Thursday, October 5: This post is still open to commenting, but check the latest post for fast-developing news.
Wednesday, October 4: The “witch” hunt is on. No comment. 
Update (10/3): Dennis Hastert is digging in. By the way, don’t be surprised by the depravity of this scandal. Man is capable of much, much worse.
(Note: You may read and discuss Foleygate here)
This message is for Republican “political strategies” and scared politicians who think Foleygate will “depress” conservative Christian turnout next month. Despite this alarmist story, I don’t think the GOP has to worry about conservative Christians not voting. The fact that Republicans leaders knew about Mark Foley’s perversion and didn’t do enough to stop it won’t stop us from performing out civic duty or from pulling the lever for Republicans.
We, more than most, are keenly aware of man’s frailty. It is a mirror reflecting our own. (Also see Congressman Mark ‘Page Boy’ Foley Resigns.)
Years ago, I was a bit shocked to find out that not all Republicans were conservatives and that not all conservatives were Christians. I’m embarrassed to admit it now. I know such thinking was irrational and illogical, but it was an illusion I lived under for many years.
Growing up surrounded by people who voted for Democrats for no other reason than tradition, I had many strange ideas about Republicans. First, as most black kids are taught, I thought they were all bigoted, self-righteous, religious, intolerant racists. I was hostile to Christ, Christians in general, and to “right wingers.” Second, I thought there was some vast conspiracy among them to keep me “oppressed.” Once I grew a brain and learned to think and examine the issues for myself, I found that I agreed with Republicans on many social issues. I knew I could never go back to voting for Democrats.
I began drifting toward the right while working for a Democratic senator on the Hill, and I was glad Republicans pushed the Clinton impeachment issue. A sitting president could not be allowed to get away with lying to a federal grand jury and using the machinery of government to cover up his tacky infidelity, which, to top it off, was committed inside the White House.
It didn’t matter that a handful of Republican senators thought Clinton’s acts couldn’t sustain a vote for conviction. The Republican House managers did the right thing, and the Republican senators who voted to convict Clinton for perjury and obstruction did the right thing.
If [Somebody could have told me about this typo.] I wish there were a viable third political party of fiscal and social conservatives, one I could be passionate about, but there isn’t. I’m stuck with Republicans. The idea of voting for a Democrat is almost unthinkable, so I’m caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place.
No party can be all things to all people, but that shouldn’t stop me from complaining. As I sat in the ballroom of the Omni Shoreham hotel last week, listening to Christian and social conservatives criticizing the Bush administration but asking, “What other choice do we have?”, I was comforted by the fact that I wasn’t alone. Being around other Christians is a wonderful thing. We “Values” voters will turn out in November. I feel strongly about the need to vote, even if it’s the lesser of two evils. (See my column, Summit signals power of religion in public life.)
So this “values voter” will head to the polls on November 7. My non-voting representative isn’t up for re-election, but I’ll vote for the Republican mayoral candidate who doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning, and my civic duty will be done. This man will be the new mayor, the private school-prepped Democrat who doesn’t believe taxpaying parents with kids in failing schools should get vouchers so they can send their kids elsewhere. At least that’s the impression I got when I read his response to my op-ed.
Yes, conservative Christians are extremely disappointed with the Republican party, but I don’t think Republicans on the Hill need to worry about us. The leadership screwed up, and no matter what they say now, it looks like they gave cover to a predator because they didn’t want a scandal to jeopardize his House seat. That’s really bad, but I have a lot more faith that Republican leaders will make amends than I’d have toward any Democrat.
(Hat tip: Alabama Liberation Front)
—————————————————————————————————————–
Foleygate developments: Drudge is reporting that ABC’s Brian Ross is hearing from pages about other Congress members. Watch this page for updates.
Other stories:
- Foley and His Friends
- Washington Times calls for Hastert’s resignation as Speaker of the House.
