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Close your eyes and imagine reading a news story about two white men breaking into a black man’s house in the Georgetown area of Washington, D.C., slashing his throat and killing him, and attempting to rape his girlfriend, also black. Picture a white woman waiting in the getaway car.
Now envision the media coverage. Would it be a stretch to say that newspapers, 24-hour cable TV channels, local stations, national networks, and Oprah would converge on the area and set up camp to provide blanket, non-stop coverage of the atrocity? Can’t you see it? Every race-based group, faux civil rights organization — including women’s advocacy groups — and so-called black leaders and the clownish New Black Panthers descending on Georgetown demanding an old-fashioned lynching…
Story after story, commentary after commentary would be written. It would be pandemonium, just like it was at the beginning of the Duke rape case, when the media believed the stripper-accuser’s implausible and incredible tale of gang-rape.
Now keep all of these images in your mind for a second longer. Hold it. Hold it. Now click on the link below:
Take the man-bites-dog story above, reverse the skin colors, and you’re left with a classic yet ordinarily dull dog-bites-man crime story. A British national named Alan Senitt was murdered. And how was your weekend?
Here’s another scenario:
Earlier this year, David Rosenbaum, a reporter for the New York Times, was killed in his upscale D.C. neighborhood by a couple of black thugs. Standard story, nothing new. Most coverage focused on the life and career of the man. The murderers got minimal coverage.
Had Rosenbaum been a black reporter murdered by white thugs, we’d know where the white men lived, where they grew up, what elementary school they attended, their home address, how much money their parents make, how much their house was worth, etc. The current focus in the Rosenbaum case is the gross incompetence of DC’s law enforcement in handling the case. Don’t get me wrong. The cops should be investigated, but as I said, if the murderers were white and victim black, this crime would take on epic status.
(DC isn’t called the “murder capital” for nothing. After the wise D.C. Council banned decent, hardworking residents from owning handguns in 1976, the violent crime rate shot up. Now, only the criminals and cops have guns, and the criminals know it. Thugs run wild and rampant, killing law-abiding and peaceful people over dumb #$&%, a common scenario.)
Senitt’s murderers won’t get much coverage, either. Had the Brit been a black American and his murderers white skin heads, for instance, liberals across the country would be calling for a nation-wide crackdown on “white supremacists” and trying to implement even more stringent thoughtcrime laws and speech codes.
But black criminal thugs are just plain uninteresting and too common for blanket news coverage. That’s why shows like “Law & Order” thrive. We want to see a white Park Avenue princess poisoning her faithless boyfriend or pushing her rival off the balcony of her $2 million crib, not some black thug blowing his “girlfriend’s” brains out while her children are nearby because she made him angry (I worked on such a case at the U.S. Attorney’s office) or slashing some white guy who won’t give up his wallet.
B-O-R-I-N-G!
Yes, left-leaning journalists find such stories boring, if you can believe it. But a white lacrosse player punching a man, which is against the law, of course, makes them tingle all over. And if that “gay” man was also black (which I don’t think he was)…Oh boy! Collin Finnerty would have to move to some remote, undisclosed island.
Some people like to “watch” the Washington Post for signs of bias and inaccuracies. Others enjoy fisking the New York Times. Too many sad bloggers spend their time “watching” other bloggers. I count myself among the people who watch for media bias over race-related coverage broadly, a bias which almost always tends to favor blacks.
Ideally, news coverage would be fair and objective and skin color largely irrelevant, but it’s not. I don’t make the rules; I’m simply telling you what I see and why I think it’s so.
Addendum: Like David Rosenbaum, Alan Senitt was Jewish. What if the murderers were white, ordinary, non-skin head criminals? Neo-Nazis? Blacks who hated Jews? How different would the media coverage be in those three examples?
If this little girl is black and the rapists are black, you won’t read much else about it. If the majority or all of the rapists are white and the child is black, get ready for Armageddon…
Update: This story won’t get much play…unless the killers are white. To reiterate, left-leaning media are bored with black-on-black crime, white-on-white crime (unless it involves the wealthy), and black-on-white crime.
In all fairness, how many resources can media expend on crime news v. the rest of the news? When it’s potentially profitable — man-bites-dog — then blanket coverage is justified. Just playing Devil’s Advocate…
The Independent Conservative blogs about real justice and healing in Durham. Don’t hold your breath.
Update II: I wonder if the media and civil rights activists are camped out at this trial?
Would it be a stretch to say that newspapers, 24-hour cable TV stations, local stations, national networks, and Oprah would converge on the area and set up camp to provide blanket, non-stop coverage of the atrocity?
Yes.
Comment by Shade — 07.10.06 @ 11:06 am
When facts portray diversity negatively, the media turns into white southern segregationists of information distribution.
Comment by bucktowndusty — 07.10.06 @ 11:11 am
Race, Murder, Journalism
Thanks to a blind link to PostWatch over there, I see La Shawn Barber writing about race in Media and Dog-Bites-Man: Close your eyes and imagine reading a news story about two white men breaking into a black man’s house
Trackback by PostWatch — 07.10.06 @ 12:22 pm
Here is my reason for feeling that this is exaggerated. If you take a year like 2003, statistically 533 blacks were murdered by whites. Likewise for that year, 948 whites were murdered by blacks. Now, based on this, for every two news reports of a black person murdering a white person, there should be at least one news report of a white person murdering a black person. I don’t see this. I see at least 95% of interracial crimes involving blacks and whites on the news involving a white person as the victim whereas statistically, there should be a 2:1 ratio.
The skinhead example is flawed because there is a different dynamic. The media jumps at and sensationalizes skinhead crimes to a point not seen when you simply have a white thug who happens to victimize a black person. I will even agree that the media tends to try and find racism whenever a white person victimizes a black person, but if racism cannot be found, then the media ignores it.
The Duke case is also a bad example. You have a prestigious university and a lacrosse team of mostly wealthy white kids. I don’t recall a precedent whereas a group like this has had such an accusation. Thus, you have something new, you have allegations of racial slurs, etc. Soap opera time.
When the little black girl was molested and strangled in the Vegas casino, if made news based almost entirely on where the crime took place. Most of the media coverage questioned the safety of the casino. Beyond that, little attention was given to the molester because there was apparently no racial motivation that could be found. The killing of Byrd was by racists. If not for Ennis Cosby being the son of Bill Cosby, that murder would probably not have made national news.
As far as a case whereas a white thug, who is probably just a dangerous to whites as blacks, kills or rapes a black person for a non-apparent racist reason, I really don’t see those in the headlines.
Comment by Shade — 07.10.06 @ 12:38 pm
Bucktown, great comment…
Comment by T. — 07.10.06 @ 12:40 pm
In a perfect world, it’s not about race, but we don’t live in a perfect world. When I was in college I saw a statistic that black males committed 4 times as many homicides per capita then any white males or black females, and somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 times as many as white females. You can argue with that but it came from the national crime report, an objective report. If we put that kind of emphasis on every crime committed by a black male, against a white male, it would be constant, and god help us if we covered ALL crimes that way.
Comment by John — 07.10.06 @ 12:43 pm
I only read the Washington Post article, but at first glance while it was definitely a planned robbery, which went wrong into murder, odds are that it was more of a sexual harassment than planned rape, from the woman accomplice and lack of planning.
