor of illegal immigration the US flag is being disrespected. I’ve mentioned before that I see Mexicans in this country all the time that are not express…
Trackback by Independent Conservative — 03.29.06 @ 4:30 pm
What makes is so bad is that something could be done, but wont be done. People in power, namely Bush, could change it RIGHT NOW, but won’t.
It is easy to implement immediate actions to remedy this situation, but because of big money and big business, it just wont be done.
And thats the worse part of it.
Comment by lukeNC — 03.29.06 @ 4:38 pm
THANK YOU LA SHAWN!
God bless people like La Shawn and Michelle Malkin and Lou Dobbs who represent the 200 million+ of us who actually vote and pay taxes and are fed up with this.
I only hope that we can do this while we (the law-abiding, law-respecting, taxpaying citizens) are still in the majority in the US.
Comment by rightonpeachtree — 03.29.06 @ 4:47 pm
Mark: Why are you getting mad at people who are coming to this country for a better life.
We’re getting mad at people who are coming to this country ILLEGALLY for a better life. Big difference.
I don’t blame any of the illegal immigrants for wanting to come, I blame them for breaking our laws and demanding rights that they don’t have. I place the biggest blame on the government for not enforcing immigration laws. The second biggest blame goes to companies who hire illegal immigrants; they should all be prosecuted.
Comment by Thomas — 03.29.06 @ 4:48 pm
Students Protest Illegal Immigration Bill
[I]f these ingrates think that Mexico’s so great that it deserves more respect up on an American high school’s flag pole, than they should go back to Mexico!
Trackback by Donkey Stomp — 03.29.06 @ 4:55 pm
“It’s my choice to pay $10 for a pound of grapes, but I don’t have to eat grapes”, Diane
True Diane it is your choice to eat grapes, water melons, or Star Fruit at highly inflated prices or not eat them at highly inflated prices. But that still does not change the fact that american companies, who benifit from the greatest economic system in the history of the world are breaking the laws of that system. They are just as guilty as the illegal aliens. No, thier more guilty because if US companies wouldnt break the law we wouldnt have this immigration issue going on. It seems that us americans have selective reasoning quite often. I think its hypocrytical to demonize the people sneaking into america to work, especially when Us companies encourage this activity, so that they may fatten thier profits off of cheap labor. If americans want the immigrants gone why not enforce the existing laws, and then heavily fine companies that hire illegal immigrants. Mark
Comment by mark bey — 03.29.06 @ 5:04 pm
Support the Minute Man Project!
Comment by Rancher — 03.29.06 @ 5:14 pm
It’s at this point that I don’t think there could be any more….but…they keep on coming… • Donkey Stomp: Students Protest Illegal Immigration Bill • Cake or Death: Disturbing the peace isn’t a right. It’s a crime. And I’m glad to see LA mayor Villarigosa at least paying lip service to that idea.
Pingback by MacStansbury.org — 03.29.06 @ 5:22 pm
Ole Glory Insulted on American Soil
… as there are American soldiers, Marines, sailors, and airmen currently putting their lives in danger in order to provide these “citizens” the comfort of knowing that their protests will not result in being lined up against a wall and executed for…
Trackback by Church and State — 03.29.06 @ 5:23 pm
Sorry, LaShawn. I won’t let them take San Francisco. My family came here–legally–a long time ago and have worked too hard to return it.
I agree with Mahndisa (#24). Boxer & Pelosi are immigrants from New York–they don’t speak for me! (Neither does Mark Leno, another recent “migrant.”)
What ticks me off is that amnesty insults the many people I know who have waited for years to bring their families here LEGALLY. People who are educated, literate in English, and who are NOT protesting in the streets or burning American flags, threatening “reconquista.”
Comment by March Hare — 03.29.06 @ 5:47 pm
Stupidity knows no bounds…
Bob Novak, being interviewed on Fox News, was perplexed as to where the students got all these Mexico flags (he just couldn’t believe that so many of them who are born here and thus American citizens would have them and carry them). Then in stupid remark number two, he says he is not for sending back 11 million illegals BUT we should be troubled when students (many of which were US citizens) carried foreign flags and that perhaps their loyalties lie with a foreign power…Ya Think Bob?? Do ya really think???
Why are we so surprised … it’s called the curse of American - Hyphenism (African American, Hispanic American, Asian American…etc., etc.).
Comment by Renee — 03.29.06 @ 5:56 pm
Thanks Ari…
it was only a matter of time before someone equates being black and a slave to the plight of an illegal border jumper…
“cannot believe that you tell Mexicans to go back to their “Third World hole,†when just 60 years ago African Americans were told to go back to the jungle.”
Comment by Renee — 03.29.06 @ 6:05 pm
Now, now, La Shawn, you have to cut them some slack.
If basically you are dealing with a country that has one group of so-called “officials” that basically say, “Shame, shame on you for sneaking over that fence,” and another group of “citizens” and/or “business owners” who are basically saying, “Just jump over that fence and I’ll make you AND your family richer than you could ever imagine …”, which group are you going to follow?
No, the WORKERS should get amnesty. The people PAYING them should be summarily executed.
