Thursday, May 18: I live-blogged today’s hearing. Exciting stuff!
Not. 
Tuesday, May 16 @ 4:18 p.m.: This post is closed. I will blog about the Duke hearing on Thursday and invite discussion. For now, let’s take a break.
Tuesday, May 16: VIDEO - The accuser should watch it. Interesting new info: DNA possibly matching a player was not found under the fingernail; defense attorney said the media misreported the findings. There was no blood, either.
The most ignorant-sounding person asking a question during Q&A: a black woman “activist” who doesn’t believe other black women are responsible for their own actions. She’s unjustifiably angry and rude and loud, giving an irrelevant and incoherent political speech. She interrupted the attorney and other reporters, although they’ve tried to show her respect. This is why people have negative stereotypes about blacks, justified or not. Standards of behavior are clearly different.
The hunt for the Great White Defendant is on! Put on your seatbelts.
On the reported spring 2007 trial date, Thomas Sowell said:
That makes no sense from either a legal or a social standpoint, whether the players are guilty or innocent. But it tells us something about District Attorney Nifong.
Suppose, for the sake of argument, that the players are guilty. What is the point of letting a bunch of rapists remain at large for another year? What about the dangers that they would pose to women on or off the Duke University campus?
…
The announcement that the trial of the Duke lacrosse players has been postponed until the spring of 2007 may be District Attorney Nifong’s way of beginning the process of “telling the truth slowly.”
Monday, May 15 @ 1:57 p.m.: A third lacrosse player and team co-captain, David Evans, has been indicted in Nifong’s cheap carnival of a rape case. Evans said he passed a polygraph and helped police with the investigation from the beginning.
Don’t blow a gasket, dear readers. Be angry, but stay calm and focused. I already told you what will come to pass. At this point Nifong has no political choice. Despite Durham’s high crime rate, which includes actual rapes, he’s not about to drop this sexy man-bites-dog case. The truth will be made known eventually. Believe it.
TalkLeft’s Jeralyn Merritt knows Joe Cheshire, Evans’s attorney. She reports on the press conference.
Reade Seligmann will appear in court on Thursday. I’m certain his attorney will ask the judge to have the case dropped. It could happen. If not, don’t be surprised.
I’m reminded of a scene from one of my favorite movies, “JFK.” A career “black ops” military man called “X,” played by Donald Sutherland, laughs at Kevin Costner’s character, attorney Jim Garrison, when he expresses shock that people would conspire to murder a president for political gain.
“Kings are killed, Mr. Garrison. Politics is power, nothing more,” says X.
This case is not about rape. It’s about power, with a heavy dose of racial animosity and some media boredom thrown in. Keep your heads about you, and don’t reduce yourselves to profanity, slurs, or name-calling. People who know the truth don’t have to resort to such tactics.
This morning: A third indictment is likely today, readers. The travesty continues. As I wrote yesterday, Nifong will drag this out until after the November elections. A gang rape case involving “rich” white boys and an oppressed black woman is more entertaining and high profile than a non-rape case involving a stripper and her black “boyfriend.”
Update (5/14): A few comments about the latest news. From the New York Post:
The new findings do not necessarily suggest the boyfriend and alleged victim had sex the night of the reported rape; experts say traces of semen can stay in the body for up to six days after intercourse.
I have no reason to doubt the “experts” because I’m sure traces of semen can remain, but the question is, why wasn’t genetic material matching Collin Finnerty, Reade Seligmann, and the “third suspect” also found? Is the accuser claiming that the three raped her with only a broom? She also claimed they forced her to have oral sex. Was there any blood evidence or semen from the three found on her? If she were fighting back, why no DNA from Finnerty and Seligmann under the phony fingernails?
I predicted in one of the seven related posts that the stripper likely had sex with her “boyfriend” earlier in the day (and not “up to six days” before), which accounts for some of the bruises on her body and evidence “consistent” with what I consider rough sex, not rape. I suspect Nifong suspected the same but held out on testing the “boyfriend” until after the primaries.
The grand jury reconvenes tomorrow. Will a third player be indicted? While Nifong is running around on a wild goose chase, a big fat one is sitting right in his face. For new readers wondering why I’m following this case, it’s because I want justice. As I’ve maintained from the time I first read about this rape accusation, the woman lied and intentionally used her skin color to get back at the players for whatever reason and ignite a racial firestorm. It sickens me, and I refuse to “wait until all the evidence is revealed” because I already know Nifong has nothing on the men he arrested and charged. The inevitable discovery process will be revealing.
I laid out the scenario for what I think happened that night. Read it here.
Rape is a serious charge, and every woman who makes false claims casts doubt on the next woman who is actually raped. The race and class envy aspects of the case, combined with the accuser’s obvious credibility problem, prompts me to see this through to the end. When the whole truth is revealed, I want an accounting from Nifong, both strippers, Duke’s president, and each and every one of the race hustlers and radical feminists calling for the heads of “rich” white lacrosse players on a platter.
On Monday, there’s the grand jury. On Thursday, there’s a hearing. At that time, Nifong should drop the charges against Finnerty and Seligmann. But I predict that unless a judge rules otherwise, Nifong will hold on to his flimsy stinker of a case until after the general elections in November. There is no one running against him. Yet. As one commenter said, if Nifong reveals his losing hand too soon, a Republican candidate may rise to challenge him based on his apparent political motives in this case.
———————————————————————————————————————–
According to ABC News, DNA collected from the accuser’s vaginal swab after she reported the rape matches her “boyfriend.” (I put the word in quotation marks because I don’t believe it represents the true nature of the relationship.)
Also see Mystery Man Revealed
Previous post: Duke Rape Case Report and the Twisted Sister
{ 6 trackbacks }
{ 134 comments }
I read on Fox News earlier that the DNA matched a person known by the police. But they didn’t want to bring his name into it. Right! It’s perfectly fine to give names of possibly innocent suspects, but don’t give the name of the only person that can be identified with DNA. If these young men are guilty, then prosecute them, but make sure everyone is treated equally.
Yeah, I wondered about that “known to the police” line. I figure he’s a known drug dealer or someone otherwise caught up in the criminal justice system in his own right, and not just someone of interest in the case.
I can only hope that if (and based on the evidence i’ve seen this is a distinct possibility) the players are found innocent, that this woman gets charged with filing a false police report. Every false accusation of rape diminishes each real report.
Well, now it is out that it is her “boyfriend”…the same one that Daddy was asked about beating her and he did not deny it? Would not surprise me that he was “known to the police”; from her past, I doubt this woman would be hooking up with the creme de la creme of Durham high society.
La Shawn, thanks for a column for those of us who were wary of the accuser’s story from the get-go.
I think Duke leaders stink. Hypocrites. Watch, now the losers will defend the strippers actions, because she is an oppressed, stripper who had no choice but to disrobe for strange men. Poor thing. Let’s see if they arrest the “boy friend” for rape?
If it turns out that the accused Duke players are innocent of raping her (and looks to me like they are), I think not only should the accuser be charged with filing a false report, the boys she accused should sue her and the DA.
I agree with Belle’s prediction about the “no choice” line. And I am going to pre-emptively call BS on that one. (Sorry for my potty mouth inference.) Every one makes choices, and stripping is not a choice anyone *has* to make. I see two motivations behind strippers: attention, and greed.
No, I think the implication more likely is that this “boyfriend” is her sugar daddy/regular client.
He may be known to Durham police more as a John than anything else
“Experts say that the absence of conclusive DNA evidence would not necessarily be a fatal blow to the prosecution’s case. They cite a figure stating that 75 percent to 80 percent of rape prosecutions do not involve forensic evidence such as DNA.”
- I want to know if that stat is since reliable DNA testing was invented or since the George Washington administration.
This case answers your question.
This woman had sex earlier with her “boyfriend” and that DNA was conclusively present but somehow through a anal/oral/vaginal rape that lasted 30 minutes with 3, 4 or 20 men, no DNA is found anywhere.
Numbers aren’t large enough to calculate that probability.
Maybe the BF is her PMP and that is why he known to the DPD. I am not sure I buy that Rape prosecution/ DNA statistic at face value. I’d like to know how many rape convictions occur when the DNA is NOT that of the accused. I bet none.
“Just to clarify, Coach Pressler was fired because he failed to comply with earlier instructions from the school to discipline his players. He was told that they were out of control - public drinking, public nuisance, etc. - and was told to get them under control. This he obviously failed to do, and that is why he was properly terminated.
If Coach Pressler had taught his boys to behave like men - which was his first responsibility as their coach - they never would have had a drunken debauchery with strippers and none of this would have happened.”
Comment by DBL — 05.12.06 @ 12:04 pm
I think DBL is way off in his/her analysis. First, there is no basis to conclude that the lacrosse team was “out of control.” Second, Duke’s President seems not to understand the respective responsibilities of college administrators, coaches, and individual students. Third, no matter what anyone thinks of men who hire strippers, such conduct is within the bounds of both the law and Duke’s code of ethics. Last, no matter what policies or precautions had been imposed or taken, there is absolutley NO guarantee that this whole mess could have been avoided. By his actions, President Broadhead proved himself to be both a hypocrite and a fool, and should be sent packing at the earliest possible opportunity.
Why does anyone think that the lacrosse team was “out of control?” Over the period that lacrosse players received 15 police citations, an average of little under 1 citation per three players, Duke students overall received 1021 citations averaging a little over 1 citation per 6 students. Considering that males everywhere on average receive far more citations than females, it is entirely possible that the rate of police citations for the lacrosse team might be no different than the rate for male Duke students overall. It still sounds relatively high, but we don’t know why that should be the case. It could reflect the average for male college students overall, or it could point to behavioral problems for Duke students in particular, or for that matter it could reflect a pattern of intimidation by Durham police and the DA’s office.
Why do some believe that it was justified to fire the coach? It’s no more a coach’s job to teach his players to behave “like men” than it is the job of the University President. College students should be taught how to behave long before Freshman orientation — by their PARENTS. Furthermore, if it is proper to fire the coach because of the conduct of some of his players ON THEIR OWN TIME, then it is equally proper to fire the university president on account of the same conduct by some of his students. If accountability flows uphill, let it flow clear to the summit.
Why do some believe it proper to prosecute the lacrosse players for rape, or at least to denounce them, just because they hired strippers? Though I in general disapprove of “drunken debauchery,” hiring strippers to perform at a private function is not illegal in Durham. If President Broadhead truly wishes to improve the moral climate prevailing at Duke University, he could opt to establish a code of student conduct modeled on, say, that at Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University. Though it might be morally uplifting, even advisable, I seriously doubt that he would ever do such a thing because such action would clash with his Leftist views on “civil liberties.” Leftists, you see, are very selective in their abhorrence of debauchery. Had the accuser in this case made similar allegations against members of Duke’s basketball team, does anyone seriously imagine that Broadhead would have cancelled the season and fired Coach K? Lacrosse is a non-revenue sport, and it was easy for Broadhead to throw the program under the bus to demonstrate his liberal bona fides. Even Leftists have their price, it seems.
Why does anyone believe that this whole ugly affair was, from Duke’s standpoint, avoidable? There’s no accounting for the actions of hopped up whores. Moreover, the accuser in this case could have made the same allegations with no more validity or substantiation from the comfort of her own bedroom. This mess has its origins in the prosecutor’s office, and the only way for it to have been avoided would have been for the DA to have NOT been a race-baiting demagogue.
In conclusion, Broadhead has utterly failed in ALL his responsibilities. By contributing to the lynch mob atmosphere surrounding this case, he failed to protect Duke students, the University, their reputations, the rule of law, and Justice, itself. He’s also helped to ruin promising young lives. After this debacle, I for one would NEVER send a child of mine to Duke University. I also hope that the innocent lacrosse players, in attempting to make themselves whole, manage to lay legal claim to a sizable chunk of the Duke endowment so that this affair may serve as a potent warning to those who might otherwise follow in Broadhead’s footsteps.
Bravo, Doctor Steve. You should submit your writings to the pathetic excuses for newspapers in Durham. I hope that one day soon, these phony lib university and city leaders have to wallow in the mess they have made. BTW, last time I was in the Duke Hospital Gift Shop, they sold several “men’s” magazines. But apparently that is different.
“SteveDinMD
Researchers have admitted that the sample size is too small for to make any conclusion. And black on white rape is likewise not an epidemic since the overwhelming majority of black men never rape anyone and those few who do overwhelmingly rape black women.”
Comment by Shade — 05.11.06 @ 10:03 am
While I’m at it, I’ll take the time to correct Shade, as well. U.S. Department of Justice crime statistics are NOT based on too small a sample to draw any conclusions. One very potent — and valid — conclusion is that white on black rape is very, very rare. It’s so rare in fact that it’s difficult to quantify its incidence in the general population. Another valid conclusion is that black assailants do NOT overwhelmingly rape black victims. DOJ statistics from 2003 indicate that black assailants rape black victims approximatley 51% of the time, a majority, but far from overwhelming. The confidence window on this last statistic would seem to be not terribly precise, yet it seems nevertheless safe to conclude that blacks are much, much more likely to rape interracially than whites. The empirical data completely debunk the claims of those who have from the outset emphasized the racial aspects of this case. Hopefully, the media can from this point forward focus on facts, evidence, and the individual merits of the allegations.
