And if she went and continued sinning, she was going to what? Would you mind enlightening us on the logical follow-thru for consequences of living/dying in sin per Jesus’ teachings?

Why is “diversity” the highest good? And how do you define “diversity?”

As a shareholder or a customer in a business or as a taxpayer, I want the most qualified person — black, white, purple or polka-dotted — in the job. When you start making laws and policies about whom should be hired, that has the potential to put the more qualified person out of the running.

I have been grossly insulted to know that my bosses have gotten extra points on their scorecard because they had me — a woman — on their payroll. They had “diversity” targets, you see. They were supposed to have a certain number of women and minorities above a certain level. How demeaning to even think that I had the job not because I was really good (which I am!) but because I don’t have certain genitalia.

It is insulting to anyone to assume they aren’t good enough to get somewhere without special help. If employers are stupid enough to hire the less qualified because they don’t like their skin color, religion, sex, ethnic background, or whatever, they will suffer the consequences by competing with businesses that are smart enough to hire good people irrespective of appearance.

[On a related note, if I were in charge of a company, I would fire all the men and hire just women, because WE ALL KNOW THAT WOMEN MAKE JUST 76 CENTS FOR EVERY DOLLAR A MAN MAKES! The smart CEO would cut his labor costs dramatically by hiring only women.]

As a born again christian, I puzzled by what the crusade against gays the church is having.
I think you are puzzled because you are like many who embrace “buffet table Christianity”, where they pick and choose as they like, which tenets of the faith or warnings of the scriptures apply. Homosexual behavior is a sin. What part of that don’t you understand? Is sin optional under your brand of “convenience store Christianity?”

We are all sinners, a white lie you tell to your friend is as grave as two men lying with each other. It’s sin.
Of course sin is sin, but there are gradations of sin as the scripture makes plain. See the Laws of Moses for example. The man whose negligence caused his neighbor’s ox to be injured paid restitution in kind or cash. He was not sentenced to death like the murderer. Same principle applies in Christianity. At the Last Day, at the Final Judgement, each of the unrepentant or unsaved are judged according to their deeds. The mass murderer will certainly receive a harsher judgement than the shoplifter. This should be pretty obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Christianity.

It’s like parenting, the more you say no to your kids, the more they want to rebel. The more obsession evangelicals will have in bringing down the gay movement, the more it’s gonna rise.
Using this reasoning, then none of the moral teachings of the scripture apply or need to be stood up for, since people are gonna sin anyway. It is really ludricrous. Do courts and police wave away enforcement of criminal law because some people are gonna break the law anyway?

God doesn’t need our help to fight his battles. Christians become easy prey to Satan’s tricks. The minute something happens in our society that goes against the bible, you see millions of Christians with cardboards protesting on TV like it’s the end of the world.
Actually not quite. How many of these millions of Christians have shown up on TV to protest shoplifting (which is against the Bible) for example?

What about love? I’m always wondering if this Christian movement agains the gay movement is motivated by the bible or people’s own personal prejudice against the behavior.
Actually it is motivated by the clear injunction in both the Old and New Testaments against homosexuality, hard as this is for “convenience store Christianity” to swallow.

Do we want homosexuals to change or do we want to constantly remind them of their sins to feel better of ourselves. It’s like the story of Jonah in the bible who didn’t want to save the people from Ninives.
Actually people have been known to change by constantly being reminded of moral standards. Legal systems are full of “reminders” of various standards of behavior to follow. In personal life, children for example have been known to abstain from theft, murder, rudeness, arson and other things because their parents took the time to deliver “boring” or “useless” or untrendy “reminders.” This is Life 101. As for Jonah, his problem is that he DID NOT want to remind the people of Nineveh about their sins. The example of Jonah actually contradicts the point you are trying to make.

If Christians are so worked up about gays, then what about alcoholics, drug addicts, prostitution, dirty corporate dealings ect… I mean these themes don’t get the same “heat” that Christian generate when they talk about..
Actually many of the themes you mention get a lot more “heat” in the scriptures than homosexuality. References to drunkeness and prostitution for example far outnumber those that deal with homosexuality, so your notion of “heat” doesn’t stand up. In real life the same pattern applies, Every Sunday these supposedly “cold” themese you mention get a lot more attention than homosexuality. I think your problem is that you want either want Christians to turn a blind eye to homosexual sin, or you want to give homosexuals special treatment that no other sinner gets.

People who cheat on their wives or frequent prostitutes do not get any special favors under Christianity. There are no calls for “tolerance” of that sort of behavior. Why is it that homosexuals and their sympathizers want special treatment, and special dispensation to continue with their sin, while others are called on the carpet? What makes gays so special that they are exempt from the same moral standards as everyone else under Christianity?”

