Update (1:41 p.m.): Rod Nichols, an information officer for the Oregon Department of Forestry, responded to the e-mail I sent Jim Walker. He said the story I linked to is inaccurate. The main points:
1) There is no Spanish language requirement for private firefighting crews or supervisors. The department relies heavily on private contractors, who make their own decisions about how to meet the department’s requirements. Nichols said the deparment has “found it necessary to require that all crewmembers speak English. The requirement that leadership positions - crew boss and squad boss - speak English is sufficient.”
2) No Oregon Department of Forestry employees have been fired or demoted because they can’t speak Spanish. The person who made the claim in the article, Jaime Pickering, isn’t and has never been a department employee, and isn’t a certified fire crew boss, according to the department’s records.
However, this doesn’t preclude Pickering’s employment with a private contractor.
3) I asked if the department checks employees’ immigration status. Nichols said the contractors have the “primary responsibility” to check status of its employees, and the department believes “most” of the crew are in the United States legally. In adherence to federal law, the department records and files I-9 info on everyone hired, including temporary employees for emergencies.
Bottom-line: It sounds like the Department of Forestry uses only private contractors to fight fires, but I’ll confirm in a follow-up e-mail. If there are Spanish language requirements or illegal “immigrant” issues, it’s the private contractor’s fault, apparently. Nichols said a few more things, but I’ll reserve those quotes for a column I may write about similar stories. I’m making an effort to report news instead of simply regurgitating and nitpicking it on the blog.
In other news, Dallas County plans to bill Mexico for treating its uninsured citizens. The U.S. is too kind for its own good. Illegal aliens get free treatment, and working American citizens get the shaft.
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Tell me if this makes sense. American firefighters are being fired because they don’t speak Spanish. In America.
In the United States, native Americans are treated unequally because they speak only the language of their country of their birth. Seems about right!
Eighty-five percent of the Oregon Department of Forestry is “of Hispanic decent” and “do not speak English.” That people working in an American governmental agency can’t speak the language of the government is “a concern,” says Jim Walker, of the Oregon Department of Forestry. Well, he doesn’t put it quite that way. I e-mailed Mr. Walker, requesting a brief interview. If he responds, I’ll update the post. If he doesn’t, I’ll update the post.
The old me would have ranted and raved about how George Bush’s amnesty plan makes this kind of crap worse. But the new elite-thinking me climbed atop a more objective perch and considered a few ideas.
Should we assume that the department hires non- and poor English speakers because there aren’t enough qualified English speakers applying for the jobs? One would think that poor English would disqualify applicants, but that’s obviously not the case. Also, civil service tests have been dumbed down in the last 20 years so that fire and police departments can hire more blacks. (See Denver and Maryland) How do poor English speakers fare on the employment test?
Wow. Taking a dispassionate view of the matter produces far less stress. 
For my Spanish-speaking readers, I’ve provided a rough translation of this post after the jump. ¡Gracias para leer LBC!
Los Bomberos hispanohablantes de América
DÃgame si esto tiene sentido. Los bomberos americanos son despedidos porque ellos no hablan español. En América.
En los Estados Unidos, los Indios Americanos son tratados no igual porque ellos hablan sólo el idioma de su paÃs de su nacimiento. ¡Parece acerca del derecho!
El ochenta y cinco por ciento del Departamento de Oregon de la Silvicultura es “de hispano decente” y “no habla inglés.” Que personas que trabajan en una agencia gubernamental Americana no pueden hablar el idioma del gobierno es “un concierne,” dice que Jim Walke, del Departamento de Oregon de la Silvicultura. Bien, él no lo pone bastante esa manera. Mandé correo electrónico Sr. Walke, solicitando una entrevista breve. Si él responde, actualizaré el poste. Si él hace no, actualizaré el poste.
El viejo mà habrÃa despotricado y habrÃa delirado acerca de cómo plan de amnistÃa de George Bush hace esta clase de la mierda peor. Pero el élite-pensando nuevo que mà subà encima de una percha más objetiva y consideré unas pocas ideas.
¿Debemos asumir nosotros que el departamento emplea no- y anglohablantes pobres porque allà no son calificados bastante a anglohablantes que solicitan los trabajos? Uno pensarÃa que inglés pobre hace descalifique Los solicitantes, pero eso obviamente no son el caso. También, las pruebas de cuerpo de funcionarios públicos se han dumbed hacia abajo en los últimos 20 años para que fuego y policÃas pueda emplear más negros. ¿Van los anglohablantes cómo pobres en la prueba del empleo?
Ah. Tomar una vista desapasionada de los productos del asunto mucho menos enfatiza.
