La Shawn Barber
09.19.06

Michael Steele Ben Cardin

*** Scroll down for updates ***

[On a related note, back in 2002, Thomas V. Mike Miller, president of the MD Senate, called Michael Steele an “Uncle Tom.”]

I love the smell of scandal in the morning.

If you haven’t heard about Cardingate, let me fill you in. Last week, Wizbang Politics discovered that a staffer for U.S. Rep. Ben Cardin, the Democratic opponent to Republican Lt. Gov. Michael Steele in the Senate race in Maryland, was blogging under the name “Persuasionatrix” (cached copy).

Although the woman never named her employer, she said she was a member of the senior staff. Wizbang’s Kevin Aylward did some digging and found out her name is Ursula Gruber and she’s from Chicago. The mainstream media picked up the story pretty quickly:

So what’s the big deal about Persuasionatrix? She wrote some racially-charged things, and unfortunately, race is a big part of the Maryland Senate race.

First, in the post “Racism Card post,” she said that an incompetent black staffer faced with criticism from his supervisor pulled what I call “racial rank”:


And when his supervisor, after explaining the same detail seventeen different times, becomes frustrated and less then pleasant, he has one recourse that is only available to him because of the color of his skin…He plays the racism card, the magic passport to a different chain of command.

As someone who’s seen it action, I know it exists. “I’m being disciplined because I’m black!” or “He just hates black people, the racist!” I’ve been tempted to pull racial rank myself. Some blacks do it often; others sparingly. It’s a last resort measure when all else fails, although it may or may not have been true in this case.

Second, in the post “Forbidden Delights,” Gruber made reference to the 2002 Oreo cookie debacle involving Steele. While at a campaign stop, someone in the audience apparently tossed Oreos at Steele. [This account is “under dispute.”] Gruber seemed to think it was funny. Writing about how the cookies were “forbidden” in the office because of their connotation, she wrote: “Before I leave, however, I need a picture of all of us holding the forbidden cookies with the caption: ‘Devouring the Competition.’”

So what? you may ask. Here’s the story. Calling one another Oreos is something blacks do to imply that a black person is white on the inside, although black on the outside. In other words, they’re questioning a person’s “blackness.” If a black person isn’t spouting outdated rhetoric about how racist white people are, certain blacks consider him a sell-out. Or something like that. Dumb, I know, but that’s the way people are.

Honestly, I don’t think what Ursula Gruber blogged about was that bad. She just made the mistake of failing to cover her cyber-tracks. We’re all entitled to think how we want to think, after all.

Anyway, Gruber was fired on Friday. I and other bloggers believe she played a bigger role in the campaign than Cardin’s staff is letting on. I listened to Cardin’s interview on WBAL yesterday, and he said at least three times that the woman had been a junior staffer brought in to work on the “Get Out The Vote” campaign. On the blog, Gruber either puffed herself up, calling herself a senior staff member (it wouldn’t be the first time someone exaggerated their job duties, so she could be lying), or Cardin and his people are trying to downplay her role.

The American Spectator reports that Gruber was “steered to Cardin through MoveOn.org and the Democrat National Committee.” According to a “state Democratic operative,” Cardin’s people considered circulating a lie about the woman being a Republican plant.

We can assume Cardin, as a sitting Congressman running a Senate campaign, is quite busy and probably doesn’t have much contact with staffers. But two key questions emerge: 1) Is Cardin lying about Gruber’s role in his campaign; 2) Did Cardin know his staff considered the Republican plant story, and did he approve?

Integrity is an important quality in a candidate, and I’m sure voters in Maryland would be interested in the answers to those questions.

Cardin’s communications person rebuffed Kevin Aylward when he contacted them for comment, and I don’t think I’d fare much better. I would love to speak to someone on the inside. If that’s you, contact me.

Previous post: Michael Steele: Black and Right?

Update: Commenter Tyrone of Wake Up Black America writes:

When Mike Miller called Michael Steele an “Uncle Tom, democrats said nothing in prostest.

When a staffer of Chuck Schumer stole Michael Steele’s credit report, once again democrats said nothing in protest.

When blogger Steve Gilliard called Michael Steele a “Simple Sambo running for the big house”, democrats said nothing in protest

When the editor of the Baltimore Sun said,”The only thing Michael Steele brings to the ticket is the color of his skin”, democrats said nothing in protest.