These dummies (I have no idea if they are black or not since the Post did not say but it’s sort of obvious from the neighborhoods) made the mistake of mixing sexual harassment and groping with rape, perhaps from listening to too much rap.
The one idiot may have not even known what he was doing or that he was leaving his MO all across town – he probably thought he was “cool†or the current rap word for cool.
If you are going to rob people and don’t want to go down for murder, don’t do anything to get your victim to fight back, tell them you just want their money, and have a non-lethal back-up plan.
But it’s safer not to commit crimes in the first place or hang out with the wrong crowd.
One does not want to demonize blacks by showing black criminals 24/7, but after two generations after civil rights, there seems to be a problem with black youth wasting their lives with a unprofitable life of crime, and ignoring the problem is not going to make it go away.
Comment by UNK — 07.10.06 @ 12:54 pm
I don’t interpret this as a bias towards blacks but against them. You get a report on the background of a white criminal because it is assumed that with information and analysis (what went wrong) this kind of criminal behavior can be stopped. It is also shaming for the friends and family of the white criminal which hopefully operates as a spur to white parents to parent well enough to avoid embarrassment. Black criminals, however, are to be expected, that’s just the way it is in a racist society and that’s all the analysis we need. And there’s no sense trying to shame an unknown father and an oppressed, addicted, welfare-recipient mother — that’s piling on, and besides they haven’t even violated the standards of their community because the black community gets their standards from hip-hop, an art form to be adulated because it tells it like it is.
I could go on and on about the insufferable liberal mindset.
Comment by Dale Richardson — 07.10.06 @ 1:05 pm
I was thinking the exact same thing Dale. Good post.
Comment by Shade — 07.10.06 @ 1:18 pm
That’s why shows like “Law & Order†thrive. We want to see a white Park Avenue princess poisoning her faithless boyfriend or pushing her rival off the balcony of her $2 million crib, not some black thug blowing his “girlfriend’s†brains out while her children are nearby because she made him angry (I worked on such a case at the U.S. Attorney’s office)…
Pingback by Godblogcon — 07.10.06 @ 1:20 pm
When Will Those Who Want “Justice” and “Healing” in Durham, North Carolina Speak Out About This?
While some people in Durham are having vigils and other demonstrations over an alleged rape by members of the Duke lacrosse team, a worse crime gets far less attention.
Man accused in car lot slaying
DURHAM — Durham police investigators…
Trackback by Independent Conservative — 07.10.06 @ 1:35 pm
Shade,
You said
“When the little black girl was molested and strangled in the Vegas casino, if made news based almost entirely on where the crime took place.”
And in this case, you have the same thing. This crime took place in a quiet, well-to-do neighborhood (Georgetown) by people who lives miles away from it.
Lashawn can tell you that if 4 white people had come from Georgetown into Southeast and murdered and robbed someone, ABC 7 and NBC 4 would have 24/7 off the hook coverage of this “breaking news”. Mayor for Life Barry and the rest of the Council would be marching in the streets demanding justice. There would be the possibility of rioting all along the Anacostia.
What’s indicative of this case is that people don’t even raise their eyebrows anymore about black crime in DC. We have seen it all and nothing really shocks anymore. And we havent even discussed black-on-black crime.
Comment by e_alex — 07.10.06 @ 2:09 pm
Shade,
You said:
Here is my reason for feeling that this is exaggerated. If you take a year like 2003, statistically 533 blacks were murdered by whites. Likewise for that year, 948 whites were murdered by blacks. Now, based on this, for every two news reports of a black person murdering a white person, there should be at least one news report of a white person murdering a black person. I don’t see this. I see at least 95% of interracial crimes involving blacks and whites on the news involving a white person as the victim whereas statistically, there should be a 2:1 ratio.
THE REASON you dont see a 2:1 ratio is the proportions involved. Blacks make up 10% of the US population yet they have such a staggeringly high number versus whites, who make up about 60% of the population. Thats the main difference that is consistently ignored by black apologists; proportionally black crime as their percentage of the population is so high in relation to every other nationality in the US.
Thats what leads to the “biased” reporting you perceive.
Furthermore, the reporting is area specific. The news reporting for where you live is affected by the proportion of the populations of where you live. DC has lots of reports of black crime because blacks make up 60% of the population here.
If you want more news reports on white crime move to Des Moines or Cheyenne. DC crime reporting on white crime is limited because not many whites commit crimes like this.
Comment by e_alex — 07.10.06 @ 2:14 pm
I agree with Dale. I dare say that when a black man commits a crime, it is just accepted that that is what black folks do. Him being from the “poverty of the Ghetto” and all. However, when young suburban white children commit terrible crimes, this becomes newsworthy because frightened americans must know how to prevent their children from being infected with the “urban ills” invading the suburbs.
I am disinclined to believe that ‘liberal bias’ or ‘conservative bias’ has anything to do with any of these issues. Spin sells papers. And unfortunately (for both black folks and white folks) the “murdering, raping and pillaging negro” story has been run to death.
But don’t worry, stormfront and the CCC will be all to happy to give these stories all the attention the stories “deserve”
Comment by sonnyredd — 07.10.06 @ 2:20 pm
Watch out, e_alex. You’ll confuse the issue with all that “proportions” talk. Black people who quote raw numbers to try to counter the “high crime rate” fact don’t seem to comprehend the staggeringly — appropriate word! — high crimes rates among blacks compared to their proportion of the general population. That is extremely important to remember whenever we talk about race-based anything. It is uncomfortable and sometimes embarrassing, which is why some tend to ignore or downplay it.
Comment by La Shawn — 07.10.06 @ 2:26 pm
Not to point out the other obvious point, but there is a differing perception among different nationalities in the US. The difference between whites Asians, for example, and blacks when it comes to the reporting of crime in the press and how they perceive crime is profound and seems to be ignored by liberals.
Whites tend to become aghast because we find this behavior reprehensible, especially when other whites do it to blacks or to each other. Same for Asians, and Hispanics to a lesser degree.
Many blacks, however, should be disturbed by the fact that there is almost a “glorification of crime” within black subculture. You dont ostracize or disgrace criminals so much as they get glorified in rap videos and made out to be victims. I dont see balck outrage like I see in whites; I see more a resignation and acceptance and sometimes, even glorification of this behavior.
Perhaps Lashawn should also have mentioned the second news story from DC last night; the brutal murder by a prominent liberal black activist by another black man or group of men. Whats even sadder is the murder victim WAS IN A WHEELCHAIR.
Not a peep from the liberal media here about the absurdity of this black-on-black crime.
Comment by e_alex — 07.10.06 @ 2:55 pm
LaShawn, you used the word “lynching” in your commentary above. Interestingly, Kathleen Parker just issued an apology in a column for having used that word to describe the Duke Lacrosse case. I wish she wouldn’t have apologized.
There’s no doubt the horror visited upon blacks by lynch mobs in the olden days. However, it was not an exclusively black thing. A crowd lynched the (white) man accused of robbing and murdering my (white) great-grandfather.
To me, the word “lynch” has taken on a meaning of rushing to judgment against someone without pausing sufficiently to consider that person’s possible innocence. In that sense, no one owns the word “lynch”. I wish Kathleen hadn’t capitulated to political correctness on this point and I’m glad you have not.
Comment by Greg — 07.10.06 @ 3:08 pm
Generally speaking, whites who don’t want to be regarded as racists tend to apologize for their opinions when pressured. Those who don’t apologize are labeled “white supremacists” or some such nonsense.
