Monday, October 23: This post is closed to commenting, but you may continue the discussion at Duke Rape Case: The Bloggers.
Update II (10/17): Crack of dawn shout-up from Lucianne. Thanks!
Update: Justice 4 Two Sisters, (former?) defender of the strippers, writes:
“First, by this point I’ve given up hope the child’s [Kim Roberts] attorney, Mark Simeon, has any control of her wardrobe choices, with that skirt she was sporting slit up to her pelvic bone…Secondly, the glibness of her responses sounded more like she was being grilled by a boyfriend about her whereabouts that night, rather than the facts in a felony sexual assault case… Even though I’ve defended her here, based on her actions, clearly the almighty dollar is what drives Ms. Kim to do anything.”
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“60 Minutes” — the show that tried to pass off obviously phony documents critical of President George Bush’s service in the National Guard as authentic, perpetrating a fraud on national television in order to help John Kerry’s political aspiration to become president of the United States — slightly redeemed itself last night.
Rather than playing hard left politics, the old dudes actually did what journalists are supposed to do: present facts to the American people. Host Ed Bradley said “60 Minutes” examined the case file, and it raised concerns about the police who investigated the alleged gang-rape and Mike Nifong, the district attorney in charge of the flimsy case.
There wasn’t much new information in last night’s “60 Minutes” segment, which featured “second stripper” and embezzler Kim Roberts and indicted-for-rape Duke lacrosse players David Evans, Reade Seligmann, and Collin Finnerty. For instance, the “big” news is that Roberts contradicted the stripper-accuser’s story, but we’ve known for months there were multiple versions floating around.
Here’s what was new to me:
1) Two weeks after she supposedly was raped and sodomized, the stripper-accuser was taking off her clothes again for money. But I guess she had to eat and feed her children. Poor, oppressed stripper!
2) A Duke law professor named James Coleman (where has he been???) said the same thing about DA Mike Nifong that I’ve been saying since April. Confident that the stripper-accuser’s gang-rape fantasy was real and certain that DNA would prove it, Nifong had to indict somebody, although the DNA results connected ZERO white lacrosse players to the stripper-accuser. Instead, the DNA found inside her belonged to her black “boyfriend.” Oops!
Coleman, who I wished had spoken up sooner, said what people of average intelligence already knew: the photo identification process violated standard police procedure, local, state, and federal guidelines. The photo array was comprised of Duke lacrosse players and no fillers (non-lacrosse players). All the stripper-accuser had to do was point to three white faces.
And ruin three lives.
As Nifong’s case collapsed, he came up with alternative theories about condom use. The stripper-accuser said no one used a condom during the alleged gang-rape and that somebody ejaculated inside her. Yet, to account for the embarrassing DNA results, Nifong continued to contradict his own witness!
What an utter doofus.
The stripper-accuser’s luck is as rotten as it can get. Not only did she make up a gang-rape story, she happened to blame it on the three people least likely to have done it! Seligmann has an alibi supported by a paper trail. He says he tried to tell the police and Nifong about it, but they refused to talk to him. Finnerty says he also has a provable alibi. Evans and the other two say they did nothing wrong. They weren’t even among the group that called Roberts a “nigger.” Seligmann says he didn’t say it and won’t accept responsibility for others saying it.
By the way, Roberts started the whole verbal exchange by calling one or more players “small dick white boy(s).” She whined, “They could have said anything else. They could have said ‘black’ but they said ‘nigger.’”
That’s a lot of nerve. Hitting below the belt and questioning a man’s physical endowments, a very sensitive area to begin with, and Roberts is surprised the “white boys” retaliated and called her a nigger?
All in all, I’m glad the indicted men decided to go on national TV. I have problems with the left-leaning legacy media show, but they came down squarely on the side of fairness. Best of all, “60 Minutes” acknowledged that Nifong played up the race angle and pandered to blacks. I gagged once or twice as Bradley kept referring to the strippers as “dancers,†but I got it under control eventually.
Wherever the false accuser is, I hope her conscience is eating her alive. Until she rectifies this mess, which means coming forward and confessing she made up the whole thing, and apologizing to Evans, Seligmann, and Finnerty, I hope she never has a moment’s peace. I hope her lies are taking a toll on her health. I hope the damage she’s doing to innocent lives causes tenfold damage to her own.
If anyone out there still believes David Evans, Reade Seligmann, or Collin Finnerty raped a black stripper on March 13, 2006, you’re willfully deaf and blind.
And stupid.
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Previous posts: I’ve been blogging about this case since April. If you’re a new reader, browse at least a few of the 25 posts in the Duke Rape Case category before you comment.
Quick links: Nifong regrets early statements to the media; echos of Scottsboro; Nifong goes after bloggers; one damning motion after another; journalist calls lacrosse women ignorant for supporting the men; 1,300-discovery bolsters the defense; Duke president Richard Brodhead commissions a biased panel to issue a report; and Tawana Brawley redux.
Duke bloggers: John in Carolina, The Johnsville News, Lie Stoppers, Durham-in-Wonderland, Crystal Mess…
Other sources:
La Shawn, the scary thing is even after viewing this show there are still folks (who were quoted in the Herald Sun/ Durham) who opine that because it is a rape accusation, the accuser deserves her day in court, no matter what any evidence shows. That should be very frightening for the men of this country.
Comment by Belle — 10.16.06 @ 8:20 am
60 Minutes On The Duke Lacrosse Rape Case
Now, CBS News and 60 Minutes have taken quite a bit of heat in the Right-O-Sphere for their Left leaning tendencies and, more specifically, Rathergate, but, putting all that aside, they did a fantastic job with their piece last night on the Duke Lacros…
Trackback by Pirate's Cove — 10.16.06 @ 8:37 am
When you add up all the ridiculous features of this story, the mind reels. Kim was not even asked to make a photo ID until AFTER the indictments had been made! (Really difficult then to know who to pick, I guess…)
The AV identifed FOUR men in the final photo ID, not three. Ergo, she must have been alleging (in her final version) that FOUR men assaulted her. Earlier it was two, or three, or twenty, or none–and the names were Adam, Matt, and Brett.
Nifong has spun like a top about date rape drugs, condoms, DNA, etc.
While I salute Ed Bradley (who may prove to be the Judge Horton of this version of Scottsboro II), I have to wonder where the rest of the media has been.
Comment by Seahawk — 10.16.06 @ 8:45 am
The lack of good “town gown” relations between Duke and Durham seems more and more apparent.
Where are Brodhead, Chemensky, etc.?
At the least it seems they should be calling for voter registration and for a study of the Durham PD, DA’s office, judiciary and town gown legal relations.
This should have worked itself out by now.
Who will want to send their 18-23 year old to a place with a judiciary, DA’s office, electorate, and city PD that is bigoted against the college’s students and irrational about dropping flaky cases?
Mistakes are not always avoidable, but Durham needs to learn from its mistakes - the absence of any dynamic ability to learn and adjust within the Durham judiiary, DA’s office, black community, and PD is disheartening.
Year off campus programs are having a record year at Duke - is it any wonder?
Nifong and his apologists are perhaps the greatest recruiting tools for U Penn, Wash U, Brown, Northwestern, etc.
Comment by cfw — 10.16.06 @ 8:49 am
Coleman, who I wished had spoken up sooner
He did speak up sooner because I remember reading about him somewhere, earlier.
But here’s my thing: Tulia, TX. When Blacks were wrongly accused of being dealers, where were the conservative media then?
Greg Kane, a Black conservative writer, was and is right to point out the injustice of the Duke case, but the silence on the Tulia, TX case. Both were cases of judicial misconduct, but the case of the white college students made news while Tulia didn’t for a long time.
Comment by DarkStar — 10.16.06 @ 9:15 am
Essentially what happened here, as La Shawn Barber notes in her lengthy piece on the case, is District Attorney Mike Nifong - the prosecutor - pandered to black people and played up the race card for all it was worth. Why? Because he was playing politics, that’s why. He wanted to get re-elected.
Pingback by Sister Toldjah — 10.16.06 @ 9:24 am
Why doesn’t somebody in the AG’s office, or the US District atty put a stop to this ? Everybody can see that this ‘doofus’ Nifong is in way over his head. All he ever wanted was to get re-elected. Now the whole thing has snowballed on him and I don’t think he has any clue where this is going to end. I can see, on the horizon, multiple,large and very expensive lawsuits against the county and the state. Why doesn’t somebody put this guy out of his misery?