When it comes down to this incident, all they can say is that it never happened. So do they also say the other incidents didn’t happen as well. Or is it a Vast Right wing Maryland Republican theory?

Let’s face it, the racist tactics used against Steele are well documented. No amount of down playing the Oreo cookie event can justify every other race tactics that was done to try and humiliate Steele. Sorry, but it just doesn’t fly.

More on Oreos at Hot Air. (via MM)

Posted by La Shawn @ 6:50 am Permalink
Filed under: Liberals    


29 Comments
  1. The Battle of November, 7 (September 19, 2006)

    New Media Lying or just misinformed?: La Shawn Barber thinks there’s more to the story of the Ben Cardin staffer who was fired for blogging as “Persuasionatrix.” (La Shawn Barber’s Corner) Major union changes sides: “A major union which…

    Trackback by Pajamas Media — 09.19.06 @ 10:12 am


  2. Steele has my support and my paltry campaign contribution. Since I live in Ohio, I can’t vote for him, but if I could, I would. He strikes me as a singularly qualified candidate with a moral center and a spine.

    In Ohio, I’ll be voting for DeWine and Blackwell. DeWine is not my dream candidate but he’s far superior to his opponent. Ken Blackwell won my vote when he stood up to the shreiking moonbats during the 2004 election campaign!

    Comment by Gayle Miller — 09.19.06 @ 10:34 am


  3. A bit of advice: If you want to participate in a blog discussion, don’t insult the blog hostess. You may try again, without the insults. - Admin

    Comment by james burgess — 09.19.06 @ 10:35 am


  4. Of course the RNC could have a role in this:

    Let’s take a look at the RNC and Steele track record:

    1) 2002 Run Off Election in Louisiana - RNC money put into circulating fliers in New Orleans claiming run off election between Landrieu and Republican is on a different day than the actual election

    2) Same election - RNC money used to pay black youth $75 to hold up posters saying Landrieu abandoned us.

    3) 2002 New Hampshire Senate Race - Republican operatives busted in Phone Jamming Scandal, yet RNC money used in legal defense fund of morally corrupt Republican, because he has been a long time supporter. What would Jesus do?

    As far as your Oreo Claims, Ehlrich and Steele have revised their claims so many times, I advise you to this link to get a more fair and unbiased report on what could have happened

    http://www.firedupmaryland.com/ehrlich_and_oreos

    and this link

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Steele

    Michael Steele is a two faced politician, not a genuine conservative with real moral convictions. He refuses to discuss his party membership in his ads, instead running cowardly ads talking about how he loves puppies. He anonymously bashes Bush comparing membership in the GOP to the Scarlet Letter, while simultaneously enjoying funds from Bush fundraisers done on his behalf.

    This pretty much sums up Steele’s moral convictions:

    ” In July of 2006, Steele posted photographs on his website that included him with prominent local and national Democrats from events where Steele appeared as the Lieutenant Governor, not as a candidate, without their permission. The posting came under criticism from the local party and Steny Hoyer (D-5th), and Steele removed the photos”

    You know those horrid liberals are winning the PR campaign when the GOP is running a candidate who supports affirmative action, arbitrary raises in the minimum wage, and runs away from the Republican label like its a death sentence.

    Comment by james burgess — 09.19.06 @ 10:58 am


  5. “As someone who’s seen it action, I know it exists. “I’m being disciplined because I’m black!” or “He just hates black people, the racist!” I’ve been tempted to pull racial rank myself. Some blacks do it often; others sparingly. It’s a last resort measure when all else fails, although it may or may not have been true in this case.”

    I don’t know anything about the Maryland race, but a third possibility in addition to “true” and “playing the race card dishonestly” is just honestly but incorrectly thinking that one was mistreated, not promoted because of race.

    If taught that whites will lynch you for looking at a white woman, of course you were not promoted because you were black.

    Comment by UNK — 09.19.06 @ 11:35 am


  6. ” Calling one another Oreos is something blacks do to imply that a black person is white on the inside, although black on the outside. In other words, they’re questioning a person’s “blackness.” If a black person isn’t spouting outdated rhetoric about how racist white people are, certain blacks consider him a sell-out. Or something like that. Dumb,”

    It’s the same as calling a white person a negro-lover. It’s a racist personal attack. Plenty of idiots around of both races, but I was surprised to see a black history professor use Oreo in his book title:

    Moore, a professor of African-American history at Louisiana State University, who’s writing a book titled Oreo in Chocolate City, about the Nagin years.