I say what I mean and mean what I write. Unless I misread something or got the facts flat-out wrong, I won’t apologize for my views or the way I express them, no matter how many nasty e-mails I receive or insulting blog posts my views generate.
Comment by La Shawn — 07.10.06 @ 3:12 pm
La Shawn, so true, so true. That’s what drives me nuts about political correctness (or one of the things): it stifles debate and discussion of ideas. If you disagree with the PC view, you’re labeled as this or that kind of hater.
You as a black female can say things I simply cannot without it being suggested that I’m racist or sexist. But then neither you nor I can speak out against gay marriage without being called homophobic.
They even flay their own, like Lawrence Summers at Harvard who just threw it out there for discussion that maybe men are just better at math and science than women. As Ann Coulter might observe, he spoke against a central tenet of the official state religion (liberalism) and they’ve convicted him of heresy in the ecclesiastical court of the Church of Godless.
Comment by Greg — 07.10.06 @ 3:38 pm
FWIW this story (without any mention of the race of the perps) has got quite a bit of coevrege in the UK such as this BBC story - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/5164356.stm
Comment by Francis — 07.10.06 @ 3:43 pm
Greg, you have just hit my favorite concept, not math and science testing, but when there is a clear difference between the performance of two groups in any catagory of anything, and people don’t want to admit it might be real. Well obviously the tests are racist cause different races perform differently. Maybe, just maybe, people are just not doing well on the test because they don’t know the material as well. *gasp* But I just implied people of different groups were different, but we’re all the same, except when it comes down to who’s fault everything is, that’s where us hetero white males shine!
Comment by John — 07.10.06 @ 3:47 pm
Sorry, I’m not buying your premise. The electronic media is still wallpapered full of black perpetrators. The villains to the American media still have a black face. Take the recent terrorist plot that was thwarted. Now terrorism has a black face thanks to the media.
Comment by B Gad — 07.10.06 @ 4:41 pm
“Now, based on this, for every two news reports of a black person murdering a white person, there should be at least one news report of a white person murdering a black person. I don’t see this.”
If it’s any consolation, the criminals on fictional TV crime dramas are overwhelmingly white way out of proportion to the statistics as most of the crimes are also fantasy.
The TV criminals, being actors and actresses, are also way better looking than real life criminals.
This could be a result of lookist discrimination in Hollywood.
Comment by UNK — 07.10.06 @ 5:16 pm
I figure that you are joking UNK. Fiction TV is an entirely different conversation.
As far as crime rates, people don’t often consider that because of the significantly greater number of whites, a black criminal is 19 times more likely to encounter a white person than the reverse. This is based on a study by sociologist Robert O’Brian using Census data. Based on random chance, blacks actually victimize whites less than would be expected.
Comment by Shade — 07.10.06 @ 5:34 pm
Things Have Changed in Forty Years
Racist reportage of crime–with a twist: La Shawn….
Trackback by Pajamas Media — 07.10.06 @ 5:48 pm
“absurdity of this black-on-black crime.”
With respect, what is absurd about black crime against a black person?
Comment by JohnD — 07.10.06 @ 5:50 pm
“The villains to the American media still have a black face. Take the recent terrorist plot that was thwarted. Now terrorism has a black face thanks to the media.”
I’m the last one to defend the usually indefensible media, but I’m wondering what color faces they should have used in this case.
Comment by RedBeard — 07.10.06 @ 5:50 pm
According to a relative who works in Fresno Ca. law enforcement, all the Fresno College athletes involved in the alleged rape of an 11 year old white girl are black.
Unlike the way the President and professors threw the white lacrosse players to the wolves, the President and football coach of Fresno college arranged for the accused rapists to speak with defense counsel before they were arrested.
Double standards anyone?
Comment by Margaret Collins — 07.10.06 @ 6:07 pm
I also haven’t heard anything in the MSM about the story about Latino gangs killing and driving Blacks out of their neighborhoods in Los Angeles. If this was happening in a white neighborhood, we would be hearing about it every minute of every day from all the media outlets.
Comment by Miss Carnivorous — 07.10.06 @ 6:55 pm
“As far as crime rates, people don’t often consider that because of the significantly greater number of whites, a black criminal is 19 times more likely to encounter a white person than the reverse. This is based on a study by sociologist Robert O’Brian using Census data. Based on random chance, blacks actually victimize whites less than would be expected.”
So explain the high black-on-black crime rate?
And explain what “encounter” means? Encounter implies they are looking for whites….
The last time I checked, the proportional incidents of white-white crime are far lower than black-black crime.
Comment by e_alex — 07.10.06 @ 7:05 pm
HUH?
“I also haven’t heard anything in the MSM about the story about Latino gangs killing and driving Blacks out of their neighborhoods in Los Angeles. If this was happening in a white neighborhood, we would be hearing about it every minute of every day from all the media outlets.”
The LA Times reports this nearly everyday. Plus, if the MSM reported this nationally, it would be a severe blow to their “multiculturalism and diversity arguments”, that somehow makes conservatives all bad. Furthermore, I dont exactly see blacks advertising this problem like they do, say, the Duke rape case. Has Al or Jesse flown into LA for an appearance?
It doesnt fit into the storyline that “all crime occurs because of what whites have done” ….
Comment by e_alex — 07.10.06 @ 7:07 pm
“With respect, what is absurd about black crime against a black person?”
Its not the crime, its the reporting of it.
Where is the NAACP report on this? Where is the outrage on the Tavis Smiley Show, or on BET? Where is the condemnation by Rev. Jesse or Rev. Al?
You can hear a pin drop among black leaders in DC when it comes to discussing the black-on-black crime rate in DC. They usually try the “its white peoples fault” line and then move on to sad resignation and silence….
Comment by e_alex — 07.10.06 @ 7:10 pm
“Would it be a stretch to say that newspapers, 24-hour cable TV stations, local stations, national networks, and Oprah would converge on the area and set up camp to provide blanket, non-stop coverage of the atrocity?
Yes. ”
Ironically, I agree with Shade and not Ms. Barber, but probably for different reasons.
Most likely it was not a rape or even a planned murder and not national newsworthy, other than as a lesson of what lifestyle not to lead. Most likely, based on limited information their true stories are:
Groper Brother: “I treated the bitch like all the other bitches I know. Why did the bitch think I would rape here. Just because I steal money does not mean I steal pussy. Bitches want my junk. I have a right to offer my junk to even white women. You (black and white cops) are racistâ€
Knife Brother: “We had the money and were about to leave when Groper Brother moved on the bitch. I didn’t want no fight, but when whitey started to fight back (to defend his woman friend), I had to defend myself. It was self-defense you know. The white man attacked me. You know what I mean. Even when I knifed him, I was not trying to kill him.
15-Year-old Brother: “I want my mommaâ€
Sidekick Sister: Dumb Groper Brother and Dumber Knife Brother were only supposed to get money so we could buy drugs and party.
If it were a real stranger gang rape, it would be national newsworthy, since it’s rare that stranger rapists brazenly operate in gangs. Also, it’s likely that there is no uncertainly about what happened last night.
Comment by UNK — 07.10.06 @ 7:19 pm
I hate to give criminals credit for anything, but they did not kill remaining witness (the bitch) either because they were hoping the man was not seriously injured and/or they were not totally ruthless killers.