- Opinion Journal: “What next was Mr. Hastert supposed to do with an elected Congressman? Assume that Mr. Foley was a potential sexual predator and bar him from having any private communication with pages? Refer him to the Ethics Committee? In retrospect, barring contact with pages would have been wise.” Emphasis added.
- Did Democrats Page Mark Foley?
- The Problem Isn’t Foley
Bloggers:
- Hugh Hewitt says “Don’t resign, Speaker Hastert. Swing back.”
- Outside the Beltway: Should Hastert and Frist Go?
- Wizbang
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{ 40 comments }
So, you’re “stuck” with the Republicans, eh? That’s what they’re counting on. What a way to build a base.
AC
So what else should I do, Andrew? I’ve flirted with coming out strongly for the Constitutionalist or some other party.
There is no viable 3rd party option so thats why we see what we see today…partisan politics. Everything is played off the democrat or republican angle. *yawn*
Only issue I feel strongly about is abortion, whichever candidate opposes on demand abortion is the one I vote for. If its a liberal or conservative, republican or democrat, I dont care.
I have no loyalty to either party whatsoever. I should change my affiliation to independent.
I could care less about sidebar issues like gay marriage, affirmative action, taxes, illegal immigration etc etc etc…
“Democrats on the ethics review panels were kept uninformed about the allegations against Republican Foley.”
I’d call that a cover-up.
This is what’s wrong with one party rule of all three branches, no oversight.
Fox chicken coop.
And what do I hear from the Grand Old Party? “Democratic Smear Job”, “CREW Knew”, “16 is the age of consent”. The GOP LEADERSHIP KNEW AND DID NOTHING IN TERMS OF OVERSIGHT!
A 16 YEAR OLD BOY IS ABOVE THE AGE OF CONSENT????
THIS IS WHAT THE GOP IS OFFERING AS A DEFENSE? THAT IT’S OK for a 52 year old man to prey on a 16 year old boy???
Maybe in DC and Florida, but not over the Internet it isn’t.
I hope the GOP loses EVERY ELECTION this fall. EVERY ONE! They’ve placed party above morals. AND EVERYONE WHO DEFENDS THEM IS DOING THE SAME THING.
It is unfortunate that we have these scandals from time to time. I think that whatever it is that drives people into politics, it also draws in some despicable people. I do think there are good people in politics, though they seem to get lost in the blind struggle to retain power.
Mark Foley doesn’t care what damage he has done to the Republican party and the Republican leadership may care about what he has done, but only as it affects their “base”.
So, I agree in principle with lukeNC. Our votes must be based upon our values even if the people we are voting for do not share them.
I always tell my children, never make any human being your role model, they all have feet of clay (including me).
Foley is out- good riddance! But before people decide to cast their votes for the Dems, remember Barney Frank and Mel Reynolds. Clinton even pardoned Mel Reynolds who now works for ****Rainbow Coalition*****! And Barney is still seated!!!!! At least Foley is gone.
LaShawn – I’m not sure what else you can do, other than weigh the actions of the leadership of both parties in the balance, and then follow your conscience. It sounds like you’re doing that. That’s what I’ve done as well, and that’s why I’m more likely to vote for a Democrat than a Republican these days. A vote for a Constitutionalist or a Libertarian is, unfortunately, a throw-away vote.
AC
LaShawn,
I couldn’t agree with you more. Rep. Foley’s actions are disgraceful and Speaker Hastert should resign immediately. However, when it comes down to ISSUES, especially who will keep this country safe? I trust the GOP way more than the Dems. As for the D.C. Mayor candidate who responded to your op-ed, isn’t it typical that the first thing liberals cry is “we’re underfunded by the feds!” Yeah, look what the money the federal government sent through the years has accomplished… Run-down schools, crime, dropouts. I’m glad I don’t live in D.C. anymore.
I have grown weary of voting for the lesser of two evils. The are still both evil. In my opinion, the Republicans aren’t that much better than the Democrats. Both are corrupt. Both are harlots selling their services to the highest bidder.