SteveDinMD:
Maybe we should give you a shot at running a university? Hindsight is 20/20.
Take a look at T. Wolfe’s book as it relates to lacrosse. Then look at the Duke lacrosse report. No arrest zones for underage drinking at tailgate party’s? Lax players taking the lead in those party’s? Foam machines and wrestling in bikini’s?
The lax coach is not immune - he knew what was happening and that it was a problem. He met the lax players at the flagpole before football games to make sure they did not drink and “group grope” for too long.
Yes, if Duke’s bball program descended to that level publicly, I think Coach K would have gotten his walking papers. Coach K is probably 100% supportive of reining in excessive partying by lax players. He takes the West Point approach, and so should Duke with lax.
The “character counts” approach of Coach K and Brodhead is why Duke will bring in more and more top faculty and students. The lax players who have lost a team will be fine - they get educated at a great university. Most (say 80%) drop the sport after a year or two of college anyway, I suspect, since the time constraints on D1 athletes are horrendous.
In hindsight, knowing all we know now, there were alternatives. But firing Pres. B based on judgments he made? Not a good idea.
I’m so shocked by the latest news, I can’t stop from yawning. It might be a safe bet to assume that the alleged stripper’s bruises could have been also caused by her “boyfriend”. The oversensitive self racial victim hood crowd and the class envy crowd won’t pay any attention to this news.
cfw wrote:
“Foam machines and wrestling in bikini’s?”
I wish I were back at Duke!!! Though, when I attended Duke the beer trucks pulled right up on campus with taps on the side. The adminsitration actually would purchase kegs for quad parties and to celebrate victory.
Anyway, Duke also has an S&M club now, whose accountibility problem is that?
“Experts say that the absence of conclusive DNA evidence would not necessarily be a fatal blow to the prosecution’s case. They cite a figure stating that 75 percent to 80 percent of rape prosecutions do not involve forensic evidence such as DNA.â€
Only a one-sided lawyer trying to mislead people would say this. While it’s literally true that most rapes cases don’t involve DNA, it’s also true that DNA does not matter in most rape cases because 1) consent, not sex, is disputed as in most date rape cases and 2) there is NO DNA material to test if the rapist is very careful or the woman delays reporting the rape.
and 3 - I am not sure about this, but I would guess if consent can’t be disputed as with a date rape and there is DNA, I would guess that most cases are settled long before trial.
Slurpie:
“I wish I were back at Duke!!! Though, when I attended Duke the beer trucks pulled right up on campus with taps on the side. The adminsitration actually would purchase kegs for quad parties and to celebrate victory.”
I know, I know. Just lowering the drinking age, as in Europe would take care of underage drinking. Binge drinking is still a legitimate malum in se and was brought to the attention of the lax coach. That said, I could see rehiring him for next year, with proper contractual terms about not allowing binge drinking by lax team members as a team. Having a team is a privilege, not a right, and it soaks up funds Duke cold spend in other ways. Hence, it can and should tell the teams do not abuse privileges by sanctioning binge drinking.
“Anyway, Duke also has an S&M club now, whose accountibility problem is that?”
That’s legal, right? Lots of rumors of group sex, nude romps, exhibitionism, etc. I say they should each have enough sex, not too much, and watch out for disease, unwanted pregnancy, lack of true informed consent. Getting arrested for nude romps as a team could be a problem. Aside from that, who cares if they consensually spank a bit and tie each other up consensually? Psych services well versed in sex issues should be provided, and are, as far as I can tell.
cfw:
Firing Broadhead based on his judgements is not a good idea, you say? What, then, is a university president supposed to exercise if NOT judgement? Failures in judgement are precisely the reason such people are fired, as should be the case in this instance. Hindsight, as you say, is 20/20, but Broadhead evidently lacks even this, otherwise he would have by now taken the opportunity to reverse many of his earlier, wrongheaded decisions, made in haste on the basis of his leftist political inclinations.
As relating to Duke basketball and Coach K., you truly must have your head in the sand. The basketball season would NEVER have been cancelled in the face of similar allegations. Think of the implications for TV contracts and revenues, not only for Duke, but for the ACC and NCAA. For that matter, the season would never have been cancelled in the face of forensically substantiated allegations from a CREDIBLE victim. Money talks and BS walks, even at Duke.
I also believe your head to be in the sand regarding Duke’s future prospects. Lynch mobs and apparatchiks do NOT attract the best and the brightest. Historically, society’s most capable members have risked life and limb to escape such tyranny. You also say that the lax players will benefit from attending a “great university.” You must be kidding. Any player not within a year of graduation would be well advised to transfer, that is unless he enjoys the abuse. This also begs the question, “Is Duke today, in fact, a great university?” I personally don’t know, but I perceive it to be at a turning point. They can keep Broadhead and his ilk, and continue down the politically correct road toward eventual sub-mediocrity. Alternately, they can clean house, recapture the high moral ground, and position themselves to pursue true excellence on the basis of rationalism. This turning point, this choice had always been there, but it took this current crisis to make it obvious to all.
PS: If your post was intended as a trial balloon, offering me the job of Duke University President, I might consider the offer. It would certainly be an easy thing for me to improve upon the performance of the incumbant.
“This mess has its origins in the prosecutor’s office, and the only way for it to have been avoided would have been for the DA to have NOT been a race-baiting demagogue.”
While I doubt it’s properly used in this case, it’s a common, legitimate prosecution technique to bluff to obtain a confession or plea bargain.
This is why prosecutorial discretion is important. One does not charge everyone – including the accuser with making a false report – and let the grand jury and jury decide.
“Experts say that the absence of conclusive DNA evidence would not necessarily be a fatal blow to the prosecution’s case. They cite a figure stating that 75 percent to 80 percent of rape prosecutions do not involve forensic evidence such as DNA.â€
Who needs proof? All a woman has to do is scream rape and point out a man and the man is presumed guilty unless there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
UNK:
I agree entirely. The DA is not supposed to approach his job in the manner of a disinterested bystander, deferring all responsibility to Grand and Petit Juries. Rather, a District Attorney represents the People — ALL the People, including both accusers AND accused. As arbiter of the People’s justice, in the absense of compelling evidence and a likelihood of conviction, a DA is obliged to refrain from prosecution. Nifong is evidently unfamiliar with the duties of the office he holds.
I want to know who the mystery man is. I also want to know his past too. Where was he on the night in question? Did he see the accuser?
I also want to know if the accuser in this case will be arrested for a false rape claim?
Nifong was hardly disinterested. He went to the GJ to avoid discovery, as we are now finding out. Nifong had a pretty good motive to make his election happen(his post-DNA1 visit to NCCU to guarauntee prosecution w/o evidence cinches that)
There is another villain in this story emerging in the form of Durham City Manager Patrick Baker, who was apparently from day 1 pushing this prosecution to improve his standing with several of the city council members who were made at him for not being black enough.
Race politics is a complex thing once you start the engine up.
In the interest of securing a higher justice, perhaps it is time for North Carolina to abandon municipal elections as the mechanism for selecting District Attorneys. Perhaps DAs should be appointed by the Governor with the advice and consent of the State Legislature. This would encourage the application of uniform standards for qualifications and temperment, and reduce the likelihood of local political considerations from warping the application of criminal justice.
So what are the odds that Nofong knew this result from the first DNA testing and withheld the evidence from the Defense? Not only would he be in violation of what I understand NC law to be to wit: immediately turn over all DNA evidence but he would also have a huge ethical problem, as he is compelled to provide the Defense with any exculpatory evidence he obtains in his investigation.
ABC reported that Nifong obtained a cheek swab from the “boyfriend” on May 3.
So in Nifong’s defense (the only time I will do that) it may that he knew that someone else (and not Duke lacrosse players) had had sex with the accuser that night was after he sought indictments.
Upon discovering that, he should have dropped the case. Instead he started smirking…and (just coincidence) stopped talking.
I don’t believe Nifong will drop the case, regardless of any mass of exculpatory evidence. He might have won the Democratic primary election, but the general election isn’t until November. Though he currently figures to run unopposed, to drop the case now would be to invite a challenge in November, perhaps from his nearest rival from the primary, running as an independent. This, I’m sure, is the reasoning behind Nifong “slow tracking” the trial, which he anticipates getting under way sometime in the Spring. If Nifong is unavoidably to be made to look foolish before a judge, he is best off having that happen AFTER the general election, and early enough in his term so that voters will have ample opportunity to forget by the next election cycle. It’s all so terribly frustrating the the system in North Carolina lends itself to such political manipulation.
OK, It is clear that alot of the posts here are from folks that live in NC or have a Duke connection. The outrage must be acted on. I want some suggestions from our attorney friends here in NC. How do you make a formal complaint to the NC BAR about Nifonggoo, liberal hippie UNC graduate (is this UNC grad payback?, you know the joke, what do unc students and duke students have in common,they both got into UNC!)I know alot about NC politics. When will the Democrats give this guy up? Well, they still have Speaker Black, so that maybe a bad question. What is the BEST plan to pressure this guy to give it up? How can get to this guy and make him see what a loser this case is becoming for him? I am thinking about it any ideas? Kemp
1996 report on use of DNA in sex assault cases at this site: http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/dnaevid.txt.
Nifong expected DNA to implicate…instead it appears to have excluded the two he indicted and only given him an “unable to exclude” on a third party. Perhaps he was unaware
“…profiling is more likely to exonerate a wrongly accused suspect.â€
It seems it is easy to confuse juries by omitting pertinent information - hope the defense has plenty of experts lined up.
“….A second important issue is the number of cases in which there was misconduct on the part of the prosecution’s scientific experts.â€
And the underlying problem with Nifong’s prosecution….he has never given the impression that the facts are what he is after, just the hides of a few lacrosse players.
“Not uncommonly, evidence collected and subjected to DNA profiling may reveal results from biological material left by other consensual sexual partners unrelated to the offense investigated or from other individuals having contact with the victim. Consideration of those results in the context of all other evidence in a specific case is essential to the determination of what took place. Law enforcement officers, prosecutors, and judges must conscientiously undertake such examinations in order to fulfill the factfinding functions with which they are entrusted.â€
Finally, does this case fit the profile for a case that could be referred to the FBI or what? Of course, the report is 10 years old, I have no idea if it is an option to do so now…..too bad if not - hopefully less biased prosecution.
“It must be stressed that the sexual assault referrals made to the FBI ordinarily involve cases where (1) identity is at issue (there is no consent defense), (2) the non-DNA evidence linking the suspect to the crime is eyewitness identification, (3) the suspects have been arrested or indicted based on non-DNA evidence, and (4) the biological evidence (sperm) has been recovered from a place (vaginal/rectal/oral swabs or underwear) that makes DNA results on the issue of identity virtually dispositive.â€
Finally, this from http://www.femalepatient.com/html/arc/sel/april03/028_04_025.asp - VERY specific instructions on how rape kits exams should be done.
“DNA profiling has made great strides in the last few years and profiles have been successfully obtained from minute fragments of evidence such as epithelial cells on touched objects, sweat, and respiratory secretions. These types of evidence are frequently deposited during a sexual assault.”
“Minute fragments”……how is it that a prolonged attack by 3 persons left nothing on the accuser? An exam done a couple of hours after the alleged attack on an accuser who presumably had not showered provides not one shred not just of semen or condom lubricant, but no sweat, saliva, skin cells, etc.??
And it will be interesting to find if the trace DNA under the fingernail was picked up by any adhesive on it…isn’t that how they are attached? It would be a miracle if it floated around a trash can for a few days WITHOUT being grossly contaminated.
Nifong’s motives are a mystery, but others are using this case as well. Blindly pushing an agenda without regard for the truth is a ploy destined to result in the attainment of an unintended goal.
Keep this up and every human interaction will be subject to review, as a target for potential litigation or a mandate for racial or gender-sensitivity training. We will need contracts before interacting with others. Wait a minute…we’re going to need a lot more lawyers!
It’s sad to say, but the folks in Durham’s Black community will refuse to believe that the DNA tests showed that there was no lacrosse player contact with the accuser. Even if the accuser called a press conference and admitted she lied they would refuse to believe it. If Jesus Christ Himself came down to Durham and said she lied, they would refuse to believe it.
Unfortunately, it comes down to economic class and political alignment. All of the conservative Black people I know (including myself) didn’t buy her story from the beginning. But my friends and acquaintances who are liberal are so convinced these Duke lacrosse players are guilty and that money will buy their freedom.