I think when that quadruple Durham robbery-homicide went bad; they tried to execute all remaining living witnesses in the house.
Comment by UNK — 07.10.06 @ 7:39 pm
e_alex
I use the term “encounter” in its first definition which is “to come upon or meet with, especially unexpectedly”-Websters College Dictionary.
The high black on black crime rate is a reality. I’m not denying that. It is much higher. The point is the implication that black criminals are specifically targeting white people. Based on the overall crime rate among blacks, the higher probability of an individual black person (or criminal) encountering a white person, one would expect through random chance that blacks would victimize whites more than is the case and whites would victimize blacks less than is the case.
Hypothetically take ten black people and intermingle them in a crowd with 100 white people. Take one of those black people out, blindfold that person, and have him or her fire several rounds into the crowd. In all likelihood, more white people will be shot.
And I am not an apologist. Nowhere in any of my posts do I make excuses for anyone’s behavior. What I do here is try to paint the picture a little more accurately. The result of the common picture that is portrayed is that foreigners come here and get nervous whenever they see a black person because the media, Internet, etc. has convinced them that black Americans are overwhelmingly uncivilized, violent animals. Most black Americans are good people, yet one would not know this by reading conservative boards and it is such comments that fuel the overwhelming opinion of black Americans that conservative hate them.
Comment by Shade — 07.10.06 @ 8:40 pm
Most black Americans are good people, yet one would not know this by reading conservative boards and it is such comments that fuel the overwhelming opinion of black Americans that conservative hate them.”
I don’t see conservative discussion boards doing any such thing. Conservative boards tend to focus on issues, not character assassination. There may be a couple of lunatics posting messages, but lunacy knows no political philosophy, and comes from every point on the political spectrum.
On a personal note, I’m an arch conservative, yet I don’t know any black people who think I hate them. I know it’s not my charm and grace, because I don’t have any
so it must be rationality kicking in. 
Comment by RedBeard — 07.10.06 @ 9:04 pm
Shade makes a good point.
Liberals paint Blacks as helpless.
Conservatives paint Blacks as lazy, whining, mired in decedence and non-thinking.
Comment by DarkStar — 07.10.06 @ 10:21 pm
Shade Said: “Hypothetically take ten black people and intermingle them in a crowd with 100 white people. Take one of those black people out, blindfold that person, and have him or her fire several rounds into the crowd. In all likelihood, more white people will be shot.”
SteveDinMD: Implicit in your example are a couple of assumptions reflecting dubious validity. First, your example assumes an isotropic distribution of blacks and whites in the population. This is obviously not the case. Blacks and whites, for whatever reason, tend not to comingle freely in our society. If your hypothetical black shooter were to fire those hypothetical shots out his bedroom window, just about everyone within effective range of the weapon would be black. In order for him to shoot a white person, he’d pretty much have to go hunting for one. Second, your example equates deliberate, criminal acts with random chance. On what basis do you justify this? It would be more accurate to construct a model that assumes that those inclined to commit crimes tend to seek out victims that meet their peculiar criteria. After all, when John Dillinger was asked why he robbed banks, he replied, “That’s where the money is!” Present day criminals, I tend to think, are no less rational.
Comment by SteveDinMD — 07.10.06 @ 10:50 pm
Shade,
You appear to be making a rather selective use of statistics, which all politicians do.
But after reading this a second time, it’s just not possible:
“As far as crime rates, people don’t often consider that because of the significantly greater number of whites, a black criminal is 19 times more likely to encounter a white person than the reverse. This is based on a study by sociologist Robert O’Brian using Census data. Based on random chance, blacks actually victimize whites less than would be expected.â€
This overlooks the identity that every time a white person meets a black person, by definition, a black person meets a white person.
For every opportunity a black person “meets†and has an opportunity to do something illegal to a black person, by definition, a white person also has that same opportunity to the same to a black person.
I have not read Robert O’ Brian’s original sociological article, but a brief summary below from
http://www.zmag.org/Sustainers/Content/2004-10/19wise.cfm
As sociologist Robert O’Brian has noted (using Census data), the odds of a given white person (or white criminal) encountering a black person are only about three percent. On the other hand, the odds of a given black person (or black criminal) encountering a white person are nineteen times greater, or fifty-seven percent (6), meaning the actual interracial victimization gap between black-on-white and white-on-black crime is smaller than one would expect.
In 2002, blacks committed a little more than 1.2 million violent crimes, while whites committed a little more than three million violent crimes (7). If each black criminal had a 57 percent chance of encountering (and thus potentially victimizing) a white person, this means that over the course of 2002, blacks should have been expected to victimize roughly 690,000 whites. But in truth, blacks victimized whites only 614,176 times that year (8).
Conversely, if each white criminal had only a three percent chance of encountering and thus victimizing a black person, this means that over the course of 2002, whites would have been expected to victimize roughly 93,000 blacks. But in truth, whites victimized blacks 135,931 times: almost 50 percent more often than would be expected by random chance (9).
Indeed, given relative crime rates as well as rates of interracial encounter, random chance would have predicted the ratio of black-on-white to white-on-black victimization at roughly 7.4 to one. Yet, as the data makes clear, there were only 4.5 times more black-on-white crimes than white-on-black crimes in 2002. In other words, given encounter ratios, black criminals victimize whites less often than could be expected, while white criminals victimize blacks more often than could be expected.
Comment by UNK — 07.10.06 @ 10:58 pm
Shade Said: “As far as crime rates, people don’t often consider that because of the significantly greater number of whites, a black criminal is 19 times more likely to encounter a white person than the reverse. This is based on a study by sociologist Robert O’Brian using Census data. Based on random chance, blacks actually victimize whites less than would be expected.”
SteveDinMD: I can’t see how the math could possibly work out on this one at all. Whites do not have anywhere near a 19:1 numerical superiority compared to blacks. Unless the researcher claims a disproportionate number of blacks living in predominantly white neighborhoods happen to be criminals — which I really can’t imagine being the case — I don’t see any obvious way for him to support his conclusion. What logic is at work here?
Comment by SteveDinMD — 07.10.06 @ 11:06 pm
Post #15 - La Shawn
“Watch out, e_alex. You’ll confuse the issue with all that “proportions†talk. Black people who quote raw numbers to try to counter the “high crime rate†fact don’t seem to comprehend the staggeringly — appropriate word! — high crimes rates among blacks compared to their proportion of the general population. That is extremely important to remember whenever we talk about race-based anything. It is uncomfortable and sometimes embarrassing, which is why some tend to ignore or downplay it.
Thanks for putting it so simply. Debating this issue is like beating one’s head up against a wall…
Comment by Tate — 07.10.06 @ 11:20 pm
UNK, our posts evidently passed each other. Though I’ve read your synopsis of O’Brien’s findings, I don’t find the argument convincing. Assuming the races are evenly distributed across the total population, and assuming criminals choose their victims at random, the racial breakdown of victims (regardless of an assailant’s racial identity) would be expected to approximate the racial composition of the population at large. This assumption breaks down when confronted with the racial isolation exhibited by this country’s black and white communities. Taking this into consideration, racial identities of victims should much more closely match those of their assailants than would be expected if victims were chosen at random from among the entire population.
Comment by SteveDinMD — 07.10.06 @ 11:25 pm
…Just like the BOGUS Duke Rape Case…
Comment by Tate — 07.10.06 @ 11:26 pm
DarkStar wrote:
“Liberals paint Blacks as helpless.