Comment by Axinar — 03.29.06 @ 6:40 pm
Ari : “I cannot believe that you tell Mexicans to go back to their “Third World hole,†when just 60 years ago African Americans were told to go back to the jungle……”No. Blacks were considered the bastard children of slaves who were not citizens
Huh?
You, are talking utter rubbish.
I don’t care if some trailer trash somewhere did not “consider” African Americans as citizens or not.
The fact of the matter is, African Americans WERE citizens.
Those illegal Mexicans invaders are simply NOT citizens.
This is not a country which is governed by what somebody may or may not “consider”.
This country is governed BY LAW.
Get it?
As for the, vicious, rabid mob of illegal Mexican aliens that took to the streets to burn and spit on the American flag, while breaking our laws by being in this country illegally, and carrying out some of the worst crimes in the country, the less said about these suckers the better.
I think I will hold fire on what I really think of these people…for now.
It’s now clearer than ever,r that we simply cannot afford to let these rabid America-haters stay in this country.
Every effort must be made to make sure that our elected representatives do what they were elected todo, by making sure the Ted Kennedy inspired vote by the US Senate Committee to somehow allow these law breaking individuals to stay in this country, does NOT become law.
Comment by Smithy — 03.29.06 @ 6:42 pm
Thanks for responding to Ari’s comment, but he/she was escorted off the blog and won’t be joining us anymore.
Comment by La Shawn — 03.29.06 @ 6:45 pm
The Melting Pot Only Melts What Goes In It
Immigration takes on many forms,
but to some, it means;
Infinite
Masses
Marching
In,
Generally
Refusing
Altogether
To
Incorporate
Our
Norms
Comment by Buck — 03.29.06 @ 6:50 pm
“The fact of the matter is, African Americans WERE citizens.”
I never said they weren’t. The fact remains, however, that much of the country at that time was violently and blatantly racist and thought that African Americans should never have been freed.
Oh, and I don’t see why my comment was deleted; correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think I was insulting anyone…
Comment by Ari — 03.29.06 @ 6:54 pm
I dunno. Maybe I did hurt somebody. I’m sorry if I offended you, LaShawn, or anyone else. I tried hard to make my comment non-offensive, but I can see how someone might have been angry at my sarcasm. I might’ve been a bit too vitriolic. I apologize.
Anyway, though, I am most certainly not for illegal immigration; I despise the fact that these people are rioting and they’re not even American citizens. The fact that they have the nerve to go out and insult Bush and America when they’re leeching off our services and they barely *live* here is ridiculous.
Great blog, by the way; I agree with much of what you write. No offense, but what annoyed me was the fact that you seemed very anti-Mexican in general in the post. (Please don’t delete this for the above sentence, by the way.)
Comment by Ari — 03.29.06 @ 7:13 pm
La Shawn Barber could not have said how I feel any better. Here’s an excerpt: That takes nerve, mis amigos, gathering in large groups to protest in a foreign country, which you entered in violation of that country’s federal law. Surrounded by law enforcement officials who ought to haul you in and ship you back to the Third World hole from which you came, you’ve got the cojones to demand rights. In my country.
Pingback by Patrick Lacson — 03.29.06 @ 7:13 pm
Hey! Still lots of God-fearing conservatives trying to keep California afloat here. In fact, lots of us believe maybe we should let Great Britain have Washington, D.C. which spends more of our money than we do.
Comment by SickAndTired — 03.29.06 @ 8:54 pm
If you’ve been reading this blog for more than a few days, you’d know that I allow dissenting views. My entire blog, going all the way back to November 2003, is its own defense. If you can’t handle it, move along to one of the other millions of blogs, “reddy/vik.”. - Admin
Comment by reddy — 03.29.06 @ 9:09 pm
The diseases: I read an article that said TB is increasing, and being brought in by foreigners. Also, diseases that we haven’t seen in years like mumps and rubella, which were supposed to have been eradicated…..are now making a return, thanks to illegal immigration. All these restaurants that hire potentially diseased illegals…..—touching your food.
Scary.
Comment by glamchild — 03.29.06 @ 10:46 pm
A Couple of Thoughts on the Illegal Immigration Issue
I had a good conversation with a my good friend Keith Plummer about the illegal immigration issue today and basically I came to the conclusion that I don’t know enough to talk intelligently about the political and legal issues involved.
Trackback by JOLLYBLOGGER — 03.29.06 @ 10:47 pm
We have a strange language in America. Terrorists in Iraq are called “insurgents”, “rebels”, and “freedom fighters”, special privilege is called “civil rights”, gay and lesbian unions are called “marriages”, speech codes and kangaroo courts on US campuses are called “tolerance” and “diversity”, blatant lying is called “professional journalism”. No wonder illegal immigrants are called “undocumented workers” - it fits the doublethink of the Far Left.
Comment by Mwalimu Daudi — 03.29.06 @ 11:00 pm
Woohoo! you go girl! Wow are you fired up! I don’t blame you though, I feel the same way.
Comment by Bonnie Calhoun — 03.29.06 @ 11:24 pm
Please, decent people live here in SF, we really do.
Comment by Karen Bowe — 03.30.06 @ 12:18 am
A few points: Illegals wouldn’t be here if we weren’t offering them jobs. It’s card-carrying Republicans who give them these jobs with full-knowledge they’re illegal.