Comment by Tim Smith — 10.16.06 @ 9:59 am
#5 Darkstar
I read about that. That was terrible and some of those folks rotted in prison for a few years. This makes the Duke case seem mild:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/60minutes/main575291.shtml
Comment by Shade — 10.16.06 @ 10:03 am
LaShawn,
The dancing video was great, also they mentioned the flexial(sp) drug she was taking, something the MSM had never mentioned before. This is the first time we’ve seen some of the defense photo’s of Crystal passed out already with wounds from another night. Why no mention of the private dance with the sex toys before the Duke outing? or the seman in her from her pimp?
ABC has a post up from Crystal’s cousin saying CBS was intimating Crystal. I think this is the same cousin that said Dukies were trying to pay her off to drop the case. Why does the MSM let these nut cases on TV?
Broadhead? Looked like the Yankee fool he is. Sorry for the bash, but did anyone else think he looked a little “gay”? What a pompus A**. He won’t make it very long, the long knives are out.
We’ll see if Newsweek does a follow up cover story, don’t hold your breath.
Also, note that Finnery won’t give out his alibi? After the taxi driver WAS intimitated, he knows to keep his power dry. Nifung is Toast.
We need some follow up to keep the pressure on Nifungu before the election.
Comment by kempermanx — 10.16.06 @ 10:10 am
#3Â Seahawk asks: I have to wonder where the rest of the media has been?
When the weight and momentum of this train wreck of a case is finally inescapable, the main stream media will rush in and battle among themselves over who “uncovered” the truth. For whatever reason, 60 Minutes has finally decided that it is safe to suggest the truth.
Comment by Heliotrope — 10.16.06 @ 10:38 am
I don’t know if MSM mentioned the muscle relaxer Flexeril before, but I remember reading about it in a defense motion: http://www.wral.com/download/2006/0609/9346930.pdf
I wrote about the motion and the stripper-accuser’s contradictory statements here.
Comment by La Shawn — 10.16.06 @ 10:49 am
60 Minutes did continue to feed one misconception: That all Duke students are the product of wealthy families. How does that justify ruining the lives of three INNOCENT young men?
The left’s class envy nonsense could end up decimating three otherwise worthwhile young lives! And this is right, how?
I was happy to see the attention paid to the Duke investigation led by a black law school professor. Why has this not been better publicized? And how has Duke JUSTIFIED its actions vis-a-vis the entire lacrosse team before any charges of any kind were filed and before any investigation had been conducted to determine whether or not “Precious” was making false charges (which I think we can all agree is the case).
I would send a child of mine ANYWHERE but Duke, given the guilty-until-proven-innocent mindset displayed by the Duke Administration! But of gutless weinies.
Comment by Gayle Miller — 10.16.06 @ 10:51 am
Great entry, LaShawn. I do wish that women who lie about being raped could be charged with a crime, or at least sued by the wrongly accused. I think it used to be rare for a woman to lie about rape, but now it seems to be happening more frequently and genuine rape victims suffer when ho skanks cry wolf.
If this Roberts chick doesn’t change careers soon, then she may find herself in a real gang rape situation. But who will believe her then?
Something she should think about.
Comment by Batyah — 10.16.06 @ 11:29 am
Nifong is the single most guilty person in this whole travesty. He orchestrated a media blitz even before the Duke guys were charged with a crime…time and time again he shot his mouth off about the guilt of the Duke La Crosse players. He made himself a household word and won a political nomination on the backs of three innocent victims and the entire Duke LaCrosse team. He rigged the photo line-up. He withheld information from the discovery process and apparently violated the laws of prosecutorial conduct. He caused racial tensions within the community and beyond, he severely damaged the reputation of Duke University and made a mockery of the judical and political systems.
Believe me I have no love lost for the accuser or for the spineless Duke administration, but I hope Nifong pays for his despicable actions for the rest of his life.
Comment by dianne — 10.16.06 @ 11:47 am
La Shawn Barber On Duke Rape Hoax
Okay, her post title has to be the best I’ve ever read on this issue: Duke Rape Case: Skanks, Greed, and Shattered Lives. Read it. More here: Duke Rape Hoax III Duke Rape Hoax II Duke Rape Hoax
Trackback by Sensible Mom — 10.16.06 @ 11:49 am
La Shawn,
New commentator here. Regarding Duke U. law professor James Coleman:
1) Coleman wrote a very Nifong critical N&O letter to the editor (calling for an appointment of a special prosecutor) here:
http://www.newsobserver.com/580/story/449892.html
2) KC Johnson has blogged several times regarding the thoughts, positions and comments of professor Coleman here and elsewhere at Durham-In-Wonderland:
http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/2006/07/north-carolina-norms.html
All of La Shawn’s readers, KC Johnson’s Durham-In-Wonderland, LieStoppers, and the John-in-Carolina blogs are must reads for a full understanding of the Duke Hoax.
ME
Comment by ME — 10.16.06 @ 12:27 pm
“the injustice of the Duke case, but the silence on the Tulia, TX case. ”
I would not call being on 60 Minutes, Tulia that is, “silence.” I saw it on TV and elsewhere, but Shade provided the link to 60 Minutes below.
But I agree that the unpleasantness that the three boys are suffering, not even in prison, is not the worst that happens in life.
Perhaps it was that the Tulia story was half plausible, and took a while to uncover instead of being racially motivated.
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“Wherever the false accuser is, I hope her conscience is eating her alive. Until she rectifies this mess, which means coming forward and confessing she made up the whole thing,â€
IMHO, it’s a fair chance that the AV was so out of it, as shown in the 60 Minutes pics of her on floor and Kim’s description, that the AV has no idea what really happened that night. It was the admitting clerk at the mental ward that put the rape idea in her head “Were you raped?†and the police/Nivong most likely pressured her telling her what they think happened.
I don’t think it’s fair to pick on the delusional insane.
Comment by UNK — 10.16.06 @ 12:31 pm
Duke Rape Case–Falling Apart:
La Shawn Barber has an extensive update of the nationally-publicized case featuring last night’s episode of 60 Minutes with interviews from Kim Roberts (the second stripper) and the three accused rapists. Roberts, the primary witness in the case, is n…
Trackback by Pajamas Media — 10.16.06 @ 12:36 pm
Thanks for the excellent article LaShawn. I watched the 60 minutes thing and had the following observations:
1. As an old Christian white guy, if the team had not been drinking and hired strippers none of this wouldn’t have happened. I don’t drink or the other thing (and I’m too old and married to appreciate this if I did) so its easy for me to say…
2. The episode could be called the child of Twanna Brawley. I had relatives that lived in that area of New York and it was a relatively wealthy white area and a black woman who was apparently traumatized then it becomes a launching point for many people who used it for their benefit.
3. If this were 1900 - 1930 the players would have been black men and the accuser would have been a white woman (or relatives) and lynching often happened.
Comment by Drake Steel — 10.16.06 @ 12:57 pm
“As an old Christian white guy, if the team had not been drinking and hired strippers none of this wouldn’t have happened. ”
True but can’t blame the victim – even if the victim unwisely engages in high-risk activity such as:
If she was not a stripper, she would not have groped and sexually assaulted……
If she were not talking to strangers on the street in Vermont after the bars closed, she would not be dead.
Comment by UNK — 10.16.06 @ 1:27 pm
The odd thing is that the black community has come to the rescue of Nifong. Do they condone the mistreatment and injustice against the accused? How many times have young black men been railroaded this way?
Comment by roux — 10.16.06 @ 3:58 pm
Tulia was racially motivated and the “cocaine” was wall board shavings.
Some of the accused had iron clad alibis.
The guy making the allegations had been released for misconduct in another venue.
Comment by M. Simon — 10.16.06 @ 4:02 pm
UNK, The Book of Proverbs would seem to disagree, that you can’t blame the victim. The victim usually is one that was lacking in wisdom:
The Evil lie in wait to shed innocent blood, the Fool rushes in ‘where angels fear to tread’, or at least are naively drawn into dangerous, life-ending situations.
Pick a page, any page and you’re bound to find either the Duke case, and/or the tragedy of the Vermont student covered. Chp 2 is but one that covers both quite succiently.
Bottomline, if either had harkened to Wisdom, we wouldn’t be reading & discussing them today.