Conservatives paint Blacks as lazy, whining, mired in decedence and non-thinking.
DarkStar, you got the first one right. Liberals do that, clearly.
But the second assertion simply won’t stand up under the light of day. The whole point of most conservatives’ rants about the evils of the government nanny state is in line with the fact that your second statewment is wrong. Conservatives are the ones who believe that all people can achieve and succeed without the government treating them like helpless invalids.
Comment by RedBeard — 07.11.06 @ 7:34 am
Shade,
You are proving my point, though…
Forget the interracial argument, for example, and focus on the raw data.
1.2 million violent crimes for approximately 20 million blacks. 3 million violent crimes for approximately 200 million whites. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE?
As for “conservative” stereotypes, that is just typical liberal garbage. Most conservatives I know have successful, lower, middle to upper class black friends. There is no stereotype because they have nothing to strereotype.
I live next to a public housing project, so maybe I can offer this perspective, though. The “stereotypes” you speak of, in many cases, come from this type of environment. The majority, large majority of even people Lashawn might have some probelm with, are good people, even though they may have some character traits that are questionable. The problem is, because of the ultra liberalism we have to deal with in the US, is that they are FORCED to live with people who even Shade or Darkstar would have trouble living near. But for some strange reason, blacks wont ostracize or turn on these blacks, even when they commit violent acts, ruin the quality of life for nearly everyone else, or show blatant disregard for the normal rules of society.
Thats the crime difference, it seems. There is a palpable sense of anger in whites when we see other whites behave like this garbage (though not without excpetion). There seems to be a subset of blacks, though, that apologize and glorify such activity.
Unfortunately, there is a stereotype that many other ethnic groups have of African-Americans but I can tell you that they didnt come to this country with it. They acquire it over time, and although I think its wrong, you can see where they get it from.
But ask any African man or woman who has come from Nigeria or from Tanzania or from Cameroon what they think of American blacks, and they will give you an earful. Its interesting to hear their perspective….
Comment by e_alex — 07.11.06 @ 7:36 am
I wonder what Shade or Darkstar thinks of comments like this:
In charging documents, police said Rice had told his accomplices before the robbery that he was going to “cut” somebody.
After fleeing the scene, the four suspects withdrew money with the woman’s bank card, police said. Then they went out to eat at a Wendy’s restaurant, authorities said.
Comment by e_alex — 07.11.06 @ 7:44 am
Actually Darkstar is right on both points.
e_alex
Of course you don’t know me and the tendency for some conservatives to try to pin the “liberal” label on anyone who disagrees with them on a certain point is old. I don’t believe in school vouchers. The minute many conservatives hear this, they automatically think “liberal” until they realize that that I am against it because I think negatively of government sticking its nose in education and I see vouchers as a government handout whereas people are getting something free that others are paying out of their pockets for. Thus, my anti-voucher views are more conservative than their pro-voucher views. I hate welfare and I believe that affirmative action should be ended immediately. I don’t like Jesse or Al and the NAACP is meaningless today. I’m against any illegal alien amnesty. I may be more conservative than you.
I recall that Rush Limbaugh used to cite data to show that black people are not nearly in the bad shape that liberals portray. Why shouldn’t his data apply to conservatives who try to show how bad black people are for total different reasons (something Darkstar pointed out)? I always viewed true conservatism as stressing the individual as opposed to groups, yet that seems not the case based on the sweeping generalizations.
Again, I would like for you to point out where I make excuses for bad behavior by blacks. Just because I don’t feel that a black criminal represents black people in general doesn’t mean that I excuse the actions of that criminal. I confront black people PERSONALLY regarding self destructive attitudes and I take a lot of heat for it, yet many appreciate it because they see the positiveness and constructiveness behind it. But when a black person lurks over and Free Republic and sees the ever popular black bashing threads that get over 100 responses, when they see a thread picturing a young black child and he or she is declared a future welfare recipient, and when they see posts of people mimicking stereotypical black English for laughs and ridicule, they tend see the conservative side as hostile which results in a closer move to the left.
Comment by Shade — 07.11.06 @ 10:10 am
SteveDinMD: I can’t see how the math could possibly work out on this one at all. Whites do not have anywhere near a 19:1 numerical superiority compared to blacks.
That’s true but you are looking at encounters based on 1 on 1. If you have a room filled with 20 black men and 1 white man, all twenty of those black men have encountered that one white man.
Comment by Shade — 07.11.06 @ 10:20 am
I wonder what Shade or Darkstar thinks of comments like this:
This is a strawman since I don’t defend nor excuse the actions of black criminals. Do you believe that this criminal represents the behavior of most black people?
Comment by Shade — 07.11.06 @ 10:23 am
Shade
“I don’t defend nor excuse the actions of black criminals”
I am throwing out that “Strawman” because I believe you are using convoluted statistics to somehow justify black crime rates.
I do not believe these men represent blacks at all. My primary reason for throwing that out is I am utterly stunned by the lack of black leadership denunciation. Why havent Jesse or Al flown in for this? Where is the community outrage?
Comment by e_alex — 07.11.06 @ 10:29 am
“That’s true but you are looking at encounters based on 1 on 1. If you have a room filled with 20 black men and 1 white man, all twenty of those black men have encountered that one white man.”
Where are u going with these “20 black men encounter 1 white man” arguments?
What are u trying to show? Look at your stats from real world perspectives.
You start to sound stupid when you make comments like “20 black men in a room with one white man”
What exactly are you trying to show or prove or debate?
Comment by e_alex — 07.11.06 @ 10:32 am
I’m sure that telling someone they ’sound stupid’ is going to lead to positive meaningful dialogue.
Shade, do you live in Texas or the Houston area?
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 07.11.06 @ 11:08 am
I live in Houston Tiffany. And people tend to insult when they are fustrated.
Hypotheticals are commonly used in discussions e_alex.
Unfortunately, there is a stereotype that many other ethnic groups have of African-Americans but I can tell you that they didnt come to this country with it. They acquire it over time, and although I think its wrong, you can see where they get it from.
You should read this and take note of the first paragraph:
http://www.heraldsun.com/durham/4-751477.html
Comment by Shade — 07.11.06 @ 11:27 am
Shade does have a point in that if you stick a crazed black man in a room with 9 white men and one other black man, and he randomly shoots, 90% of the time he will hit a white man and it will be a black-on-white crime.
Likewise, if you stick a crazed white man in a room with 9 white men and one black man, and he randomly shoots, 90% of the time he will hit a white man and it will NOT be a race crime
The point Shade misses is that if 9 white men are crazy murderers in proportion to the one black man and you run the experiment 10 times, one of the white men will randomly kill the black man and the number of “race†crimes would be equal, everything else being equal, which it is obviously not in the real world.
(Sarcasm on) In the real world, thanks for doing the work of the Klan and mostly killing fellow blacks
Comment by UNK — 07.11.06 @ 11:39 am
You are right, Shade. Drinking too much political party Kool-Aid tends to cancel independent thought…LOL!!!
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 07.11.06 @ 11:51 am
So far, I have seen no indication that this case has made any major or national headlines:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Girl_Assaulted.html
Comment by Shade — 07.11.06 @ 3:11 pm
On a personal note, I’m an arch conservative, yet I don’t know any black people who think I hate them. I know it’s not my charm and grace, because I don’t have any so it must be rationality kicking in.