Therefore, all the complaints above are directed at the wrong people. The people behind the construction industry, the food service industry, the hotel industry, who seek whirlwind profits — not living wages — are your culprits.
The distinction is important. A pro-immigrant bill will pass not because of the massive protests we’ve been having lately, but because the owner of your local Burger King contributed $100,000 to his Congressman’s campaign last year for a pro-guest worker bill.
And black folks have no say in this at all. If we took the jobs, worked as hard, and pulled ourselves out of the lower economic strata as we should have done decades ago, we’d be the ones supporting a pro-guest worker bill too.
These people turn themselves in one generation — less! In Atlanta, illegal immigrants own more small businesses than black folks. Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez’s parents were illegals.
The fact is, illegal immigrants are turning our economy around. They’re making it a boom economy. This happened 100 years ago, and it’s happening today. Send them all back and we’ll have the worst depression this country has ever seen; businesses will fail everywhere. Your job will be on the chopping block. You’ll be begging them to return.
We need them, and sure, they’re rubbing our noses in it, but we still need them.
What goes around comes around. We stole CA, New Mexico, etc, from the Latinos, now it’s payback time.
You reap what your sow …
ricland
Comment by ricland — 03.30.06 @ 2:17 am
I have seen more anger in the blogosphere about illegal immigrant issue than any other. When someone desecrates the American flag the way these protesters did is unconscionable. To live in this country, to work in this country, to enjoy all of the freedoms that people in other countries can only dream about is just plain….wrong. (Can’t find a strong enough word here)
I like your term for them: illegal ingrates. Very fitting.
Comment by Chuck W. — 03.30.06 @ 2:17 am
By the way, this question of “illegals” is a false one. It has no more merit than our former Jim Crow or runaway slave laws.
Your problem is not with them being scofflaws; we know this because the people who hire them are fellow Americans like you. In fact, if you were a farmer or a construction developer you’d hire them too.
Don’t waste your time denying this. You’d hire them in a heartbeat if your business depended on it.
Which begs the quetion what is your REAL problem with the protests?
Histoy shows we attack immigrants whether they’re legal or not.
Remember those signs: “Irish and Dogs need not apply.”
No, they are now de facto “legal” immigrants, which is the way law works — something becomes status quo, it becomes de facto legal, no matter what’s on the books.
In other words, the protests were bound to happen. We can’t have it both ways. It’s like the mistress who confronts her lover: “Make me an honest woman or there’s going to be trouble.”
We have the same choice: either we make them legal or there’s going to be trouble … like the economy.
ricland
Comment by ricland — 03.30.06 @ 2:39 am
This is a joke right? Americans love illegal aliens.Who else can they get to cut their lawns, care for their children and paint their houses, all for less than $100… lol?
Were this not an election year you would hear no grumblings from the politicians or the public at large.But because it is an election year, America needs some po colored folk to blame for all their problems and the Mexicans are the perfect scapegoat.
Illegals will never go away because the rich elite use these people to help keep them wealthy.Illegals don’t get health care or dental, thus allowing the wealthy to pocket money they would have to spend if they hired Americans.
This entire crusade is for show.
Comment by Dana — 03.30.06 @ 3:38 am
I have to agree with Dana here. This has been going on for at least two decades with no real results. I’m thinking Reagan also tried to impose some strict law or guest worker program that wasnt really been enforced back then either.
Election year politics, once that passes, its back to status quo. Brown-skinned illegal immigrants are an easy scapegoat.
Its the perfect situation for business. Kinda like slavery. They have no rights, are paid paltry sums of money, have no benefits. Of course business and gov’t wants to want to keep things “as is”. Its my belief that cheap borrowing and cheap labor is keeping our economy afloat right now.
Recent quote from conservative Elizabeth Dole, R-NC. “We defintely want to do something about illegal immigration, but we dont want to wreck our economy!” That means leave things “as is”.
I can speak some spanish so that gives me more people to witness too. I dont have to there, God is bringing them here!
So, wake me up when this is over….*yawn*
Comment by lukeNC — 03.30.06 @ 8:20 am
A Chance For A Better Life
This is a tough issue, emotionally charged for some, irrelevant to others and an excuse for the remainder to eagerly pull out the racism card. LA Shawn bloggs on the issue, after she took some tranquilizers:
Trackback by All Things Beautiful — 03.30.06 @ 9:12 am
“I can speak some spanish so that gives me more people to witness too. I dont have to there, God is bringing them here!”
So God is making them break the law along with the companies who hire them…
I missed that command in the Bible
Comment by Renee — 03.30.06 @ 9:20 am
19. Bucktowndusty,
here are the top industries that illegals are working in and their percentage of that industry. You will note that in no case are they the majority of employees. Which shoots the argument that they do jobs Americans won’t do down.
