Update (9/13): John Derbyshire on religious slavery.
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Black people in Africa are acknowledging their ancestors’ role in the slave trade.
It’s about time.
In an effort to attract black tourists, the African country of Ghana wants black Americans to know how sorry they are for all the trouble. 
In my unpopular but right-on-the-money opinion, western countries, that is, white people, have apologized for slavery ad nauseam and bent over backwards to make up for it. It’s about time black Africans bear some of the burden, if only symbolically.
One could argue that their sins are worse. They sold out their own brothers and sisters! But I doubt many black Americans care. Guilt-tripping other black folks isn’t as profitable as guilt-tripping whites.
Then again, I’ll bet a lot of people didn’t even know that black Africans were involved in the slave trade until they saw the movie Roots. I certainly don’t remember reading any such thing in school. From the Toronto Star:
UNESCO, the United Nations’ culture and education agency, estimates that 17 million people were forced to leave western Africa in wooden ships bound for the Americas.
Millions more died anonymously, far from home and without proper burial, during the brutal overland march to reach the slave trading forts like Elmina Castle [in Ghana], where blacks were kept shackled in dungeons, then branded with hot iron rods before being packed like “pieces of ebony” into waiting ships.
Most textbooks exploring the history of African slavery blame the trade squarely on Western colonial powers and the New World colonies that trafficked in human cargoes…The fact that Africans sold their own people into slavery is mostly ignored.
Ho-hum. That black Africans and Arabs were and are still involved in the human chattel trade (and other vile things) is uninteresting to the world. (Also see Sudan’s Slaves.) The white man is the blue-eyed devil, conquering, oppressing, chaining, and killing. He is the one people envy and hate, the one for whom they blame their misery. As brutal and corrupt as African rulers are, I’ll bet somehow the people they brutalize still blame “colonialism.”
Oh, but isn’t it fitting that Ghana called its advertising campaign “Project Joseph,” a reference to the Bible story of Joseph, whose envious brothers sold him into Egyptian slavery?
The young Hebrew went through many trials and tribulations, as they say, and remained faithful to his God, despite all temptations to stray. Joseph eventually became a leader in Egypt and prospered, becoming Pharaoh’s “second-in-command.”
There was a famine in Canaan, and Joseph’s brothers went to Egypt to buy food. Joseph was in charge of selling the food, and he recognized his brothers, who didn’t recognize him. (Joseph’s story picks up at Genesis 40 and continues through Genesis 50.)
After much drama, Joseph’s brothers eventually recognized him, and the family reconciled. He tells his brothers not to be angry with themselves for selling him out, because God sent him to Egypt to save their lives and preserve them as a people. What his brothers intended for evil, God intended for good.
And that’s exactly the way I feel about the American slave trade, given that blacks in America as a group have prospered in ways they never could have in Africa or anywhere else on the planet.
Apology accepted, Ghana.
Addendum: If you ever think that something should go without saying, dismiss the thought and just say it. Don’t take Ghana’s apology so literally, for crying out loud. It is symbolic. It doesn’t erase the past or compensate for it, nor is it meant only for black Americans who can trace their ancestry back to Ghana. I don’t really care about the apology, and I don’t plan on visiting Ghana. This post makes points far more important than tourism and publicity.
Another Addendum: Did I tell you my accepting Ghana’s apology was meant to be tongue-in-cheek? I scoff when institutions and governments apologize for slavery. Unless the person who committed the wrong apologizes to the person wronged, it’s all entertainment. Read my comments about Congress apologizing for lynching.
Once again LaShawn, your very clear and very brave insight have hit the nail on the head. I can’t thank you enough for what you do on the front lines of this cyberwar of information and enlightenment. Lead on Morpheus!
Comment by Greg Miller — 09.12.06 @ 8:36 am
“And that’s exactly the way I feel about the American slave trade, given that blacks in America as a group have prospered in ways they never could have in Africa or anywhere else on the planet.” LB
I agree 100% Satan has done a go job of blinded us to our blessing here in this country. I’m heading over to China in October with a few other people to encourage the Christian there and to teach the government considered these Christian “illegal” because that haven’t registered with government and they are not apart of a denomination just people who have study the bible and have accepted the authority that’s contained within and because of their stand for the truth they have to worship underground and in secret. The government tells its young people that religion will only make their lives worst and encouragers them not to partake.
Comment by James Newman — 09.12.06 @ 8:45 am
You ARE the most amazing and thought-provoking person. Thank you for this post and so many, many others.
Comment by Gayle Miller — 09.12.06 @ 9:27 am
Thank you for this posting! If attitudes like yours can spread, this world will be able to heal itself and be begin to work together as the family we really are.
Comment by Cygnux — 09.12.06 @ 9:48 am
A few years ago I posed this position — that the black in Africa who captured and sold their own to the white Europeans were at least as guilty as the purchasers — to a colleague in my office who is black.
The man (my Team Lead) grew angry beyond all proportions, and dared me to ever speak such falsehoods in his presence ever again. Not surprisingly, we did not get along much after that, and I transfered to another group.
Comment by Charlie on the PA Turnpike — 09.12.06 @ 9:53 am
Very good post! Now if “The West” would turn it’s attentions to the ongoing slave trade and at the very least if the media would spotlight it for awhile, maybe the ball could be sent rolling that would result in the elimination of that blight on the world.
The stories that sometimes pop up about the sex trade here, slaves of foreign ambassadors here, illegal aliens here treated practiclaly as chattel, only make waves for a short time and are then set aside.
Comment by Mark La Roi — 09.12.06 @ 10:04 am
Thank you for this post.
Let me see, so Ghana is basically apologizing in hopes that we will go visit and be exploited for their financial gain. Like, you LaShawn, I accept Ghana’s apology. But I will not accept their invitation.
Comment by Dennis — 09.12.06 @ 10:25 am
LaShawn notes: “One could argue that their sins are worse. They sold out their own brothers and sisters!”
Slavery, serfdom, child labor, tribal warfare, cannibalism, conquering hordes and much more were a part of history and those things are still going on today.
The US took the big hit on slavery because it was an economic institution that was in contradiction to our founding documents. However we managed to continue child labor late into the 1920’s when city urchins were sent on trains to the Midwest to be raised on farms. As in slavery, these kids had good “owners” and bad “owners.” Families were separated and broken up.
Many immigrants were held in peonage in this country until the 1970′2 and there are still cases of it.
The sweat shops in which women worked in appalling conditions for long hours were common until the last half century when the textile industry went elsewhere for even cheaper labor.
There is more than enough blame to go around for the whole American slavery story. But it is far from unique.
One more thing: There were slave breeding colonies in the islands and South America and there were plenty of black entrepreneurs engaged in them. I am far from shocked. It was an ancient and accepted business. If you were living in that mix, would you rather be in the cabin waiting to be sold or in the big house making the decisions?