Comment by Andy — 10.16.06 @ 4:16 pm
I no longer am willing to accept an “excuse” defense for Precious. This has gone on long enough that even her feeble little mind must have managed to pick through the fog to what really happened. The point here is - IF NOTHING HAPPENED to her on that night (and it’s fairly clear that nothing did), WHY ARE THREE INNOCENT YOUNG MEN BEING PERSECUTED. I don’t give a rat’s eardrum what color they are, how much money their parents do or do not have. NONE OF THAT is important - the truth is what is important and as the months go by and this case is analyzed by people whose opinions I respect (like La Shawn and attorneys for whom I personally work), it becomes quite clear that there are definite victims here but Precious isn’t one of them. I believe the victims here are Reade, Seligman and Evans!
And of course, when inevitably either the charges are dropped or the young men are acquitted, their families have the right to sue for recovery of the legal costs.
It is clear that Precious has no pockets at all, but I certainly do hope that the parents sue Nifong both as prosecutor and personally (for his prosecutorial misconduct), as well as the City of Durham and the University. They are all complicit in an absolutely disgusting travesty.
Comment by Gayle Miller — 10.16.06 @ 4:43 pm
LaShawn, I have news for you. “60 Minutes” has been presenting the facts to the American public, more or less consistently, for decades. This time, they just didn’t happen to step on your political toes.
Comment by Jim Houghton — 10.16.06 @ 4:52 pm
Case in point: the interview with David Kuo that followed the Duke coverage. Did you see how hard Lesley Stahl tried to keep it even-handed, get him to acknowledge that money had been spent, that promises aren’t always kept, that 9/11 changed things and hamstrung the Bush administration’s Faith-Based Initiatives? She really tried, just like she was SUPPOSED to. But the picture that came through was the truth, and that is that Bush and his people mocked, insulted and used people of good faith and people of Faith for their own sleazy political ends. You really can’t lay that one on lefty journalism.
Comment by Jim Houghton — 10.16.06 @ 4:58 pm
Jim, like the facts presented in Mike Wallace’s interview with Iran’s fearless leaders, or their interview with ‘SoDamn Insane’?
As for Dan Blather, what has political toes got to do with the facts? That tho the documents were forged, the truth still lies within them?
Comment by Andy — 10.16.06 @ 5:00 pm
Nice job LaShawn.
BTW, I might say the same (willfully deaf and blind) about those who don’t think the Iraq War is about oil (and war profiteering, of course).
Comment by Robert — 10.16.06 @ 5:18 pm
Wow. I knew this case was weak, but I did not realize how weak. It was off my radar. I give Ed Bradley and Sixty Minutes credit for reporting this story correctly and then making a fair conclusion.
It reminds me of when American Justice looked objectively at the Jon Bennet case and concluded that the Boulder P.D. and Prosecutor’s theory would not hold up either. The only difference is the Boulder Police were mostly incompetent and there was at least enough evidence to seriously consider the parents culpable–Nifong’s disgraceful behavior is willful, he has refused to even consider exculpatory evidence, this is looking like a horrible miscarriage of justice. I hope he ends up answering to the North Carolina Bar Association.
Comment by Joe — 10.16.06 @ 5:21 pm
Robert,
I can see your point, IF, it was all about the oil and nothing but the oil. But it wasn’t and isn’t. On the other hand, for France, German & Russia, it was all about the oil and monetizing their investment in Saddam.
Did you have a particular war profiteer in mind? Surely Halliburton wasn’t the biggest.
Comment by Andy — 10.16.06 @ 5:32 pm
To cfw – Brodhead and the Duke administrators are scrambling all over themselves to bend over for town-gown relations, with Nifong, the PD and NCCU. Not a critical word about Nifong or Durham’s ‘standards of justice’ in this case has been said by any Duke administrator. No one from Duke has strongly stated the 3 players are ‘Innocent Until Proven Guilty’ and ‘stop your reverse racist assumptions’. Professor James Coleman, a Duke Law faculty member, appears to be the only visible conscience among Duke leadership. He is a standout example of integrity, and a welcome voice.
I wonder if the local Durham jealousy and reverse racism prior to this case made it impossible to have good town-gown relations. I don’t live in Durham, so I haven’t heard the grievances beyond the stereotype of ‘rich, privileged, white, aloof, arrogant, uncaring’. No doubt there are individuals who helped to perpetuate that stereotype, but in the balance Duke University adds far more positives than negatives to Durham – a point I don’t think is arguable, Trinity Park resident notwithstanding.
As a Duke parent, I unfortunately agree with you about the diminishment of Duke’s status. Being connected with Duke has now been cheapened, by the posture taken, lack of courage and leadership by Brodhead and other Duke illuminati. The faculty - the Group of 88 - are an embarrassment to everyone but a small, er, minority.
Comment by TombZ — 10.16.06 @ 5:36 pm
“Tulia was racially motivated and the “cocaine†was wall board shavings.”
To clarify, I was offering an opinion on the media coverage of Tulia not being racially motivated, not on the jurors’ actions.
On one hand I doubt that there were forty some and a handful of white dealers in a small town worthy of felony time in a small town, I would not believe that none of the accused never saw an illegal substance either - that it was all wall board shavings as you imply.
Without proper supervision, ambitious undercover cops will turn everyday drug users into “dealers†by saying “Here is $50, buy some drugs for me and keep half for yourselfâ€
In addition to entrapment, even if you believe in the war on drugs, it’s a waste of resources treating addicts like dealers.
Happens to white bartenders and white college boys fairly often - maybe not as much as blacks, but that’s a different question.
Comment by UNK — 10.16.06 @ 5:43 pm
Once upon a time, 60 Minutes wasn’t a left wing tool dedicated to defeating Republicans and excusing dictators. Sure Don Hewitt’s politics run left of center, but early on the show actually did address hypocrisies, including in the criminal justice system. This is the kind of piece that made 60 Minutes into the influential show it has become.
It isn’t George Bush that is creating a police state in this country. It’s the local police departments and prosecutors that are abusing the criminal justice system. Look at Cory Mayes and all the other cases:
http://www.theagitator.com/archives/cat_paramilitary_police_raids.php
That’s the one area where I think the American conservative community is almost willfully blind in the one area where the state has the most impact on your freedom. I’m hardly a lefty, and while I have basically libertarian views, I think most hardcore libertarians are nutcases, but outside of the libertarian wing of the conservative movement, most conservatives are willing to give cops and DAs a free pass. Thirty percent of cops would work for the worst dictators in human history just to wear a badge and a gun and push people around.
The rabbis of the Mishnah taught that without the government, men would eat each other alive. We need police officers and a prosecutorial court system. But those operating the system must act beyond reproach.
Part of the problem is that no police officer will ever admit to a civilian that anything they do is wrong, even for the most petty stuff. They will openly admit to petty corruption (professional courtesy for other officers on police stops, free coffee and donuts from shops, routine violation of traffic laws for no emergency purpose) and act like it’s a legitimate perk of the job. For the more serious abuses like false accusations they close ranks even tighter.
The old saw that a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged has a correlary: a libertarian is a conservative who has been arrested.
Comment by Bozoer Rebbe — 10.16.06 @ 5:43 pm
And as long as we are on the blame the victim roll, why don’t we just blame anyone who smoked some weed with friends, who got entrapped, talked into making a delivery, or was just in the room during a drug by, for being thrown in jail for a few years as a major dealer.
And my favorite, don’t wear minskirts, damm rapists ruining the view for the rest of us less lookist, sexist men
Comment by UNK — 10.16.06 @ 5:46 pm
LaShawn, I may be greatly mistaken but I truly believe a perhaps unexplored component of this whole story is the fact that prosecutor Nifong is a native of North Carolina, received an undergraduate degree from the University of North Carolina and a law degree from there as well (I believe).
The intense bias in North Carolina against Duke University and Duke students is remarkable to see and should not be discounted. Before this case, I had supposed this was limited to athletic competition but now I’m not so sure. I have lived in that state before and I have friends from North Carolina: trust me when I tell you, this is quite possibly a very real factor.
Comment by RattlerGator — 10.16.06 @ 5:49 pm
To Darkstar-
The Duke Hoax has the ‘advantage’ of happening 7 years after Tulia. Bloggers and readers have the benefit of timeliness, urgency and technology, combining to respond quickly to events and build momentum in making a case for injustice. After this case is over we should again note and celebrate the benefit of transparency afforded by the Internet, hyperlinks, blogging software, all used by tireless authors and critics who keep the content coming. If we didn’t have these technologies available to us, the three players would probably be convicted and the facts of the case irrelevant to justice in Durham.