Drywall and Ceiling Tile Installers 27%
Landscaping Services 26%
Domestic Help (Maids/Housekeepers) 22%
Roofers 21%
Animal Slaughter and Processing 20%
Hotel Industry 13%
Food Service 11%
Agriculture 11%
Construction 10%
24. Mahndisa,
So far there has been no comprihensive study to my knowledge dealing strictly with illegal immigrants and wage depression but I can give you the results of a Harvard study on non-native born immigration and the wage loses of native born for the years 1980-2000. High school dropouts lost 7.4% of their income. High school graduates lost 2.4%. Those with some college lost 2.3%. College graduates lost 3.1%. Now if you notice the biggest loses occur at the unskilled/low skilled level. Which directly correlates with the highest skill level numbers of illegal immigrants. And a really good example of the lack of inovation in an indutry and low cost labor is the tomato farmers. Just before the end of the borecos era tomato producers claimed that ending illegal immigration would destroy their industry. What actually happened was without the cheap labor tomato farmers and to find new inovative ways to harvest their crops. They did and the tomato farmers have never looked back. Logic would dictate that business will not spend money on inovation and new production technics until they have financial reasons to do so.
26 Mark Bey. You miss the point sadly. Legal Immigration is fine. Illegal Immigration is a crime. You point out that they are just looking for a better life. So in your opinion that makes it okay? If so then drug dealers who just want a better life are okay? What about robbers who just want a better life? Embezzlers? Human Trafficers? Wanting a better life does not justify breaking the law.
But I do agree with you that employers need to be punsished for breaking the law. A huge fine for the first offense and prison for the second. But jus dealing with employers alone is not enough just like dealing with the border alone is not enough. There needs to be a complete approach. And as far as $10 a pound grapes doubtful. Economic forces would cause either inovation in the harvesting or demand would shrink so that $10 a pound grapes would be acceptable to those who truely desire them. The market effect of supply and demand at work.
56,58,59,60
I am amazed that you don’t get it. There is no dispute that big business and rich elites like slave labor. That does not make it right. You claim that deporting the illegals aliens would devistate our economy? Yet we Officially have 7.6 million umemployed citizens. Unofficially the number would at least double. All that it would mean for business is they would have to pay a living wage and cut into their profits.While the high profile news about illegal immigration has been recent the real ground swell has been building for those two decades. And to the Atlanta person how do these new business men manage to open businesses on the slave wages you claim they get?
The bottom line is regardless of why they violate the laws illegal immigrants, the businesses that hire them and the politicians who curry their favor need to realize that the average American is getting angry over this issue and to ignore it or reward lawbreaking will have a huge backlash for years to come
Comment by James — 03.30.06 @ 9:24 am
A chance for a better life…
umm, the bible has another definition…COVETOUSNESS
Comment by Renee — 03.30.06 @ 9:24 am
We should also be sure to remember that many of these are High School students. I remember doing protests in High School, it was a great excuse to cut class. Case in point from the the Houston Cronicle:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3758105.html
Comment by Rick — 03.30.06 @ 10:07 am
I wanted to be sure to comment on the ‘cheap labor’ meme as well. Last night on the local news here in Houston, they interviewed the Mayor who said that Houston tracks the costs of illegal immigrants to Houston. He said illegal immigration cost Houston $100 Million last year. This wasn’t ‘lost tax’ costs either, these were costs for providing health care, additional law enforcement, housing criminals, and social services. When 1/3 of your mortgage goes to taxes, the cheap labor suddenly doesn’t seem so cheap.
Comment by Rick — 03.30.06 @ 10:25 am
LaShawn & Friends,
You’ve GOT TO check out Bad Eagle. He’s summed up this issue better than anybody I’ve read yet.
A must read: http://www.badeagle.com
Comment by bucktowndusty — 03.30.06 @ 10:37 am
Someone you have invited. People who force their way into your home without your permission are called gate crashers.
– Tom Sowell
No, Tom, the illegals HAVE been invited. Maybe not by you, but by someone much bigger than you — American business.
And check your history — no one invited runaway slaves into their communities and transporting them — like transporting illegals — was illegal too.
And let’s stay with this human rights angle for a bit, shall we? I’ve lived in South America. I’ve seen how girls 14 years of age were forced into prostitution to feed themselves. I’ve seen taxi cab drivers working 12 hours a day and earning less than $50.
These people are suffering; that’s why they — like runaway slaves — risk life and limb to get here.
Finally, if the laws where changed to make them legal would that change your opinion? No. Because your opinion and the opinons we see here, really have nothing to do with textbook law.
They’re different. That’s the problem and historically — even in the days of ancient Rome! — that’s been the problem. They’re different; you don’t like them.
That’s the crux of the thing.
ric
If you have children, I certain hope you’re not teaching them this rubbish.
There are people here from countries other than Mexico who flout this country’s immigration laws, and NONE should be rewarded for it with amnesty. There are people trying to do the right thing, waiting to become LEGAL citizens of this great country. And illegal aliens, no matter how “different” or similar, are breaking the law. I will continue speaking out against them and their criminal behavior, and I’m in the process of finding out what MORE I can do about the scourge. - Admin
Comment by ricland — 03.30.06 @ 10:50 am
#56-ricland,
“What goes around comes around. We stole CA, New Mexico, etc, from the Latinos, now it’s payback time.”
How did you steel it? How much are you willing to pay back to the victims of your theft and atrocities? Should you be prosecuted for war crimes?