Sudan is a country stuck in time on this issue. Saudi Arabia stocks its princely homes with slaves. Some smooth talking Muslim men still con American trophy wives into the slavery of Sharia law. Poor people in India, Bangladesh, Burma, Thailand, etc. sell their little girls.
The world hasn’t changed much, but the insult of the slave past is kept alive in the United States like nowhere else in the world. We would have a much more productive country if we could come to grips with it and put it behind us. It won’t happen in my lifetime or the lifetimes of my grandchildren and that is very sad.
Comment by Heliotrope — 09.12.06 @ 10:35 am
I LOVE it when low-IQ commenters write such trash from their work computers. I doubt your boss shares your vulgar views, but I’ll soon find out. - Admin
Comment by Candice Morre — 09.12.06 @ 10:47 am
I’m still baffled as to why black Americans are supposed to judge themselves based on African standards. The whole notion of being satisfied with something because it would be worse in Africa is flawed. The Average black American can trace his or her roots further back in the country than the Average white person. When those first slaves arrived to a land where they would spend the rest of their lives, they were no longer Africans. They became Americans and should have been entitled to the full rights as Americans. If they were denied rights that other Americans had, it didn’t matter how conditions were in Africa (though I’m sure that most of those slaves would have preferred to be in Africa).
This is like arguing that blacks should never have complained about having to sit in the back of buses because this was better than Africa. That is nonsense and poor reasoning. I could equally argue that American conservatives should stop complaining about American liberals because British liberals are more extreme.
Black Americans are not Ghanaian. We are Americans. So no matter how one feels about any apologies over American slavery, an apology from America is not comparable to an apology from Ghana. Ghana is a foreign nation while American is home. Plus, the vast majority of black Americans couldn’t tell you if they descended from Ghana or not.
It’s symbolic, Shade. Regardless of whether I, for example, can trace my ancestry back to Ghana is irrelevant; my ancestors COULD be from Ghana, and that’s the point, not direct lineage. And to address your other points, it is arguably better to sit at the back of an American bus than to have lived in Ghana. Again, it is ARGUABLE, not NONSENSICAL or poorly reasoned. Just because you don’t agree with the premise doesn’t mean the reasoning is flawed. As the saying goes, “Speak for yourself.” - Admin
Comment by Shade — 09.12.06 @ 10:53 am
Excellent topic, La Shawn. I have always found it puzzling that some perpetrators of slavery have been rightly condemned while others get a free ride. Within our own borders, we see that division between north and south. Quite often we hear New England declared the home of racial righteousness and the south declared the home of bigotry and oppression. As is often the case, this simplistic outlook differs from historical reality by omission of key elements.
One of my favorite films is the musical 1776, and in that film is a great song about this issue. The words are pertinent even today, and puncture some myths quite thoroughly.
The scene is of the debate over anti-slavery language in the Declaration of Independence. Rutledge of South Carolina addresses Adams of Massachusetts and hammers him about hypocrisy:
Molasses to rum to slaves, oh what a beautiful waltz
You dance with us, we dance with you
Molasses and rum and slaves
Who sails the ships out of Boston
Ladened with bibles and rum?
Who drinks a toast to the Ivory Coast?
Hail Africa, the slavers have come
New England with bibles and rum
And its off with the rum and the bibles
Take on the slaves, clink, clink
Hail and farewell to the smell
Of the African coast
Molasses to rum to slaves
‘Tisn’t morals, ’tis money that saves
Shall we dance to the sound of the profitable pound
In molasses and rum and slaves
Who sails the ships out of Guinea
Ladened with bibles and slaves?
‘Tis Boston can boast to the West Indies coast
Jamaica, we brung what ye craves
Antigua, Barbados, we brung bibles and slaves!
Molasses to rum to slaves
Who sail the ships back to Boston
Ladened with gold, see it gleam
Whose fortunes are made in the triangle trade
Hail slavery, the New England dream!
Mr. Adams, I give you a toast:
Hail Boston! Hail Charleston!
Who stinketh the most?
Comment by RedBeard — 09.12.06 @ 10:59 am
Hey Ghana, How About Some Reparations and Other Special Hand Outs?
La Shawn Barber is covering the news about Ghana apologizing for its role in the slave trade. Without the willingness of nations like Ghana, to enslave and sell humans off like cattle, many of the other issues with West African slavery may have never…
Trackback by Independent Conservative — 09.12.06 @ 11:08 am
I’d love to see the response from those given the title of “Black Leaders”, if a Western (majority White) nation made a symbolic apology like this.
Comment by Independent Conservative — 09.12.06 @ 11:41 am
La Shawn, that’s not the point. The notion of sitting in the back of the bus being better than Ghana doesn’t justify forcing American citizens to sit at the back of the bus. If America passed a law forbidding black people from blogging, would you be content with this because it is still “better than Africa”? I would think not because all Americans should be entitled to the same rights to blog regardless of race and what happens in a nation that was the home of distant descendants of some Americans is irrelevant.
The only thing this symbolizes is the notion that blacks are not Americans. This symbolizes the notion that blacks Americans are actually Africans who reside on this land. I’ve always viewed that as black leftist thought.
Also, we don’t know how people would be living in Africa sans colonization. Secluded primitive tribes are generally content with their lives. We look at them as dirty, ugly and primitive based on our own points of view, but the Bushmen of South Africa and those like them try to maintain their ways of living and are happy living as they do. There are indications that their simple lives afford them less stress than the more advanced civilizations. So who are we to judge? That is why I believe that we should concentrate on living our own culture and stop trying to judge others.
Comment by Shade — 09.12.06 @ 12:02 pm
The vast majority of slavery seems so far in past with everyone dead years ago, 150 years, that it barely seems worth blaming or apologizing for one’s distant ancestors - beyond any symbolic purpose.
Maybe we can get the Australians to apologize for being criminals 150 years ago.
Comment by UNK — 09.12.06 @ 12:14 pm
Oh, brother. Somehow I knew what I had to say wouldn’t be “the point.” What a shock.
Anyway, your banning-blogging hypothetical is a bit silly. It has nothing to do with evaluating whether sitting on the back of a bus in America in the 1950s was arguably “better” than living in Ghana at that time or in the present. And I didn’t say or imply that segregation laws were justified. Where the heck did you get that?
You’re all over the place, Shade, trying to dispute points I never made, and I fear my personal responses to you will only encourage you to meander even more.
And judging other people and cultures is what I do on this blog. For too long people have judged the West harshly, and as a westerner, I’m here to defend my culture, starting with exercising my freedom to blog and judge other cultures. If and when America bans black folks from blogging (good grief), I’ll address the issue when the time comes.