There was a time when I thought voting for Republicans would make a difference. I have awakened from that dream. Bush and the Republicans were elected on a pro-life, anti-homosexual marriage platform. What have they done? Nothing!
I refuse to vote for Republicans just to keep the Democrats out. I choose none of the above. This is God’s judgment on the American people. He has given us over to a reprobate mind. We are corrupt and have elected corrupt politicians to rule over us.
We’ve moved over to the Constitution Party. They may not be likely to win ths year, but if more true conservatives would get on board, we could STOP voting for the lesser of two evils… which is still a vote for evil.
La Shawn:
I believe the pundits have missed one point concerning Foley.
Considering his affinity for boys, Hastert et al hesitated strong censure because they feared being labled HOMOPHOBES.
This is an important issue, because Log Cabin Republicans are an important swing vote.
There are the facts, and there are the politics that derive from the facts. For an interesting view of the politics, check out this link:
http://tinyurl.com/p8j3o
This is an American Thinker, and is the short version. It contains a link to:
http://tinyurl.com/mkkd4
This is the link to Hotline blog, which has the long version.
I guess I could never be a politician – I just can’t think this way. Where do people learn the skills to manipulate stuff like this???
>>They’ve placed party above morals. AND EVERYONE WHO DEFENDS THEM IS DOING THE SAME THING.>>
There is the law, and then there are morals. I don’t think _anyone_ is defending the morals of Foley. When it comes to the others, though, I think that you do have to consider the laws. If you have only one standard which constitutes both morals and the law – in other words, you do legislate morality – you end up with some version of the Taliban. If you have two standards – one moral and one legal – then people _are_ going to do things that are legal, but which may not be moral. And there are a number of things that don’t fall clearly in either camp.
Foley is out. That’s a good thing. Before you throw the baby out with the bath water though, it’s probably adviseable to wait for all the facts to be known. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that. And then read the American Thinker link I provided…it’s elucidating.
Andrew “So, you’re “stuck†with the Republicans, eh? That’s what they’re counting on. What a way to build a base.”
All Republicans are not Foley, the Conservative base obviously isn’t made up of the likes of Foley.Yes Foley is a Republican, but most people knew he wasn’t a Conservative. Thats the diffrence. The base is made up of “Conservative” not just “Republicans”. Also its not a matter of being “stuck”. As long as Conservatives are working hard with in the Republican Party, I don’t see it as being stuck. I see it as trying th get things done.
The Washington Times should dredge up the story it broke in 1989 about the DC pedophile ring that ensnared high ranking members of Congress and the White House during the Reagan/Bush presidencies. I wonder if this covered up pedophile ring was ever really put out of business. Who knows how many supposedly conservative Christians in the government may be hiding their true identities as homosexual child predators?
Here’s yet another angle…why do I feel like I’m being manipulated?
http://tinyurl.com/hf2yc
You were manipulated when you were lied into an illegal war, but this thread is about Foley.
I believe in the war and don’t think Bush lied about the reasons, although I wish we’d gone in MUCH more aggressively. I don’t believe in sheilding a predator to save a Republican House seat, however. You don’t like my blog topics? Go away and don’t come back. Life’s too short. – Admin
This scandal highlights the difference between conservatives and liberals.
The conservatives are screaming at their leaders for their lack of action in stopping this child abuse sooner.
Liberals protect the criminals in their midsts. (Clinton and his ‘underdesk intern’ – a classic case of criminal sexual harassment of an employee.)
I just wonder who kept this hidden until now..which Democrat has orchestrated the timing. And I think we will know this before the November election.
Marvin,
Sexual harassment is not criminal. Moreover, Monica was an adult, not a child. There are criminal laws against what Foley is accused of. There is no man-made law against adultery. There is no difference. Many have tried to point to examples of democrats sexual misgivings. But the folly with that logic, is that sin is sin. Right now, we have a sin and possibly a crime against a child and the fact that the leadership failed to do anything about it. Deal with that issue and how it will affect the election?