We can hope, as with continually improving DNA and other forensic technology, growing numbers of interested and interesting parties can debunk myth and fiction, and hold the legacy media (and academics?) accountable to better standards than ratings or private political agendas.
Comment by TombZ — 10.16.06 @ 5:50 pm
Robert-
Your post is a completely meaningless non-sequiter to this discussion, and not worth debating on its own.
Good luck with your future endeavors in another position.
Comment by TombZ — 10.16.06 @ 5:54 pm
Andy,
What was it about besides the oil? (Thanks for admitting oil played a role. That’s one down, and the rest of the US citizenry to go.)
Halliburton, Carlyle Group, Bechtel. There’s plenty of $$ for the profiteers (including $9B unaccounted for).
The funny thing is the way Richard Clarke (the lifetime Republican) had his concerns dismissed because he was writing a book.
As if we could never listen to the words of someone with a financial stake in the debate…
Except the guys who pushed for the war.
Comment by Robert — 10.16.06 @ 5:59 pm
Unfortunately, I don’t think Ms. Roberts will lose a minute’s sleep over this whole affair, unless she gets prosecuted for perjury and filing false charges. I think she’s just an opportunist who got into a name-calling catfight with fraternity boys, and thought she saw a way to make some money for herself.
Mike Nifong is pretty much the same kettle of fish, only colder. He’s played the whole thing solely for political gain. I hope he loses everything over this. That would be justice.
Comment by Rebecca H. — 10.16.06 @ 6:15 pm
60 Minutes not biased? Did you hear Andy Rooney at the end of the show?
Nukes ok for everyone, don’t pick on North Korea. We should never fight any wars and give our nukes up. We should have declared War on NK first before Iraq. Depsite that meaning a war with China. He is all over the board trying to manipulate his audience with his mean thought.
If you are black in live in Durham you should fear Nifong. He is setting a standard for ethical behavior in his office. It’s his type of methodology that caused the problems in texas. A public servant willing to manipulate evidence and railroad innocent people. Once the Duke uproar dies down Nifong is going to apply the same tactic to black defendants that he doesn’t like. He is sorta above the law.
Comment by Jd — 10.16.06 @ 6:40 pm
Well it should not matter, but the whole case has been about race. No way even if it did not happen should these “white boys” get off simply because of what might have happened to some ( by no means all either ) of Durham’s resident’s grandparents or great grandparents.
So I was personally encouraged that Ed Bradley a black man and James Coleman a black professor at Duke put a major hit on the integrity of Nifong. It was the most telling of the whole piece. Who knows if anyone in Durham’s community was watching, but if they did they must have grown sick. How might this DA of so little integrity treat an accused poor black man? Anyone think it might be fairer? Not likely from where I sit.
Comment by gmax — 10.16.06 @ 6:49 pm
Hey Guys, Kim Roberts is the OTHER dancer. The one who says “Precious” is full of crap.
Thank you, LaShawn, nice piece.
Jim and Bozoer,
I learned my critical thinking skills as a teenager in the 60s by watching 60 Minutes. My best friend’s philosophy-major brother would deconstruct their evidence and usually find the truth somewhere in what they didn’t say. We would ask ourselves why they didn’t ask obvious follow-up questions. What would have been an answer they didn’t want to show? We could almost always find conclusions that fit all the evidence they presented that contradicted their conclusions. 60 minutes has given me a lifelong interest in spin for political purposes. I never take their segments at face value.
Comment by Christy — 10.16.06 @ 6:52 pm
#33 Bozoer Rebbe sets an impossible standard when he notes: “The rabbis of the Mishnah taught that without the government, men would eat each other alive. We need police officers and a prosecutorial court system. But those operating the system must act beyond reproach.”
Cops have come a long, long way since I was a kid in the 1940’s. Back then, the badge came with a “billy club” and a “thumping” was a lesson in civil disobedience you did not soon forget.
Today, cops are expected to be as clever as the lawyers who oppose them, as practiced in human nature as a psychiatrist, as thoughtful and caring as a missionary and, of course, to be above reproach.
Well, let him who is without having made treaties to accommodate his own comfort, cast the first denigrating charge.
I don’t support corruption, over-kill, or abuse of power. But, honestly, where are cops supposed to come from? And as long as DA’s are elected, how can you keep them from acting like politicians?
Juvenal posed the question in Latin: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? “Who guards the guards?” or as Plato asked in the Republic: “”Who watches the watchmen?”
The answer in modern America is, the voters. Liberals have decided that the cops can’t bug the phone calls between terrorists. Liberals have equated the failures of Abu Gharib with Gitmo. Liberals decided that if “the glove doesn’t fit, you must acquit.” Liberals extend the Geneva Conventions to terrorists. Liberals are cold on Monica and Barney Franks and hot for Foley.
Certainly conservatives are sometimes guilty of going along, when they should have been aggressive. In retrospect, the conservatives should have forced Roosevelt to face Nazism and the slaughter of the Jews sooner and they should have fought harder to keep Roosevelt from locking up the Americans of Japanese origin.
The balance of power between the police power of the state and the citizens of the state is an enduring legacy. If the cops are to be above reproach, what about those who write the laws and those who elect the politicians who write the laws?
As Pogo said: “We have met the enemy and he is ‘us’!”
Comment by Heliotrope — 10.16.06 @ 7:06 pm
Christy -
Yeah, I used to work on my critical thinking skills in the 60’s with whatever philosophy major was around, because they usually had the best weed. We would sit around deconstructing everything from 60 Minutes to the Three Stooges. We found all kinds of hidden messages, too. So, what’s your point?
Comment by Jim Houghton — 10.16.06 @ 7:20 pm
Tombz (31) -
It would impress me if Duke set up a commission to look at town gown relations, focused on the PD, the DA, the judiciary and the electorate. How many of the 6000 undergrads are registered to vote in NC? If they are not all registered, for whatever party, why not?
Good town gown relations means investing politically in the town, which means registering to vote, voting, etc. If Brodhead gave out that message, and suggested to each new or returning student that they register and vote in Durham (and by absentee ballot when studying off campus) I would feel better about the sophistication of Duke as it relates to TG relations.
UNC has a leg up since its students are largely from NC, I gather, and the judiciary, PD, DA and electorate treat the students as voters or future voters in NC. Duke needs to become and equally North Carolinian political entity.
Make it easy for the students to register and vote - put a memo and registration materisla in the welcome to Duke packet.
Send out absentee ballots to folks like my daughter who is studying at Duke in NY.
Set up polling places on campus (if this is not done yet).
Survey the studnets and faculty and staff on a regular basis about the local issues (including police, DA, judiciary, electorate).
Then folks like Nifong can and will correct mistakes, and hopefully make less mistakes.
If Duke does not get the TG relations improving, it does not look likely to get back up to its #4 position on the USNWR rating. In fact, it could slip further from #8 or so to say #12.
Apathy about politics at the student level will not do, if Duke is to progress in the TG relations area. Maybe Gutentag in the admissions oiffice needs to recruit a few more political organizers.
Comment by cfw — 10.16.06 @ 7:24 pm
Guilty of being white jerks
LaShawn has been hot on the Duke Phony Rape Case since the beginning. It smelled, from the beginning. But the 60 Minutes segment (which I missed - I do not watch much - or any -Â TV) put the nail in the coffin of this canard. But we know politics: "C
Trackback by Maggie's Farm — 10.16.06 @ 7:27 pm
Jakki is back
‘They Want Her to Break,’ Accuser’s Cousin Tells ABC News
http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=2571253
now Kim is the opportunist
“She said that Roberts “has shown time and time again that she wants to make money” from her involvement in the case. ”
while her truthful cousin has to strip “to survive”
Comment by UNK — 10.16.06 @ 7:53 pm
Nifong makes the Boulder DA look like one of the greater legal minds on the 21st century by comparison.
I hope that he is disbarred.
It’s sad to see a junkie stripper ruin the lives of these 3 young men.
Comment by molonlabe28 — 10.16.06 @ 8:07 pm
Hey Darkstar/Shade,
And where has the liberal media been on Tulia? Dont see it anywhere on CNN or MSNBC (olbermann where r u) or CBS News or ABC News, all fairly liberal media outlets?