Those Black folks who are identified as liberal (including the “community leaders”, the New Black Panther Party, pastors and even Jessie and Al) will come up with conspiracy theories and new urban myths that will be floated via email. I will go out on a limb and say some Blacks are not satisfied unless there is some mess going on that they can blame on the White community. While I’ll admit Black people have caught hell for hundreds of years, a lot of it is our own doing.
I would not be surprised if the same people who killed Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman are the ones who “messed” with the DNA testing. You heard it here first! Also, it may be hard for some people to believe, but some people do file false police reports and false rape claims.
“people who killed Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman are the ones who “messed†with the DNA testing. You heard it here first!”
Sorry, but the people who believe in these conspiracy theories beat you to it.
I heard it on newshounds.us (the blog that watches Fox news, but is even more biased than Fox) a few weeks ago by someone claiming to be a black grandmom which I also doubt since she/he typed like a teenager and knew little history.
“The outrage must be acted on….
I am thinking about it any ideas? ”
While it’s always good to act to improve the legal process, acting while the case is still open and all the facts are not known may not be optimal and appear like trying to influence a single case rather than to improve the system – and I think minorities are the victims of an imperfect system on average more often.
I suggest waiting until all the facts are known, the books are written, and then civilly debating all the options, such as removing direct elections as someone suggested.
This lecture by Minister Eric Muhammad offers the best and only solution to America’s race problem and deals with the Duke rape case, the Cynthia McKinney incident, and illegal immigration.
It has been deleted by THE GOD DAMNED WHITE MAN several times due to the truth it speaks to America’s race problem and we’re sure will be deleted again soon. Get it while you can.
THE BLACK…WHITE…PROBLEM IN AMERICA
4/16/06
THIS LECTURE IS 5.90MB IN SIZE. WITH HIGH SPEED INTERNET, IT WILL TAKE ONLY SECONDS TO DOWNLOAD. WITH DIAL-UP IT COULD TAKE UP TO AN HOUR.
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW TO BEGIN DOWNLOAD.
http://www.zshare.net/download/the-black-white-problem-in-america-4-16-06-wma.html
MUHAMMAD’S TEMPLE # 15
ATLANTA, GA.
Dr. Steve:
“Firing Broadhead based on his judgements is not a good idea, you say? What, then, is a university president supposed to exercise if NOT judgement?”
Recall that this is a university in Durham NC, with a history of poor town/gown relations. When Brodhead made the calls you find so clearly wrong, the facts were unclear. Suppose there had been a rape. Suppose Duke was looking at a lawsuit for not properly supervising the lax team and the lax coach. Tens to hundreds of millions in possible punitive damages were in the balance. Accepting a coach’s resignation and ending a season of games of lax looks pretty defensible if we assume there was a rape.
“Failures in judgement are precisely the reason such people are fired, as should be the case in this instance.”
One still needs business judgment room.
I also doubt the Harvard call re its President, unless he was a poor fund-raiser. The chief job of Brodhead is to raise funds and not make obviously stupid calls that would make it hard to recruit top students and faculty. So far, I see no evidence he has blown it.
“Hindsight, as you say, is 20/20, but Broadhead evidently lacks even this, otherwise he would have by now taken the opportunity to reverse many of his earlier, wrongheaded decisions, made in haste on the basis of his leftist political inclinations.”
He has left open the idea of lax next year. Not sure there is much more he can do now to reverse things - Nifong is going where he will go. Duke needed to presume a prosecutor who has done good work for 25-30 years is not a complete fool. Here, it turns out that was a wrong assumption, but that is pretty shocking. Again, we need to put ourselves in Duke shoes when the events were unfolding.
“As relating to Duke basketball and Coach K., you truly must have your head in the sand. The basketball season would NEVER have been cancelled in the face of similar allegations.”
I think I said Coach K would get his walking papers - get relieved of duty, asked to resign, if he had the sort of public misconduct on a regular basis that made the lax team a sort of eyesore.
Canceling a season is a bit hard for a revenue producing team, with contractual commitments.
“Think of the implications for TV contracts and revenues, not only for Duke, but for the ACC and NCAA. For that matter, the season would never have been cancelled in the face of forensically substantiated allegations from a CREDIBLE victim.
Money talks and BS walks, even at Duke.”
This is all true, which is why I did not say Duke would cancel the bball season. I was focused on replacing the coach. Canceling a season of bball for Duke would lead to possible suits for tens to hundreds of millions. “Resigning” a coach is a different matter.
“I also believe your head to be in the sand regarding Duke’s future prospects. Lynch mobs and apparatchiks do NOT attract the best and the brightest.”
A bit over-stated, yes? So far no problems with Duke enrollments or application numbers.
“Historically, society’s most capable members have risked life and limb to escape such tyranny.”
I agree that Nifong is a loose cannon. Not sure we can call him a tyrant yet. Even DA’s are allowed to be wrong at times.
“You also say that the lax players will benefit from attending a “great university.†You must be kidding. Any player not within a year of graduation would be well advised to transfer, that is unless he enjoys the abuse.”
Transfer where? I stand by the great university comment. Not perfect, but I doubt the lax case would have been much different at Yale or Harvard or Brown or Berkeley or UCLA or Penn if (a) a prosecutor went batty like Nifong and (b) race issues were stirred up.
This is mostly a Nifong problem, like in Bonfire of the Vanities, as opposed to a Duke problem.
“This also begs the question, “Is Duke today, in fact, a great university?†I personally don’t know, but I perceive it to be at a turning point. They can keep Broadhead and his ilk, and continue down the politically correct road toward eventual sub-mediocrity.”
What is politically correct in hindsight is not what was correct legally and from a business judgment perspective on March 13 through April 10.
“Alternately, they can clean house, recapture the high moral ground, and position themselves to pursue true excellence on the basis of rationalism.”
I do not see any need to roll more heads. Bringing back the lax coach is worth discussing.
“This turning point, this choice had always been there, but it took this current crisis to make it obvious to all.”
Spent much time in Durham? Given the nature of Durham, the nature of the charges, the Nifong antics, the faculty (inherited by Pres. B), and student body he had to work with, Pres. Brodhead seems to have been about right in tone.
“In the interest of securing a higher justice, perhaps it is time for North Carolina to abandon municipal elections as the mechanism for selecting District Attorneys. Perhaps DAs should be appointed by the Governor with the advice and consent of the State Legislature. This would encourage the application of uniform standards for qualifications and temperment, and reduce the likelihood of local political considerations from warping the application of criminal justice.”
Pretty much every word of this comment is misguided.
How can you rail about “tyranny” in one comment, and then suggest an alternative that removes the selection process from the will of the people in the next breath? And the idea that somehow political considerations are less likely in a political appointment v. an elected official…
Steve, (I think he is a Steve D. in MD (Maryland) not a medical doctor but correct me if wrong)
IMHO, a brilliant investigator could see the odds of brutal gang rape having occurred is very low given public evidence, but there is no way Duke University would or should have this expertise or knowledge of the case.
Duke has to make student safety decisions based on a simple arrest for a violent crime – which are usually but not always true.
Even police departments routinely suspend officers accused of crimes prior to trial.
But getting back on topic of the “boyfriend†even a dumb investigator would know that there is good chance of the victim being a victim of an abusive “boyfriend†not rape and should have investigated.
UNK:
I’m not suggesting that the university be expected to bring uncommon powers of deduction and reasoning to bear on this or any other criminal matter. It isn’t necessary. All one could reasonably expect is for them to respond with fairness and consistency. Neither whim, nor caprice, nor expediency, nor financial self-interest, nor political correctness are adequate substitutes. As a starting point, I offer the following principles that the university might consider adopting to guide its handling of future controversies:
1) Neither the race of the accused nor of an accuser should in any way influence the handling of any case. Moreover, all parties to any controversy should be guaranteed consistently fair and impartial treatment.
2) Students should face disciplinary action only for violations of the univesity code of conduct, and only in accordance with strict protocol. Community outrage, publicity, and the like should have no bearing on the proceedings, nor on the outcome.
3) The broader membership of teams, clubs, societies, or other university associations should not face collective disciplinary action for the transgressions of individual members.
4) Coaches, professors, and other university employees should not be held in any way accountable for student offenses in which they themselves were not participants, which they neither organized nor encouraged, which did not occur during officially sanctioned events, and which did not occur on university property.
5) Students charged with specified criminal violations or classes of violations should be immediately suspended pending final disposition of their respective cases.
6) Members of the university community should never face disciplinary action for proper exercise of either their civil rights or of their special rights as community members.
7) Upon acquittal or dropping of associated charges, students accused of criminal wrongdoing should be immediately reinstated with full privileges, assuming there exist no other outstanding violations of the code of conduct.
9) In criminal matters, the university should guarantee all due assistance to both the prosecution and defense as regarding the production of evidence.
10) In criminal matters, the university should take no action, nor should it issue any statement that might tend to prejudice the outcome of any case. In particular, the university should in no way undermine the accused’s presumption of innocence.
It seems to me that Duke’s President Brodhead violated just about every one of these principles. It’s no wonder, then, that Duke has come to be widely held in contempt for its handling of the case.
It is curious that after hearing this(DNA belonged to Boyfriend) on the big networks, I cannot locate this statement anywhere . except here..where did this big news item disappear to?
According to the ABC News article I linked to (first link), the DNA was her “boyfriend’s. I also read another that said the stripper’s mother was their source. - Admin
Broadhead will be gone by next year. The alumni will demand it (the Trustees must do CYA so it will take a while)
Interesting how “commonly known facts” the general public was led to believe about rape are not true.
A. “Only 2% of all rape accusations are false”.
B. “White on black rape is a common hate crime”.
C. “1 in 4 college women surveyed report being raped or being the victim of attempted rape”
D. “The woman’s rape test kit showed a rape happened because specially trained medical staff assessed her injuries as “consistent with rape”.”
E. “20-40% of women report they were sexually victimized as children”
F. “35% of college-aged men surveyed report they would have some likelihood of raping if they knew they could get away with it.”
Perhaps only the environmental movement has as many hokey statistics of such dubious, unscientific provinence.
“Leading scientists claim America could be completely powered by solar energy in 10 years if it wasn’t for the clout of big oil companies”
“Giving up SUVs would cause a complete cessation of our dependence on ME oil and cause a 32% drop in the price of gasoline.”
Sorry, these and other stats seem to always be pulled out of some scientifically untrained activist’s ass based on cooked data when you trace them back far enough. But the damage is real in promoting harmful ideas lay people and legislators act on when they paralyze national energy policy believing solar energy is the waiting solution or when they craft laws assuming women almost never, ever make false accusations.
The latest whopper is Nifongs highly misleading feminist stat that 75-80% of sexual assault convictions involve no DNA testing as part of the guilty finding. That ignores the fact that 30% of sexual assaults involve no penetration of the victim, for starters. And the majority of rapes where DNA testing is not used because neither party disputes sex happened, just the matter of consent. Add to that the cases where the woman waited a period of time past the 72 hour normal testing. In some cases, even when the victim is coated in semen and saliva, DNA testing might not be done when extra witnesses or compelling other evidence like fingerprints on a knife left at the scene make for a certain conviction. Condoms could be used. Some districts have completed kits, but no budget for expensive DNA testing, even when it is desirable and would pile on more evidence..Finally, the DNA testing may be challenged by the shysters on lab quality control, contamination issues (very common challenge) and prosecutors may have enough evidence or witnesses not to bother with days of OJ-style DNA testing disputes.
So the stat that 75-80% of the sum of sexual assaults ranging from gropings, attempted rapes, to actual rapes is unsurprising.
What is surprising is that if the accuser claims she was assaulted orally, anally, and vaginally - no DNA was found. Especially if she reported no condoms were used to her knowledge and all 3 indicated they ejaculated by their behavior. And nothing on her hands and knees from the grotty bathroom floor. And nothing in the way of saliva. Nothing on her stripper clothes. DNA is sensitive enough that the smaller than a head of a pin hair root, or blood speck is enough.
Nifong’s stat is stupid. It’s not about the common case of rape where DNA is not tested for because it is not probative. The proper question is how DNA could fail to be found in the miniscule quantities needed to confirm the womans version 2 hours after the rape by 20, or 3 men - given the ability to get routinely get DNA off very small samples on underwear, clothing, in orifices, on face, neck, buttocks, thighs, hair.
Courts have already ruled that if secretions are present, and fresh, testing has a high probability of finding it. And if found, even the minutest speck can be introduced into evidence.
And it seems the while Nifong kept it concealed, the testing did in fact have no problem finding and confirming her “boyfriend’s” DNA was on her and in her, but no one elses.
And the Courts also have ruled that DNA is inadmissible when evidence is likely contaminated outside the criminal act in question. Like a fingernail scraped, maybe stepped on, then swept up off a grotty bathroom floor then deposited in a bathroom trashcan full of DNA-laden tissue paper, used dental floss, hair from hairbrushes, barf, semen from some house resident jacking off, you name it….
