I never called anyone names. The only person that’s called anyone names is YOU.

By the way, Jim R, it’s your kind of “Christian spirit” that repels me from the Jesus Christ. So, pat yourself on the back.

It’s not a question of “if”, it’s “when” you will be asked to deny Jesus in order to save yourself!

Screw that – I’d say whatever I had to so I could get away from them and then give our war fighters the best and most detailed intel dump they’ve ever gotten from a hostage.

We can’t win by dying. We can win by giving our guys the tools they need to do the job. Information is a very powerful tool.

This is the real world LaShawn, not a movie.

2 Tim 2:11-13

John 15:13

Philippians 1:21

Now, the difficult part is when I am faced with the every day decisions that my sin nature poses for me… When no one is looking… Please pray that I am faithful in the little things!

As for judging, the scriptures tells us there are two kinds, one that we’re to do and the other is reserved for God alon. I can only judge your words against scripture as instructed by multiple passages. But if I came across as able to discern your inner motives (what’s in your heart), then I need to be more clearer because I can’t nor should I try to.

Rgearding Pauls’s passage, since he was half Jew & half Roman, I believe he was saying that depending on he was talking to, he could relate to them and more particularily zero in on their cultural world view and buzz words. I don’t think that can be extrapolated to being ok to temporarily denounce his faith in order to win someone. In fact, he was often beaten, imprisioned or chased out of town, not for pretending to be one of their co-believers, but for preaching the Gospel.

Take the Alter to the Unknown God. Paul stood in front of the altar, announced that he knew who it was and proceeded to witness from the angle that satan had obscured God’s OT message, hence the unknown. Note, he didn’t make himself a unknown-god believer in order to witness.

Likewise, for one who intends to witness to Muslims has to understand the koran and start off with the common ground, eventually coming around to the point that satan had created a false religion for the children of Ismael in order to ‘steal the birthright’ promised to the children of Israel by God/Allah.

Cheers

2) The Bible is a mirror, or a light unto our feet, not a searchlight to point out every else’s error. The correct application of its truth is different for each one of us because we each peer into it with our own worldly eyes (I do not mean that the Truth of the Bible deviates, just that our understanding of it may). If the differences you note are minor, use them to examine your own beliefs, but don’t fail to speak, with love, about it with the leaders of the church. Many people don’t examine their churches belief system because “that is what we always believed.” That does not make it right or healthy, but you could be being called to be salt to your congregation.

As a funny aside, once when I was preaching (you had to guess that I was one, didn’t you?) I got kind of excited talking about what life would be like in eternity and said something to the effect that the sunrises in heaven (the New Earth) will be more spectacular than any we have ever seen on earth. A five year old informed me after the service that there was not going to be sunrises or sunsets in heaven. Of course he was right, and I had to issue a correction the next Sunday. I was flabbergasted that a five year old was actually listening to me.

It’s probably better for me to realize that the inconsistencies I see indicate something… that there are conflicts between the doctrines and approaches of the church I attend, and the attributes that the Bible identifies for God.

Obviously, between the two the attributes of God should trump. That leaves me with the problem of taking my family out of a church that they like because of doctrinal conflicts that I see.

How do I reconcile my desire for doctrinal harmony with scripture, versus acting as a stubmling block for my family by taking them away from a church that leads them towards faith?

My prayer is that you keep seeking, because as Jesus said, well you know what He said about seeking, don’t you?

So your church has a doctrine of once saved, always saved, eh? I’d be interested, a la the Bereans, to examine that teaching. Can you reference additional scripture to support your church?

I can, but as we’ve seen, the thread has already started going pretty far afield. I’m not sure how divergent LaShawn wants the thread to get.

As benm rightly notes above, Christians will likely be debating the doctrine until the final trump.

Andy also wrote:

As for your closing statment, maybe it’s just me, but I find it ironic to attempt to use a lie to save one’s neck, then turn around to try and win others to the God of Truth.

I think there is doctrinal support for making yourself out to be something you’re not in order to win hearts to salvation. Didn’t Paul himself teach in 1 Cr 9:20-22 that

“And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all [men], that I might by all means save some.”

Why then not become as a Muslim in order to win them to salvation?

Andy also wrote:

Either we’re talking past each other, or I’m talking over your head. You’ve indicated that you can’t believe in a Christian God, so it most likely is the latter. So where do I begin?

Please be careful in characterizing what it is that I can or can’t believe. It’s a bit more polite to ask, after all.

I stated that I had been turned away from believing, not that I can’t believe. I was once a fervently strong believer, and embraced Jesus with every fiber of my being. I have since fallen away. I could believe again. I allow that I may be wrong, and that’s a large part of why I continue to attend church, bring my family, and have been studying the Word and other religious writings (quite extensively).

Much more on my personal struggle in my relationship with the Lord isn’t really appropriate on this thread, though. Suffice it to say that I doubt most strongly that you understand fully what I have believed in the past, currently believe, or will believe in the future… OK?

Or do you think it’s fine for you to stand in judgement of someone else who accepted Jesus as their personal savior?

As far as having a satisfactory answer to the question posed, that is a tough one and maybe I am not smart enough to come up with one. But since I know, with all certainty, where my son would be if the terrorist did his thing, I would not denounce Christ.

But isn’t that a problem with rhetorical questions? You can frame anything to look like it is an exception to the rule, but if you cannot even follow the rule in it’s simplest form, if you deny Christ before men to avoid embarrassment, what does it matter what you will do when it is life and death?

Would I call him back because God, through the Holy Spirit told me to? Yes. But that seems to me to be inconsistent with the Holy Spirit to me. But I acknowledge that real faith, the kind that Abraham had, sometimes involves doing things that make no earthly sense. But in the case Barry cited, I would understand it all in just a moment when the Lord called me home through the terrorists bullet or whatever.

As for my right to make life and death decisions for my child, don’t I do that all the time, when driving for example? If I choose to take a ditch to avoid another’s child who runs out in front of me, am I choosing to harm my own child in the back seat? Life is full of choices like that.

If her religion was indeed the true religion,I have no doubt thatshe made it to nirvana. Pity, on so many counts …

I guess the thrust is that you keep talking from your wisdom as if it were enough, without citing anything to back up your statements. Interesting that you only address opinions/interpretations and ignore the source.

If you’re sincere about understanding the difficult attributes of God, and the follow-on consequences, you’ll have to do better. Otherwise I’m beginning to feel you’re just trolling for ‘soundbites’ to take out of context.