We should put you in charge and you can give it back to them. When they’ve turned it into the prosperous land of their dreams, we can pay them to go back and visit and vacation or trade with them for the precious goods that they produce. They might even be entitled to ownership of Taco Bell.
Actually, who are they? Who ordained Mexico as the ruler of the northern lands? Should it be given back to Spain?
Maybe we can DNA all of the Mexicans and trace back their original ancestry and put those people in charge. Those of lesser ancestry would have to be subservient to those of the higher.
A new age for all mankind will emerge. We will all live under rule of the DNAsty and for those people who believe in evolution, might be ruled by apes.
Comment by Ralph — 03.30.06 @ 10:53 am
Here we are, stuck between compassion and what is right. This is a great country, which will become no country at all if we encourage and reward illegal behavior.
If we were to deport the millions of illegals, reset the clock to zero,our welfare system, schools and social programs would benefit greatly.
In localized areas the economy which had been based on their trade: home/apartment owners who had rented to illegals, stores which sold them goods would face economic disaster. I suggest that we should do it anyway. That sounds terrible, but rewarding illegal behavior is worse.
We are a nation of Former immigrants.
Comment by Doug — 03.30.06 @ 10:55 am
I meant to mention: Renee, great comments today! I didn’t need to post more, as you have already expressed what I was thinking. Have a great day!
Comment by Doug — 03.30.06 @ 11:00 am
What would happen if you legalized all the illegal immigrants here already and made them citizens. Wouldnt we still have the same problem 10 or 15 years from now. If all immigrants here illegally were made citizens wouldnt they then have to compete with imigrants who will still come here in order to access a higher quality of life. I believe that there needs to short, mid, and long term solutions that are creative and are proactive and result oriented. What annoys be about most of the comments on this topic, is most seem to put most of the fault of the immigrants who are usually doing jobs that americans wont do. To get here in the first place immigrants must trave hundreds of miles, sometimes through the hot desert, swim rivers, boarder patrol, minute men, ect. Then after all of that they still had to find a job. The only thing companies who hire these folks would need to do is not hire the them. But like I said Its not , rich people dont want to give up thier nanies, landscappers and other cheap forms of labor. If the goverment and the states were to crack down on crack down on american companies that hire them. If you fine enough of this companies that hire illegal workers the number of illegal workers would down. But praticing what we are preaching, and holding american companies respnsible giving them (illegals) a reason to come in the first place, there is always a job and an american company willing to supply that job to folks who are commiting they know is commiting a crime by bieng here. All to fatten their profits. Why dont you folks focus a little attention on the companies diong the hiring who are also breaking law by hiring undocumented workers. Semms to me that this would sovle the problem. But know that would be too much like right. Mark
Comment by mark bey — 03.30.06 @ 11:05 am
Immigration: what do the polls say?
Now that the Senate Judiciary Committee has acted and forwarded its ill-advised immigration “reform” plan on to the full Senate, you might ask how it lines up with American public opinion. Let’s take a look. From a recent Time/Warner poll:1….
Trackback by Conservative Outpost — 03.30.06 @ 11:37 am
A little history here:
The main reason the Mexican War of 1836 was fought was because the Mexicans refused to allow Americans to practice slavery. Once we defeated Mexico, slavery became a way of life in all the places we took from Mexico.
That’s right: Davey Crockett, Jim Bowie and all those other “heros” were fighting for the right to bring slaves into Texas.
Point being, your outrage over the “illegals” would have more merit if you displayed a similar outrage over how CA, New Mexico, etc, came under U.S. ownership — and the reason why (slavery) it came under U.S. ownership.
“Chickens coming home to roost” as Malcolm would have said.
We took their choice land.
Now they want it back, Baby.
ricland
Comment by ricland — 03.30.06 @ 11:44 am
#63 James…I agree with you completely. Also, I’ve been looking for those labor statistics you gave. Could you please provide a source?
Thanks
Comment by dianne — 03.30.06 @ 12:41 pm
Thanks La Shawn for re-linking your previous post on a biblical view of illegal immigration.
Comment by Renee — 03.30.06 @ 1:03 pm
Reconquista: It’s War
No, it’s not a shooting war. (At least not yet.) But there are those with eyes to see what Michelle Malkin (hat tip Gina Cobb, and Allthingsbeautiful)calls this heart-stopping photo you won’t see on the front page of the
Trackback by gringoman.com — 03.30.06 @ 1:18 pm
This isn’t about what is fair but what is right. Our laws are being broken with impunity. Advocates for full amnesty are playing the race card hard. There is a sense of entitlement permeating this crap that is dead wrong. We owe illegals NOTHING. They are here ILLEGALLY, hence the term illegal immigrants. Because the predominate group is from Latin America, our feckless leadership in both houses won’t do what needs doing. Our border patrol and law enforcement agents are being targeted for assassination by hired thugs. The government of Mexico is supporting said thugs with military assets. We are being invaded, plain and simple. And nobody at the federal level gives a shit beyond their next election. We need to secure the borders, both north and south. That is the first step. Stop them from coming in, or at least slow the flow to a trickle. Then, those who are felons need to be deported to country of origin and their information registered in a central database open to all law enforcement agencies to prevent their return. The “born here, become a citizen automatically†must be revoked. Only citizenship for newborns of CITIZENS automatically. No more benefits for illegals. Make it uncomfortable for them to be here. Heavily fine employers who knowingly hire illegals. You don’t pay, you don’t play. For those who wish to apply for citizenship, they must follow the same process as anyone else applying. The 10% rule needs to be suspended for Latin American countries for at least 10 years to allow for a balanced influx from other countries. Our southern neighbors have had cart blanche for too damn long. Do you realize the border patrol was established in 1924 to address this self same problem? Effective use of our tax dollars wouldn’t you say? Ranks right up there with the DEA as a bullshit, waste of time agency. Stopping the flow MUST be the priority at this point.