Gary further sez:
Again, I 100% doesn’t agree with homosexuality, but I think Christians are going about this the wrong way, our goal is to save souls in a compassionate way.
Actually when Jesus confronted sin, he did not pull punches, look the other way or talk about “tolerance” with a nod and a wink. When the woman in John 8 was taken in adultery, he told her to “go and sin no more.” He did not say “carry on with business as usual.” When he made a scourge of whips and drove the shysters and moneychangers from the holy temple, he was not talking “tolerance” and “diversity”. He was talking ahderence to moral standards. Such facts are too often forgotten by those who mumble the mantras of “compassion.” What they are realy saying is Let’s give homosexuals special exemption from moral standards that no one else in Christianity is getting, and let’s cover this sleight of hand by talking ’bout ‘compassion’”

Homosexuality is no different than lying, cheating, gossiping, or even looking at someone. How many times, have we looked at anyone on TV, public place and say “he or she is cute”, that’s adultery.
Actually it is. The AIDS epidemic that killed so many young people in their prime was not caused by “gossip” or looking at someone “cute”. Your tactic here is to try to water down moral standards against homosexuality by making it seem trivial, but scripture does not treat it as trivial. The second part of your tactic is to again plead for special treatment for homosexuals.
Scripture does not treat things like adultery or prostitution as trivial. Why should homosexuals get special dispensation to “do their own thing” while the rest of us have to repent and correct our behavior? What makes homosexuals so special that they are exempt from moral standards? Why the special treatment?

When a gay person watches television and sees a televangelist go on and on and on about homosexuals burning in hell for their sins, do you think that that person would ever want to get saved, become Christian, or re-think his lifestyle?
Actually yes. That is the beauty of the Gospel. People realize God is righteous and that he thus hates sin. They realize that God has in Christ, made a way to escape the burden and effect of that sin. And they take advantage of God’s offer- set forth in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, and the gift of the Holy Spirit. Tens of millions of people have rethought their lifestyle because of the Gospel. Again, what makes homosexuals so special that they are exempt from this process? Again, why do homosexuals get special dispensation to “do their own thing” when the rest of us don’t?

When I read Jesus’s journey on earth, it was all about compassion, compassion for the poor, the sick, the prostitutes, the thieves, the crooked tax collectors. That’s the problem I have with conservatives and evangelicals these days NOT ALL, I just don’t seen any compassion.
Actually you neglect to mention the first thing that comes before compassion- righteousness. If a burgular is beating a victim to death, we can all have “compassion” for said thug because of his difficult upbringing, but the first order of bidniss is righteousness- stopping said hooligan from beating his victim to death. The foundation of compassion is righteousness- doing right. It is only by doing right that true compassion manifests itself. Many do not like to hear this “untrendy” message, but it is the primary element of Christianity in action.

Like Jesus told the pharisees regarding Mary Magadalene, I’m paraphrasing “whoever is without sin be the first one to cast the first stone”
And like many you forget to mention the last words of Jesus to that woman- “go and sin no more.” She was to STOP what she was doing- clean up her act. She was not to continue business as usual with her adultery. The hypocritical Pharisees were called to account, but so was the woman. Many conveniently forget to quote the WHOLE example of that woman, as set forth in John 8. It is a convenient memory lapse, but it cannot change the foundation of righteousness.

The word to homosexuals from this example, is that you can make a change for the better. You can do better. You can repent and change. It may not happen overnight, but the opportunity is there- the door is open. We ALL have to go through it. Take the opportunity like the rest of us, without asking for special dispensations or favors to continue business as usual.

Not suggesting that people make an effort to inflict pain on gays or grouches by not sitting next to them.

But if they are openly gay or grouches by choice, one should not feel required to sit next to them if you don’t want to.

How do you suggest we punish gays, UNK?

Sounds analogous to the gay argument.

If your grouchy condition is genetic and you can’t help it, it may be unfair for people to discriminate against you.

But I gather that you are grouchy by choice, and you should calculate that people would treat you meanly when deciding to be a grouch and take your punishment.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20030716.html
http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=58405&provider=top

I remember this happening at my highschool football game. My mostly white catholic school was playing the ‘urban’ school and fans of my school had no problem with yelling nigger and making monkey noises to the glee of the other fans.

And women are more likely to sit with women and vice-versa. We tend to associate with those with whom we feel more comfortable. A very long time ago when we were in the military and traveling in Europe, we were always happy to see a black person – we knew he probably spoke English. Today it’s different(in Europe, that is) of course, but at that time, black meant someone in our comfort zone.

But it may have something to do with culture – blacks are more likely to sit with fellow blacks just as white are more likely to sit with fellow whites.

Nothing wrong with pride in your culture, as long as it does not exclude or demean others but talk and act like you are not in mainstream America, and don’t be surprised if a few people hang out and hire people more in the mainstream.

Courage is being afraid, but acknowledging that fear, fighting it back, and doing what you’re afraid of anyway.

Similarly, being truly “colorblind” doesn’t mean ignoring differences. It means treating people like people even though the little monkey in the back of your head is shrieking “NOT MY TRIBE NOT MY TRIBE KILL KILL KILL”.

–GF