    Comment by UNK — 09.19.06 @ 11:39 am


  7. If your going to tell bold faced lies about Michael Steele, can you at least be more creative at doing it? I’m glad you brought up the oreo cookie episode. Maybe the Baltimore Sun or “Fired up Maryland” should interview me, seeing I was at Morgan when it happened. Just out of curiosity, is Fired Up Maryland a non partisan organization? Judging by their site, it doesn’t appear so.Also Next you will be saying that Mike Miller didn’t call Michael Steele an Uncle Tom back in 2002.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20051101-104932-4054r.htm
    http://baltimorechronicle.com/blackvote_nov02.shtml

    “2002 Run Off Election in Louisiana - RNC money put into circulating fliers in New Orleans claiming run off election between Landrieu and Republican is on a different day than the actual election”

    Please provide a creditable source to back up your claim. You probably believe that Bush blew up the leevys to kill black people too. Urban Legends are so fun.

    “Same election - RNC money used to pay black youth $75 to hold up posters saying Landrieu abandoned us”

    Once again, provide a credible source to back up that claim. If it happened, then it is clearly wrong. However, the burden of proof is with the accusers. That would be you.

    It’s funny that a non conservative such as yourself would even question the conservatism of Steele. You have to try a little harder to fool people

    “He anonymously bashes Bush comparing membership in the GOP to the Scarlet Letter, while simultaneously enjoying funds from Bush fundraisers done on his behalf”.

    Politicians in general do stupid tricks in campaigns, so your point again is? An honest politician? Steele also paid the price for it. Not to excuse Steele, but his campaign manager should also have been blamed. He’s the one who calls the shots.

    “) 2002 New Hampshire Senate Race - Republican operatives busted in Phone Jamming Scandal, yet RNC money used in legal defense fund of morally corrupt Republican, because he has been a long time supporter. What would Jesus do?”

    I’m not familiar with the story. As for the legal defense, I was under the assumption that a person is INNOCENT UNTIL “PROVEN” GUILTY. Maybe you think the opposite? Or unless they are Democrat. Dare I even mention William Jefferson?

    “You know those horrid liberals are winning the PR campaign when the GOP is running a candidate who supports affirmative action, arbitrary raises in the minimum wage, and runs away from the Republican label like its a death sentence”

    Are you really that new to politics? The GOP can’t run anybody. Republican elected Steele to run for the Senate. You really need to get your terminology straight. Nobody ever said Steele was a 100% conservative on all issue. If Steele was a 100% conservative on all issues, you would then call him an extremist. Talk about playing both sides of the fence. Seeing that all you claims were debunked? What else do you have? I’m bored.

    Comment by Tyrone — 09.19.06 @ 12:11 pm


  8. Tyrone - So is the Oreo cookie incident true? Did someone toss cookies at Steele?

    Comment by La Shawn — 09.19.06 @ 12:12 pm


  9. I find it rather amusing that the “Oreo Apologists” are clinging to a distinction without a difference, whether or not Oreo cookies were ever actually thrown at Steele, or were just used as nasty racist stage props by the anti-Steele contingent at that location. The issue is the Oreo insult itself. Period.

    Comment by RedBeard — 09.19.06 @ 12:18 pm


  10. I was at the debate as an observer. I wasn’t with the Ehrlich/Steele campaign at the time. Yes it is true La Shawn. Steele did find the Oreo cookie on the auditorium floor. The lightening in the audience was dark except for on the stage. I truly don’t believe that Steele would have bent down and planted a Oreo cookie on the floor. It wouldn’t have served no purpose.

    Comment by Tyrone — 09.19.06 @ 12:20 pm


  11. RedBeard, I’ve noticed that too.
    When Mike Miller called Michael Steele an “Uncle Tom, democrats said nothing in prostest.

    When a staffer of Chuck Schumer stole Michael Steele’s credit report, once again democrats said nothing in protest.

    When blogger Steve Gilliard called Michael Steele a “Simple Sambo running for the big house”, democrats said nothing in protest

    When the editor of the Baltimore Sun said,”The only thing Michael Steele brings to the ticket is the color of his skin”, democrats said nothing in protest.