Well, you may personally not have any blacks who hate you, but lets take this example. In his article entitled “It’s Hard Out There for a Black Conservative”, Larry Elders quoted a statement made to him by what he refers to as a “prominent, incredibly successful black businessman”. The quote was “I could never vote for a Republican. It would be like voting for the Klan.”
So he is not voting for a welfare check (as is so often falsy stated by conservatives as the reason blacks vote Democrat). As a successful businessman, he would probably benefit from Republican policies. His voting against Republicans is due to his perception of the Republican party as being racist against blacks.
Comment by Shade — 07.11.06 @ 6:00 pm
Shade,
“Unfortunately, there is a stereotype that many other ethnic groups have of African-Americans but I can tell you that they didnt come to this country with it. They acquire it over time, and although I think its wrong, you can see where they get it from.
You should read this and take note of the first paragraph:
http://www.heraldsun.com/durham/4-751477.html”
Yep read the whole story:
“Latinos seemed unlikely to have absorbed the attitudes from whites, the researchers said, mostly because whites were more positive toward blacks. Only 9.3 percent of whites said few blacks work hard, only 8.4 percent said few or no blacks are hard to get along with and only 9.6 percent said few if any blacks can be trusted. ”
And where do you think that perception comes from on the part of Latinos?
Comment by e_alex — 07.11.06 @ 6:52 pm
Shade,
I am not pinning any lable on you. Just poiting out that you are speaking liberal garbage does not label you a liberal at all.
You are displaying what I think is common though when debates come up about black-on-black crime: hostility and defensiveness.
Furthermore, I am dismayed when I read the typical “conservatives are hostile to blacks” line. In what ways? Where do you see these pictures of blacks portrayed by conservatives as bad? What do you think about black liberal portrayals of blacks, such as Gilliard’s depiction of Michael Steele as Sambo? How is the treatment by black liberals of the black underclass a positive thing for black people? I am trying to understand why you buy into the old “Republicans hate blacks” canard, because frankly, I dont see positive Democratic depictions of blacks anywhere, especially not here in DC.
Comment by e_alex — 07.11.06 @ 6:58 pm
“You are right, Shade. Drinking too much political party Kool-Aid tends to cancel independent thought…LOL!!!”
That should be the new Republican message to the African American population of America.
I am sure it would get “black leadership” into a tizzy…..
Comment by e_alex — 07.11.06 @ 6:59 pm
If it makes any of you feel better, here in San Antonio most of the local crime reporting is about crime committed by Hispanics.
Comment by pete — 07.11.06 @ 7:04 pm
Thats the crime difference, it seems. There is a palpable sense of anger in whites when we see other whites behave like this garbage (though not without excpetion). There seems to be a subset of blacks, though, that apologize and glorify such activity.
Unfortunately, there is a stereotype that many other ethnic groups have of African-Americans but I can tell you that they didnt come to this country with it. They acquire it over time, and although I think its wrong, you can see where they get it from.
But ask any African man or woman who has come from Nigeria or from Tanzania or from Cameroon what they think of American blacks, and they will give you an earful. Its interesting to hear their perspective…
There have been sociologists out the yin yang that have written about the two communities within black society, the functional and dysfunctional ones. Many write of the excuse-making of the functional black society members - how they join in ranks with liberals in absolving the dysfunctional community of personal or collective responsibility - arguing for the last 40 years that “larger Societal Factors” are to blame, therefore anger and condemnation are “counterproductive”.
That it is still grasped despite massive programs that were claimed would “fix” the larger societal factors explains just how powerful this victimhood and solidarity against external criticism meme is in American blacks.
It does affect attitudes when blacks are outraged against an interracial crime against them that they know happened or believe happened - and all the white Democrats and media dutifully come out and say how hateful and unacceptable it was , and demand people of all races share their outrage. But silence on black on black crime or black predators who target other races for victimization. Which is slowly reducing general outrage about hate crime as being selective, being self-serving tribalism..And not just the black white issue it was 40 years ago.
Asians are asking, OK, whyv should we march with you and demand justice for a drunken Asian driver mowing down a 15 year old black kid when “your people” have been silent about blacks mugging people and murdering 3 Asian storekeepers in the last 14 months in our city? And Hispanics have their own variant - “Why should we care about crimes against your people when you don’t care about crimes inflicted against us??”
And the dynamics are interesting. At one time, black criminals were routinely targeting Hispanic & Asian immigrants for intimidation and crime in schools, prisons, and communities in California when the Hispanic population was small. Now the population numbers have reversed and long standing animosities are now working against now-outnumbered blacks.
And African (and Caribbean) immigrants are quite revealing…they come from poorer nations, tough times, and many have rough histories including colonialism and slavery. And are not on some “higher plane” as they have their share of gangs and con artists…..but if you listen to immigrants discussing the pluses and minuses of America - it is most disturbing when one of the most common beefs about America comes out - the behavior of inner city blacks. Especially from black immigrants who have to be listened to…much of what they say so harsh I won’t repeat here.
The old 60s memes do need to go, and an open dialogue started. Academia and the media are complicit. I don’t buy the argument that a gang-rape by 10-15 black football players against an 11-year old white girl is less newsworthy, less offensive to “society” than 3 whites beating up a black homeless guy.
Comment by Chris Ford — 07.11.06 @ 8:10 pm
“His voting against Republicans is due to his perception of the Republican party as being racist against blacks.”
This one man has a mistaken perception. And it is precisely this kind of mistaken perception that must be demolished. The biggest obstacle is the complicity of the leftist media, leftist politicians and phony guilt-plagued white liberals in perpetuating the nonsense.
Larry Elder clearly understands this, and enunciates it daily.
Comment by RedBeard — 07.11.06 @ 8:15 pm
The long and the short of it comes down to this. Blacks, for that matter many minorities, for one reason or another at one time needed government assistance for a large percentage of the group. (For blacks it was because arguably they were unable to recover on their own from slavery and segregation, for other minorities it tends to be because they came here to make a better life, which means they didn’t have much in their old life.) Coming from that, they support the “downtrodden” getting the help they need/deserve. Clearly conservatives aren’t offering it. (That’s sarcasm folks) so it’s reasonable to think, hey, the liberals want to give us stuff, let’s go with them. That’s where it comes from. Most of the blacks and minorities that either climbed up or were carried up by their parents are typically conservative (aka folks like Bill Cosby, Wanda Sykes, Alan Keyes, LaShawn Barber)”I got here, you can to.” The problem is the people who were put in the public eye by raging against not getting what they want/need tend to draw the attention (aka J. Jackson, Many Rappers, Al Sharpton) are all about getting handouts and making sure they get theirs before someone else can take it. That’s where this concept arises.
Comment by John — 07.11.06 @ 8:37 pm
Shade Said: Well, you may personally not have any blacks who hate you, but lets take this example. In his article entitled “It’s Hard Out There for a Black Conservativeâ€, Larry Elders quoted a statement made to him by what he refers to as a “prominent, incredibly successful black businessmanâ€. The quote was “I could never vote for a Republican. It would be like voting for the Klan.â€
SteveDinMD: That’s an interesting point of view from that person, especially in light of the fact that historically the party of Slavery, Jim Crow, and the Klan has been the DEMOCRATS! Republicans, by contrast, have historically stood for Emancipation, full Citizenship, and Voting Rights for black Americans. Blacks used to know this, and voted overwhelmingly for the Republican Party up until 1932. Historical truth, unfortunately, has gone down the memory hole since then, to the point where this successful businessman is in need of a remedial history lesson. He’s not alone.