And lets ask ourselves this now after yesterdays show? If the 3 accused were black and the accuser was white, what level of outrage could we expect from the Jacksons and Sharptons of the world, based on those flimsy facts? Do you think a black DA would pander to the white community to get those boys?
Ha this case is such a joke on numerous levels, but the biggest joke is the insane racial double-standard it promulgates. If Nifong spent as much energy prosecuting black-nlack crimes he wouldnt need to pander so badly as this.
Does he not realize the level of lawsuits coming down on the county and state once the judge finally laughs this out of court?
Comment by e_alex — 10.16.06 @ 8:10 pm
Christy, no question, Hewitt, Rather, Wallace et all created their own version of spin. They almost invented the gotcha interview. And your point about lack of followup questions is one of their major failings - shared by most of the MSM.
That’s what’s valuable about the net and blogs. All of us can ask followup questions.
Comment by Bozoer Rebbe — 10.16.06 @ 8:41 pm
heliotrope,
People are people and there will always be self interest and personal misdeeds, but what’s wrong with wanting ethical cops and politicians? I just want the people in charge to follow the rules.
Comment by Bozoer Rebbe — 10.16.06 @ 9:00 pm
Bozoer:
Television is a time-limited medium. Even on the Nightly News, where interviews are usually more in-depth than just about anywhere on TV, there comes a point where someone says, “We’re out of time,” and someone’s follow-up question doesn’t get answered. Sixty Minutes is network, and they don’t stay on the air if they don’t move along, entertain. I think they’re much more to be commended for the issues they BRING UP. Not always, by a long shot, but who else in TV-land, over the years and consistently, has — if not spoken truth to Power at least asked it to explain itself — has revealed quackery, illegality, dishonesty, political nonsense, general bullshit and touchy matters of interest, than Sixty Minutes? Not too many of ‘em out there in commercial TV. So let’s show a little gratitude instead of complaining that they didn’t ask enough questions.
Comment by Jim Houghton — 10.16.06 @ 9:16 pm
Maybe after 5 o clock the posts get a little goofy. Rattlegator, I went to state, and my wife went to UNC-CH and by son is at Duke. This is not about some sick rivally. It is about a sick person. Nifungu, went to New Hanover high (wilimington, NC), he was a dork there, I know people who were there with him, he was the class loser when he was 17. This guy is a LOSER. He is 50 somthing and he was still doing trafic tickets, this is his hope to BE somebody. He’ll be somebody. The first DA disbarred and federally indicted for civil rights violations. He can not get out now. It is so sad, a fish out of water, or over his head. Someone smart would look at this and say holy shit I have really f***** up I better cut my loses, but he can not until November 7th, election day. About December he will be indicted and disbarrment proceeding will start. So as Christains we show pray for this fool cause he’s going to jail. Just the facts. I hope his new wife Bubba is kind to him.
Comment by kempermanx — 10.16.06 @ 9:36 pm
Take it back, I hope Bubba abusing the hell out of him.
Comment by kempermanx — 10.16.06 @ 9:38 pm
#35 - RattlerGator: “The intense bias in North Carolina against Duke University and Duke students is remarkable to see and should not be discounted. Before this case, I had supposed this was limited to athletic competition but now I’m not so sure. … [T]his is quite possibly a very real factor.”
Aw, gimme a break, RatGat. A Carolina-Dook rivalry, whether athletic or otherwise, has nothing to do with whatever the heck is motivating Mr. Nifong. I hate it that, like me, Mr. Nifong has a long-time connection as a Wilmington, NC resident and also has his undergrad degree from Carolina. But I see nothing in this case that leads me to believe it’s Duke hatred from within his soul that motivates Mr. Nifong.
The “It’s Politics” theory carries a lot more water than your college connection theory. The “Race/Class/Privilege” triangle beats the college connection theory, as well.
Anyway, if Nifong was so motivated as you suggest, he coulda’ gone after three of Coach K’s boys and there would have been far more of a chance of future wins in the Dean Dome and in Cameron Indoor. Heh. Ain’t that right, Kemp?
Comment by TaterCon — 10.16.06 @ 9:45 pm
I’m almost sixty now and this reminds me of the news reports coming out of Alabama and Mississippi in the early ’60s only with the identies of the players reversed.
Racist police and prosecutors using perjured testimony and faked evidence to charge innocent (ethnic) boys with the assault and rape of a(opposite ethnic) woman.
This is exactly the kind of story that newspapers were given their extraordinary protections under the First Amendment to cover. Only now the newspapers are in cahoots with the corrupt officials and it’s up to the new inheritors of freedom of the press, blogers, to cover the story.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
otpu
Comment by otpu — 10.16.06 @ 10:46 pm
#17 said, “IMHO, it’s a fair chance that the AV was so out of it, as shown in the 60 Minutes pics of her on floor and Kim’s description, that the AV has no idea what really happened that night. It was the admitting clerk at the mental ward that put the rape idea in her head “Were you raped?†and the police/Nivong most likely pressured her telling her what they think happened.”
This is probably true and buries Nifong even deeper because he is guilty of giving AV a story. Get her on a witness stand and have her say, “I don’t remember being raped” and it’s all over. There is NO medical or DNA evidence and no witnesses.
To the poster who said there should be something done to those who falsely cry “rape,” there is plenty to be done. Filing a false report can and will be charged. In fact, Nifong better hope that AV does, indeed, admit she wasn’t raped instead of testifying that that Nifong and the PD encouraged her to say it and gave her the story!
To #41 - absolutely correct that this case has always been one of reverse racism. No one will talk about that, but Bradley did a fine job of asking Kim Roberts if the “small dick white boy” comment could have been what provoked the “nigger” response. Since white people are the last group that can be identified by color without it considered a racial slur or “insensitive,” think about the derogatory nature of Kim’s comment. “White boy” IS A RACIAL SLUR…but that doesn’t count cuz it’s only white people being slurred and they don’t count, now do they? Bradly clearly knew this angle of the story and the ONLY thing he did not do is come out and SAY it.
Nifong is hoping for a hung jury, the best he can do, then he’ll decline to retry. The stigma will always be on these boys, and the black community gets its pariah and can continue to have its cake and eat it too.
And La Shawn, you are being too naive with the use of “former” regarding the defender of the strippers and her comments. Kim Roberts must now be discredited so that her failure to corroborate the AV’s story is all about money. This is ALL defenders of Nifong and the AV can do, now. This person hasn’t changed her mind, but is making the case that Kim is not a reliable witness.
Comment by Twaddlefree — 10.16.06 @ 10:46 pm
60 Minutes has been fudging the truth for decades. My uncle was interviewed by Mike Wallace for 45 minutes. He laid out a list of people who a particular criminal had killed while in jail, as well as other crimes such as selling drugs, and how his attorney (famous and now dead) brought drugs into jail to this criminal.
Mike Wallace asked how this criminal was at his job, wasing pots and pans. “He’s ok, but he misses spots.” was the answer. 60 minutes edited out the “but he misses spots” and represented my uncle’s testimony as unaltered praise.
If 60 minutes is now telling the truth, I am glad to hear it. There are truths that need to be told.
Comment by DonMeaker — 10.16.06 @ 10:56 pm
Great words from AA sports commentator Jason Whitlock –
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/15774974.htm
McClatchy Newspapers
I’ve said this before, but it’s worth saying again: Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton should be in Durham, N.C., today, promising civil disobedience until the charges are dropped and prosecutor Mike Nifong resigns.
(snip)
Speaking out in support of the wealthy Duke players enhances our credibility when we claim that someone poor and black is being treated unfairly. Poor people need that credibility because they can’t afford to make bail, let alone a team of high-priced attorneys.
By remaining silent about this obvious miscarriage of justice, black leadership looks as racist and cowardly as it paints white people who ignore obvious mistreatment of blacks.
You follow?
Standing up for Seligmann, Finnerty and Evans would be standing up against injustice, and what we’re learning is that injustice recognizes opportunity more than color. In America, there is more opportunity for injustice to visit poor people of color. Their best defense is standing against all injustice, regardless of race
Comment by Seahawk — 10.17.06 @ 12:29 am
If Nifong has done this to ruin Duke and bring down their reputation, he has succeeded. As a parent, I would never let any of my children apply to Duke. No parent would put their children in a position to have their lives ruined like the three young men at Duke. I can’t even begin to imagine how those families are suffering. Nifong should be sued for every dime he has, and be disbarred, for ruining the lives of so many people.