    When it comes down to this incident, all they can say is that it never happened. So do they also say the other incidents didn’t happen as well. Or is it a Vast Right wing Maryland Republican theory?

    Let’s face it, the racist tactics used against Steele are well documented. No amount of down playing the Oreo cookie event can justify every other race tactics that was done to try and humiliate Steele. Sorry, but it just doesn’t fly.

    Fix your URL, Tyrone. You’ve got a comma instead of a period in front of the “com.” I made the correction for this and the other comment. - Admin

    Comment by Tyrone — 09.19.06 @ 1:27 pm


  12. Strange how nobody disputed the “Oreo incident” in 2002. No one from the Md. Democrats or Morgan State came forward then to say it didn’t happen. They just sat on their collective hands and kept their mouths shut. So, now four years later, we’re supposed to suddenly believe that it was all made up by the Republicans?

    Of course these are the same Democrats who want me to believe it’s Gov. Ehrlich fault that my electricity rates are going through the roof, when the seven-year rate freeze was done long before he was Governor, back when the Democrats had both the State House and the Governor’s Mansion.

    Comment by MikeM — 09.19.06 @ 1:27 pm


  13. Wikipedia link

    In July, the Union Leader reported [4] that one of Tobin’s attorneys told the court he was representing the defendant in his capacity as an employee of the Republican National Committee (RNC). Since the RNC had stated that Tobin was acting on his own in a rogue operation, it was asked, why would they be paying for his defense?

    In August, the RNC finally confirmed that it had spent more than $722,000 for Tobin’s defense by the major Washington firm of Williams & Connolly. “This support is based on his assurance and our belief that Jim has not engaged in any wrongdoing,” a spokesperson told the Associated Press. [5] The Union Leader reported in February 2006 that the RNC had paid $1.7 million to Williams on the day Tobin was sentenced, for a total of $2.5 million, and would neither confirm nor deny that it was still paying his legal expenses. [6]. The RNC’s first financial report of 2006 indicated that it by then spent another $330,000 [7].

    In Louisiana, flyers were distributed in African American communities stating, “Vote!!! Bad Weather? No problem!!! If the weather is uncomfortable on election day [Saturday, December 7th], remember you can wait and cast your ballot on Tuesday, December 10th.” (”GOP Outmaneuvered in La. Runoff,” Washington Post, 12/9/2002 at A4)

    Louisiana GOP Paid for Signs To Discourage African Americans From Voting

    The Louisiana Republican Party admitted to paying for signs aimed at discouraging African-Americans from voting. The signs said: “Mary, if you don’t respect us, don’t expect us.” According to the New York Times, “The Republicans paid black youths $75 today to hold the signs aloft on street corners in black neighborhoods.”

    This appeared in the Times-Picayune of 12/12/02

    So much for selling ideas such as individualism and personal responsibility,

    The Tobin mess certainly is unfortunate, but if black people in LA were gullible enough to be “tricked” into not voting by a few signs, perhaps they shouldn’t vote. It’s not unethical to pay someone to hold signs disparaging your opponent. It’s called “politics.” I had a few things to say about so-called voter intimidation. Funny how the “intimidated” are always black folks!

    http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2004/08/16/watch-out-for-jim-crow/ - Admin

    Comment by james burgess — 09.19.06 @ 1:33 pm


  14. In Louisiana, flyers were distributed in African American communities stating, “Vote!!! Bad Weather? No problem!!!

    That’s a classic Democratic tactic. Print up a few false flyers, plant them, “find” them, then claim Republicans did it. No evidence required. Happens every election in certain places.

    Comment by JohnAnnArbor — 09.19.06 @ 2:47 pm


  15. James B… there’s a reason Louisiana is known as the most corrupted state in the US, and NO the most corrupted city. BOTH parties in that state are beyond the pale… if located in another state most Louisiana politicians would end up in prison.

    In the recent mayoral elections, the people of NO had the choice between an incompetent boob and an indisputable criminal. They went for the boob.

    Who can blame them?

    Comment by mamapajamas — 09.19.06 @ 4:40 pm


  16. It’s not unethical to pay someone to hold signs disparaging your opponent. It’s called “politics

    For a Party that identifies with Christian values, is any of the behavior that took place in Lousiana or New Hampshire Christian?