What may resurrect Nifong’s case is the medical report he was holding for 2 months pending DNA and toxicology, or may hang him for prosecutorial misconduct prior to the trial he wishes to delay. If the woman lied about bruises, about her drug use, nature of the rape, number of people - more trouble for her and Nifong. Especially if Nifong concealed it prior to the Grand Jury indictments.
If the defense attorneys can convince the State DA or court system Nifong is targeting whites under civil rights statutes, concealing exculpatory evidence, or engaging in witness intimidation (team captains, taxi driver), the State or Courts may well bring in an “ad litem” representative to monitor the process.
*****************
And another stat that I am beginning to question is the 15 of 47 Lacrosse players having “horrible” misbehavior incidents resulting in misdemeanor charges….as evidence the Team had run amok, was full of criminls predisposed to rape, season cancellation was merited, and the Coach had to be pressured to resign.
StevenDinMD brought up the interesting stat that the 15 were of 1021 total citations issued to all Duke students, which may or may not include crimes rising above misdemeanor violations. So the 30% of Lacrosse athletes my be very close to the “norm” of male students at Duke, assuming female citations are less for drinking and rowdyism. What is the standard deviation from the norm of Duke football players, of female Asians, black males, etc? How does it compare to citations or criminal backgrounds of students and athletes at NCCU. If drinking and noise citations put someone on the path to gang rape, what groups at NCCU and Duke are also high risk rapists-in-waiting? What other colleges have a heavy hand with respect to University and local police clamping down on student misbehavior and what other groups need to be collectively punished? Shall the stats be watched and when any group at a school doing a hard clampdown reaches 30% of members, they are prohibited from play or meeting? How would that affect the Hispanic Students union at SDSU, the Miami U football team, the GLBT group, Hibernian goth group, the Memphis State basketball team if they cross the 30% or 5% deviation from the male or female student norm threshold??
Good point SteveDinMD..
I don’t really have anything to add to this thread, except to take issue with cfw’s comment, “I know, I know. Just lowering the drinking age, as in Europe would take care of underage drinking.” I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not (if you’re not, my apologies for the rest of the post!). What I can tell you, though, is that much of Europe has problems with underage drinking. I live in Britain, and I’ve travelled extensively around the Scandinavian countries and to Germany. I can tell you from what I’ve seen with my own eyes that there are huge problems with underage drinking in the places I’ve been. Certain parts of Finland and much of Britain are especially bad. The Mediterranean countries have a more mature attitude towards drinking, and in my (rather limited) experience there, less of a problem.
Sorry for being so off-topic, but I can never let that sort of thing go by unchallenged!
I heard it on newshounds.us (the blog that watches Fox news, but is even more biased than Fox) a few weeks ago by someone claiming to be a black grandmom which I also doubt since she/he typed like a teenager and knew little history.
by UNK
UNK, good call. I checked out that site. All I can say is, unbelievable! It’s hard to believe that some people actually buy into these silly conspiracy theories. The “black grandmom’ claims that:
1. The ATM photos were staged (yeah, right!)
2. The ATM transaction was actually a deposit of the $400 they took from Miss Magnum (the accuser)
3. The photos of Miss Magnum had the time stamp altered with Photoshop (huh?)
4. The photos of Miss Magnum’s arm was edited in and that it was actually a White woman’s arm (wtf?)
5. The player who had the cell phone calls, just kept hitting re-dial and was not making calls and that he had plenty of time to rape Miss Magnum (huh?)
There were others that were even more stupid and bizarre.
It will be interesting to hear the theories that come up if the DA decides to drop the case or the state drops the case.
Just for kicks, I float another one….The Duke players used a new type of condom that deletes all traces of DNA. They also used a new type of date rape drug that can’t be detected for 5 7 months later.
The defense reported on Saturday that the DNA reports indicate recent sex (maybe motile sperm noted on exam) ruling out sex on another day.
Since DAs/PD don’t do prelim investigation weeks _after_ you indict (like swabbing a known sex contact), the May 3rd DNA sampling of the “boyfriend” essentially explains one part of the story.
Looks like Nifong was boxed in.
The Likely Scenario:
1. The rape exam at Duke found semen so Nifong was 100% sure that a sex act had occured.
2. The AV claimed no recent consensual sex so Nifong “knew” it had to be LAX DNA,
3. The DNA came back entirely negative (1st round) and Nifong was stunned since he knew that the serology and exam showed sex.
4. The Black community demanded a prosecution (the cheering NCCU gymnasium crowd) and Nifong promised to do it, publicly (on election eve).
5. Nifong indicted on Photo ID alone.
6. Nifong made the huge mistake (from his POV, not justice) of sending the material to a 2nd lab.
7. The 2nd DNA results came back around May 3rd showing a “mystery man” had had sex with her.
8. Nifong freaked, reinterviewed the AV with the new evidence in hand. She said “Oh, yeah, there was this guy….”
9. Nifong claimed to the media that the DNA “wasn’t back yet” and LabCorp did a rush analysis matching one person to one sample (always the easiest).
Truly remarkable that you know what happened at this point in the case! Tell me, how is that you have access to all the evidence? I’d love to see it, too.
Couple clarifications -
Steve in MD: From wht I have heard, routine DNA testing is not all that expensive. Kits for swabs mailed to a lab are about $350.
Recall that the coach recruited the lax team. Part of the misconduct cited in the lax report was in the reruiting process (binge drinking with HS recruits, I gather). Misconduct as a team getting worse year over year created legal exposure for Duke.
“3) The broader membership of teams, clubs, societies, or other university associations should not face collective disciplinary action for the transgressions of individual members.”
This is fine but the University can and should be allowed to shut down (or discipline) groups that create legal liabilities or risks for the University by the way they do their team activities.
“4) Coaches, professors, and other university employees should not be held in any way accountable for student offenses in which they themselves were not participants, which they neither organized nor encouraged, which did not occur during officially sanctioned events, and which did not occur on university property.”
This seems like a bit too much immunity for the coaches. If they are recruiting with alcohol, or looking the other way about such recruiting, they ae creating legal liabiliies or risks for Duke, and Duke needs to be able to say “not with our imprimatur.” Same in business, with “over the line” business development tactics - management needs to be able to pull the plug.
Lizzie: Two related issues need unbundling, I think. I consider binge drinking, of a chronic sort, a type of alcoholism - a health and mental health problem. It is not age-dependent - it is eveil for those from 11 to 101 in age. It calls for treatment.
But passing or citing laws that say “no drinking until 21″ do not impress me as more than political gestures, as applied to college kids these days. The age laws lead to disrespect for the criminal law, abuse by folks like Nifong, and no particular deterrence of drinking on campus. I would venture to guess that binge drinking now at Duke is no less of a problem than it was in 1978, when the drinking age was 18.
So, the Brits and Finns and Russians and Americans have drinking problems, but not the same underage issues (unless they have a 21 drinking age).
The knock on the lax coach, in my mind, was turning a blind eye on a form of binge drinking alcoholism.
“In the interest of securing a higher justice, perhaps it is time for North Carolina to abandon municipal elections as the mechanism for selecting District Attorneys. Perhaps DAs should be appointed by the Governor with the advice and consent of the State Legislature. This would encourage the application of uniform standards for qualifications and temperment, and reduce the likelihood of local political considerations from warping the application of criminal justice.â€
Pretty much every word of this comment is misguided.
How can you rail about “tyranny†in one comment, and then suggest an alternative that removes the selection process from the will of the people in the next breath? And the idea that somehow political considerations are less likely in a political appointment v. an elected official… ”
Comment by tvd — 05.13.06 @ 10:38 pm
In response to tvd, I would first care to note that appointment of District/State’s Attorneys is common in the U.S., and that U.S. Attorneys are appointed by the President. Few would denounce the Federal and various State Governments as tyrannical in this regard. The “will of the people” is not frustrated in these instances. Rather, the will of ALL the people is brought to bear in the selection process, not just the will of a few.
Is not the appointment process political? Yes, it is, and unavoidably so, but it generally involves a far broader political consensus than one can expect from a county election. Elected officials invariably reflect the biases of their constituencies, and this phenomenon is especially pronounced in locally elected officials. What kind of blind “justice,” for example, can one expect from an out-of-control DA elected in Klan Kountry Kounty? I’m sure I wouldn’t like it, and I’m also sure the vast majority of citizens in any State wouldn’t like it, either. If the DAs were all appointed, NO one would ever have to suffer through such a thing.
Then there’s the issue of proper authority, and in whom it is to be vested. Criminal statutes are STATE laws. They are enacted by the STATE Legislature, and are to be enforced by the Governor, a STATEwide elected officer. It makes no obvious sense to me why the prosecutorial power of the State should be delegated so far downward as to be wielded by people with such narrow constituencies, held to NO statewide standard of acceptability. Appointment and oversight of prosecutors is only a natural and prudent exercise of State authority.
Appointment also provides for immediate accountability. An elected DA, such as Nifong, need only submit to the (local) people’s judgement infrequently as part of the election cycle. He is otherwise free to (mis)manage his office as though it were his personal fiefdom. By contrast, an appointed DA serves at the pleasure of the executive, and is subject to immediate dismissal should his actions deviate from acceptable standards of practice. No one should be left a law unto himself, not if justice is to be upheld and preserved.
Tracy states:
“It’s hard to believe that some people actually buy into these silly conspiracy theories.”
Sadly a few people do, and it appears to be an element of major racist theories by the “oppressed†such as: Jews are running everything, the Pope commands and protects Catholics, Free Masons run the government, and the White man knocks down all successful blacks (O.J, that Atlanta black mass murderer, and any black woman.)
Oppression of course occurs, but it’ almost never the result of an international conspiracy. Fox news may be politically biased, I might even buy that some of the white reporters have subconscious racial biases, but I would bet my life that Fox news is not being paid millions of dollars to protect rapists.
Now that if think about it, if Fox news was around during the Civil War, Fox would be busy demonizing Southern whites, by having light-skinned blacks describe in sexual details all the perverted things they were forced to do – as much of the press did then. Didn’t white northern Christians fight the civil war at least partly to end slavery? I am sure the radical blacks have some other explanation.
Fox news just reported that DA Nifong is expected to seek an additional indictment in the Duke rape case this week. Can this man not be stopped???
UNK:
Actually, the Southern “Christians” seceded in large part to defend the institution of slavery against growing political opposition in the U.S. as a whole. They feared an eventual Constitutional ammendment to abolish slavery, and their fears were not without merit. The overwhelming bulk of U.S. population growth was at that time occurring in the Northern industrializing states, thus ensuring a growing anti-slavery majority in the House of Representatives. Furthermore, states were no longer being admitted to the Union in pairs, one slave and one free. All States likely to be admitted after 1860 were expected to be FREE, thus ensuring an eventual anti-slavery majority in the U.S. Senate. Eventual political opposition to slavery in the South was therefore well expected.
For their part, Northerners initially fought the Civil War to achieve very narrow objectives — preservation of the Union as constituted ante bellum. As the costs of the war grew to exceed any justification on narrow grounds, they were compelled politically to expand their war aims to encompass structural modifications to the Union designed to defeat any future tendency toward sectional strife: e.g. abolition of slavery, supremacy of Federal law and authority, broad based political participation, etc.
My remarks in response to cfw are interspersed with his/her original text below.
———————————————-
Steve in MD: From wht I have heard, routine DNA testing is not all that expensive. Kits for swabs mailed to a lab are about $350.
SteveDinMD>>>>>> I never made any comment regarding the cost/availability of DNA testing. You have me confused with someone else.
“3) The broader membership of teams, clubs, societies, or other university associations should not face collective disciplinary action for the transgressions of individual members.â€
This is fine but the University can and should be allowed to shut down (or discipline) groups that create legal liabilities or risks for the University by the way they do their team activities.
SteveDinMD>>>>>> How did the team create any liability? Beyond this, how can one justify shutting down a whole program because a number of people who participate in that program might/might not have done something wrong on their own time, off campus? Lets, for the sake of argument, hypothetically suppose a statistical analysis reveals that black students at Duke are disproportionately involved in criminal violations or other incidents involving police intervention. Would you advise shutting down the Duke chapter of the NAACP or the Black Student Union as an appropriate response to “collective” wrongdoing? I don’t imagine you would. Collective punishment is ALWAYS abusive and always wrong.
“4) Coaches, professors, and other university employees should not be held in any way accountable for student offenses in which they themselves were not participants, which they neither organized nor encouraged, which did not occur during officially sanctioned events, and which did not occur on university property.â€
This seems like a bit too much immunity for the coaches. If they are recruiting with alcohol, or looking the other way about such recruiting, they ae creating legal liabiliies or risks for Duke, and Duke needs to be able to say “not with our imprimatur.†Same in business, with “over the line†business development tactics - management needs to be able to pull the plug.
