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	<title>Comments on: Michigan Civil Rights Initiative to Appear on November Ballot (Updated)</title>
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		<title>By: Just Some Poor Schmuck</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-68014</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Some Poor Schmuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-68014</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Everything I Thought Was Right, Is Wrong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;

I was a kid in 1963. I was in the 9th grade when the civil rights marches were going on in the south. I remember the TV coverage of Birmingham and the fire hoses and dogs. Where I grew up...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Everything I Thought Was Right, Is Wrong&gt;</strong></p>
<p>I was a kid in 1963. I was in the 9th grade when the civil rights marches were going on in the south. I remember the TV coverage of Birmingham and the fire hoses and dogs. Where I grew up&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Cobra</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67997</link>
		<dc:creator>Cobra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 23:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67997</guid>
		<description>Redbeard writes:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;Iâ€™ve been missing your posts, particularly the ones that lump all companies together in the Mean, Racist and Exploitative Club.&quot;

 Hi Redbeard! :) Now, far be it from me to smear ALL companies. I&#039;m just smearing the &quot;Mean, Racist and Exploitative&quot; ones. You do admit they exist, don&#039;t you? And do you HONESTLY believe that left to their own devices, these corporate spiders are going to &quot;judge people based upon merit, with no regard to race, ethnicity or gender?&quot;
  I&#039;ve got some South Pole beach barbecue tickets to sell you if you believe that one.

Christopher Taylor writes:

&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;Cobra does not share my dream.&quot;

 Maybe, maybe not. But we DO share a reality that people who dream like that, and dare speak out about it in public, can get harrassed, illegally wire-tapped, falsely imprisoned, threatened with blackmail and even murdered.

 But hey, if things were different it just wouldn&#039;t feel like America! :D

--Cobra</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Redbeard writes:</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;&#8221;Iâ€™ve been missing your posts, particularly the ones that lump all companies together in the Mean, Racist and Exploitative Club.&#8221;</p>
<p> Hi Redbeard! <img src='http://lashawnbarber.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Now, far be it from me to smear ALL companies. I&#8217;m just smearing the &#8220;Mean, Racist and Exploitative&#8221; ones. You do admit they exist, don&#8217;t you? And do you HONESTLY believe that left to their own devices, these corporate spiders are going to &#8220;judge people based upon merit, with no regard to race, ethnicity or gender?&#8221;<br />
  I&#8217;ve got some South Pole beach barbecue tickets to sell you if you believe that one.</p>
<p>Christopher Taylor writes:</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;&#8221;Cobra does not share my dream.&#8221;</p>
<p> Maybe, maybe not. But we DO share a reality that people who dream like that, and dare speak out about it in public, can get harrassed, illegally wire-tapped, falsely imprisoned, threatened with blackmail and even murdered.</p>
<p> But hey, if things were different it just wouldn&#8217;t feel like America! <img src='http://lashawnbarber.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&#8211;Cobra</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67995</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 20:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67995</guid>
		<description>#28.. I work with several black beneficiaries of affirmative action in &quot;corporate America&quot;.  110% unqualified to do the job.  I said so after looking at all the resumes and after personally interviewing them.  Unfortunately I didn&#039;t have the final say, I just have to take the blame for their mistakes and do the work they don&#039;t know how to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#28.. I work with several black beneficiaries of affirmative action in &#8220;corporate America&#8221;.  110% unqualified to do the job.  I said so after looking at all the resumes and after personally interviewing them.  Unfortunately I didn&#8217;t have the final say, I just have to take the blame for their mistakes and do the work they don&#8217;t know how to do.</p>
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		<title>By: B Gad</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67993</link>
		<dc:creator>B Gad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 19:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67993</guid>
		<description>I disagree with the premise that blacks are benefiting from affirmative action.  Where are they?  What industries have been adversely impacted.  Where are the disproportionate numbers of blacks in corporate America?  I&#039;ve always said hirings have more to do with human nature than racism.  It is not hard to believe only those with whom someone is comfortable with would be invited to the dinner table.  Until their are more black captains of industry the landscape of corporate America will never change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with the premise that blacks are benefiting from affirmative action.  Where are they?  What industries have been adversely impacted.  Where are the disproportionate numbers of blacks in corporate America?  I&#8217;ve always said hirings have more to do with human nature than racism.  It is not hard to believe only those with whom someone is comfortable with would be invited to the dinner table.  Until their are more black captains of industry the landscape of corporate America will never change.</p>
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		<title>By: RedBeard</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67990</link>
		<dc:creator>RedBeard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 18:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67990</guid>
		<description>To realize the dream, we need to acknowledge a truth.  De facto racism, the hearts-and-minds stage we&#039;re in now, is not going to be solved by affirmative action nor by any other similar agenda.  Throwing one form of racism at another form of racism, and expecting a positive outcome, is just silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To realize the dream, we need to acknowledge a truth.  De facto racism, the hearts-and-minds stage we&#8217;re in now, is not going to be solved by affirmative action nor by any other similar agenda.  Throwing one form of racism at another form of racism, and expecting a positive outcome, is just silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Taylor</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67978</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 16:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67978</guid>
		<description>Cobra does not share my dream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cobra does not share my dream.</p>
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		<title>By: RedBeard</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67977</link>
		<dc:creator>RedBeard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 15:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67977</guid>
		<description>Good to see you again, Cobra.  I&#039;ve been missing your posts, particularly the ones that lump all companies together in the Mean, Racist and Exploitative Club.  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good to see you again, Cobra.  I&#8217;ve been missing your posts, particularly the ones that lump all companies together in the Mean, Racist and Exploitative Club.  <img src='http://lashawnbarber.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Cobra</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67966</link>
		<dc:creator>Cobra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 03:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67966</guid>
		<description>America is not a meritocracy. Never has been, and never will be. Patronage, fraternalism, cronyism, old boy networks and nepotism are the rules, and not the exceptions.
 