Comment by Jane Oldham — 10.17.06 @ 2:55 am
Daily News For Oct 17, 2006
Domestic Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid Has Been Using Campaign Donations Instead Of His Personal Money To Pay Christmas Bonuses…
Trackback by Right Wing News — 10.17.06 @ 3:17 am
OK, CBS did a good job on the Duke case, but you see how they followed up after that story?
Comment by tawanabrawley — 10.17.06 @ 4:05 am
Over the past six months, 60 Minutes examined nearly the entire case file, more than 2,000 documents, including police reports, witness statements and medical records.
Pingback by rightlinx.com — 10.17.06 @ 4:44 am
What’s amazing to me is that Nifong claims he didn’t watch the 60 Minutes episode so he can’t comment. Horse doo! He’s the prosecuting attorney… Of course he watched it!!!
Comment by Tate — 10.17.06 @ 6:48 am
e_alex
And where has the liberal media been on Tulia? Dont see it anywhere on CNN or MSNBC (olbermann where r u) or CBS News or ABC News, all fairly liberal media outlets?
Whoever said that the liberal media was fair to blacks? This is the same media that will only give national attention to a missing female if they are pretty and white.
And lets ask ourselves this now after yesterdays show? If the 3 accused were black and the accuser was white, what level of outrage could we expect from the Jacksons and Sharptons of the world, based on those flimsy facts?
Probably the same outrage that is currently coming from conservative bloggers and the far Right in general. Of course, if the three accused were black and the accuser was white, conservative bloggers would either show no outrage, or would come to the defense of the accuser.
Do you think a black DA would pander to the white community to get those boys?
A black DA would likewise probably not have pandered to the black community. The DA in Tulia sure pandered to the white community there.
Comment by Shade — 10.17.06 @ 9:18 am
My younger sister attends NC State and I am helping her pay her way through school as any brother would. She possesses more dignity and self worth not to degrade herself like a common whore in the manner as these Jezebels have accomplished. What example is she setting for herself let alone the bastard son sired out-of-wedlock? Those who blindly come to the defense of an individual that has purposely ruined the lives of three innocent souls without remorse, are themselves guilty of victimizing that silent percentage of women and men who have been raped. I take this issue very seriously and from the start I questioned the story, why didn’t the DA? Because he saw advantages and opportunity for higher office in whipping up minority (Black) Durham majority to reelect him to office! As a junior NCO in the Navy in the early 90’s, I was accused of rape and without proper evidence preservation from a Tijuana abortion doctor and various e-mails I would be sending this message from jail. It was a white woman, who had accused me, a black man of rape! On the heels of Tail hook and other assorted scandals, Congressman Patricia Schroeder (D-CO), and Senator Diane Feinstein (D-CA) wanted to make an example out of me; it cost over 100K dollars to defend myself under the UCMJ and California criminal code. I’m still paying off that debt, and the false accuser…she was dismissed from active duty dishonorably and I finished my 17 year career with honors and distinction in 2005. What might have been if only her word was taken?
Comment by S.M. Beavers — 10.17.06 @ 9:39 am
Shade wrote: “Of course, if the three accused were black and the accuser was white, conservative bloggers would either show no outrage, or would come to the defense of the accuser.”
What a bigoted and ignorant thing to say!
Go Google “Cory Maye”: dozens if not hundreds of conservatives and libertarians have been standing up on his behalf.
Comment by David Ross — 10.17.06 @ 9:58 am
More fraud and deceit i mean when these false charges are made it will end up causing more problems for those who have really been raped and prove why you can never ever trust hardly anything you read in the left-wing news papers and hear from the talking heads
Comment by BIRDZILLA — 10.17.06 @ 9:58 am
Duke Rape Case: Skanks, Greed, and Shattered Lives
And ruin three lives.
Trackback by The Absurd Report — 10.17.06 @ 10:02 am
Please don’t worry about the Dukies. As long as Duke is the fifth ranked university in the nation (US NEWS), I think they will attract some good folks and a new president with no problem.
Number one son comes home from campus tommorrow for a function and the word on campus is that 60 minutes is going to do a follow up segment. 92% of the students surveyed by the student paper support the boys, the other 8% are obviously majoring in femmist studies, etc.
Tatercon, I think 21st place (UNC-CH)is 4 times lower than Duke, is that right? ha ha! Don’t you say a word about State’s 80 something place!
Comment by kempermanx — 10.17.06 @ 10:03 am
S.M. Beavers. I am very sorry for what you have gone through. Was there any media attention surrounding your case? It is unfortunate that these things happen to good people, but your case is seemingly not uncommon and brought to my mind the case below:
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/sayitloud/rape72706
Looking at Rape Through Race-Colored Glasses
Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2006
By: Gregory Kane, BlackAmericaWeb.com
Did I call this one, or did I call this one?
Several BlackAmericaWeb.com columns ago, I predicted that, sooner rather than later, a man either not white or not rich or not white AND not rich would be falsely accused of rape. I further predicted that the gaggle of conservative pundits and commentators — in print and broadcast media — who have defended the three Duke lacrosse players accused of raping a black stripper would not say one word in that man’s defense.
Lamar Owens was acquitted of rape charges last week. You didn’t hear about it? Didn’t I tell you that?
You sure as heck didn’t hear about it from the likes of Thomas Sowell, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson. All these guys have wailed loud and long about how the Duke lacrosse players charged in the alleged rape of a black stripper got a raw deal. All three of the lacrosse players charged are white. At least one of them comes from a family with, as the saying goes, deep pockets.
Owens is black. He’s a senior at the U.S. Naval Academy who was the quarterback of Navy’s winning football team last year. This spring, one of his female classmates at the Naval Academy accused Owens of raping her while she was passed out drunk. At no time during his trial did you hear a peep from the likes of Sowell, Limbaugh, Hannity or Carlson.
You should have. There are similarities between what happened at Duke and what happened on the campus of the Naval Academy, as well as some glaring differences.
In both cases, there was booze, young men and young women of college age. I’ve said it more than once. I’ll say it again: the combination of these three things has led to more than one charge of either an actual rape or a false accusation of rape.
In both cases, celebrated athletes were involved. It is here that the similarities end.
Duke’s lacrosse team had a history of bad conduct that preceded them. They continued that trend the night of the party when the alleged rape occurred. There was underage drinking and shouts from the players for one or both of the strippers to perform a sex act with a broom handle or stick. In short, it was the kind of conduct that conservative pundits condemn all too quickly when black rappers do it.
Owens’ behavior record was virtually untarnished before the rape charge.
In the Duke case, the accuser is black.
\In Owens’ case, the accuser is white.
Not only white, but a “blonde, athletic, California type†a reporter who attended Owens’ trial told me. It seems Owens may have had a touch of white fever, but I’ll leave that alone.
What’s of interest here is how the alleged rapes of two women of two different races elicit two completely different reactions.
With those pundits on the right side of the political spectrum, the alleged rape of the black woman spurs doubts about her credibility and attacks on her character. The same thing happened to Owens’ accuser, but on a smaller scale. The only negative things I heard about the female midshipwoman came on a local black talk radio show in Baltimore.
Had those stalwart defenders of the Duke lacrosse players wanted to be consistent, or even give themselves a smidgen of credibility, they would have written or talked about the credibility of Owens’ accuser the same way they talked about the black stripper. Believe me, they would have had a ton of ammunition.
Like the stripper, it was established that Owens’ accuser was drunk. She sloshed down nine drinks in a two-hour period the night of the alleged “rape.†Male midshipmen who testified in Owens’ defense said the woman became “flirtatious†and “socially aggressive†when she was drunk.
One Naval Academy graduate even testified that Owens’ accuser, while drunk, offered to give him a lap dance and then cursed him out when he declined.
Lawyers for Owens didn’t just damage this woman’s credibility when she took the stand to testify. They eviscerated her. They picked her clean. By the time they were done the judge was criticizing the prosecution for putting on such a poor witness.
There are credibility issues with the accuser of those three Duke lacrosse players. She may be in for a similar rough ride when, and if, that case ever comes to trial.