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1. Fire the Spanish speaking workers and deport the illegals. If they are legals, invite them to learn English and reapply for their job when they can speak properly.
2. Employ English speaking workers.
Problem solved
JohnD,
Gosh, it really is that simple, but the government NEVER takes the simple route. While some of the Oregon lawmakers are upset over this Forestry Department rule, and threatening legislation, I don’t think it will ever happen. While nobody is losing their jobs over it, most agencies in my field (law enforcement) here in Oklahoma either offer incentives or hiring preference to bi-lingual applicants. This is happening all over the country, and will only get worse.
I don’t know the details about Oregon, but I do know that a lot of the reforestation efforts in some areas are done by “legal” workers “imported” from Mexico. The crews naturally all speak Spanish; their crew leaders have years of experience; and without them I guess we wouldn’t get the reforestation done.
I’m assuming (speaking from ignorance here) the reason we use imported labor is that the jobs simply don’t pay enough to attract Americans. It’s hard, backbreaking, and requires rugged living away from cities, etc.
Are there jobs Americans won’t do? Yes. Sen. John McCain offered to pay $50 an hour to anyone willing to come to Yuma and work the entire season picking crops. (Note : you have to stay for the entire season, working all day in summer–in 110 degrees heat and more).
Apparently there are no takers.
They’re not being fired because they won’t do the work; they’re being fired because they cannot speak *another nation’s language*–that’s screwed up and wrong.
This doesn’t really have anything to do with Bush’s ‘Amnesty Plan’. And to be honest it doesn’t really have anything to do with illegal immigrants. What it has to do with is very poor employment practices. Instead of firing them, they could have been encouraged to learn spanish, or better, the spanish speaking workers could have been encouraged to learn english
The situation with a majority of non-English speaking firefighters retaining their jobs and native-born American citizens who DO speak English losing theirs is absolutely despicable! I swear, this country is spiraling out of control in an altogether terrifying manner!
(Sigh!)
I am confused. When Spanish speakers join the military, don’t we clear up their (I said “their”) problem or drop them? Commercial Pilots throughout the world must speak English clearly. And all the commercial air traffic control in the world speaks English.
I can see why the cops would benefit from bi-lingual officers. But I can not see how the cops could benefit from an officer who had to have a personal translator in tow.
Perhaps Al Gore could be of help with the fire fighters. It may be that burning trees (global warmers of the first order) have a language preference.
A fire fighting corps is no different from a nursing corps or a military corps or a police corps or and other emergency response corps: if they can’t communicate, they might just as well wear blindfolds to complete the farce.
So what am I supposed to do, being a non-Spanish speaking CITIZEN, when I need to communicate with that firefighter who doesn’t speak English? What if I need to be evacuated or given directions to take a different road or what if I need to tell them my family is trapped? What then?
Lashawn, if this is the new you you’re going to lose this reader. If I want mumbo jumbo garbage I’ll read NY or LA Times.
I live in Oregon and we have a large illegal alien problem.
Ha! My dispassion makes you angry, doesn’t it Rick? GOOD! That’s the effect I wanted. Now do something about the “large illegal alien problem” in your area other than complain on a BLOG! Get angry about the problem and translate that anger into LOCAL ACTION.
I like the Rant & Rave better…
When did ‘Press 1 for English’ become a TRUE option??
This is just another of those attempts to PANDER to the ILLEGALS… I don’t care if the fire fighters can speak Spanish, as long as they can speak FLUENT English as well… Can you imagine going to Mexico and expecting to get a job in THAT nation and NOT being able to habla the lingo??
Not gonna happen, so WHY do WE let it happen HERE??
My question: Is this a state agency? If it is a US Govt agency, the civil service employees would have to be citizens, unless they work for a Govt contractor. If they are citizens and can’t speak English, then why were they allowed to become citizens. Gone are the “good old days” when the citizenship test was given in English and allegiance was sworn in English.
Heliotrope,
Digo el español, entonces esto no es un problema para mÃ. “I speak Spanish, so it is not a problem for me”, but many of my fellow officers do not, and those of us that do, are run around like crazy to assist with calls involving non-English speakers, so yes it makes sense to hire bi-lingual officers, but there is a catch in this.
Since we, as a country, have in the last few years, bent over backwards to accomodate non-English speakers, it is as though none of them wants to make an effort to learn English. Why should they, we are all scrambling to learn Spanish. We print all our official documents in both English and Spanish, many public signs are in English and Spanish, labels on all types of goods, etc.
We have not done this, to such an extent, for any other foreign language speaking group immigrating into this country, instead, expecting that they will learn English. Admittedly, the huge numbers of Spanish speakers flooding into the country has an influence on the situation, but if we continue to go out of our way to accomodate their lack of English, as I said above, where’s the incentive to ever learn it?