Without question, this scandal will hurt the republicans this election. Not because of Foley’s alleged actions, but because the leadership will be viewed as tacitly condoning his conduct. Because the leadership failed to be leaders, they are not fit to lead. Principal required the leadership to take action even though it would have come at a political cost. That’s what leaders do.
Lashawn
You sound as if you have gone from blindly voting for democrats to blindly voting for republicans. I agree some democrats are feckless but so are some republicans. Shouldn’t we vote for people, despite party affiliation, who demonstrate an ability to make wise decisions for the betterment of everyone, not just their constituency?
Oh horsepuckey.
Te Republicans don’t give a damn about gays, they care about keeping a majority. So this the excuse they hung their avoidance on.
Do you really think the party of Rick “Man on Dog” Santorum gives a crap about gays?
Black folks, and I am one of them, vote Democrat because yours is the party of Bob Jones University and Katrina.
I’ve made more money in the last 10 years than my parents made in their entire lives. I pay more taxes then most lower class folks earn, and still I would crawl over broken glass before voting Republican.
Your party is losing not one war but two, have driven debt into the stratosphere, and encouraging schools to teach that the Earth is 10,000 years old.
Worst of all, the Army that I love, one that unlike so-called conservatives I served in, is being crushed by the demands of an inept civilian leadership and is in so bad a shape we couldn’t deploy if we had to.
You elected and re-elected these clowns, so sow the whirlwind.
Now, when some Blacks say something similar about their support for Dems over Repubs, Blacks are blasted for their “thinking” on the matter…
Anyway, I’ve voted Constitution party and Tax Payer party in the past.
Tyrone – For the record, “stuck” is LaShawn’s term, not mine.
AC
#25 Antonio states: ” Monica was an adult, not a child.”
Oh, pah-leeeeze!!! Monica was 19. The aides were 16. The age of consent in D.C. is 16. If Monica wanted an abortion at 14, most liberals would say she was old enough to get the baby killed without dragging her mommy along.
Clinton was an overly large adult. He had a law degree. He was a Rhodes Scholar. He had been AG of Arkansas. He had been governor of Arkansas. He was acutely skilled at feeling the pain of others. He was President of the United States. He had a daughter of nearly the same age. He was vain enough to think that his plumbing parts were woman magnets. How does anyone with a shred of morality give him a pass, let alone a pat on the back?
Foley sought the page(s) out and he got dumped for it. Clinton could have signaled the Secret Service guy and he would have hauled Monica off of him. But he didn’t, as you well know.
All spring, the Dems were howling about the Republicans being the party of corruption. Then Rep. Jefferson got caught up to his nose in graft and corruption. So they dropped that mantra and tried another course of tirade. How the democrats can single out Foley when they have closets full of their own scandals is beyond understanding. But, by golly, they are going to try it.
I would be delighted if the Democrats would come up with one productive well thought through idea that would make them worthy of being elected. They believe in getting rid of the tax cuts, why not campaign on it? They believe in national health care, why not campaign on it? They believe in getting out of Iraq, then set the date and campaign on it. They believe in gay marriage, why not write a Constitutional Amendment and campaign on it? They believe in unions, protective tariffs and oppose Nafta, then they should get out and campaign for it. They believe in checking everything that comes into the ports, why not lay out the plan and campaign on it? They believe in getting the French and Germans to join in the heavy lifting, then they should propose the method and campaign on it. They want the United Nations to direct foreign affairs and control international forces, they should campaign on it. They believe in talking one on one with Syria, Palestine, North Korea, etc., then why not campaign on it?
Those would be just a few things……. But the Dems would rather drag us through Foley’s instant messages for a month. What a bunch of statesmen.
52(?) year old man, sending “dirty email/IM” to a 16 year old and people “defend” by using the “age of consent”?
OK, just admit your point is morally unsound and move on.