SteveDinMD>>>>>> If the coach was recruiting (illegaly, I might add) with alcohol, then in accordance with my recommenced principles he would NOT have been entitled to any “immunity.” In fact, he should have been dealt with long before this whole rape controversy reared its ugly head. That the administration didn’t take action earlier would seem to be an indication that it didn’t take the offense seriously, or judge it to entail any significant “liability.” That the administration should be “shocked” only in the aftermath of politically charged accusations does nothing to enhance its credibility in the matter. Even a blind person could see that the university was looking for a convenient scapegoat in order to get out from under the bad press.
Sticking with the liabilty theme, Duke was in no way liable for the actions of the lax players even if the rape allegations were true. They were acting on their own time, as individuals, outside of any sanctioned activity/event, and off-campus. What sort of liability, I ask, does Duke NOW face as a consequence of slander and character assassination directed against the innocent lax players? It could be immense. Brodhead should never have opened his mouth.
Comment by cfw — 05.14.06 @ 11:20 am
It’s just amazing to me how this case is developing and being judged through the eyes of public opinion. The district attorney has not even presented his case yet and probably will not until next spring.
The young man with the “so-called” alibi is probably the one person who stood out the most and was very easy to recall and identify. This person was photographed wearing a short-sleeved, “bright-red shirt” and was presumably in front of the alleged victim. She identified him as the person who forced her to perform oral sex.
Just because a woman has had sex with her husband or boyfriend does not mean she could not be raped.
OF COURSE it doesn’t mean she wasn’t rape, but people can make inferences based on what they know so far, can’t they? Just look in the mirror, Gerald. Based on reported evidence, you obviously believe the woman is telling the truth. So why can’t we, based on the same evidence, come to a different conclusion? I am not a juror or judge; I’m a blogger with an opinion on the case, for crying out loud, and I don’t have to wait before expressing that opinion. - Admin
>>>>>You know, such comments are tedious and boring. OF COURSE it doesn’t mean she wasn’t rape, but people can make inferences based on what they know so far, can’t they? Just look in the mirror, Gerald. Based on reported evidence, you obviously believe the woman is telling the truth. So why can’t we, based on the same evidence, come to a different conclusion? I am not a juror or judge; I’m a blogger with an opinion on the case, for crying out loud, and I don’t have to wait before expressing that opinion. - Admin>>>>>>>>>>>>
LOL; thanks for the welcome. I made my very first post and surprisingly received a reply that it was seen as boring and tedious. I have not come to any conclusions concerning the guilt or innocence of anyone surrounding this case. I only shared an opinion and if its not welcomed, I will truly understand.
I removed the “tedious and boring” part because it was gratuitous, but I wasn’t fast enough. I don’t mind opinions different from my own, as you’d know if you’ve been reading this blog for more than a day. I just don’t like hypocritical commenters, “LOL.” You have an opinion of the case and expressed it. Fine. But don’t criticize people for making judgments when you’re doing the exact same thing. Dissenters are welcome; hypocrites are not.
And comments like this: Just because a woman has had sex with her husband or boyfriend does not mean she could not be raped… rub me the wrong way. It’s too obvious and trite. OF COURSE having had sex with a spouse or boyfriend beforehand doesn’t mean a woman can’t be raped, and NOBODY on this blog made such a claim. The focus is on THIS case, DNA (or lack thereof), and the accuser’s credibility. So why the strawman? It’s a stupid statement, and I have no patience for it.
The one thing I don’t see discussed on this blog is the kidnapping charge. Is it possible that the DA could press that charge alone, or must it be in concert with the sexual assault/rape charge? What would constitute proof that she was kidnapped? Would the bathroom have to have been locked? Would she have to prove that she was physically restrained from leaving the bathroom?
I bring this up because kidnapping alone is a very serious crime and Nifong could be keeping that as his ace in the hole if the other evidence doesn’t hold.
Well, I’m certainly no legal expert, just curious. This whole case is so bizarre, I wouldn’t be surprised at what happens.
Steve:
I suppose I treat the withdrawal of sanction for a lax team as a business decision, not punishment.
If Edwards (or one of his skills) got in front of Durham jury after a true triple white on black gang rape, with a Nifong clone as a judge, I could see a million plus in comp damages.
Duke has what, five billion in assets (endowment). One percent of that is 50 million (punitive damages).
Theory of liability - Duke owned 610 N. Buch. (premises liability). Look also at the nuisance theory - not reining in drunks.
The liability “hook” could be found with clever lawyers and a willing plaintiff-oriented judge.
Let’s assume Duke had not hired Brodhead - who should they have hired?
Woodrow Wilson was at Princeton, Eisenhower at Columbia. I cannot picture either doing much different.
Giuliani probably would have deferred to Nifong (prosecutors get convictions 90% of the time, after all).
Plug in Truman or Roosevelt or Bloomberg or Abe Lincoln or George Washington, I still do not see the events unfolding much differently.
Who do you think would have done a better job than Pres. B and why?
Let’s assume Duke had not hired Brodhead - who should they have hired?
Someone similar to Terry Sanford.
Assuming the boys are falsely accused – they may come out ahead with a book deal like most of the people in the OJ case and be able to swing the publicity to their advantage – assuming the case is resolved.
Leaving them up in the air, maybe they did it, maybe not, would ruin their lives.
cfw:
Your fears of liability are completely misplaced. Before there could be punitive damages, there must first be compensatory damages, and there would be no basis in Tort Law for any such judgement against the university even if the accuser in this case were actually raped. You say Duke owned the house on Buchanon Street. So What? No potential liability attaches to such ownership beyond the ordinary exposure common to any landlord. Had the front porch collapsed and injured the woman, there would be liability. If she were injured through the willful, malicious actions of a tenant or guest thereof, there would be NO liability. In fact, were an attorney to bring such a claim in many U.S. jurisdictions, not only would the case be dismissed, but the attorney bringing the claim could be held in contempt of court and face sanctions. No attorney would take the case and risk that. The accuser could always forge ahead pro se, but that’s a joke. What Brodhead has done is to effectively exchange one instance of NO liability for forty some odd instances of REAL liability. His stupid, intemperate actions could (and should) wind up costing the university millions upon millions of dollars.
What about Duke’s reputation? It’s ruined because of this, and adverse consequences could be expected to compound for many years to come. Here’s a case in point. My brother-in-law and his wife have two high school aged sons, one a rising senior and the other a rising sophomore. The two boys are each among the top academic performers in their respective classes, and one is a gifted athlete (baseball). The boys’ parents had wanted very much to send them both to Duke, and could EASILY afford the tuition and associated costs. Guess what? The boys are now forbidden to apply to Duke because their parents refuse to place them in such a hostile environment. This is but one example, but I think it’s one that will be repeated countless thousands of times in the coming years.
Finally, I don’t know why you’re so certain that Washington, Lincoln, Wilson, and other (deceased) notables would have taken the same approach as Brodhead were they in his place. I tend to believe quite the opposite. I also find it strange that you would have placed Brodhead in such august company. Personally, I would have grouped him together with Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Michael Nifong. Birds of a feather flock together, after all. Who would have done better? Who WOULDN’T have? I’d personally expect better from anyone who possessed the common sense God gives a groundhog.
Good Blog today LaShawn!
I am also an African-American who is very upset by the race card being used in this case from the very beginning when the AV screamed rape of these men.
Rape already is a very difficult crime to prove, and this cannot help true rape victims.
If Nifong carries this case to trial, and he does not have any compelling evidence then I am gonna want to see his head roll when this case is over.
But of course the Durham residents are the ones who are going to elect this guy, so there is not much anyone can do.
From what I hear is that he is going to indict a 3rd player tomorrow. This indictment will be based on DNA evidence. From what I hear is that the 3rd suspect is a guy who lives in the house. His name is Dan, and is the guy who she identified with 90% certainty.
Meanwhile if this woman is falsely accusing another player, then we will have his picitures all over the media, ruining his image just like the first two.
I hope these 3 boys are willing to fight back after this is all over.
So she was kinda sure about the guy. The DNA under the nail no longer attached to her and found in the trash can could only be stated by a Prosecution leak to be “consistent” with the same person ( whatever the hell that is suppose to mean), and that is going to be enough for the prosecutor to indict? Not 100% sure in her OWN WORDS and DNA does not prove a match. No other evidence that has surfaced in the public. Anyone doubt that reasonable doubt is present in any reasonalbe constituted jury of his peers?
Steve,
Appointed DAs? Remember Durham is in this mess BECAUSE Niffungo WAS appointed by the governor to fill out a term for the DA appointed to the bench. With the crooked state of the Democrat party, which curently has a lock on politics in NC, appointments of anyone is NOT a good idea. Ask the boys on the LAX team. Would a secure DA who had been elected once indict these boys, I don’t think so. State wide elections or non partsian elections would not help much. We find here in NC non partsian elections mean Democrats don’t want to run as Dmocrats, so they make it non partisan. Don’t know the answer here, except strong laws for recourse for wrongful prosecution. Kemp
Kemp:
It sounds like you have some real problems in NC! Anyway, would Nifong have prosecuted the case had he been securely elected? I don’t know, maybe not, but I imagine he would have had even less motivation to prosecute if he had been appointed to his position WITHOUT ever having to stand for election in the future. Who knows? Perhaps the governor wouldn’t have appointed him in the first place had he known that Nifong would be HIS problem for the duration.
Steve,
What is even funnier about this is that the Gov went to NCCU Law school, he didn’t get in UNC and he is the first NCCU grad to be a governor, what a hoo. NCCU is a Black University left over from our days of seprate but equal. NC has FIVE historically Black Universities. Including Jesse Jackson’s Alma mater, NC A & T. Oh, AND his wife teaches at NCCU. Guess who’s side he’s on? Kemp
Well I think this is what happened. The guys were made cause they ordered white strippers and two old black strippers who hadkids showed up, so it was not what they were looking for. THe feminists have been asking why selignman made so many calls so quickly. well i assume that he was calling his girlfriend and he didnt want to be there. he really wanted to leave probably for whatever reason he didnt want to see the strippers. racial comments were made, there was an argument. a fight? i heard that in the beginnning assault charges were being considered against the false accuser. her father has said her and her “boyfriend” fought often. i dont think this is her boyfrined i think its her pimp, she did work for a seedy escort agency people forget that she admitted having three johns a week. i kind of want a trial so all the truth can come out. and i dont think its damning that a plastic nail contants some DNA.
I agree with StevenDinMD on Brodhead making the situation worse by adding to the Nifong statements of being “sure rape happened”, various PC forces that rallied around the “victim” unquestioningly in the early days, and the media eager for the “unusual crime”.
“Unusual” is the “man bites dog” rare story the media craves dearly, but rarely gets: A female serial killer. A celebrity pervert. A pack of privileged white animals gang-raping an oppressed woman of color..
The media blows off the routine. Duke gets 60 sex crimes a year referred to it’s victim center with little coverage. Durham has over a dozen murders and brutal rapes a year that get little attention. Outside NC, sensational crimes involving jocks and of an interracial nature never become massive national stories. Two cases happening almost simultaneously with the Duke case involve a Star black QB at Navy raping a white cadet, and a 1st for the Coast Guard, a black football player facing military trial for 7 counts of rape, sodomy, extortion, intimidation, and assault and battery on 5 white female cadets.
Part of the reason the military academies kept the two rapes and upcoming trials from becoming media firestorms is that they avoided feeding the media beast with statements or actions that assumed guilt or innocence of the accused. They had no intent of making other colleges equal stakeholders in “resolving outrage”, community relations were not in the picture, and they neither tossed the accused to the wolves or shielded them.
SteveD writes a good final “rule”:
In criminal matters, the university should take no action, nor should it issue any statement that might tend to prejudice the outcome of any case. In particular, the university should in no way undermine the accused’s presumption of innocence.
What appeared to happen was Broadhead was he became convinced by Nifong, PC forces within Duke, community leaders that a crime had been done by the Duke players and that he effectively had to throw the team and the coach to the wolves to “show” various parties he was “serious”. In doing so, he undermined Duke and his accused students by actions that seemed to confirm Duke itself believed the charges were true. Seeing this “confirmation” of criminal acts by Duke Administration just dumped gasoline on the media firestorm.
***************************
On testing…Apparantly, the confidence level that a single cheek swab will be adequate to get ample DNA sample quantity for testing is 99.99%. That, if there is fresh semen in any orifice of a victim, or on the victim, the victim’s cloths, odds that it will be found if tested for properly, also approach 100%.
The full medical report, her toxicology, and accuser’s statement describing “rapist” actions and how she received various injuries in the alleged rape have not been released to defense attorneys or media. With 2 indictments and clients preparing a defense, I imagine the player’s lawyers are demanding release to them of those evidentiary materials to them to see if there are exculpatory facts and grounds to pursue a dismissal of charges before trial.
Basically, does what the accuser said in her statements and responses to medical questioning about her injuries and details of the rape match up with the facts, or show more lies? What do the toxicology results, which the DA has almost certainly since it’s been 2 months now, show??? Drunk? Recreational drugs? A roofie? A roofie she gave herself?