    Considering the Repubs are divided into Christians and non, social and fiscal vs. fiscal only, etc., I’d be hard-pressed to identify the Republican party as “Christian.” But I get what you’re driving at. It’s still politics. :? - Admin

    Comment by Section1983mob — 09.19.06 @ 7:13 pm


  17. And let’s not forget that *anybody* can write an article for Wikipedia.

    Comment by Mary in LA (the one in CA) — 09.19.06 @ 7:26 pm


  18. Let me get this straight. Louisiana is the citadel of clean politics and the nasty Republicans have tried mightily to stain their virtue.

    Also, let me get another thing straight. Maryland is the paragon of political rectitude. But now the dirty, mean Republicans are using their dastardly Louisiana tricks on Maryland.

    Louisiana has a huge black population which has sent many blacks to Congress. I somehow can not recall their names. Oh, yeah, Ray Nagin. Maybe not.

    Maryland has a huge black population which has sent many blacks to Congress. I somehow can nor recall their names. Oh, yeah, there was an “Oreo” named Micheal Steele who didn’t know his place who dared to try.

    You know, I bet Micheal Steele has a bunch of money invested in the Oreo division of Nabisco and he has gotten advice from Halliburton on how to scam the public so the value of his stock will double. Yeah, that’s it.

    Run away, run away, the Negroes are coming!

    Comment by Heliotrope — 09.19.06 @ 8:56 pm


  19. “I was at the debate as an observer. I wasn’t with the Ehrlich/Steele campaign at the time. Yes it is true La Shawn. Steele did find the Oreo cookie on the auditorium floor. The lightening in the audience was dark except for on the stage. I truly don’t believe that Steele would have bent down and planted a Oreo cookie on the floor.”

    Just one cookie? Excuse me for being cynical, but if not thrown or placed on a podium with his text, isn’t sometimes just an Oreo on the ground trash?

    At least a few times in my life I myself have found an Oreo cookie on the ground.

    Comment by UNK — 09.19.06 @ 9:50 pm


  20. “It’s not unethical to pay someone to hold signs disparaging your opponent. It’s called “politics”"

    It’s also politics to point out that someone has to pay for supporters. One or two steps above paying for sex in my opinion.

    Comment by UNK — 09.19.06 @ 9:55 pm


  21. Some corrections to comments by Tyrone…

    When Mike Miller called Michael Steele an “Uncle Tom, democrats said nothing in prostest.

    That’s not true. Mike Miller caught flack from Black Dems in the MD Senate including Clarence Mitchell, IV, “C4″ and from Elijiah Cummings. Mike Miller apologized to Steele for the comments. I think Mike Miller is low down and is one of the Dems keeping the Black Dem politicians “in their place”.

    When a staffer of Chuck Schumer stole Michael Steele’s credit report, once again democrats said nothing in protest.

    Just because you used a broad brush, again, C4 said something in protest as well as Mfume.

    When blogger Steve Gilliard called Michael Steele a “Simple Sambo running for the big house”, democrats said nothing in protest

    Again, C4 and Mfume said something in protest.

    When the editor of the Baltimore Sun said,”The only thing Michael Steele brings to the ticket is the color of his skin”, democrats said nothing in protest.

    Once again, C4 did say something as did Larry Young.

    When it comes down to this incident, all they can say is that it never happened. So do they also say the other incidents didn’t happen as well. Or is it a Vast Right wing Maryland Republican theory?

    Some say it did’t happen. Some who were there say they didn’t see it happen. Some say they weren’t there so they don’t know. Some of said they saw Oreos on the floor.

    Some television and print media state they didn’t see it happen.

    For the record, I think it probably did happen. So why did I write the last 2 paragraphs? The facts as are undisputed, are damning enough. For Tyrone to state no Dems said anything, is an exaggeration.

    Now, before anyone writes anything about me defending Maryland Dems, read this http://darkstarspoutsoff.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/09/talking_educati_1.html
    and follow the links in post. I ain’t carrying no one’s water, but wrong is wrong and Tyrone got some information wrong.

    Comment by DarkStar — 09.19.06 @ 10:16 pm


  22. I listen to WBAL during the day and heard the show yesterday. While they were saying the comments were racist, they also mentioned the additional comments that were anti-semitic. The hosts also called her anti-semitic.