#28 & 25…
That sums up the political game today, a continuous and unending line of one-upmanship between two inept parties.
I say the republicans are just as bad as the democrats and vice versa…
And another thing…maybe voting isnt the way to get what you want in America anymore…its all about money and lobbyists these days isnt it?
If you want your elected officials to vote your way, you’ll need to come up with that cash baby…
Goodness, La Shawn,
I admire you as a person of integrity and intelligence, so please, stop drinking the Kool-Aid. You’re better than this. The current batch of Republicans do not represent conservative Christians any more than the Democrats.
I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils. Power corrupts and the Republicans in D.C. are a great example of this. Don’t continue being loyal to clowns who have consistently betrayed us.
Come November, for the first time since I became eligble to vote, 1974, I’m staying home.
Gays are an important swing vote? That’s the funniest line I’ve heard in a long time. Yes, like the GOP is really courting those gays by trying to write them out of the US Constitution. Afraid of being called anti-gay? We call them anti-gay every single day, so I hardly think exposing Foley’s comments would make gay people angry at the GOP.
Puh-leeze!
As for Heliotrope, where do we begin when we want to talk about Republican sleeze? Tom DeLay, Abramoff, Duke Cunningham, Safavian — these are the GOP operatives either indicted or sent to jail just in the last year alone. So don’t act like Foley and Hastert and Reynolds and the only ones who are corrupt. You have quite a lineup already.
I’d like to take the hopeful perspective that the majority of Congressmen are honorable. With this is mind I would like to give the leader of one of our country’s three branches of government the benefit of the doubt (albeit a short leash considering the vulnerability of the young pages). Is it simply possible that to force Foley to resign any earlier than now would have been solely based on the relatively tame emails? To do that in this day and age would have surely been to the voice “that the Republicans are intolerant” – and “bashing a man for being a homosexual” was “just unbelievable” (with an elitist intellectually superior tone). if this is reasonable to consider than I think too many people aren’t thinking this out very well. We really need to rise above reactionary conjecture and wait for more facts to be revealed. In any case Mr. Hastert isn’t exactly an inspiring leader to me, he may be a good middleman/broker but I hope when he is replaced it is by someone who can be articulate and passionately lead his party in its role in Congress.
I personally refuse to be politically manipulated and pandered into *not* voting. You wish, DNC!!!
Not all the facts are in yet re: how this was orchestrated.
I’m glad Foley has been exposed and dumped, and I hope Democrats will take an example and clean their own house as well. I remember being astounded that Barney Frank was allowed to remain in Congress.
I still believe there are at least a couple of good Congressman (having met them personally).
That means there are probably more decent folks in Congress than indecent. They don’t always do the job I want them to, it’s true, but then again, they sometimes do. I’m not going to throw a tantrum in November and refuse my civic duty to keep this country from sliding even *further* and *more quickly* downhill under Democratic leadership. At least there are still some conservatives trying to put the brakes on.
Hastert had the duty as leader of ‘our’ House of Representatives to do the right. He cannot use the excuse he didn’t read the emails, he should have. He cannot use the excuse he didn’t know about the IMs, he didn’t investigate. He cannot use the excuse he didn’t know about Foley’s unusual behavior with pages, it was well known.
We must have STANDARDS. He’s got to go.
Heliotrope,
First and last, stop lying. Monica was 22. That’s an adult who has graduated from college. Big difference between that and a kid in high school.
Black folks, and I am one of them, vote Democrat because yours is the party of Bob Jones University and Katrina.
Interesting. Because if you look at the history of both parties, your party would have you calling me “Miss Carol” as you were sweeping my floors. The Republican party was founded as the party of abolitionists. How it ended up in its current state, I have no idea, but I do know it both sickens and saddens me.
>>First and last, stop lying. Monica was 22.>>
Maybe. I’ve seen 19, 20 and 22 in various places. I don’t really know which one is correct. I suspect part of the different ages are when the relationship started, when the investigation began and when the actual court case took place.