Hopefully the public will learn some of the details…
*********************
The fingernail is another thing. Was it loose and previously unused as indicated by lack of adhesive? Were any of the fingernails recovered outside the 2 students wastecan found to have DNA on them? Or was the accuser a “one-finger scratcher and rapist-fighter”? Do any of the fake fingernails show scrapes or other damage indicative of a violent struggle?? Were any of the other items in the trashcan likely to have cross-contaminating DNA on them retained, separated, for comparison to the fingernail?(Apparantly not!).
After a Sat. conf. call among defense lawyers, one told the Durham paper theDNA report says the semen in the accuser was deposited immediately prior to examination. What the heck does that mean? Surely not within six days. But the afternoon before the party? Just before the party? She was picked up by police “dead drunk” at about 1:00 a.m. and in Duke Medical Center for exam around 3:30 a.m. Maybe Durham police need to explain her whereabouts from 1 a.m. on. It gets curiouser and couriouser Duke Law Grad
Regarding premises liability for rape, look at cases out of California. AV had attorneys jumping at the chance to take her case when it looked like a real rape. I think they were serious.
I agree a tort case for a rape victim is a stretch, which is why I assumed 1) top plaintiff’s lawyer, 2) friendly judge, 3) friendly jury. I also assumed Nifong got a criminal conviction first, of each assailant for rape.
If I were general counsel for Duke, I would not prefer that suit risk (with my assumptions) over the risk of suit for canceling a lax team or a lax coach’s contract. Would you?
Why Steve is ballistic about Brodhead escapes me. Any transcript of remarks you find offensive? Any letter he wrote that gets you seeing red?
Seems to me anger is being displaced from Nifong (where it belongs) to Duke and Brodhead.
If we look at Brodhead’s staff, I am still not finding any betrayal of S or F.
Two Duke visiting faculty I believe acted improperly, and some students, but that is not Pres. B, is it? Students and faculty have 1st Amendment rights to hold candles, vigil, bang pots, etc, yes?
Terry Sanford was an FBI agent before he ended up as President of Duke. Also a democrat, senator and governor, noted for his stance in favor of civil rights for blacks. I doubt he would have done more for S and F than Pres. Brodhead, between March 13 and April 10.
“I also want to know if the accuser in this case will be arrested for a false rape claim? ”
Aside from the chilling effect of discouraging real rape reports, I have also been wondering that if the alleged victim was not able to stand, get out of the car, or give her addresses to the other dancer to be driven home (her purse was left in the house, so I presume the other stripper was unable to get her address) – was she sober enough to know what happened to her even if she believes she is telling the truth?
This would cut both ways – both her testimony should be discounted as impaired, and her ability to knowingly filing false reports would be impaired.
I also want to know if the accuser in this case will be arrested for a false rape claim? â€
UNK - “Aside from the chilling effect of discouraging real rape reports, I have also been wondering (about impairment)….
So falsely crying fire in a crowded theater where dozens of people are hurt in a panic to get out should NOT be punished because it has a “chilling effect” on future people properly crying out a real fire is happening in a crowded place?
The rape activists think so and urge false accusers be allowed to escape punishment and retain anonymous false accuser status on those grounds, but I think not!! And, for the record, the Supreme Court disagrees with the feminists. They also disagree about the fact of someone being drunk or drugged up as they shout “Fire” falsely is somehow mitigating. Being on meth for a month and seeing hallucinatory flames causing you to scream fire in a crowded theater doesn’t get one off, nor passing out while drunk in a car and plowing into a crowd exculpates because “whiskey did it”, nor can a drugged up whore shouting rape blame her drugs or booze for her inebriated conduct and accusations..
The other tactic the rape advocacy feminists try when a false rape accuser is caught dead cold is to try and avoid any punishment or divulgence of her name on grounds she was (1)Troubled;(2)led a hard life;(3)no purpose would be served by punishing her other than petty revenge, when she as a “disturbed victim” really needs to move on and achieve “closure”; (5)Surely the police have better things to do than punish a disturbed woman and the media revealing her name would only “hurt her family”…..
I think the tide is turning the other way, especially when the media has expanded past the liberal MSM monopoly so beholden to the feminist agenda and race card players…And people are beginning to note the massive damage false accusers have on other people’s lives and the justice system.
My guess is that in the future, you will see false rape accusers in handcuffs doing the same public perp walks they forced their innocent victims into, and facing harsher charges and more doors for civil lawsuits. You will also see the crime of rape written with commonsense legislation rather than the feminist-fostered laws that presume male guilt. You will likely see hate crime hoaxers also held to account criminally rather than “the 3 Lefty activists found drawing swastikas and “nigger” all around campus to “energize outrage and sensitize people” will be left un-named so they can “move on” after receiving psychological counseling…”
The Internet has largely put an end to the ability of false accusers to hide behind voluntary MSM rape shield blackouts. Once Kobe’s accuser was pretty well tagged as a troubled slut who went to Kobes bedroom and voluntarily made out with him, and showed up for her “rape test” with 3 men’s semen in or on her, one who had sex with her 12 hours before Kobe, Kobe’s, and one who had “lengthly intercourse” with her 2 hours after the “rape” - her name and pic and certain life details were all over the place on thousands of Sites.
**********************
I think the problem is society has to work out norms for accuser and accused, so that shield laws cannot be used by one party to publicly defame and humiliate the other in the mass media - while in the safety of total privacy afforded by shield laws. Child molestation was another area, where, though Michael Jackson is creepy and maybe a molestor, a family of grifters was able to play him in total privacy for almost 2 years before he was found innocent, and even after the verdict, the MSM largely kept the accuser and the grifter mother’s name and faces from the public.
I don’t think keeping both the accused and accuser completely shielded from media attention is possible in any alleged crime, as some say…that bin Laden should remain anonymous until a jury or some All-Wise Lawyer in Robes waves a magic wand saying his name can now be revealed after a 9/11 deluxe trial and conviction.
Or a superstar like Kobe. Its stupid to say “for valid reasons we cannot explain, Kobe will miss the next 10 games…”
Best that laws only shield younger children.
Best Regards,
Chris
Steve: About sending kids to college, I doubt you will find a Duke equivalent that lacks a flock of left-leaning students and visiting profs.
I suppose one could look at Brigham Young for right-leaning social standards, but do the prospective students want that scene? If not, the “forbidding” of Duke (or a Duke analog) analog would possibly backfire.
Dartmouth has a reputation for red-state thinking (among a minority), but binge drinking there is as bad or worse than Duke.
Military academy standards seem admirable, from a red-state perspective, but that choice of semi-monastic college lifestyle is best left to the student, yes?
I am not sure there is any Duke-quality (by US News standards) university run to National Review conservative standards.
If there is a to “red state” thinking university, I am not sure it makes sense to force one’s kids to take that route and shun Duke (though I believe that the payer gets to call the shots, within reason).
Trying to pick colleges with sensitivity to quality of town/gown relations makes sense. Also relevant is whether you find black culture nearby a good thing or a bad thing. I happen to consider black southern culture nearby a good thing - look at best novels from 1940 to 1965 (Invisible Man) and 1980-2005 (Beloved) - both by black authors about black themes.
I read, I think it was in the line-up transcript, that the stripper suggested that there might have been four students that attacked her (this was after she initially stated it was 20 players and then pared that down to three). Some of the newspapers are saying that “indictments” may be forthcoming. Will there be more than one young man indicted, today? I wish she could get the story straight. This is like the Salem Witchcraft trials. The story just keeps growing by leaps and bounds! These players seem to have no rights at all. All the A/V has to do is point and say “him”. What a travesty. I still would like to know why the men she accused of raping, beating and kidnapping her when she was 14 years old and a minor have not been charged with crimes against a child? I don’t understand why child protective services did not get involved. Aren’t they by law required to investigate accusations of sexual assault against a child? Why has no one looked into this? It seems so obvious that either the police or state child protective services would have followed up on these accusations. Why is the press not pursuing this? What findings in the first accusations of rape,beating and kidnapping did not lead to arrests? Even if the A/V did not press charges, she was a minor and someone should have done something. Is the system that flawed or was there more to this tale than we are being told?
“After a Sat. conf. call among defense lawyers, one told the Durham paper theDNA report says the semen in the accuser was deposited immediately prior to examination. What the heck does that mean?”
Jim, this probably means they had plenty of little swimmers alive and kicking. From a fertility site
http://www.babyhopes.com/articles/sperm-survive.html: “Sperm, in the vagina, can only survive about six hours due to the acidic vaginal secretions.” The five days theory is for sperm that make it into the fallopian tubes; cervical discharge right at ovulation can support them for up to two days.
This meant it happened right before or right after the party…another of Ms. Mangum’s lies, I guess, since she said she did not have sex with anyone else days before…
another of Ms. Mangum’s lies, I guess, since she said she did not have sex with anyone else days before…
Do you have a source for this comment? I have not seen any quotes form her on her sexual activity. If she has in fact bald faced lied, Nodong has a problem, she impeached his only direct witness.
Well, I just checked the line up transcript and sure enough she says there was a fourth player who attacked her. She goes from 20 to 3, now to 4 and apparently there may be more. I hate to say this but, I can’t imagine any of these young men wanting to have sex with either of these two nasty women.
Belle Wrote: “I hate to say this but, I can’t imagine any of these young men wanting to have sex with either of these two nasty women.”
Agreed!!! The thought of any of these guys getting stimulated enough to have sex with either of these ladies is beyond me. Everyone with whom I’ve discussed the case (male and females) has made the same comment. But as one friend said, “Skankers need loving too.”
I have found that when things get too complicated, it is usually the obvious and simplest explanation that is the truth.
Gary, she herself has never made any statements; it is all through NifWRong and he sets off my bovine feces detector. However, there have been no recent quotes about it; a lot of blogs ask if she had herself some rough sex before arriving at the party. NifWRong condemns tha lax players and ONLY the lax players but admits “someone else could have raped her.” (like her bf?) He had stated that whatever happened it was not consensual.
It was already released that there were no non-lacrosse players at this party so that rules out the deposit occurring at the party.
I remember before charges were levied, there were statements where the forensics lab said no sex occurred at that point in time. The doc and nurse found injuries “consistent with” rape. However, bruising and such can occur with consensual sex, and if she was an “escort” her tricks are not going to be sweet and gentle with her.
Slurpie, even a 1 becomes a 10 with enough intoxication; by the morning she becomes a coyote date and you are chewing your arm off to get away…
However, I don’t know too many men who want someone who may have had five other men in the hour before she got to him. At least they are not admitting to that….;)
You know, it’s a shame the accused young “men” aren’t Southern white boys. (sarcasm off) Can you imagine *THAT* outrage?
I thought Nifwrong has admitted that there were non-players at the party. I can’t imagine in a college town like Salem, …err..ahhh… Durham, that there were no non-players at this party. BTW, I don’t know if Beer Goggles really would make a difference here. Could the strippers have left angry because the boys weren’t buying?
With the taste of his own foot still lingering in his mouth, District Attorney Mike Nifong has another piece of evidence blow up in his face, I wonder how’s his ulcer is doing?
So would it be his own aura or is it the universe’s way of getting back at Nifong for destroying these young boys lives?
It would be funny if Nifong’s ulcer leads to a colonoscopy, or would it be “ironic†or “poetic justice†that he screws 47 boys over a false rape claim and have to take a 36 inch colonoscopy tube up his @ss for his part in the fiasco he created.
They are innocent! The drunken black stripper with the long criminal record and history of making false accusations…lied.
• Stripper made a false claim of rape by three boys in 1996.
• Stripper made a false claim of kidnapping in 1998
• Stripper charged with larceny, auto theft, and trying to kill a police officer in 2002
• 1st round of DNA shows no link to the lacrosse team.
• 2nd round of DNA shows no link to the lacrosse team
• DNA proves stripper had sex with boyfriend/pimp which accounts for the “rape kit†evidence of recent sexual activity.
• Innocent boy who picked up finger nail and threw it in the trash left his DNA on the fake press-on nail and will be charged for rape.
The stripper’s account of the night has serious integrity issues:
1) First she claimed 20 boys raped her, then she narrowed it down to 3 in a bathroom
a. The bathroom is absolutely and completely devoid of any evidence of a rape. Where is her DNA? Urine, blood, vaginal fluid, saliva, or tears?
b. Many people’s DNA were found under her nails but none from the innocent lacrosse boys.
c. She lied about losing her fake finger nails in a desperate struggle in the small enclosed bathroom, but pictures show that she removed her nails before inadequately performing her routine. No scratches were found on any of the innocent lacrosse boys’ bodies.
d. The 2 innocent boys she “eeny meeny miney moed†to be her rapists weren’t even at the party the time she claimed the rape occurred. She claims that she’s 100% sure, but she told her father that she’s not sure.
e. She took drugs before coming to the house, something illegal.