  If the MCRI is passed, racial discrimination will still be every bit as rampant in Michigan, only then, the State of Michigan, and government agencies will not be allowed to use race as a factor in admissions, hiring, or contracts.

 In other words, white employers in Michigan can still be every bit as discriminatory against African-Americans as Shade references in the Devah Pager studies:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;White Felons have it better than Law Abiding Blacks in Hiring&lt;/a&gt;

Of course, while many are screaming about Affirmative Action being unfair and hurting ostensibly white American workers, American corporations are simply downsizing and outsourcing (or insourcing illegal aliens) hundreds of thousands of jobs, anyway.

 Couple this with the type of &quot;Affirmative Action&quot; some on the other side don&#039;t really complain about--institutional racism, an outsider might look at our country and think America has enacted SANCTIONS on black people.

--Cobra</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>America is not a meritocracy. Never has been, and never will be. Patronage, fraternalism, cronyism, old boy networks and nepotism are the rules, and not the exceptions.</p>
<p>  If the MCRI is passed, racial discrimination will still be every bit as rampant in Michigan, only then, the State of Michigan, and government agencies will not be allowed to use race as a factor in admissions, hiring, or contracts.</p>
<p> In other words, white employers in Michigan can still be every bit as discriminatory against African-Americans as Shade references in the Devah Pager studies:<br />
<a href="http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf" rel="nofollow">White Felons have it better than Law Abiding Blacks in Hiring</a></p>
<p>Of course, while many are screaming about Affirmative Action being unfair and hurting ostensibly white American workers, American corporations are simply downsizing and outsourcing (or insourcing illegal aliens) hundreds of thousands of jobs, anyway.</p>
<p> Couple this with the type of &#8220;Affirmative Action&#8221; some on the other side don&#8217;t really complain about&#8211;institutional racism, an outsider might look at our country and think America has enacted SANCTIONS on black people.</p>
<p>&#8211;Cobra</p>
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		<title>By: Lnf. yomo</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67965</link>
		<dc:creator>Lnf. yomo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 02:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67965</guid>
		<description>La Shawn:  I can say with 99.9 percent certainty that those who endured billy club beatings, lynchings, fire hose spray...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>La Shawn:  I can say with 99.9 percent certainty that those who endured billy club beatings, lynchings, fire hose spray&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Zakia</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67964</link>
		<dc:creator>Zakia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 00:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67964</guid>
		<description>The solution is there, however it cannot be properly implemented until we, black people, stop legitimizing the stereotypes we are pinned with when we apply for job and college.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The solution is there, however it cannot be properly implemented until we, black people, stop legitimizing the stereotypes we are pinned with when we apply for job and college.</p>
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		<title>By: Delwyn Campbell</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67963</link>
		<dc:creator>Delwyn Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 00:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67963</guid>
		<description>I have been thinking about this; here is an angle that you might not have thought about.