If my “judgments” upset/irritate you, there are plenty of other blogs (too many) where you won’t read about such judgments. And please read the Update to this post, where I make clear how I feel about Ghana’s apology.
Comment by La Shawn — 09.12.06 @ 12:16 pm
“One could argue that their sins are worse. They sold out their own brothers and sisters!â€
The fallacy of collective action came up some Duke thread, but people will act in their own self interest instead of their race (collective)interests, in most cases without selective/individual incentives which make the collective and individual interest the same.
As an example, some people will kill another over an insult to save face (street cred) instead of acting in their race/human interest to advance their race.
Comment by UNK — 09.12.06 @ 12:18 pm
But… But… But… La Shawn, all you have done is taken away the path to reparations from the professional ‘victim’… How ‘dare’ you??
Outstanding piece La Shawn, as usual, you hit it out of the park…
Comment by TexasFred — 09.12.06 @ 1:18 pm
I do not know if my response is one of those you target with your addendum. I know the apology is symbolic, but I question if, like in the slave trade, they look at blacks in the U.S. and see dollar signs. On second thought perhaps they see liberals in the U.S. and see dollar signs they can leverage with symbolism. I have no problem with them making a buck or two. I just wonder how much their view of Americans has changed since the slave trade.
Comment by Dennis — 09.12.06 @ 1:22 pm
I don’t have anything to add, since that was such a superb post. Well done (as always).
Jay
Comment by Jay — 09.12.06 @ 1:25 pm
I have always found it puzzling that some perpetrators of slavery have been rightly condemned while others get a free ride.
Good point. I believe that this is probably because people tend to hold their own more accountable than others. For example, if a man’s son, along with the son’s friend, does something wrong, the man’s ire would probably be greater toward his own son. This is why Americans are more critical of America’s involvement in the slave trade than Africa’s. We set higher standards for ourselves.
Also, there are many who don’t see historical slavery in Africa as comparing to American slavery. Femi Akomolafe discusses this at length here:
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/30/013.html
Comment by Shade — 09.12.06 @ 1:44 pm
This is a public relations stunt. They are trying to attract African American investments.
That said, I have never been able to understand the African American mentality in romanticizing Africa and refusing to acknowledge how things actually worked back then. You (African Americans) have no one else to blame for this except your professional apologists and policy makers and historians - if we can call them that. You mentioned that you never realized that Africans were involved in slave trade until you saw roots. Whose fault is that? Me sitting in my house in Africa living my life or the guys that sell you whatever information that you all bought?
I don’t and we don’t owe anybody any apology for the slave trade simply because you guys don’t get it at all. I’ll make the assumption that you despite your sounding like someone who should know better don’t know the half of it. Sub-Saharan Africa was and is mainly* filled with people you all like to call black since you live in a society that is populated with people of other colors. Sub-Saharan Africans differentiate ourselves based on ethnicity which is more sociological (culture and language) in definition than anything else. In essence the Yoruba that span southwest Nigeria, southern Benin republic and Togo consider themselves a different people from the Ibo/Ibo that populate parts of southeastern Nigeria and some places in Cameroon. There were wars among the different ethnicities and it was normal when overrunning a village or town to take slaves unless the kings agrees to pay tribute to the conquering army’s royalty. These slaves however were not multi generational a slaves child was not automatically a slave (at least in Yoruba culture and a few others) and a lot of times the slave were freed to go do their own thing after some years or even earlier mostly without money changing hands. The Portuguese came and found that they could for a cheap amount procure these slaves from the reigning ethnicity or town depending on the situation. Later as the supply ran out they hired thugs and bands of opportunists and even some royalty to procure them extra slaves which those did by raiding smaller settlements or unprotected farmworkers etc
Now this is something that every African knows and it’s a very common plot device in indigenous movies. Unless you belonged to an ethnicity that had a caste system, nobody knows whose ancestor was a slave and realistically the way things worked back then I’m sure every single African has an ancestor that was a slave at some point in time or the other. Yet we don’t sit down and gripe about it. You’ll only hear about reparations from opportunists who hope to make money off of their rants and not from any serious minded African (south Africans might have a case and i mean south Africa the country not the region).
So some thugs or king of old sold some of your ancestors into slavery and I’m supposed to weep and gnash my teeth in remorse for the way they lived back then. Mind you some of those left children behind in Africa so they were my ancestors too.
Sorry this is one African that doesn’t owe you any apology and you won’t get any either. I’m also supposed to be apologetic because some of your own people sold you lies and half-truths and that is somehow my fault. There’s a Yoruba proverb that says that, “bi omo ba se ri la se nse ana e, bi igba ba se ri la se nlo” (you behave in a manner appropriate with the times).
My ancestors and yours dealt with the times they lived in the best way they could, and I’m not even going to talk about the fact that the Europeans had better weapons and kicked our a**, how come it’s so hard to just accept that. if you’ve got a problem with them come to Africa and exhume their bodies and sue them or something.
You guys are better off ‘now’ (don’t gloat) and maybe if your average African American would stop by in Barnes and Noble and read something other than the crap Wendy Williams puts out and other pop culture crap you’ll learn to blame your parents for not investing the time to teach most of y’all to think critically. I went to school in west Africa and for the most part spent more time trying to find textbooks so I could learn the material and I still came here and kicked a** in graduate school. Y’all need to get off this ‘blame it on slavery crap and get off yo behinds and work’. Sorry if my language seems crude but I’ve had it with all of you. The world doesn’t owe you sh*t. Get a grip!
As they say in the vernacular, “I heard that!” - Admin
Comment by yemi olu — 09.12.06 @ 2:13 pm
Hey Yemi Olu if you are ever in Atlanta I’m buying dinner.
Comment by James Newman — 09.12.06 @ 2:35 pm
If I sold a man a gun, who then takes that gun and murder 4 people. Said man would be responsible for the murder. If I knowing that I am selling a gun to an individual that is planning to use the gun to commit murder, then I am complicit in that murder.
It is possible that Africans had no idea of the conditions to which they were exposing their “brothers and sisters” when they handed them over to Europeans. I am sure over time they did become aware of those conditions but money and power is a hellavah drug.
I find it funny that those who claim that an apology from the US is not warranted, but an apology from Ghana is heralded. I don’t know what motives Ghana has for issuing such an apology. The cynic in me would lean towards tourist dollars. For historical purposes, Ghana should fund research to make it easier for black people in America to trace whatever ancestral roots they may have.
I don’t give credence to any argument that compares the conditions of black Americans to Africans. Maybe that argument holds water for recent immigrants, but I was born in Chicago – therefore I am afforded the freedom, rights and expectations that are derived from the promise this country made to its citizens via our Constitution. At any times my country does not live up to its promise, I have to right to show her the error of her ways.