http://www.weneedafence.com
Comment by Theresa — 03.30.06 @ 1:55 pm
The people who have a problem with the illegals predictably are the lower middle class with no vested interest in keeping them here. Historically, this has been the pattern with immigration problems. But, historically, save in situations of civil war, it has been the iron rule of economics that wins.
You may recall the hue and cry over Japanese autos during the 60s and 70s. The same people behind that movement today all drive foreign cars — Why? Because foreign cars are better.
Simply put, immigration laws regarding South Americans no longer mean anything. The iron law of economics has torn them asunder. In fact, what’s going on in Congress right now is just a face-saving gesture. There’s nothing Congress, the President, or anyone can do to stop the illegals. It’smuch too late for that. There here in our house and they’re not leaving any time soon.
So what Congress is looking for is a graceful way of dealing with the thing. In other words, the immigration war is over — we lost.
Let me repeat that: The immigration war is over — we lost.
Here in Denver, Colo, the heart of the black community used to be Welton St. No more. Today, there are three Mexican auto repair shops there and one black auto repair shop. I went to the black once. I know use the Mexican repair shops whenever I need something done. The quality of work is the same, but the diffence in price is 40%
This illustrates my point about the iron law of econmics this way: Until you folks who are against the illegals are prepared to spend 40% more to get your car fixed, don’t expect American Business to spend 40% more to run their businesses which they’d be doing without the illegals.
And understand this if you understand nothing else: illegal Mexican workers are the best thing to happen to American business in the last 100 years — the very best.
ric
Comment by ricland — 03.30.06 @ 2:28 pm
Is It ‘Amnesty’ or ‘Earned Citizenship’?
Or neither. That’s our position.
S.F. Chronicle reports: “The immigration debate roiling the Senate and the country often boils down to one charged word: amnesty.”
It is brandished like a loaded gun by opponents of expanded legal i…
Trackback by California Conservative — 03.30.06 @ 3:58 pm
As the granddaughter of immigrants, I am appalled and outraged by what is going on with this immigration fiasco and am particularly embarrassed that Mike DeWine is one of MY senators (the mind boggles). I have done what I always do - e-mailed Frist and DeWine. Informed DeWine that his re-election chances were all but destroyed and suggested that Bill Frist strap on a set! Amazingly, Dr. Frist seems to have listened!
Comment by Gayle Miller — 03.30.06 @ 4:22 pm
Is anyone else watching the Senate on c-span and listening to our senators talk about all the illegals they know and some of them by name? They talk about how they feel for them, how they own homes and businesses, have lived here for x number of years…go on and on. What kind of joke is this anyhow? The more I watch, the more ridiculous this whole thing becomes…and I’m speaking of our very own senators.
Comment by dianne — 03.30.06 @ 4:34 pm
So Ricland that means violating the law is okay in your book? And I don’t know rather you are aware of it but middle class of any kind is rapidly disappearing in this country. Personally illegal aliens have no effect on my standard of living, but that doesn’t make it right or mean I don’t care about the issue. I am not sure how to make this plainer “I don’t feel any remorse about the plight of people (regardless of where they come from) who have no respect for this nation or it’s laws” Plain enough? Business is not the deciding authority on right and wrong. Besides you ignore the most basic law of economics. Supply and demand. Granted in the short term we might see prices rise but only until the demand equaled the supply.
Diane
You can find most of the facts I cited by going to the Bureau Of Labor Stastics web site. Or google illegal immigration and industry
Comment by James — 03.30.06 @ 4:43 pm
Illegal Immigration From A Biblical Point of View
…interesting take on the immigration issue from a biblical viewpoint.
Trackback by Skilletfan-My first blog — 03.30.06 @ 6:34 pm
Thanks La Shawn for recommending listening to Rush…
it was going good (and I got a few laughs) til I heard the sound bite from Ted “Get away with Murder” Kennedy which he called this the new civil rights movement…
just proving my point…
Other than that, he made me feel better
Comment by Renee — 03.30.06 @ 6:52 pm
Let me explain something about law to you, James. The first law is to provide for yourself and family. All other laws follow this one. This explains why you are here today instead of drinking Guinness is some ratty little pub in England or Ireland.
Like most of humankind the illegals follow the first law. They want their kids to grow up to be Attorney General instead a $50 a day taxi drivers. Your position is, no! Obeying the law is more important. Obeying the law must be done at all costs. This law is sacred and whomsoever disobeys it is a criminal and has no rights we should honor.
The illegals must accept their plight and with that sccept the fact that their children will never amount to anything. This is their curse they must bear for to not accept thier station in life and break our law is something no decent human being would ever do.