When LBJ launched the &quot;Great Society,&quot; it was in the wake of the Civil Rights movement.  In reality, what he was trying to do, was make some form of restitution for the decades of Jim Crow, oppression under color of law, lynchings, along with all the other injustices experienced by blacks simply because they were black and whites wanted to &quot;keep them in their place.&quot;  Major components of the program included enhanced Aid for Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), laws against housing discrimination, and Affirmative Action.

In other words, LBJ was trying to do what the Reparations movement now wants, provide restitution for the wrongs done to blacks.  Unfortunately, he did not come right out and say so. 

As a result, other groups, including, ironically, white women, who make up one of the largest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action, got added to the program.  This changed the perception of Affirmative Action from being a program designed to enable blacks who had been unjustly hindered &lt;b&gt;because whites wanted to keep them in their place&lt;/b&gt; into a progam which gave unfair preferences to others at the expense of white males. 

If LBJ would have been clearer, and Congress would have kept Affirmative Action to its original purpose, it might be percieved differently, and it might have been able to be ended with much less rancor.

In a word, it was never intended for anyone &lt;i&gt;other&lt;/i&gt; than blacks, and it was only intended to rectify injustices that were very recent at the time the Great Society was launched.

Think about it, La Shawn; doesn&#039;t this give a different take to the whole issue?  President Johnson was trying to right a grievous wrong which was fresh in the national psyche; he just didn&#039;t present it clearly.  It later got misused by others who were not intended to be involved in the program.  It is now seen as a failure, but it did accomplish the purpose for which it was originally intended.  I also have some thoughts about the Bakke decision, which helped move the changes in the public perception of Affirmative Action.  Perhaps I&#039;ll share them, if you like.

&lt;em&gt;There is nothing new under the sun. I&#039;ve blogged and written about the original intent of &quot;affirmative action&quot; many times, most recently here:

http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/09/20/repeating/ ... and there&#039;s no need to ask permission to share your opinion. The comment thread is open. - Admin&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been thinking about this; here is an angle that you might not have thought about.</p>
<p>When LBJ launched the &#8220;Great Society,&#8221; it was in the wake of the Civil Rights movement.  In reality, what he was trying to do, was make some form of restitution for the decades of Jim Crow, oppression under color of law, lynchings, along with all the other injustices experienced by blacks simply because they were black and whites wanted to &#8220;keep them in their place.&#8221;  Major components of the program included enhanced Aid for Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), laws against housing discrimination, and Affirmative Action.</p>
<p>In other words, LBJ was trying to do what the Reparations movement now wants, provide restitution for the wrongs done to blacks.  Unfortunately, he did not come right out and say so. </p>
<p>As a result, other groups, including, ironically, white women, who make up one of the largest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action, got added to the program.  This changed the perception of Affirmative Action from being a program designed to enable blacks who had been unjustly hindered <b>because whites wanted to keep them in their place</b> into a progam which gave unfair preferences to others at the expense of white males. </p>
<p>If LBJ would have been clearer, and Congress would have kept Affirmative Action to its original purpose, it might be percieved differently, and it might have been able to be ended with much less rancor.</p>
<p>In a word, it was never intended for anyone <i>other</i> than blacks, and it was only intended to rectify injustices that were very recent at the time the Great Society was launched.</p>
<p>Think about it, La Shawn; doesn&#8217;t this give a different take to the whole issue?  President Johnson was trying to right a grievous wrong which was fresh in the national psyche; he just didn&#8217;t present it clearly.  It later got misused by others who were not intended to be involved in the program.  It is now seen as a failure, but it did accomplish the purpose for which it was originally intended.  I also have some thoughts about the Bakke decision, which helped move the changes in the public perception of Affirmative Action.  Perhaps I&#8217;ll share them, if you like.</p>
<p><em>There is nothing new under the sun. I&#8217;ve blogged and written about the original intent of &#8220;affirmative action&#8221; many times, most recently here:</p>
<p><a href="http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/09/20/repeating/" rel="nofollow">http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/09/20/repeating/</a> &#8230; and there&#8217;s no need to ask permission to share your opinion. The comment thread is open. &#8211; Admin</em></p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67962</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67962</guid>
		<description>#18: I&#039;m agree 100%.  I wish there was an easy, clear-cut solution, but there does not appear to be with this issue.  There are too many people who feel that discrimination is the only solution for.. discrimination.  I think that&#039;s what has to change before anything else and that&#039;s certainly not going to happen overnight.

#19: For once I agree with Christopher Taylor!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#18: I&#8217;m agree 100%.  I wish there was an easy, clear-cut solution, but there does not appear to be with this issue.  There are too many people who feel that discrimination is the only solution for.. discrimination.  I think that&#8217;s what has to change before anything else and that&#8217;s certainly not going to happen overnight.</p>
<p>#19: For once I agree with Christopher Taylor!</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Taylor</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67960</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 19:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67960</guid>
		<description>I have a dream of a country that doesn&#039;t pay attention to the color of an applicant&#039;s skin or a college student&#039;s ethnic background.  A country that doesn&#039;t rely on past evils for present treatment, and does not have a class of people whose entire job is to foment racial tensions.  I dream like Dr King of a world where a man is judged by the content of his character rather than the color of his skin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a dream of a country that doesn&#8217;t pay attention to the color of an applicant&#8217;s skin or a college student&#8217;s ethnic background.  A country that doesn&#8217;t rely on past evils for present treatment, and does not have a class of people whose entire job is to foment racial tensions.  I dream like Dr King of a world where a man is judged by the content of his character rather than the color of his skin.</p>
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		<title>By: Shade</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67957</link>
		<dc:creator>Shade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 19:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67957</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;A much better solution is working to expose and punish individuals and companies who are discriminatory in their hiring practices.&lt;/i&gt;

I agree with this, but the biggest problem with this is that folks who attempt such exposure are prone to being called race baiters or accused of playing the race card.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>A much better solution is working to expose and punish individuals and companies who are discriminatory in their hiring practices.</i></p>
<p>I agree with this, but the biggest problem with this is that folks who attempt such exposure are prone to being called race baiters or accused of playing the race card.</p>
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		<title>By: Shade</title>
		<link>http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2006/04/05/michigan-civil-rights-initiative/comment-page-1/#comment-67956</link>
		<dc:creator>Shade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 19:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lashawnbarber.com/?p=1904#comment-67956</guid>
		<description>Zakia

I don&#039;t know if it has been discussed here or not or if she minds discussing it, but &quot;LaShawn&quot; is definitely a stereotypical black American name.  If LaShawn doesn&#039;t mind me asking, I&#039;m wondering she has felt or experienced any negativity related to her name?  Just curious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zakia</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if it has been discussed here or not or if she minds discussing it, but &#8220;LaShawn&#8221; is definitely a stereotypical black American name.  If LaShawn doesn&#8217;t mind me asking, I&#8217;m wondering she has felt or experienced any negativity related to her name?  Just curious.</p>
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