So any statement containing “at least its not Africa†has no validity in my book.
Comment by james — 09.12.06 @ 3:26 pm
Oh, come on! I’ve had it up to here with people coming on this blog just to be contrary. You end up saying things you know are ridiculous! Africans who sold their kin into European slavery had no idea what conditions they were exposing them to? Are you mad? Did you see the reference to Elmina Castle in the story? You think Ghanians had no idea their people were dying in that dungeon, shackled and branded, for crying out loud?
And nobody on this blog or in the comment section said that you don’t have a right to complain about the country that allows you to complain about it. You people and your straw men, good Lord!
If I see one more comment like that one…
By the way, given your history on this blog, I decided to find out what you’d written about me on yours since I don’t read it. Naughty boy. You weren’t banned before, but you are now.
Comment by La Shawn — 09.12.06 @ 3:42 pm
See my comment above. - Admin
Comment by james — 09.12.06 @ 3:42 pm
First of all yemi olu, black Americans are not asking Africa for an apology. If you hadn’t noticed, the complaint on this very board is why people harp on America apologizing as opposed to Africa which is NEVER asked to apologize. Thus, your rant has little application. No one is asking you to apologize and to most blacks the apology from Ghana is meaningless and even unwanted. The very explaination you give for historical slavery in Africa is one of the main reasons black people don’t see it as comparable to American slavery and thus see practically no need for apology. Ghana takes it on it’s own to issue an apology for whatever reason, and you attack black Americans for it when black America has practically NEVER desired an apology from Africa and has resisted laying any blame on Africa for American slavery (which is something the Right commonly complains about). Beyond this, MOST black Americans couldn’t care less about an apology from ANYONE, including the U.S. What you here are words from “activists” and not the everyday black American citizen.
Now let’s get to the hypocracy. There is no group that harps on the colonization of Africa by Europe as much as Africans. African scholars, politicians, etc. continue to harp on colonization as the cause of Africa’s current problems. Now tell me this. When will you Africans get off of the ‘blame it on colonization crap and get off yo behinds and work’?
Now realize that when you start criticizing the behavior of black Americans, you are throwing some heavy stones in a very big glass house. I can run a long list of behavior among the African citizenry that would make African Americans look quite civil. African Americans do better ‘now’ as you say, and seemingly will do better ‘in the future’. When it comes down to violence, mutilations, AIDS, civil war, superstitions, corruption, etc., Africa seems to be second to none and this very Africa keeps its hands out begging the West for aid and to solve Africa’s problems when Africa should solve them herself. You say that black Americans don’t read, yet black Americans must be doing something right to maintain a higher average IQ than the average African. Likewise, you realize the ongoing stereotype going around in western nations and in South Africa of the lazy black African. So I suggest not throwing stones.
Comment by Shade — 09.12.06 @ 3:42 pm
Topic is still burning in my mind having just come fresh from Black Rednecks and White Liberals by the always excellent Dr. Thomas Sowell.
As a fellow black conservative, I get so TIRED of having to repeat these same points that you’ve brought out in your post. Slavery was in no way unique to White people.
Comment by Stephen D. Oliver — 09.12.06 @ 4:11 pm
“First of all yemi olu, black Americans are not asking Africa for an apology”
I would venture a guess that many blacks would rather that it was white men that went in small boats up African rivers and captured their ancestor - as is presented in some histories.
And of course some Jews were involved in the slave trade.
But apologizing just reminds them that it’s not all the white/Jew man’s fault or the white man and a few Judas blacks.
But one of the most common excuse for any crime is that “they did it also” / “every one does it” which does not fly with me and should be not excuse what happed - but it did happen 150 - 400 years ago and one might be better off concentrating on things today.
(Now that I think about it wasn’t it the white Vikings in the middle ages who went around Europe enslaving fellow whites, but this is slightly off topic like some of Shades responses - and I don’t think life in Africa in the middle ages was any more pleasant then life in Europe then - not a bunch of savages communing with nature living in peace until the white man sold them guns and rum)
Comment by UNK — 09.12.06 @ 4:41 pm
#27 Shade takes Black Africans to task: “Now tell me this. When will you Africans get off of the ‘blame it on colonization crap and get off yo behinds and work’?”
Shade, Europe is full of black Africans who have learned fluency in multiple languages and risked all to get out of the third world and into the developed world where they can compete and get ahead. They have no choice but to leave or stay home ingreat turmoil or get into a position of power so they can gain wealth by robbing the poor. If you are unaware of the way of the third world (black, white, oriental) then you need to go to Barnes and Noble and read a free book with your latte.
Yemi Olu speaks the total truth. He is here to eat your lunch, in case you didn’t notice.
Comment by Heliotrope — 09.12.06 @ 4:49 pm
*sigh*
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 09.12.06 @ 5:52 pm
Shade and yemi olu make spot on points.
Comment by DarkStar — 09.12.06 @ 8:39 pm
Black people in Africa are acknowledging their ancestors’ role in the slave trade.It’s about time.
I have family who have visited Ghana and the “slave castles.” On a “one to one level,” the role has been acknowledged for some time. On this level, the apology is what it is.
One could argue that their sins are worse. They sold out their own brothers and sisters!
One could argue that just because something is for sale, it doesn’t mean that others have to buy. For example, I know where I could get illegal drugs if I wanted to do so. But I don’t because I am not interested.
Then again, I’ll bet a lot of people didn’t even know that black Africans were involved in the slave trade until they saw the movie Roots. I certainly don’t remember reading any such thing in school.
I was taught it in school. But I’m fascinated by the switch from some Africans selling some of the slaves to some Africans selling all of the slaves that made the “boat ride.”
The following is a quote of a type that always gets me: And that’s exactly the way I feel about the American slave trade, given that blacks in America as a group have prospered in ways they never could have in Africa or anywhere else on the planet.
I’ll use my linage as an example.
If the slave trade never happened, my father’s family would never have been in Jamaica and my father would not have even existed to come to America to meet my mother.
If the slave trade never happened, my mother’s family would never have been in South Carolina, later North Carolina. My mother’s lineage would have never made the northern migration and my mother would not have finished that migration to meet my father.
Given that, I would not have existed.
That scenario would hold true for most American Blacks. Additionally no one knows what would have happened in the African countries/regions if the Blacks sent to the West Indies, Britian, Spain, and America, would have never happened. So the supposition on the face of it is illogical.
I was planning on going to Ghana as well as the Ivory Coast “one day” and this does nothing to change it. So even if they didn’t offer the “apology” I still would go. I’ve heard too many good things from people who have traveled there to not go.