Perhaps adding pay incentives, or following hiring preferences in the future for bi-lingual supervisors might help, but nobody in this country should lose their job or rank due to a lack of Spanish language skills, particularly when it wasn’t required at the time of hiring or promotion. Another answer, of course, is to only hire firefighters with a certain minimum level of English proficiency.
As an aside, it is HIGHLY likely that those individuals who speak NO English are, in fact, illegals. Nearly all people who are here legally have some level of English language skills. As someone also pointed out, it is dangerous for the other non-Spanish speaking firefighters, and members of the general public to have non-English speakers working in any type of emergency services job.
>>Can you imagine going to Mexico and expecting to get a job in THAT nation and NOT being able to habla the lingo??>>
Not a problem…as a foreign born person, even if you are a citizen, you can not hold such a position.
Interesting, no?
if there’s a job requirement related to the business, its not unequal treatment to fire people who fail to meet it.
#14 Montie Burchett: Thanks for giving me an incentive to reread my words in #8 above.
I do not mean to imply that our emergency first responders should be bi-lingual. I am 100% in favor of aliens/immigrants learning to communicate in English immediately.
My reference to bi-lingual cops is that the other language capabilities would be an important asset. I can not see any reason to having a cop who does not speak English.
This is raising a number of good points. As has been said many times, it’s useful in some cases to have bilingual civil servants, firefighters, police, people in the post office. Read that word carefully though BILINGUAL. Not spanish speaking, BIlingual, make sure there is a difference. We want to hire people who speak Spanish and English, they’re useless if they can’t speak with their coworkers. Now I may be confused, but these are the firefighters contracted to the forest service, presumably contracted to fight forest fires, now excuse me but I’m pretty sure the lovable forest creatures don’t speak spanish any better then they speak english. What’s the difference.
As to the general problem of America pandering to the non-english speakers, it’s just like affirmative action, the more we hand to them, the less they’re going to reach for. We need to make it harder to live here without speaking english. I’ve travelled internationally and you can get reasonably by without speaking the language, but life is much much easier when you do, hell, life is easier when you speak english. In Russia and Japan, you’re hard pressed to go somewhere that english is not at least passibly spoken. I went to see “The Day After Tomorrow” in Tokyo and it was in English with japanese subtitles. While it might be a little self centered to actually say it, THE WORLD SPEAKS ENGLISH. It’s the international language of Business, Air Traffic, Ocean Traffic, and many other things, learn it and you can get by nearly anywhere.
Being able to communicate with coworkers is key, John, and though it’s not illegal, American businesses contracting with the government shouldn’t hire people who don’t speak English. Requiring English-speaking Americans to be bilingual in order to get firefighting jobs is mad. Now if you’re a business owner serving a Spanish-speaking clientele, it makes sense. But it’s wrong and unfair for a government agency to require it or a businesses doing business with the government, in my opinion.
I’m going to follow up with the information officer for the name of the contractor.
Here’s something to remember: Even if the Firefighters, or anyone else, did learn Spanish it wouldn’t be enough.
They would have to learn “street” Spanish.
There are two kinds of Spanish. The grammatically correct Castillian Spanish, from Europe, which is what we all learned in high school ….
….and then there’s the “Mestizo” or slang/street Spanish, spoken by the vast majority of illegals.
They are two different vernaculars, with different dialects and word meanings.
Oh, you can get by a little….but bad communication is bad communication, in my opinion, unless we are all on the same page and speaking the same language.
La Shawn, I agree whole heartedly, I dunno if I’m misreading or you misunderstood my post, but I agree, communicating with coworkers is key, and as most employed folks in the US speak english, so should their coworkers, I do believe though, that bilingual is a necessary evil in some professions. While a firefighter might not be as necessary as some professions (it doesn’t matter what language they speak, if a guy in a yellow suit and an oxygen mask kicks your door down an flames are everywhere, you follow him.) But in the cases of police officers, and coast guard (if I recall my recruiter offered me a bonus if I spoke fluent spanish). With the fact that there is a statistically larger per capita crime rate in latin american communities (I don’t have the numbers in front of me and feel free to disagree, this is from what I’ve seen and experienced.) It seems reasonable that police be given some special dispensation for either learning or already speaking spanish. Like it or not, they’re here and we need to manage it, a bunch of yelling at eachother in different languages won’t get us anywhere. I have been told by people in that pile that when you do a boarding on a cuban refugee boat or a south american drug smuggling boat, that life is much easier when you speak it. As I told someone who was trying to argue with me that it’s unwise for a girl to be walking around wearing next to nothing alone at night (appearantly she has the right so that absolves her of using judgement): In a perfect world, things would be that way, but you have to accept that whether it’s right or not, you have to plan not to go out at night alone, you have to lock your house when you’re gone and you have to accept that there are people that don’t speak english, and until we get things otherwise, we need to lock our doors, plan ahead and have cops that speak 2 languages. Not cops that speak spanish, cops that speak spanish AND english. Learning a new langauge passibly is not that hard, I speak servicable spanish and I suck with languages other then english. I went to HS with a girl who spoke English, Spanish, Russian, Arabic, and could read Sandscrit, BEFORE SHE GRADUATED! And was well on her way to being fluent in Japanses, if one person can do this before High School ends, how hard can it be for a spanish speaker to learn how to get by in english?