Comment by SteveDinMD — 07.11.06 @ 9:31 pm
Not a peep from the liberal media here about the absurdity of this black-on-black crime.
That’s interesting because I’ve heard more than just a peep. But I guess it matters where you look or listen.
#44. But the second assertion simply won’t stand up under the light of day.
Sure it will. Read Larry Elder when he mentions Blacks and he gives the impression that all Blacks do is whine about racism and/or “the man”. It’s a nice lie but it falls under the light of dawn; not day, dawn. Jesse Lee Peterson flat out says that Blacks are lazy and don’t want to work. Conservatives and “outraged” liberals claim that Blacks are in lock step over listening to rap, but I know there are a lot of Blacks, young and older, but mostly older, who hate the crap.
I wonder what Shade or Darkstar thinks of comments like this:
1. Strawman.
2. You will never find a post of mine, anywhere on the net over the MANY years I’ve posted on USENET, web chat, blogs, or email lists, where I make excuses for criminals.
#50 My primary reason for throwing that out is I am utterly stunned by the lack of black leadership denunciation.
Your problem is you believe in “Black leadership”. That seems to contradict the principal of people being responsible for themselves. I don’t believe in “Black leaders”.
Where is the community outrage?
The same place the “white community” outrage of, ohhh, meth addiction is? Or how about the “white community” outrage of kiddie porn? Or, more directly, vacations being set up for men, overwhelmingly white men, to go to countries where they can have sex with underaged girls AND boys without fear of prosecution.
Where do you see these pictures of blacks portrayed by conservatives as bad?
Everywhere in the conservative media. I challenged Project 21 to obtain a list of Black groups and individuals, regardless of political leanings, who are doing things to address problems in the Black community. I gave the same challenge to the NAACP. I did this 3 times, and 3 times I received no responses from either group.
Something like blackselfhelp.info. Check it out.
e_alex, since you like to make assumptions about political leanings because someone dares disagree with, here’s some background on me:
1. I support vouchers.
2. I believe abortion kills a baby. Not a “fetus” but a baby.
3. Like Michael Steele, I don’t support the death penalty.
4. Like Michael Steele, I do support affirmative action.
5. I don’t believe in “Black leaders” so I use the term in quotes.
6. I don’t support Al Sharpton. An interesting side note: when Al Sharpton ran for the Dem presidential nomination, he won only ONE majority Black voting district.
7. I don’t support Jesse Jackson, Sr.
8. Note my lack of using “Rev” for either men.
9. I’m not a Democrat, I am a registered independent.
10. I don’t support the idea of “hate crimes”.
11. I don’t support the reparations movement.
12. I support capitalism.
13. I’ve tutored.
14. I’ve fought crime in the neighborhoods I lived in where there were problems.
Comment by DarkStar — 07.11.06 @ 9:39 pm
Shade Said: “So far, I have seen no indication that this case has made any major or national headlines:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Girl_Assaulted.html ”
SteveDinMD: I don’t think it has received any media attention, either. This is the first I’ve heard of it, at least. From the description in the article, it seems to be an open and shut case: Two white men with alleged KKK sympathies abducted and raped two black females, one of whom was just 15 years old. Furthermore, they stabbed the 15-year-old in an attempt to kill her.
These were heinous crimes, and I hope the two perpetrators never walk the streets as free men again. Why hasn’t this received any significant media attention? I don’t know. From the news account, the two alleged rapists don’t appear at all to be sympathetic or tragic figures. They appear to most closely resemble human garbage. Maybe the public isn’t captivated by stories of crimes committed by people they can’t identify with. News, after all, is a business, and the editors will predictably give the people what they want.
Comment by SteveDinMD — 07.11.06 @ 9:47 pm
Most of the blacks and minorities that either climbed up or were carried up by their parents are typically conservative (aka folks like Bill Cosby, Wanda Sykes, Alan Keyes, LaShawn Barber)â€I got here, you can to.â€
Wanda Sykes and Bill Cosby?
Conservative?
See, that’s why the labels are a joke.
Comment by DarkStar — 07.11.06 @ 10:43 pm
DarkStar says: “Sure it will. Read Larry Elder when he mentions Blacks and he gives the impression that all Blacks do is whine about racism and/or “the manâ€. It’s a nice lie but it falls under the light of dawn; not day, dawn. Jesse Lee Peterson flat out says that Blacks are lazy and don’t want to work. Conservatives and “outraged†liberals claim that Blacks are in lock step over listening to rap, but I know there are a lot of Blacks, young and older, but mostly older, who hate the crap.”
DarkStar, it almost seems like we’re listening to 2 different people named Larry Elder.
The one I listen to doesn’t lump all blacks into a single category, any more than he lumps all whites into a single category. He attacks liberals of any race, and the culture of victimization that liberals have created.
Focusing on race is a classic tool of liberals. It’s what they disingenuously use to advance their Nanny State dream. The honest statement, the one they never quite make, would be: “You people, you poor victims, can’t do anything on your own. You’re incompetent. You need our help. Elect us, and we’ll take care of you.” It’s a sickening ploy, no matter what color the liberal speaker happens to be.
Comment by RedBeard — 07.12.06 @ 7:35 am
I said: “You are right, Shade. Drinking too much political party Kool-Aid tends to cancel independent thought…LOL!!!â€
E Alex said: That should be the new Republican message to the African American population of America.
I am sure it would get “black leadership†into a tizzy…..
In response: That’s why I feel I can’t have a REALLY productive conversation with a conservative, in particular if they are white (E Alex, I don’t know if you are or not).
Number one: Conservatives always say they value the individual but when one CONTINUES to presume that ALL black people think alike, as evidenced by the kind of statement above, I can’t get with you. I mean come on.
ATTENTION WHITE PEOPLE: JESSE JACKSON AND AL SHARPTON DO NOT SPEAK FOR ALL BLACK PEOPLE. BANISH THAT THOUGHT FROM YOUR HEADS!!!!!!! They do not tell me how to vote or what bills to pay.
However, I can’t discount that Jesse and Al have done good for my community but their need for grandstanding tends to overshadow their good works. And that backfires. But I digress. I’ll move on.
I can’t have real talk with conservatives because the only good black people are folks like Lashawn, Larry Elder, Star Parker or other black conservatives who more than likely will all agree with each other. And that’s OK. We tend to associate with folk who think like we do.
But because I tend to be more moderate to liberal, perhaps I’m not the ‘good black person’ that you’d like to associate with because I’m pro-choice and for affirmative action (with modifications). But guess what, I *gasp* go to church, pay my tithes, want good schools and lower taxes, want property protection from emminent domain, worry about terrorism you know stuff like that, things a “Godless” liberal (thanks Ann!) isn’t even supposed to think about.
But hey what do I know, I’m just a black person.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 07.12.06 @ 10:33 am
“I wonder what Shade or Darkstar thinks of comments like this:
In charging documents, police said Rice had told his accomplices before the robbery that he was going to “cut†somebody.