We should suppose, James, that were you born 100 years ago you’d have been as inflexible with women who demanded the vote, and 100 years before that, slaves who demanded their freedom.
Each broke the LAW in their quest for a better life.
In other words, James, the question really boils down to this: is it time for that particular law to be changed (and the fact that the people who broke it would benefit from this change has nothing to do with the question of whether it’s time for a change).
It’s time for the law to be changed and not just because 11 million Mexicans are disobeying it, but because WE are disobeying too. And more compelling still, everyone in this newsgroup– including you, James — would break this law were he a business owner looking to cut costs.
Oh, yes you would.
And there you have it. That’s the profile of a law that needs to be changed — a law everyone starts breaking.
Would you save 40% by using the Mexican auto mechanic? Yes, you would. Would you save $50,000 on a house built by illegal Mexican workers? Yes, you would. Did it ever occur to you that when you take these savings you support the 11 million illegal Mexican work force — people who break the LAW?
It should have.
No, James, the question is not one of law, but one of justice, a notion one clever fellow once wrote, no law should ever abridge.
You are fat, well-fed, have great medical coverage, your children go to wonderful schools, you eat red meat everyday, have a wide-screen television, drive the latest Japanese car and yet cannot fathom why anyone else would want such things. You just can’t fathom it; it makes no sense to you at all.
It would have to your immigrant grandfather, though.
ricland
Comment by ricland — 03.30.06 @ 6:53 pm
“Let the prisoners work the farms”
What a concept!
Comment by Renee — 03.30.06 @ 10:26 pm
“First things first” and the sooner the better
… We aren’t just talking about hard-working people wanting to come here for a better life; as long as the border’s open to them it’s also open to drug runners, jihadis, and other assorted scum. After we get the border under control, using whatever…
Trackback by Small Town Veteran — 03.30.06 @ 11:16 pm
First off Ricland you know absolutely nothing about me personally. You assume that I am fat well feed etc. But that may or may not be so.
You equate Law with justice. Then explain to my how it is just for people who violate the laws as they exist today to be given rewards when there are ohter people who are waiting in line following the laws just to be given the same opportunity that these people have taken for themselves.
As far as my immigrant grandfather. He understood the concept of obeying the law. He immigrated according to the laws of this country. You use twisted logic that if the ends is for a better future than the means do not matter. Okay then you are saying that no person has to obey any law as long as they are doing it for a better life for themselves? That is hedonistic anarchy. No laws matter as long as I have a good reason.
I am curious about something though and since you make assumtions about me (Although you are way off) I will return the favor. You are fairly young college education with a well paying job and a good benefit package. You think life revolves around the almighty dollar and you have no respect for the rule of law other than how you can make it work in your favor. Hence you are more likely then not a liberal. You feel that because my forefather’s built this land with the help of countless others (yours included I assume) that we owe the rest of the world the fruits of our collective labors. This country has always welcome legal immigrants but that does not mean all immigrants.
Let me see if I understand you. There should be no borders anywhere? The only laws that matter are those of self interest? And all countries must pay for the sins of their past? Does this about sum up your philosphy?
Comment by James — 03.30.06 @ 11:41 pm
Women’s suffrage?, slavery? miscegenation? integration? Taxation without representation …?
Should we assume were your around at each point in our history you’d have used the same logic you use today to condemn illegals?
Suppose you were around 1000 years ago in England when the punishment for stealing a chicken was to have your hand cut off and one eye plucked out? Should we assume you’d have used the same logic you use today to support this law too?
Please be aware that your type of opposition is nothing new. It’s as old as the pyramids — older.
The law is the will of the people not something handed down from the Mount, and the will of the people changes.
Two hundred years ago it was the will of the people slavery exist. One hundred years later it was not and so the PROCESS that changed that law began. This PROCESS was very similar to what we see happening today with illegal immigration. This Process usually ends with with the underdog winning. Look at Christianity and ancient Rome.
The illegals have the moral high ground here, not you. Your position is no different from the Southern whites who thought blacks had no right to drink from the same water fountain as them because the LAW said they didn’t.
Remember, it was the slave-holder Thomas Jefferson himself, who wrote “in the course of human events…”
He was talking about laws written in England enforced upon the colonists. He called them “unjust” laws. His point wasn’t that all laws were unjust, but that some — like taxation without representation — were.
Make no mistake,. King George and every one of his subjects disagreed. All of them took the position you now take — those colonists are criminal rabble! They have no respect for the law! They need to be put down!
Are our current immigration laws unjust? that’s the question and to answer this question we must answer another: has there been a dramatic change in circumstances since these laws were passed?
For example: When it became clear in the late 1930s that Hitler was sending Jews to the ovens, do you think that was cause to change our immigration laws? Of course you do. Why? because the circumstances had changed. Would you have turned a Jew away before the law was changed? Of course you would not have … then again, maybe you would have
In other words, the only meaningful question here is whether the changed circumstances warrant changing the law. Jingoism, name-calling, lynch-mob mentalities are not the solution; in this George Bush was right.