I could go through the same lineage Alternative History scenario, but I think you understood the point I made well enough. Had Africans not sold out their countrymen, the course of history would have been different, no doubt, but I think I can guess, given the poverty in Africa today and its Third World status, that black Africans - or blacks anywhere - would still be better off if they lived in the United States. Sub-Saharan Africa has made no meaningful contributions to civilization (advancing it, that is), and I doubt slavery had a meaningful impact on the people’s ability to invent, discover, create, and build.
The supposition is not illogical at all, although I’m certain you think you’ve demonstrated that it is.
Comment by DarkStar — 09.12.06 @ 8:52 pm
Heliotrope, Shade made some accurate comments. In fact, if it weren’t coming from Shade or in response to Yemi Olu, you would be backing him. After all, Shade didn’t say much different from the Washington Post reporter who wrote a scathing book about Africa that was cheered by conservatives.
Comment by DarkStar — 09.12.06 @ 8:54 pm
La Shawn said:
Africans who sold their kin into European slavery had no idea what conditions they were exposing them to? Are you mad? Did you see the reference to Elmina Castle in the story? You think Ghanians had no idea their people were dying in that dungeon, shackled and branded, for crying out loud?
Don’t you just love the folks who are apologists for one side of the slave trade? People in Ghana selling slaves absolutely knew they were sending people into terrible conditions. As you pointed out, some of the facilities were right there on their soil and still exists to this very day.
And lets not forget those who died even before they made it to the holding areas to get on a slave ship. They were already not in as great a condition as some apologists claim.
And only an idiot would see a high number of people being boarded on a ship in chains and think the sold people would all be able to fit comfortably.
Some people act as if working in America today is a form of slavery, but they never call people like Bob Johnson a (former) seller. They see Black on Black crime every day on the news and make excuses for it (they blame Whites, Conservatives and/or Bush), just like their excuses for Black slave sellers.
The bottom line is that they (Blacks selling slaves) did not care. The people they were selling were not “their people” and they did not view them as such. They (slaves) were people they (sellers) enslaved, either because they defeated them in war, convicted them as a law breaker, made them slaves out of debt or whatever other reasons. They were not people they cared about. They were considered the lowest in their hierarchy and easily expendable for the right price.
Those slave trading so-called “brothers” were keeping the people as slaves in a form that they felt worked for their society, but they really did not care about them. This is why the slave trade worked so effectively.
And today people can try and blame Colonialism and Western influence for Africa’s issues all they want. But people in Africa were being crabs towards each other since the days of Shaka Zulu! That man was a monster! And Africa still has monsters today. I’m not saying all of Africa is bad, but there are problems that continue to be created by people indigenous to the region. This helped Muslims and enterprising Westerners to take advantage of the situation. And now Muslims and the Chinese are taking full advantage of it.
The parts of my DNA that have an ancestral connection to Africa were not wanted (for whatever reason) and I don’t look back!
I don’t hold anything against them. I may visit some areas at some point of my choosing, but I’m not going to lie for them either.
And I’m sure just like people objected to slavery in America, there were people who didn’t like it in Africa too and were powerless to change their leader’s actions.
Comment by Independent Conservative — 09.12.06 @ 9:33 pm
Hi Lashawn,
Great post and great job revealing something scary but true. I’m almost offended, that books make blacks out to be a group of idiots, that did not understand the value of business and economy. I think if the real story every came out about the slave trade Blacks would realize in some instances they maintained a lot of power economically over their European business men. This is in the sense, that they were willing, able, and understood how the slave trade economics works. I think dismissing Africans as a intellectually sub human group of individuals be-littles the true power they had during the slave trade. The after effects of selling individuals from your country into slavery are well documented. Africa, could not recovery economically from the loss human capital and look where it is today. A large portion of the continent is poor and impoverished.
Comment by BCEagle — 09.12.06 @ 9:53 pm
#34 Darkstar assumes I am on board with the idea of the “damage” colonialism did to Africa and the idea that modern Africa has adopted that “damage” as an excuse not to excel.
Wrong! The third world is a very complex place where most of the problems of poverty are related to scant education and the habit of doing things the way they have been done for hundreds of years. It is patently true that if you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you have always gotten.
Many people, such as WaPo reporters, who deign to report on the third world rarely touch upon the daily grind of the third world. Instead, they get all intellectual about what is “keeping” these people in poverty. And without fail, they miss the point.
It is the missionaries who really rolled their sleeves up and helped the people learn more productive ways. There has been the occasional self-effacing individual as well, such as the Peace Corps worker who never came home, but stayed to help.
Third world people, I am sorry to inform you, are not all bright-eyed scientists just waiting to be released to bloom.
Comment by Heliotrope — 09.13.06 @ 9:47 am
#37 “#34 Darkstar assumes I am on board with the idea of the “damage†colonialism did to Africa and the idea that modern Africa has adopted that “damage†as an excuse not to excel.”
Nothing in Darkstar’s post #34 implies any such assumption on his part. I made a post critical of black Africans, including the tendency of black Africans to blame colonization on their current problems. Darkstar notes that under any other circumstance, you would have been in 100% agreement with me and your last post is pretty much evidence of this. Instead, you made an adversarial response to my post because my response was a counter to Yemi Olu’s attack on black Americans.
I’ve seen no one on this thread discussing Third World dynamics and it seems that you are responding to imaginary posts on that topic.
Comment by Shade — 09.13.06 @ 10:19 am
Damn, I did not know that white people apologized for slavery or any other wrong committed against those whose parents or grandparents were descended from those who were brought to America from Africa to be made into slaves. This is not to dismiss the Africans complicity in selling fellow Africans to the Europeans (whether or not they knew the people they were selling to the Europeans were to be made in to chattel by the Europeans is up for debate.) however, if the losses vs. gains were acccessed as it relates to the participants (Africans,Arabs and Europeans)it can be surmised that the Africans had mostly losses and no gains.
Comment by e — 09.13.06 @ 10:27 am
Once again a blatant attempt to grab anything that will soothe the conscience, erase the reality. True as all historians and archaeologists know slavery existed in all developing civilizations including Africa. And in context the slave trade in Africa, among Africans did not even vaguely resemble the European slave trade, hence the term chattel. In Africa slaves were not treated as they were in the foreign colonies of America and elsewhere. They were not deliberately robbed of their humanity in the cruel ways widely acknowledged in American history. Furthermore in the European versions of slavery the white serfs reintegrated themselves into the culture easily. Black African slaves and their descendants would seem to have a hard time assimilating into a culture which was cemented together by their collective oppression. Try it yourself.
We need compassion to bring us wisdom. Love for one another will allow us to be compassionate and understand one another’s hardships. We did not choose this life, but we must live it. One day we will all need help and will hope for compassion. Will it be there?
Mack.