Whatever the outcome, women must feel uneasy about both cases. If the color of a woman’s skin — not her credibility or her character — determines how others react to an allegation that she was raped, members of the fairer sex are in for some tough days ahead.
Comment by Shade — 10.17.06 @ 10:11 am
kempermanx and TaterCon, it may be hard for you to take but the joke is to blow off my post as ridiculous on its face. It is anything but that.
Duke University, in the North Carolina context, is all about race and class and privilege. Duke has completely eclipsed UNC academically and a strong argument can be made they’ve done the same on the basketball court (that’s no small issue in North Carolina).
If Nifong is such a “loser,” how in the world did he get appointed district attorney? We all know how — politics! How much you want to bet many of those on his side of that political battle in his county (inside or outsideof the district attorney’s office) were also UNC grads, or UNC fans? I know black North Carolinians with absolutely no connection to UNC who still love the Tar Heels and hate Duke, and I don’t use “hate” lightly. Presumed class and privilege factors are clearly at work here.
If you flip the script, can you really imagine three UNC lacrosse players — under the exact fact scenario developed in this case — still, STILL, facing prosecution on a case such as this? The local newspapers withholding information damaging to the alleged victim? I’m pretty confident that there is no way in hell this would have been allowed to go on in the same way had the case been centered on University of North Carolina lacrosse players. Young men at UNC, mind you, who are probably more privileged than the normal athlete at UNC. This thing isn’t simply about race, class and privilege. It’s about race, class, and privilege as exemplified by the local and national STEREOTYPE of Duke University.
And yeah, it’s a joke alright. Just not the limited one you apparently suppose.
Comment by RattlerGator — 10.17.06 @ 10:15 am
More video from CBS interviews with the players–outtakes that were not shown on the 60 Minutes show, at :
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml
Comment by Seahawk — 10.17.06 @ 10:23 am
David Ross wrote: What a bigoted and ignorant thing to say!
What a hypocrite you are. The blog constantly speculates on how this and that would be treated differently and negatively if a the person was white, yet you respond rudely only when the reverse is speculated. Take a look in the mirror buddy.
And the preponderance of blogs covering Corey Maye appear liberal and non-conservative. Sorry, the coverage doesn’t come close to the Duke coverage. I had not even heard of the Corey Maye situation. Couldn’t even find him on a search at Free Republic. Thanks for another example of what I am talking about.
Comment by Shade — 10.17.06 @ 10:29 am
Amidst all the negativity permeating this case, I’d like to point out 2 adults that stood up and showed the courage to speak the truth as soon as facts emerged showing this to be a sham of a case: Professor James Coleman and Duke Women’s Lacrosse Coach Kirsten Kimel. Now, one would think it should be easy to stand up and speak the truth, or at least demand due process for students (in a loud clear voice, not the wimpy afterthought style of President Brodhead). But apparently, it’s scary to do so in the face of a firestorm of political correctness.
Kudos to Coleman and Kimel for having the smarts to recognize and the courage to do the right thing in difficult times. The rest of the adults in the Duke administration, the DA’s office, the Durham PD, and Durham city government should be ashamed of themselves.
Would it be racist of me (a white guy) to refer to Brodhead as a “little **** white boy”?
Comment by jc — 10.17.06 @ 10:31 am
Duke’s lacrosse team had a history of bad conduct that preceded them.
Well, they’re at least better than the Durham city council, which has a number of members with felony records.
Comment by Seahawk — 10.17.06 @ 10:56 am
Shade..do you really think that just because we are White, that we condone everything White people do? Do you really think that race is almost always a factor when someone is brutally raped? Have you not seen the tears of people…just plain people…who cry when they see children starving and women raped in Darfur?
This Duke case is a case that captured media attention largely because Nifong made it so. Of course we do not see everything that happens in this country and speak out…we only see what the media shows us but that doesn’t mean we aren’t human, that we don’t relate to our own children and spouses; that we aren’t outraged when people of any color are brutally attacked. Look at the Amish children that were murdered by the White guy. Our hearts break. We look at people like Fred Phelps and his family who are White who wanted to protest the funerals with hate, these poor little girls and their families…we just can’t even believe that people like Phelps could be so mean.
Injustice is injustice. We see it all around us. We are just ordinary people. We can’t make the world perfect. We can’t right all wrongs. But,, that doesn’t mean we’re all racist or heartless.
Open your heart and eyes a bit please.
Comment by dianne — 10.17.06 @ 12:11 pm
“Like the stripper, it was established that Owens’ accuser was drunk. She sloshed down nine drinks in a two-hour period the night of the alleged “rape.â€
Gee, having sex with woman who had nine drinks in two-hours, and one is surprised that that one is accused of date rape? Many or may not be guilty and on one may ever know what happened with drunk participants, but near pass-out drunken sex is playing with fire and don’t ask me to feel sorry.
Comment by UNK — 10.17.06 @ 1:26 pm
Diane, well said!!!
Comment by Andy — 10.17.06 @ 1:27 pm
When Bill Clinton punched Juanita Broderick in the Kisser, and then raped her (but, in a good way, with his wonderful old Southern charm) - he told her to “put some ice on that.” That seemed good enough for Mrs. Broderick & her husband AND the vast majority of the Media. What’s the problem with this person? Doesn’t she have ice?
Actually, these young athletes may in fact be acting somewhat like the former Commander In Chief, and a “Great man” according to about 40% of the Country & 90% of the Media. I thought Clinton had brought us all beyond that silly “Rape” thing.
Comment by j. wolfe — 10.17.06 @ 1:29 pm
Dianne, could you specifically show where any part of your speech had anything to do with anything I said?
Comment by Shade — 10.17.06 @ 1:40 pm
Reply to #72: RatGat, I don’t follow your logic at all. I stand by my earlier comment — I see nothing whatsoever in Nifong’s doings, no matter how unjust they may be, that leads me to believe that a Duke hatred, arising out of the Carolina-Dook rivalry, is what motivates him. There’s something else within his soul that makes him who he is and drives him to do what he does. That “something” wasn’t taught at the Carolina that I know.
Comment by TaterCon — 10.17.06 @ 1:52 pm
(repost from a post at Talk Left :
As for his relationship with Duke, Seligmann says: “It wasn’t convenient for them to stand up to the truth. And, you know, I can’t forgive them for that.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/17/national/main2097521.shtm
Comment by Seahawk — 10.17.06 @ 2:22 pm
Ratgator,
You’ve united opposing forces, pretty scarey.
Tatercon and I have been in NC for over 60 years, we’re not telling how much over. We know UNC folks are jerks (well, most of them except my friends, which includes most of my friends), but they are rarely dishonest a**holes (except when talking about BB).
Nifungu was appointed by a Democrat. His appointment is a mystery. One would think he would appoint a Black in Durham County, but after hearing the Black candidate on TV, I see why he wasn’t appointed. He wasn’t the brightest blub in the room, which was very dim to begin with. It could be that Gov. Easley, a down east democrat, has some latent racism in the appointment, but I won’t go into that and I doubt he even thought about it. Someone told him Nifungu was the guy. The Governor rarely talks to traffic ticket working assistant DA’s, AKA Nifungu.
At any rate. Nifugu is on his own. The rest of the Bar and state has written him off. I am thinking his appointment might come up in the next Governor’s race. We’ll see.
You may have a point that the politics of a UNC lacrosse team incident would be different, but I really think it is VERY weak.
No one gets any cover these days, except maybe Black Navy quarterbacks, and Bill Clinton.
Comment by kempermanx — 10.17.06 @ 2:33 pm
Shade It appears you are to ignorant to see any truth.
I don’t allow commenters to call each other names. If you want to participate, do so by attacking the reasoning, not the person. - Admin
Comment by Frank — 10.17.06 @ 3:08 pm
Points well made, Kemp (except for calling out your Tarheel friends as dishonest anal pores whenever we talk b-ball….)
If Precious was accusing Bill Clinton of ripping off her pants to make her his cigar humidor for the evening, there would be nary a word of the incident in Newsweek ….
Comment by TaterCon — 10.17.06 @ 4:09 pm
(Found at the Friends site) :
Donna Shalala on the Florida football fracas :
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/NCAA/2006/10/17/2051478-ap.html
“This university will be firm and punish people who do bad things,” Shalala said. “But we will not throw any student under the bus for instant restoration of our image or our reputation. I will not hang them in a public square. I will not eliminate their participation at the university. I will not take away their scholarships.”
and :
“It’s time for the feeding frenzy to stop,” Shalala said. “These young men made a stupid, terrible, horrible mistake and they are being punished.”