“In the course of human events …”
As to who I am, you’re welcome to visit my site and watch my videos: blacklogs.com I’m the guy with the wizard cap and sunglasses.
ric
Comment by ricland — 03.31.06 @ 12:24 am
Presidente Vincente Fox (Zorro) is a racist; remember when he said that Mexicans would take jobs that “even our blacks” wouldn’t do. To understand Mexico is simple; the less Aztec or Mayan ancestry you have, the higher you go up the economic ladder. The people of Spanish and German etc. ancestry are only too happy to dump their surplus population into our country, then it’s our problem, and we pay for it!
Comment by Tom Bosee — 03.31.06 @ 7:49 am
#91: You can’t call Fox racist and then make racist comments yourself about anyone who is of Aztec or Mayan ancestry.
Comment by Thomas — 03.31.06 @ 9:38 am
If every illegal coming over was racist — and many are — what would that have to do with anything?
You need to take a position and stick with it. You can’t make up stuff as you go because doing so makes us question your orginal stated motives.
The illegals will pull themselves up by their bootstraps, move into good neighborhoods, and finally, piss on blacks the way every other ethnic group has.
And rightly so …
ric
Comment by ricland — 03.31.06 @ 9:48 am
It is the truth Thomas. All the Mexican elites are almost pure European. Many at the top have no Amerindian blood at all.
Comment by Ian MacD. — 03.31.06 @ 10:11 am
Well said Ricland.
It is appalling the hypocrisy this fictional debate has generated. The hypocrisy abounds on many levels. For example, some condemn the undocumented immigrants for allegedly breaking the law, but would deny them and documented immigrants the protection of the First Amendment. If you are going to hold people accountable for breaking a law, you must also afford them the protection of the law.
Moreover, most people really don’t know anything about immigration law. What has fueled the fervor has been inflammatory sound bites, not reality. We should understand that people have a inherent desire to survive. If survival requires you to risk your life to save it, then that is something you will do. The United States provides an opportunity for a better life for those who live in economically deprived third world countries. The United States also provides a safe haven for those who live in political undesirable countries (please note that the United States’ immigration laws provide more favorable treatment for Cubans refugees than Haitians refugees). So just like the run-away slaves prior to the civil war, these people are searching for a better life. During the days of slavery, there were many state laws that made it illegal for slaves to run-away. Yet many broke those laws to escape to the north. Query: should those slaves have been sent back to the south where they would have been beaten, subjected to mayhem, or killed? Or if none of those things happened (which is unlikely), placed back into slavery? If you answer no, then why are so many calling for the deportation of undocumented immigrants.
People should ask why now is this issue being placed at the forefront of a national debate. Please don’t tell me it has anything to do with 9/11 or terrorism. Instead, it has everything to do with firing up the conservative base in an election year. For decades, undocumented immigrants have been flooding the United States, including the last six years of Bush’s administration. Yet conveniently, immigration is a hot-button issue this year.
People need to think instead of just reacting sound bites from politicians and the media control. Neither politicians nor the media should control how, when, and what you think. I thought we would have learned those lessons from the Iraq War.
Ahhhh..comparing border jumpers to asylum seekers and refugees. Talk about “fictional debate.” The slavery analogy is nauseating and not similar to border-jumping in the least. Why more blacks aren’t offended by this odious comparison is beyond me. - Admin
Comment by Antonio — 03.31.06 @ 10:13 am
I struggle with anger about this issue because I’ve been to very poor and dysfunctional, over-populated countries and don’t want the U.S. to end up like that. And it’s easier to see when you live around it. If you’re living in an area with manicured lawns and clean streets, you don’t really think about it.
Another reason why it bugs me is because I meet decent immigrants (some who don’t even have kids) who want to stay here but they can’t. Our country has such low standards! We’re the richest country on earth, but it’s a third world nation waiting to happen.
Comment by mj — 03.31.06 @ 10:33 am
Hey…
we have a NEW definition for slavery (as with everything else in PC America)…
slave-an uninvited guest who takes up residence in your home and won’t leave; a thief who decides to stay at your home;
BTW, slavery is against the law in America so you have to just suck it up and let them stay in your home.
I want to puke now.
Comment by Renee — 03.31.06 @ 10:37 am
There is no new definition of slavery. But we use analogy to make a point. No one is saying that undocumented immigrants are the same as slaves. Interestingly, no one has answered my question about what to do with slaves who broke the law by running away. Was it okay for them to break the laws at the time?
Comment by Antonio — 03.31.06 @ 11:09 am
This debate is about illegals all but demanding the rights and privileges of citizens, which by definition they do not have. Comparing this to slavery is a straw man at best. Slaves were forcibly taken from their homes and shipped across the sea against their will. Illegals came here of their own free will. The laws are not unjust. The process is slow I grant, but that does not make it unjust. And ricland, having you hand cut off and your eye plucked out was NEVER a punishment in England, especially not for stealing a chicken. Get your fact correct before spouting off please.
Comment by Ian MacD. — 03.31.06 @ 11:48 am
The Big 100!
I think most of what needs to be said has been said. Now that the discussion is veering off into ridiculous charges of racism and comparisons to the atrocity of human bondage, I think it’s time to close the thread.
Thanks for participating!
Comment by La Shawn — 03.31.06 @ 11:54 am