I’d agree that she was an adult – even if she was only 19 at the time their relationship began – but the other factor is the President-Intern difference, just as with Foley it’s a matter of Congressman-intern. In other words, there are a number of complicating issues in this mess.
Worth checking…
http://tinyurl.com/jebqp
The problem I have with the “At least they’re not as as bad as the Democrats” idea is that, while its true now, if the current trends continue it won’t be for much longer.
The best reason I can find to vote Republican in this next election is this:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000950.html
Which essentially says, vote Republican so we can marginalize the Democrats enough so that the Republican party can split along its libertarian vs social conservative wings. I for one find “values voters” almost as distasteful as Democrats but at present we’re in a coalition of convenience….
-MM
What is distastful to you about values Michael?
Isn’t it convenience over values that’s about to take down the third in line to the Presidency?
Think about how better off the Republican Party
would be right now if they had stuck by the values we expected, instead of the convenience.
I don’t remember a Democrat ever resigning, or certainly not forced to by their own party, and we don’t expect it because their values don’t expect ‘responsiblity’.
Nothing is distasteful about values. What’s distasteful is a government that’s powerful enough to enforce one person’s values over another. Values are the personal expression of morals, not something governments enforce.
If we disagree then that’s the fundamental difference that’s going to split the coalition eventually….
Geesh Michael, Gov’ts enforce value judgements in the form of LAWS all the time. It is one of their responsibilies to promote the common good and prevent anarchy for heaven sake.
Let’s take the Foley folly as an example. Gov’t has made a law that states 16 or lower is a minor. This was a value judgement put into Law by the peoples elected Representatives in order to protect children from people like Foley.
If your moral value is inconsistent with this one, you may try to reduce, increase, or illiminate the law by getting enough voters to agree with your value and elect representatives that will change it.
Our whole society is held together by Laws the majority of people we elected to represent us found to be necessary to address problems between us……like killing each other or molesting children in this case. It’s basic……isn’t it?
It’s simple. If you found out that a teacher was sending these IMs and emails to your 16 year child, you would want his head on a platter. And if you discovered that the principal knew about it, or the VP or the gym teacher, and they did nothing, you would want them out as well.
If you found out that your 21 year old daughter’s college professor was banging her in the classroom, you would hate it, but it wouldn’t be the same. It might be unethical, but it would Apples and Wrenches.
We are the party that ran on “Values”. We aren’t supposed to look at this and scream, well they did it too! We are supposed to take the moral high ground, admit culpability and say, Party be damned, this is about protecting the kids. If we don’t we are guilty of the hypocrisy we charge them with every day.
How can anyone who cares about security or moral values vote for Republicans? This is the most corrupt, morally bankrupt party in U.S. history.
On moral values: They protected a sex predator in order to maintain their hold on power. This is simply disgusting, and worse than anything the Democrats ever did. Clinton and Barney Frank engaged in consensual affairs, they did not prey on underage kids.
Republicans talk about banning abortion, but they’ll never do it when push comes to shove. Why? Cause they care more about power and big business than they care about Christian voters. They will continue wooing Christians but will never deliver.
Republicans have bankrupted the country with massive debts. They have sent thousands of soldiers to die in a war that has nothing to do with 9/11. They support Rumsfeld, who had bungled the war from day one. Republicans refuse to raise the minimum wage or provide health care for children. Is that what you call moral values?
On security: Bush never sent enough troops to Afghanistan. He let Osama Bin Laden escape at Tora Bora in 2001. Now Bin Laden is free and we aren’t even looking for him. Republicans have turned the Homeland Security department into another inept FEMA-like pork barrel department. They don’t guard our borders, our ports, or our nuclear plants. The CIA just said that the Iraq War is creating more terrorists who hate America.
Democrats are not as corrupt as Republicans, not even close. How many Republicans have to go to jail before you realize this? If you are disgusted by the many failures of this Congress, you DO have a choice. Vote Democrat!
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