And you know the slave trade in Africa didn’t resemble European slavery…how? On a scale of 1 to 10, how do you rate the “cruelty” factor? I’m not defending slavery, by the way. - Admin
Comment by mack — 09.13.06 @ 10:32 am
(I am neither Black or African.)
I’ve noticed in my years on campus that there is a significant cultural divide between African immigrants and Black Americans. African immigrants tend to be the most critical, since political correctness does not constrain their speech the way it would for other ethnicities.
Comment by altoids — 09.13.06 @ 12:12 pm
Now let’s get to the hypocracy. There is no group that harps on the colonization of Africa by Europe as much as Africans. African scholars, politicians, etc. continue to harp on colonization as the cause of Africa’s current problems. Now tell me this. When will you Africans get off of the ‘blame it on colonization crap and get off yo behinds and work’?
Now realize that when you start criticizing the behavior of black Americans, you are throwing some heavy stones in a very big glass house. I can run a long list of behavior among the African citizenry that would make African Americans look quite civil. African Americans do better ‘now’ as you say, and seemingly will do better ‘in the future’. When it comes down to violence, mutilations, AIDS, civil war, superstitions, corruption, etc., Africa seems to be second to none and this very Africa keeps its hands out begging the West for aid and to solve Africa’s problems when Africa should solve them herself. You say that black Americans don’t read, yet black Americans must be doing something right to maintain a higher average IQ than the average African. Likewise, you realize the ongoing stereotype going around in western nations and in South Africa of the lazy black African. So I suggest not throwing stones.
First of all it’s not hypocrisy to have an opinion about others regardless of ones situation/background. Secondly I was responding to an issue about african americans not africans.
I’ll be the first to admit that we’ve got major issues in africa and some of us are working on solving them.
To be very clear, yes africans (mostly guys who don’t want to acknowledge reality like to blame everything on colonization but that I easily refute all the time). These same guys however still hold degrees in every field and know that it’s their responsibility to make sure their kids are raised right. They take responsibility for their actions and conditions at least individually.
Unfortunately the whole ‘black africans should get off their behinds and work’ meme doesn’t work in this case because as much as black africans might during political discussions want to blame colonization they still get up the next morning and go to find a way to make a living and we still keep fighting to figure out how to rearrange our polity to make it work. That my dear is the difference. To be clear I know a whole lot of african americans who also do the same and are great folks and that is why my comment was tailored towards those who play the blame game especially since so many of the ignorant ones take it as gospel truth and keep using that as a crutch to keep the race back. I love african americans to death and would be the first to cheer anyone that is doing something uplifting and I do volunteer to help out and mentor in every way I can.
Secondly what is this average black american IQ is better than an average black african IQ crap you’re talking about? That hasty generalization just dropped the whole quality of your comments a huge notch. Where did you do this survey? Who has this numbers? Considering that I could list more high tech science professional black africans in any country in the world than you can probably list black americans (I really hate to say that) this must be your imagination.
I do understand that it’s difficult (psychologically) to break a cycle especially when all you know is what you see around you, but part of breaking the cycle is to stop enabling the crap that goes on by perpetuating the blame game. If black africans didn’t work to better their situation individually (collectively we can’t seem to make it work ‘yet’ due to our inability to get over the differences in ethnicity which has been played on to no end by politicians) then you might have something to say.
Like I said and you probably missed it, those who harp on reparations and blame colonialism for everything are in the same boat as the people I talk about, it’s usually lazy thinking but mostly opportunism (because they think they can benefit from touting a line that’ll get them money from foreign apologists - trust me I know some of this guys it’s just a con game to them).
When I say something that supports dictators or African politicians that keep asking others to solve their problem then you can say something about me. Funny thing is that a whole lot of us are against this crap of politicians going about cap in hand begging for aid because we know exactly where the money ends up and we also know that we don’t need the aid to solve our problems. From your name you might have links with nigeria and if you know anything about that country you’d know that even the idiots in the north of the country who implemented sharia in their states were simply playing to the saudis and whatever money they could get from oil rich muslim countries.
Trust me I don’t mind throwing stones, maybe the house will get rebuilt, rather than this whole PC-let’s-put-clear-plastic-over-the-cracks we seem to like to do around here.
Like altoids say we don’t have the shackles of PCness to contend with, if that makes me uncivilized so be it. I prefer harsh truth, in the long run it helps better that thin-skinned-don’t-hurt-him/her-blame-it-on-the-rain-or-something.
Comment by yemi olu — 09.13.06 @ 12:59 pm
I think it’s rather unfortunate that this has descended into a Black American vs. Black African dialogue. It matters not because Africans face the exact same predjudices and discimininations that may occur to Black Americans if they decide to come to this country. A bigot doesn’t care if you come from Ghana, Senegal, or Atlanta.
This discourse is MOST unproductive.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 09.13.06 @ 1:49 pm
Bigots come in all races, Tiffany.
Comment by La Shawn — 09.13.06 @ 1:52 pm
I realize that. I was making that comment specifically in relation to the black american vs. black african dialogue.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 09.13.06 @ 2:07 pm
Just checking.
Comment by La Shawn — 09.13.06 @ 2:12 pm
“I’m almost offended, that books make blacks out to be a group of idiots, that did not understand the value of business and economy. I think if the real story every came out about the slave trade Blacks would realize in some instances they maintained a lot of power economically over their European business men. This is in the sense, that they were willing, able, and understood how the slave trade economics works.”
Some drug dealers today may be smart, and understand the basic economics of the drug industry. With no laws, maintaining a cartel through violence and maintaining a monopoly with murder are the “rational” things for a criminal to do.
If it’s any consolation, the black African slave traders were busy fighting with each other and the tribes they were trying to enslave and most probably had the same kind of short life drug dealers do and petty tyrants did – such as the African countries engaged in war or natural resources.
At least the white slave traders had a legal system in American that kept them from fighting and stealing slaves from each other.
Comment by UNK — 09.13.06 @ 3:56 pm
“The after effects of selling individuals from your country into slavery are well documented. Africa, could not recovery economically from the loss human capital and look where it is today. A large portion of the continent is poor and impoverished.”
what documentation?
offhand, don’t think this is possible. If 10% of the African’s migrated to Europe and North America today, I don’t think it would make the remaining 90% any worse off. If anything there would be more land and remaining natural resources for the remaining 90%.
It’s well documented aside from the historical accident that development largely started in Europe, Africa was mostly never able to maintain stable rules of law needed for economic development
Comment by UNK — 09.13.06 @ 4:04 pm
yemi olu
The notion of Africans being non-PC is sort of meaningless. For the most part, what happens in black America really has no bearing on what happens in Africa. If Africans were concerned with expressing concerns in a non-PC way, we would hear brutal criticism about what goes on the African continent. Yet what is becoming disturbingly common is the tendency of Africans to look down of black Americans and black Caribbeans. How about trying to eliminate the divisive tribal mentality. Black Americans jump through loops to try and defend against people saying that Sub-Saharan Africa has contributed nothing of importance to the world. Black Americans push for aid to African countries. Black Americans push to create a holiday, flawed or not, that attempts to celebrate our “African heritage” (only for it to be criticized most harshly by Africans). I could totally accept such criticism if Africa was a shining example of social and economic success, but lets be real.