(There’s a university president acting like a university president, with the best interests of the students in mind.)
Comment by Seahawk — 10.17.06 @ 10:10 pm
Will this false acuser now be charged with a crime?
Comment by Wendell — 10.17.06 @ 10:40 pm
“And the preponderance of blogs covering Corey Maye appear liberal and non-conservative.”
Corey Maye is a black man, who shot a southern white cop during a SWAT type middle of the night raid, who claims to have thought to have shot a home intruder in self defense.
The case is supported by the extremely conservative Cato Institute, gun rights crowd (we can fatally shoot anyone who comes in our house), and by blacks who think he was convicted of murder because he was black.
IMHO Cory Maye demonstrates the risks of both middle of the night SWAT raids AND using a gun for self defense. Any mistake can be fatal. Maye could have been sleeping when the police announced they were police and not have heard.
My guess is that there is more to the story. I don’t know what Corey Maye’s legal strategy was, but he may have turned down a plea of manslaughter or something and rolled the dice saying he had no responsibility for any mistake – he could have just been stupid, but if you are stupid don’t use a gun for what you think is self defense.
Also odd is that Maye had the trial location changed from his home black-majority district to a neighboring white-majority district – usually a stupid thing for a black man to do – UNLESS your black neighbors know you are a dumb thug and would be happy to send you to prision to get you out of the hood.
Comment by UNK — 10.17.06 @ 11:28 pm
Shade It appears you are to ignorant to see any truth.
Translation: Shade I don’t like your point of view but I don’t have an intelligent counter point so I will resort to childish name calling.
Comment by Shade — 10.18.06 @ 9:26 am
It seems that some posters are making false analogies without considering what makes the Duke case unique.
The Duke case made news BEFORE (almost) anyone realized that the allegations were actually false. Normally, the first time we learn that someone has been falsely accused (or even accused in the first place) is when they are released from prison or the charges are dropped and the obligatory newspaper article appears.
Here, the Duke case was already in the news. The allegations were spoon fed to a complicit media that adopted the allegations unquestioningly and splashed those allegations as the lead story on nightly TV shows and on the cover of newspapers and magazines. But for the initial media attention, this injustice would be like so many others - ignored and unknown. To me the initial media attention is ironically the very thing that may do the most to now save those accused.
Comment by Common Sense — 10.18.06 @ 1:56 pm
What perplexes me greatly is the number of folks who think that this should only be determined by a jury–even after seeing the many media reports, defense reports, and even the police reports. Not sure how they justify doing this to these young men. I would guess they have never been a parent (or at least a good parent). As the father of three college boys, I try to put myself in the place of the parents and I can only imagine perhaps a portion of the pain these families are going to go through for nearly a year–or more.
My other concern for the three young men and their families: How likely is it that Nifong has some kind of serious unknown (but manufactured) evidence that he will spring only at the trial? He’s ignored most of the prosecution rules of conduct to this point, so why would he worry about NC’s evidence/discovery law? If he drops the case anytime prior to trial he’s in trouble legally. So why not keep exploiting the obviously weak oversight system in place that has not stopped him to this point. And Nifong probably knows of the low likelihood of the judge throwing out this surprise “evidence” if it could significantly support Nifong’s charges. Judges are elected officials also…
Of course in the end, the argument will be: “It would get overturned on appeal.” But by then Nifong escapes any legal or criminal liability (he got the conviction, after all). In the meantime, the lives of these boys are surely ruined–literally destroyed–manipulated by a seriously corrupt individual and government who are willing to sacrifice lives in the name of politics…
It really is hard to believe that anyone with some authority at the state or federal level has not at least taken a hard look at this. Have politics really screwed up the values of elected officials and government agencies that badly?
And where is the outrage from the ACLU? (no need to answer–it is simply a rhetorical question about these ‘fair-weather’ folks).
Comment by disgusted w/ politics — 10.18.06 @ 4:40 pm
Duke’s lacrosse team had a history of bad conduct that preceded them.
I suppose I ought to repeat this (from the report of the commission on the team’s conduct to Brodhead), just for the record :
1.”None of the misconduct involved fighting, sexual assault or harassment, or racist slurs.” There was no evidence “that the cohesiveness of this group is either racist or sexist.”
2.The “current as well as former African-American members of the team have been extremely positive about the support the team provided them.”
3.The lacrosse players’ “behavior on trips is described as exemplary.”
4.They are “respectful of people who serve the team, including bus drivers, airline personnel, trainers, the equipment manager, the team manager, and the groundskeeper.”
5.They are polite, non-disruptive students who have “performed well academically.”
Of course, this leaves us incredulous, because we all know that it is not possible for athletes, especially those engaged in helmeted sports who come from well-to-do backgrounds and went to prep schools, to emerge as anything other than hubris-laden thugs.
I’m sure the commission will be revising its report to be more in line with correct thinking, just as soon as they return from their stint in the re-education camp.
Comment by Seahawk — 10.18.06 @ 6:47 pm
La Shawn, I love reading your work. It’s pithy, relevant, and humorous. I know a brighter day is ahead as long as voices like yours is out there. There is hope for these boys. For now they need prayers and patience.
Comment by Karen Humeniuk — 10.18.06 @ 11:43 pm
read this to me
Bush to Meet With Gen. Abizaid on Iraq Tactics
Comment by lamar hughes — 10.20.06 @ 3:36 pm
And now for the latest example of compassion and fair play from the Duke Administration :
http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/18-780800.html
“Duke athletics director Joe Alleva said that if Finnerty and Seligmann were cleared of the charges, it first would be up to the university to decide their fate.
“If they get reinstated back into school — that would be the first process — then we will reconsider their status with the lacrosse team,” Alleva said. “It all comes back to them being reinstated into school first, and then we would consider it.
“The key word there is ‘consider.’ “
Very politically correct.
Comment by Seahawk — 10.22.06 @ 9:01 am
An update from NC. Friday night I had drinks with some attorney friends, yes I know I was slumming, they had returned from Raleigh and a Bar meeting, the real one not the kind we were in. Nifungu’s name came up and they said he and the 60 minutes story were the talk of the meeting. One of the lawyers is on the disciplinary board, so he was not at liberty to say very much, but after several drinks I gleaned this out of him. Complaints have been made, His quote, “lying to a Grand Jury is serious”. Something will happen within 60 days. Nifungu faces 4 possible outcomes. 1. nothing is done 2. he is censured. 3 his license is suspended for a period of time 4. he is disbarred, that is permanently loses his license. Nifungu has the right to appeal any action by the Bar to the NC Court of Appeals, that’s all.
My friend seemed to imply that he thinks Nifungu is going to trial, even if the photo Id is thrown out and he was worried about our own “OJ” trial where the jury is packed with folks who want to get whitey. He also said Nifungu would have to resign if he loses his license, even for a short period. DA jobs requires you to be a LICENSED attorney in NC.
And Duke lost another game, but UNC is coming up. The Battle of the bums?
Comment by kempermanx — 10.22.06 @ 11:08 am
Reading JC and other blogs this morning and I came on this link for the Duke Innocent wristbands. All funds from there sale goes to the Duke defense fund. I got med they are out of large
heres the link:
http://www.lax.com/shop/item.phtml?page=product_6359_front.phtml
Comment by kempermanx — 10.22.06 @ 11:36 am
And Duke lost another game, but UNC is coming up. The Battle of the bums?
Comment by kempermanx
Yup, bums me out. Last time the ‘Heels played in Durham, Bunting was awarded a contract extension.
I have a sense that won’t be happening again this year…..
Comment by TaterCon — 10.22.06 @ 3:01 pm
OK the Panthers lost, NC can not get any breaks. I talked with some more of my bum lawyer friends, I found out that my friend is one of 32 Bar counselors, on the NC Bar. These guys decide what happens to any Bar complaint. Saw him today he won’t tell me anything, except that something would happen SOON. Others at the club think I am being too easy on Nifungu, he may very well get disbarred. Don’t lie and don’t steal, as one lawyer said, we don’t put up with that.
It is not good to pray for some one’s trouble, but it is ok to pray for justice. God, give Nifungu a good job in the para legal pool in Kansas.
Comment by Kempermanx — 10.22.06 @ 7:07 pm