After fleeing the scene, the four suspects withdrew money with the woman’s bank card, police said. Then they went out to eat at a Wendy’s restaurant, authorities said. ”
I am not Shade, but this is my take:
People, especially youth, both criminals and the innocent often make stupid braggart statements. (Even if you are pissed off at your wife, don’t fantasize out loud about killing her or say I wish she would disappear.)
The Duke email about skinning the stripper, after the financial dispute and poor stripping, is an example, and obviously a joke since he emailed it to 40 people.
I would GUESS that the others thought Knife Brother was just trash talking, and most likely, Knife Brother was talking trash and would not have knifed anyone, as in the previous robberies, if things did not get out of control.
And another reason not to join a gang: Knife Brother might not only ruin your life with felony murder, but Knife Brother may tell the police that you did the knife attack. I suspect that the police did not try hard to get an honest confession from Knife Brother, but let him spin all his lies to rule out any mitigating factors.
Unless they were incredibly stupid and did not see any need to get rid of evidence, they probably did not think they murdered anyone when they used the bankcard and went to Wendy’s.
Disclaimer: I know very little information on this case.
But in a perfect world, they should have walked away from anyone even talking trash about cutting.
Comment by UNK — 07.12.06 @ 11:57 am
Tiffany…If you don’t want people to lump all black people into one group and assume they all think the same I absolutely agree. Perhaps though you should also recognize how easy it can be for someone to do this based on your comment about why you have difficulty talking to conservatives and especially ‘white’ conservatives. Until we all start looking at ourselves first and how we have tendancies to generalize, I think the problem will persist. By the way, I am a white conservative and by no means do I think it would EVER be possible to assume that all black people think the same. I wouldn’t want anyone to do that to me, so I try to do the same. I absolutely respect your opinion and your right to have it. That’s fabulous!
Peace!
dd
Comment by dd — 07.12.06 @ 1:12 pm
DD -
I should clarify. I should have referencing dialogue with conservatives on this blog. My assumption is the majority of LBC readers are white based on the idealogies of the hostess and what she writes about.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 07.12.06 @ 2:09 pm
Why would you assume that, Tiffany? Sounds just a bit like “lumping” to me.
Comment by RedBeard — 07.12.06 @ 2:46 pm
Red -
Just a guess I suppose…LOL!!!!
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 07.12.06 @ 2:50 pm
LaShawn, I’m a white guy who’s just afraid to say things like you say. I’m afraid, except on my own blog or a forum like yours, to speak the truth. The maniac left wing African American establishment that runs towns like DC, Atlanta, East St. Louis, New Orleans, etc. are failing so horribly it makes me want to scream! Aren’t there any tradition bound, law and order black leaders left in America? Clearly the crime rate in DC is terrible and gets worse while cities like Orlando, Houston, Phoenix, Memphis, Jacksonville and other Sunbelt growth cities have had their crime rates plummet. In my state, very few cities have had anything but crime rates dropping (see “Florida’s crime rates lowest since 1971″ in any recent news story). Where are all the strong traditional black men and woman I hear and read about? Why isn’t someone walking up to the socialist loser of a mayor in Detroit and getting rid of him? Why aren’t the troubled cities taking the path of Rudy Guiliani’s no bull$#^& law enforcement tactics, “Broken Windows” and immediate action on criminals? What the hell is going on in DC? These people need to wake up!!!
Comment by littleguy — 07.12.06 @ 7:57 pm
Red, I read Elder, I don’t listen to the radio show.
Tiffany, on this, eye 2 eye.
Comment by DarkStar — 07.12.06 @ 8:03 pm
Tiffany, I recognize there are folks like you (good liberals). Implying that all or even most blacks think alike is obviously a farce. The problem comes from the fact that an image is painted of them based on the same reason people think all southerners are dumb, because as Jeff Foxworthy put it “Only the most obnoxiously ignorant among us get on television.” Thanks to mainstream media, the bulk of black leaders on television are there because they’re claiming someone is doing something racist. (they’re screaming the loudest) I home the blogs and less mainstream media formats will help with that but only time will tell.
Comment by John — 07.12.06 @ 8:59 pm
Why aren’t the troubled cities taking the path of Rudy Guiliani’s no bull$#^& law enforcement tactics, “Broken Windows†and immediate action on criminals?
Little known, actually, little PUBLICIZED fact about Guiliani’s broken window policies:
1. Crime rate was on the decline, already, during the last 2 years of Dinkins’ admnistration.
2. Other cities saw similiar falls in the crime rate during the same period, without enacting “broken windows” policies.
3. About 55% of cases filed under the “broken windows” enforcement were thrown out by the courts.
4. Corresponding to #3, NYC saw a dramatic increase in civil liberties lawsuits field against the city and a dramatic rise in payouts.
Comment by DarkStar — 07.12.06 @ 9:54 pm
Thank God for people like you with clear heads.
Comment by Bob Gibson — 07.13.06 @ 2:18 am
DarkStar: Crime rate was on the decline, already, during the last 2 years of Dinkins’ admnistration.
SteveDinMD: Perhaps, but the vast bulk of the reductions occurred during Guiliani’s administration.
DarkStar: Other cities saw similiar falls in the crime rate during the same period, without enacting “broken windows†policies.
SteveDinMD: I’d be interested to know what cities you refer to. Reductions in New York City crime, alone, were responsible for more than 25% of the total reduction in U.S. crime during the Guiliani period. Many U.S. jurisdictions at the same time benefited from Republican “Truth in Sentencing” and “3 Strikes” legislation beginning in 1995.
DarkStar: About 55% of cases filed under the “broken windows†enforcement were thrown out by the courts.
SteveDinMD: Even if true, it’s irrelevant. Those charged were interrupted in their depredations against quality of life, to the betterment of society.
DarkStar: Corresponding to #3, NYC saw a dramatic increase in civil liberties lawsuits field against the city and a dramatic rise in payouts.
SteveDinMD: I don’t know. This might be true. It might also be true that the payouts in question amounted to money well spent — a cost of business in the campaign to improve quality of life.
Comment by SteveDinMD — 07.14.06 @ 12:51 am
Even if true, it’s irrelevant. Those charged were interrupted in their depredations against quality of life, to the betterment of society.
The “bettermen of society” includes arresting people, more than 1/2 of whom, did nothing wrong?
That’s a police state and that’s for the betterment of society?
Comment by DarkStar — 07.15.06 @ 10:33 am
To DarkStar: No, they probably all, or nearly all, did something wrong, but the courts had grown accustomed to operating under theories of “rights” that enabled a handful of delinquents to injure/inconvenience all. The Guiliani Administration fortunately came to the understanding that they could arrest more miscreants, and thereby interdict them in their depredations, than the idiot judges could cut loose. It was a practical, common sense solution to judicial lunacy.
Comment by SteveDinMD — 07.15.06 @ 12:27 pm
No, they probably all, or nearly all, did something wrong, but the courts had grown accustomed to operating under theories of “rights†that enabled a handful of delinquents to injure/inconvenience all.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Dude, you sound like a fascist under the guise of security.
Comment by DarkStar — 07.16.06 @ 3:09 pm
Shade, I’m curious, where did you get your stats on the racial breakdown of murders in 2003?
Comment by darkknight — 07.16.06 @ 8:40 pm
DarkStar: Freedom does does not confer license to injure the public good, though this might run counter to your anarchist sentiments.
Comment by SteveDinMD — 07.16.06 @ 11:11 pm