The stripper obviously lied, and she’s putting these innocent boys and families through hell. She deserves to be in prison for the rest of her pathetic life. She is worthless as a person and human being. Her one lie destroyed innocent boys. I hope her and Nifong’s aura catches up to them and they both get what they deserve. I hope everyone wishing this rape claim to be true, in spite of all the evidence that it never occurred, gets what’s coming to them.
I was surprise of how many false rape accusations have been made by several independent surveys reveal that 42% to approximately half of all accusations made are false. Most cases involve divorce battles involving the custody of children, some for revenge for withdraw of affection, monetary gains, an excuse for infidelity, or misidentification.
• According to the FBI, one of every 12 claims of rape filed in the United States are later deemed ‘unfounded,’ meaning the case was closed because the alleged victim recanted or because investigators found no evidence of a crime.
• Howard County Police classified one out of every four rape allegations as unfounded in 1990-91.
• The National Association of Schoolmasters/Union of Women Teachers says around 600 teachers a year are falsely accused - a trebling since the 1989 Children’s Act.
• Citing a recent USA Today article, discussing the miracle of DNA and FBI studies of sexual assault suspects, DNA testing exonerated about 30% to 35% of the more than 4,000 sexual assault suspects on whom the FBI had conducted DNA testing over the past three years.
• Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, in over 40% of the cases reviewed, the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred (Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994).
• 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over 25% of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test or after they had failed it, that no rape occurred.
• 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive.
• Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney’s Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape, says, “there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about 50% simply did not happen.”
• Craig Silverman, a former Colorado prosecutor known for his zealous prosecution of rapists during his 16-year career, says that false rape accusations occur with “scary frequency.” As a regular commentator on the Bryant trial for Denver’s ABC affiliate, Silverman noted that “any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes.” According to Silverman, a Denver sex-assault unit commander estimates that nearly 50% of all reported rape claims are false.
Belle, I think the original police reports indicated there were no non-lax players there. NifWRong had to change that because he knew the vaginal swab did not match!
OK, I have been Googling and have issues with the news constantly referring to her as a Navy veteran. She got into the Navy and left after a year or less. She did not do her time. She used that hackneyed “I’m pregnant so I need to get out” clause that gives women a bad name.
I read on one blog how the Navy threw her out for getting pregnant out of wedlock; they do not throw you out for pregnancy but getting pregnant by a man not your husband may cause problems.
She sounds like another person who could not handle the life but wanted the benefits. You don’t get benefits when you don’t do your time.
Then again, these same news sources have romanticized her adulterous affair, too. If a man cheated and knocked up his mistress they would not be so sanguine.
(OK off my soapbox now…back to regularly scheduled program…)
Thanks for the fact list meagain. I have a friend who suffered through a false allegation. The Navy believed the woman, who was pissed off about being a one nighter instead of a relationship. He paid dearly.
It happens a lot but no one wants to see that. Personally I think they should get the same sentence as a rapist for destroying lives.
Glad to see you found the DOJ report.
LASHAWN! Did you see they did indict another kid? David Evans, he lived in the house too! I can’t believe this! (I didn’t see it posted on your site, if I over looked, I’m sorry) JUSTICE for these boys please!
There may be more. How do you get a value of “90%” sure????? Can anyone tell me? I wonder who will be next?
Well of course a resident’s DNA is in his damn house. Odds are the DNA is from the poor guy’s nose or ears since the nail was in the trashcan.
Will this travesty of justice cease?
“She deserves to be in prison for the rest of her pathetic life. ”
“Personally I think they should get the same sentence as a rapist for destroying lives. ”
Mellow out guys. Very few “rapes†are as black and white (no pun intended) as the evil rapist and totally innocent victim OR the vicious false accuser and totally innocent man.
Most date rapes are more like the Kobe case or that other Duke case where the usually drunk parties are too drunk to give consent and too drunk to recognize that consent was not given or too drunk to remember – with no witnesses watching to sex so it’s a he-said-she-said situation.
I don’t know, but if this alleged victim was too drunk to remember her address or phone number to get a ride home, she may have been too drunk to remember what happened – not good but not a heinous felony.
“Was there any blood evidence or semen from the three found on her?”
I hope nobody else has mentioned this, but need I state the obvious?
It’s possible to rape someone without drawing blood or ejaculating.
I didn’t want to be graphic, but I intended to convey the idea of trying to bite “it” off if oral sex was forced, drawing blood. It looks like I should have stated the obvious.
You were doing OK up to this point, so please don’t start resorting to terse and trite statements like these. - Admin
I am no expert, but I don’t think it is possible for 3 ment to beat, strange, sodomize and rape a full grown woman in a small bathroom without any forensic evidence. Even without ejaculating there would most likey be some sperm.
Joe Chesire for Man Of The Year!!!!!!!
Belle, Belle, Belle! Pay no attention to the improbablity of this rape having happened. That is no longer the point. Read the latest update to the post.
Well, if the entire evidence against Evans is his identification by the victim; and if the victim’s ID was wrong (she’s 90% sure it was him, but he had a moustache!)–and pictures of Evans from the day before show he had no moustache–then the case must fail, because there is now no evidence against him.
(But try telling that to Nifong. . .)
In fact, if Evans and the other two team members had not talked to the police at all, and helped them in their search for evidence (i.e., the false fingernails), but had refused to talk until they had legal counsel, and then had gone home and emptied their wastebasket–Evans would not be indicted now and probably the other two would not be indicted either.
Sic semper justice in North Carolina. . .
Belle, it may now be four men. Forget the logistical nightmare of four big men, a not so small woman and a 5×8 space. It happened because Nifong needs to win, whoops, I meant he has proof that it did…;)
Belle,
There were non players at “the party” and none have been contacted. The good news, if any, I’ve been told Seilgman has been offered a scholarship to Yale to play LAX. Take that Nifugoo. Kemp
Kemp, I thought the original report stated it was strictly players and no others.
Besides all that, the only evidence of sexual activity has her boyfriend all over it (pun not intended…)
As a PS, if it is true about Seligman, it is for the better that he go to another school. I got word that David Evans, the third victim of our declothed Tawana, graduated yesterday.
re: “The good news, if any, I’ve been told Seilgman has been offered a scholarship to Yale to play LAX…”
too bad ivy league schools don’t give athletic scholarships…maybe if he gets back the $400k his parents posted for bail, he can afford to transfer there…
I didn’t want to be graphic, but I intended to convey the idea of trying to bite “it†off if oral sex was forced, drawing blood. It looks like I should have stated the obvious.
Fair enough. Oh, and by the way, um, ouch.
A couple of points:
(1) If THAT happened, there’s probably better evidence than DNA on the alleged rapists’ you-know-what. Even given the time lapse between the incident and arrest, that wouldn’t heal fast, assuming (as I do) that the bite was forceful. I don’t know if they have been physically inspected — has anyone heard?
(2) Since you raised the subject, I thought it might be helpful to know that under NC law, forced oral sex isn’t the crime of “rape”. It’s the crime of “sexual assault”. “Rape” is only vaginal intercourse, or helping someone engage in vaginal intercourse (like holding the victim down).
What exactly have these kids been charged with? Rape, or sexual assault, or both? Have they all been charged with the same thing? That might be a clue into the prosecution’s theory of the case as to what (supposedly) happened.
First-degree forcible rape, sexual offense and kidnapping - Admin
So, there was no DNA from any lax player under the “victim’s” ACTUAL fingernails, just on 1 of the 5 fake nails found in Evans’ bathroom trash can. Obviously, the “victim” stopped struggling when she broke a nail. I’m sure Mr. Nifong can act out a demonstration of this at his next press conference.
LaShawn, I notice that you’re not the only one putting “boyfriend” in quotes. ABC News does the same thing–they do it three times just on the first page of “Mystery Man Revealed!”
Could it be they find the description of “boyfriend” a little dubious? I’m guessing everyone’s figured out by now that it’s her pimp.
Yale does offer “need based” scholarships; a smart guy who is a good athlete and had to cough up nearly a half million to get out of jail on what is probably a false charge could be considered “need based.”
Was the “boyfriend” a pimp, or just some slime mooching off her? She worked for some aleazy escort service that insists the girls are not hookers (but most have price lists and/or things they will do on their photo pages…)
I am totally convinced that these boys did rape this woman. In the Twilight Zone. Which is where the accusers head is most of her life.
aleazy=sleazy…I can spell but can’t type…:)
The stripper’s parents think she is being portrayed unfairly! She is a “good” girl, they say. They will be on 48 Hours soon.
You are right Yale doesn’t pay to play, but I heard he has been offered a place on the team and admission. There was no police report as to which players were there and who was or was not there. Not all the players were there and at LEAST three non players were there at “the party”.
Belle
Its on Comcast right now. I watched a black reporter for ABC Troy somethingorother talk to her parents. If your parents dont support you are really up a creek. Beyond that, I saw nothing of particular value in the interview. /Accuser is said to be having nightmares, losing weight and developing ulcers. Post traumatic stress or a guilty conscience. Where you fall out on the accusation will be also where you fall on why she is having these symptoms.
Gary, I agree with that; both sides of the spectrum can produce those symptoms. Could be fear, and could be guilt.
Kemperman, thanks for the update; I read reports of the guest list being only lax guys. However, the only evidence of sex is still the boyfriend.
As for Crystal’s parents: I am sure they mean well and no one wants to believe their kids are anything but good. However there is too much documentation that indicates she is not a “good girl.” Exttramarital affairs, kids from affairs, arrests, allegations, accusations with charges filed, taking off clothes/turning tricks, no wait..that was “going on one-on-one dates with men for money”…sorry, mom and dad. Spin all you like if it makes you feel better, but it just is not happening.
I am thinking of a third approach though, could she have been set up by the PR-hunting other stripper? Drugged and robbed by the one who was supposedly on her side…
cynical, I think that might be a possibility. Didn’t the boys say the strippers went into the bathroom together and wouldn’t come out? Why would two women who had just met, go into a bathroom together? Why did the second stripper let the false accuser get into her car? Second stripper claimed she didn’t know the false accuser. What happened during the time they were in the car and the bathroom? Afterall, we know the second stripper is a thief. Maybe this whole thing was some sort of set-up from the beginning. Could they have known each other prior to this night? I bet a lot of these “ladies” know each other. I bet a lot of them know the BF’s, too. Could this have been all orchestrated?
Cynical:
“I am thinking of a third approach though, could she have been set up by the PR-hunting other stripper? Drugged and robbed by the one who was supposedly on her side…”
Very interesting suggestion. A drug like Valium could have kicked in between 12:10 (when AV and Roberts were in bathroom) and 1:22 (security guard calls in passed out AV). Roberts could have stolen the $$. Roberts made a remark about wondering if AV was setting Roberts up. Sort of a strange remark, unless Roberts was trying to cover what she did to AV.
Another possibility: Maybe pimp plus Roberts had a discussion with AV and roughed her up a bit (consistent with rape) in the Kroger lot, then told her to claim rape, theft, etc.. Might be interesting to see cell phone records of Roberts and boyfriend for March 13-14. NSA probably has what we need, eh?
Strange that Nifong did not charge any assailant with theft (of cell phone, purse, ID, $$).
Belle and cfw, this is what made me wonder about a third scenario. The other stripper said that she did not get her money and thought the accuser was hustling her. They disappeared together into that bathroom during the time, and SHE could have been the date rape drug slipper…
Kimmy steals, this we know. While Crystal is certainly no stranger to the illegal, she has not been busted stealing 25K from her prior employer. She did not run out and hire a PR firm (or try to) nor has she sued (yet.) Kimmy steals, she hustles, she lied about what went on at the party…calling 911 over name calling but never mentioning rape, acting like she did not know the accuser and she just jumped into her car.
While the most likely scenario is Crystal hustling the team and school, another possibility is Kimmy doing it. Or the two of them being in on it…or the bf being in on it. The only proof of sex would have me believing the bf is the rapist.
Now, Al Sharpton and NAACP have started a web-site to show support for the stripper! It is called ourheartsworld.com - I tried to go to it, but it comes up page unavailable. You think ol’ Al would have learned his lesson with the Tawana travesty. Anyway, they think the stripper is being portrayed in a bad manner (ya think?), so you can go there and offer her messages of support.
Well, if said woman is portrayed in a bad manner it has nothing to do with her life now, does it?
I knew strippers that did not do drugs, did not turn tricks, and did not stay in it for life. I had a friend who was; she invested her money, paid off her house and car, had no bills and left to go to college/work for corporate America. She refused to get into the seamy underbelly of drugs and prostitution but confirmed that at least 80 percent of her coworkers were doing this. She said it made all dancers look bad and management was quick to eliminate them but there were always more. And she NEVER did private parties without a bouncer!