    This woman was a real piece of work. And I agree with one of the hosts who said there is more to this than meets the eye.

    Comment by DarkStar — 09.19.06 @ 10:24 pm


  23. Let me clarify: Some television and print media state they didn’t see it happen.

    There are television media people and print media people who were at the debate who have stated they didn’t see the Oreos being thrown.

    Again, clarification: The facts as are undisputed, are damning enough.

    There are enough undisputed facts, the Sun editorial, Mike Miller’s comments, and the stealing of Steele’s (pun not intended) social security number, that the exaggeration of “no democrats said anything” is unnecessary.

    Comment by DarkStar — 09.19.06 @ 11:20 pm


  24. Sorry to take exception to your comment UNK. Frankly it doesn’t matter if it was one OREO cookie or a thousand of them. It’s the symbolism behind the cookie. Since you mentioned disparaging signs, I have a very simple question for you. Maybe you can help me out with this. Can you name some a few Democrat candidates that used “racially disparaging” signs toward their black Democrat opponents? It’s so sad almost boarding on pathetic that you and people like you would excuse this as just politics. Its far from it. What exactly does racial symbolism attacks have to do with politics? Is racism in politics just one big joke to you? What exactly does politics mean to you? I’m so glad I don’t have your mindset. I wouldn’t be able to look at myself in the mirror.

    Comment by Tyrone — 09.19.06 @ 11:55 pm


  25. Steele should be elected (or not) based solely upon his ability to do the job. Everything else is nonsense. I’m sick of nonsense in politics. I’m sick of watching and reading about the people who foster the nonsense.

    I could more accurately rephrase that, using the scatological terminology that I’m really thinking, but I’ll behave myself.

    Comment by RedBeard — 09.20.06 @ 6:37 am


  26. Cry me a river Darkstar. Maybe I should have clarified it for.

    “Once again, C4 did say something as did Larry Young”

    You got me Darkstar, C4 and Larry Young are the power players and voice of the Maryland Democrat Party lol. When I said Democrat(s) Darkstar, I meant more then just two democrats by the way.
    You know perfectly well what I meant, when I said no democrats spoke out.

    “Mike Miller apologized to Steele for the comments”
    I wonder why he “apologized”, he sure didn’t do it on his own accord. Did Miller apologize only because C4 and Cummings said something? Once again I see you mentioned C4. Is C4 the only democrat of some type of moral integrity in the Maryland Democrat Party? Maybe C4 needs to have a meeting with the likes of Delegate Salima Marriott or Lisa Gladden. You remember Darkstar don’t you? “Part trumps race ring a bell”? http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20051101-104932-4054r.htm

    “Mike Miller apologized to Steele for the comments”.
    Why did he make those comments in the first place Darkstar?

    “Now, before anyone writes anything about me defending Maryland Dems, read this”

    Way to go Darkstar, you disagreed with democrats on one issue. Dare I call you a Maverick? I disagree with President Bush and republicans on several issues, yet I’m still a republican. So your point is what?

    Comment by tyrone — 09.20.06 @ 1:45 pm


  27. Tyrone, “words mean things.”

    I wonder why he “apologized”, he sure didn’t do it on his own accord.

    Correct, he didn’t. In that case, it was because he was catching heat from Black Democrats.

    Way to go Darkstar, you disagreed with democrats on one issue.

    Actually, I disagree with the majority of Maryland Dems in the assembly on more than one issue. From the top of my head, gun control, taxes, education policies, voter registration identification, and Wal-Mart.

    And for the ump-teenth time, I’m not a Democrat.

    Comment by DarkStar — 09.20.06 @ 9:55 pm


  28. Beauty and Black Girls

    I was reading a column by Miami Herald columnist Leonard Pitts http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/living/columnists/leonard_pitts/15545216.htm in which he discussed a short film created by Kiri Davis, a black female student, about the problems youn…

    Trackback by The Dark Truth — 09.21.06 @ 2:24 am


  29. Strange how nobody disputed the Oreo incident in 2002. No one from the Md. Democrats or Morgan State came forward then to say it didnt happen.

    Not true. THere were denials then.

    Comment by DarkStar — 09.22.06 @ 6:38 pm