I’m not going to get deep into the IQ thing since it uses statistics from people who give genetic reasons for IQ differences between races (which I’m skeptical of). If you want to find out, google Richard Lynn, Charles Murray, etc.
http://www.rlynn.247e.info/index.html
As far as getting up for work, the unemployment rate for black Americans is generally between 8 and 9%.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=2385558
The unemployment rate for Ghana is 20%. Look at extreme high unemployment rate for Zimbabwe, Kenya and Liberia:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lab_une_rat-labor-unemployment-rate#rest
http://www.brainyatlas.com/fields/2129.html
Is hard work responsible for the rampant crime rate in Nigeria:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_928.html
As far as there being more Africans in higher professional positions, consider that there are 600 million sub-Saharan Africans compared to 36 million black Americans. Whether your assessment is true or not, there definitely SHOULD be more.
And Tiffany, you are absolutely right, which is why this is my last comment on it. I just have a hard time not responding to what I consider to be hypocrisy.
Comment by Shade — 09.13.06 @ 4:16 pm
For black people in Africa or the U.S. to acknowledge we were sold by our own is too little too late. So many have led a life of pointing the finger, but like they say, when you point one finger outward, 3 more are pointing back at you. I believe it was a concious effort not to teach the masses the truth about that trade by “black leadership” in order to keep beating white society over the head because of self GUILT. Centuries have passed and we still are singing the same song, immigrants are coming here from 3rd world countries prospering more than we; all because we were conditioned by our own to live a LIE, to live hate-filled lives to be taught to our offsprings. I was told the truth about that trade from a white woman over 2 decades ago. How embarrassing that was. And when I started telling others I was called a “traitor”. Why? for reading the information, acknowledging it existed, not keeping it to myself? I was led to where to find the information, even about the ships, captains, ship names, routes, schedules, orders placed for slaves, merchandise loaded on ships to trade with the “kings” for slaves, invoice/inventory of daily trips that brought our ancestors here; so much she told me. About the “elite” blacks in the U.S. who owned slaves, some who were worst than white owners and just as prosperous or more. I was so dam embarrassed because I lived amongst people who shook their fist, prayed to be hollier than thow, claim to be righteous, yet if they knew it they called it something else. I believe that’s 95% of our problem today, not acknowledging the truth so we could get pass it and learn to push on in spite of. Learn to take responsibility for something FOR A CHANGE. But instead somebody creates a FAKE willie lynch letter to add insult to injury. I take what our folk say with a grain of salt now, have to check everything out. I have no desire to go to Africa, didn’t leave a thing over there, don’t grieve for the place, don’t know anybody there I NEED to see. I’m tired of the URBAN playa hating myths, the cultural mumbo jumbo, the hate mongering, and decided to go my own path. In God’s eyes tradition and culture are a sin anyway because it keeps his children from his teachings, to following man’s way of life. Man can’t bless anybody or give anybody salvation, but he can cause confusion big time. I pray that people realize this and take responsibility for their own paths in life. The children’s futures depends on it.
Comment by Willie — 09.13.06 @ 4:28 pm
“For black people in Africa or the U.S. to acknowledge we were sold by our own is too little too late.”
It never bothered me one bit that the Vikings and dozens of other white groups were busy enslaving fellow white people 1500 to 500 years ago. Not to mention the Italians / Romans enslaved everyone.
Don’t see why blacks enslaving blacks should be bothered by it other than they have some racial superiority problem that blacks would never do that to each other.
Comment by UNK — 09.13.06 @ 8:30 pm
also for those of you who paid attention in History or Economics, Europe had the Black Plague which killed more people than ever were removed from Africa.
“After the Black Death decimated Europe in the 1340s, land rents crashed while wages soared”
and virtually all academics agree that economically this helped - of course not nice to get sick and die.
If you want to blame slavery for Africa’s problems, you need to construct a weak-institutions causality.
Comment by UNK — 09.13.06 @ 8:44 pm
37: Darkstar assumes I am on board with the idea of the “damage†colonialism did to Africa and the idea that modern Africa has adopted that “damage†as an excuse not to excel.
DarkStar makes no such assumption.
In 38, Shade writes: I made a post critical of black Africans, including the tendency of black Africans to blame colonization on their current problems. Darkstar notes that under any other circumstance, you would have been in 100% agreement with me and your last post is pretty much evidence of this.
And Shade’s reading is correct.
but I think I can guess, given the poverty in Africa today and its Third World status, that black Africans - or blacks anywhere - would still be better off if they lived in the United States.
It’s illogical. Some good science fiction has been written concerning “alternate universes” that key on what would have happened if X became Y. In fact, one of THE Christmas movies of all time, “It’s A Wonderful Life”, shows this very point.
Comment by DarkStar — 09.13.06 @ 9:02 pm
Shade please do not gloat. There have been black Africans who have spoken up for black Americans too. And don’t pretend that there are no black Americans that look down on black Africans. Your use of stats makes me think you’re one of them. To see black people using stats against each other is sad and pathetic. So pathetic!
Comment by Dems — 09.14.06 @ 11:11 am
And just to let you guys know…this isn’t the first time black Africans have acknowleged their role in the slave trade.
Comment by Dems — 09.14.06 @ 11:13 am
Dems
Shade’s reply was 100 percent on point.
He is responding to Yemi Olu’s impliying that American blacks are whiners, niave, uneducated (we don’t read),we are lazy, The Get off your behinds and work comment) and the tirade begin with the assumption or indication that we somehow have been asking Africa to apologize for slavery, when we have not. In that the entire post was uneccessary.
His Wendy Williams comment is indictive to how we have been stereotyped. Again, I’m the average African American (black American) and I don’t read Wendy Williams and really don’t care about her.
Or that somehow we can’t have respect for Africa or try to reconnect to something that was forcefully taken from us. No one else puts this burden on anyone but us. If whites want to romanticize the Roman Empire, medieval Europe, current Western societies, languages, styles, and ideals, its allowed. Once a black American decides they want to maybe reconnect to African than it is the crime of the century.
Then he is responding to the hear hears, and ‘telling the truth’ about us.
He is also responding to the indications that we , black Americans, should accept the dehumanization and discrimination , and hypocrisy we faced in American because its , ” Better than Africa” which is illogical because the two have nothing to do with each other and we haven’t been africans for a long long time.