I can’t feel bad because Crystal chose poorly. Sorry but had Crystal stayed in the Navy for her extra year (and used birth control when messing around) she would have received the GI bill, which would have covered her education. She chose to get out; not sure what discharge she got but a general was what I heard…heard both under honorable conditions and other than honorable.
You would have thought Al would learn after Tawana but hatemongers of any color never do. Why they had to turn this into a race thing is beyond me…I had read the namecalling went both ways.
I’ve just been at the Fox News website and watched the 6 minute statement by Evans and the 7 minute follow-up statement by his attorney, Joe Cheshire.
The Evans boy and his family have my sympathy, my prayers, and my solid belief in his and his team-mates’ innocence. I’m more convinced than ever of their innocence as a result of seeing young Mr. Evans speak, and then hearing my friend Joe Cheshire speak on his behalf.
I’m an attorney in southeastern NC, but grew up in Raleigh, Joe Cheshire’s hometown. Grew up in the same church, as a matter of fact. Known him, I guess, since the late 70’s, and always enjoy seeing him down in my district when he’s trying a case. His dad, who died just a few weeks ago, was one of the finest gentlemen of the North Carolina Bar, and was right up there with the Atticus Finch model that we of the bar still hold up as an “Ideal.”
As they say in these parts, the acorn didn’t fall far from the tree. Joe Cheshire V has the utmost and highest respect of lawyers in this state, both for his extraordinary professional talent as a trial lawyer and for his extraordinary personna as a warm, honest, humorous sort who looks after his clients’ best interests every step of the way — and by I mean that he’s going to get to “truth and justice” with his client in the corniest, most old fashion sense of the word.
Where am I going with this? Most all of my trial experience is in civil litigation, and most always I defend. If investigation reveals the truth that my civil defendant is negligent, has breached a contract, whatever — then it’s in my client’s best interest to avoid the risk of an adverse trial verdict and seek a settlement. And I tell ‘em that.
Same goes for Joe Cheshire and any other good criminal trial attorney — if the investigation done by the attorney points toward damaging (and admissible) truths, well, hell’s bells, crawl to the DA’s office on a Friday afternoon to work out something that avoids high odds of an adverse trial verdict!
What I see here, though, is Joe Cheshire going to the DA’s office, time and time again, with the “truths” revealed by his own investigation, and prior to indictment!! He hasn’t been coy about a dang thing, hasn’t parsed his words, and fears nothing about pre-trial statements that many trial attorneys fear could come back to haunt them and their clients’ best interests if there might be a scintilla of disingenuousness brought out at trial.
What puzzles me here is that Mike Nifong, a colleague of the bar adjacent to Cheshire’s district, apparently won’t even meet with Joe to talk about a case that is impacting the futures of three young men. Cheshire and the other defense attorneys are offering Nifong damn near all the free discovery of their evidence he wants or could ask to see — and he’s not even taking them up on the offer to talk, much less the chance to look and see!!
Something is badly awry here if Mike Nifong, who up until recently was an assistant DA who has probably tried many a case with Joe or has worked out many a plea with him (OK, I’m speculating) won’t even take a respected colleague’s offer to talk about a case. And, that’s where Joe is coming from when, in the closing minute of his 7 minutes of comments, he said this case is proving to be one of the saddest in the history of our state’s system of justice.
Stuart Egerton, Wilmington, NC (aka TaterCon)
Ms. barber. My grandfather always told me…You can judge a person by the quality of his friends. Please remember this while you are sponsoring this blog. To speculate about a personal tragedy is not only wrong, but useless. And to pander to/for someone who owns all the weapons of personal destruction is not being very brave or just. Finally would like to Samuel Cartwright, a 1800’s racist social commentator. “There is no office that the negro…covets more than that of being body servant to a real white gentleman”. “They are delighted to be at the elbow,behind the table..,or black the shoes, or to perform any menial service”. This innate love to act as a body servant ..is too strongly developed in the negro race to be concealed”. My interpretation is that that black apologists and accommodators(?) for white people are plentiful and genetic in nature. While I normally do not quote racist commentators, your blog and your statements about a personal tragedy justify and amplify Mr. Cartwright’s observations. No matter how much you speculate, this a a family tragedy for all the person’s involved.
My friend says she would bite in this situation and the hell with the consequences. This is what I consider evil in the world. Somebody like nifong weasling every way he can to twist the legal process. More power to him. But he doesn’t deserve any type of work in the legal system.
Make an example of him, her, and the Duke hierarchy. The longer Nifong drags this out, the more opportunity he will have to play hijinks and get himself out of this jam that he is in.
Of Course the accuser is probably a nice girl at home but has some problems at night and when she is drunk.
I think this boyfriends position needs to be clarified. If he is a pimp and she is his prositute that needs to be known. They might have just wanted to scam the lax crowd but didn’t realize they would be under such a hot magnifying glass.
Nifong just needs to buck up and get some balls and do the right thing.
Just Wait for the Civil Suit!
No one is talking about this, but I will wax prophetic for a second here.
This criminal case will either be thrown out, or lose in court. It is purely political and the delay until Spring 2007 (after the elections) is transparent.
However, the dark flapping thing that no one is talking about here is the coming CIVIL SUIT by the accuser.
The burden of proof in civil suits is much lower than in criminal. Many suits are settled for large sums out of court just to get it over with (Kobe Bryant) even though no guilt was found in criminal court.
This is a case of blackmail folks - a money grab to be carried out in broad daylight.
So watch - after the criminal case is lost, the civil charges WILL be filed.
Accuser is Worried about Committing Perjury:
The accuser already has a criminal record - stealing a cab and trying to run over a cop with it after a chase (from what I understand).
If she gets on the stand and commits perjury by making false rape claims, she could do some serious jail time.
You hear about how she has “ulcers” and is so upset? Folks, THAT’S why. THAT is why she may in fact refuse to testify in this case. THAT is why Nifong has delayed this case until Spring 2007 (because he KNOWS she will not testify).
I am just hopeful that when the discovery on this case is done before a judge, we have a judge who has the nerve to throw it out.
Case in point - actual convictions have been throw out because the accused was not read their rights at time of arrest. Doing a photo line-up with ONLY Duke Lacrosse Players (like a multiple-choice test with no wrong answers) is MUCH worse than that.
Any judge worth his salt would throw out that line-up evidence from the get-go. No line-up, no case. This thing could die on Thursday folks.
M
Michael, take your race card and go home.
The Silent Rape:
The house where this brutal 30 minute rape supposedly took place is small folks. We are to believe that this woman was brutally raped and beaten for half an hour and the other stripper who was just in the other room didn’t hear a peep?
Wouldn’t a woman scream in this case? Oh no wait, the prosecutor will say she was too afraid to scream - that 5 minutes seemed like 30 minutes, that 3 men seemed like 20 men, that the men didn’t use condoms (no wait, no DNA), they used condoms (no wait, no latex residue or spermicide), they used a broomstick…
One glaring question. When the woman first reported the rape, did she say they raped her with a broomstick? If so, why did Nifong say they used condoms?
THE PROSECUTION’S FINAL ARGUMENT:
Oh I know, they used non-spermicidal animal skin condoms on the end of a broomstick. She was so afraid she had her eyes closed the whole time and couldnt tell that she was being raped with a broomstick - because she felt the condom, she thought it was male genitalia.
Also, because she had her eyes closed, she felt like it was 20 men raping her. By the time she opened her eyes at the end, she only saw the three left and then saw the condom covered broom-handle.
Her watch was running 25 minutes slow so she thought it was 30 minutes when it was only 5 because she checked her watch right before the rape, but the wall clock after the rape.
We’ll call this the MAKE-IT-UP-AS-YOU-GO prosecution.
Bill, not to mention the fact that the bathroom in that house is probably 3×6.And that one of the accused grew a moustache in less than 24 hours to use as a disguise….or just maybe he glued one on. That’s it! He bought a fake moustache to use as a disguise because the store was out of big nose and glasses disguises. Yeah! That’s the ticket!!!! Don’t forget that at one point she also claimed there were FOUR players that raped, beat,strangled and sodomized her. I am sure she will have a sudden revelation and pick out another ‘attacker”. She also id’d Dave with 90% certainty, if only he still had the moustache! But what’s that you say, “he has never, ever had a moustache”???Details…..just minor details……
I think this case has made NC the laughing stock of the country. I wonder if any public official there has the courage to stand up to these politically motivated race baiters. I am thinking not. I guess the stigma of being a white, male somehow can not be overcome. This is a travesty.
Hey Belle,
Nifong has ‘his’ timeline. Well, let me share my timeline with you - the timeline that really matters.
The second round of DNA testing done by a mysterious ‘private’ lab happened to not be available until AFTER the primary election.
Now, the trial will not happen until AFTER the general election - hmmmm.
There is still a good chance a few things will happen here - the entire case will be thrown out in discovery on the 18th due to the nefarious handling of the case (bogus line-up etc) by the Prosecutor. #2 The accuser refuses to testify due to her fear of being nailed for perjury (something she should worry about).
Now that the trial won’t happen until after the elections, Nifong doesn’t have to worry about the latter - does he?
The only consolation for the Duke Boys in this one is that they will probably make millions in book and movie deals when this travesty of justice is done. Maybe they can begin to pay what their legal bills will be by then.
LMAO @ Belle….I can see the team looking for the big plastic nose/glasses/mustache combos a la Groucho Marx so no oen knows who they are.
Bill, I agree that this is going civil faster than you can say Katelyn Faber. Crystal looooves money so much that she refused to give up fake nails and hair weaves in order to feed her children. She will drop out of the criminal case at the eleventh hour, then immediately hire herself a civil lawyer.
On another blog someone heard a rumor that she lost her scholarships due to the publicity but admitted it was unverified. I verified in a NC paper that she requested the university seal her records. Does anyone know if this is true?
(I said no one reporting a crime is going to lose scholarships or financial aid, but if she is making mad cash under the table/illegally then she no longer qualifies.)
Has the prosecutor so far given any justification whatsoever for delaying this case until Spring ‘07? I mean, that is an entire YEAR from now. The tests are all done - the witnesses are all lined up - the accused have all been accused. Why do we need to wait a year?
Nifong, you are a disgrace my friend.
michael wrote:
“Finally would like to Samuel Cartwright, a 1800’s racist social commentator. “There is no office that the negro…covets more than that of being body servant to a real white gentlemanâ€. “They are delighted to be at the elbow,behind the table..,or black the shoes, or to perform any menial serviceâ€. This innate love to act as a body servant ..is too strongly developed in the negro race to be concealedâ€.”
Maybe if you stepped out of the 1800s and to the 21st century the context would be different?? Just a guess.
Life waits for no one, so stop living in the past, catch up and live in 2006.
Why can no one in Durham run in the general election against Nifong? If not a Republican, an Independent? Why not run F. Black as an independent?
I am shocked that a law prof from Duke writes that he supports Nifong still, and supported him on May 2. The fellow must have a screw loose about elections for DA. Duke hired the prof after he served as Chief Judge for the Court of Military Appeals. Based on the prof’s letter to the editor of a newspaper, making the appropriate suggestion that the AV be asked to submit to a polygraph, the prof is probably a bit old and biased in favor of prosecutors.
Lack of any comment from Erwin Chemerinsky from Duke’s law faculty is disappointing. At the least, EC might suggest that the Durham electorate should have a contested general election for the position of DA (voted in my all concerned students and faculty and staff from Duke), based on what has unfolded to date in the lax rape case.
Belle — back to your comment at #131; as an NC attorney, I am really saddened to see folks thinking we’re a “laughingstock”, or at least believing that’s how our court system is going to be portrayed and/or perceived. That’s exactly where Joe Cheshire was coming from in his press statement yesterday — see the end of my (way too) long post yesterday evening (#123 above). It saddens me to see Joe publicly dispairing about a current system of justice — where a DA won’t even return a phone call to a “lawyer’s lawyer” as respected as Joe Cheshire — that is different from the place where his family’s long line of lawyers have practiced, I think back into the 1800’s.
Not all North Carolina DA’s are like Mr. Nifong, and not all NC plaintiff attorneys are eagerly waiting for an opportunity to “take the civil case…” Some of us have remembered, and lament the passing of, the better days — when colleagues of the bar would return each others’ phone calls, would work to schedule proceedings without putting the opposing attorney and his/her client to disadvantage, and when inflated expectations of “pot of gold” wins in civil suits could be tempered by sober reflections on weaknesses of a case before suit is filed.
Stuart E.
Interesting….post 124 is made by a “michael”. Hmmmmmmmmm……….Could it be??????????
“If she gets on the stand and commits perjury by making false rape claims, she could do some serious jail time.” - and similar statements by others
Unfortunately, an unintended consequence of increasing the punishment for “false accusers†(and in a he-said-she-said situation, forget about proving it one way or the other) – is that the false accusers will more often stick to their story until the bitter end and not admit “I was so drunk, I am not sure what happened, but my boyfriend and I had rough sex repeatedly.â€
Comments on this entry are closed.