I want to make one thing clear, I’m not advocating requiring govt employees to speak spanish, or penalizing those who don’t I’m simply saying, it’s a useful skill, like typing, or being able to calm a civillian for a cop, and it should be sought and rewarded, because it has a value, but it should by no means be required.
Charles Krauthammer has a very topical commentary on the back page of the most recent Newsweek (or Time-I don’t recall which). Look for it-as usual, Charles makes a lot of sense.
So when the English language is overtaken by the Spanish language what will happen to those who speak Chinese, Arabic, French, German, Danish, Italian, various African tongues etc., when they need public service?
Are all the Spanish-speakers going to be required to learn multi-languages in order to retain their jobs?
Bilingual (spanish/english dominant) is itself racist and inclusive.
Oh I have taken action about Oregon’s illegal alien problem.
I read the blogs just to get a better sense of what’s happening
I will start off by saying I totally disagree with the firing of these fire-fighters. Do we need more Spanish speaking fire-fighters? Obviously, or maybe we need more english speaking hispanic fire-fighters. Are there any incentives on learning to english or spanish by these firefighters other than being fired if you do not speak spanish?
I just graduated the fire academy and many instructors stressed the need for spanish speaking firefighters. How many instructors and cadets actually spoke or intended on learning to speak the language? One brainiac was but he could also tell you the square root of who gives a hoot. That being said I would like to stress my need for english speaking immigrants.
You have to know what it takes to be a fire-fighter to fully understand the disappointment. The classes, the training, ce hours, medical training. You never stop learning and on average it takes up to thirteen applications to get hired. Its not just filling out a sheet of paper either. It is based on examinations, agility tests and a board review.To finally complete this is an accomplishment. Oh, then you get fired because you cannot speak a foreign language. It almost makes you wish you were born blind.
Hi..what contract do you want? Both the national and the inter agency contract have it. and just for the record it’s not just about english(well maybe it is)
I have seen spanish squad bosses pass inspection for speaking english then out on the line someone doesn’t understand them and they redo the test and fail..at this point the contractor is in non compliance and is sent home..a contractor can lose working that year..means lost jobs for the fire fighters that work for the contractor…over in vale oregon their crew bosses don’t even speak english, they use a crew rep.
i’m going to start sitting on the oregon capitol steps every friday at 9 am in Salem, oregon.
Oh by the way i recieved a letter today terminating my MoU. I’m no longer able to provide training. Oh and they also stripped me back to a entry level firefighter. I wonder how many Firefighters have to Die before they see the made a mistake. Call me, come talk to me on the steps of the Oregon Capitol, Support me. My Family, the contractors, the firefighters themselves need HELP.
LaShawn,
It appears you’ve been mislead by the person speaking for the ODF. Take a look at this link:
http://egov.oregon.gov/ODF/FireCrewLanguageRequirement.shtml
It specifically says this:
There is a requirement that supervisors be able to communicate with the workers for whom they are responsible. This is essential to ensure that all personnel are made aware of safety hazards that can develop quickly in firefighting.
Consequently, if private companies elect to hire crew members who do not speak English, those supervisors must be bilingual or multilingual.
and this:
The test will also assure they are able to translate important fire operations and fire safety information to their non-English speaking crewmembers.
This language skill assessment has been used to test 80 contract crew leaders this spring, with 40 more to be tested in July. The assessment will become a required element in contracts in 2007.
Learn more
If you would like more information about the Oregon Department of Forestry’s Interagency Crew Contract, contact:
Jim Walker
Oregon Department of Forestry
Protection From Fire Program
2600 State Street
Salem, OR 97310
PH: 503-945-7437
email: jwalker@odf.state.or.us
This backgrounder was created and posted on June 30, 2006.
I could be wrong but maybe i should say hi Jim Walker.Just my opinion. but seems strange that site was created today by him then the post.
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