Comment by Z — 09.14.06 @ 11:51 am
my 2 cents on Africans / African Americans:
The argument it could be worse in a different location (Africa) or different time period (Europe in 1940) is a red herring and not relevant for comparing conditions in one location today.
But arguments from African immigrants who come here today and succeed, despite some discrimination, is relevant.
It could be self selection of the type of people I meet and type of people who are immigrants, but most of the African immigrants I meet speak better English and dress decently (not like thugs or bums)
Comment by UNK — 09.14.06 @ 12:29 pm
“I’m not going to get deep into the IQ thing since it uses statistics from people who give genetic reasons for IQ differences between races (which I’m skeptical of). If you want to find out, google Richard Lynn, Charles Murray, etc.”
Charles Murray speaks well, but he has a Ph.D. in POLITICAL SCIENCE, not any psychology field. Derbshire or whatever his name is failed to mention this - from another thread - while insulting Steven Jay Gould for haveing only a Ph.D. in planentology (spelling?)
Comment by UNK — 09.14.06 @ 12:36 pm
Thank you Z for actually reading and understanding where I’m coming from.
Dems: Shade please do not gloat.
Please don’t falsely accuse me of gloating.
There have been black Africans who have spoken up for black Americans too.
Show me where I have said otherwise.
And don’t pretend that there are no black Americans that look down on black Africans.
Show me where I have pretended this.
Your use of stats makes me think you’re one of them.
What you think is irrelevant to what is truth.
To see black people using stats against each other is sad and pathetic. So pathetic!
You remind me of those individuals who are quick to castigate an American for criticizing another country, but readily accept a person from another country criticizing Americans. I tend to consider this sad and pathetic. This is shown by how you conveniently ignored the fact that this particular discussion started with a rather brutal attack on black Americans by a person from Africa and I responded in a way to show how hypocritical it was. Period. I have no desire to put down Africa and would generally be more inclined to defend her, yet I don’t see anything wrong with constructive criticism even if statistics are involved.
UNK: It could be self selection of the type of people I meet and type of people who are immigrants
Typically, immigrants from overseas are the cream of the crop and often come as students.
Comment by Shade — 09.14.06 @ 2:12 pm
Dont forget Asians Lashawn..We just had a huge bust down here on an Asian sex slave ring…run exclusively by Asians.
Posts like this continue to remind me of the depravity of man.
We will lie, cheat, steal, kill, do anything for that money.
Comment by lukeNC — 09.14.06 @ 3:25 pm
I’d love to see someone actually come out and admit that all of us are just as bad as the other. We’ve all done it illegally, immorally..etc..I’m talking races of people here.
Most of what I’m reading today is just a glorified finger pointing game:
1. what color did what to what color
2. how the media reports on what color does what
3. the liberal or conservative bias
4. which color did what to the other color and when.
5. that color is responsible for what this color is doing today or not doing today.
All this is silly and pointless to me.
This is the reason why race problems cannot be solved in this world system.
It would require that all men of all races realize that they are inherently full of sin and unrighteous, just as much as the next guy, and in need a savior. And everyone realizing that no one is better than anyone else in God’s eyes.
There’ll never be a majority thinking this way, therefore the race problem cannot be solved in this world.
Just my thought…
Comment by lukeNC — 09.14.06 @ 3:41 pm
…and there it is…in a nutshell.
Comment by Tiffany in Houston — 09.14.06 @ 4:10 pm
“Typically, immigrants from overseas are the cream of the crop and often come as students.”
That’s sort of what I expected.
Still comparing blacks of the same IQ, some from Africa, some from the inner cities, might point out that the problem has something to do with individual motivation or black culture.
I suppose comparing black immigrants to white immigrants from the same financial background – not comparing poor Umi who had to search for books to read to some well off Irish immigrant – would yield some insight into if and how much discrimination there is.
I just skimmed that Enough book at the bookstore and seemed good except for the lack of footnotes and academic studies beyond ad hoc examples. Colorful Bill Cosby examples, but some more academic rigor would be nice. Nice book review in the Examiner Lashawn.
Comment by UNK — 09.14.06 @ 4:53 pm
History question? Prior to the coming of the Europeans, how many nations/races of people have been able to acheive and maintain world domination for any length of time wholly to lies, murder, robbery(piracy) kidnapping and generally deceptive practices (coming with the bible and the cross to civilize the heathens; All the indigenous people of the earth).
Comment by e — 09.15.06 @ 4:12 am
Slavery has been a part of human history almost since the beginning of time. It has been utilized in all continents (including Africa within its borders) as a strategic military and economic weapon against other tribes and/or civilizations. The Atlantic slave trade is America’s legacy, although slavery goes on to this day all over the world in its many forms including white slavery, human trafficking, criminal syndicates, labor exploitation, sex tourism and so on. The Atlantic African slave trade was a holocaust, and there were heroes and heroines on both sides of the fence as there were villains. I hope there can one day be a serious discussion on the long term moral consequences of slavery on America whether we are descended from those slaves or not.
And as long as a slave was considered BY LAW to be only 3/4 human, they could not be “americans” during the slave period. Those rights as citizens were not fully implemented until the 1960’s and some of us may argue have not been fully implemented until this day…
Comment by MAO — 09.16.06 @ 2:55 pm
Great discussion on a widely debated topic. I see one subscriber mentioned that slavery has been in existence for nearly all of humanity. Does this subscriber make the distinction between servitude and slavery, which by the way was sanctioned by the Church? Servitude was common to the indigenous people of Africa, not slavery. Do you really believe that they had the foresight to allow the second greatest tragedy in the history of humanity (the first being the piracy of African achievements) to happen to their neighbors, even if that neighbor was a sworn enemy? My advice would be to travel to the continent and learn about the nature of the people there, instead of basing opinions on information provide by the media about genocides and warring tribes. We were told that Africa had no history, that the people were uncivilized mongols that ate the bodies of the dead, and now best of all that the African is in some way as guilty as the slave trader. I respect the people of this blogosphere far too much to believe they would fall for that.
As for the West Africans, I would advise that people fully investigate the actual events. I would ask you to imagine a scenario where you return home from work to discover that you family is being held ransom. You are promised that your family will be returned provided that you find replacements for each family member. But instead of an exchange, your family members are abducted any way to a place and to conditions beyond your imagination. The African had seen servitude before, but never exposed to the model of slavery that we’re all too familiar with today. Understanding and healing must come from the TRUTH, not perpetuated lies that are devised to keep the African Diaspora from knowing who they really are. Call it propagandist rhetoric if you like, the reality remains that millions of people in this country and millions more world-wide undervalue their self-worth due to a lack of knowledge of their history. And issues such as the one that is the topic of this discussion only exasperate the problem.
Comment by Dean — 09.19.06 @ 12:27 am